Vega's *Heavyweight* display and computer; edition 2012

Hey Vega, few questions for you. you have probably answered this one before but i haven't read it.... What made you move away from the 3 Samsung S27A750's in portrait? That was a great mod you did to remove bezels and trim the frame down. Were they no longer structurally sound enough to continue using or was it some other reason?

I would also be interested in your opinion what it was like to watch movies on the PPP setup, were the bezels distracting when you were further back from screen watching video? Also i do a lot of CAD work, mostly Solidworks these days and was wandering if it is annoying with those sorts of programs?

I am interested because it seems like the only viable option for 120hz (not for 3d, just true 120hz with good resolution) with so much screen territory apart from your CRT setup, not really keen on the Freznels either, like you seem to have discovered....

Also I am not particularly fussed with backlight issues, screen viewing angles or colour gamut etc, what I do want is 120hz and large screen area with minimal bezels, which brings me to my last question. Do you think there is more width to be removed from the samsung bezels by trimming the screen itself (i'm not afraid to kill the monitor in trying), or do the electrics prevent any further reduction?? What I want is to trim the dead screen edge off the middle screen on both sides and off the insides of the outer monitors, and then to give it some structural integrity make a custom aluminium frame to sandwich it all together around the outer edge, and add in some sub 3mm vertical bezels in between the screens if necessary. I saw that curved screen by Ostendo (http://www.pcworld.com/article/18320...g_display.html) or whoever so it is possible if designed that way, it was basically 6 small screens in one frame, just hope i can retrofit the Samsungs to do the same thing or similar at least, more height, less width, 1/4 the price and 120hz :P

Any thought's would be welcome and I will happily learn from any lessons you learnt along the way.

Oh, snap!

This thread just caught my attention again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_G

Hey Vega, few questions for you. you have probably answered this one before but i haven't read it.... What made you move away from the 3 Samsung S27A750's in portrait? That was a great mod you did to remove bezels and trim the frame down. Were they no longer structurally sound enough to continue using or was it some other reason?

I would also be interested in your opinion what it was like to watch movies on the PPP setup, were the bezels distracting when you were further back from screen watching video? Also i do a lot of CAD work, mostly Solidworks these days and was wandering if it is annoying with those sorts of programs?

I am interested because it seems like the only viable option for 120hz (not for 3d, just true 120hz with good resolution) with so much screen territory apart from your CRT setup, not really keen on the Freznels either, like you seem to have discovered....

Also I am not particularly fussed with backlight issues, screen viewing angles or colour gamut etc, what I do want is 120hz and large screen area with minimal bezels, which brings me to my last question. Do you think there is more width to be removed from the samsung bezels by trimming the screen itself (i'm not afraid to kill the monitor in trying), or do the electrics prevent any further reduction?? What I want is to trim the dead screen edge off the middle screen on both sides and off the insides of the outer monitors, and then to give it some structural integrity make a custom aluminium frame to sandwich it all together around the outer edge, and add in some sub 3mm vertical bezels in between the screens if necessary. I saw that curved screen by Ostendo (http://www.pcworld.com/article/18320...g_display.html) or whoever so it is possible if designed that way, it was basically 6 small screens in one frame, just hope i can retrofit the Samsungs to do the same thing or similar at least, more height, less width, 1/4 the price and 120hz :P

Any thought's would be welcome and I will happily learn from any lessons you learnt along the way.

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No, the 3x Samsung's worked excellent. I actually didn't realize just how nice and small those bezel's were once they were taken apart compared to other LCD's. I basically sold off that setup as I had 6990's running it which didn't play too well.

As for the bezel's, I think that is entirely subjective. Some people absolutely hate them and some like me they don't bother. I am currently testing the feasibility of using 5x 27" 1440P Catleap's over-clocked in the 90 Hz range with 2x 7990s. Testing 3x Catleap's with my GTX 680's at the moment.

I had the Samsung's down to 1/4" bezel and you wont be able to go any smaller. The edge of the LCD glass-substrate is the limiting factor. You touch that and your LCD is ruined. People don't realize that the "lit" pixel's don't go all the way to the edge of an LCD panel. There is a gap to seal off the panel around the image area. It is impossible not to have this. That Ostendo thing is a piece of junk. ;)

Ok cool. It did look like a sweet setup!!

Yeah I've heard about those Catleap's but I didn't realize they were 2560x1440, I think I need new pants :D... Are they running well on the GTX680's? That's what I will run mine on, maximum 3 monitors though. One of the Catleap forum threads says Nvidia cards will do 100hz, whats your experience? 90-100hz is plenty, especially at that resolution, that was my only qualm about the Samsung setup, low res for 27".

Any scope to remove the bezels on the Catleaps, have you had a look under the bezel?

And yeah I wasn't sure how far you had trimmed the Samsung's, I was hoping there might be a few more mm's to be shaved off. I guess I'd get used to the bezels, and if it annoys me in movies I can just grab an LED TV as well.

EDIT: Just realized the Catleaps are IPS panels, I'm in love!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_G

Ok cool. It did look like a sweet setup!!

Yeah I've heard about those Catleap's but I didn't realize they were 2560x1440, I think I need new pants :D... Are they running well on the GTX680's? That's what I will run mine on, maximum 3 monitors though. One of the Catleap forum threads says Nvidia cards will do 100hz, whats your experience? 90-100hz is plenty, especially at that resolution, that was my only qualm about the Samsung setup, low res for 27".

Any scope to remove the bezels on the Catleaps, have you had a look under the bezel?

And yeah I wasn't sure how far you had trimmed the Samsung's, I was hoping there might be a few more mm's to be shaved off. I guess I'd get used to the bezels, and if it annoys me in movies I can just grab an LED TV as well.

EDIT: Just realized the Catleaps are IPS panels, I'm in love!!

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Ya, the Catleap's are awesome screens. Almost double the resolution of 1080P, 27" is a sweet size, IPS viewing quality, and going from 60 Hz to 90+ Hz is a huge difference. I will post some de-bezeled pics later.

Some pic's:


The panel is about 1/2 inch in thickness. Here is a pic comparing the size of the Catleap vs FW900:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0017-3.jpg



Metal LCD panel retention bracket top corner:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...a/SANY0021.jpg


Bottom corner:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...a/SANY0022.jpg



Retention bracket removed, lit pixel at 2" mark to side just over 1/2 inch:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0020-3.jpg



Top lit pixel line to edge where panel ribbon cables connect wrap over to connect to PCB just over 1/2 inch:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0018-2.jpg



The bottom LED bar nemesis that sticks out almost 1 full inch:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0019-2.jpg



Bottom right corner as installed in housing:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0023-1.jpg



Testing 3x 2B catleap's in portrait (notice how small my trackball, G13 and keyboard are):

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0024-1.jpg


Man I forgot how big 27-30" screens are in portrait! I may have to try and get two more just to see the OMG factor of five of these in portrait. ;) Obviously the bezel gaps would be much smaller once I gave it the Vega treatment! The left side of each panel would overlap the large LED bar of the panel next to it, so each screen would have a slit angle to it. Not a huge deal with IPS viewing angles. Once properly done, the bezel gaps would be around .55 of an inch.

Hmm, doesn't look as ideal as the samsung, but as you say, give it the "Vega" and we could be good to go :P Did the samsung have the bigger bottom edge as well? I think having the left of each panel overlapped might annoy me, I'd have to try it out to know though.

Hazro might be worth checking out, the 27" and 30" monitors have nice thin bezels, they are ccfl though. there are also 2 led 27" monitors but the bezels look similar to the catleap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_G

Hmm, doesn't look as ideal as the samsung, but as you say, give it the "Vega" and we could be good to go :P Did the samsung have the bigger bottom edge as well? I think having the left of each panel overlapped might annoy me, I'd have to try it out to know though.

Hazro might be worth checking out, the 27" and 30" monitors have nice thin bezels, they are ccfl though. there are also 2 led 27" monitors but the bezels look similar to the catleap.

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The Samsung's had the LED's tucked up under the edge of the panel which made it much smaller. Granted the Catleap's are only 1/2 inch thick so the angle from side to size really isn't as bad as you think. Especially when you have five of them curving in front of you.

The best part about the Catleap's is that they are IPS so the viewing angles really aren't a problem like 5 TN panels in portrait. The resolution increase is also ridiculous lol. CCFL panel are a no-go, they are too thick. I think most people will be pleasantly surprised if I get my hands on another two 2B catleap's all given the treatment. Of course I'd need a 7990 and a f*load of adapters to get it working haha.

I have a Catleap and love it and for the price you cannot beat them. Did you get the special edition models that are overclockable, the 2b series?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

I have a Catleap and love it and for the price you cannot beat them. Did you get the special edition models that are overclockable, the 2b series?

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Yes. But in SLI the drivers limit you to 102 Hz refresh rate because of the 400 MHz pixel clock limit.

Still, 102Hz is better than 60Hz or 65Hz which is the highest mine will go. Even at 65Hz it was a great bargain. I actually gave up mu three monitor setup for it and haven't looked back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

Still, 102Hz is better than 60Hz or 65Hz which is the highest mine will go. Even at 65Hz it was a great bargain. I actually gave up mu three monitor setup for it and haven't looked back.

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Ya, this screen is pretty sweet.



On another note:

This is one of my favorite motherboards ever. Doing some setup:


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0018-3.jpg


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0019-3.jpg

That is a nice board! I'm kind of hoping Asus brings back their "black edition" board for the RIVE, i hate having colours on the Mobo that don't match the theme of the case, and i don't like red/black :P I would like a black PCB and all black slots, can tolerate a bit of grey or whatever for dimm slots... My next build will be white case and purple dye in watercooling loop. so red would just throw that off, even though you can't really see it all the time. Black case green water would look nice with that gigabyte though, throw some green sleeving on your norprene tubing n that would look sick.

Great news about the Accell 330MHz DP to DVI adapter: http://www.accellcables.com/products...dp330_dvid.htm

They must have used a nice chip in here as I can overclock this bad boy to ~425 MHz pixel clock, or about 108 Hz on the Catleap. It's good to know that I can make one of my monster Eyefinity setups now and be at pretty good refresh rate. ;)

Now all I need is one more 2B Catleap monitor, three more of these adapters and 2x 7990's and my 18.4 million pixel de-bezeled 5x1 portrait Eyefinity build of ownage can commence. :D

"It was one of the scariest moments of my life, but it had to be done. It takes some guts to take apart a 19" LCD screen that cost $120."

LOL, a read for a good laugh: http://blog.fieryferret.com/labels/display.html

Did some more extensive testing. With the monitor running at 60 Hz, the center of the ribbon cable operates between 130 to 175 F. So it looks like they are designed to get pretty warm. This is with a 71 F ambient temp. With the monitor overclocked to 120 Hz, the ribbon cables operate at 150 to 245 F. So a nice increase there.

Temp readings are in the center of the cable where the electric traces converge to the middle where the red arrow is:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ANY0002-13.jpg


Is anyone an electrical engineer or know of one to see if this is detrimental or not? Who knows, maybe this special type of ribbon cable is perfectly fine at these temperatures. Just don't accidentally touch one like I did while adjusting my de-bezeled monitor as they burn!

As for the rest of the electronics, everything seems A-OK. The display controller chip, 220V chokes, capacitors, LED bar, everything else stays 110 F or lower at 60 Hz. Testing the same components at 120 Hz everything stays below 120 F (in my open air setup). That isn't much of a rise so no worries there. It's those cables that show an appreciable rise in temp. Since I haven't heard of any failing and the temp's level off and I see no damage to the ribbon cable, I am sure it will be fine. Just caught me off guard that a cable could get that hot!


Some more pics:

This is one bad mojo stand (I love it).

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0011-7.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0013-4.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0014-5.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0012-6.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0015-3.jpg

Time to set up the de-bezel assembly line for the rest. :eek:

Vega. Why the strange move from the great 3X ZR30W you had before to the cheap Korean displays? Short on cash?

Or else, I don't see any other valid reason to go from some of the greatest 30'' on the market to some really cheapo-random-luck-for-a-good one Catleap...

Just curious.

Because he got the catleaps you can overclock, read the thread dude.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metachronos

Because he got the catleaps you can overclock, read the thread dude.

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lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega

"It was one of the scariest moments of my life, but it had to be done. It takes some guts to take apart a 19" LCD screen that cost $120."

LOL, a read for a good laugh: http://blog.fieryferret.com/labels/display.html

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ha, just saw this and had a quick scan through, would be funny to see the look on his face if he knew what you were up to. i like that bit about separating the lcd panel from the backlight though, makes me think that with the right monitor, or maybe through a company like hasro that does custom stuff, i could make or commission a 3 x 2560x1440 in PPP 100hz monitor with about 2mm dead space/bezel in between panels for the ribbon cables to attach, i guess the real width would be the number of pixels that aren't activated at the edge, the backlight could be fulled back and joined behind the panels so there is no dark spots. could be fun to play with.

Keep us posted.

Just a quick update, three 2B Catleap's de-bezeled portrait at 102 Hz:


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ANY0003-13.jpg


Loving the gloss IPS viewing angles and colors in portrait! Time to test these bad boys out in some games.

oooooooh, pure sex, lol. looks good man!!!

EDIT: plus a quick question, can't remember if i asked this before but can you rotate the far right screen 180* and overlap the smaller edge of right screen over the middle screens bezel. that little angle difference you get by always overlapping the right edge just drives me nuts, i know its such a nit picky thing but that stuff gets to me. if you can't surely it would only take a small driver change by AMD or Nividia to achieve this, as you can already rotate displays any way you want for portrait right, so should be able to have them in opposite rotation and just change the specific monitors settings. not sure how that works in eyefinity or surround though.

Nice monitors! Any update on the amazing cooling system you planning to install?

water cool it and then overclock them more :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_G

oooooooh, pure sex, lol. looks good man!!!

EDIT: plus a quick question, can't remember if i asked this before but can you rotate the far right screen 180* and overlap the smaller edge of right screen over the middle screens bezel. that little angle difference you get by always overlapping the right edge just drives me nuts, i know its such a nit picky thing but that stuff gets to me. if you can't surely it would only take a small driver change by AMD or Nividia to achieve this, as you can already rotate displays any way you want for portrait right, so should be able to have them in opposite rotation and just change the specific monitors settings. not sure how that works in eyefinity or surround though.

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The small overlap only changes the angle of the screen a few degrees. With IPS great viewing angles it is no problem. Sure it would be optimal not to have an overlap but you will never be able to get as small of bezel gaps.

As for the AMD/NVIDIA driver change, that made me chuckle! They can barely hold on to functioning drivers for Eyefinity/Surround let alone make large changes like that. They do not allow what you propose, but it would be nice in the future. Although with more than two screens you will run into something that has to overlap when using non-symmetrical monitors like these.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeoAndrade

Nice monitors! Any update on the amazing cooling system you planning to install?

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Somewhat on a pause right now as I will be moving in the not-so-distant future.

Two GTX 680's are just awful trying to run these three Catleap's. Ton's of stuttering and slow-downs in BF3. I have two MSI Lightning 7970's inbound to see if they fair better. If two of those can't run three of these screens, I don't think two X2 7970's will run five catleap's any better and I might have to re-evaluate my display setup. Pushing this many pixels at this high of a refresh rate is seriously demanding. :eek:

at this high of refresh rate OR fps?

this thread is like watching NASA design and test something

Quote:

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Originally Posted by churchy

at this high of refresh rate OR fps?

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Both, I like to keep the min FPS at the refresh rate.

Looking at these benchmarks i don't think the 7970's will do better... i think worse :(
Battlefield 3 DirectX 11 [C] Extreme on Toms harware.

looks like you will need 1 video card per monitor. with a bigger board, watercooled video cards so they only take 1 slot per card.
its posible to do.
I had 6 6970's in 1 mining rig. :D

Those Tom's benchmarks really don't apply. I am interested in Eyefinity benchmarks in cross-fire with the new June drivers. Pretty impossible to find. All of the GHz edition 7970 reviews are single card.

I don't think they will be that much faster then regular 7970's in single mode. They are only 12% faster for a single card.
what about dual GTX 690s?

Man, you are planning to install five of those monsters? And you plan to handle everything on 102fps minimum? You should wait for the new keplers to arrive, maybe on the end of this year. Since we don't have big asses keblers right now, you should look Quad 7970's 6gb and overclock them to hell

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeoAndrade

Man, you are planning to install five of those monsters? And you plan to handle everything on 102fps minimum? You should wait for the new keplers to arrive, maybe on the end of this year. Since we don't have big asses keblers right now, you should look Quad 7970's 6gb and overclock them to hell

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There are no 6GB cards out, and the only one that is suppose to come out has absolute fail outputs connections that cannot do what I need.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ANY0004-13.jpg


VS


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ANY0003-13.jpg


Who will win this struggle? Pure brute power versus high resolution and high refresh rate?

Stay tuned for 2x GTX 680's vs 2x Lightning 7970's vs 4x Lightning 7970's running three 2B Catleap's at 4320x2560 @ 110 Hz benchmarks.

Still doing some more testing. Seems there are a ton of quirks. Like Crysis 2 crashes with DX11 but runs pretty good DX9. BF3 seems a little better with 12.6 vs 12.7 but I wouldn't call it very smooth.

Witcher 2 is just abysmal with both. Shows 100 FPS but plays like 15 FPS. WoW in quad-fire gets less FPS than 2 cards and has unplayable hitching. In 2 cards it runs great though. Skyrim will only use a max of 2 GPU's no matter what I do.

Diablo 3 runs great though In Quad fire LOL I get over 220 FPS with all settings maxed.

So far a mixed bag, not overly impressed. Also might be a bit of me losing interest in multi-screen gaming. Eyefinity was a pain to set up. Had to use the custom .sys file to get past the pixel clock limit and I found out the 330 MHz Accel adapters don't all overclock the same. Then I get the standard AMD "DP link degradation blah blah" with the adapter 6 inches from the DP output. Don't even know how that's possible. Then the monitor goes black and/or glitches show up.

I might just pick the two fastest Lightnings and run those single screen. Going to try tr-fire now and see what I get.

In testing 2x 7970's beat out 2x 680's at this resolution besides Skyrim (first number is FPS, second VRAM usage):

Skyrim - All Ultra/4x MSAA

2x 680- 72/1863
2x 7970- 55/1942
4x 7970- Doesn't work


BF3 - Texture H/Shadow M/Effects L/Mesh L/Terrain L/Decor L/MSAA 0X/FXAA H/BLur Off/AF 16X/HBAO

2x 680- 59/1848
2x 7970- 69/1876


Diabo III - All in-game settings maxed

2x 680- 109/1242
2x 7970- 112/1247
4x 7970- 224


Metro2033 - Normal/0x MSAA

2x 680- 82/1323
2x 7970- 93/1342


Witcher 2 Enhanced - Medium

2x 680- 39/1491
2x 7970- 49/1377
4x 7970- 92 - Stuttering mess unplayable


Crysis 2 - High/DX11/Texture Pack

2x 680- 60/2025
2x 7970- 63/2515
4x 7970- DX11 Crash, DX9 works well 110 FPS


WoW - Max/4x MSAA

2x 680- 107/1702
2x 7970- 134/1675
4x 7970- 126 - Low GPU usage and hitching


I'd say 2x 7970's at stock average around 5-20% faster speed than 2x 680's at stock. :thumb:

Two 7970's are working REALLY well on a single overclocked catleap. Super smooth. They also run the 3x1 portrait setup in WoW really well. I don't play WoW, just testing for Guild Wars 2 as they run about the same.

I've noticed this stand has a really nice feature. The hinges rotate so I can switch from a 3x1 portrait setup to a 1x landscape center screen setup really easy! So basically I can have a 1x landscape screen for game like BF3 that don't work so well on the monster setup, and can convert to the 3x1 portrait setup for game like GW2 in less than 30 seconds. That combined with the super smoothness and simplicity of 2x 7970's is working well so far.

5x1 portrait is definitely out of the question. I don't know what I was smoking considering that idea LOL.

But if I go with this 3x1 portrait, 1x landscape overclocked Catleap hybrid I will get rid of the Lightnings (thank you Amazon easy return policy) and get two Asus ROG Matrix 7970's. The logic behind this is that the Lightnings only have single link DVI ports, so even on the single Catleap I have to run the DP to DVI adapter which limits me to around 109 Hz. With the Matrix 7970's dual-link DVI port I can run my best Catleap at 125+ Hz in the center and run the two side Catleaps off of two of the DP's at the ~109 Hz. Since I guarantee no one with make a water block for the Matrix, I would just do a custom GPU water block and put heatsink's on all the memory and VRMs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega

Two 7970's are working REALLY well on a single overclocked catleap. Super smooth. They also run the 3x1 portrait setup in WoW really well. I don't play WoW, just testing for Guild Wars 2 as they run about the same.

I've noticed this stand has a really nice feature. The hinges rotate so I can switch from a 3x1 portrait setup to a 1x landscape center screen setup really easy! So basically I can have a 1x landscape screen for game like BF3 that don't work so well on the monster setup, and can convert to the 3x1 portrait setup for game like GW2 in less than 30 seconds. That combined with the super smoothness and simplicity of 2x 7970's is working well so far.

5x1 portrait is definitely out of the question. I don't know what I was smoking considering that idea LOL.

But if I go with this 3x1 portrait, 1x landscape overclocked Catleap hybrid I will get rid of the Lightnings (thank you Amazon easy return policy) and get two Asus ROG Matrix 7970's. The logic behind this is that the Lightnings only have single link DVI ports, so even on the single Catleap I have to run the DP to DVI adapter which limits me to around 109 Hz. With the Matrix 7970's dual-link DVI port I can run my best Catleap at 125+ Hz in the center and run the two side Catleaps off of two of the DP's at the ~109 Hz. Since I guarantee no one with make a water block for the Matrix, I would just do a custom GPU water block and put heatsink's on all the memory and VRMs.

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Don't do that. Running this cards with passiv heatsinks ( even with a fan pointed out there ) will run you frustrated, belive me. The difference when I had my system running 2x 7970 with one of them with the FC and the other with a GPU-only block vs 2x FC was huge. I believe it's because the VRMs will heatup like there's no tomorrow. VRAM will get pretty hot too, sadly this will greatly reduce your overclock.

Wouldn't you be better with a 109HZ refreshrate but with lightnings with FC blocks ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by st0ned

Don't do that. Running this cards with passiv heatsinks ( even with a fan pointed out there ) will run you frustrated, belive me. The difference when I had my system running 2x 7970 with one of them with the FC and the other with a GPU-only block vs 2x FC was huge. I believe it's because the VRMs will heatup like there's no tomorrow. VRAM will get pretty hot too, sadly this will greatly reduce your overclock.

Wouldn't you be better with a 109HZ refreshrate but with lightnings with FC blocks ?

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You really think the VRM's and such really get that hot? Even with air heat sinks on each one and a strong fan blowing on them? Not going to be looking for LN2 world records, just 1.35-1.40v on the GPU to run ~1350 MHz core or so. The Matrix has 20 phase VRM, I just couldn't imagine all 20 of those would get hot enough to throttle down and effect the overclock.

I'm thinking something like this:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7182/img0910g.jpg

or this:

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3733/vrmsinks.jpg

With a heatsink on every single memory chip and VRM/Choke. You think they would still get really hot (throttling hot) even with a 200mm fan blowing down on the two cards with 20 phases per card? I mean the stock heatsink does fairly well and that's just an air heat sink and also has to deal with the GPU chip heat.


Forgot to mention that with the Catleaps and the DP-DVI adapters the BIOS and post process does not show up. Another reason to go with a card that has a native DL-DVI connection like the Matrix 7970. I'm not having a separate monitor on my desk just to be able to get into the BIOS, that's retarded.

Well I had mine like this

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20116032/Pr...2010.44.26.jpg

mounted:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20116032/Pr...2020.03.00.jpg

With more 2 120mm fans on my V2000 side. And even pushing 1.25v was an adventure. I also had to forget about memory OC. I could only run around 1.2v 1200Mhz Core and 1400Mhz memory, something else would run in to heat problems and fail soon or later. Now I can push 1.4v and 1300Mhz with no problem ( on both cards, both with a FC block ).


Now

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20116032/Pr...2018.41.30.jpg (yeah I know tube coloring is bad bad bad but I had to finish some reviews and I noticed too late I was low on tube so I had to use everything I had laying around ><

few questions about those monitors:
how much did it cost you to get one guaranteed for overclocking the framerate.
how fast can it go if i only have 1x 680. i dont know if its a port limit, gpu limit, or monitor limit.
and how are the colors compared to your old 30" screens, i love my current IPS and can notice how good the colors are compared to other screens, and definitly not wanting to downgrade it.

thanks, and incredible work :up:

Not entirely convinced on Z77 16x lanes being split into four 8x lanes with the PLX chip. Just to rule that out I bought a gun to play with my four 7970 Lightning's:


http://www.xs-pc.com/wp-content/uplo...2/04/MSI-2.jpg


Oh, and five of these on the right:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0033-1.jpg


The screen setup was right at the time, it was the GPU's that weren't. So I will be trying 5x1 portrait again, but this time with the Samsung's and not the Catleap's. Catleap's just have too many pixels to push in 3-5x setups.

haha, i was waiting for X79 to pop back into the frame, with your resources and what your trying to do its the only solution that makes sense i believe. i guess we will see once you test it all again. i still think 3 x PPP is the max i would go to, 5 x PPP is just so wide, i know it creates amazing immersion in the game but if it impedes the performance so that you have to run less resolution or frame rate then what is the point? if only there was a 30" catleap at 2560x1600 that could do 100+hz. i also hope the consumer market gets to see BIG Kepler to drive these awesome set ups:P

I was doing some reading on QuadHD and 4K HDTV's last night which gives me hope that some time in the next few years we will have all this taken care of without all this experimenting and testing. If i could get a 32" Quad HD or 4K monitor with 120hz then that is primo! Right now though they all cost too much and they only have much bigger screens, like 55" plus, as well as strange implementations of 3D, passive or glasses free meaning possibly not real 120hz at that res.

also, with these catleaps, its this 2B PCB that allows them to be overclocked, is it possible to get hold of this PCB and ghetto it onto another panel, ie 30" IPS etc?

Basically yes, you can take the catleap PCB and attach it to different monitors.

However it requires some rather intricate details in hardware knowledge to get anywhere other than a black screen..

The other alternative is an EDID editor and a couple other programs: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...IQ-Downscaling

I've been playing with it a bit.. trying to get my LG 30" to go over 75hz..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STEvil

Basically yes, you can take the catleap PCB and attach it to different monitors.

However it requires some rather intricate details in hardware knowledge to get anywhere other than a black screen..

The other alternative is an EDID editor and a couple other programs: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...IQ-Downscaling

I've been playing with it a bit.. trying to get my LG 30" to go over 75hz..

---

can you actually get your LG 30" up to 75hz? thats not bad if you can, if so what res is it running at 75hz? i read a little of that IQ downscaling thing but it didn't sound ideal... Also getting hold of the 2B PCB seems to be the problem, without buying a whole catleap with the 2B already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_G

haha, i was waiting for X79 to pop back into the frame, with your resources and what your trying to do its the only solution that makes sense i believe. i guess we will see once you test it all again. i still think 3 x PPP is the max i would go to, 5 x PPP is just so wide, i know it creates amazing immersion in the game but if it impedes the performance so that you have to run less resolution or frame rate then what is the point? if only there was a 30" catleap at 2560x1600 that could do 100+hz. i also hope the consumer market gets to see BIG Kepler to drive these awesome set ups:P

I was doing some reading on QuadHD and 4K HDTV's last night which gives me hope that some time in the next few years we will have all this taken care of without all this experimenting and testing. If i could get a 32" Quad HD or 4K monitor with 120hz then that is primo! Right now though they all cost too much and they only have much bigger screens, like 55" plus, as well as strange implementations of 3D, passive or glasses free meaning possibly not real 120hz at that res.

also, with these catleaps, its this 2B PCB that allows them to be overclocked, is it possible to get hold of this PCB and ghetto it onto another panel, ie 30" IPS etc?

---

Ya, if 5x1 doesn't work I know the 3x1 setup works really well. Used that for a good half year.

As for the super hi-res display's I have a few reservations. They will most certainly be 60 Hz LCD's. Never been a fan of 60 Hz, and the displays will have all of the pitfalls of slow pixel response times IMO. Not only that, there is no such display connection that can run 4K resolution at 120 Hz. So you;d be back to running multiple displayport inputs into the same monitor. Does that bring Eyefinity/Surround and all the associated problems back into the loop? Remains to be seen. I think a nice super high resolution screen at 120 Hz is many many years away. Super high resolution 60 Hz screens that are actually "affordable" IE: $5K or less are still years away.

I'd say the absolute perfect display would be a 32" 16:9 or even 2.35:1 OLED running 4k resolution and 120 Hz via a single cable like Displayport 1.3 if they ever come out with such a thing. One can only dream.

I forgot how awesome the Samsung's are de-bezeled with a 6 millimeter (under 1/4 inch) gap border:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ANY0004-12.jpg

I found that even using single link DVI connection of the 7970 Lightnings (165 MHz), I can get around 75 Hz out of the 700D (right landscape monitor). So it will still be better than 60 Hz and not as noticeable as it will be an end screen on the 5x1 setup. Eyefinity is great in that it will allow four screens to run at 120Hz and an odd ball screen to run at a lower Hz.

This is the Vega monitor assembly line, five Samsung's to de-bezel and mount. Four Catleap's to put back-together :) :

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ANY0005-12.jpg


So far in testing 3x1 Samsung's the Quad-Fire 7970's are working great. More to follow on 5x1 testing.

Are they the 23" or 27" Samsungs? And yes it seems as though they are the most suitable monitor to debezel.... If they are the 23" version what is your impression of the viewing width per screen, IIRC I think its about 385mm, is it too narrow, does it impede your viewing at all or feel as though its crowding your view? The bezels are so narrow that I guess it doesn't matter, all melds into one after a while.

The 23". 5x1 27" would be just way too big. I don't know what I was thinking with the 5x1 Catleap idea. The bezel gap's are only 6mm (just under 1/4 inch), so they aren't even noticeable playing a game. Really the only drawback with using the Samsung's is on dark images you can start to see the viewing angle limitations.

Got the Big Bang setup up. This has been a great motherboard to work with and the build quality is fantastic. This is the first motherboard this year out of 4 or 5 that I have setup that has detected both keyboards and a working mouse in the BIOS on the first try. Using BIOS 1.4B2 at the moment and haven't had a single hitch.

The Gatling gun VRM heat-sink is pretty subdued and looks decent. The ammo heat-sink does look pretty cheesy in pictures but in real life it looks a tad better. The tips actually look like real brass, but in pictures the whole thing looks like plastic. Although if I stick with the board I will most likely get water blocks so that will all be moot.

Even the X79 RAID was easy to get into and setup if you have the proper drivers. Something I learned the hard way with the RIVE!

UEFI is a pleasure to work with and nicely laid out. Both MSI and Gigabyte have great BIOS's now, easily up to par with Asus.


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ANY0001-18.jpg


As for the 5x1 Display setup, having issues with all of the monitors being detected/displayed. Even in regular desktop mode, haven't even gotten to Eyefinity yet. I have 24 gauge super high quality Display Port cables arriving tomorrow so hopefully this will get resolved.

May I ask Vega, whats the name of the stand you are using... or where did you get it? The setup looks amazing! :D

I wonder if I should get paid for this? :D


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ga/Vega5x1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega

I wonder if I should get paid for this? :D


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ga/Vega5x1.jpg

---

god damn!!!! I will pay you to build it if you pay for all the parts :P that looks stunning!!!!! I can't even begin to imagine sitting in front of that! truly awesome piece of work Vega, the envy of all XS i would say.

EDIT: I've just changed my mind about 5 x Portrait, you have converted me!!! and these 23" monitors are pretty cheap too so its not that crazy!

I'd say that with this thin bezels it looks rather acceptable :up: even to me (hater of them in multimonitor setups) :)

That's friggin awesome Vega. Now let's see some games on it.

That looks amazing! Do you service overseas :D

I have some great news, using the modified .sys file that ToastyX has made, I can clock a 1080P 120 Hz monitor to over 100 Hz with single link DVI connection! :eek: All hope is not lost for the Lightning's...

Now I have my whole 5x1 setup running 100+ Hz (100 Hz now, can squeeze some more Hz out of it with some patience).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega

I wonder if I should get paid for this? :D


*snip*

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Makes me moan... that looks delicious. A G15 keyboard with that background would look sick.

It's a good thing Tahiti has a monster pixel clock as I've found I am able to push some serious bandwidth over single link DVI and my monster 24 gauge DVI cable:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...20HzSL-DVI.jpg

That took me a few hours of tweaking timing's. I am literally within .02 MHz of not being able to run 120 Hz on my 700D. (256 MHz seems to be the absolute pixel clock limit on SL-DVI). It was a real nail biter edging back and forth with getting those timings to work. So now my entire Eyefinity setups is rolling along nicely at a buttery smooth 5400x1920 @ 120 Hz. Look's like the four Lightning's just may be keepers!

Just wondering have you considered going with 3x Optoma 720 1280x800 120Hz short throw projectors in portrait rear projection ($1500 each) on a purpose built curved Plexiglass screen? (2400x1280 Native Nividia/ATI surround or 3200x1280 with 4 projectors using Eyefinity or a hardware based monitor extender from Mviewtech for Nvidia which can also support 120Hz 3d!)
Thats what Im considering for my next upgrade before Ivybridge-e comes out.
Combined with an edge blending solution, probably Mviewtech hardware based edge blending compatible with Nvidia 3d (instead of software based so that the desktop can still be used) This will create one seamless edge to edge image in a 82" wide x 30" high arc with 4 projectors or 65" wide x 30" high arc with 3 projectors.
The res given above is quite manageable by todays GPUs in SLI/Crossfire and you cant tell me that something the equivalent size of 3x24" monitors in Landscape isnt wide enough, especially when the screen is 30" high.. Imagine :) hmmmmmmmmmmm

See calcs below. Still need to work out optimum seating distance and PPI to make sure res is high enough but not too high for the optimum seating position!

http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...en%20calcs.jpg

Another different example below with front projection short throw projectors and a different approach to edge blending , though for me 800 vertical res isn't enough (and I think I would prefer the higher vertical res in portrait with this aspect anyway. Going with the rear projection means perfect monitor type quality image with no ambient light problems even if its not in an enclosure. The plexiglass has ambient light absorption properties to give a perfect picture even in well lit rooms or even in daylight!
Projector throw distance would be right down around minimum .5 of a meter so not very deep either! ;)
Im still working on the theory and looking for examples and components but I really think the perfect bezel-less solution can be done for under $5K now with these types of parts. Or even much less with cheaper $600 projectors!

Example front projection short throw

http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...LAenJqdg/3.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=sFTrndLQ9SA

http://www.pixelwix.com/proddetail.a...=PixelwarpSGL2


Plexiglas Hi-Def rear projetion screens are lightweight, durable, and offer exceptional performance. The diffusion technology enables the use of short throw and off-axis projection while providing optimal contrast. Hi-Def can also be used outdoors. Largest Sheet size is 81" x 144".

http://www.spyeglass.com/Plexiglas.html

PS3 120" example of rear projection.

PS3 120" example of rear projection.
http://youtu.be/Z2896D5G3Sw?t=6m40s


Come on Vega... You know you want to try it! ;)

Heya, I have look extensively into multi-projector curved screen setups with edge blending software. I'll type some random thoughts as they come to me:

Firstly is the resolution of 120 Hz projectors which are 720P and quite low.
Stay away from software edge blending as all it does it cause problems.
Of course the size of the screen is relative to how close you sit to it. Bigger isn't always better, especially the larger the image the less powerful the light of the projector creating the larger image.
I've never seen any projected (front or rear) image that will have the clarity, brightness and motion qualities of a 120 Hz LCD. Just isn't going to happen.
Required to sit in a dim/dark room.
Required to have a large space behind the screens if rear projection, or a large space in front of the screens if front projection. With front projection you run into physical issues with the projectors. How close will they be to your head? 3+ projectors put off a LOT of heat and noise. For someone like me that is used to computing in silence, that is a huge issue.
Projectors usually have higher input lag and not favorable motion blur compared to fast 120Hz TN panels.
Re-occurring maintenance costs with bulb life. Not a trivial issue when you have three or more $300 bulbs to replace every ~1500 hours.
Brightness that dim's over time/use.

It's great if you want to play multi-player games with buddies in your room all the time, not really worth if for solo computer gaming. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega

Heya, I have look extensively into multi-projector curved screen setups with edge blending software. I'll type some random thoughts as they come to me:

Firstly is the resolution of 120 Hz projectors which are 720P and quite low.
Stay away from software edge blending as all it does it cause problems.
Of course the size of the screen is relative to how close you sit to it. Bigger isn't always better, especially the larger the image the less powerful the light of the projector creating the larger image.
I've never seen any projected (front or rear) image that will have the clarity, brightness and motion qualities of a 120 Hz LCD. Just isn't going to happen.
Required to sit in a dim/dark room.
Required to have a large space behind the screens if rear projection, or a large space in front of the screens if front projection. With front projection you run into physical issues with the projectors. How close will they be to your head? 3+ projectors put off a LOT of heat and noise. For someone like me that is used to computing in silence, that is a huge issue.
Projectors usually have higher input lag and not favorable motion blur compared to fast 120Hz TN panels.
Re-occurring maintenance costs with bulb life. Not a trivial issue when you have three or more $300 bulbs to replace every ~1500 hours.
Brightness that dim's over time/use.

It's great if you want to play multi-player games with buddies in your room all the time, not really worth if for solo computer gaming. ;)

---

Interesting thoughts to consider, but I think I have considered all those issues.

Are you forgetting each projector is only going to be doing roughly a 30" high x 25" wide image which is not very much. At the close range I'll be using them they will have plenty of brightness and the rear projection screen enhances the contrast which is already pretty good on the Q2 or 720/750 projectors. The 720/750 have been purpose designed as a gaming projector and measured with ZERO input lag, not sure about the Q2 but its only new and Im still researching other possibilities too.

The image quality ive seen from the Q2 and 720/750 have all been very good as far as I can see on youtube, and that PS3 video above is done with the rearpro material I want to use and I think it looks great, but I think his 120" is too big especially for the space Im trying to use it in and the seating distance I want to use.

As mentioned above Im going for something thats akin to a massive curved hires LCD monitor. I dont want it to look anything like front projection which often looks washed out and I dont want it too big. I have a hires native 1080p sony projector that ive tried to use as a front projector for games and know thats it not ideal, even though its designed for 300" image, even at 100" it wasnt good enough for what I want and seating distance is an issue with the low res 1080p blown up at that size. (the input lag was actually ok with this projector too with all correction software switched off.)

Thats why I plan on sitting as close as possible without being able to see the pixels, so it doesnt need to be 120". I dont want my simulations to be bigger than real life either as its a bit disorienting... It might look cool to go big, but the real immersion is in creating life size images with good peripheral vision which is why im going for curved screen with a slightly higher vertical res that you get in portrait surround!

The screen material comes in three different models with different gain. High, for outdoor full sun - medium, for normal indoor lighting and low gain for studio lighting with enhanced contrast. The screens are purpose built for this type of application with short throw lenses too, with micro lenses and dispersion tech to eliminate hot spots and improve contrast. Especially on the low gain studio screen. I plan on using the projectors at a depth of only 50cm to the rear which i dont see as a massive problem to accomodate.

Ill get samples of medium and low gain material and use a single projector for testing in the area I plan to use it before going full scale. ;)

The lamps are LED 20,000 hr for the Q2 and $195 for 4000hrs for the 720/750 which is fine. The noise output is actually very low on these projectors at only 30-34db full bright and under 30db in eco mode. Being at the rear, noise shouldnt be a problem.

As for edge blending, the demos ive seen all look pretty good to me though I do know software based has issues with standard 2d desktop which is why I'll probably go with a hardware based solution from mviewtech which also happens to be compatible with nvidia 3d surround! ;)

I might start out with 3 projectors and forgo the curved screen to start and have a single flat 60" wide screen which will have an aspect ratio of 1.88 which is only slightly wider than 16:9 (15:8) so distortion shouldnt be a problem.

Also I dont want to go anymore than 100" or I will loose what Im trying to achieve here. Projectors today are far better than they used to be regarding blacks, contrast and brightness, especially if you talking about DLP v2 tech that Im looking at here. The cheap $600 projectors do a better job than my old $5k sony 1080p at 100"!

If there was a 2.35 Aspect ratio single LCD screen or projector for a decent price with even 2K res i would absolutley go with it but they just arent feasable for home use yet. The Mviewtech is $2500 for a 3 channel hardware edge blending box. There are other much cheaper software options too..

I guess what im trying to do is get a desktop hires, wide multi-screen gaming experience without vertical bezels. I dont want a 200" image as its too big.

Sure this stuff would be capable of probably a 200" image easily which is why I think it should scale well down to 80"-100" for desktop use at about 1.5-2M distance i want. or even 65" with 3 projectors.

I think 1280 vertical x 800 horizontal res per projector would be the minimum limit for high enough res at this distance. A standard 24" 1920x1080 monitor has 91.79 PPI and im trying to keep the PPI above 40PPI which is a high enough PPI so that you cant see the pixels at 2M viewing distance.

Im still running some of the maths on it but a 30" x 25" image (per projector) has a .65mm Dotpitch and 38.7DPI which is right on the limit for what the human eye can resolve at 2M with 20/20 vision.

So as you can see its a trade off for getting the benefit of the size without having to sit too far away. If money was no object I would probably try for a 6 projector 120" screen but thats probably starting to head towards $15k!

Keep the thoughts coming though because Im sure there's something I havent considered!

Definitely make a build log as that sounds quite interesting! The way I figure it, it comes down to eliminating the bezels. But is the bezel problem really that huge of a deal? Granted, of course we would all like bezel'less curved screens of perfection. But you have to go a long way just to eliminate bezels.

Take my setup for example. Yes I've had to do quite a bit of custom work to get bezel gap's less than 1/4 inch. But that small of bezel's really isn't noticeable when playing games. Granted, when they come out with a 40" 4K true 120Hz OLED monitor my multi-screen days are over!

I haven't really looked into projectors in a few years. Are LED light sources putting out decent pictures? I remember just a couple of years ago they were pretty much garbage in projectors.

My largest "issue" is the 720P. That is a pretty darn low resolution. The only way I'd personally consider that resolution was if I ran maybe five of them in portrait with edge-blending hardware. But of course no edge blending software/hardware is perfect and will "blur/distort" where the images merge. Some say that can be as distracting as having a thin monitor bezel.

3x 720P/800P screens are only 3 mil pixels, or about 50% more than a 1080P screen. But like you said if you plan to sit around six feet away, the resolution won't be as big of concern. But then again you will lose some of the "immersion" factor of sitting closer. Text might be an issue on that large of a screen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega

Definitely make a build log as that sounds quite interesting! The way I figure it, it comes down to eliminating the bezels. But is the bezel problem really that huge of a deal? Granted, of course we would all like bezel'less curved screens of perfection. But you have to go a long way just to eliminate bezels.

Take my setup for example. Yes I've had to do quite a bit of custom work to get bezel gap's less than 1/4 inch. But that small of bezel's really isn't noticeable when playing games. Granted, when they come out with a 40" 4K true 120Hz OLED monitor my multi-screen days are over!

I haven't really looked into projectors in a few years. Are LED light sources putting out decent pictures? I remember just a couple of years ago they were pretty much garbage in projectors.

My largest "issue" is the 720P. That is a pretty darn low resolution. The only way I'd personally consider that resolution was if I ran maybe five of them in portrait with edge-blending hardware. But of course no edge blending software/hardware is perfect and will "blur/distort" where the images merge. Some say that can be as distracting as having a thin monitor bezel.

3x 720P/800P screens are only 3 mil pixels, or about 50% more than a 1080P screen. But like you said if you plan to sit around six feet away, the resolution won't be as big of concern. But then again you will lose some of the "immersion" factor of sitting closer. Text might be an issue on that large of a screen.

---

In actual fact what I'll probably end up doing when I get a dedicated office back again in my next house is 27" x 3 2560x1440 for office work on one wall and this setup Im planning now on another. PC setup in corner so I can have normal desktop productivity where bezels dont matter and the ultimate surround gaming experience on the other wall.. Will probably endup with a dedicated sim chair and sit the whole thing lower down so I can get back into my driving sims as well as flying!

For now if I can get away with it I might even try just 3 projectors setup with separate 40" (30x25") Rear projection screens that butt against each other that I can rotate landscape and portrait and end up with almost zero gap and no edge blending to worry about! ;) These things tend to evolve with me, much like my system did over a year or 2.. :)

LED just this year has made the leap it needed to, especially with Pico DLP engines in pico and pocket projectors. They are much much better than LCD. They are now viable for desktop use at sizes under 60" per projector even in 3D. The one Im most interested in that I will probably get is this one http://www.projectorcentral.com/Vivitek-Qumi_Q2.htm which has 300Lumens and 2500:1 contrast which is good enough for gaming at small sizes under 60" even in front projection, little lone the rear setup im planning which should give better blacks, contrast and dynamic range than front projection gives you. Its only $500 bucks to give it a try with one so what the hell! :) The other great thing about them is they are designed for short throw between .5-2M so perfect for this scenario with rear projection.

id basically go from this below....

http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...w/IMG_1975.JPG

and end up with something looking like this.. (the opaque white overlay)
This is from my original build before the baby took over my office!

http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/...een%20size.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega

I wonder if I should get paid for this? :D


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ga/Vega5x1.jpg

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Dude, this 5x1 setup is what I messaged you about a few months back and you were negative about it, lol. Now you have me back in the 5x1 120Hz game!

Can you please, PLEASE tell us how you de-bezeled those Samsungs?

Hey Vega, any chance you can show us a shot of the monitors all mounted from behind?

Is there anything back there that should be kept out of reach from little hands? (eg: Children)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UrbanSmooth

Dude, this 5x1 setup is what I messaged you about a few months back and you were negative about it, lol. Now you have me back in the 5x1 120Hz game!

Can you please, PLEASE tell us how you de-bezeled those Samsungs?

---

If you take a look at my 3x 23" 120Hz thread there are pictures and directions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Acesi7

Hey Vega, any chance you can show us a shot of the monitors all mounted from behind?

Is there anything back there that should be kept out of reach from little hands? (eg: Children)

---

Yes and Yes. I should have some pictures and videos up this week as I just got back from vacation.

I need to see some more videos on that setup, V. That Skyrim video just doesn't cut it.

Skyrim video was on an old setup. ;) No videos of new setup yet, will get some up this week.

I'm going to hold you to that, V. Looking forward to benchmarks, GPU VRAM usage, GPU core usage, GPU frequencies, etc. The whole shebang. :)

For those interested in what the back of the setup looks like:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuUDvybfbU&feature=youtu.be


I am considering putting on a black felt cloth back to the whole setup once I get everything just right.

How does almost 4-way 99% GPU usage sound? :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyQoF...ature=youtu.be

Sounds like a start. Looks like a lot of ridiculous maintenance in the back there. Anyway of streamlining all of that?

lol streamlining? That's about as streamlined a setup like this is going to get. ;)

May i ask what monitors you actually used (Model number) please?

Four Samsung S23A750D and one S23A700D.

And what was that stand again? With the catleaps on it, it looks like it might be perfect for my U3011s. Especially perfect if I can switch the center one to landscape in 30 seconds for gaming and in another 30 seconds put it back to portrait for work...

It's the WSGG.com one under shop -> monitor stands.

Sweet, Guild Wars 2 is working pretty awesome in 4-way crossfire 5x1! I should have a video up this weekend.

How are you liking the Sniper 3? Any issues?

It's running great. It looks like 8x PCI-E 3.0 is fast enough to keep up. Hopefully that holds true when I get all these Lightnings to 1300+ MHz core and/or the 89xx series releases.

Guild Wars 2 runs incredibly well 4-Way Crossfire 5x1 Eyefinity, especially for a Beta!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nHKq...ature=youtu.be

one question...

when i had the reference 7970 i had some fliker in desktop 2d @120hz (single s27a950d)

with the lightning you have the same issues?

Nope, no flicker.

Dude that looks awesome! crazy how much better they look once de-bezeled! makes you wonder why they even bother!

My 8x Vertex-4 RAID 0 gaming array using the integrated LSI 2308 host bus controller on the ASRock Extreme 11:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...23-23-26AM.png

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...20818-0321.png

Games load pretty fast. :D

one question vega....

can you tell me your monitor setting?

i have a s27a950d..... and i want to share with you my setting...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega

My 8x Vertex-4 RAID 0 gaming array using the integrated LSI 2308 host bus controller on the ASRock Extreme 11:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...23-23-26AM.png

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...20818-0321.png

Games load pretty fast. :D

---

Thats insanely fast! I love the look of that LSI controller and it's one of the main draw cards for me considering a change to the ASRock E11.. How is the rest of the Board/system going compared to your rampage build? Any disadvantages?

Little video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jhrP7C3Cdg

Asus VG278HE 144 Hz 27" 1080P and Samsung S23A750D 23" 120 Hz comparison:


The Asus comes in a nice thick sturdy box and is well protected. Asus does a nice job on presentation. The monitor has a nice black gloss bezel that is matte on the inside edge to alleviate any glare from the screen. The stand is very sturdy and has a real nice height adjustability. As a tall bastard, I think this may be my first monitor that I've had since the HP ZR30W that can adjust to my viewing height without having to prop up anything underneath it. That is a huge plus!

The base of the stand is also gloss black, but alas it has a very large IMO silly 3D symbol. The monitor also swivels and tilts which is nice. Three connection options (really only one as the first one is the only one that can run 144 Hz), DL-DVI, HDMI and VGA D-Sub 15. Not sure who or why anyone would use the VGA connection. One thing I dislike about the connections is the DVI port is very close to the body of the monitor. My big-daddy 24 gauge Monoprice high quality cable barely fits on there at an angle. Feels like it's going to break that DVI connection. No need for it to be so close to the back of the monitor.

The screen is a matte screen, but it does not have a large amount of diffusion and sparkle like an LG IPS panel. If the Apple cinema display (which has the glossiest screen I've used) was a 10, and a U2711 was the worst matte nastiness at 1, I'd rate this panel's anti-glare around a 3.5. I prefer glossier panels as will be discussed below. The Samsung isn't quite as reflective as the Apple, but it is still pretty strong at an 8.5. I would rate the Yamakasi Catleap about a 7. So to break gloss levels down:

Apple Cinema Display: 10
Samsung 120 Hz line: 8.5
Gloss Catleap's and variants: 7
Asus 144 Hz: 3.5
LG IPS (like U2711) 1

The on-screen display on the Asus could be better. It feels a bit clunky in the manner you switch different configuration options. The key's are tactile and work good. Nothing beats good old tactile buttons. The touch-sensitive buttons on the Samsung can be quite annoying. The power LED on the monitor is ingeniously lit underneath the bottom right portion of the bezel. This means it is not in your view-able area in a normal sitting position. I don't like bright LED's shining right at me on the edge of a screen. I usually darken those out with a permanent marker.

Now the Asus does have some back-light bleed around the edges, mostly on the bottom but the bleed does not extend out far. I would rate BLB low on my priority list as it usually does not affect normal viewing and I rarely view anything with very dark or solid black images. My unit did come with zero dead nor stuck pixels. Hopefully that is a good sign that Asus does some quality control on these panels as they are priced fairly high. Of course I could have always gotten lucky in the panel lottery.

Back to the anti-glare coating. While using the monitor in the day-lit room here, it was a pleasure to really not see any reflection besides a minimal diffused glow that was barely visible. On the other hand, the Samsung next to it reflects quite a bit and can be quite distracting. Gloss screens should really only be used in pretty light controlled environments. Now here comes the trade-off. There is always a trade off when it comes to LCD tech. While you virtually eliminate the reflections with the Asus, you also lose a lot of the subjective "pop" and "wet-look" of the colors and the deeper perceived blacks. Blacks just look a lot better on the Samsung. Now I didn't take any fancy colorimeter readings or any of that jazz, this is entirely subjective of someone who has tested dozens and dozens of monitors down through the years.

The Samsung has a bit of a better picture quality. The better blacks, the colors pop more and the contrast just seems to edge out the Asus. Whether that is entirely up to the gloss coating or Samsung wizardry I do not know. So that brings us to pixel pitch. 1920x1080 at 27" just doesn't work for me if I sit too close. You can clearly see that text is rougher and sharpness is decreased at this large of a size. Everything appears clearer and sharper on the 23" Samsung, allowing you to sit close. Now you can alleviate some of that problem with the Asus simply by pushing the monitor further back on your desk, but then you lose the "immersion" factor that having a larger screen is suppose to provide. For a normal viewing distance from the eyes of around 24-30 inches, 27-30" monitors should solely be the realm of 1440 or 1600P. Although, the larger pixels are more noticeable in Windows and in web pages than they are in games. Since in games, there usually isn't a lot of text or compartmentalized information all over the place.

Text size in a side-by-side:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...PICT0007-1.jpg


So the big question: How is 144 Hz ?!?! Honestly, the jump from 120 Hz to 144 Hz is not as great as I was expecting. Definitely getting into the point of diminishing returns. I tried to capture any "measurable" differences using Pixperpan and other means but they did not "pan out". Pixperan would crash always at 144 Hz but would work fine at 120 Hz. So I could only get reading for the Samsung. I then set upon taking high film speed shots of each monitor in Skyrim during the AFK fast camera spinning. Due to monitor cloning limitations that set both to 120 Hz, I was unable to do a side-by-side in one shot. Also due to different LED back-light modulation, high ISO settings produced view-able images on one monitor and not the other. Change the ISO settings and the monitors would flip-flop. I did not get any conclusive images. So that brings it back to my subjective observations. As a pretty good long time FPS player I think I have a decent grasp of how a monitor "handles".

Just for a point of reference, let's say I feel a jump from 60 Hz to 120 Hz produces about a 50% increase in the images "smoothness". Of course the faster the image is displayed, the % of return in smoothness feel will decrease exponentially. While an increase from 120 Hz to 144 Hz is a mathematical 20% speed increase, I would put my subjective increase in smoothness feel around 5 to 8%. Now whether that is getting into placebo territory, or simply the larger image versus the 23" Samsung is making a "perceptual" difference, I could not say. I would honestly say though after playing BF3 and Guild Wars 2 (which is silky smooth) at 144 Hz and 144+ FPS, that the Asus does have a small edge on the Samsung. If you are expecting this monitor to have a large difference in play-ability over 120 Hz due to it's extra 24 Hz, you will be disappointed.

I also did notice on scrolling web pages using smooth scroll that the Asus smeared just a tad less than the Samsung. I truly got spoiled with the FW900 as smooth scrolling text, even fast was crystal clear. LCD'd don't handle that too well. Although, this is the LCD that has handled for me smooth scrolling text the best. Even a somewhat quick IPS screen like my 120 Hz Catleap smeared pretty bad and did not make viewing smooth scrolling text all that enjoyable.

Input lag:

SMTT 2.0, ISO 500, Samsung left Asus Right.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...SANY0017-4.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ANY0008-10.jpg

I would say the Asus starts a new frame about 8 milliseconds faster than the Samsung. I believe the last I read the Samsung panels are around 12-15ms of input lag, which would put my readings pretty close to Prad's rating of the 120 Hz version of the Asus at ~4ms. That is pretty quick and basically zero input lag.

Aesthetically, I would give the nod to the Samsung's. Especially the 950D line. Full brushed aluminum/gloss black enclosures, with nice clear/black gloss trim. I think they are very stylish. While not unattractive, the Asus is your pretty typical black square rectangle that virtually all monitors adhere to.

Images of the Samsung next to the Asus:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...a/PICT0013.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...a/PICT0011.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...PICT0002-1.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...PICT0009-1.jpg


So where does the 144 Hz Asus fit in the grand scheme of things? Until we get the perfect display technology, you will always have to compromise with LCD. You just have to rate the priorities of the monitors design to fit you. Vega's crude and simple rating system:

In order of: Samsung S23A750D, Asus VG278HE, 2B Yamakasi Catleap.

Image Quality: |<- - - - - - 7 - - ->| |<- - - - - 6 - - - ->| |<- - - - - - - - 9 ->|
Motion Smoothness: |<- - - - - - - 8 - ->| |<- - - - - - - - 9 ->| |<- - - - - - 7 - - ->|
Text/OS: |<- - - - - - 7 - - ->| |<- - - - - - 6 - - ->| |<- - - - - - - - 9 ->|
Games: |<- - - - - - 7 - - ->| |<- - - - - - - 8 - ->| |<- - - - - - - 8 - ->|
Aesthetics: |<- - - - - - - 8 - ->| |<- - - - - - 7 - - ->| |<- - - - - 6 - - - ->|

Totals (As a gamer, motion has 2x score weight): Samsung (7.5) - Asus (7.5) - 2B Catleap ( 7.66).

For an overall monitor that does a lot of things well and nothing really bad (besides a flimsy stand that will be corrected in upcoming versions), I'd still have to give the nod to the 120 Hz Catleap. It has a great IPS picture and 1440P resolution to go along with it's decent motion. Short of getting yourself a FW900, the Asus will do you quite well for competitive gaming. I don't think there is a better LCD out there for that. Just don't sit too close to it. ;) One thing to note about the 2B Catleap and it's future Overlord Tempest OC models: only select hardware configs can run it optimally. You see, a single overclocked GTX 680 or 7970 can handle the 1080P Asus or Samsung fairly well. With ~85% more pixels on the Catleap, not so much. This forces you into SLI or crossfire. SLI and NVIDIA are ruled out as they have adapted a 330 MHz pixel clock limit in their drivers and refuse to budge. This limits your Catleap to around 82 Hz. Really, the only combination of hardware and (modified drivers mind you) in order to "over clock" the DL-DVI port is the AMD 79xx series. And to push that many pixels to do a 1440P Catleap justice required at least two of them.

The sweet spot for optimal gaming for a decent budget is an IB CPU, 2x 7970's and an Overclock Catleap or it's upcoming variations. Let me know if you have any questions. :thumb:

Selling everything Vega?

That's what happens when you spend money you don't have. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Levesque

Selling everything Vega?

That's what happens when you spend money you don't have. :)

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Nope, moving soon and I don't want to move all of this stuff. Planning on four of the 89xx series when they launch and a 4k display. Don't worry Levesque, your system will always be inferior to mine as they always have been in the past. So nothing will change there in the future. :up:

Are you guys just joking or is this serious? :confused:

Anyway, killer setup Vega!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by .::NeO::.

Are you guys just joking or is this serious? :confused:

Anyway, killer setup Vega!

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No, Levesque always stalks my threads as no one ever visits his. Jealousy is the sincerest form of flattery. :yepp:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega

No, Levesque always stalks my threads as no one ever visits his. Jealousy is the sincerest form of flattery. :yepp:

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Ahh, got it. Sorry I didn't know the whole story, I'm not one that post much, but I'm following your thread since it started and I find it very inspiring, plus the knowledge and tecniques you used on your multi-monitor setup and on your geothermal/ambient liquid cooling solution are outstanding.

Again, great work :up:

LoL I guess I'm a stalker too then. ;)

Vega you always do some very interesting builds and buy the best gear that's for sure.
Levesque buys some nice gear too but his taste in what looks good leaves a lot to be desired for me. But each to their own I say, we all have our own motivations and ideas of what the ultimate rig should look like. :)

I gained a lot of inspiration for my build from you too, so keep up the good work!

[quote=callsign_vega;5115929]i wonder if i should get paid for this? :d


Attachment 130475

what monitors are these?

[QUOTE=F3RR3T;5141779]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by callsign_vega

i wonder if i should get paid for this? :d


Attachment 130475

what monitors are these?

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Sammys or Catleaps, check the earlier posts in the thread.

Vega, your attention please. It's time to go bezel-less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikde5eZWJxw