Apogee GTZ

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08-05-2008, 03:17 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazgirl

I do wish they would hurry up and release some info though, I need to know if there'll be an optional AM2 mounting kit for it

yes, and AM2 plate will be available, but possibly a little late (2 weeks maximum) compared to block release date.
08-05-2008, 03:19 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

That was his goal. Come here get you excited with a false release date, your mouth starts watering, then you start jonesing for his block. It's called marketing my friend.

I can assure you that this is an entirely wrong assumption. In fact, I will be able to prove it thru independant third party testimonial soon.
08-05-2008, 03:33 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoffey

I'm a little shocked that this was released. Of well, that's the WC'ing business for you. And I wouldn't believe everything you read;)

andyc

Andy, this was completely unauthorized. Even the info published by the British site was unauthorized, since all communications to the dealers have been confidential. I am quite upset about this. I uploaded the page to the web server temporarily to check out some changes, and he must have been fishing at the right time :(
08-05-2008, 03:37 PM
71 (Bryan)

so how restrictive will this block be?
08-05-2008, 03:38 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

I'm just really happy to see some manufacturer tested data. Happy to see it and would encourage more....that's awesome!:clap:

I personally would like to learn more about how they do this sort of testing. All the typical questions come to mind.

- Is multiple mounting done when this sort of testing takes place?
- What sort of mounting pressure is applied?
- What sort of thermal compound is used and what method of application?
- Is the processor IHS stock or lapped?
- On the fuzion block was the quad nozzle or any nozzle used?
- The temperatures we're seeing, are they an average of core temps, or some sort of probe inserted somewhere?
- If the temps are core temperatures, which software and how long are these logged for and averaged?
- What is being used to "Load" the processor? Is there some sort of warm up time that's standard.
- What does the 30C mean, is that water temperature?

We're all struggling to figure out the best way to test these things third party, it would be awesome to better understand how it's done by the industry.:up:

Just getting ready to start in on my second round and trying to sort out the testing methods...

I think we could definitely do that.
08-05-2008, 03:44 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71 (Bryan)

so how restrictive will this block be?

let me put it that way: we have SPARED NO EXPENSE to make it reasonable.
08-05-2008, 03:59 PM
71 (Bryan)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

The tester either feels an obligation to post beneficial results or you choose the results that benefit your product.

imo if you give one to martin he will not be baised, we all know him well enough that he will tell us the truth and nothing but the truth
08-05-2008, 04:10 PM
71 (Bryan)

srry, didnt see that
08-05-2008, 05:03 PM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

I've been in marketing and sales for 12 years, no company I've worked for had less than $50 mill in annual sales. All were and still are closely held private companies. That statement was not meant to flame, only point out the obvious, to the non-marketing types on this forum. You clearly stated and the beginning of this thread that you were coming here like your competitors, to announce a "new" design of yours. That, my friend Is called marketing major props on the hype you created

As far as independent testing goes, if you provided the tester with a sample, whether or not they could keep it, then the test is biased.

The tester either feels an obligation to post beneficial results or you choose the results that benefit your product. An independent test will be when people buy the block themselves and test it, no bias that way. I'm buying one of your blocks, whenever it's released, and will have a third party test it against the EK Supreme and FuZion v2. Out of my own pocket, then I'll know the true results for myself.

I really like your design, a melding of the Supreme and FuZion, very nice.....

BTW, can you fit BP 1/2" x 3/4" compressions on the GTZ?

Reading your comments I don't know how you could be happy or assured with anyones results.
If you pay a third party then by your own logic he would want to satisfy you so that you would bring him additional business.

Gentlemen: Where has trust gone?
Has anyone ever seen this man lie to us?
Date's on products being available can and do change.
Bringing a product to market is a HUGE undertaking.
The design,manufacturer,testing, packaging and then getting your outlets up to speed on the item. All of these areas pose the potential for issues to arise and delay the proposed dates of release.
It bothers me to see any company rep on this forum treated as if he/she is lying to us even if the words are veiled.
Every one of these people and every member here is entitled to courtesy and respect. Ask the questions yes, but in a way that there is no veiled sarcasm or discourtesy. We may be an outlet for their products and that is the business end but I assure you, it is they doing us the favor by coming here and I doubt the money they make from just what is read here would either make or break their businesses.
What I'm trying to say is before you post, take the time to read that post to yourself and try to see it as if your the person it's addressed to.
08-05-2008, 05:25 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

I've been in marketing and sales for 12 years, no company I've worked for had less than $50 mill in annual sales. All were and still are closely held private companies. That statement was not meant to flame, only point out the obivous, to the non-marketing types on this forum. You clearly stated and the begining of this thread that you were coming here like your competitors, to announce a "new" design of yours. That, my friend Is called marketing major props on the hype you created

As far as independent testing goes, if you provided the tester with a sample, whether or notthey could keep it, then the test is biased.

The tester either feels an obligation to post beneficial results or you choose the results that benefit your product. An independent test will be when people buy the block themselves and test it, no bias that way. I'm buying one of your blocks, whenever it's released, and will have a third partytest it against the EK Supreme and FuZion v2. Out of my own pocket, then I'll know the true results for myself.

I really like your design, a melding of the Supreme and FuZion, very nice.....

BTW, can you fit BP 1/2" x 3/4" compressions on the GTZ?

I would like to see some of your test/results.

And not TC PA120.3 or any EK FTW!!!!!!!!! shistuff.

Thing you need to understand besides saying:up: or:down: or FTW!!!
all the time is, how about some basic results from your personal experience
with whatever hardware you use.

What is and isnt good.

The more users here or at any other forum who post their experiences
is what desides what products are up to the task.
08-05-2008, 05:25 PM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Ok People, sorry for disappearing for a week, but it's been quite busy around here.

1/ I owe the XS members an apology for jumping the guns a bit concerning product release. We expect to start shipping to the dealers next week.

2/ The information presented by cooling masters coming from unpublished data on our site is unauthorized, unnoficial, and incorrect! It WILL change at the time of release. For example, I can tell you now that pressure drop curves in particular are completely wrong. I am asking members of XS and readers to disregard any information that is not officially published on the Swiftech site.

Thanks for ending the speculation Gabe! Glad to see you're back as well.
08-05-2008, 05:32 PM
71 (Bryan)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Ok People, sorry for disappearing for a week, but it's been quite busy around here.

1/ I owe the XS members an apology for jumping the guns a bit concerning product release. We expect to start shipping to the dealers next week.

2/ The information presented by cooling masters coming from unpublished data on our site is unauthorized, unnoficial, and incorrect! It WILL change at the time of release. For example, I can tell you now that pressure drop curves in particular are completely wrong. I am asking members of XS and readers to disregard any information that is not officially published on the Swiftech site.

no prob bob
08-05-2008, 06:01 PM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

As far as independent testing goes, if you provided the tester with a sample, whether or notthey could keep it, then the test is biased.

The tester either feels an obligation to post beneficial results or you choose the results that benefit your product. An independent test will be when people buy the block themselves and test it, no bias that way. I'm buying one of your blocks, whenever it's released, and will have a third partytest it against the EK Supreme and FuZion v2. Out of my own pocket, then I'll know the true results for myself.

RRR, here is a point we disagree on. As someone who is just starting out in the independent testing/review arena I cannot speak on experience of testing WC gear, but I can draw from my ethics and work experience.

Being an independent tester, you work for the community not a vendor or manufacturer. You have to test that particular product in the same manner you have tested all others of the same type in order to draw a comparison and build the historical data. As an independent tester it is a requirement that you be fair and equal to all products and tests, regardless of how the specific product arrived on your test bench. All of the gear I will be using for testing is funded by me (and my wife) presently. Now if my tests and data that I present to the community means companies would like to send me a sample for testing, thats great...but the data cannot be fudged, that is the only way you will earn the respect of the community. And if the numbers are tweaked for the specific company, others in the community will bust you on it and there goes your credibility and trust you spent all that time and money building.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

BTW, can you fit BP 1/2" x 3/4" compressions on the GTZ?

And this is a perfect example of something an independent tester/reviewer would be able to tell you!
08-05-2008, 06:51 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoffey

1c or 2c either way, who gives a :banana::banana::banana::banana: anymore.
andyc

huh, how about we do ? :yepp:

I don't think you really meant it that way ;)

There is passion in what we do; that passion derives from our competitive spirit. The minute we stop competing and pushing ourselves to the limit, we just .. decay ?
08-05-2008, 07:01 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

huh, how about we do ? :yepp:

I don't think you really meant it that way ;)

There is passion in what we do; that passion derives from our competitive spirit. The minute we stop competing and pushing ourselves to the limit, we just .. decay ?

I have the all in one pump/cpu block plus a D-tek v2 and mc350 pump.
Have ran both of them on the same Q66 plus 88gtx.

I dont see much difference in tempuratures.

I like them both.
08-05-2008, 07:43 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoffey

Yeah,

In regards to tester miss representing data or testing. Why would anyone miss represent 1 or 2 c. Not worth it in the long run, or short for that matter.

andyc

I always figure around 1c or 2 to 3f to be the tolerance.
Most everything has a certain tolerance.

So yeah i dont really worry about an extra 1c or 100mhz.
08-05-2008, 07:44 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Martin PM me your email address plz, you apparently are not accepting PM's...

You have PM..

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

I think we could definitely do that.

Thanks Gabe!

Everytime I do a new set of testing, I'm always trying to learn from the previous round. I think this next round I'm going to follow nicksub1's 5 mount method again, but I'm also going to add in testing with two levels of pumping power to see if there is any worthwhile gains with than, and also see if there is any ranking reversals with the different pumping powers.

Obviously we're not going to have access to the high quality equipement that you do, but it might give us an idea where we can improve our own methods.:up:

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