LGA 2011 is a PLATFORM FOR HIGH END DESKTOPQuote:
Originally Posted by radier
LGA 1150 IS A PLATFORM FOR MID RANGE DESKTOP
Socket changes can be part of a platform change for features.
Chipsets changes small features like how many raids it can use or how high the Bus speed can go.
Now if WE can back topic THIS thread is ABOUT STEAMROLLER, Not platforms
I saw this info posted on another forum and wanted to see what people here think about it. This is from the AMD supplied gcc "machine descriptor" file:
Quote:
;; AMD bdver3 Scheduling
;;
;; The bdver3 contains three pipelined FP units and two integer units.
;; Fetching and decoding logic is different from previous fam15 processors.
;; Fetching is done every two cycles rather than every cycle and
;; two decode units are available. The decode units therefore decode
;; four instructions in two cycles.
;;
;; Three DirectPath instructions decoders and only one VectorPath decoder
;; is available. They can decode three DirectPath instructions or one
;; VectorPath instruction per cycle.
;;
;; The load/store queue unit is not attached to the schedulers but
;; communicates with all the execution units separately instead.
;;
;; bdver3 belong to fam15 processors. We use the same insn attribute
;; that was used for bdver3 decoding scheme.
Zambezi and Vishera are supposed to do 4 instructions per clock cycle I thought, it looks like this is saying Steamroller design will do 2 instructions per clock cycle? I thought adding the second decoder so each core has its own again was supposed to increase IPC, not decrease it. I dont seem to understand it, which is why I hope the smart people from this forum can help explain what this actually means.
Any chance you can link to the full file? It sounds like the fetching is being delayed in order to hide latency on the decode units (give them a cycle to flush stuff out).Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGmA1987
someone replied in Overclock.net forumQuote:
Originally Posted by EniGmA1987
http://www.overclock.net/t/1404574/steamroller/300
http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/20...1079/bdver3.mdQuote:
Originally Posted by Darakian
I am wondering if maybe AMD feels that the majority of work for the CPU will be "double instructions" which take two cycles to decode, and thus the scheduler is only active every other cycle?
Im just trying to wrap my head around why AMD would move from running fetching and decoding every cycle, to only fetching every other. To me it just seems like it would be a step back in performance. And if you are now fetching only half as often, what point is there in doubling the decode units in the first place?Quote:
;; Double instructions take two cycles to decode.
KaveriPI (AGESA):
- Support for KV-B0 stepping.
- "Spectre" & "Spooky" HUMA GOP VBIOS
- DCT0, DCT1, DCT2, DCT3 config array
Loving the GPU codenames ;)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ons_flares.jpg
The main problem I see with quad channel memory is that people then need 4 memory sticks. While this is not a big deal for desktops, only high end laptops with dGPUs have 4 slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt
Unless maybe AMD is planning their own special 128bit memory? I don't think they have the clout to pull that off though. The industry adopting 128bit memory would be great though. Huge performance gains for IGPs and even a bit for CPUs. Cheaper boards can just support single channel to keep motherboard costs as they are today, but only 1 memory stick would be needed to match current bandwidth. Higher end motherboards can support dual channel for 256bit total memory bandwidth.
Entry level setups rarely feature a high-end APU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khenglish
Only the high-end (Spectre) GPU is fast enough to make the quad channel mandatory.
The downcored / clocked versions will be just fine with DDR-2133 dual channel DRAM, just like the current high-end GPUs are.
4x DDR-1333 modules are generally cheaper than 2x DDR-2133 modules, while the bandwidth is nearly 25% greater.
Hmm I just see few laptops supporting quad channel. Remember APU laptops, even the top ones, are budget laptops. There's limited space to add 2 more memory slots and the necessary signal routing to them on smaller laptops. Even on laptops that do have the room it still adds to costs. They already sell them with cheap 1600 ram so I don't see how they can use 4 slower sticks to cut costs significantly. The only way would be to use all 2GB sticks, but that will still cost more than 2 4GB, or 1 4GB with 1 2GB, which is what most cheap laptops come standard with.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt
It should be a phenomenal performance increase though for the laptops makers who do put the 4 slots in with 4 modules, but unfortunately I see most laptops getting gimped in some way.
KaveriPI ?? What means DCT2, DCT3 ...?
DCT3 means quad channel I guess (ABCD)
DCT0 + DCT1 is dual channel (AB) if I'm not mistaking.
Yup, that's it Olivon.
Thanks for sharing the info Stilt :).
The AC-130s might be seeing some 'close-in' action in the next few weeks ... if boots hit the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt
I like *PI* ... not sure what the significance of it is, if any, either.
Where could the rest of us find the source with that AGESA code so that we can view it?
You can take a look at it at Coreboot.org (until KabiniPI), however the code for Kaveri is under NDA and therefore currently unavailable.Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGmA1987
Interesing that you mention Coreboot. I considered it as a potential alternative to get AMD-Vi working on Motherboards of brands that don't care about implementing that feature correctly. However, according to this list, they only had one FM2 Motherboard and pretty much nothing else modern or interesing. I would love to see that project grow, but for as long as they distribute only source code, the amount of people that is capable of actually porting the source to a given Motherboard is rather small. I suppose that if they sticked to some popular mainstream Motheboards and released BIN files ready to flash like manufacturers do, more people would try it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt
Doesn't matter the code for each models are still there (AGESA) to be viewed.
http://techreport.com/news/25279/des...ri-not-delayed
So, not delayed. In time still. Feb '14 in stores, ships late this year.. will see, will see.
Well "on time" if you consider Feb '14 on time, which most people don't. AMD delays everything CPU side though so in a way it is on time for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanical Man
fm2+ mobos with 8 memorys slots :) lol
Sounds fun, but I still think we will get 4 DIMM slots as standard, but each DIMM driven by independent DCT.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
They should clock nicely though!
i think the same, maybe for future in enxt 2-3 years...If you see DRAM support, you cna see 3000 OC DRAM in memory dividier at FM2+ :)
So far I saw Gigabyte show off G1.Sniper for FM2+ platform
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=4683#ov
I hope they do release some A88X uATX (mATX) board :(
F2A88X-UP4 is still the enthusiast targeted model.Quote:
Originally Posted by imamage
Unlike the other Sniper-series boards (Intel), the G1.Sniper A88X is nothing but a mainstream motherboard equipped with higher grade audio. The Sniper uses 4+2 phase analog VRM while the F2A88X-UP4 features a 6+2 phase digital VRM.
Personally I would rather see a 4+4 phase VRM for the high-end FM2r2 motherboards, as the relative power density of the iGPU on Kaveri is higher than ever before.
Gigabyte writes that F2A88X-UP4 is a 8+2: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=4709#ovQuote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt
Im looking forward for Asus A88X-Pro. Maybe new designed heatsing and 6+2, or some Deluxe version.
Kaveri desktop is shipping in Q3 '13 and Kaveri laptop in Q1 '14, as AMD has stated for some time now. Road maps always have disclaimers as they are typically projecting 6-18 months in advance of product shipping. Intel missed their projected ship dates on both Ivy Bridge and Haswell so it's not just AMD who has had to push back slightly from the published road maps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khenglish
Check the amount of the inductors, it is 6+2 phase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fottemberg
Could we find two more inductors under the huge heat sink? :p:
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fottemberg
The F2A88X-UP4 is a slighty modified and upgraded F2A85X-UP4 board.
Nothing wrong with that as the latter one is technically already the best FM2 board ever existed.
I'm pretty confident a F2A85X-UP4 can be modified to support FM2r2 Kaveri APUs due this fact.
The F2A88X-UP4 bios can be patched to support the older IT8728F EC LPC/IO and the support for the ETRON USB3 controller (instead of VIA) should only be matter of the option rom in bios. Of course the socket needs to be modified to accept FM2r2 APUs by sanding down the keying bumps on the lid.
From the code stuff for Kaveri we see 4 channel memory support, but do we know for a fact this is quad channel with 64-bit channels that would go to 4 memory slots? Or could it be some sort of quad 32-bit channels designed for GDDR5? Unlikely that we will see some crazy GDDR5 memory slots or whatever, but I am thinking for some sort of embedded use.
http://wccftech.com/amd-desktop-kave...s-gpu-spotted/
832 SP and 13 CU. :-)
http://www.planet3dnow.de/cms/wp-con...8cu-crypto.png
Does the 256-bit thing mean anything?
Hard to say, but I like how kavieri has more memory bandwidth than richland even with slower memory. I really hope this is true :)
Thats with a discrete card.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
Kaveri has 8 SIMDs physically.
I wondered exactly that when AMD announced TrueAudio for new Radeons! This is very sensible move as it will greatly help with adaptation of this new DSP. I hope that nVidia/older gen AMD users will still be able to enable TrueAdudio in APU while rendering game on their discrete GPU.
This might be not possible though if TrueAudio is using GPU data to calculate sound transformations. We will see :D
I really hope we get some new info at the upcoming AMD developer conference. I really want to see what huma brings to the table.
Edit:
Came across these via hard. Take them with a grain of salt.
http://juanrga.com/en/AMD-kaveri-benchmark.html
http://www.overclock.net/t/1428372/a...ance-over-iris
wow, if this test are true...The performance seems very good, near some core i5 chips!
maybe if those benchmarking software were compiled by standard compiler, FX CPU will not looked so bad compared to Intel CPUQuote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
But if I read is, its only simulation data in graphs
i thought the stilt said it was using a discrete gpu not igpuQuote:
Originally Posted by Darakian
Honest question here: how excited are people over steamroller? While waiting for its release (Kaveri), I'm mulling the FM2 strategy and seeing it both makes sense and doesn't at the same time. Mostly I'm worried that they won't be able to pull a Phenom II out of their pockets like I feel they need to. Is the FM2 socket going to provide a processor that will be able to feed a mid-high end graphics card? Mantle, HuMA, and OpenCL aside, are the fundamentals there? HuMA is beautiful for HPC and scientific computing, but I'm not sure how well it will impact a typical consumer (there may be plenty of ways, sorry I'm ignorant there). I'm not disparaging AMD here, but just finding myself unsure of where they are trying to head with this and other upcoming processors...
I'm reasonably excited. Honestly more for Kaveri than for an FX line product. I want to start playing with HUMA :)
I wanna see how the 28nm process does for oveclocking and power consumption.
Well i dont see anyone here changing from 8 core FX to 4 core Kaveri, it may be a fine chip for a second pc and/or some tinkering though.
Im still hoping that AMD will come to their senses and either release 8 core kaveri or do a am3+ FX steamroller.I was mulling about going s2011 but i cant take this kind of douchebagery on the intel side to do this :-)
On the other hand if it would clock like crazy, those 2 module kaveris maybe are closer to 4 core intels with all the changes.
It would be awesome if they did produce an FX steamroller. I bet OC would be nice!
I guess this might sound crazy, but I expect a ~4Ghz 2M/4T Kaveri to outperform 8350 in games. Maybe in some very thread heavy games it won't, but in majority of ~4T games we see today and in near future Kaveri IMO has a potential (on paper) to be a better gaming chip even with 2x less thread count.
we must waiting few months. Im really looking forward how good will be iGPU nad HSA in practice.
the only time FX series will get out done is single thread. Kaveri will still look a dual core in things like cinebench. I'm not talking about it reading 2 cores 4 threads either. I'm talking about the MP ratio on advance setting.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
A Richland processor can already feed a GTX 680 perfectly fine if the game is coded to use the GPU well. There is no bottleneck of any kind like people seem to throw around these days. It is when a game is needing more CPU power that you start to see a difference, which many games do need a good chunk of CPU. We do not know how fast Kaveri will be just yet. It may be 20% faster than Richland all around, it may be 2% faster with a much better GPU. We also dont know how well future games will be coded. So it is really a complete gamble at this point in time whether Kaveri will be a really great little CPU to have, or a complete piece of crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by xVeinx
Nope. I have 3.2x mp ratio on my 750K in C15. That is exactly 20% lower than what "true" QC with no SMT get in this metric(like 3570K etc.). Kaveri will have dedicated decoders so 20% penalty there will be gone. This will make it basically scale as a true QC chip since the mp ratio will be ~3.8x+ or in the range of "true" QC designs. Then on top of that you will have *some* IPC gain over richland, it can be 1% or it can be ~15%, depending on the test. No wonder why AMD lists ~30% more ops/cycle, this is exactly what you will get when you multiply both the effect of dedicated decoders and the IPC gain due to various other improvements: 1.3x~=1.2x1.1 (20% being due to no penalty as we have 8 intsr/cycle per module instead of just 4 in multithreaded workloads; up to ~10% IPC which might be on the lowish side here but I'm being careful here).Quote:
Originally Posted by demonkevy666
Kaveri will look to outside software like a genuine QC product (looking at MP scaling factors, execution threads etc.). The possible fact that it won't be as fast as say 3570K( both at stock of course) doesn't mean it won't be a "true" QC. It will mean it is just a slower true QC product. The reasons behind this are various but let's say intel will still have more integer and SIMD/fp capability "per thread" in this comparison so it's no wonder this might still be the case. Excavator core will expand on SR core so in 2015 we might finally have a core that will be roughly on an equal footing with Haswell/Broadwell (core per core, frequency being design specific). Intell will still have an advantage in thread count as AMD won't be going over 3 modules/6 threads, but most software on desktop cannot still even utilize 4 cores properly so it won't matter.
adding in a decoder doesn't change the fact the L1 instruction cache is still shared and will probably still work the same way for Kaveri as it does for FX.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Any idea when these will be available?
Feb 2014?
I think January (its my tip)
It has received a major revamp(size, hit rate) along with many other parts of the front end (that are still also shared). This is all public info that we have known for almost a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by demonkevy666
Not steamroller news but AMD just posted patches for excavator support to the linux kernel.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...Increases.html
https://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2.../msg00155.html
Xbit also has an article on AMD moving to 20 and 14nm
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/d..._Quarters.html
tl;dr the patch basically says excavator is in the works (steamroller got added over a year ago so... ya)
the lithography article doesn't have any hard timelines either so it's more fluff than anything.
Still, people talking.
heres to a 28nm processor for am3+! :toast:
Hey i know this is slightly off topic, but anyone have any new news on the binned PS4 chips for retail? Kinda wondering when/how those are going to show up and what configuration.
probably not gonna happen
but would possible make a decent steambox??
but yah probably not, cpu is not that strong
Mullins should be available for embedded solutions (other than console) at some point.
Hm, Kaveri has the same VID interface standard as Richland? Richland+Trinity has SVID 2.
If Kaveri is only going to have 85% of the float performance of the previous cores, I'd like to think they wouldn't release it (i.e., back to tweaking).
this is not so simply - FXs have L3 cache and there is performance boost (you can see it in superpi or in harder benchmarks as Cinebench too)
Can't wait for kaveri mobile chips!
Wanna get something like the MSI gx70 but Richland was a little bit lacking to power the 8970m
True, but this would be after the improvements. There wasn't more than about 15% performance difference to begin with, and this doesn't make sense with the improvements we're seeing with integer...Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
I heard about lower clocks with Kaveri chips. No more 4 GHz...True/false? I dont know now.
If you have ever been sitting in a traffic jam caused by a road construction site, you'll know that these...Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ar_CS-533E.jpg
... move very slowly, but also get the job done very effectively.
Hammer time.
:D
Yah I remember there was something mentioned in The article explaining steamrollers arch that it was gonna be lower clock speed. But more efficient per clockQuote:
Originally Posted by radier
Stilt I LOVE the reference :D but I still hope it's not sitting at stock ~3Ghz range.
PS "Hammer please don't hurt them" :P
If with lower clock will be effective why not lower clocks after :)...
:eek: dropping the clock from 4 to 3 GHz is a steep drop. Seems there is a lot changing under the hood this time around....
it's actually haswell with radeon graphics on it :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by xVeinx
sent from future: April 1st 2014
"The power savings comes from not having to route clocks and signals as far, while the area savings are a result of the computer automated transistor placement/routing and higher density gate/logic libraries. The tradeoff is peak frequency. These heavily automated designs won?t be able to clock as high as the older hand drawn designs. AMD believes the sacrifice is worth it however because in power constrained environments (e.g. a notebook) you won?t hit max frequency regardless, and you?ll instead see a 15 - 30% energy reduction per operation. AMD equates this with the power savings you?d get from a full process node improvement."
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6201/a...r-architecture
Hi guys! :D
About the frequency of the GPU, we have to evaluate that a Radeon HD7750 (512SP, 8CU, GCN) generates 920 GFlops @900 MHz (SP). Also, I know that actually Kaveri ESamples generate a similiar amount of GFlops at the same frequency. So Kaveri will have the GPU at 1GHz (or more) to reach the goal of 1050 GFlops (as AMD slides reported one year ago). ;)
Except those are in use for excavator, not steamroller ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
seems like it would be worth it for Amd to release a steamroller cpu for all the am3+ users, even with out an updated chipset. potential for the whole user base to upgrade.
but then again i don't seem them doing it without having an updated chipset? hmm i dunno.
i for one would upgrade my aging am3+ mobo with a steamroller FX chip.
Not sure. They have a lot of older processors/stock floating about and I'm not sure how much income it would produce relative to the costs of production/chipset/etc.. For servers, they'll use the C32/G34 socket, so it isn't simply a matter of repackaging an Opteron as an FX. If they are looking to consolidate lines, now may be the time to do it. I understand the sentiment completely; my only question is whether or not it really benefits AMD in the long run.
Me too, would absolutely love another CPU line to drop in my system but as xVeinx said it'll all come down to the money and AMD doesn't have a lot of that kicking around at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
I just wanna see how a 28nm FX chip performs! Gotta be some power savings!
Doing a 4 to 3ghz .Hum.
Is AMD doing a "conroe" ? Jeez it would be nice.
Stilt , i know you cant say anything of importance.But is your comment "hammer time" in expectation of kaveris performance ? Wil it Athlonize(K7) the market ? :P
Could be but 1GHz compared to the 800/850 we have in current APU's is quite high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fottemberg
Maybe a part of the GFlops are comming from the newer GCN architecture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vario
Could be that they shortened the Pipleline again.
Bulldozer's pipline was quite a bit longer compared to the K10,5 Architecture (Deneb and Thuban cores).
Lower clocks could also help to get more performance per watt. And CPU's for tablets and Laptops are more important then every. The Desktop market is getting smaller and smaller.
Top performance might go down a bit. But if the performance per watt is similar to Intel they can still be winners in the mobile space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vario
There is already a Kaveri ES sample we have seen with a 3.5GHz base speed, so the rumor that these will top out around 3GHz is quite obviously wrong.
Here are the pics:
Attachment 131763
Attachment 131764
seems, you have right. IM looking forward for some benchmarks.
The model code on ES parts doesn't always specify the clock frequency (usually it does thou).
For example ES Trinity parts with 4500 model number have base frequency of 1900MHz.
So A10-7xx0K may have max boost frequency around 4ghz. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by EniGmA1987
Should probably find out by Wednesday
New slide. :D
http://www.pcworld.com/article/20624...n-january.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7507/a...p-january-14th
Attachment 131825
Quote:
Second of all, we have confirmation on what the highest shipping APU configuration will be. Kaveri will have up to 4 CPU core (2 modules), which will be based on AMD’s latest revision of their desktop CPU architecture, Steamroller. Meanwhile the GPU will be composed of 8 GCN 1.1 CUs, which would put the SP count at 512 SPs (this would be equivalent to today's desktop Radeon HD 7750). Furthermore AMD is throwing around a floating point performance number – 856 GFLOPS – which thanks to some details found in AMD's footnotes by PCWorld gives us specific clockspeeds and even a product name. A10-7850K CPU clockspeed 3.7GHz, GPU clockspeed 720MHz.
FYI: 3.7 GHz is base clock, not turbo.
Will be interesting how the HUMA Memory Controller affects performance in different situations...
I thought it was suppose to hit 1 Tflops?
Still cool to see kaveri finally emerging!
Huma will be interesting
They didn't hit 1TF as it seems they have missed the target GPU clock range. If it was ~900Mhz the 1TF would have been achieved. That's a good 25% lower clock speed, I hope the GPU has some Turbo that can clock up at least 10% more.
my tip is 7850K will be 3.7GHz/4.1 GHz (turbo) and OC around 4500-4600 MHz stable max. Next tips: Around 10% better than A10-6800K (no clocks to clocks), single tread around 5%+, multi 10-17%+
My prediction.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
Stock vs stock, 7850K (3.7/4.1Ghz) vs 6800K (4.1/4.4Ghz)
In ST: ~10-12% better performance on average. IPC ~20% higher.
In MT: ~22-25% better performance on average. "IPC" ~35% higher. I put it in quotation marks since IPC is really "only" 20% higher like in ST case but this time we don't have the ~10-15% penalty from shared decoder. I took mean number of ~13% and got to: 1.2x1.13=1.35 or 35% higher throughput.
Power efficiency will be better though
Seen this Kaveria 3.5GHz ES results over at Overclock.net http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/223722. As far as i remember geekbench tends to vary alot between run's so it's not that usefull. Memory speed has an huge impact on the overall score aswell. Anyway found this A8-6500 (3.5GHz) results with similar memory results but on an different os. http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekb...aseline=223722