Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

Printable View

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

01-28-2008, 12:50 PM
KTE

Bro: Thank you but it's nothing past a few adventures. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by justapost

Yep i'm sure but that formular is only valid for the next lower cpu vid if you found one you can run stable with a really low nb vid. Can be a temperature issue. The power consumptions is the same with my power meter between those two alternatives.
Formular should be u=u1*11/13+u2*2/13, had 100A in mind.

I still don't understand why you have one formula for two separate voltages? :confused:
You're postulating that there is a fixed relationship between the two independent voltages but my experimentation doesn't show this. :shrug:

And BTW, can you define the notations you've used in your formula please. :D

Quote:

Does your mobo also use the L6740L chip?

For what? The CPU VRM? :confused:

I doubt it uses that chip but my system is inside a case and it's jam packed in there, especially the CPU PWM area so can't check until I can take it out of the case which I won't be doing yet.
01-28-2008, 01:02 PM
justapost

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

I still don't understand why you have one formula for two separate voltages? :confused:
You're postulating that there is a fixed relationship between the two independent voltages but my experimentation doesn't show this. :shrug:

I was looking for a formular to calculate an single voltage for the cpu, whom I can use in a voltage vs. frequencies/temps/power consumption diagrams.

At 2200MHz I found two settings whom are both stable in the 30 minute prime95 criteria.

1,2V/1,0250V
1,185V/1,075V

Notation:
u= Average Voltage
u1 = cpu voltage
u2 = nb voltage

1,2V*4/5+1,025V*1/5 = 1,165V
1,185V*4/5+1,075V*1/5 = 1,163V

So this formular might help estimate the nb voltage needed for a different cpu-v. Just want so save time, as this stability testing takes alot more time with two voltage settings.
In words if you have a stable setting with a very low nb voltage, you will have an other stable setting at a 0,0125V lower cpu voltage with an 0,05V higher nb voltage.

EDIT: After a few overnight prime95 runs, the optimal settings seems to be the max of both possibilities. Now that does save time because you only have to find the two prime95-30minute-stable setting and get a good estimation of an 24hrs stable setting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

For what? The CPU VRM? :confused:

I doubt it uses that chip but my system is inside a case and it's jam packed in there, especially the CPU PWM area so can't check until I can take it out of the case which I won't be doing yet.

Nevermind,t hought you know what chips is on your mobo because you already did some nb pencil modding. ;)
01-28-2008, 01:51 PM
KTE

Quote:

Originally Posted by justapost

I was looking for a formular to calculate an single voltage for the cpu, whom I can use in a voltage vs. frequencies/temps/power consumption diagrams.

At 2200MHz I found two settings whom are both stable in the 30 minute prime95 criteria.

Here's the first inaccuracy which is going to make everything else flawed. That's not even close to stable Achim and I know this because I can get very low VIDs and high MHz 30min passed. If you test proper stability, you'll get accurate figures to put into your formula. Stable means hiccup free, smooth at all times no matter what you do. Pick two separate low settings, as you chose below and stability test them properly, I mean game and run software etc, then try this formula below again. ;)

Wait a minute.. you didn't have any options for CPU/IMC voltages last I recall? The only thing you were manipulating was CPU and NB VID, right? :confused:

What are these values below exactly and did you measure VCore voltage with DMM to match these figures?

Quote:

1,2V/1,0250V
1,185V/1,075V

Notation:
u= Average Voltage
u1 = cpu voltage
u2 = nb voltage

1,2V*4/5+1,025V*1/5 = 1,165V
1,185V*4/5+1,075V*1/5 = 1,163V

Your board doesn't give IMC voltage, so that can't be correct, unless you're talking about Voltage Identities?

Here's my lowest stability:
CPU - 2300MHz 1.175VID 1.160V Idle/1.152V Load
IMC - 1800MHz 1.050VID

Now tell me, IDK the IMC voltage, I only can know my VID which is not the voltage... so which two values are you going to use for CPU/NB in your equation?

Quote:

So this formular might help estimate the nb voltage needed for a different cpu-v. Just want so save time, as this stability testing takes alot more time with two voltage settings.
In words if you have a stable setting with a very low nb voltage, you will have an other stable setting at a 0,0125V lower cpu voltage with an 0,05V higher nb voltage.

I understand. However, it can't predict stability outside the systems potential is where I'm saying the flaw lies. It maybe is possible to be used once you know the lowest limit of CPU and NB, which you have to stability test to find out anyway, and then to find a combined best value.. but still, that depends on your answers to my qs above. :)

Quote:

Nevermind,t hought you know what chips is on your mobo because you already did some nb pencil modding. ;)

Didn't need to know this, since I did VCore pencil modding with input resistors. ;)
01-28-2008, 02:34 PM
justapost

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Here's the first inaccuracy which is going to make everything else flawed. That's not even close to stable Achim and I know this because I can get very low VIDs and high MHz 30min passed. If you test proper stability, you'll get accurate figures to put into your formula. Stable means hiccup free, smooth at all times no matter what you do. Pick two separate low settings, as you chose below and stability test them properly, I mean game and run software etc, then try this formula below again. ;)
Wait a minute.. you didn't have any options for CPU/IMC voltages last I recall? The only thing you were manipulating was CPU and NB VID, right? :confused:

What are these values below exactly and did you measure VCore voltage with DMM to match these figures?

Your board doesn't give IMC voltage, so that can't be correct, unless you're talking about Voltage Identities?

Here's my lowest stability:
CPU - 2300MHz 1.175VID 1.160V Idle/1.152V Load
IMC - 1800MHz 1.050VID

Now tell me, IDK the IMC voltage, I only can know my VID which is not the voltage... so which two values are you going to use for CPU/NB in your equation?

I have two settings in the bios labeld prozessor and north bridge voltage. Those settings match exactly with the CPU/NB VID settings (AMD PM, PCI registers, AOD).
ATM I test 212x11 and my Vcore readings are 1.264V load/1.248V idle. They are closer to the bios settings than on your mobo, noted em a few times but they are always in the rounding rounding area (+-0.016V I guess) so I always talk about what I set in the bios.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

I understand. However, it can't predict stability outside the systems potential is where I'm saying the flaw lies. It maybe is possible to be used once you know the lowest limit of CPU and NB, which you have to stability test to find out anyway, and then to find a combined best value.. but still, that depends on your answers to my qs above. :)

It should take around 4 hourst to find those two prim95-30min stable points. Using the max values for cpu and nb as a starting point for a long term stability test should save alot of time. It's a pitas to find em step by step.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Didn't need to know this, since I did VCore pencil modding with input resistors. ;)

U know u know something I don't know. :)
http://www.abload.de/img/cpuvrf.jpg
But I have pictures. Much less units in this area.
Can you see on this image which resistors are responsible for cpu and nb voltage?
EDIT: I measured the reachable resistances on the top side of the mobo and found no 1,25V amplitude there so I guess it's on the bottom side.

Is it save to put my osciloscopes probe on those resistances on a running system (proper mounted cooler assumed).

BTW: The specs of this L6740L chip are very interesting read, but I guess you know most of this stuff. Since how long do you overclock so far?
01-28-2008, 04:17 PM
KTE

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by justapost

I have two settings in the bios labeld prozessor and north bridge voltage. Those settings match exactly with the CPU/NB VID settings (AMD PM, PCI registers, AOD).

MSR only stores VIDs, so yep, you are talking about CPU/NB VIDs. Now those are different to voltages, but they affect voltage. Each VID decides the lowest and highest voltage available and if you don't manipulate the voltage, it will be set to default as the lowest voltage available for that particular VID. I'll show you a quick VID->default voltage mapping here, it's still incomplete though.

Attachment 71480

If you place 00 and 10 for both CPU and NB, and say both give you the same MHz, then you won't be able to do better with any voltage option, because they do exactly that, control the voltages being fed. These are set with the Phenom CPUs not the BIOS, thus 000 = 1.536V and 010 = 1.416V. ;)

Quote:

ATM I test 212x11 and my Vcore readings are 1.264V load/1.248V idle. They are closer to the bios settings than on your mobo, noted em a few times but they are always in the rounding rounding area (+-0.016V I guess) so I always talk about what I set in the bios.

Ah OK. Well make sure you let others know too because it's confusing. :p: Since VID is not the voltage. You're probably around CPU VID 22 there I'm guessing.

Quote:

It should take around 4 hourst to find those two prim95-30min stable points. Using the max values for cpu and nb as a starting point for a long term stability test should save alot of time. It's a pitas to find em step by step.

Yes it is. :D

Quote:

U know u know something I don't know. :)
http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=cpuvrf.jpg
But I have pictures. Much less units in this area.
Can you see on this image which resistors are responsible for cpu and nb voltage?

This is the back of the board, CPU VRM area? I can't even tell where on the board that is TBH. :p:
There is no way to tell like this if I haven't seen and played with the board/specs to be frank. You have to change the VID, know the voltages it sets and then measure around the MOSFETs/inductors to find the right legs to measure which correspond to the voltage you're after. Then you have to start adding/decreasing resistance (as needed) to the resistors controlling the voltage to those components, and see how it affects the component voltage overall. :)

Quote:

BTW: The specs of this L6740L chip are very interesting read, but I guess you know most of this stuff. Since how long do you overclock so far?

I haven't read its specifications so I don't really know, will do now but it should be 1 phase for CPU NB power control and 4 phase for CPU cores for Phenom MBs. ;)

If you're asking how long I've been in computer oc, then not too long, probably since Pentium 66MHz, that's the first one me and a friend tried to overclock and destroyed it somewhere around '94-'95. :lol:
Had to work 9 months to cover the expenses, they were that bloody expensive and in rare supply where I was living!
01-28-2008, 05:09 PM
justapost

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

MSR only stores VIDs, so yep, you are talking about CPU/NB VIDs. Now those are different to voltages, but they affect voltage. Each VID decides the lowest and highest voltage available and if you don't manipulate the voltage, it will be set to default as the lowest voltage available for that particular VID. I'll show you a quick VID->default voltage mapping here, it's still incomplete though.

Attachment 71480

Thx, I'l see what values I noted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

If you place 00 and 10 for both CPU and NB, and say both give you the same MHz, then you won't be able to do better with any voltage option, because they do exactly that, control the voltages being fed. These are set with the Phenom CPUs not the BIOS, thus 000 = 1.536V and 010 = 1.416V. ;)

You said the VID is limited depending on your vcore setting. Have you checked MSR register C001_0071? Bits 48:42 are MinVid and bits 41:35 are MaxVid. I assume both are zero on the unlocked be. SviVID codes are listed on page 29 in the AMD BKDG and are identical to your table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Ah OK. Well make sure you let others know too because it's confusing. :p: Since VID is not the voltage. You're probably around CPU VID 22 there I'm guessing.

Sry, thought I mentioned it in the past. Gonna check the msd registers tomorrow, but amd pm seems to show cpu and nb vid's translated via the table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

This is the back of the board, CPU VRM area? I can't even tell where on the board that is TBH. :p:
There is no way to tell like this if I haven't seen and played with the board/specs to be frank. You have to change the VID, know the voltages it sets and then measure around the MOSFETs/inductors to find the right legs to measure which correspond to the voltage you're after. Then you have to start adding/decreasing resistance (as needed) to the resistors controlling the voltage to those components, and see how it affects the component voltage overall. :)

Guess it's easier to find the resistances connected to the FB and FB_NB pin of that pwm chip. NP

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

I haven't read its specifications so I don't really know, will do now but it should be 1 phase for CPU NB power control and 4 phase for CPU cores for Phenom MBs. ;)

:yepp:

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

If you're asking how long I've been in computer oc, then not too long, probably since Pentium 66MHz, that's the first one me and a friend tried to overclock and destroyed it somewhere around '94-'95. :lol:
Had to work 9 months to cover the expenses, they were that bloody expensive and in rare supply where I was living!

He He my Pentium 60MHz survived, but I payed round 4000€ for that system so it was to valuable even thinking about overclocking it. If overclocking by accident counts I might have started earlier however. :)
01-28-2008, 05:18 PM
Daveburt714

Thanks for that chart KTE... Thats really helpful!!

Last time I tried I couldn't set NB Vid in bios though... :(

I wish I could set NB Fid to 8.5x, but dividers (DID) don't
seem to work either... I tried NB FID=13 / NB DID =2, which resulted
in a no post situation.. Do you know if 1/2 multis are possible on the NB?

Thanks.. Dave
01-28-2008, 08:12 PM
KTE

3 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by justapost

Thx, I'l see what values I noted.

You said the VID is limited depending on your vcore setting.

Other way round, exactly. :D

If you want access to lower volts, decrease VID.
If you want access to higher volts, increase VID.

I believe the CPU and NB VIDs are mapped to the same range of voltages.

Quote:

Have you checked MSR register C001_0071? Bits 48:42 are MinVid and bits 41:35 are MaxVid. I assume both are zero on the unlocked be.

Hmm..

Attachment 71492

Quote:

SviVID codes are listed on page 29 in the AMD BKDG and are identical to your table.

Yeah, they're the same. We get 000-127 options too.

But they use binary=decimal VID values instead, which is of little use to us.

Attachment 71491

Have you seen this below BTW? This is why we were having boot-up problems with low NB DID then.

Attachment 71493

I wish they had unlocked HT downwards too! From >150 would've been good, especially handy when troubleshooting and limiting memory when testing through FID and DID combinations.

Quote:

Guess it's easier to find the resistances connected to the FB and FB_NB pin of that pwm chip. NP

You sure? ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveburt714

Last time I tried I couldn't set NB Vid in bios though... :(

So you're using one of the new BIOSes I gather?

That's why I reverted to 1.13 BETA. ;)

On this'an I'll test if DID works for NB or CPU.

Quote:

I wish I could set NB Fid to 8.5x, but dividers (DID) don't
seem to work either... I tried NB FID=13 / NB DID =2, which resulted
in a no post situation.. Do you know if 1/2 multis are possible on the NB?

They are supposed to work you know, even 0.25 dividers are supposed to work and they are fairly simple options with PLLs, but for some reason both the CPU DID and NB DID options changed from 1 result in no POST IME. :(
01-28-2008, 09:30 PM
Daveburt714

Thanks KTE, I thought the dividers should work, but I haven't had much luck with them. I'm not done yet though... :D

I tried a few of the other Bios versions but reverted back to 1.13 myself.

Sorry to interupt you guys conversation, it's fun to watch the masters at work!! Even though I don't understand 1/2 of it, I'm learning... :up:
01-28-2008, 11:05 PM
jonspd

its how your system is ran have you ever done any registry edits? I would guess anyways I could be wrong also lol but regedit is the os not the mobo settings.

also KTE I got my tracers in and was just wondering if you have some numbers that might help me out. I dunno whats on them but there the pc6400 version. I didn't have to change anything they took the place of my 2gbhz g-skills for the time being :D

the attach in 905 is kinda helpful tanks :up: :clap:
01-28-2008, 11:25 PM
Daveburt714

I just had the strangest hard crash... I had to reset CMOS, but it still kept my presets in Bios!! :eek:

Pretty sure I violated the "Core COF/NB COF <=2" rule you quoted above though.... Excellent find BTW! :up:

HT Ref 200, CPU Multi 11.5x, NB Multi 5x... Yep, pretty sure thats meets the criteria!!! :D

I hate to sound stupid, I get the general Idea, but what does "COF" stand for?

I wonder if there is a something similar to this with HTT Link speed? Just from playing with it, there always seemed to be some kind of corrilation between NB Multi and HTT Multi... They always seemed to run better at the same or with the HTT 1x lower.
01-29-2008, 09:07 AM
KTE

If you get no POST, hold Insert and keep tapping Delete for a few reboots until you see the red error message and white writing below it, then hit F1 and you should be able to get into the BIOS.

I found something to note here =>

Underclocked my system, 2.3G/1.8G/800M CPU 1.175 VID 1.160V and IMC 1.050VID - all else the same at stock as before.

Power draw:
Idle = 90W AC (right now)
Load = 157W AC

Same as above but with CnQ enabled=>

Power draw:
Idle = 97W AC
Load = 159W AC

:p:

CnQ throws NB VID/voltage higher although it lowers CPU VID/voltage. Thus, manually setting low VID/volts gets me lower power than not. The power today is less because I have no HT/RD790 volts on today than earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveburt714

Thanks KTE, I thought the dividers should work, but I haven't had much luck with them. I'm not done yet though... :D

I tried a few of the other Bios versions but reverted back to 1.13 myself.

Have you tried:

NB FID = 18
NB VID = 25
NB DID = 2 (is there such an option?)

Quote:

Sorry to interupt you guys conversation, it's fun to watch the masters at work!! Even though I don't understand 1/2 of it, I'm learning... :up:

Well I know one thing for sure.. I'm not a master at all, just a normal guy. ;)

COF: Current Operating Frequency

NB speed has to remain minimum 0.5x CPU speed and maximum 32x CPU speed.

Not read the guide enough to see for any more details.

jonspd: Which exact settings are you after? Which BIOS are you on?
01-29-2008, 10:23 AM
jonspd

same 1.13

just wondering if you could post up what dimm setting your using via memset or in the mem configuration of bios. all of the ram settings... and at what speed.

Hopefully good to 450 or 500. give or take.
01-29-2008, 12:44 PM
KTE

4 Attachment(s)

Depends on what HT ref. max you can run stable.

Mine only does max 248HT ref. stable, which gives me 496MHz on RAM. My 9500 did high HT ref. and I managed 535MHz on RAM running 1:2 divider with it.

Settings are not that simple TBH. Your RAM may be worse or better than mine. 80% chance it's worse and maybe 20% or less that it's equal or better. I've not seen RAM that can bench 676 5-5-5-15 PL5 at 2.2V in a while and this one does it with ease. If you can bench 2G IMC with 1000 4-4-4-4 18 1T 2.2V RAM, then yours is like mine. ;)

Tracer 6400 should do 1200 5-5-5-5 2.2V pretty easily.

There are a few points to make:
-The IMC includes a few components, hence IMC speed/voltage affects the SRI, XBAR, L3 and DCT. +Stock IMC speed slows your RAM timings/speeds, so that you can only run lower RAM speeds than your max and higher RAM timings. CR1 and MaxAsyncLatency are particularly difficult to get low with high IMC clocks.
-Benchmarks such as WinRAR depend almost entirely on RAM/FSB speeds.

Right now, I'm running these settings:

Attachment 71529

Bandwidth:
Attachment 71530

WinRAR:
Attachment 71531

Compare Q6600 with higher RAM/CPU:

Attachment 71533
01-29-2008, 02:24 PM
jonspd

And I thank you. Not had much time lately just change out my hot water heater and having to go meet a guy this evening about a job I have almost caught up where I want to be on my folding team so maybe I can have time to play soon.

Bad part is I may be starting my new job soon. Really want to try and hold on clocking till b3 arrives at which time I gonna change her out :D

thanks again for all your help and I will try and keep any result I have posted up.

and thanks to all the others around here...
01-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Mathos

Ok, here's what I got so far. Since I've had the 9600BE I've been able to OC to 2.7Ghz Stable at 1.262 coreVID(thats what it reads out as on CPUz, Coretemp, AOD, Everest) for everything, except for about.....35% of the time after rebooting, when I try and start Coretemp, or Everest to monitor temps it will lock/refuse to load the programs. I could still move the mouse around and manipulate some things, so not a hard lock. That was under Bios 1.2, decided to go to 1.13 to get away from the TLB fix. After going back down to 1.13 this behavior didn't change. So I decided to knock it down to 2.5Ghz at 1.25v coreVID. Rock solid stable while running at 2.5Ghz with that coreVID setting.

Even running at 2.7Ghz the cpu temp never went above 40c full load on all four cores according to Everest or CPUID HWMonitor.

What speed do you think I should be able to hit under a good bios? Ideally, I want to run at either 2.6Ghz or 2.8Ghz, with the NB running at or close to the same speed as the cores. Right now I'm running at 2.0 on the NB, but other than windows being silly I've had it running at 2.4 through the bios without much issue.

I've been thinking about upping the NB again to 2.4, but then I'd have to reinstall windows, since from my findings, thats the AMD equivalent of upping the FSB on an Intel processor by a large jump, when it comes to windows install bugging out.

I haven't tried messing with the HT Ref clock at all yet.

Note that these speeds are being achieved with Cool and Quiet enabled in bios. My specs are in my sig. I want to get as much performance out of this as I can.

And does anyone have access to an newer bios's that would be better than 1.13?
01-29-2008, 11:52 PM
KTE

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonspd

And I thank you. Not had much time lately just change out my hot water heater and having to go meet a guy this evening about a job I have almost caught up where I want to be on my folding team so maybe I can have time to play soon.

Bad part is I may be starting my new job soon. Really want to try and hold on clocking till b3 arrives at which time I gonna change her out :D

thanks again for all your help and I will try and keep any result I have posted up.

and thanks to all the others around here...

You're welcome. :)

I had to clear CMOS because I tried NB DID (21/2) giving 2.5G and it hasn't started up since then. It's stuck in a reboot loop since around 10hrs. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathos

Ok, here's what I got so far. Since I've had the 9600BE I've been able to OC to 2.7Ghz Stable at 1.262 coreVID(thats what it reads out as on CPUz, Coretemp, AOD, Everest) for everything, except for about.....35% of the time after rebooting, when I try and start Coretemp, or Everest to monitor temps it will lock/refuse to load the programs. I could still move the mouse around and manipulate some things, so not a hard lock.

Hmm.. this is like mine, but those lockups are not stable settings and typical of instability. I P95'd 26hrs at 1.28V without any error with 2.4G NB/HT but those freezes existed and it's because the chip required more voltage, and static load doesn't make it stable BTW, you have to benchmark it, game it, dynamic load test it and leave it idling-load-idling for 2-3 days or so, including a bootup recycle to check it boots error-free all the time. Then it becomes stable (stability is different to guage with Phenom than other CPUs I've ever tested). To find out, just increase volts to 1.392V idling, and see what you get. If your chip boots and passes static load testing at 2.7G/1.2625VID, it should be well stable at 1.35-1.4V easily and by that I mean no lockups or freezes whatsoever and consistent boots. You know I get <2.812G the same way as what your mentioning, however mine boots fully every time. It will however freeze on opening any monitoring tool: i.e. I/O/PLL calling tool.

Have you tried disabling CnQ? OC should be tested without it.
Have you tried not opening any monitoring tool apart from CPUZ to see if it remains good?

On the MSI 790FX there is a VCore option. What VCore did you set?
VID is only helpful to me if you left VCore at "Auto".

How do you get 2.7G? 200 x14, or? Because your NB may need more volts.

Quote:

That was under Bios 1.2, decided to go to 1.13 to get away from the TLB fix. After going back down to 1.13 this behavior didn't change. So I decided to knock it down to 2.5Ghz at 1.25v coreVID. Rock solid stable while running at 2.5Ghz with that coreVID setting.

Then you need to add more volts for 2.7G stable. ;)

Quote:

What speed do you think I should be able to hit under a good bios?

Your limit seems voltage/cooling/chip rather than BIOS, quite honestly. What specific problems do you have with 1.13 BETA? 113B BIOS is perfect for overclocking IME, I don't think you'll get a better BIOS, all new BIOSes have the oc (AM2+ P-States) removed and it doesn't have any major oc problems at all but for no DID/CPU NB and 2.66 RAM control.

There are two majr problems with your oc:
1. That PSU stands out like a sore thumb. Honestly get rid of it for something good ASAP because that's just going to dsmage each component you have with it and may also blow up along with them. It also cannot provide 700W and the wattage will be dirty and the voltages will be bad causing damaged hardware and bad oc. I would honestly never use or even install that kind of PSU even on a AMD K7 which pulls 100W total for the system, not a chance. Buying such a PSU for such a system is like a Koenigsegg having a '80 250cc diesel quad bike engine installed. :yepp:
2. Your RAM. You have the problematic 2x2GB and worse, they are 800 5-5-5-15. They will limit your option to low HT ref and NB oc'ing in unganged mode.

Get low ambient temps, max fans however many you can attach, keep CPU temps and MOSFET temps low, throw CPU volts to 1.5V, NB/HT 1.30V and see what you can get by just moving the muliplier (200HT ref.). That'll give you a good clue to what your chip can manage. Then drop CPU multiplier, RAM multiplier, HT multiplier and NB multiplier low, give them all sufficient voltage and try max HT ref. and mx HT ref. stable. In ths way try the CPU MHz, HT ref., NB and RAM one by one.

I'm not liable if you damage any component by overclocking. :D

Quote:

Ideally, I want to run at either 2.6Ghz or 2.8Ghz, with the NB running at or close to the same speed as the cores. Right now I'm running at 2.0 on the NB, but other than windows being silly I've had it running at 2.4 through the bios without much issue.

2.5G NB should be a breeze but above it gets difficult. I doubt NB will run plus 2.6G though, just lik HT won't.

Quote:

I've been thinking about upping the NB again to 2.4, but then I'd have to reinstall windows, since from my findings, thats the AMD equivalent of upping the FSB on an Intel processor by a large jump, when it comes to windows install bugging out.

You'll only have to reinstall Windows for any oc, if you have repeated hard crashes which corrupts/deletes the main registry hives. If you go about it the right way with enough voltage, I doubt 2.4G NB will make you lose a Windows install very much. Just place 1.28VID on it and at 200x12 see. :)

Quote:

I haven't tried messing with the HT Ref clock at all yet.

You need to do this as soon as you can ;)

Quote:

And does anyone have access to an newer bios's that would be better than 1.13?

None of them are better in our opinion, they all get worse for oc/perf and include the TLB patch. I was going to try a new one last night but my system hasn't booted since. :shakes:
P0E is pretty good but only runs RAM at 1066 and boots at 1.8V 1066.

I just ran a quick Phenom 9600BE 2678MHz vs C2Q Q6600 2680MHz comparison in a few benchmarks. I've already done 2.64GHz and 2.4G before though but this was more like trying to get the best scores at the same settings and short. Have to say, things aren't too far off for the average user but for specific case scenarios, they are indeed. ;)
01-30-2008, 12:14 AM
Daveburt714

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Have you tried:

NB FID = 18
NB VID = 25
NB DID = 2 (is there such an option?)

My chip is a standard 9600, if I'm figuring that correctly that would result in a NB multi of 11x... AFAIK this chip won't take a NB over 9x, but I'll admit I haven't tried yet.

When I do set NB VID in P-States it will take it, but AOD shows no change (still @ 1.1v). The SS below is with NB VID @ 32 which should be 1.15 if it was working correctly, If I change the NB VDDC in Bios AOD does show the change..

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...0130AOD_25.jpg

Those settings have proven to be ROCK SOLID on my system, but I know the NB will run @ 2200... Unfortunatly, it won't run @ 2250. That's why I was looking for 8.5 or 8.75 multi on the NB. I'll play with it somemore tommorow night but so far I haven't been able to get any combination with a DID to work...

Thanks for the tip on Insert/Delete combination!

And I don't care how modest you are! If such a thing as Phenom Masters exist, You and Just are them........ :yepp: :D
01-30-2008, 12:56 AM
KTE

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveburt714

My chip is a standard 9600, if I'm figuring that correctly that would result in a NB multi of 11x... AFAIK this chip won't take a NB over 9x, but I'll admit I haven't tried yet.

Sorry about that, don't try those values (specifically DID). You'll have to clear CMOS or get no POST. :(

Plus 9x NB and 11.5x CPU on Phenom 9600 doesn't work, you're right.

Quote:

When I do set NB VID in P-States it will take it, but AOD shows no change (still @ 1.1v). The SS below is with NB VID @ 32 which should be 1.15 if it was working correctly, If I change the NB VDDC in Bios AOD does show the change..

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...0130AOD_25.jpg

Nice settings there. For NB VID, you're looking at the wrong tool. :p:

That'll change the RD790 voltage insteead, which is labeled NB and doesn't need to be touched.

Check in AMD Power Monitor: http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...ties/setup.exe

It'll show you the current operating VIDs for CPU and NB, as below:

Attachment 71562

The large bars in the center below core labels show core load and the smaller bars on the left show if CnQ is functioning. The frequencies are always 200 HT ref. x Multiplier, so if it shows 2400MHz, that could be anything above 2.4G but it has to be using the 12x multiplier. ;)

Quote:

Those settings have proven to be ROCK SOLID on my system, but I know the NB will run @ 2200... Unfortunatly, it won't run @ 2250. That's why I was looking for 8.5 or 8.75 multi on the NB. I'll play with it somemore tommorow night but so far I haven't been able to get any combination with a DID to work...

Thanks for the tip on Insert/Delete combination!

And I don't care how modest you are! If such a thing as Phenom Masters exist, You and Just are them........ :yepp: :D

Well, in that case, everyone at XS whose ever opened a thread is a Master... :D
01-30-2008, 08:51 AM
justapost

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Other way round, exactly. :D

If you want access to lower volts, decrease VID.
If you want access to higher volts, increase VID.

I believe the CPU and NB VIDs are mapped to the same range of voltages.

Can be it's a feature of your mobo's bios to prevent harmfull settings.

Hmm..

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Yeah, they're the same. We get 000-127 options too.

But they use binary=decimal VID values instead, which is of little use to us.

Guess they use binary values because it's easier for developers, whom have to work with the registers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Have you seen this below BTW? This is why we were having boot-up problems with low NB DID then.

Yepp, I saw it some time ago as i skimed thru that document looking for those dependencies. That time I thought I'll never be affected by those limits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

I wish they had unlocked HT downwards too! From >150 would've been good, especially handy when troubleshooting and limiting memory when testing through FID and DID combinations.

Yepp wished for lower ref HT also. :yepp:

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

You sure? ;)

I identified the chips and the relevant pins, just gonna find the resistances connected to those pins. The only issue is that area is infinitesimal in size. Can't follow the conducting paths with the eyes and the camera I have is also not high res enough.
Guess I can not measure resistances with the old osciloscope I have.

Do you have in mind which AMD document shows the pin assignment of the phenom cpu's?

BTW: My mobo has unganged settings in the bios (can be unhidden by hitting F4) so I can run everest benches in unanged mode for comparison here, but they will be lower than the ganged mode results. Most of your expamples in this thread use cpu frequencies i can not reach with my bios limiting vcore so i'd be happy if you could run everest at stock just for mobo clock per clock and timing by timing comparison.

So you're using one of the new BIOSes I gather?

That's why I reverted to 1.13 BETA. ;)

On this'an I'll test if DID works for NB or CPU.

They are supposed to work you know, even 0.25 dividers are supposed to work and they are fairly simple options with PLLs, but for some reason both the CPU DID and NB DID options changed from 1 result in no POST IME. :([/QUOTE]
01-30-2008, 08:55 AM
justapost

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Other way round, exactly. :D

If you want access to lower volts, decrease VID.
If you want access to higher volts, increase VID.

I believe the CPU and NB VIDs are mapped to the same range of voltages.

Can be it's a feature of your mobo's bios to prevent harmfull settings.

Hmm..

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Yeah, they're the same. We get 000-127 options too.

But they use binary=decimal VID values instead, which is of little use to us.

Guess they use binary values because it's easier for developers, whom have to work with the registers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Have you seen this below BTW? This is why we were having boot-up problems with low NB DID then.

Yepp, I saw it some time ago as i skimed thru that document looking for those dependencies. That time I thought I'll never be affected by those limits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

I wish they had unlocked HT downwards too! From >150 would've been good, especially handy when troubleshooting and limiting memory when testing through FID and DID combinations.

Yepp wished for lower ref HT also. :yepp:

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

You sure? ;)

I identified the chips and the relevant pins, just gonna find the resistances connected to those pins. The only issue is that area is infinitesimal in size. Can't follow the conducting paths with the eyes and the camera I have is also not high res enough.
Guess I can not measure resistances with the old osciloscope I have.

Do you have in mind which AMD document shows the pin assignment of the phenom cpu's?

BTW: My mobo has unganged settings in the bios (can be unhidden by hitting F4) so I can run everest benches in unanged mode for comparison here, but they will be lower than the ganged mode results. Most of your expamples in this thread use cpu frequencies i can not reach with my bios limiting vcore so i'd be happy if you could run everest at stock just for mobo clock per clock and timing by timing comparison.

Master does not sound bad, but i'm heading for guru state of mind. :D :alien: :devil:
01-30-2008, 10:36 AM
Hosser

Conflicting reports

Hi guys - I'm getting alot of conflicting information from my favourite hardware monitoring programs... Just what the hell have I done here? CPU-Z says I've done what I intended (reached 2.6GHz) but AOD and Vista insist I've underclocked... Weirder still, Everest says I've underclocked and yet have managed to increase performance... :ROTF:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9...tureac9.th.jpg

Can anyone throw some light on this mess for me?

Btw, whatever speed it's at, it's stable... Not sure if that's a good thing really.
01-30-2008, 10:51 AM
jonspd

do you have CNQ enabled?

was the overclock done via bios?

is so what did you set the pstates setting to?
01-30-2008, 11:09 AM
Hosser

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonspd

do you have CNQ enabled?

was the overclock done via bios?

is so what did you set the pstates setting to?

C&Q disabled.

Yes, overclock was done via BIOS - AOD nearly always crashes my system when I change a value, and then sends an ear-splittingly high-pitched tone through my speakers after having done so. So now I just look at it, and don't touch. ;D

P-States are disabled, always have been. I don't understand them, to tell you the truth.

By the way, Super-Pi 1M calculation is just under 30 seconds - similar to 2.5GHz... :/
01-30-2008, 11:12 AM
KTE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hosser

Hi guys - I'm getting alot of conflicting information from my favourite hardware monitoring programs... Just what the hell have I done here? CPU-Z says I've done what I intended (reached 2.6GHz) but AOD and Vista insist I've underclocked... Weirder still, Everest says I've underclocked and yet have managed to increase performance... :ROTF:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9...tureac9.th.jpg

Can anyone throw some light on this mess for me?

Btw, whatever speed it's at, it's stable... Not sure if that's a good thing really.

You're getting bugged reports because you set the NB multiplier too high (13x) which is not supported. Decrease it down to 9x or lower and you'll get proper 2.62G CPU, 2.053G NB readings. ;)

That CPU is most likely running 2.622G but the NB is running 2G. Also drop NB core volts down to stock, you don't need them as those are not the IMC volts. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by justapost

Can be it's a feature of your mobo's bios to prevent harmfull settings.

VIDs->volts is a feature on Phenoms as it was with K8 too. ;)

Quote:

I identified the chips and the relevant pins, just gonna find the resistances connected to those pins. The only issue is that area is infinitesimal in size. Can't follow the conducting paths with the eyes and the camera I have is also not high res enough.
Guess I can not measure resistances with the old osciloscope I have.

That's the problem. The area is too tight once you have a cooler there, I can't even get a probe through because of the heatpipes and by using DMM you will no doubt short the MOSFETs around and shutdown the system. I would mod it and throw out a guide to if I ws keeping it but I'm not keeping this system. I'm planning to sell it soon, possibly in 7-14 days. :D

Quote:

Do you have in mind which AMD document shows the pin assignment of the phenom cpu's?

Same as AM2 CPUs, pin for pin compatible. ;)

Quote:

BTW: My mobo has unganged settings in the bios (can be unhidden by hitting F4) so I can run everest benches in unanged mode for comparison here, but they will be lower than the ganged mode results. Most of your expamples in this thread use cpu frequencies i can not reach with my bios limiting vcore so i'd be happy if you could run everest at stock just for mobo clock per clock and timing by timing comparison.

Can you give me timings to run? Is 200x11 2200/1800/800 4-4-4-4 1T OK?

Quote:

Master does not sound bad, but i'm heading for guru state of mind. :D :alien: :devil:

:D

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page