Don't know what you are on about but performance of Zacate in its segment which is targeting net-books below 500$ is more than enough and any day better than Atom.Quote:
Originally Posted by kl0012
Don't know what you are on about but performance of Zacate in its segment which is targeting net-books below 500$ is more than enough and any day better than Atom.Quote:
Originally Posted by kl0012
SB IGP is not a revelation by any means since it will be humillated by the 400-480SP monster that is Llano(and not bottlenecked by low frequency cpu's, 2.5Ghz+ dual/quad setups). They just showed their IGP performance earlier, just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by flyck
At mínimum 2-3 times faster than fully enabled SB IGP.
Why does this seem to my like the 780G hype all over again...Quote:
Originally Posted by kl0012
Zacate seems pretty balanced i mean a 500mhz 80 shader gpu with a dual core cpu that can do 90% of Athlon II performance running on 1.6Ghz is good but then the 1Ghz Ontario part with most likely lower GPU speed and performance is a eye sore.
I hope tablets are released with the Zacate avatar and not Ontario because there are things online that 1Ghz dual core Athlon II cant deal with properly. There have been kinda tablets based on CULV's before so its not a far fetched idea, then again Ontario is a 9W part and Zacate a 18W part.
it was ontario that was playing avp right? i thought it was the same as zacate only lower powered?
i know llano will be faster(spec wise at least), but it will also be later by at least a quarter. SB will be the first ondie gpu that will be better than the low standalone graphic cards. (we don't know what anand tested, he isn't sure either. But what he tested was slightly better than the 5450.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
edit: the test was done on the Zacate. But we have no clue about the clockspeeds that it was running (some rumours) and we don't know the launchspeeds of ontario or Zacate. They can also trade more gpu for cpu or toy with such settings on the fly. As Anandtech mentionned gpu clock speeds are not written into stone and the drivers were not optimized yet, so there is enough still in the air for us to be suprised at launch (or the reverse ofcourse).
Tomorrow I'll do a test with my AII @1.6Ghz and disable 2 cores for the batman run.
Is that scene at the beginning?
That logic is flawed.Because you are comparing a NETBOOK 18W platform, with a desktop GODKNOWSHOWMANY watts platform.Quote:
Originally Posted by kl0012
And they`ve put this decent GFX ondie, because thats the thing netbooks lack ATM (besides slow ass in order cpu).
Remember that there are many different loads, many of which require GFX computation power more than CPU ones.
My point is, a multi billion dollar company (AMD) probably knows better what they put and most importantly WHY into their NETBOOK chip.
But if you constantly try to compare it to more expensive products you can pretend it has no value. Some folks get a little cranky about brand names. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaber
as big as the SB GPU hype :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Actually no, if you look around most people where suprised how it performed, no pre hype no nothing. Most people focused on CPU performance for SB and its still the main focus.Quote:
Originally Posted by duploxxx
For amds fusion lineup on the other hand everyone had gone nuts about the APU starting back then with the AVP demo. Yet the first numbers we got where released just now and without the screwup on the side of amd we wouldn't even had any B:AA numbers.
Anyway thats not my main point, what I meant with 780G hype was that people only focused on the "superb" IGP performance, but basically that changed nothing on the adoption, despite having 2x or even 3x the performance of a G35 back then.
Gaming gets way to hyped, epsecial for the intented platform.
Imho the most important factor: Power Consumption, Video(HD) acceleration, Webacceleration in that order. Gaming is nice to have but absolutely not neccecary.
i think ive seen this movie,and it was sooo lame.just like what you guys do to every AMD/Intel thread
the 4 AMD gang members are leaning against the wall,when 4 intel gang members walk up the street
"the rumble music starts" the amd gang starts walking towards the intel gang,because they have no right
to be here.as they walk toward them,they lean slightly forward and begin snapping their fingers to the
music,and then the perfectly executed choreography begins,and the comical dance punches are thrown
its going to get ugly,and i dont mean the fighting i mean the ugly ridiculousness of the whole thing.
(switch it around for intel threads)
the snapping, dancing gangsters
always the same guys that ruin these threads for us .thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by radaja
i have found this thread pleasent compared to earlier threads? i dont think anyone has ruined it? kl0012 made very good points, and his questioning has proved correct. anand and amd realized the error and fixed it with an update. maybe i am missing something here?
If the CPU performs "90% of C2D" then it should be OK. Core 2 set the performance threshold for modern computing, anything less will not be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by kl0012
there are always people that are never going to be satisfied...
AMD should have compared Zacate to any intel CULV Arrandale part (18W)...when AMD would have said 10X the performance on the grafic side...maybe some guys here would have been happy...:rofl:
But AMD is a decent company...the went with a mainstream 35w Arrandale CPU...:ROTF:
for the size zacate is...and the grafic implemantation and whats doing grafic wise, it's a big plus to AMD :up:, if you can not recognized that...then dear Fan boy..get out of this thread...
when LLano shows up...same story...Sandy Bridge is going to rely on Nvidia type Optimus platform(more power consumption) if it can, to compete with LLano GPU...
AMD APUs are going to change things in the market, especially Ontario...;)
I dont think anyone verified this, but, Ontario and zacate are basically the same thing arent they ?
Which means, us overclockers could turn low end ontario chip into zacate with a push of a button :).
Would be a nice option to have when power isnt the issue.
well at least this platform will be able to deliver this video performance within a low power and low cost design. Intel is already adding/changing SB roadmap to counter this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
And there was nothing wrong with 780 after the initial 690 trial, this was finally a chipset that was able to deliver htpc needs, far far away from what Intel was able to deliver - or lets say not able to provide for just not even aero on an OS level :D
im really hoping that the gpu is super easy to overclock, i know alot of laptops dont have the right bios to do any OCing, but with CCC i hope overdrive is available for everyoneQuote:
Originally Posted by RaV[666]
I found this about Llano:
http://white-rabbit50.at.webry.info/...article_1.htmlQuote:
・Llano
４コア版
95W：3.6GHz+480sp(HD5570より上)
60W：3.0GHz+480sp(HD5570位)
45W：2.6GHz+400sp(HD5550位)
2コア版
75W：3.8GHz+240sp(HD5550位)
65W：3.4GHz+240sp
35W：3.0GHz+160sp(HD5530位)
20W：2.6GHz+160sp
interesting, 3.8GHz?? The highest dual-core now is what, 3.2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
If true 32nm looks to be helping out AMD in a big way thats more than half the tdp of Athlon II 620(4core 2.6ghz)Quote:
4 core 45W：2.6GHz+400sp(HD5550位)
Following that BD may have some very high clocks.
EDIT: Or is Llano 40nm??
Yes, until Q4 when Athlon II X2 270 3.4Ghz 65w appears.Quote:
Originally Posted by richierich
slaveondope
Llano is 32nm being done by GloFo. Ontario and Zacate by TMSC wich I think will have a refresh by Q4 2011 / Q1 2012 using their 28nm process, unless TSMC fail at execution again xD.
It's common knowledge that AMD squeeze more out of their nm shrinks than intel specially for power consumption (x4 955 --> x6 1090T same 45nm, even less power with the same tdp / i7 975 45nm --> i7 980X 32nm).
The 620 95w TDP is just fictional. We also have the 615e 2.5Ghz 45w.
If these are base clocks without turbo things will get very interesting shortly with both AMD and Intel seemingly releasing very good products :D:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
How reliable is that source?
**Edit The Ontario TDPs and clocks on the same page are different from the ones already announced
If those identifications are correct, the compititor for ULVC is llano and zacate 18W will be more or less obsolete. If this is true for that process, ontario/zacate really need to go to those fabs as soon as possible because TSMC 40nm sucks compared to that 32nm process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
Edit: the previous numbers of ontario were hokum, these probably also.Quote:
・Llano
2
20W：2.6GHz+160sp
・Ontario
18W：2.2GHz+80sp(HD5450位)
I really hope that those dualcores are native dualcores with only 240SP physical. That would make them cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
But I am confused. Llano seems to beat Phenom II in performance despite built in GPU. Bulldozer must have a considerable performance advantage to be justified. Could mean a very nice 2011. :)
Sorry mate can you be a little bit more specific? when you say obsolete, what do you exactly mean? obsolete as in there is no need for neither one on the CULV market?Quote:
Originally Posted by flyck
I just find that statement rather vague.
BTW my first post ever in here after 2 years worth of following up on XS... YAY!!!
・Bulldozer(8コア)
125W：3.6GHz
95W：3.4GHz
65W：3GHz
:O wow ....
+ all the Llano numbers are dual core only right ??? or are there some quad cores in the pipeline ????
I read it like he says that the 18w Zacate will be obsolete if there will be a 20W Llano with those specs listed. But, first, these are TDP numbers, Llano might be at 19W max in real world, while Zacate might be closer to ten. We can't know for sure. Besides, I think it's possible that the thermal margins in the calculations are a tad higher for Zacate.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
And then the most important thing, a Zacate 18W will be lots cheaper, probably more like an Atom. While Llano 20W will be more like an ULV-part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
It's pure speculation, don't trust it & don't spread it.:(
Quote:
Originally Posted by superrugal
alot is still speculative about everything on the Llano zacate ontario and zambezi parts ...
Quad, die shot was also quadQuote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Boris-
Indeed, zacate is optimized for low power, it can and will shut of more in times of less power needed. average consumption will be alot lower than ULV or llano(if figures are correct, which i don't believe for either of the chips described). But the performance of llano will at least be 18% due to clockspeeds and 100-250% on gpu due to sp and bandwidth. llano will be an improved thuban core while bobcat is slower then an x2 core. So for that area of notebooks, ULV SB and llano might be of more interest due to the performance and the relative small penalty in power for the added speed. Also i'm not sure Zacate was originally planned, it seems to be more an item to fill in a gap in the mobile market and i don't believe AMD will position 2 chips that close to eachother. (unless they could sell such a llano for a huge premium)
Llano is in the mid/high-end notebook area, zacate/ontario is more netbook/cheap notebook area. Two different products, they will not compete with eachother.
That's exactly right, CULV and netbooks do not compete against each other, they're entirely different market segments with different target products, that's why I didn't understand the previous comment of it being near obsolete even before its release. AMD, a multi-billion dollar company with chief designers and marketing executives of that caliber would never make such an atrocious mistake, making such speculations is fine, but one should always remain objective as to what these (cpus/apus) are...
They are products designed to target specific market segments where engineers design in order to create "a product lineup for each segment". I am not sure if even shareholders would be happy to be briefed that they're investing in colluding obsoleting products.
let me rephrase.llano/SB ULV which will be alot faster than Zacate while boasting a similar max tdp. So all zacate has is a lower price and better battery time in low load situations. (although the difference will not be that significant). If they can sell for each low end notebook a low priced low cost Zacate or a llano (higher cost) but huge profits (same range as ULV intels) they would be crazy to keep Zacate in that sector and loose llano sails (with higher profits). 18W on netbook is rather high, it is ontario that is mainly focussed on netbook and zacate on low power notebook to fill their current gap. Although i would expect that if llano is introduced for the low end they will start lowering the pwr requirements of zacate to scale them down to the upper end of netbook or really low power notebooks. (they just have to keep sure intel does not have lower cost chips for possible ulv notebook marketQuote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
Zacate is shown at 18W and the lowest Llano at 20W, but probably zacate will be 60-65% of the power needed by the Llano part, in real life, just because it was designed from ground up, different power management than the upgraded THuban core and better power gating.
So, in an application like Intel burn test, they may be close, because the Zacate cannot use it's improvements in power management/gating, but in real world usage, the difference will be consistent.
+1 for those comparing the 20W Llano to 18W Zacate
just cause max power is similar, does not mean average power will be anywhere near the same, although to be honest, i think alot of people would rather have the extra power at a hour or two of battery loss.
also keep in mind that Llano is 32nm and that is making a huge difference.
i really want to see some turbo details, fusion is looking o so sick.
So many people confuse power draw and heat production specifications.
You must realise that if cpu draws 40W of electrical power, 99,9% of it is output as heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stukov
First, the Llano specs seen in this thread are pure speculation. But let's pretend they are real. Then you still have different TDP ranges. And I'm sure that a Llano part at 2.6GHz will be a lot "hotter" than a 1.6GHz Zacate. You have much larger cores originating from chips developed with servers in mind against a very small chip made to be extremely efficient in perf/w. Even if Llano is power optimized it simply can't be cooler than Zacate.Quote:
Originally Posted by flyck
Even if there were a Llano at 20W TDP, it's still just TDP. Chips made at the same TDP can have significant differences in power consumption. The TDP-ranges are simply not in a resolution high enough for such comparisons.
In an poor attempt to explain let's pull some numbers out of my arse here.
18W TDP Zacate could mean 10W theoretical max, 7W real world max, 3w typical and 1w idle. A 20W Llano could mean 20W theoretical max, 15w real world max, 11w typical and 8w idle.
These numbers are of course pure fantasy, but my point is that TDP-ranges could mislead, one watt in theoretical max is enough to be put in a range with twice as high TDP number. And TDP don't show how efficient energy saving there is. A Zacate will probably have much better idle and low usage powers than Llano due to the very different bases for their design.
And then again, even if a normal Llano at 45-65w probably could be reasonably priced around 150-200usd for notebooks, a 20w ULV would be rare and thus priced a lot higher. At the same time Zacate and Ontario will be so cheap to produce that AMDs people could wipe their behinds with them if they had skin thick enough.
So, even IF a 2.6GHz Llano with 20W TDP existed. It would be much more expensive since the chips good enough would be rare, and it would probably use a considerable amount more power than a Zacate in real world, especially in idle and normal use.
And now your are counting low, probably more than that is heat, and the minuscule amount that isn't, is radiation that pretty soon will be heat anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanical Man
How are you so sure about Intel releasing Sandybridge low tdp product of about 18W to cannibalize Atom sales , could you provide links to your source of info.Quote:
Originally Posted by flyck
Indeed, almost every single millijoule of electrical power consumed by a circuit will turn into heat. Though, internal physical wear and tear of the interconnects will eat a very small portition of this. But in laymans terms, the machine will heat the room with about the exact same amount of energy as it consumes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stukov
In netbooks the Wifi controller alone can consume around 2-3 W, kb+touchpad+sound+usb+ethernet+... 5-10 W, too many W for the display, etc..
OEMs care if the CPU consumes 2500 mW or 4600 mW? Hell no. They care if they can get the platform power consumption down and get it cheap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Boris-
Just for the record... if you read my posts you would know that i allready said all that... I always mentioned if it were true (and i don't believe that) and that tdp is the same but zacate will have the advantage at lower loads.
@ other: 18W ULV cores exist now and will exist again with SB. Atom is nowhere near the 18W picture it isn't even in the same tdp range as ULV cores. Zacate will have stiff competition from much better performing parts who cosume only a tad more(yes cpu only the difference is big, but with everything else connected the difference is still the same but the overal powerdraw is bigger. so in % it is only a tad). (again referring to the 5times i allready mentionned if those figures would be correct and i don't believe it). This would imply that either you go performance llano/ULV or power zacate. These are 2 products relativly close to eachother where the lowest has the least margin. So if you are lucky and take a huge share of ulv the cpu is worthwile, but llano for that tdp will not as it will have almost no marketshare left (shares with ULV). If most people choose for performance in that sector the reverse is true. llano with huge margins will compete better and zacate will only supply the very few. which makes it a really nice market. Hence, i only expect Zacate to be released for this part of the market atm (while it still open due to bad graphics from intel) and will be downsized from then on (or boosted more to replace the ulv of AMD). Ontario will be the main focus of the platform and the prophet.
but since we don't even know the specs of Zacate, let alone llano which is sheduled alot later. Things will flow as they flow. I just believe Ontario (the very low power) part of the platform will know more success than Zacate which was demonstrated. Just hope that ontario isn't to much slower than Zacate.
You didn't say that. You said that differences in power usage "will not be that significant." I say you can't know that, similar TDPs can still mean very different power usage.Quote:
Originally Posted by flyck
Besides, a 20W Llano at 2.6GHz would be very rare, It would be expensive for a reason, that reason is supply. AMD won't have any trouble at all selling such a chip with high margins even with Zacate. The performance difference is quite big, there would be enough people willing to pay for those few chips capable of such low power at that speed.
Chips easy to produce are seldom expensive.
..demand and supply curves, and that my friend Boris is Fact...:):):) , so thank you for adding some sense back onto the thread.
I really find amusing how people post just for the sake of posting.:horse:, without knowing facts or even have knowledge of basic economic practices
supply and demand curves are nothing more than an abstract concept that attempts to explain an observed behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
They don't actually exist in nature.
What you are discussing is human approximations to future demand and attempting to calculate the optimal price; from which to collect the maximum amount of market share and profit.
Ideally to have excess funds with which to protect against an economic down turn.
Beyond that, any excess funds and/or profit is wasted; since it could be used to improve the business, products, or customer/employee loyalty.
Current i5/7 series and next gen Q2 SB will have indeed a cpu power advantage... thx to the turbo and HT. But the whole range is always compared as if it is faster, don't forget how much downclock is required to get this as a culv. But perhaps look at the price point, for i5-i7 cpu you will almost buy a whole ontario netbook :)Quote:
Originally Posted by flyck
The full list of culv chips listed on anandtech
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3737/i...d-reduces-size
that celeron-pentium and even i3 will have a very hard time against zacate, only i3 could have some multithread benefit, gpu wise they are all less even i5/7. It is already known that Intel will bring a special SB version (single core/ HT?) to counter this level.
Well you're absolutely right there, no point on arguing it, are you an economist?Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by duploxxx
Zacate is very interesting and i do think that i3 330UM will be quite a challenge for the Zacate. The U5400 vs Zacate will be interesting indeed the cache may also have have a impact of performance.
Now the U3400 is rated wrongly on AT its not 1.2Ghz its 1.0Ghz "Same freq as Ontario" U3400 does not seem to be much of a match for Zacate 1.6Ghz because it has 60% more freq.
So best comparison is U5400 vs Zacate and I3 330UM vs Zacate also all of them have their GPU's "max" at 500 MHz so gpu wise they maybe a bit on the lower side.
EDIT: Zacate is suppose to cost around $500 we have the followings laptops with CULV's and their prices:-
Acer Aspire One 753 U3400 - $449
TOSHIBA Satellite T235-S1350 U5400 - $599
Acer Aspire 1830Z-U514G50n U5400 - $549
Acer 1830T i3 Acer 1830T - $599
No, I teach programming and old school assembly code bumming to the best and the brightest students in my classes [and those with old school hands on imperative attitude]Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
The igp of Zacate is awesome to make up the cpu frequency bottleneck xD.
Batman Arkham Asylum 1024x768 High
Athlon II X4 620 2.6Ghz + HD3300 + sideport
14fps
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...00_2600mhz.jpg
Zacate 1.6Ghz dual core + 80SP igp
16fps
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...acate-8898.jpg
Anand
^set your cpu to 1.6ghz if you can (or use CnQ to limit it to a certain mhz) and see how bad the framerate drops then
I'll use K10STAT, just a moment.
Athlon II X4 620 @1.6Ghz + HD3300 + sideport
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...00_1600mhz.jpg
Seems to have enough juice with a dual core in this game.
Use K10stat and you can pick any multi under the default one.
As for Zacate,we should keep in mind it uses single ch. ddr3. So the results are really very very good.
If I change processor number in msconfig I can boot with just 2 cores right?
Also:
Cr@ptastic Atom Cedar Trail
1fps (anand article comments page6)
you might just want to set core affinity in task manager after you start up the game, i think that can work to limit it to 2 cores without much workQuote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
I did that, same fps, 13.
thanks Nintendork, interesting comparison
now take out a stick of ram :p
My HD3300 will feel bad -_-.
This is the Athlon II X2 Neo K325 1.3Ghz + HD4225 (not my review)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKClt...eature=related
Starcraft 2:
Texture quality medium, the rest on low.
That's funny because I told some of my colleagues who are economists about supply and demand curves not existing and they had a pretty big laugh about the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
when you mentioned the whole economic downturn.... it doesn't apply to why prices are set at one level or another, or why x company releases y numbers of products within their product line.
When I go to my final post-grad exams I will try not to explain graphically how market forces affect supply and demand, "because those curves simply do not exist" ;)
;);););)
Well then you know not to trust them at least :pQuote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
and BTW, when are all those signed NDA's gonna expire?
"no leaks" = "no discussion"
I dont get this whole 3d gaming on igp thing, Dont get me wrong, AMD kills Intel in every metric with all gpu performance but when it comes to igp gaming is 16fps and 1 fps not the same i.e uplayable?
Um people don't just play all the latest, graphically demanding games. If they did I'm sure they would not be playing on this platform and instead gaming on their desktop/laptop with discrete graphics.Quote:
Originally Posted by gallag
Why test them then? What games could igps play at a good 30-40 fps? 4+ year old titels? To me the whole thing is stupid, you will just kill the battry to to play a old game in low quality settings? Even if intel does a awsome job with sb whats the point if it only playes games at 20fps?
That's on high. On medium Batman moves arround 25-30fps. Any modern game can be played around that number in low/low-medium (not all dudes want high settings with 8xAA, just enjoy gaming or doing it in their beds). And there's also the mmo's.Quote:
Originally Posted by gallag
For what you get there's nothing bad. Same can be said for people that just a buy a pc and not want a dedicated gpu because they're not hardcore gamer, play eventually or just want to save money.
A lot of older games are better than the now scriptedashell-hollywood-like games.
And you forget Llano, the igp of that chip can move Crysis in high and any modern game with decent fps (HD5550/9600GSO~)
correct, people also like to play strategy games such as civilization series, and the likes, and others, having a netbook which will not drain your battery life whilst you play games of these sorts is surely a plus.Quote:
Originally Posted by richierich
since I've owned a few netbooks and CULV's I can surely say that one's gaming demands change depending on the platform utilized, hence why I think zacate will be a true platform standard for this market segment.
Lets wait and see first what 17W ULV SB paltform will offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
How much more will it cost though? $100 more?Quote:
Originally Posted by kl0012
For a complete Fusion-type chip based on SB core,and in order to compete with Ontario,intel would have to lower the clocks drastically(both on the CPU and GPU side).I doubt that kind of product would have any chance competing feature-wise with Ontario.
As for the Ontario's IGP,this would be a good guess as for the level of performance and possible power draw :
http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-ATI...0.13885.0.html
The GPU above is done on 55nm node.Add in the 40nm effect and no other components(not needed due to CPU integration) and you can see the power draw drops drastically from 12W.Quote:
Manufacturer ATI
Mobility Radeon HD 4300/4500 Series
Mobility Radeon HD 4570 80@680MHz
Mobility Radeon HD 4550 80@550MHz
Mobility Radeon HD 4530 80@500MHz
Mobility Radeon HD 4350 80@450MHz
Codename M92-XT
Pipelines 80 - unified
Core Speed * 680 MHz
Shader Speed * 680 MHz
Memory Speed * 800 MHz
Memory Bus Width 64 Bit
Memory Type GDDR3, DDR2, DDR3
Shared Memory no
DirectX DirectX 10.1, Shader 4.1
Transistors 242 Million
technology 55 nm
Features OpenGL 2.0, PCI-E 2.0 x16, Powerplay, DisplayPort support up to 2560x1600, HDMI support up to 1920x1080 (both with 7.1 AC3 Audio), 1x Dual-Link/Single-Link DVI, 1x Single-Link DVI Support (all display ports have to be supported by the laptop manufacturer)
Notebook Size small and light
Date of Announcement 09.01.2009
Link to Manufacturer Page http://ati.amd.com/products/MobilityRa
I don't know. This is one more thing to compare. But i saw i3-330UM noteboks for ~$580.Quote:
Originally Posted by richierich
Ontario/Zacate are build to be cheap(smaller dies than Atom). ULV¿s are just regular sized chips, in their price range Llano low end chips are their competition and will kill them.
and the cheapest atom is 200$ cheaper than i3 with a higher die size than ontario/zacate ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kl0012
SB CULV is way too expensive to compete with ontarion and zacate, additionally i3 culvs clock at 1.2ghz and their VGA core is clocked extremely low, low end CULV is going to be destroyed by Zacate due to die size (less than 50%); power consumption (several watts lower) and performance (VGA is at least 2-3 times faster than a CULV, CPU is 20-30% slower than a CULV at the same clock speed but clocked 25% higher than the cheapest i3 ;)
Current low end CULVs are going to get owned by Zacate and sandy bridge CULV is going to be at least 2 quarters behind zacate :rolleyes:
Well yes to the Ontario part but no to the Zacate part, because weather you like it or not CPU's are categorized by performance and price not by die size.Quote:
Originally Posted by generics_user
Zacate is suppose to have 18W TDP and there cpu's like the Sandy Bridge based CULV and Arrandale based U3xxx/U5xxx/i3-3xxUM are bound to crop up sooner or later.
I have said this before also "i'll search my post and re post here" Intel always had an eye for the Zacate type cpu it had a direction to go 4-5 months ago but i dont know how much it has changed. Earlier on the Sandy Bridge based CULV was suppose to have a single core and HT "This depended a lot on the Sandy Bridge flexibility and final production silicon". Dont know about the GPU but if the same 12 unit GPU was used that could lead to serious show down.
Well, price is always issue. There is always people who buy premium, but if you get almost same performance with lower price, most will go for it imho most dont understand the performance and will go for cheaper one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev
Also that single core wont be as responsive as dualcore in desktop you know it.
amd space comand website.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/54-Am...y-157008.shtml
it plays way better in firefox beta 4.0b7pre
i love that comment on visual experience part. Marketing can be so funny. :rofl:
they never had any graphics which was able to allow mainstream and casual gaming, let alone now on the ultra-thin market where they have to downscale huge to get in that power enveloppe :)
Did you overclock your IGP yet? I overclocked it to 850 MHZ ~ 900 MHz through bios... gave me really huge performance jump. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
Yep, MMOs
Overclock to 900 boost performance around 10-15% but this is my emergency gpu(4770 the main one) so I don't want to hurt him xD.
This is the video from the batman bench in the AMD event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btH_gwd8CSg
Batman on medium settings. Compared to my system Zacate is more fluent and stay most of the time 20-23fps. I'm more in the 17-21fps.
AII X4 620 + HD3300 + sideport 1024x768 medium
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...3-52-01-93.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...3-53-39-87.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...3-53-31-31.jpg
@800x600 medium
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0-19-16-79.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0-19-41-25.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0-19-37-28.jpg
================================================== =
So:
Min fps looking at video
i5 520m 2.4Ghz 11-12fps
HD3300 X4 620 2.6Ghz 16fps
80SP GPU "X2 1.6Ghz" 17-18fps
It's so obvious that for casual usage for mobile users, these new chips from AMD seem very competitive, better on most parts. It's just a matter of pricing strategy, and with it's apparent better perf/area compared to current mobile solution from AMD (and also Intel but it's a conjecture of mine), i think they can be more aggressive in winning market share and mind share of consumers out there.
They need an agressive campaign for the average "clueless" joe. Now it's the time.
Many of my friends are now in ther second netbook because of the lame performance of atoms. Started with Atom's, now with AII Neo's, happy guys. TII Neo's are more expensive.
if AMD was smart they would have a whole campaign showing off a netbook thats only 9" doing the same thing as a 15" laptop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
Yup showing some apps that consume more CPU power on Zacate in comparison with Atom would have done a lot of good for them but sadly AMD thinks netbooks are only for gaming on the go. For example moderate Video editing and Photo editing are a no go on Atom processors. showing these on Ontario would have at least impressed me because I already know that their GPU's are excellent. What I want to know is the CPU performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
i think that they save the really impressive stuff (bobcat cpu cores) just in case intel decides to pull off a huge PR stunt or to create an even larger hype just before the launch of real products (at least i hope so)Quote:
Originally Posted by ubuntu83
impressive = bobcat cpu performance on par with current 45nm amd mobile chips / ghz, but i expect around 80-90%....
Possible but i doubt very much that the dual bobcat could do much against the Intel i5 that might be one of the main reasons they did not showcase the CPU power.Quote:
Originally Posted by generics_user
Now on launch day or whenever the next showcase is i very much think that they will bring in a low voltage i3 or a dual Atom to show off their CPU muscles.
Surely core i5 is more powerfull but both of these processors are in different leagues.Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev
Even if Ontario's performance is equal to K8 that's enough to counter Atom.
Yes but when they demoed the GPU part of the chip it was rated against the Intel i5 mobile and in terms of CPU power that chip will totally destroy dual bobcats. Now when faced with a dual i3 low voltage CPU or a dual Atom the situation will be reversed at least in the Atoms case.Quote:
Originally Posted by ubuntu83
will the i5 be in the same tdp range? or is that for the i3?
its only culv chips that are in the same range (18w)Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
but is that i5 or i3 CULV, or bothQuote:
Originally Posted by duploxxx
That was probably to demonstrate "We have a small chip that outperforms our competitors much bigger one". I mean, comparing the graphics with the Atom would be just stupid since it wouldn't even give a hint of the performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev