That and even if your cpu ran at 100 degrees C, the fluid is constantly moving through the rad, so it wouldn't ever have time to reach the same temp.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehaze
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That and even if your cpu ran at 100 degrees C, the fluid is constantly moving through the rad, so it wouldn't ever have time to reach the same temp.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehaze
they could be different u would have to use the blue in the gpu loopQuote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Some more pics of my video card blocks after using F1 Acid Green - guess I will have to open them up and do full clean before using them again .......
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&pictureid=619
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&pictureid=620
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&pictureid=621
Thanks Ian. I'll avoid Feser premix forever.
1 thing for sure, green particels can not be in blue F1, so its copper patina maybe? You 100% you cleaned out everything before you began? 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberDruid
Same here!!
The funny thing is that im waiting 2 bottles f1 uv blue from chilled but now after the last few days and this thread (which by the way is full of infos, you guys...:up::up:) there is no way to use them.
Yesterday i bought som destilled water and im thinking to use just a little coolant in it - maybe arround 5%. Now about the 2xf1 uv blue, ill put an advertisement and sell them direct...:yepp::yepp:
It has to be something in the loop that caused reaction. If that would be common problem with F1, tons of people already would scream about it. I don't buy this case at face value.
What is different about the Feser Liquid?
I'm not even using the stuff and I'm getting the urge to open up and clean my blocks !!
This is getting more and more concerning. Sniipe, I hope you get to talk to TFC soon.
There are random cases of things like this happening, but it doesn't seem there is any link between anything. There has to be a reaction going on. There are alot of possibilities if things reacting in his loop.
There have been people running F1 for the past year with a little to no build up in the blocks. I don't think everyone running WC needs to run right home right now and drain and clean your system, if it has been done recently.
I'm running F1 also a long time, in three seperate loops (Blue, Red and Acid Green).
No problems at all. My plexi waterblocks stays very clear.
This must be a rare case I guess...
Something in that loop must have caused a chemical reaction or something like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
In small amounts it is kinda sweet.
I have got larger amounts in my mouth and its NASTY.
I litterally :sick: for about half the work day.
My mouth felt like the skin was melting off.
Drank lots of water and gargled it too, to
try and get rid of the taste.
Got kinda sick and didnt feel good either.
The pump from our 50 gallon drum was broke so i syphoned
some to fill a jug to put in an engine i just rebuilt.
Got a mouth full and was pissed (at myself) and sick the rest of the day.
Well, I could see restriction causing the buildup in the cpu block. I guess VGA blocks are much more free flowing so rather than have the buildup concentrated in one place it would be more spread out. Perhaps inside the rad...Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
One thing is certain from this thread. If i wan't to use some Feser I will be avoiding the Primochill anti microbal tubing like the plague and vice versa :shocked:
I covered this already earlier. I'm honestly very surprised we're all still having this conversation...Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Feser Blue != Feser Green.
Just because something doesn't react with your green dye (in a different system no less) doesn't mean that it won't react with the blue stuff. It's not like when they're mixing this stuff up they put all of the same ingredients in 6 different bottles, then ask them politely (in German) to please turn 6 different colours.
These are chemicals. All colours are different from each other in composition.
Wow, guys don't put ethylene glycol in your mouth for god's sake. It is poisonous. And once it is converted to calcium oxalate in your body and lodges in your kidneys you can't get rid of it (that's how it causes kidney failure). Just don't put the stuff near your mouth!
It's probably better that way. Better safe than sorry :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehaze
Great advice Dream, as it seems, some people need to be reminded of this from time to time ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamaxx
I still dont think thats the cause... (the tubing)Quote:
Originally Posted by Linus@ncix
I dont have buildup in any other blocks, the rad was clean and the res was relatively clean. The only place I had issues was the CPU block and the buildup in there was abnormal to say the least...
How did you loop go? Is the the CPU right after pump? There could also be something where the pins in the GTZ helped to trap the gunk. That would explain why everything is just there.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
nah, the loop went pump-rad-rad-cpu-mosfet-res
I will say yes its possible the problem lies with the tubing but I really dont think so. I have extra blue and green fluid I may drain the video loop and switch up the colors just to put this one to bed in one go....
Probably bout the best way to test it. Have to put it back to folding and crunching. That might have had a little to do with it too, who knows :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Edit: Damn S_D, think you got everyone on the web's attention with this thread. I'm waiting to see it mentioned on Good Morning America or CNN :up: ;)
Since I am using the same CPU cooler and a mosfet cooler in the loop I don't think I am going to be using Fezer 1 Acid Green. Damn....2 unopened bottles just sitting here.:mad:
Ebay they go!
For a "Special" price my friend i get them off your hands..:welcome:Quote:
Originally Posted by greg.m
loop is filled and bleeding with pure feser blue.... Sometimes I realize this "hobby" has turned me into a masochist :p: :rofl:
I still think there was a reaction due to either contamination or the anti-microbials. It takes very little to contaminate certains solutions. One drop of something can make loads of precipitate.
EDIT: Maybe because I'm using it myself and really hoping there's nothing wrong with feser :P
You running Feser Blue in both loops?Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Good for you ... this will be interesting to see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Can you keep an eye on evaporation rate as well?
Thanks for being the Gunk Master Tester for us :)
so has there been an update from feser? a response?
So how long are you going to wait to check on it Ian? If your willing to give it a go again....then I might put myself under the Masochistic flog as well:wierd:
I don't think I will have my loops running for another two weeks or so.
I talked to them yesterday about the issuse, and they seem to think it;s been a reaction, and has never had any Problems with F1 before. This is the first time someone has brought it to there attention. So it's something in your loop. Tubing ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUISSSSS
K guys, I didnt drain the second loop for two reasons 1) I didnt have enough feser green left because I used it in my dads workstation build with primochill pro lrt RED tubing. 2) I was up till 5:30 am doing other things; draining, cleaning and filling a second loop would have put me up all night.
so the loop is running, crunching and my temps are great, loading at 55c on WCG :) I will be keeping a very close eye and reporting any problems whatsoever to this thread. :up:
I will try to talk to feser today, work really screwed me in being able to skype at the normal hours in germany ;)
So i just called primochill and asked them about this. They told me "They don't test their tubing with competitors coolant, Feser 1 has a hazardous chemical, Glycol, in that tears systems apart." They won't even bring Feser 1 to their building because of that.
Edit: they also said they never heard of a reaction with their tubing and coolants.
lol thats some clever "It will kill you!!!! dont buy it!!!" .........."but weve never heard of any isssues :wasntme:"
:rofl:
Or did they mean they've never heard of a problem with using their tubing and their coolants? I mean, I don't like using those premixed coolants, but I wouldn't go so far as say call Fesser one can tear systems apart. Meh, marketing BS.
Just quoting what the rep told me. LOL. Yea they say use their coolant with their tubing. :shrug:
@ S_D
:ROTF: Yea I tried not to laugh on the phone when he told me. Seems they really don't like Feser 1 :shrug:
This is pure speculation, but I wonder if it can be something in GTZ copper base or Acetal top, that may act as calalyst. When I run my blocks round up (each block for few days) only GTZ got oxidation of the copper base, other blocks were as new. Perhaps, copper have got contaminated with something else and went in production... ?
Beat me to it .. I don't see anyone with problems other than GTZ users.Quote:
Originally Posted by *|T2D|*PopovS
Quote:
Originally Posted by *|T2D|*PopovS
I was wondering the same thing, possibly an alloy? It's not the ethylene glycol. I just changed the coolant (10% mix with green antifreeze) in my loops after about 6 months and went through all the blocks and saw nothing but bright shiny copper in all of them and I am using Primochill tubing as well.
EDIT: blocks are Dtek fuzion V2, and Ek Asus 1 on first loop and 2x Ek fc for 4870X2 on the second, Ek cylindrical reservoirs and D5 pumps, radiators are feser.
I'm using the GTZ, crunching 24/7 @ 3.6 GHz. I'd expect I'll see a problem at some point if it's simply heat + GTZ. I'm using Feser tubing, but I'm still not convinced it's the Primochill causing SD's problem.
If I was a betting person, I'd suspect a bad batch of coolant ... BUT, if I see the same thing in a month or two, we'll know there is an issue.
Snipe I found this in another post from about a month ago:
Sounds like wez3570 had the same issue but on a GFX-2! I wonder what kind of fluid he was using?Quote:
Originally Posted by wez3570
wow, good find :up: so its not just me :p:
I sent him a PM...hopefully he sees it and we can find out what fluid he was using.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Iam using Feser One F1 UV Blue and Feser Tube FT Active UV Hose , even have few TFC Fittings.
Any way , can it be a compatibility issue? so the moment you mix some things then one part does not like the other and so on
The black stuff on the block look nasty. Yuck! I remember something similar last time on the swiftech block too. Could be algae? I think we need mini filtration system on our loop.
Does this happen with the Feser one Dye?
Its crazy how no one has solved Sniipes Riddle. Lots of theories but nothing solid yet.
I think it's because it's a conundrum wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a mystery. Geez, the Tootsie pop owl solved the age old question "how many licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?" quicker than you can read this thread, maybe we should talk to him about this? :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Penguin
XSPC glossy black tubing.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamu80
Pure Distilled with 3 drops of PT nuke.
The black tar stuff really baffled me, still haven't got to the bottom of it. Hence to say I've been a bit hesitant about filling the loop on my i7 build. I'm using the same pump, rad and the GFX2 had been thoroughly cleaned(thanks coka-cola, money's in the post;))
I'm thinking about giving kill-coils a go, not even sure if that would prevent it.
WCUK has stopped selling Fesser liquids and now stock Primochill (none at the moment?) or Coolaboratory. Just checked my bottles and found this, contains:
F1 - ethylene glycol <0.005%
CL - ethane diol.
CL Pro Blue label says: There are no particulate materials or pigments in the fluid, which could obdurate the pump or cooler. A dying of the tubes is possible during the process. Coolaboratory Liquid coolant is biodegradable.
PS - what is the best way to clean my blocks - vinegar, ketchup or Coca-cola ?
Again this points to a problem with the block not the Feser.Quote:
Originally Posted by wez3570
Thanks Wez, you did get my PM! I agree it looks like it may be a Swiftech problem? Did you take any pictures?Quote:
Originally Posted by wez3570
Just wanted to clarify. You say it is legal to dump Feser 1 down the drain?Quote:
Originally Posted by bentleya
I was told - NO :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by millertime359
I am sitting with about 3 litres of used F1 .........
Forgot you were from the UK when I asked :ROTF: I would think it would be illegal stateside, that's why I wanted to verify that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bentleya
I thought I had but the only pics I can find are the the 'post cola' shots! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by tamu80
What makes you think it's swiftech prob? Mine was a gunked up D-tek
Another thing I noticed...The liquid from the loop was poured into a jug. Once it had settled, there was tiny 'blue' particles at the bottom.
I've never used dye in my loops if you were thinking of asking!
My bad...although the blue crystals make me curious. Did you look at the photos of the dump water that Snipe posted...it looks like he had similar crystals. What kind of cooling fluid were you using? Also were your temps increasing?Quote:
Originally Posted by wez3570
The D-tek has the same style pin matrix that Swifty has right? That's why I am think that the pin matrix is just trapping the gunk kind of like a filter. The gunk is forming somewhere else though. Which leads me back to a reaction with something in the loop. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by wez3570
Nope, blocks are vastly different.Quote:
Originally Posted by millertime359
Just plain old distilled with PT nuke, which I've always used.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamu80
My temps were increasing a little yes.
The GFX2 was new to the loop, before I added it, never had a prob, might be coincidence though.
It was my GFX2 that gunked up, my fuzion didn't look half as bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
I thought it might have been an air lock in the GPU block, if you think about it, the block is installed upside down. Meaning if there was an air lock, the base plate would take the hit.
Having said that though, my GPU temps never seemed high...:shrug:
I really dunno:confused: lol
Man that is weird. I thought for sure we were onto something here. Did the black tarry stuff look like the stuff in Snipes photos?
In Sniipes pic (bout 8th one down), his looks 'sooty' like the inside of a dirty fire place chimney. (maybe there's a clue there?)Quote:
Originally Posted by tamu80
Mine looked like cigarette tar, sticky, moist, and shiny!
Dude guys...
we talked about this a long time ago.
The general conclusions we came up with is that if your using an injector class block, PERIOD! do not USE DYES OR AFTERMARKET COOLANT.
We recorded a lot of data which was involved with things that used injectors. It seems that the pressure, impact, and turbulance causes the dye to deposit faster on your copper block.
Snipe your fesser green gpu loop is fine because u have nothing squeezing the dye though a high pressure injector.
Other guys who dont have problems, its mostly because you have :banana::banana::banana::banana: head pressure, or your blocks arent causing enough injector and turbulance action.
But 99.999999999% of the time this happens, its on an injector class block.
This is why i ditched the colored coolant in favor of colored tubing and i run straight distilled with silver.
That decides it for me. Thanks!....err...anyone want to buy two bottles of Feser acid green cheap?
The funniest thing about you guys complaining is this.
Your using a DYE for color.
What is the definition of a dye?
And you guys are suprised it gets stuck on your copper? Relearn what the definition of DYE is.
I think if you read the thread correctly you see I had the same problem as sniipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Difference is...I only ever use plain distilled with a couple of drops of PTn
Never used dye or pre-mixed in my loops
Who is/was complaining? All wew were doing was trying help Snipe find an answer to his Feser problem...no worries:D Thanks for the help Wez:up:
Well I am finishing up my loop next week which will have Primochill tubing with Feser UV Orange. We shall see how it turns out over time.
Then yours is left over flux or something that was deposited inside your radiator.Quote:
Originally Posted by wez3570
When a dye is mixed with water, the die can be separated again by filtering.
Usually when you chanel water in tight little holes.. thats called filtering.
So the result is kinda obvious.
In your case, left over flux from radiator, or something that was stuck in the radiator is probably the culpret. PHN = pH Neutral... that means the algaecide is pH Neutral... so i highly doubt the PHN had any role in your blocks blacking up.
We only use silver because its reusable.. thats the main point... and the backup is that the coolant gets stronger antimicrob wise over time.
Well the entire thread is basically a rant. But its an i told ya so rant. This problem isnt new and there is NO way to fix it. Im sorry, but you guys really need to learn what a dye is.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamu80
The fate of all dies, is simple... it will either bond to your tubing and stain the crap out of it, and then the dye will fade... or it will get sand blasted onto the copper like how a paint gun works when you have accelerators.
Asking fesser or any company to fix this would mean they would need to design an entirely new water soluable, non bonding, dye that wouldnt bond to metal or platics.
Then thats not a dye that is colidoal coolant. <--- did i butcher this word? i meant like nano fluid.
I dont care what the manufactor says be it Fesser, coolit, or even koolance. A DYE is a DYE PERIOD.
Its that simple.
They of course want you to buy there coolant why?
Because its only ethylene glycol which is dirt cheap + distilled again dirt cheap + DYE @ 300%+ markup.
They make a LOT more profit wise on the coolant then the blocks.
Guys my last serious note on this thread....
Alex, yes our favorate Petra, went on a dye searching craze for the perfect dye around 2007ish i think... This is Alex were talking about..
In short, i think he gave up. So If alex gave up... Im sorry Fesser... PETRA i know for a fact is a lot smarter then you guys.
You're welcome:) Tamu80. All we can do is share, and if it helps then thats all good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamu80
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
I've used the rad in question on previous builds (without any issues) and I'm always very meticulous when cleaning out my loop. Rad always get flushed numerous times with boiling water and left overnight with cola.
It may be a rant, but it's a rant that obviously many users are interested in, surely that's the whole purpose of this forum, to communicate, share and help. All three of with you'll find in this thread.
I for one have found this topic interesting, but then I do love a good mystery!
If we find gunk in our loops should we just.....keep it to ourselves:confused:
No your right...Quote:
Originally Posted by wez3570
but a lot of you guys are crying for the moon. Or chasing rainbows, as they say.
Sometimes u can only see cake, and not touch it.
Im still guessing its left over solder flux (possibly the food coloring inside cola dyed something).
Next time try 7up. I would assume its better because it has lemon and lime, instead of caramel.
But on another note... why would u use soda? Corn Starch is not something u want to wash something with.
Isnt he using the soda for the mild carbonic acid that it has in it?Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Definately no cola residue left, boiling water flushes see to that (and residual flux). I always check the flush water too.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Cola has amazing cleaning properties when mixed with metals, I would imagine it's the acid. Remember the 'drop a penny in some coke and it comes out like new' old wives tale? Well it's true! lol
I take your point about the 7up though, I might have to try that, think they'll sponsore me?:eek:
It's colloidal ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
club soda...Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Penguin
why use corn starch ???
that is what im wondering..
if by some chance the dyed corn starch got stuck on something, that could explain his dark colors.
Wes im not saying it can be your error, but i learned the hard way, never underestimate the human OOPS factor..
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Freonor
thank you.
Amen to that:)Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
So sniipes problem is dye in his coolant and mine is cleaning the metalware in my loop with coke....
both with same results?
I doubt it, just my opinion.
What about the blue particles in the original loop fluid I found when I first emptied it?Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
It looked like copper oxide, actually the black gunk could have been copper oxide too, now I come to think of it?
But how? :shrug:
The mystery continues.......
all the possibilities im gona list.
1. chiped paint from a rad, that went inside when you tightened your fittings.
2. Possible tubing was stained with something.
3. Cola
Copper Oxide that fast inside a loop with those temperatures... errr.... something must be wrong with your loop then... <---trust me... pray its one of the 1-3. You dont want 4-6.
I realized I typed the wrong acid. it was Phosphoric acid and citric acid that i was thinking of. Although, I still agree with you. I am sure there are plenty of other cleaners that would do a better job and not be as "sticky".Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Plenty you say? How can you be "sure" ? I'm interested to know. (coke-cola isn't cheap these days!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Penguin
I've tried ketchup on my blocks, vinegar in my rad, all sorts of things:eek:
Soda works for me and thats all I need to know
I'm sure there are other cleaners. I haven't said coke is the be all and end all.
Never found it to be sticky TBH
Thats what jeweller called the silver wire he made for my loop, first time I had heard that. Its used for 99.9% silver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freonor
Nobody accused you of glamorizing cokes cleaning ability. I just questioned why you would use something where other alternatives exist that doesn't make use of sugar as its primary ingredient. I also find it hard to believe that you think soda isn't sticky?? Left out for more then a few minutes it will begin to solidify/crystallize (whatever you call getting sticky). Havent you ever poured yourself a glass only to find a sticky ring of soda left behind on the counter later on that night?:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by wez3570
I suppose I'm just careful when using soda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Penguin
I put the blocks in a jam jar, with the lid on and leave them overnight. In the morning I rinse with water.
I fill the rad using a funnel, rinsing after use. After emptying the soda from the rad down the sink I then rinse with boiling water.
I call it the 'non sticky' technique. :p:
What are these alternatives you keep referring to? I genuinely am curious to know?
sounds like the ediable technique :P
I still think its the tubing =o
i dont think that the tubing has any chemicals that get it the loop more than others, i use the pro lrt ant it smells the same as the tygon and has the same feeling on the inside of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzy
but i think that sniipe should use that bottle of blue he has in the gpu loop
:banana::banana::banana::banana: guys..... guess what turned clear in only 5 days of the computer running 24/7? ..... FFS this is ridiculous
Aqua Tuning owns the Feser name? Blame them from now on:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
YHGTBSM! You better break the blocks down again Sniipe!Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Both loops, or just the cpu loop again?Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
There has to be something reacting in your loop then.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
How come it happened so fast ? only 5 days ? =o
5 day's?!? :shocked: That's a record I think! I would understand if you had a filter in your loop like mine here but seriously 5 days is the quickest I have heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
http://www.houseofottawa.com/test5/sys1.jpg
this time he might get the dye before it cooks into the block, if its still dye then its guarantied that its the fluid coming apartQuote:
Originally Posted by millertime359
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
This really is crazy. As I said before, my Feser One blue has been running in the CPU loop (GTZ + PA120.3) for several months. I've been crunching 24/7 on the machine since end of May - CPU core temps running around 55 degrees C. Can't understand why yours is going so quickly, unless it's just more restricted.
Note - I am NOT saying this isn't going to happen in my loop, just wondering what's accelerating it in yours. I know the dye residue will separate if the water evaporates, but hard to see this happening in isolated areas within a loop - guess anything is possible.
I dont get it.... really. Its gotta be something crazy going on. I cleaned everything very thoroughly. My temps are still good and everything....
Was it still just the CPU loop, or did it happen in GPU too?Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
nope I never touched the GPU loop and its still goin' strong
That is just crazy. There has to be something reacting in that loop for it to happy that fast :( :eek: :shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
Edit: wow ... happy that fast ..... I need to go to bed ..... :cool:
Are you still using the primochill pro LRT?Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
yes, everything was exactly the same, except I cleaned it all thoroughly