Just to be clear im not bagging on MSI/FM FM did a great job at exposing this - maybe i over reacted just angry and frustrated.
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Just to be clear im not bagging on MSI/FM FM did a great job at exposing this - maybe i over reacted just angry and frustrated.
You aint alone bub.Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle fester
+1
hope from now things will change...
I've been a moderator @ hwbot for a long time, trust me it won't change. People and even teams will still play games and try to get some false advantage. What has changed and will continue to change for the better is hwbot's ability to reveal when someone is playing outside the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by simone18
this is really sad, man...maybe this could be a lesson for many others...
lifetime ban from all overclock related forums is what we need.
and please hiwa, remove the italian flag from your profile on hwbot, you are not italian.
he has called Italy home for a looooong time
what sort of a comment is that.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafio
yes please .....take for you this kind of comment .....:down:Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
It simply means he is not proud of the fact that hiwa uses Italy's national flag, and I guess thats pretty normal, even in other sports, fans boo the cheaters and sort of disown them when they get caught....(I guess this is a similar reaction)
Concerning what happened, there is 2 sides : overclocking communities and several overclockers.
For the first one (community), I think everyone is angry, frustracted, disappointed against such cheating/sharing. It hurts dramatically overclocking dignity and respectability. I start to feel that overclocking is as dirty as cyclism (Tour de France). I'm french so... I know what Tour de France is... A continuous battle for the best invisible drugs.
Concerning the overclockers, I don't know what is the most awful side : buyers or sellers. Both are typically fuc ked the system.
For buyers, they immediately lose their dignity by saying / telling / posting / submitting something they do not achieve. What a pity to break what they slowly build to be respected.
For seller(s?), how can you make it ??? You just sell worldwide overclocking respectability for several hundreds of dollar ??? Half a 980X BOX ? 33% of a golden 980 ? Seriously, it's stupid and also irrespectful against fair clockers who spend money, time.
I saw that you are banned for 1 year. 1 year is big and little. Big because it's suffisant to 'break' a 'carrier'. Little because everyone will remember your act. I will remember your act. Everybody will remerber you act. We won't forget that. And although you ask for apologize, although we may get public details and pardons, something will stay : you hurted community. You cheated. Now it's impossible to get a respectful image. You are very similar to OPB who was a very good clocker but also a very good cheater.
Very sad.
And sorry for my english.
Finally read this thread... All of it....
HIWA, Afro, skinnnneee & others;
Yes, its sad when HW dies, we have ALL tried that on this level.... BUT this does NOT justify using others results....
You guys really f***ed up, and I dont get why? Skinneee, you are one of the best in watercooling, and a widely known icon... You wont need this for promoting yourself.
HIWA; i know you hate when you are not no#1, but dude, its just not always possible, sometimes things aint going completely perfect, and over last two years, you have learned an aweful lot about hardware about software, about benchmarking, you just need to explain yourself and your knowledge, that'll get you all what you need, and furthermore you keep making top results as a bonus!! Absolutly no need for you to fake results like this....
AY; Be warned, you did this to be kind, but really, try to put a bit morale into it, ask yourself the question "is this right, or wrong?", and in generel, do it a bit more often..
I am a bit naive here; but if I was a vendor, I would not associate with you no more, I would not put you on the list for testing/feedback, as this would indirectly associate my company with condoling cheating....
(GIGABYTE, MSI, ASUS, EVGA)
This is very normal procedure, and where goes the limit? This debate has never really been public....Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondacity
Personally I think its somewhere between not ok, and ok; IF its a matter of one random sample, and not a picked ultra-screened super sample... (hence; GBT SOC with some screening all press and poweruser samples and picking best, for then using themselves for a competition... NickShih/AndreYang... And yes; I keep saying; NickShih = Gigaboost (if inventing female ghost, you'll invent Gigaboost as well ;) )
Brian y - this is a very strange month for me, I actually agree with more and more of what you write, I might even start to get suicidial over this!!! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian y.
Ending off with something I do NOT want to quote...
Dino; No need to point it out, we all have our opinion on what happend, even the ones that wasnt at GOOC 2009... ;) (oh yea; even I have wondered what happend)
FUGGER is competitive, and actually knows alot about benchmarking, he has alot of knowledge (yeayea, dont remind me I have admitted that), he played on the edge of cheat/not-cheat.... Personally I do believe with current rules, by far first of those... But he did twist the rules, just like taxidrivers do with the law, economists with tax.... One can either respect that or not.... I believe FUGGER wont do it again in 2010, because the one-way attitude towards it now....
I think he even regrets 2009, just too darn stubborn to admit it.. A quote I have heard from the east "what do you think about FUGGER?" "f*** fu*ker", I kind of doubt FUGGER wish that to be repeated at an afterparty after an overclocking event again ;)
So leave it be; Its only a few months untill next GOOC, and I am sure FUGGER will play it nice this year!
---------
Thats all for me now; and sorry for the ones I've stepped on for being so direct and honest in my opinion...
Unfortunately, you are not right.... It is a very aggressive comment, and should get a ban....Quote:
Originally Posted by thebanik
HIWA might have cheated, done something stupid.... But that comment is WAY over the line!!! Hiwa is not native Italian, and that is an extremely rude and unappropriate comment!!!
i think the same. is there somebody proud to have a cheater among the best representatives of his country? :shakes: (not only about oc obviously...)Quote:
Originally Posted by thebanik
yes ........Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Beier
that's exactly what i meanQuote:
Originally Posted by thebanik
the cheaters haven't the danish flag on his profile, i don't want this kind of moron with the italian flag.Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Beier
you would be proud to have a cheater with your country flag?
Come on mate its overclocking it isnt the end of the world, no reason to say such a comment as "remove the italian flag from your profile" if you knew hiwa you would know what hes like, hes a dam good bloke.. enuf of the negative crap and rascism remarks..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafio
I wouldnt think of nationalism in the first place...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafio
But now I have told you; HIWA moved to Italy, and therefore what you say is extremely discriminating and disrespectful, and you might want to change it, asap.
Racism? Oh please. I think we should leave it there.
:mad::mad::mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by jmax_oc
yes my point exactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by M.Beier
what a shame...that's really frustrating and disappointing..thought oc world was cleaner as it is in reality...this is very bad for people who makes lots of efforts and sacrifice to buy hardware and plays following the rules...
I feel bad for you guys that got banned, maybe its for the best though as you obviously must be under quite some pressure or have other pressing issues to have to go to the lengths of cheating at a hobby? This is for fun and apparently you have forgotten that. Hope you guys dont quit for good, take this time to reflect on what overclocking really is. Its far from your current perception. Its not about the big numbers like you think, its about the community and brotherhood atleast for me and my team. Ive met so many great people through overclocking.
Its really sad to go back and read the extreme overclocking section and read all the comments of the people that adore you guys (I was one of them) :( . The new overclockers, your peers....makes me sick.
Respect to futuremark and MSI for hunting down the bogus scores. I think it would be great if somehow hwbot and futuremark mods could access and address the same type of information to dissolve discrepancy in scores on hwbot in general.
Its a sad week in overclocking
cheers to that Splave. When the stakes are high some people lose touch and that's obviously what's happened here. Poor judgment by ALL involved, no one should carry more blame, you're all equally part of this debacle so during your time out of the spotlight, do some soul searching and find that spark that got you into this hobby or just leave it and go on to something that doesn't include competing because obviously you guys can't handle the pressure.
Why hasn't there been anything about Vapor even though he was there at the time? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
HIWA for me is ITALIAN.
For me the flag is not where you are born, the flag is what you have in the hearth.
Hiwa is a person like all here and can make a mistake...
Hiwa is a very good person, a very good clocker, since yesterday was making WRs. NOT PHOTOSHOP WRs... real world records for real people.
I know him as physical person and i saw him benching, i saw him tweaking and he gave all us a lot of advices.
I think he have never cheat scores he own.
I am really afraid seeing italian talking bad about him after he helped all us with his guides of superpi etc...
The ban will not stop him benching for sure, it's hiwa one of the top10 overclockers, a screen can't change the reputation of a great person...even if was modified.
Thanks for attention.
you're right kanga...i also know Hiwa and is a really good guy, sharing alot about overclock like few others do...that's however a shame seeing that he broke the rules..i still think that is a good guy, but he deserve some kind of punishment for his acts...i think that a 1 year ban from hwbot for him is something right..a lifetime ban will be too much i think...when he'll returns he'll have to prove again that is one of the best clockers around and that is a man who follow the rules..and i think he can do this.
I'd say that cheating DOES affect your reputation no matter how you spin it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
I'm glad that XS, FM and HWBot takes a dim view on these things and bans the people involved, cheating just creates lots of badwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giorgioprimo
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman84
Mafio already explained is point of view and I don't consider it bad: it's not good to have the #1 clocker of your nation to be a cheater.
It's a real bad thing that you defend him like if nothing never happened... it's a good person, it's a good clocker... yeees, so why don't forgive him and continue as nothing happened!
You can think what you want, they made a BIG mistake, they dropped italian and other involved countries reputation in the sand: so continue to consider him a good person, we think different about him and the others.:down:
What's all this mess ? Ow boy I really missed something while being at work.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Darn guys swapping scores. What a big mistake to make... :mad:
Thanks for coming clean lads, that's already a start...
On a more postive note : The worst for me of all this mess is that Dino and Marc Beier agree on something (I just cut my wrist to see I was not dreaming) A comparative : It's like me and Dino will hugg and dance somewhere sometime in Taipei. Sadly for Dino, you're not my type :rofl:
you can be truth but i cannot forgive what he did for all us.
He did world records for italy not you or other italians...this is an human mistake and can happend.
hiwa had the hardware and was benching...i think that the adrenaline was high for what happened, motherboard and a 6600MHz cpu dead...happened...
It's not an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
When hwbot mods found carpo93 in my team doing photoshop scores, I banned him from hwproject for 1year, and since then I spoke to him no more because he broke the trust and the reputation of our entire overclocking team.
So, Hiwa of carpo93, doesn't make difference to me: ban everybody who's cheating and changing our passion in "trusting each other" to "hey, that guy beated me... maybe he's cheating... he has gigabyte/asus/nvidia support... no way to beat him... he has an alien ES picked from 100 cpus" etc...
I DEFINITELY don't like all this, so for you is a little mistake that could happen to everybody, for me is a BIG mistake that could happen only to some kind of people... people that I don't want to represent Italy, represent my website, my overclocking team etc.:down:
No excuses guys.
That's lame.
So it's ok if I photoshop a score, or pay/ask K|ngp|n to run a bench for me and post the score on XS & HWbot because my girlfriend left me yesterday ?
Grow up, it was their decision ( a stupid & unethical one obviously ), and there's nothing to cut them some slack for.
do you have understand the situation ? we are not talking about photoshop or modified screen ....
there are no excuse, anyone involved in this situation must pay.
But we cannot ruin the reputation definively of a person for a mistake like this
i'm not defending him, he have to pay for sure for his mistakes...but man i konw him in the real life..saw him benching with my eyes and still consider him a very good clocker and person...latins used to say "errare umanum est" , once he payed for his mistakes i hope he'll learn the lesson and never cheat again..objective of punishment is to make people understand that what they did was wrong and that they'll not do it again (sorry for my english...)
+1 :welcome:Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman84
When the community relies on trust, the reputations of those who break that trust go from gold to dirt. You're letting your emotional attachment blind you from seeing the impact this has on everyone who competes in overclocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
There is always the chance after the dust settles for redemption and how these individuals go about getting their reps back is a challenge brought on by themselves.
ooooh boys, I think I need more popcorn :ROTF:
I won't say anything but well we have something to fill out the summer hole :D
€: ok I will say sth: wondering that guys that have been into oc for so long got frustrated by some defect hardware. sure it's a big loss always to have a dead CPU or board or whatever but taking the scores from somebody else to compensate that loss - hmmmm can't follow that...
^^ This. ^^ Why is it that Fugger thinks he is above the law here. He might run the forum but he's just as culpable in whatever offense happens because of this. Ban yourself you slimy toad. Bending the rules (like a taxi driver or tax lawer, I believe one other poster put it) is the same as cheating and you soil our good community with your filth and lies. Someone needs to hold these people accountable. Not just some of them. But if Vapor was there with Skinnee, and Skinnee was banned.... Vapor needs to be banned too. They made the decision to cheat - together. Fugger, you disgust me.Quote:
Originally Posted by aeidau
Mmmmm Very daring first post there man...I guess your post will have a lifetime of about 1 minute... I would have put it down in a more refined wayQuote:
^^ This. ^^ Why is it that Fugger thinks he is above the law here. He might run the forum but he's just as culpable in whatever offense happens because of this. Ban yourself you slimy toad. Bending the rules (like a taxi driver or tax lawer, I believe one other poster put it) is the same as cheating and you soil our good community with your filth and lies. Someone needs to hold these people accountable. Not just some of them. But if Vapor was there with Skinnee, and Skinnee was banned.... Vapor needs to be banned too. They made the decision to cheat - together. Fugger, you disgust me...
HAHA Been more like 4. ;) I've been a member here for awhile, where I should choose to make my first post shouldn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
cheating = mistakes? don't make me laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
ALL OF US sometimes lost hardware but i (and all people with a bit of honour) NEVER mind to ask a friend to give me his score.
this is not a mistake......
if you are a cheater for me you are dead, i don't give a :banana::banana::banana::banana: about what you had done before, if you cheat i don't wanna see you anymore.
and for you guys, it would be better if you stop trying to defend his action.
you are becoming ridicolous........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman84
and please share with us how would we trust him in the future??? and would he be able to prove himself to us since we dont trust him???
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
he killed his cpu so its OK to take andree's backup for cash or not ..... come on ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
ohhh the irony....
i can't say it...he has to prove it...if he's a real man he'll find a way to return trustable...although i understand that some people wouldn't trust him anymore no matter what he'll do..
I want some too Chris, I'll bring the Cokes... this is going to be the most active thread since weeks... I hope admins won't strangle it... there's some dirt to be spilled big time... it has to see the daylight sometime...Quote:
Originally Posted by SoF
Troof. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
Don't be shocked! :shocked: Why all the confusion?? :shrug:
Cheaters and sheisters run this forum! We need to call them out and free ourselves! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
EDIT : Thanks Chris for reopening :p Kuddos
Andre? Is that you?Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobroufa
And why don't people question Fugger more often??Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
Nope, not Andre. My name is my name lol I don't try to hide.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost_recon88
That is not Andre.....Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost_recon88
jacobroufa, why don't you run along back to the forum you came from?
i think he can redemp his situation :p:
go benching guys :)
Which one? Hahaha. Fine if you don't agree with me. Other people do. :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Praz
Is easy....
A question...
If the guys had not been discovered, and cheat had not discovered at this time would be celebrating the fact they are guaranteed to travel to Taiwan (MOA).
This placed the prejudice of that really struggled and many like me, spent time and money for that.
This is not to rob a bank.
When a guy robs a bank, should go to jail.
When a guy cheats on the community of overclockers, should have their punishment, of course, and this should be a ban.
There are many problems with it.
Part of the ranking is only a part, but the amount of people who have suffered can not be determined.
Who said that only time this happened?
Who knows this happened three or four times, and perhaps, it happened dozens (or hundreds) of times, but only now the Dodgers have been discovered.
But I do not decide that ...
Perhaps one way to do that democratically is a vote or a poll to find out ...
But i keep the question... how many times this happened and is not discovered, and how many guys haves this kind of behavior???...
;)
I remember this from my 8th grade Latin class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman84
"To err is human" and yes, it is.
The problem we have here is not so much the bad judgement but the loss of trust. Very different and once lost impossible to get back.
You make a statement that speaks to your charachter.
Damn this bothers me. I like Skinnee. Spent time with him at CES 2010 and in April at the little get together at Vince's.
If I could find a way to defend him I would, but I can't..
For reopening a can of worms ? He's a bit harsh in his word choice , but some things happened back there in Taipei. Prepared my a s s :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by Praz
Sadly too many times man and it will happen again in the future for sure... a poll ain't gonna do it... some want blood :DQuote:
Originally Posted by rbuass
http://i39.tinypic.com/23m7tjd.jpg
.....Waiting to see Andre and OPB start their own hwbot variant :eek:
well looks like you are ban-beggin' with every post you make :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobroufa
Nono don't let him go back, the poor people where he came from - let him go playing on the "Autobahn" that would help for sure :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Praz
Ok then see you in a minute buddy :D well for me I think most interesting points are already on the table. I would prefer if some wouldn't continue trashing this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
HahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Splave
Me too :up:
At least I've got some people that agree with me. I've been a member here for awhile, maybe not as active as some. But when I see a wolf I damn well cry it! Not before. Believe me or not; Do something about it or not; I'm just a messenger. All I want to see is accountability. People living up to their word. Without that, what do we have? A community without trust isn't a community at all. And I, for one, don't trust more than one person around here. What I do, however, is feel sorry for the ones who are betrayed by those untrustworthy. I feel bad because no one deserves the sort of treatment they receive. So, to the best of my ability, I bring hope and truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoF
There is a better way!! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
believe me, as i know hiwa in real life i fell more frustrated 'cause i really thought it was an onest clocker...what i'm trying to say is only that is shure he have to pay 'cause he broke the rules, but not with a permanent ban 'cause i think anyone can have a second chance..i know that regain trust in someone is one of the most difficult things in life...only a few people can and the most of time others just don't trust you anymore no matter waht you do..we'll see what happens...Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
wtf are u sayin?Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
this is not a mistake. stop. it's human will to overcome others and say "rotflmao i've pwn you i've won the ticket".
why a honest person should phone andre, ask for score and post it? try answer this. :down:
benchzowner my personal idol :up:
Is photoshop one of the benchmarks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Splave
Someone mind reinstating Benchz0wners posts, and unban him???? I dont know what just happend, but someone seems to have f***ed up ;)
ROFL!!!! seriously i spilled redbull on my keyboard ....Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gappo
BenchzOwners should stay banned. From all the posts I've read of his across the internet, all I see is flame and slander or just total diarrea.
A lot of the results are believed to be honest based on not much more than trust, only when there is evidence of cheating that changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobroufa
In other words:
If you have solid proof of Fugger cheating, say so and back it up with cold hard facts, if you don't have proof, then don't go and accuse him of cheating, there is simply no point in doing so.
I'm sure that I am not the only one who will believe Fugger is a honest person and bencher until proven otherwise.
read the dialog between Dino and FUGGER, he admits it....Quote:
Originally Posted by naokaji
He said that he requested registry not being an option..... But wasnt approved..... The cheat was him using the registry for mipmap, a well known cheat... But he says, and remain in the opinion that it wasnt cheat for that specific competition because it was not in written rules...
Today; no doubt what FUGGER did is cheating.... But back then, it was a gray area, a gray zone, because it was a relatively new cheat...
- and hell yeah you can do other cheats at a competition likely, but I would bet my skinny butt on no one trying since cheating is in focus now; end of july, and competitions are in september... Will still be in focus...
Another cheat would be speedhack.... Its even more effecient ;-)
Ummm dude im not going to get into this but the proof is there and has been proven - fugger already has admitted to modifying the registry at the comp (although the competition never said you cannot modify registry) He had boosted gt2 scores that wouldn't have been accepted by hwbot.
This was ages ago and needs to be dropped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naokaji
okay...i see a lot of flame and bad words here....
OF COURSE I hate ANY type of cheating or whatever could not help the oc community. I understand that somebody want to be ALWAYS on the top (hwbot, Fm, MOA, etc...). No way to agree what happened this time.
BUT
I can speak about Hiwa. Since the beginning i spoken a lot with him about overclocking, tweaking and other things and he ALWAYS helped me out so I have to say THANKS (and not only me...but entire italian OC community). He did a lot for the overcloking in Italy, getting a couple WRs, helping when somebody of us had any issues, etc...With this post I don't want to say that he made a good action with posting Andre's score. He did a big mistake and this will be a lesson for him and somebody else who thought that cheating or other things like that are possible.
I met him a lot of times and I can say that he respect me as i respect him, and the first thing, in my opinion, is the friendship which I will keep of course!
By now, I think that EVERYBODY who did this have to pay for it of course but in the overclking way, as friend he will be my friend like before! And I'm sure if I will need help, he will do it for me.
I hope that what happened will be a good lesson for all of us and will help to keep a minimim of etic/moral.
Regards,
Alex
*sigh*... so sad to see another one of these kind of threads that give XS a bad name. XS, aka xtreme systems, where many of the world's top computer enthusiasts hangs out, but also where many cheaters roam :(. this is a hobby, yet it still came down to this.
You know from the start what is allowed and what is not. You know what futuremark and Hwbot allow. That grey zone talk is utter crap to me. This as Gigabyte HQ has got no idea how to validate scores and properly lay down rules. Is benching with the screen off is more than enough to me that something not valid is going on... Was it publicly addmitted ? plz link me... don't think D would have started the discussion if it ever was...Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle fester
At least admitting is a start. We know how and what happened Think the data is widely spread... no grey zone, just Las Vegas Style baby. Time to wake up Naokaji... your hero is a great bencher, but has gone over the edge in Taipei...
I just want to know what happened at the Gigayte TweaKING event in Paris with Superpi32... diagnostic mode, no way ever... A fake background with a CPU-Z tab and Intel CPU speed. Enable then turbo mode, yeah that's more what I'm thinking...
Again, look into the mirror and tell me what you see. If you can live with the truth, then good for you... :D My respect you have lost, but you probably don't give a flying hoot about that
Dude, the world has an extremely large ratio of people who have 0 moral fiber, a forum with this many people, it's only natural that the ratio remains the same and that these threads happen and always do happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFireDragon
And how is this bad for XS's name? The admins are letting us discuss this without locking it up. To me that's awesome. I'm part of this community, and I'm concerned not only about my contributions but for my team mates who all work really hard to make an impact at the upper level and many of us are here saying what's on out minds, and pretty freely at that. Kudos to XS for giving us a sound board.:up:
^ I second that
AndreYang, Hiwa, eXtremetweaker.de, KJ and Skinnee cheaters :down: lifetime ban from OC world
sad story...but quote. +1Quote:
Originally Posted by Jp7
remember that most people cheat/lie/steal, they just dont get caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jp7
you never break any rules? :shrug:
maybe but never in a global competition......Quote:
Originally Posted by NKrader
lol... but about WHAT?Quote:
Originally Posted by NKrader
Jonny, what did you eat at school with your lunch money?
Pops, I had the salad, fruit and chicken strips.
(Reality, Jonny ate the Pizza, Ho Ho's and a Mountain Dew)
I think there are different levels of cheat/lie steal... lol.
In my country the punishment of the seller (of something illegal) is even higher than the buyer.
It's a shame that someone like Hiwa, a great overclocker and friend of so many people here have done this.
It's a shame such a case occurring in this community.
In the first posts I did here, armed with great indignation, I asked the eternal ban of all involved.
I believe not everyone should have the same penalty but I did not decide the fate of anyone.
The only thing I can tell you now is that the feeling of shame is one of the worst sentimental than a human can feel.
Had not taken that into consideration, but beyond the ban, they have to undergo this shame and this may be the worst of punishments.
That this never happens again, and if a year from now banned the return, they serve as a lesson for them and for others, so that this fact never happen within our community
In my opinion by the time HWBOT launched, it is continuously destroying the overclocking spirit. I miss the good old days when there where no cheats but hardware tricks. Clever hard-mods instead of foolish and ridiculous renames. Now, everyone with big wallet and sponsor's backup is able to hit the top of the world - qualified & certified.
I'm sick of benching due to this cheat stuff. Overclocking has a god damned purpose: Push you hardware to the limit and utilize your maximum hardware efficiency. Last time I checked, more and more people are trying to cheat the software as to manage a better run/score. As a result the performance remains pretty much the same but the score is a cruncked up enough for a better place at the ranking list.
There is still a major difference. To seek for maximum performance whereas they are point-hunters. All I can say to the OC community is: WAKE UP ! Point to the moon and not the finger.
I cant agree with that opinion, lifetime ban is nonsense..all people deserves a 2nd chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jp7
Its hard enough for them that the community calls them Cheaters.
So plz give them a chance to come back.
And the other point. I cant speak for the Andre, Hiwa and Skinnee bcs i do not know them very well but i can for Afrokalle.
First of all he is part of the Team eXtremetweaker.de, so its not correct to call the whole Team "Cheaters".
There is not one single Score on hwbot from them, which was not made by their own hardware.
Ralf for example did not uploaded one Score, from the Computex, where he benched with SR2 and stuff like that.
I agree that he did a mistake with using a score not done by himself for the Futuremark Competition....so a disqualification in that tournament is correct, but its not to ban extreamtweaker.de in hwbot.
I also do not understand, why they got baned here.
Everyone is talking about them, and they have no chance to give answers.
I think thats a kind of childish...they are all grown-up persons....lets talk about that and find a solution TOGETHER.
:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Paneas
So it's all HWbot's fault, siliest thing I ever read... it's still the person that submits the scores that takes full responsability of his actions... not the website or competition hosting his scores...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Paneas
!! YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE OF YOUR OWN ACTIONS !! Don't point the finger at the moon, point it at yaself...
As most of you know I consider Xs my "home"Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobroufa
I've learned much here over the last almost 5 years and met many great people.
Now as most don't know I stepped down from staff asI needed some time away from the pressures and duties the job involves.
Today I asked Charles to reinstate me JUST so I could come and ban this slimey piece of garbage.
SIX posts and all today and all slamming this forum that I love.
Sayonara you idiot!
I don't think you need to say anything, your sig sums it all up :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Good to see you're back mate! :)
You are biased Don_Dan as you bench for XS lol... Movieman is not a human !! it's an overclocked CIA machine that analysed words as Bomb and co before, now in a reprogrammed version it looks for F words and co :p
You forgot my avatar :pQuote:
Originally Posted by El Gappo
No,Movieman is just a 58 year old blue collar guy that likes dualies and this forum but lately life has tossed some things my way that take up time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
Being an active admin here means being able to devote at least 3-4 hours a day for helping,fixing,moving,moderating,etc and I didn't feel I had that to give so I stepped down temporarily.
What I saw today told me it was time to step back in.
What's happenned is sad,people I know and respected involved(Skinee) but regardless of what happenned I will not sit by and watch some POS dump on the staff and the forum in general.
Overall Xs is the best place in the world that I've seen for cutting edge knowledge, posted by people who know what they are doing and many who set out just to help the less knowledable learn.
Then to Charles, huge investment in time and money to make this place work.
Far more than most could ever dream of.
Yea, it's my home and as the kids say,Nobody "disses" it. Period.
Sometimes dissing is good to rethink strategies, point of views, etc... but since you are 4 times my age Dave I'll let you have it your way :p
To me, as someone who is new to overclocking, this really leaves a bad impression. Why would i want to do competitive overclocking when the chances of me doing well are skewed by somebody cheating? It becomes hard t enjoy when there isn't a level playing field. imo. Now i know not everyone in the community is a cheater but the fact remains.
I have to give Skinnee credit for admitting what he did wrong and taking his punishment. But, honestly, i don't understand why there are no repercussions for Vapor who was with him. Ultimately, the decision is up to FUGGER, but like i said, i believe in a level playing field
A big difference between a discussion and being disrespectful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
This guy had an agenda. Just go to his user page and look at the posts.
Nothing but hate there my friend.
People like that add nothing to this place and he's now history.
Many others have today voiced how they feel both pro and con but no attacking the site or management itself.
Ok,maybe Dinos22, but he's an Aussie and we cut them some slack!:rofl:
Me? :( Come on Albrecht, I'm just posting my honest opinion, you should know that by now! :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
And be careful about stating your age, someone might believe it... again. :shocked: :rofl:
Woah.. this thread makes me very dissapointed.
The same situation. We've got #4 score in Euroregion. Till no cheating was discovered everything was fine - I with my teammate thought we lost in Fair battle - it's life and it's about the spirit of any OC competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by rbuass
Now, after reading all the info - some unpleasant feelings and thoughts "what if... any other guys do/did some sharing etc. over there, there and there?"..
Till the story happened I even didn't think abouth that in all this scale.
Completely agree with Movieman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Actually it would be much better for the community if no cheating happened. I would rather not go to Taipei for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaJ0r
Hope that all the rest will consider this shame in mind and will think carefully before some dirty games.
Community lost several great overclockers, lost some spirit. But another spirit was born. At least now it is more clear about who is who in the game.
Guys who do OC as a hobby and for themselves in first won't dissapear anyway.
Lately I thought I have seen it all, but this is oh so ironic....Frankly, I know what these guys did is ugly, and I do not agree with it in any way. But I do not think this is worst then a cheat. Andre is a guy with flaws, but he also has goodness in him. Yes, he did a mistake. Hiwa is a guy with flaws, but he also had goodness in him. Yes, he did a mistake too. They should both be punished in order to learn from their mistake, and reconsider they way in which they see themselves in this OC scene. However, they should have the chance to prove that they learned something.
We however, should be more concerned about their motivation. There are a lot of ugly things happening, and some we punish, others we don't. How many guys with flaws, and with goodness in them, that did a mistake, are around us, not punished, without the chance to learn from their mistake and reconsider the way in which they see themselves in this OC scene? Is this fair? I don't know, but it is so ironic :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobroufa
Vapor was simply benching with Skinee. Vapor didnt post the score, Skinee did so get your facts straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by aeidau
Yes but nowadays who can we trust . . . . To clarify things, I do not accuse HWBOT or Massman who quoted me above (hehe). I accuse the point-to-point spirit of HWBOT, not the stuff who work and maintain the website. It makes no sense to accuse them, it's freaking obvious man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
Look around, there are people who actually SELL scores. Do you understand how bad the situation is ? I mean, what's next ? All systems are corrupted. No one is saint or angel thus all we have cheated in the past, except Jesus Christ. People who maintain HWBOT scores are humans, not gods. Not perfect. Not judgers.
So, seeing all this holy craps doing around how do you expect me to believe that 'this' or 'that' score is actually real and not fake ? Do you think that only these five guys are cheating over there ? Hohoho, thousands are cheating, more or less. Even the software tweaking is minor early stage of a cheat. It's practically impossible to moderate all the scores and investigate each situation separately.
I mean yeah, HWBOT stuff is working over there trying to host a global ranking list. That's good, that helps people to contribute back to society. That's a really brilliant idea, but hey.... I smell sponsors. I smell money and that leads me to corruption.
Do you think that anyone of these guys should risk their reputation for just a foolish place or score ? I do not things so. Personally, if I had to cheat like this, I surely won't do this for free. Do you ? Ask yourself and find out the answer ;)
Also, ask yourself another question: How do these people know that Andre is selling scores ? Four people knew that the the exact same time. It's not by accident. So, covering all this I end to a conclusion that HWBOT is not a simple plain pure and fair ranking list. They trying with lot's of efforts to do that but the existence of this thread implies the opposite. The cheaters overpass the limits this time.
For some users are great to compare their bench-results contrary to other people's scores. That all good :) We agree. That's the spirit!
But I had foreseen that by the enter of sponsors, HWBOT is already becoming a place that some people can actually gain money and bring at profit. It's a job for them. Selling scores, selling tweaks, selling ES, selling friends and selling honesty. Every thing has its price man.
You simply cannot stop this. You can moderate it, but not stop it. That's Massman and HWBOT people are trying hard to do. I wish for them to find a way that no one can cheat, yet I think it's impossible. Again I DO NOT ACCUSE HWBOT people, I accuse the the spirit of hunting points with SPONSORING. Remove the money from the game, and you may win this fight. But are you willing to loose your pocket because a crazy Dr.Paneas is shouting over a forum ? Haha, lol.
Ok, so we ban them for one year. Lesson taught: Next year you can cheat again :)
So, every time I see another WR, just clap clap and thumbs up and everyone is uber happy.
Sorry for the long post. I've just wanted to tell my point of view as a member and overclocker.
Does anyone besides me that just loves overclocking for the sake of overclocking?
Regardless of the bad things that happen in the community, as this happens in every community, I just enjoy overclocking. Be it with friends, unknown competitors online or in live competitions ... I just love to push hardware to the max and see where it yields me. Why would I stop overclocking because if four guys that got caught?
I do it because I love it.
ABSOLUTE AGREED Peter. "I do it because I love it", that's the spirit man. Let me add this:Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
When the power of love overclocking with friends overcomes the love of power overclocking for money, the HWBOT and our community will know peace.
What you don't seem to get is that "money" isn't the cause of all problems. It's honor, e-penis, girls ... whatever strives man to cheat. Sometimes it can be as retarted as getting more people to like you.
Yea, I do.. I know..:eek: Movieman agrees with me?:DQuote:
Originally Posted by massman
I don't bench often as it takes time away from my DC work but when I do I have a ball with it..adjust,tweak, no that doesn't work, ok,try this and on and on.. Makes you think and examine the entire system looking for flaws and opportunities and last, it teaches you a greater understanding of how all the systems integrate.. Yea, I greatly enjoy those times..:up: