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probably not to bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by eXa
as fast as a GTX 260?
looking at the results it looks OK, but considering that is a newer product using more power and performing equally to a Radeon 5700 (or a GTX 260 192) this is not so exciting, probably an overclocked 5750 is a better choice? and in my view the possibility to use 3 monitors on the same card also is something to think about when comparing these two.
Mem clock on my gtx460 1gb does not scale performance much, so i dont think its holding anything back.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Math is a dying art it seems. A 18% overclock results in 14-18% gains. Barely scales indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
This card will do fine at ~$130 MSRP assuming the HD5770 will drop to around that price in a few weeks. What the GTS 455 brings is a mystery but probably just higher bandwidth.
give credit to the source ffs :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Deye
Yeah, that's impossible. You'll be lucky to get a 10% performance increase out of an 18% overclock...Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
An epic fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by eXa
PhysX doesn't need that much power. An old 8800gt is more than enough for that, it's almost free, runs a lot cooler and consumes way less than this gts 450.
It needs to be $130 maximum. OC potention is a moot point, imho. The vast majority of consumers that buy at that price range doesn't even know exactly what overclocking is or does. :shrug:
That is, if people wanted to upgrade from many generations past, the 5770 was a compelling card. You're expecting some sort of 'genesis' of the legacy market share of nvidia to shift over to another midrange nvidia card, but that simply won't happen. In terms of relevant market share, ATI has been leading for a while now.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
So GTS450 uses more than a 8800gt @ load? i dont believe it uses more @ idle tho...Quote:
Originally Posted by Caparroz
I wonder how it performs in Photoshop, 3dsmax, etc...
I'm sure it uses way more @ load but i don't know about idle. Recent Nvidia cards have a pretty low consumption @ idle.Quote:
Originally Posted by eXa
I doubt the 450 uses more power, and is hotter than an 8800gt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caparroz
My 8800gt @ 800/2000/2000 maxed load temp 45c on my maze5 water block
My palit gtx460 @ 800/1600/4000 max load temp is 40c on the exact same maze5 and same loop.
oh i have no problem with companies doing this... its what they do... they are here to make money, of course...Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
but what i dont get is why YOU are making the point for them and defending their marketing tricks and product poisitioning even if it doesnt make sense and ends up screwing over customers who dont know better...
so your suggesting people to buy a 5870 based on its msrp, ignoring that the current price has actually increased since the launch?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
and your recommending people to rather buy a gtx460 for 250$ than a used gtx470 for the same price because the launch msrp of the 470 was higher than that of the 460, so the used 470... can not be compared to the 460?
dude, your not making any sense here!
when you buy a card you compare all the cards that are available for your budget and then compare them based on features and performance... according to what you say people should stay away from discounts and buy the latest and greatest, just because its new, regardless of better products being available for lower prices at that time! what the h3ck are you talking about??? :confused:
so a gts250 for 150$ was a bad buy when the 5770 came out for 199$, just because the 5770 was newer and the gts250 originally launched with a higher msrp?
you just cant draw any conclusions about which card is better than another based on launch msrp!!! thats ridiculous man! i cant believe your making comments like this...
yeah its a shame only you know whats REAAAALLY going on...Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
drivers change all the time, prices change all the time... so what are you saying? the cards will drop to 99$ at the official launch and the drivers will give it a 10% boost over night? ONCE that happens, we will inevitable discuss it in another thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
so you think it makes more sense to discuss what COULD happen instead of what we know so far? or are you suggesting we shouldnt discuss anything, because things change all the time and once we make a comment it might already be outdated? :D
sorry for the sloppy %tage numbers, was too lazy to look up the actual clocks :DQuote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
18% core and shader
11% memory
16.5% boost in vantage P
22% boost in coj 1600x1200 ( :confused: )
17% boost in fc2 1920x1080
15% boost in unigine 1920x1080 8aa
7% boost in wic
and i take it back... looking at the numbers some more, the boost from ocing does make a difference... going from 40 to 50 and 50 to 60 definitely helps...
and maybe more memory, gts450 with 2gb memory anybody? *looks at jmke* :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
hmmm so its a green 5770 basically...Quote:
Originally Posted by jmke
same perf, same price... meh, so much for competition...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Why not? If the performance and features are comparable, then you should.
MSRP is a theory, it isnt practice. Market price is what matters. The MSRP can be 150$, doesnt mean a damn thing if in the market it is selling for 50$ more or less than MSRP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Ahem?
Hold on and I'll fire up my delorean, have the sudden urge to buy a 5770 and buying one from a shop at the same time a DIRECTLY competing product is released would just be so unfair.
Your statement is only true if you also include the launch price of the GTS 450 product at the same time as the 5770 was launched.
So, Infinity dollars of a difference since the GTS450 did not exist.
Or should we wait around one whole year from the 5770 launch for the competition to catch up before prices are allowed to be influenced by the market?
I loved France's world cup winning team of 98. It isn't fair that Scotland was in that tournament with such a poor team.
The final should be postponed until scotland also have a world cup winning squad and France should be placed in a time negating stasis field.
What genesis? I was simply responding to your naive "who would buy this?" question. You asked that as if everyone in the world had upgraded in the last year. Again, past sales have no bearing on how popular a new part would be - that should be obvious by looking at the popularity of the 460 vs 480.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
Yeah, who WOULD buy this? Not people like me: perf isn't an upgrade. For the people that haven't upgraded yet, I highly doubt they will upgrade just because the GTS450 was released. Of the people who might upgrade to a mid range card, the 5770 and 460 have been stealing sales for a while now. Some people might buy it, but not in the numbers that will make this card a runaway success.
Also, Saaya is completely right. I can't believe I backed out of my point because of pressure.
this product will mostly go into bulk OEM maybe as a counter part and alternative to bundling HD 5770 ?
I don't think the current Fermi based VGA cards line up from nVidia is all that popular with OEMs, simply because OEMs love low power consuming cards. Ofcourse, nVidia still has margin shaving avenue to attract costumers (OEMs love el cheapo cards even better), but that has it's own negative consequences too.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmke
That's my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa
The features aren't comparable on the cards people have been comparing this new card to. The GTX 260, GTS 250, 9800 GTX+, etc all have a lack of DX11 and OpenGL 4.1 while their efficiency is lower and they are a bit less compact in terms of size as well.
Here is my point in simple terms: a last generation product (MSRP or otherwise) cannot be compared on a level footing with a current generation product due to differences in features, etc. If you never intend on using the features then sure, the last generation will ALWAYS be a more sensible purchase right before the transition to the latest products due to sell-off prices. Then again, if companies nit-picked about the particulars like some people here, this market would have stagnated long ago.
Naturally, if the features are the same like they were with the long list of G80 derivatives then of course comparisons need to be made.
I think of it this way: the ultra high end is usually clear cut since it MUST act as a flagship by bringing advances in performance. More moderate price ranges on the other hand usually get a bit muddied when going from generation to generation. This is due to the natural pricing overlap in a crowded segment that always occurs during the transition between outgoing and incoming architectures.
Who said anything about a runaway success? I was simply pointing out that your suggestion that nobody would buy the card because they had already upgraded is just silly. Now you're saying that the people who haven't upgraded yet won't upgrade just because this card was released. Sheesh. :confused:Quote:
Some people might buy it, but not in the numbers that will make this card a runaway success.
Essentially your point is that you won't buy the card because you already have a 4850. That's fine but you're not representative of the market and your owning a 4850 has no bearing on the millions of other customers in the world who either have no card, an outdated card, or get the card installed in some OEM job from their grandmother for Christmas. Again, "enthusiasts" overestimate their importance and relevance to the rest of the market especially in this price range.
I think it will sell, but in 'yawn' quantities. This product is 'yawn' overall.
It all depends on whether it's $130 or $150+. If it's the former then it's pretty safe. The problem isn't old cards, the problem is that it's entering a market where the competition is about to be refreshed.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Totally agree. Pricing in this situation will be key for NVIDIA since I think they need to hit the HD 5750's price point with a card that outperforms that ATI card in every....single....test. If they can do that, they'll have an excellent foot in the $125 -$145 door come the holiday shopping season.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
It is also important to remember that $125 HD 5750s usually only sport 512MB of memory.
Agree, 150$ would be a bit much, would make it feel like a 5830, as in oh s*** we chopped a bit too much of the chip off. 130$ would be more reasonable as it would only be a relatively small premium over the next lower nvidia product the 250 and priced against the 5750 (or 5770 as lets face it, amd could easily reduce the price of the 5770).
Now available at Newegg, priced around $130, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...GTS450&x=0&y=0