Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJay
lol hey if your gunna do it,, do it right...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJay
lol hey if your gunna do it,, do it right...
well guys, got some bad news. :( would appreciate it if u guys could help me out
I had been using the 1.36b bios and decided to give the 1.80 R3 MOD by NFM a try. I downloaded it and flashed using winflash (loaded optimized defaults before and after flash), but now windows wont load. everything stops loading after it POSTs and loads the raid array thing, and all i see is a little dash flashing on the screen. did i corrupt my bios? does my gskill tccd have anything to do with it?
any help would be greatly appreciated
Hamster, My G.Skills won't run at the timings used in the R3 MOD BIOS. I tested them with A64 tweaker before flashing.
Yours might not like them either...
Are you still able to boot off a floppy? If so try flashing to a BIOS that doesn’t have modded timings.
ah yes, I can boot off a floppy, good call D3kMatrix. :) cant believe I didnt think of that next, musta had a brain fart
I know this has prolly been asked a thousand times, but can someone PLZ give me the instructions to go about flashing from a floppy, like what I need on the floppy and what the command to flash is?
hey hamster do you have APIC enabled or disabled ?
If indows was loaded with APIC ENABLED then you MUST have it enabled now or windows wont load.
hhmm what else...
did you reset with the jumper ? if not do so and then reflash again.
personally hamster my pc4800 OCZ Plat worked better with the 1.36 rev 4 by NFM
i havent tried 1.8 R3 yet with the mushkin but i wont be able right now as the mushkin is having some issues..
but the ocz definately got a few more bumps from the 1.35 r3.
Also.. i havent seen any issues with the TCCD/5 not liking the 1.8 infact just the opposite. as long as you reset the bios with the jumper it should work.
dont forget the raid stuff isnt set up properly after you flash along with a few other items.
try booting from a floppy does it do the same thing ? what about a cd ? if it does then its doing the same crap that the 1.9 bios does to me
unplug any uneeded ide or sata drives and only use what you need just to test.
AWFL833D biosname /py/sn/wb/cc/cd/cp/f
use awfl833d for 1.8 and below use awfl852 or higher for 1.9 and above
dont forget your limited to the 8 character dos limits so rename the bios to whatever. but if it shows as 180mod~1 in dos then the bios flash wont work cuz it wont see 180modrev3.bin if you use that in the command line so name it a shart name
oh and just so you know the timings are the exact same with 1.36 and 1.8 mod
if you were using the original MSI 1.36 then yes the timings are different.
hey guys just wondering, is there any part of this mobo that would benefit from throwing some heatsinks on? I know people do this on some power regulation stuff in the past, dunno if theres any spots that would benefit? i see some little black ic's on the back of the board between the cpu socket and the rear io panel for example... I've got some stuff left over from a worthless purchase...heat spreaders for my ram. not only did the crappy retention brackets make the spreaders go on like /|\ instead of [|], but they came with these larger heat sink types as well, that are now useless to me. Just kidna bored, I don't think anything is overheating. (altho i will be water cooling soon and throwin more juice at my chip :D ) I still await a bios that may get around my chip's craptastic memory controller someday... :slapass:
yeah those are the only ones alone with any other chip opn the board.
there really isnt any benefit that i know of but it definately isnt gunna hurt to put them on... nope wont hurt at all but you wont see any improvements that i have ever seen from adding them.
mail them to me i could use them :)
Hi all, there are my settings actually after few weeks of testing :(
Venice 3000+
Corsair PC3200 XLpT (chips TCCDs) 2x512M
Bios 1.A3MOD4 modded
http://sonic9.free.fr/sonic/PhotosPC/stable320.jpg
Now I will continue with my new GeForce6800GT ... but I have "freezes" bug ...
@Lestat: With your 6800Ultra have you got lags ? especially with SPEAR demo, no ? thanks
Sonic the Freeze bug is the card RMA it. It's a known issue with 6800 cards mostly the GT but some Ultra's
Contact the card maker and RMA it.
If your overclocking the card lower the Overclock and it will go away.
also look into better cooling like a waterblock or the NVsilencer 5 Rev 2. that will take about 15c off the temps. Water will usually do more.
no lag issues for me but this entire system performas like crap in video benchmarks.
i had a 3200+ CG clawhammer and a 6800GT and i used to get 6200-6300 on 3Dmark 05 with this venice at 2.7 and either pc4800 or mushkin i only get a MAX of 5700.
Also why are you running your ram so low ? that ram shoudl be able to do way way better which will increase your all around performance. Also raise the cpu voltage a touch and go higher on the cpu. that chip will handle more even on air.
Yes, I think my ram can do best but if I use 1:1 I can up to 250fsb (not rock stable with 1,65v too), with the 166divider not stable too, I will retest my overclock but atm I must fix my freezes before the guarantee done ... (excuse for my language ...)
What settings on your ram Lestat ?
Sonic i dont recommend you use that bios that bios is really only for X2 owners.
with your system i recommend using either 1.8 original or Rev 3 modded by NFM
or
1.36 Rev 4 by NFM
the 1.9 which is what the 1.ax bios is... is known for horrible overclocking and massive failure at 250mhz...
use the 1.8Rev3 or 1.36 rev 4 and i bet you get a stable and more reliable and higher overclock..
no guarentees but handle your cpu voltages ram voltages and HTT and HTT multiplier properly and you'll be good to go.
cpu multi - 10x
HTT Multi - 3x or 2.5x
HTT - 250mhz
Ram Freq- 200mhz aka 1:1
Cas timings with your ram - 2.5-3-3-10 not 9 or 8 or 7 or 5 10 is best for NF3 boards. although 8 and 9 arent much difference but your ram may not like it.
cpu voltage 1.45
ram voltages 2.7 or 2.8 for tCCD
try out that bios i mentioned and see what happens guy... that bios really is crap and is not helping you, its hurting you.
okay I come back to 1.8nfm ... and I havn't the 3000+ unlocked ;) ... so I will test with x9 ... thanks for tras tip.
Goodbye.
Lestat do you got a link about the 1.ax bioses and how they act since i used it for a bit and didnt notice anything u described, only that htt droped from 37x ish to 36x ish
all you gotta do is look thru this thread, pcperspective and the msi forums to see all the poo about the 1.9bbios tne 1.a3 is better but still shows alot of the same issues.
Sonic.
i dont know what you mean by you dont have the 3000 unlocked ?
maybe you just mant you havent tried other mutlipliers ? lol ?
you said you would try 9x have you been running on 8x or something ? again that will alow for higher HTT and memory but you loose cpu speed which with AMD 64's is key ,, the faster the cpu the faster the memory thruput. i mean thats the same for almost all cpu's but the amd64's really kick in with high cpu speeds giving high memory speeds.
atleast thats been my testing results.
re, I have the 1.3b6 Rev4's NFM bios and I have tested this :Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
260mhz sync 2.5/3/3/10 cpu@1,45v ram@2,7v (htt3x) [multi x9]
In OCCT about 2 min to make error. the cpu is around 2,34ghz so it's too bad ... with that :
8x320 async133 (ram215) 2/3/2/10 same voltage htt3x.
In OCCT fully passe 30min test. the cpu is around 2,56ghz and the high fsb and frequency make more perfs, it's my result ...
The new divider (216,233 ...) is intersting to testing the ram I think but doesn't work here, anyone can use those dividers ?
I have a friend with DFI nf4 / OCZ VX ... I will do some test with his platform this weekend ...
if your ram is TCCD and your at 260mhz on an NF3 board you need to be @ 2.8v
2.7v isnt gunna work. now someone else may say differnetly but the nforce 3 boards,, its been my experience are really goofy with TCCD ram. but that may just be me and my crappy board.
if your running 1.45v @ 2.58ghz that is really good keep going.
my 3200+ if i go 2.6 i have to go to more volts so..
those 3000 chips are magic they overclock really good.
I think too my tccd don't like my msi ... another friend has DFI/nf4 and runs 300mhz with same tccd (not mine but other same model) @2,7v but just in memtest (no errors) but impossible to boot in windows xp :(
I want to test some others ram but it's hard to find someone has this ...
(question: I'm french and it's 01h24min AM here, what about you Lestat ?)
its 1825 here 6:25pm i am Central Time -6 GMT
i have had 3 sets of TCCD on this mobo and they all hate this mobo. but i can take the same ram,, atleast my old gskill LA and put it on a DFI board and it loves it.
I know that this question may be a little OT but I just got a new Logitech 5:1 speaker system from DELL and my digital sound outputs are not working! Any help appreciated and if you want a killer speaker system for your PC check out slickdeals.net on how to get the Logitech system from DELL. You can also get a color printer for 4$
ahhh the Z5500's i have the Z5300's and those jack a$$e$ at logitech screwed us all out og digital.
you also need to install the proper realtek drivers, enable them in the bios and then you must choose the digital output in the realtek driver control panel, the little icon down by your clock for the realtek controls, not the little speaker.
the best way i have found to do the realtek stuff with digital is to put it on autosense. you will see it.
and then be sure to put it at 5.1 speakres or some actually call them 6 channel instead of 5.1 the .1 is the sub so they just call it channel 6.
anyways thats how you make it work as long as your speakers actually have a digital input. otherwise you have to use all the color coded ones. which will match the colors of the cables on your speaker plugs.
btw your not gunna get much better quality with the crappy realtek sound chip when you use digital. with analog you still get all the dolby digital sound and all that, its just converted to analog, you might get a slight better bass and treble but thats all. and then you have to have a nice set of speakers to notice it.
Thanks for the quick reply. The system acutally has both optical and coaxial digital inputs but I guess that I have never downloaded the proper drivers unless they came with the MOBO. Anyway I will see what I can do.
Thanks Again.
yeah they would have come with the mobo but they are REALLLLYYYYYY old
go to realtek's site or jsut as easy go to MSI's site and grab the latest from there.
the realtek site is gunna have the newest so maybe check their first just make sure you ge tthe right realtek chipset first.
Thanks,
How do you enable the drivers in the bios? I downloaded the most recent drivers and wnnt into the bios and could not find a place to enable?
OK,
I found it in the bios and it is enabled. But syill not working for me.
Ok I am at 2.2 ghz steady on a Venice 3000+ with 2.5 cl on the ram I get a blue screen every now and then. How should I go about tweaking my ram and keeping the 2.5 cl. It is 2.0 Plat OCZ Rev. 2. Setting suggestions?
Should I just set it to 3.0 to crank it up to 2.4 and beyond? I'm not too familar with tweaking the ram much more then just changing the CL
Try to change other Trcd / Trp / Tras, with 2.5/4/4/10 you have bad timings but you can test high clocks ...
I re-switch to 1.A3 mod4 by Syar ... not stable with 1.3b6 ... but the 1.A3 seems to have a coldboot bug (with high fsb) ... I will do some test before confirm it.
does anyone know of a ovp mod for adj the vore i just did it but when i go higher than 1.8 it just reboots
thats cuz your cpu wont handle it dude
none of the amd64 cpu's will handle that kind of voltage unless your on vapo
but the mobo itself maynot handle that high.
now i maybe totlly wrong,, but ive tried it and the same thing happens.
1.8 is just insane and even alot of vapo chillers dont even go that high
Hello all neo2 users.
I have been now reading about the bests bios with venice and tccd memorys.
But im still in same place...what bios shuld i use too get best o/c?
Im now with 1.36mod bios old 1:(
And i cant hit over 300HTT and i cant use htx2 or ht x2.5 but x3 and x4 and x5 works nice when i need too changes.
My comp want boot with x2 or x2.5 in ht:(
So please what bios shuld i try?
And where cant i get it from?(link)
EDIT:
I use TT bigwater cpu cooler to get my temps ok..if that helsp to find good bios for me.
//kTa
ok first
1)
whats your CPU ? what voltages are you using ?
1:1 your not gunna get that high of an HTT value. if you can get 300mhz 1:1 then bro you are lucky. Thats personal experience and also research talking. The neo2 just dont go that high 1:1
run the ram on a 166 divier and drop your cpu down to 8x and run the HTT @ 2.5x see what happens, then try the same but change to 133mhz ram.
TCCD ram needs 2.85 or 2.9 or 2.95v on this board to go that high. 1:1 and most of the time you wont get that high anyways.
2)
what ram do you have ? what voltages and what timings are you using.
3)
i personally recommend and the other guys will probably agree. use the NFM bios's 1.8 rev 3 or 1.36 rev 4. i am using the 1.36 rev 4 and its great. i get slight better overclock on BH5 and TCCD. plus it allows up to 1.8v cpu incase you have a cpu you want to fry ;)
i can run 370mhz HTT 7x cpu multi and ram @ 133mhz. (for me 8x multi is the sweet spot but 7x is perfect also)
cas timings are totally dependant on your ram. tccd start with 2.3-3-10 and then 2.5-4-3-10 then 2.5-4-4-10 then 3-4-4-10 until you find the spot that works best. btw the way there is absolutely no speed difference in 2.5-4 and 2.5-3 none i did a bunch of tests last night and the only thing it does is cause the ram to be a little tighter and cause errors if you have a high mhz ram like 265mhz+ switch to 2.5-4-3-10 you wont loose speed but it relaxes the ram and should let you go higher HTT
Hi,
What chipset drive do you recommend for this mobo?
Right now I use 5.03
chipset drive lol i was like huh? you meant DRIVER...
for me,, i recommend the 4.27 or the 5.10 or whatever it is right off nvidia's website.
If you use the 7.x those are designed for nforce4 boards and some people make them work good but i have had issues if i install them.
the 5.x drivers have an IDE bug that causes the system not to boot when you have certain DVD-CD roms installed,, you have to unplug them for windows to boot. If you dont have that issue then dont worry but my Lite-On dvd burner is one of the drives with issues with these drivers.
frankly if your happy with the drivers now your not really going to get any increase by going to a newer driver. the 5.10 were the last official nforce 3 driver if i remember correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
1) I have a crapy 3000+ venice LBBLE 0519 DPIW @ 2610mhz 1.65v
2)I have G.Skill pc4400 (chip 440) @ 166 2.5-3-3-6 2.7v
So where can i find the 1.36 rev 4 bios?
I have tryed out now 4 or 5 diffrents cpus and i have big trubbles too get up to 300htt or more i have tryed 300x8or9 and i have tryed with x3ht lowest...if i go lower and my comp will not boot more:(
So i shuld try 1.36 rev 4bios?
//kTa
Thanks Lestat,
I do actually have oc problem. I pass memtest fsb255 (2-2-2-8, 3.4V) but in windows i can only hit 237fsb stable!
Singelchannel is 260fsb (2-2-2-8, 3.4V)in Windows no problem!?
The CPU is not the problem.....
Anyone here using A64x2 in your NEO2? How's the o/c result? My 3800+ reached 2650MHz but any thing higher will leadd to unstable system.
Vega if your ram wont do 250mhz in windows RMA it.
or reload windows there could be a hardware issue caused by a driver thats doing it.
and go to 3.5v and try it the ram will hold 3.6v just fine.
waiho are you the one who posted the thread about the poopy oc'ing San Diego ? i saw someone had almost identicle results.
Sideeffect has a san diego and runs it at 3ghz no issues he says. so.
you must have got a bad overclocker.
i mean frankly guys the higher the chip number the worse it overclocks is what i have seen thats the same for winchesters, clawhammers, venice's, newcastles... they all seem to overclock bettter the lower the stock cpu is. maybe thats jsut me but i see that everywhere.
My 3200+ is a total turd, only hits 2.7 and its now unstable at 2.7 so the chip is dieing.
heh no issues u say. Well i wouldnt say that i have issues all the time. To many issues to moan about them all day on forum ussually they can be solved.
Was reading over at msi german forum that maybe they found a way to unlock the 150 and 183 dividers in the 1.A4 bios. ALthough i think that those options are coming soon anyway in a future msi bios.
Im still using 1.8 at the moment will do until maybe 1.A5 is out i havnt tried any of the 1.A versions but ive heard some good things so am looking forward to testing it out.
well i didnt mean NO issues lol
more like no BIG issues that's keeping you from running your SD chip @ 3ghz lol.
bah i just dont trust MSI to make a bios anymore. i'm not sure who's coding them but they suck.
What speed did you get the redline up to Lestat?
Im getting into my burning in. Seems to work :woot: im using windows memtest and i set voltage to the max so thats 2.85 volts then i run a ram setting that didnt work before leave memtest running even though it detects errors for a few hundred percent. Then i reboot at 2.8 volts and run test again and i swear the errors are gone.
Im still using this 166 divider and burning it in has i think made it usable. Cpu wont really do more than 3ghz it starts rebooting at 3070 + and errors like crazy over 3020 or so in super pi etc. So im focusing on tightning up the memory timings now.
not sure your runnig a divider on that ram. the DFI nf4 boards dont even let this ram run on a divider very well. the redline just doesnt work with dividers , even the Mushkin forums are filled with people upset that the ram doesnt like a divider. maybe they changed it in later rev's of the ram
The guy i got the ram from had it runnig at 265mhz @ 3.65v on an Ultra-D which is pretty much on par.
for your burn in Side Effect you need to run the ram at 250mhz 3.4v as thats the stock setting and voltage for the pc4000 redline. i dont know what the stock voltage is for the pc3500.
you arent going to get very far at all with only 2.85v you'll need a volt modded board or the ddr booster.
anyways run 250mhz 3.4v run prime overnight or set it and go to work. then raise the ram up 5 and leave the same voltages, and prime again. if it fails go to 3.45v and just keep raising the mhz until it fails then raise the voltages.
seriously though if you have mushkin that runs a divider good then i think you got a good set but i cant say if it will run a divider past 250mhz..
My mushkin died... 1 stick is dead and the other is failing with only a max setting of 260mhz 3.6v and prime failed right away so i rebooted and the stick was dead...
yanked that bad stick out and it booted up,, then ran 255 3.6v and it was ok went up to 260 and it seems solid for a while then the 2nd stick started dieing.
so basiclly i have 2 dead sticks. The guy i got them from has been a real champ about it and is taking this ram back and sending me some super Corsair PC3500 original BH5. he had that running 270mhz 2-2-2-5 at i think like 3.7v or something close to that.. but its original bh5 she will take anything you give it.
im done messing with this neo2 though,,, my PC4800 TCC5 dont run right and i think its bad too. but Sean at OCZ has yet to respond to me with OCZ's settings for a neo 2 and this ram but i cant even run 265 2.85v 2.5-4-4-10 without errors and without a doubt this ram should be pulling 2.5-3-3-10 280mhz minimum or around 275mhz before loosening it up more.
Im a little upset at OCZ ram right now but i wont let it go further until i get an Ultra-D board...
I dont have redline Lestat i have crucial ballistix and 3.4 volts would kill it for sure . Maybe thats not such a bad thing though.
I was refering to your redline but looks like you replaced that now.
oh sorry hahahah sorry
im a bit screwy today my mind just isnt right.
but yeah the redline died so im back on this TCC5 PC4800.
Burn in only works for UTT and BH5 other ram it doesnt help.
I dont recommend people immediately go out and massively overclock their ram but burn in only really works for bh5 and utt.
tccd and tcc5 it definately doesnt work from the threads here and other forums and my own testing.
I just got this board up and running and so far I have had much better luck than with the dfi nf3 ultra board. I had a couple of questions that I have been reading through to find so hopefully I didn't just overlook them. What is the mtrr mapping mode in the dram config? Also are there any modded bioses that will give you access to write to read delay and read to write delay? I am currently using 1.A4 murdok modbios. These settings are too aggressive. I am currently oc'd at 10x250 but I had to loosen up on some of the ram settings. After looking with A64 tweaker I can see these 2 timings are too tight for my oc.
yeah i agree i think they are too agressive also. which may link to why i have such bad overclocks...
i wish they would make those settings visible for us to use. Since you can change them inside th ebios hack tool then you can make them visible inside the bios itself for us to change.
i would really like to see a totally hacked bios that shows everything... there has got to be more stuff there.
have you tried the 1.36 Rev 4 or the 1.8 rev 3 ?
what cpu and ram do you have? that will help us help you.
I just updated my sig. I have an x2 3800 so I have to stay with 1.9 and higher. I am using 2x1024 patriot pc3200 LL 2-3-2-5 ram. If I loosen the ram timings to 2.5-3-9-3 I can get better oc's. I was hoping there was a modbios that would open up all of the settings including bank interleave and one for the chipset voltage.
No there is no chipset voltage linked. Only way to adjust it would be to Solder a resistor. Also i very much doupt it needs doing anyway with your setup. The ram will never go high enough to need the extra chipset voltage.
People run 300+ HTT fine with the current voltage.
I have had the ram as high as 240htt but if I use a divider I shouldn't need it to go past 235. I had the chip up to 2.65ghz in another board but the board had a lot of issues so i dumped it. I would be happy with a bios that had access to the other memory settings. I did notice a setting that the current modbios made available and I have no idea what it does. Maybe someone here knows. It is called MTRR Mapping Mode.
Im looking in the bios code now. Extra memory settings just are not in there. They will have to be added after in the lan rom or on windows boot.
I did find the 183 divider though and i enabled that still looking and seeing what else is turned off.
Think ill turn off the 216 233 and 250 settings as they dont work anyway.
Also found +13 and +18 percent cpu voltage settings. Now i dont quite get why they are in there because if msi wanted them gone why add them to a new bios. Going to enable them and see what happens.
edit - im talking about 1.A4 bios here
edit - maybe max async can be added can see the code for it im not sure if its in 1.A4 bios or not by default someone let me know.
n00b OCer back again
so 2 days i had lots of tyme...went thru quite alot of this thread
finally today managed to boot at 250htt 1:1 2.5-3-3-8 tho i had to lower the multi to 9 tho it wudnt prime more then like 10 mins but thts cuz of the low volts which is cuz of crappy coolin n psu
and i also managed to get 2420 prime stable on default heatsink, nuthin to be proud of but atleast its a move in the right dir
for some reason 240 stil wnt boot even tho 250 wud, a bad figure maybe?
and btw im on 1.8 and in my bios ram divider options r quite limited, i have 100, 133 (i think not sure), 166, and 200
how do i enable othe options? or do i need a diff bios?
also from wht i can gather sideeffect, my ram is 505
Lastly hnx to lestat and sideeffect for all the info...will post screenies if i hit anything to be proud off tho i have take 250 htt screenie, and am savin up for psu n cooling, a hyper 6 maybe so hopefully ill get 2.6 prime stable, thnx `1nce again
ali
Thanks for taking a look at it.
aguila -
that ram thats 2-3-2 is only good for 2-3-2 up to about 210mhz(correct me if im wrong but thats only tccd ram) plus your using 2 1 gig sticks which is harder to overclock on this board or any board really. it takes more power to run a gig stick.
so anything above 230mhz you will have to run 2.5-3-3-10. and since its one gigi sticks your probably gunna have to run 3-4-4-10. just play around. But you also have ram and cpu voltages to think about also.
you also have a 3800 X2 now no one said they are good overclockers. as you read around you'll probably start seeing that many of the X2's arent very good oc'ers. but that could be cuz of the bios or the mobo.
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The NEO2 is old,, too old to be running an X2 on, i dont care what MSI thinks or does with this board or bios isnt designed for a dual core processor.
Go get yourself a DFI or ASUS pci-e board.
now i would say yank 1 stick of ram out and see how far you can get. dont forget 2.5-3-3-10 or looser.
sideeffect if your comfortable with what you've done to that bios let me have it. i'd like to see what she does with this venice.
I am sitting at 10x260 right now with a 166 divider at 2.5-3-3-9 at 1T. My experience with this cpu so far has been pretty good. I use my system primarily for video/audio encoding/conversion so the x2 and extra gig of ram made a heck of a difference. As far as the board, I had a dfi and I will not own another dfi nf3 ultra board. It has some major problems. I ended up sending it back for this neo2. I will stick with the neo2 until I get ready to get rid of my 6800gt agp card and go pci. Then I will go with dfi again for their nf4 lan party board. I had one of the dfi lp nf3 250 boards and it was great but as I said the nf3 ultra by dfi was a big snafu.
Well so far
enabled 183 divider (dunno what it will do)
enabled +13 +15 +18 (same dunno if it works)
enabled Acpi function in power management
enabled power manage
enabled video off
enabled hdd power down
enabled WOR wake up event
enabled cpu internal external cache on or off
enabled Hdd block mode
enabled all available memory settings
disabled temps in bios
disabled full screen logo
disabled-12 volt
disabled ATI/nvidia speedup
disabled 213 233 and 250 dividers
disabled small logo
Basically all those things i enabled are to keep things from being hidden you still get to choose what to select. The things i disabled wont show for various reason either they dont work or are annoying.
Im not done with this bios yet im going to hax in some better timings for the memory in all the dividers. I also have the acpi tables all the roms etc.
sideeffect when you get a sec. list what memory options MSI was so kind to hide from us ;) id be interested to see whats really hidden inside that bios.
Aquila -
yeah i had the UT 250GB ith my clawhammer system and it honestly was the 2nd bet mobo i ever owned. the 1st was an MSI 865PE NEO2 FIS2R. that motherboard was just impressive to say the least.
but yes what your doing that 2 gigs of ram is necessary i simply wanted to get you to play around with things.
drop 1 stick and see what it does 1:1 then run 166 and see.
frankly right now i'd drop the ram down to 133 and see how much further you can take it.
I dont know im just not ready to fork over more for a cpu that the only thing that uses both those cores is Windows itself and video editing, cuz games really dont use it yet, although i imagine if the game is coded for Intel HT then it should work better with the X2 but i cant confirm that.
well play around let us know.. Also what are your temps at ? your on air ?
I am on air. Right now the idle is 39c and load with both cores priming is 47c. I am going to save up and fork out the dough for one of the new zalman 9500's when they are available. I do some messing around with the memory tomorrow and let you know what I find out. One of the memory settings that it sets too aggressive is the write to read delay time. It sets this to 1. When I change it to 2 I can push my ram a little further.
Well by default msi hides all the settings for memory more or less but the mod bios files already have them showing or u can unhide them yourself like with ati speed. The only new memory timing that i found that isnt in the bios is max async latency and read preamble. It has all the options but its not linked to the bios yet.
Going to try and add that in. The other timings have to be added like nfm did.
Lestat do you have a bios saviour/ Spare chip?
Edit the 150 divider may also be available. wtf is this hmm seems there is a setting under cas 2 that can be enabled also but i doupt cas 1.5 works on nforce3 so why did msi add the setting. Well who knows.
I guess I should read up some on bios editing myself and see what I can do.
if you set CAS 1.5 with A64 tweeker CPU-Z shows a blank entry i did that with the Mushkin and then did Sandra and there was no speed difference so i doubt its enabled.
Now, programming wise, mose the sweet settings are all set as reserved. So setting then as not reserved would, or should be possible by removing the reserved "flag". but i would also assume that they are linked alse where to so that you may have to enable those settings in more than 1 place in order for then to fully be available.
Sideeffect - so your saying that all the memory settings that we have seen so far is all that MSI incudes ? wow thats pretty crappy. i was really hoping that we would see all the DFI settings in the MSI bios but just hidden.
Again speaking from a limited programming point of view, would it be possible to take the DFI bios and set it side by side with the MSI and simply add in the values from the DFI into the MSI ?
All in all in the end im pretty sure it would take someone with the money to call Award and have them create a custom bios for this board. Which its my understanding i THINK they can infact do. but MSI may have a binding contract that they can not do that for anyone but MSI.
I personally think its time we add in some extra stuff and get rid of others.
All the comport and LPT port and IR port stuff,, get rid of it,, delete it.
ATI/NV speed up. Remove it
Auto overclocking, all items related to AUTO overclocking remove it.
i mean frankly look at all the stuff if you dont use it get rid of it. totally delete it out. or hide it.
I want Memtest put in there,, lol.
now this is a total longshot.... BUT... what about integrating some sort of bios level A64tweaker. ?
If A64tweaker can control all of those settings then frankly all of those settings can be manually added into the bios. A64 tweaker doesnt talk to a driver or the regestry or anything it shoots a bullet right into the core, the memory controller itself and possible sections of the bios itself. It's more or less nothing more than adding those address ranges and hex values into the bios. Which brings me back to comparing a DFI award bios and an MSI award bios and stripping the DFI and adding them to the MSI.
just all food for thought andi wish i had the knowledge and programming skills to do it.
Side effect no i dont have a spare flash chip. i frankly am almost done with this board and moving on to a DFI Ultra-D NF4 but while i have it ill try not to fry it lol.
I simply meant when your comfortable that your hacked bios is usable and wont instantly cause a bad flash throw it to me ill test it out.
I tried to add lines of code to the bios and it just messes it all up. So i cant add the DFI timings for example. But some things are already in here that just arent linked up which i think i can do something about them.
Yes i was also thinking along your lines of a slimed down version of the bios with all the junk removed like auto overclocking junk ati speedup junk and power savings.
Id also like to reorganise it a bit to make it more user friendly and have default settings that dont plain suck :p:.
The settings from athlon 64 can be kind of added but not the variables. Like i can add a setting not a choice of settings. Adding memtest is possible ill ask around about it i dont know how to do it personally.
As soon as i have a good bios ill test it out and if my pc doesnt implode/explode and things work ok ill release it.
The cas 1.5 setting in athlon 64 tweaker has a star next to it because its deactivated so wont work. But if i activate the setting it might work. But do what? Who knows gonna activate it anyway cause im curious.
I can also activate the tras settings lower than 5 also. I think ive read somewhere that the cas 1.5 is a chipset limitation so i really dont think it will work. Same with trcd 1 and trp 1
yeah as far as i know the NF4 are the only ones that can do 1.5
hhmm odd that it cant have added entries.... only changed values of exsisting entries.
I would say kick out everything that you dont use and unhide everything that should be.
the whole memtest thing i think is only available for 4meg romchips.not sure if ours is but i dont think it is , is it ? im probably wrong on that whole thing but i think there actually has to be room in the rom to add a huge chunck like memtest.
then there is actually getting it to work it didnt even work 90% of the time on the DFI board.
Yes it is 4mb. Yes adding text to the bios throws it all out of alignment. So i enabled 150 and 183 divider only 183 shows in text 150 is blank but selectable. When i added the 150mhz text it messed everything up
Ill keep trying to see if theres anything that can be done. Im getting some more tools also to help me do things.
I enabled 1.5 cas but its still unselectable so i guess its not really there after all. Still trying to get Async and read preamble to show dont know why it isnt and the other memory timings are showing.
Version 1A has gone final
1A has gone final Aug.16 and is availible on MSI USA .
MSI though has again forgotten to enable USB 1.1+2.0 as selectable
and the enhanced memory timings and the usual stuff is hidden .
Modded versions that gives you full control is availible
Follow this thread
http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=59711.0
syar did they notify Murdock so he can tell the msi coders ? and have them pull it from the website and fix the stupid bios ?
They told Murdock to create bug reports and submit them but are they listening ?
sounds more like a "we will let them think they are helping but in reality we dont care what problems they have"
wow thanks MSI for listening to us and ACTUALLY FIXING THIS GOD DAMN PIECE OF SH|TE FVCKING BIOS/MOBO YOU GIVE US!!!Quote:
2. This BIOS fixes the following problem of the previous version:
- Update CPU ID for AMD E6 CPU.
How bout fixing the tmep bug
how bout fixing Cold boot issues when OC'd
how bout fixing voltages
how bout fixing -12v readout
how bout fixing the thing so its actually a respectable bios.
every bios you release you do nothing but lose customers to other motherboard makers.
Sideeffect -
just a thought, if your adding text instead of changing whats already there is it messing with the CRC/Signature of the rom ? almost sounds like it is. do you bios tools resign the bios ?
frankly everytime i flash with one of the modded bios's i get a Bios CRC error, Defaults Loaded error when i reboot. this hasnt seemed to cause any issues, but if its programmed to see a certain CRC value and its not seeing it.... well....
What kind of agreement murdok have i'm not sure about.
If it's codename 1A0 it's final , nothing can change that.
Further work must be done with a new 1Bx version.
-I'm not aware of any temp bug , unless you are adressing negative temps .
-Fixing the -12v readout ?
Why , it's not used to anything and thats the reason it's hidden .
As for the crc error it's because your flash method keeps the old cmos checksum
Flash properly with shutdown and sby-power removed .
Other than that I agree that their BIOSes needs more work .
i have no idea what your talking aboutQuote:
Flash properly with shutdown and sby-power removed .
the -12v WAS reading at -7vQuote:
-Fixing the -12v readout ?
the temp bug was bad temp readings. like 5-8 deg too high. but i see now its fixed.Quote:
-I'm not aware of any temp bug , unless you are adressing negative temps
Murdock reports to MSI bios issues. I never said he has an agreement but he talks to them and he has said many times that MSI wants us to be more specific about errors that he reports. Maybe HE is saying that but i might be german but i dont speak german so babelfish may be translating it wrong.
Overall fellas i now think i am chaning my recommended bios.
This bios STILL does not allow me to use my Promise TX2 IDE card if i have power plugged into the hard drive thats hooked to the IDE card the system will not boot to any hd or cdrom or floppy. I need this drive but i dont like using onboard ide as its slower and uses more resources and CPU cycles.
Anyways, i am now at 285mhz 2.5-4-4-10 1T with the OCZ PC4800 Plat. no other bios lets me go this high. I was stuck at 2.5-4-3-10 @ 270mhz before so this is a nice increase, but just like the other guy said im pretty sure its cuz NFM and murdock forced memory settings on us that were to tight. but i cant verify that so its only a guess.
It also totally rearranged my IRQ's which i am NOT happy about. My 6800 Ultra now shares the same IRQ as the SMBus which for those of you who dont know what that is, thats the PCI bus controller which having a 6800 Ultra and the SMBus on the same IRQ, well lets say thats a bad thing. But ill have to run some benches to find out.
so.. inshort, if this bios stays this good then i am definately liking it. But i wont use it for very long because i cant use my IDE controller card... if they can get that fixed then i would start recommending this bios.
Bios modders open the -12v to be visible .
To open it is useless as the -12v isn't used in modern systems to anything.
-5v and -12v is only provided on PSUs for backwards compablity to atx boards.
And i'm aware that it shows -7v , but i don't believe this is an issue
worth adressing over the other important ones.
To have a clean cmos after flash turn the system off + remove power
to the PSU instead of letting it restart .
This followed by a bootup to bios and load optimized defaults and
letting it boot again to build dmi pool is proved to be the best method.
I also have a pci sata SIL addon card to be able to use four disks without using sata1/2 .
For me it's impossible to boot from any drives connected to it with nvraid enabled .
If i disable nvraid the disks will show in hd boot order , if not
only nvraid is listed .
I've not tried any high overclocks with it yet .
well mines an IDE card not SATA. but yes the issue seems to be that the add-on card might be interfering with the onboard ide or for you SATA.
i do not use the nvraid only sata. its always disabled.
ill disable the SATA in the bios and only use my promise TX2 card and see if it boots.
ill report back.
You gotta love those changelogs that msi provides. Apparantly the only thing they did was
- Update CPU ID for AMD E6 CPU
Now this took them about 6 weeks and 4 betas to accomplish :rolleyes:
no fair i already said that lol.
yeah real nice to know what was supposedly fixed cuz i dont think they've ever really fixed anything have they ? they've only made other things broken or they remove an import feature like PRESS INSERT TO GO INTO SAFE MODE WHEN YOUR OVERCLOCK FAILS!!! AARRGG I HATE YOU MSI FOR REMOVING THAT YOU BLOOMING IDIOTS!!!!!!
1/2 CPU Multipliers,, again my hatred runs deep towards you MSI
hows your testing going SE ?
i also disabled the primary IDE and the SATA 1 2 3 4 and it still wont let me use my Promise U133 TX2 IDE card,, that pisses me off ya know....
Havnt tested it yet. Im going to mod it first then test it. Im a little scared to though i havnt had very good luck with any bios since 1.8. But seeing as how it improved your overclock i can only guess that the updated cpuid helps newer cpus.
The memory timings wernt that tight in nfm modded bios so i dont think that explains your performance increase.
If you can get stable at 285 are you still going to go to DFI Lestat because imo thats not a bad overclock.
I was told that the half multi's didn't work with a64's. SideEffect let me know when you get your mod bios ready for testing. That 150 divider would be great for my system.
The .5 multis work just fine with athlon 64 all the bios versions before 1.9. They removed them from the 1.9 and over bios's.
The values are completely gone so cant be enabled.
I was told in another forum the .5 multis actually used the next highest whole number for all of the settings.
Yes i think it did. But that made a big difference because it made options unavailable available.
Some combinations of cpu ram speed cant be got with the 166 133 divider unless you use .5 multis so the motherboard must be setting 150 or 183 divider to keep the spec.
As 183/150 dividers aren't available to be set the .5 dividers are a kinda hack to allow it. I guess msi thought that they would just enable the 183/150 divider and do away with the .5 multis. But they did away with the multis but didnt add the dividers. I hope that i can enable the divider again.
For example 310 x 10.5 = 3150 mhz cpu speed with a 166 divider ram = 242.3
286 x 11 = 3146 mhz cpu speed with a 183 divider ram = 242
So if the multi is raising from 10.5 to 11 then the neo2 must be using the 183 divider to keep the ram in spec.
Ok im running my modded bios now. The extra voltage settings dont work. Shame that.
However the 183 divider hack does work and im now running in a 183 divider set with bios :p:
Going to test 150 divider now.
Going to make a few changes then ill post bios.
yes all the 1/2 multiplier does is use the 183 divider.
thats what all the amd64 boards do. all 1.2 cpu multipliers use a 183 divider.
technically its not even a 183 divider its more than that i believe.
but anyways they are absolute fools for removing the 1/2 multiplier.. it is and dont say im synical its fvcking retarded same as its retarded to remove the "press insert for safe mode" that is a fvcking life savor and they took it away cuz they are bloody retards.
And now they have made it so you cant even use a PCI SATA or IDE card,,, what kind of b.s. is that i mean really.
the NVRaid is crap, its slow and poop compared the the Sil, Promise, Highpoint and other SATA controllers.
BUT i wll say this..... whatever they did i can get better ram freq. but like i said earlier i think it was never MSI i think it was NFM and Murdock locking those 2 and 3 ram settings so we couldnt change them in the bios. it was too tight.. expecially for TCCD ram.
but so far so good.
Lastly im not happy with the NVraid rom thats in this bios. its definately has some speed and cache issues compared to the others. The hard drive isnt pulling up apps and windows as fast as before. not sure what it is as ive never seen an nvraid rom but something is definately not right with my Raptor performance now.
OK 150 and 183 dividers now work in my modded bios. Going to make a few changes then ill post bios.
Lestat if you want another nvraid rom in a custom bios that can be done easily. However it might just be a problem with the latancy. Use powerstrip to set latency and use hdtach or atto diskbench to record differences.
Murdock never released a bios with modified memory timings and NFM did his mods with a ISA hack and the timings were looser than msi's in all the dividers.
The pre 1.9 bios files didnt have any memory timings for the modders to change so it was all msi's fault that they were to tight.
However the 1.9 / 1.A timings are a touch looser than the 1.8. However i think your performance gain is due to the improved venice support in the newer bios.
the gain is 100% memory i didnt gain anything on my cpu.
No Lestat the memory controller is on the cpu so any improvements to the cpuid will effect support for the venice hence support of the memory controller hence better ram speed.
My bios is ready to be used by anyone who may wish to use it. Its been tested by me and works fine but as always the risk is yours to take.
In my knowledge this is the first neo 2 bios to allow 183 and 150 dividers to be set in the bios.
Hope you enjoy it get it from here Download
I just downloaded it. I will give a try tomorrow. Great work getting the 2 new dividers added in. On another note, what exactly does the ati/nvidia speedup do that fastwrites doesn't do?
ATI/Nvidia speed up overclocks the video card by about 5 percent over stock values. The problem is if you have already found your maximum gpu overclock which most people have then this setting will push the card over the edge and you will get graphics errors.
Fast writes is a setting which allows faster access to the graphics card ram. However in the real world the performance effect is 0 and you can lose stability its widely accepted to disable fast writes on all graphics cards.
I set the default to off for fast writes but you can turn it back on in bios.
Does the memdivider 150+183 really work??? Murdock tried it also but they did not work, u just could select it at the bios but 150 gone 166 and 183 gone 200 ??
Great Work Side effect...
any other specefic features u made for this bios?
and which original bios did u modify?
Great ! I can re-test my overclock ... it's possible to tune SideEffect's bios (I think NFM can :) no ? ) these values :) :
Read Write Queue Bypass to 16x
Bypass Max to 7x
Idle Cycle Counter to 256clks
and why not Read Preamble to 5.5ns ... or leave default, what you think ?
ok check this
10x cpu
183 = 188
9x cpu
183 = 185
thats kind of a rough estimate as im still trying to figure out what its doing.
10x cpu 275HTT = 250mhz ram
9x cpu 275 HTT = 248mhz ram
8x cou 275 HTT = 245mhz ram
the cpu multiplier is changing the memory frequency. which MAY be why they never enabled it. They cant get it to hold the freq like 200 166 and 133
so far i dont see anything different with this bios and the original. other than the obvious removal of a few items. (thanks btw for that!!)
SE i thought you had enabled some more memory settings ? or did you say you tried but it wouldnt work.?
and as for my comment about overclocking. I know the memcontroller is ondie i simply meant that this bios is giving me more memory overclock. i havent gained or lost any overclock on the cpu. Other than now im stuck back at 1.65v being the max vcore.
hhmm ive lost about ohh 300+ on sandra running the same settings as murdocks.
SE is there some setting that you have in the memory that is pretty loose ?
i was running 2.5-4-4-10 @ 275mhz and getting 71XX in sandra
now im getting 6800~6900 give or take.
take a look at my A64 tweaker and tell me what i can do to either keep the same HTT and get more performance orrrr.... get a higher HTT/Mem without running 2T... i just wont run 2T lol.
i can adjust the 2.5 to 3 and the other 3 values ( 4-4-10 ) and not really get alot more, i didnt know if there was something in the bios right now that i can adjust or something with A64 tweaker that i can adjust. to get it higher than 275 2.5-4-4-10
I just havent had a need to know about those other values before thats why i never really learned what adjusting them does or i'd do it myself lol.
Nice work :) Sideeffect , been missing the 183 for a long time !
Lestat !
Multiplier 8 gives the following 183 divider : 9
Multiplier 9 gives the following 183 divider : 10
Multiplier 10 gives the following 183 divider : 11
Actual ramspeed is cpufreq/divider
8*275 =2200mhz , ram freq= 2200/9 ~ 244.44mhz
9*275 =2475mhz , ram freq= 2475/10 ~ 247.5mhz
10*275 =2750mhz , ram freq= 2750/11 ~ 250mhz
So it looks like it's okay
Divider tables here :
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=41595
hhmm i dont recall my DFI dropping the ram Freq when you dropped the cpu multiplier but then again i probably didnt pay THAT much attention to 3mhz.
i simply commented on that as a curiosity not an issue. but its good to know thats the way its suppose to be.
i need to do more testing BUT....
i lost 1000 points in 3dmark 05
i lost 2000 points in 3dmark 03
i didnt lose anything in Aquamark really maybe 1500 from a high 75k to a low 74k. but thats minimal.
I did install the new nvidia 78.11 drivers which has an insane Image Quality setting and color saturation even when the Nvisia control panel is set the total performance.
Also Triple buffering does not work on the drivers so that maybe causing abig hit.
last i did try 512 meg 256meg and 128meg AGP aperture and it didnt change.
512meg aperture used to increase 3dmark 05 scores but it didnt help.
again it may just be the drivers but i benched yesterday and i was getting my usually crappy score of 57xx with 3dmark 05.
I say crappy cuz with my old 754 3200 clawhammer and a 6800 GT i used to get over 6100 in 3dmark '05.
but anyways.
no issues so far other than wanting to squeeze some more hz out of my ram..
Yes ill work on memory timings next.
Yes the 183 150 dividers really do work. They dont show the correct changes in the bios. Load windows with the 183 divider set and load athlon 64 tweaker and you will see it has set the 183 divider. It has no problem holding the frequancy and is exactly the memory frequancy you would expect from the 183 divider if you dont believe me use This tool it will show you what frequancy you will get in a certain motherboard with a certain memory clock set. Tick DFI to allow it to show the 183 and 150 dividers. The speeds it sets corolate perfectly with what the bios sets.
Lestat the memory timings are all available to be changed in bios theres no reason why another 1.A would be faster with the same timings.
Losing 1000 marks in 2005 is loads are you talking about 1.8 vs 1.A or are you talking about my bios vs murdoks.
Or is it because your IRQ is sharing the graphics card with the smbus like you were saying before.
Im going to benchmark now and test this.
Edit - I get about the same results with 3dmark 2003 as i did with the 1.8 bios. If you get lower i think its due to the IRQ. My graphics card is still on its own IRQ in 1.A bios.
I won't get to do anything until this afternoon but I will flash it then and see how the dividers are doing for me. Thanks for the work on this!
The 150 divider boots with quite tight timings like the 166 im going to try my best to fix that today and release a rev 2 bios.
the 183 divider boots with lovely timings the same as 200.
Ok im going to try to force
write to Read delay (Twtr) = 2
Read/Write Qued Bypass = 16
Bypass Max = 7
Maximum Async Latency = 8
idle cycle limit = 256
In all dividers. Does that sound ok to everyone?
Whats with everyone and this 256 idle cycle limit myth .
There are trade-offs if the counter is set too high since it may interfere with DRAM refresh. Empirically, we have found that a value between 16 and 64 cycles will give the highest performance in e.g. gaming applications .
(lostcircuits)
I would like to have it left on 16clks .
Ill leave that at default then. From what i heard it helps stability in tccd ram at higher clocks. In my experiance it makes no difference in stability on my Crucial ballistix.
The main settings that i really want to change are max async because 7ns can be to tight if you want to run high mhz ram speeds. And Write to read delay (Twtr) because it defaults to 1 in 166 150 divider and that can limit the overclock. The other settings i have seen no benifit or deficit in changing.
Edit - ok i have hacked the new memory timings in going to test bios then release rev2
Just had a try of last sideffect modded bios : 150 option is not listed (only 100, 133, 166, 183 and 200), but 183 option did work well, I'm now running my X2-4200+ at 240 x 11, RAM is at 203.1 Mhz. I'll try higher HTT @ x10 later. CPU voltage (as read in bios and with CPU-Z) dropped by 0.05 to 0.1 v when I select 1.55 vcore +10% (it is at 1.55, was about 1.6 to 1.63 with 1.A3 with the same settings).
Another good news : it also seems that the cold bug disappeared, as I now can cold boot without problem at those settings (I had to reset CMOS at those with crappy 1.9 and 1.Ax).
Thanks for the work !