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Check out the difference in the Everest memory scores between EVGA 790i and Asus P5E3 Premium. Same cpu on each board (q9450 at 8x450), same ram (2G Cellshocks at 1800, 8-7-7-20, all other settings on auto). Of course this is untweaked and the boards obviously use different auto defaults but still ...
790i:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...0iQ9450Mem.jpg
X48:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...Q9450speed.jpg
IDK if there is any P1 and P2 on the 790i reference boards, but if there is one enable it and give it a shot.
Very small pics bro!...
the same results that me and my q6600 with ddr2!
I hope better results with eVga 790i ultra and OCZ 2x1gb PC3-12800 CL7!
Regarddss from SpaiN!
lol the funniest thing about this shot is actual times ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aivas47a
but once you get a bios with P1 and P2 and enabled them bandwidth will equal or exceed that X48 board straight from bios startup
but bandwidth is one thing.....efficiency another
they don't always go hand in hand linearly
I CANT read the everest numbers with such tiny and compressed pictures :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Aivas47a
Did you optimize the latencies of the x48 board?
Sorry about the small pics guys. :am: I'll try to edit and replace with bigger pics after work.
Basically what the pics show is much slower default memory read/write (like several thousand points) and higher latency on the 790 vs. the X48. Cache performance numbers are almost the same.
The numbers for both boards are strictly using default/auto memory settings except for manually setting 1800 and 8-7-7-20 on the main timings.
Everest performance for both boards can be improved a lot with tweaking, I just found it interesting that the "plug and play," default performance of the boards would show such a big difference.
The difference in memory bandwidth numbers does NOT translate into any noticeable difference in super pi (the 790 actually has the better 1M time) or 3DMark06 (results using same video card are not in my post but are almost identical).
dinos/others, forgive my ignorance but what is the P1/P2 setting and how should that be tweaked?
Had some corruption, but have opted for running memtests before booting up, which has helped.
Apart from that very dissappointed. Doesn't like my ram at all. Won't even get through bios in anything other than 1:1. Have tried v.loose timings. Will run small FTT no probs, blend fails in seconds.
Have tried P03 and P03R2. P03, which was downloaded from the EVGA forum, would only flash if forced.
Have spent a good 24 hours solidly testing, and basically :horse:
Is it a bios issue? Is it hardware? Is it ram compatibility? Should I sell the board? Buy new ram instead? A few questions coming to mind right now.
In answer I think unless a new bios crops up in a few days, I'll take the cheaper route, and flog the board for something else.
One positive. It looks nice.lol
RLM
New review from FCG at Anandtech today -- he basically loves the 790i (Striker version), with the only caveat being the data corruption issue:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3283
Can anyone tell me what's good about this nvidia 780i compared to the P35 or X48?
This is the 790i.Quote:
Originally Posted by aoch88
It's the first nVIDIA nFORCE chipset with DDR3 memory support ( no DDR2 support at all ).
It's a brand new chipset design, not like the 780i which is a newer revision of the 680i + a bridge chip ( PCIe 2.0 controller ).
It has far greater overclocking capabilities ( very high average FSBs ), and decent DDR3 overclocking capabilities.
And of course, it supports the 45nm Quads.
vs the P35/X38/X48...
It reaches higher FSBs ( in average ) with the E8xxx & Qxxxx CPUs than P35/X38/X48 [ some decent X38/X48 boards can come pretty close with the highly clocking 790i's though ].
It supports 2-way & 3-way SLI...while P35/X38/X48 support only CrossFire.
That's pretty much it.
P.S. Please lets keep the thread on topic now.
That's weird. My DDR3-1333mhz OCZ 7-7-7-20 scores better than your DDR3-1800? (Using 790i board also) I get a score closer to 10k for read/write. There must've been something wrong with your 790i test?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aivas47a
Probably so ... the numbers are so off I was wondering if there was some glitch with the 790 memory controller that might have some relationship to the data corruption issue, but no one else seems to be seeing this (including in FCG's new Striker II Extreme review at anandtech today) so probably my test run was just borked somehow. (I have had data corruption too a couple of different times when pushing high FSB -- something that can happen on any board but seems to happen more easily on this one.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gylen
I also noticed your FSB is higher than mine (450, mine is at 333) and I've read that it effects synthetic benchmarks such as this one. There was definately something wrong with your test. But like you said, it probably has to do with the memory issue the 790i is having.
What version of BIOS are you using?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aivas47a
P03 from the evga website.Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_fantasy
Is Gigabyte and the others like DFI and MSI going to release 790i motherboards? if so, when? People need more choices imo... (well i know, with things actings like this, we dont really need more for now until a fix is released)
Gigabyte is planning to release a 790i board, but they have no ETA yet.
And no early E.S. ready yet. [ official info ;) ]
yupQuote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
they are not in a rush hehehe
Here's the P7N2 Diamond http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...=1&cat2_no=170
I can tell :(Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Wise move for the time being I'd say.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
I mean... would you release a product known to have severe issues ( data corruption ) ? I for one wouldn't... not until the solution or at least things clear out and people know what, how & why.
Patience is a virtue... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by slim142
-------
Norton Ghost installed...image taken...
Currently benching SuperPi 32M @ 500MHz FSB + DDR3-2000 ( Link + Sync Mode )
Norton image was worth it :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner;
Restoring image now.... corruption #1 for today ( it's my second one for the record ).
Oh by the way...the 32M stopped at loop 24 ( LOL ) [ computer froze ].
well that wouldn't have been the reason for delay but this looming as well i am sure they will also keep an eye on thatQuote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
actually i'll fire off an email to my contacts in case they are not aware
Yes, it is a wise move. Not that Im desperate for more options/choices but is just that Im surprised others didnt release their boards on time. Thats normal for DFI but not for others...Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
Just to be sure, anybody got OS or data corruption issues from a single drive or array connected to a third party controller (Areca, LSI, Dell etc)?
This should be a 100% no.
Unfortunately it's a YESQuote:
Originally Posted by RealTelstar
The reality is that this is very common and not just with motherboards. It's cpus and every conceivable type of add-on card as well. It's routine with software from os to games and productivity tools. Revs, sub-revs, services packs, patches, patches for the patches and so on are facts of being a consumer in today's market. It's unfortunate that it happens with highly anticipated and promising products (not to mention $$$) but when a group such as we have here nails it, brings it into the light, verifies, documents, and makes appropriate waves, it serves us all well. Keep up the good work. :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
*BenchZowner books a flight to Taiwan to pay Asus's HQ a "friendly" visit*
Piece of ****
Won't even pass SuperPi 32M @ 400MHz FSB - DDR3-1600 8-7-6-21 2T... freezing @ loop 2 - 3...
Please refer to my post on the first page of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by RealTelstar
The boards are made in china if thats any consolation... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
Try running memtest from DOS. It would freeze too. That's why I think it's the SPP/memory. The funny thing for me it happens with everything @ default(1333 QDR and 1333 RAM). This is just after I did a BIOS upgrade to 0511 and then did a clear cmos. I never tested it with the BIOS that it came with.
The freezes are from "BAD GTLREF & FSB VOLTAGES" I don't know if this is a bug in the base code or the SPP itself or what but certain types of FSB traffic trigger immediate or delayed hangs and adjusting these voltages manually and carefully/methodically COMPLETELY CORRECTS the freezing...
I did some lengthy and thorough testing and charted the problem with a Q6600 @ 1600FSB using a infinite looping 1 minute 1080P X264 file and a stop watch. After endless hours of this I found that with proper MANUAL GTLREF and FSB voltage tweaking I could COMPLETELY correct the freezing or I could also cause the freezing to happen within 2-3 seconds.
(I wonder why it seems no one is paying attention to my posts on the issue)
:facepalm:
It wasn't the GTL REF or Vfsb in my case.
tRFC control was "stuck" and the board was overriding my value and setting up a low value for the clocks given :D
Ive corrupted the OS on nearly every platform I have overclocked.
Its when the ram starts to fail, not a 790i issue.
790i is not different, know your limits and use a program like memtest or the F8 in Vista to run the memory test, that will usually tell you if the memory is starting to fail.
When I survey the chipset market, this is one arena I appreciate where AMD purchased ATI and brought chipset expertise in house... nVidia is slowly going downhill in their chipset arena.... they have persistent data corruption issues in thier boards. I cannot vote in the poll as I don't have a 790, but I have corrupted at stock on 680i chipsets.
I'm memtesting everytime I change a timing or clocks on my RAM ( even if running the same frequency, just using a different divider ).Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
40 loops test #5.
It corrupted the OS just by booting...
However... I'm getting the grips of this...nasty Asus Striker II Extreme now ( and it's buggy BIOSes ) and things got better.
Total corruptions counter = 4, 2 at relatively high clock frequencies, and two at really low frequencies ( one of these two was at 400MHz FSB and DDR3-1600 8-7-6-21 2T with the E8400 @ 3.2GHz ).
Had a bit of joy booting into windows using dividers. 1605 mhz 3.6 ghz on the quad and memory 1070 mhz I think it was. However immediate blend failure and OS corruption. Tried everything (well almost) including various GTL ref settings, but no go. In fact a PITA.
What's needed is comment from EVGA etc and NVidia. It's a waste of time tweaking for hours on end if it's a known issue with certain components, which needs to be addressed.
I've since swapped out the 790i for a P5E deluxe, and Oc'ing has been a breeze. Back up to 3.8 ghz @ 1.5v on the Quad and with memory currently at 1345 mhz 6-6-6-20 timings @ 1.8v. Memory passed memtest and onto further testing.
However maybe a dumb observation on my part, but as far as I can tell 3D mark 06 scores on the P5E aren't a patch on the 790i. The 790i is around 1000 points or so higher. Could be other factors involved.
Either way, will be holding on to the 790i for the time being. Here's hoping to some official answers/solutions.
RLM
hmmm very interesting!Quote:
Originally Posted by 5010
could you post some more details about this?
did you adjust the voltages in bios or with a mod?
i think there are a few dozen people in this thread who wouldnt quite agree with that :DQuote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
i had a chat with mike, quite interesting!
it seems 790 always corrupts during windows shutdown.
from what i understood he can boot at a certain speed that is stable for dual 32m, he can bench etc, without any issues, but when he reboots, when windows shuts down, it corrupts and the next time he boots most of the time the install is busted and wont work or he gets corruption issues once hes in windows.
maybe this helps nvidia to fix the issues, it seems the corruption happens when the system shuts down, not when it boots.
Overclocking-related corruption will usually tell you at the boot, unless you try to change the parameters in Windows.Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
I don't have a 790i board but I have been following this issue. Thankfully I haven't encountered a corruption issue on my 780i, but it was a nightmare on 680i. (with the same memory sticks) I could even reproduce the corruption by very small stress on the disk controller. Sometimes a few repeated defragment sessions, or cross-copy of large data files/folders were enough to cause the entire OS to go south on early 680i.
My corruptions are 3 to 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
3 during boot, and 1 after shut down.
Is this a problem that can be fixed with a bios update or is it hardware related?
Can't tell for sure yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by SureShoot
One thing i do not understand , i was just looking at the new 750i FTW and i noticed that it has all solid capicitors.
I know a board does not need all solid capicitors to perfrom well, but why would evga put all solid capacitors on the 750i and not on theyr 400$ top of the line 790i?
Makes no sense to me.They are just rushing all this motherboards on the market to make money and looks like they are not testing them properly.They know the 790i has porblems but still does not stop them from working on another motherboard instead of fixing this first.
I think i am going to buy GIGABYTE GA-X38-DQ6 or a DFI x38 chipset instead.
Sucks because i really wanted this board :shrug:
PS if i am not mistaken this data corruption problems was also present on the 680i at release, how can they possibly make the same mistake twice in a row.
I must say I'm a bit astounded with all this problems reported about the Nvidia 790i chipset :confused: :confused:
With Air Cooling and with Cascade I run this board for many hours without a single corruption problem or any other..
I did not pass 107Mhz PCIe because with higer PCIe speeds the 9800GX2 lose OC capabilities ..
Just see this:
http://pedrorocha.planetaclix.pt/E85...iniCascata.jpg
Even at 580Mhz FSB, DDR3 @ 7-6-5-18 1T the Retail EVGA 790i Ultra SLI (rev. B1 like any other EVGA retail) does not give me any problem and was in fact one of most satble new motherboards that I ever test (and tested near 100 mobos in the past)..
So maybe the problems are related with earlsy samples of the chipsite or revision of the motherboard (B0??), but the Retail EVGA 790i Ultra SLI it was one of the less problematic new motherboard I ever tested!!
:yepp:
Pedro, can you do a system files verification check ?
open a CMD window and type sfc /scannow
Pedro
I dont know if this helps at all but I would like to know this as well, are you using XP or Vista? Are you using windows default drivers for SATA? Did you install nForce drivers?
I had data corruption with the default windows drivers, and with nVIDIA's nFORCE 6.94 as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by slim142
Comment from EVGATech_JacobF on the evga forum regarding bios update
Fingers crossed:up:Quote:
The Q6600 OC issue will be resolved in the next BIOS release.
Also, the CAS7 memory issue will be resolved in the next BIOS release as well.
BIOS is scheduled for release very early this week.
RLM
Nice!, lucky eVGA owners, like always eVGA supporting their customers. Now is time for asus to respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by RLM
The major issue here now, is the data corruption.
And people, please try to keep things on topic.
Who knows, maybe that BIOS is the miracle evga users are waiting for and it deals with the corruption too.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
But now that I have seen the poll results and with that many people NOT having corruptions at all, I would REALLY like to try this board on my own and test it myself.
My question is, how can I get it fixed/
I have instant product replacement warranty at my store, and I want this motherboard replaced or fixed. How can I prove to these lamer techs that are going to look at my PC (They aren't very saavy with issues and these forums) that I have this issue? Should I tell them to format and reinstall 10x and see how it BSoDs? I'm getting multiple hangs that are very annoying, and sometimes a BSOD booting into windows during the splash screen.
Running vista x64 with 1600 mhz viper and qx9650 all stock
Hey Saaya,Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Nice to see someone finally taking notice!
Seems to me the issue is pretty widespread, plenty of ppl over at the EVGA forums are complaining about freezes/hangs/lock-ups during video playback and during some other tasks aswell. I have multitudes of terabytes of HD content so the issue was apparent to me almost at once and I found that just sitting idle in the CRYSIS game menu's would cause the same hang-ups(during one of these hangs my CRYSIS installation was !!C-O-R-R-U-P-T-E-D!! but the rest of my OS was left intact!) I began investigating the issue very carefully and I found through trial and error (ie: infinite looping x264 + stop watch) that I could control and duplicate the system hangs and data CORRUPTION by manually adjusting the FSB + GTLREF Voltages alone.
I did my adjustments from the BIOS since this is my personal computer and I have it installed in a case nestled into my desk etc.. I do work in a small boutique and I'm resposible for system design and overclocking(all of our rigs are OC'd) but in the same breathe I've got this 790iU for myself and so that I can get to know it very intimately for all future commercial builds we will do based on it...
Cheerz
can you provide your full testing notes here please
so whats suppose to happen here with this check? when i do it, it demands to have the XP SP2 disk in the drive then it goes through its little progress bar and the prompt disappears. nothing ever comes up after the progress bar. i am assuming then that it didn't find any errors?Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_fantasy
reason i ask is because i am crushing XP installs one right after the other trying to push this memory kit i am working with over 1050MHz HCI stable. but when i do the file check, it does what i outlined above. i am pretty sure the borked Windows are simply from pushing memory too far and not the corruption issues being discussed here.
Notes are far from scientific and far from complete.
EVGA 790iU, P03 Official BIOS
Q6600 @ 3200MHz/1600FSB 8x Multi, 1.3125V BIOS/1.22V load (familiar chip from several previous builds)
2GB Patriot Viper XP3-12800 @ 1600 8-7-6-1T (Sub timings Auto) 1.625V BIOS/1.82V Everest - Well tested RAM
2x 8800GTX OC2's (626/1450/1000)
HDDs: Raptor-X(OS), Seagate 500GB 7200.11, WD 500GB Raid Edition, WD 250GB AAKS (Multiple 350GB+ Multi-file transfers done without errors between
drives)
Pioneer 212DBK SATA DVD/RW
SPP: 1.35 (Less produces various BSODS)
MCP: 1.50V
Spread spectrums and all CPU features except Virtualization: disabled
Testing done using an inifinte looping 1080p x264 in Media Player Classic & a stop watch.
FSB V GTL1 GTL2 GTL3 GTL4 Time Until Hang(h.m.s)
1.40V Auto Auto Auto Auto 00.00.53 (CRYSIS was corrupted here after about 10 seconds in the game menus)
1.35V Auto Auto Auto Auto 00.01.41
1.30V 15mv 15mv 15mv 15mv 00.00.10
1.25V Auto Auto Auto Auto 00.02.32
1.25V 05mv 05mv 05mv 05mv 00.03.46
1.25V 10mv 10mv 10mv 10mv 00.03.37
1.25V 15mv 15mv 15mv 15mv 00.07.16
1.25V 20mv 20mv 15mv 15mv 00.09.11
1.25V 20mv 20mv 20mv 20mv 00.14.38
1.25V 20mv 20mv 25mv 25mv 00.21.32
1.25V 25mv 25mv 25mv 25mv 06.11.51
1.25V 30mv 30mv 30mv 30mv 48.00.00 ( Approx) | w/o loop
1.25V 35mv 35mv 35mv 35mv Current ~ > 48.00.00 | w/o loop
It's a lengthy testing procedure for the most part but it is showing a pattern as you can see from the results I transcribed off the back of an envelope where I originally wrote them down.
Symptoms and triggers of this hang are: Sudden frozen video output accompanied by a buzz/squeel or looped audio from your speakers. The hang is most often triggered during video playback but on occasion it occurs during gaming and also in the CRYSIS game menu's which seem to place an odd stress on a system.
Other notes: I have been unable to reproduce the hang while the system is loaded(Quad Prime95) but I have been able to remove load while video playback is in progress and have the system hang immediately or within 30 seconds of stopping the Prime load. SLI was disabled during all testing but the hangs are reproduceable during gaming with SLI enabled.
Page file is turned off on my system.
have you pushed past 35 (>> interesting part is seeing the jump to 25 >> is that replicable)Quote:
Originally Posted by 5010
are you setting positive or negative GTL values
can you please do negative value testing as well (if possible)
btw this is really good research and you might have just saved some ppl at least from trouble of corruptions :up:
also i am surprised your CPU needs so little voltage
can you give it a bump too
My data corruptions happened with stable hardware settings ( it could run Orthos, and any benchmark just fine ) [ and the RAMs were tested with memtest test #5 for 50 loops before I booted to windows ].
BillQuote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
so did 5050 yet he had specific problems with the HD playback method
so clearly not completely stable
GTL Ref is an area of bios which has never been covered thoroughly by anyone and probably deserves more attention seeing the changes that 5050 is experiencing
wish i had a spare week. i'd go crazy with the numbers while listening to iTunes comedy radio stations and kill myself laughing while testing :D
Will check it out soon.
I'm currently memtesting the sh*t out of it :D
Can't do a thing here, limited by PCI SuperPi VGA ( all the cards that I have here with me are Twintech's and are incompatible :D )
Will have to wait some days for my VGAs package to arrive.
Edit: @5010 I'd enable pagefile just to make sure it's not windows/apps f*ing with me, because some apps have problems when you have no pagefile ;)
i hear ya, things at work are getting slow again so i might have a week on my hands soon enough. wonder what i can do with it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
BTW, found a way to get POST with 1.500v set for SPP voltage and managed validation at 1100MHz...with 2.125v vDIMM set in BIOS :D
it froze while i was trying to run Everest bandwidth.
validation link
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...00_valid-1.png
These are all positive GTL's, Did some(very little) negative GTL tests but it was before I started keeping notes and from what I remember it was all basically instant hangs. Wouldn't mind probing further around but if you extrapolate my chart to include all GTLs + all FSB in all combinations its gonna get pretty huge and this is only for 1600FSB, at best it's gonna end up patchy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
This is the second Q6600 I've had which works at these speeds and volts (0.01V difference between them actually), this one I kept since it ran a heck of alot cooler(almost 10C) and with only a maximum of 1C difference between the cores Ex: 39C-38C-38C-38C.. I could bump it sure but it's run like this in two other boards for about 6 mnths, she;s pretty well proven :D
just for testing purposes ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 5010
later you can tweak it down all you like hehehe :p:
Im on XP and haven't used a pagefile since I ran socket A :P except for when using one or two stupid programs I've come across that required one.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
--
Dinos,
How well learned are you when it comes to GTLREF Voltages? I've studied the theory alot but I've never got my hands dirty like this.
good work manQuote:
Originally Posted by 3oh6
i've benched some Crucial sticks at 2200MHz CAS8 but 32M was stopping at 4th loop from memory
but with 2.275v in bios lol
my friend i have very little knowledge in this area and have only really read some hints from other OCersQuote:
Originally Posted by 5010
from what i thought i knew negative values are the ones to go for when pushing high FSB but that is such a generic statement and one i can't back as i never did any actual testing to prove either way
OCing is a lot of fun and can be extremely time consuming (even more when you roughly know what you're doing lol) as every Q&A has more Qs hehehe
i think you've clearly touched onto something here and if it is not too difficult i would like ot see you replicated the results with Auto values and then going from low values to 25 and see if stability will still go from 2-20 minutes to 6+ hours
I've read similar things from others aswell but when I read over some techical papers on Gunning Transceiver Logic I discovered that it doesn't quite work like that..Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Basically from what I understand it helps govern the data between the CPU and NB, where FSB VTT = the the maximum voltage for a "1/On" and the off is 0.04V. The GTLREF voltage is like a line drawn in between these two voltages, whatever signal is above the GTLREF is a "1" and whatever is below is a "0". <- BASICALLY, but its a little hard to explain it in a paragraph.
Adjusting GTLREF is very much like tuning the injectors in a car engine.
I happen to OC for a living(Or atleast a large part of my work) been at it for a very long time. Last time I fully explored a motherboard I spent nearly 3 months finding the perfect 24/7 sweet spot on the 680i and likewise it's gonna take awhile but I intend to do the same with the 790iU.
great just the right person we need in the thread (and in general) heh :up:
keep up the good work
5010, i did read your thread with interest, and I know it's a bit frustrating that it seemed to go by un-noticed.Quote:
Hey Saaya,
Nice to see someone finally taking notice!
Personally I tried your values and it appears very similar variations, when that didn't work. i.e. +15mv - +30 mv, with similar FSB voltages.
The reason I did'nt acknowledge your post is that as mentioned it didn't make any difference to my stability issues.
I know from using the DFI in the past how important the GTL refs can be with Quads, and also how working values can vary even with the same hardware. However until some of the other issues are sorted bios wise, it's a bit of a fruitless exercise it seems. Especially taking into account EVGA have acknowledged a Q6600 issue.
RLM
i dont know man, according to the poll its still 50/50 for the ref boards and 60/40 for the asus boards. if half the people DO have corruption issues thats a very large number. what concerns me is that some people do not have any coruption issues whatsoever even when overclocking. so it sounds like only some boards are affected. if thats the case then it really sucks... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by slim142
i wanna try 790 too to make a map of the stable and unstable fsb/mem combinations :D
nice! if its gtlref and vtt then this makes sense! that would explain why for some people the board works and for others it doesnt since every cpu reacts different to gtlref and vtt :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 5010
so for some cpus those volts are too high, for some cpus they are too low...
i have a feeling your instabilities might have been cpu related though and not chipset/mem related like the corruptions most people here experience.
but then again, who knows, maybe the boards are different and so everybody is actually experiencing cpu instabilities cause on the 790 boards you need other gtl and vtt voltages to reach the same cpu speeds stable...
i think thats only the case on asus boards, they have relatively bad gtl implementation and have way too high tgl once you increase vtt.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
gtl is supposed to be 66% of vtt, but with higher vtt, its more like 80% or even more.
remember fsb swing? its a really low voltage, ive been thinking this could be the 0.4v "line" that is used to measure a logical 0. fsb swing is supposed to be 1/4 vtt. so we have vtt, gtl ref, and fsb swing, which from my understanding are used to interpret a 1 or 0.
high = vtt
ref = cpu gtl
low = fsb swing
1200mv
800mv
400mv
i dont know how exactly gtl works, but i assume a "wave" has to be between 800 and 1200mv to be detected as a logical 1, and between 800mv and 400mv to be detected as a 0. if we increase the clockspeeds the transistors will push the voltage up and down faster, meaning the "waves" will not be as high and the valleys between the waves will not be as low anymore. so then its hard to tell when its a 0 and when a 1. so in this case reducing vtt would make it easier to detect 0s and 1s again. i think thats why intel reduced vtt to 1.2v in their latest cpus from 1.4v originally.
i dont think we need fsb swing and vtt, what we really need to adjust is just gtl voltages. as long as a "wave" is above gtl, it will be a 1, and if its below it will be a 0, it doesnt matter how close it is to the vtt line and the vfsb swing line. ...i think!
but having vtt and gtl adjustable is nice, cause we have 2 ways to adjust gtl then. we can either widen the window which will increase gtl milivolt wise and push the window up, or we can adjust the ratio, increasing or decreasing gtl in rough steps in milivolt. but of course, the best would be if we could adjust gtl ref in very fine steps with dividers, since there are other voltages related to vtt, such as nb gtl :D
5010 from your results it looks to me like your board has too low gtl settings, its most likely below 66%, and when you increase vtt its probably even more off and higher, just like on the asus boards i meassured. are you using the asus S2E or a 790 ref board? :D asus right? :D
Let me post the way I would reproduce the corruption on 680i. I know that this thread is about 790i, but I suspect the root cause could be similar. If you think my example is not applicable for 790i please feel free to ignore this post.
Under XP:
- Need 2 partitions (physically different drives or same drive)
- Copy over files/folders that are 15GB+ from partition A to partition B
- immediately after start another copy procedure of 10GB+ files/folders from the other partition (partition B) to the partition A
- Now open the built-in defragment in Windows (or any other defrag utility) while the copy procedures are taking place.
- Start defraging. Once finished, immediately re-run the defrag. You can alternate partition A and partition B to your liking. Keep defragging for 10 times. (shouldn't take much time after the first defrag)
This almost always resulted in lock-ups or BSOD in my 1st AND 2nd 680i boards, after which event everything went south.
I know the above scenario was somewhat extreme, but after experiencing random corruptions I had to make sure things are stable for a long-term usage.
I have only performed the check on Windows Vista, so I'm not sure what the result will be under XP. But doing a quick google search for "check corrupt system file xp" should find some ways to do the same in XP.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3oh6
The result under Vista after typing sfc /scannow if there are no corruption found:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...asy_86/550.jpg
And when there is:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...asy_86/S2E.jpg
Thats what I cant understand neither. I dont understand how some people are overclocking 500Mhz+ and are not getting corruptions. They're probably messing with GTLRefs and they dont think it is actually saving them from the corruptions?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Btw, what board do you plan on getting?
Isn't it a case of certain hardware/brands working better in these boards than others?
For instance looking through posts it seems 8400's are doing well currently.
Or is that not the case?
RLM
lopri, so while it still copies you defrag the partitions you were copying to?
slim, im planning on getting the ref board, and maybe try out the asus board too, but for now ill try the ref board first. the asus one seems to be worse, so if the 790 ref is ok, then i might move on to the asus. if the ref board already gives me a hard time i know i dont wanna mess with the asus one :D
thanks for the screens. in XP i just get a progress bar window saying it is checking and then it disappears at the end. in the CMD prompt, it never says anything. will have to look into it i guess for XP.Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_fantasy
I think I hit a corruption issue in XP
Defragment/analyze doesn't work anymore. I click and noting happens.
Open Office will not install telling me windows is not installed properly.
I can't burn or even copy files to my CD-ROM drive anymore.
I fired my video cards BUT now I'm wondering could this problem cause this?
http://img.techpowerup.org/080414/sdsdsds.jpg
ASUS 790i SIIE
Installed on a 500 gig SATA drive.
Yes. But like I mentioned, it's kinda extreme (and stupid) way to test disk controller. :) I didn't do it from the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I would get lock-ups while installing a game or occasional defragmentation. I first set up RAID but I quickly realized there is no way that RAID would work on that board, so I switched to IDE mode. Even with a single drive, I would get lock-ups which would eventually lead to total system corruption. I first noticed that defragmenting caused the corruption, so I decided to test it out. Even without file copying under way, non-stop defrag would result in lock-ups and corruptions. Large file copying was also another cause I noticed, so I decided to mix the two (copy & defrag) to fully stress the disk controller.
Of course I didn't sit for hours just to copy/defrag :D , but installing OS/applications and setting up the system usually involves those activities, so I just did it a little more excessively.
Again, this is a story about my past 680i. But at this point, I think anyone with 790i should fully test her/his disk controller before using it as a 24/7 system.
multa, did you try the system integrity check via cmd command?
lopri, well no, NVIDIA and the mainboard mfgs should test the disk controller before SELLING it as a 24/7 system :P
but yeah, i guess its best to test the integrity somehow.
But i thought copying large files would be enough...
didnt that trigger any problems for you?
just copy the files and then check if they are identical to the original file, or copy a rar archive and check if the checksum is ok?
i remember reading that the problem with 680 corruption had something to do with the controller cutiting off the last bits of the packages that get sent from/to the hdds. but it didnt happen all the time, or it did, but it didnt cause any problemscause it was extra bits that werent entirely necessary or something.
I would like an answer to this as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3oh6
Last time I tried sfc /now, I had multiple times a popup requesting XP cds, and after the progress bar finishes nothing happens, no msg whatsoever...
Also what is the most robust way to check that your system suffers from data corruption, what are the signs?
Note: I realized that I had a lot of data corruption using the network adapters. I was connected to my other rig though gig ethernet (other rig is nforce 4 sli + amd x2 4600+) and for every file above > 5 GB I had 1 or 2 bytes corrupted.
I uninstalled nvidia network access manager and now it seems to be fixed.
Again wtf ! The network corruption bug was already there on nforce 4 (remember active armor?!).
AFAIR in Windows XP if SFC asks you for your windows disc, then it's "replacing" the corrupted files.
damn you are right:Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
If any of the system files is missing or corrupt, it will then search certain system folders to see if it can find a healthy version of the target system file. When a required healthy file can be found, it is then copied to the appropriate folder. If a healthy target file cannot be found in those folders then SFC will request that you insert the XP installation CD. If you have a CD that has XP incorporating SP2, then the subsequent steps in running SFC should be straightforward.
When SFC finishes its work you will not get any report - the SFC progress dialog box simply disappears. If any files are reinstated SFC will do that without telling you and as far as I know, a log file is not created. This lack of feedback is not nice.
I guess I can join the corruption bandwagon...
I''ve never even heard of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Start -> Run -> sfc /scannowQuote:
Originally Posted by DaMulta
http://img.techpowerup.org/080415/untitled41241.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
corporate auto install XP disc gives me this
So far I have no corruption issues. We had a conversation with an xtreme salesman in Microcenter, who said that there are no problem only with Seagate and WD drives (exactly what I use), can anyone evaluate this information/confirm it?
You listen to salesmen? I sell hardware myself and the stuff my customers tell me they've been told by other salesmen is 99% unfounded no0b speak.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcg
Is your corporate XP disc SP2 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMulta
Because if you're running XP SP2 you need a SP2 cd for the SFC to recover the corrupted files [ there's also another way, but I don't remember what to do exactly to guide you through it ].
Unfortunately for you as well, this message means that you have data corruption.
Not sure if this helps.
http://www.updatexp.com/scannow-sfc.html
Involves copying the I386 folder from Cd to harddrive and then a simple regedit.
RLM
Sorry if I missed it, but could these issues be avoided by using a Areca RAID Controller? Obviously this doesn't help if your RAM overclock is what mucks it up, but would it help in the other cases?
Somebody used a controller ( think it was an Areca card as well ) and HAD corruption as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor_Blade
on the drives connected to the Areca? i find that not likely possible...Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
hmm
Yes, on the drives connected to the Areca.Quote:
Originally Posted by RealTelstar
Anybody besides OBR had corruptions or BSoDs using RAID with Nvidia Mediashield?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor_Blade
My post, first page of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by RealTelstar
Much time has passed for me testing the Striker II Extreme & I'm still not sure how I corrupted my first install of vista 64bit.
I'm now 100% sure that this issue does not apply to my setup or motherboard.
I've tried everything to get corruption to happen but it just won't repeat. How many times can you BSOD ect, run everything that you can think of & windows still boots.
Now on another note, I changed from vista64 to vista32 can this be the difference?
Can we get a run down on what operating system is being used, just a thought but maybe nothing.
Only other change I made was viper 1600 to viper 1800, just can't see that making a difference.
I'm just going to hold off on major ocing to they release a bios to fix this.....
No the guy is a game developer with xtreme stuff, like all of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5010
He has for example qx9850 - not so many of us have it from Intel for testing, don't you think so? He looked quite knowledgeable, plus his words confirmed what I know about that "secret" 790P03R2 BIOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcg
LOLz.. Well whatever u wanna think man.. Did you SEE this "9850?" by any chance? :ROTF:
mayeb it's a special IntAMD version :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 5010