I'm not defending anyone as I dislike this as much as any of you do but there is no need for this "feeding frenzy" that I see taking place here.
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I'm not defending anyone as I dislike this as much as any of you do but there is no need for this "feeding frenzy" that I see taking place here.
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
I hope so cause I sure as hell ain't browsing RRR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Carry on as usual :up: Let's keep the derailment to a minimum though.
Good job Chris, very good job.
Are you really such a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: in person or are you just a keyboard warrior? All I've seen lately from you is a bunch of barking across multiple forums. Now, I can't decide if your post is an attempt to circumvent the language filter or just really terrible spelling. Let me think about it a bit and get back to you. Anything further you have to say to me can be carried out in PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
It's pathetic really :/
Everyone who keeps moaning about skinnee, he shouldn't have done it, and he shouldn't be allowed to get away with it just cos he contributes a lot.
He still broke the rules same as the others.
:shrug: So.... It's okay to "disable post processing" in a benchmark and win a contest... AND NOT GET BANNED because the rules weren't specific... :shrug:
But, as far as I can tell... Did Andre actually cheat with any of HIS submissions? If not, why is HE banned?
Yeah, if the case of hardware sharing/selling is true then ofcourse he should have known better... but then again, if you "disable post processing" in a benchmark you should also know better...
It may seem like I'm an Andre Fanboy, but that's not the case here... I'm just stating what I believe to be the facts from reading archives in various forums. ;)
He is banned cos he shared scores? Thats the rule he broke.
I wonder what Vapor has to say as far as skinnee's results when it comes the reviews.
Deep breath my friend. I didn't see anything negative in what he said and as I told him in a PM a few mins back,I thought some of his posts were excellent in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler
To bad it happend, but there's still another day after every day......
I would personally like to hear what Andre has to say for himself
And would very much like to ask him if this has ever occurred before, as he may be more willing to admit now that this has all come out...
Wow, lots of hatred and dirty laundry in this thread.... :shakes:
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Imho banning is well-deserved for what they did, but why is everyone questioning skinnee's review capabilities now? As this is entirely non-related to this topic.
Because it is a mark against his ethics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Dan
He may be a great reviewer. But reviewers need to be trusted. Which he can not be now.
ok i respect all the names that were band, but there is no excuse whatsoever, but what about those guys who were boughting results ??? who are they ??
good job in investigation by the way, i am sure there are more scores done this way but this another time...
I've been watching this for a while and I think a lot of people's anger is well-placed. However, as the saying goes: "It's only wrong once you get caught". I personally have to wonder how much more of these shenanigans are going on behind the scenes at various levels without being picked up.
This has given a black eye to online overclocking competitions and professional overclocing in general IMO. As such, I think that HWBot and others (props to Charles for doing the right thing) should come down like a ton of bricks here in order to discourage further abuse. The only problem is that nothing really "governs" the online overclocking community per se.
I am not suggesting an outright banning of AY from HWBot....just a zeroing of his points to date. This isn't the type of thing which can be let slide or be handled with a simple slap on the wrist. Then again, he has contributed massively to the community as a whole so factoring in his past help and aid growing the OCing community is needed.
Skinnee's reviews shouldn't be held in contempt in any way, shape or form. I will agree with you on that one. What we have is a questioning of objectivity over something completely unrelated which shouldn't be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Dan
I don't really have time to read through every post on this subject here, but if the guy who shared the scores gets a lifetime ban, I assume the ones who actually published them get the same penalty?
Bummerness all around :(
The others won't be banned for long.
i wonder what kingpin is thinking.
wasnt andre on his team?
I'd reckon he's thinking "ah FECK! damn bone-head, ugh!" :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
He'll just unbann himself and also get a new FM key? That wont work :(
IDK, I see where you and Dave are coming from but people have a right to vent their shock and anger at this outrage. And it's not as though there is a lot of personal attacks and name-calling going on. Though I agree it's probably only fair and prudent to separate this from skinnee's lc work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Dan
WTF.
Andre banned? HIWA banned? :shakes::shakes:
:(
Yup, I'm still doing CPU and TIM testing that gets posted on skinneelabs.com :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondacity
If skinnee has a result to post during his ban, I can post it here (GTX480 reviews will be done shortly--all the data level stuff is done, just the actual writing of reviews is left). And of course he can post his own tests and reviews on the site he owns :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
skinneelabs has never received payment for any of our tests or reviews. Per FCC rules, full disclosure is required for what financial stake or benefit reviewers/bloggers have regarding what the review materials. skinneelabs has complied the entire time by stating in the review what was received and from where and has never received more than review material hardware.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal-EL
The value of review hardware received vs. time consumed testing, writing, etc. makes minimum wage look generous. And then when the testing and writing is done, almost all of the hardware goes and sits in a closet waiting to be tested again later against newer products or with improved test equipment.
100% of the results on skinneelabs.com are unaltered, non-manipulated, unbiased, and clean. Uploading and taking credit for a 3DMark06 score that wasn't his is the only time I've ever skinnee have a lapse in judgement--unfortunately it was a huge lapse in judgement with huge repercussions.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautam
The 1 year ban is an HWBot ban....the ban on XS is significantly shorter for all but Andre.
Why? :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
Quite interesting - good job on the investigation by all involved. It's quite sad that people would stoop so low
I ask myself the same question - what Andre did was definately bad, but the guys who received the scores are the ones who actually posted them and created the whole thing. They did have at least two chances to stop this nonsense - either by not accepting the scores, or by not uploading them at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gappo
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by knopflerbruce
Possession is 9/10th's of the law, the more I think about this debacle, the more I seem to be pushing the blame on the people who received the score files and submitted them under their own power than AY himself. All he did was provide, he didn't execute. That doesn't make things any better for AY but the punishment should at least be even across the board here, if not, the people who submitted the scores should be given harsher punishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by knopflerbruce
^ Agree ...Selling a licensed gun to a person that goes out to kill someone...the seller is only the provider, the killer is who committed the crime...see the analogy.
Not saying Andre is innocent but the punishment should be across the board and the heaviest on the cheaters
^ exactly what I was thinking
I'm not, andre has been cheating the system for as long as i have been here.Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
i warned people a long time ago on some of his asus board overclocks he was subcooling the northbridge to achieve such insane clocks and he denied it but later came out and said he did. i wasnt the accuser i just heard wind of it and passed it on.
there have been MULTIPLE other documented cases of him blatantly cheating and lieing about it.
once a liar and a cheat always a liar and a cheater
and am speechless that any of you who have been around here long enough are in shock,,, this is a long time coming and about damn time.
good riddance, all he did was inflate hardware sales for the manufacturer for his own personal gain.
now its time we start looking at the people he has been working for and start questioning their results and methods.
and YES the guys involved are just as dirty and scandalous as Andre and they deserve the same fate he does.. period.
DARN THE SHARK IS BACK FROM THE DEEP; lo Lestat
Ahem, I can hear a pin drop.
The last few posts highlight wht I'm sure is at the back of the mind of most posters - the seemingly disproportionate penalty, as far as XS is concerned. All the guys involved are grown men, so it's not like an adult serving alcohol to a kid, though they'd both receive proportionate "consequences" when caught. So why such extremely skewed punishment? Somebody, please save us the work of reading through posting histories, hehe.
I know, right? The proverbial pot vs kettle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
Lets sum it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoes!
"BAN BAN BAN BAN"
"ARHHHHH but he was such a nice guy he would never cheat. He posted in the water cooling section all the time :("
"Ok lets just ban that guy and hit all the others with this little ban hammer to make it seem fair"
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...fee_Hammer.JPG
:shrug:
I think tolerating or being lenient with some individuals about cheating sends the wrong message. That with the right connections, reputation, etc you can cheat and get off easier. Sure, it's sad to lose some very valuable individuals, but it's not like they didn't know that there could be serious consequences when they decided to engage in it.
IMO, lifetime bans for all. On HWBOT too.
huh? :confused:
does anybody know WHY andre would want to mess with the competition? :confused:
andre has never taken rules all that seriously, so i can imagine that he did something like this to cause some trouble, prove a point, or just for fun...
but hiwa? skinee? using andres scores? that makes no sense at all to me...
btw george, you patting andre on the back and calling him a good guy, wow :D
now ive seen it all ^^
:clap::clap::clap::clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Now this is just my personal opinion but I think the reasoning behind Andre being banned forever from XS while the others get a lighter " penalty" has to do with all the individuals being looked at from a wider perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gappo
Andre's name has come up more than once but not the others.
Is this fair or right? Maybe, maybe not. Depends in how you want to see this.
I'm not saying I totally agree as I can make good arguments from both perspectives but I can undertsand why Charles did what he did.
sorry for OT but, what kinda ban hammer says toffee on it? I acutally lol'dQuote:
Originally Posted by El Gappo
it all goes back to the corporate overclockers... the "connected" overclockers. They ruin the hobby. If someone sites down with a tray of ES processors and unreleased gear and blows up the HWBOT... who cares?
Look back at the "golden years" of OC'ing... the early to mid 2000's. You had NORMAL people running down to the closest Fry's electronics and having screenshots by that night... competition was tight because everyone was basically using the same gear, same cooling, same methods...
A tasty one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Splave
:shock2:
I've met Andre and he is a nice guy... sorry to hear about this. Lifetime?
err.. can't we all just smoke some weed and get along?
It's a toffee hammer for smashing toffee :D
I see your point MM but wouldn't Andre of been banned straight off the bat if he had been caught outright like this the first time?
Just because he did it better doesn't mean the others didn't have the same intentions and wont continue to do so.
@el gappo
NCspecv81 16th post in your thread. Was that photoshopped? or TheGoat_Eater did message him that?
Andre should be punished harder because of his position as a leaer of hwbot and connections with hw dealers etc.
And Saaya and all of you guys who knowns each others by personal name, could you please use their nick names insteed so others can follow ?
Compelte Off topic reply : just look at lestat's Avatar. There's the Shark :p Don't look for anything in there, it's just an avatar and Lestat can bite ferociously too :pQuote:
Originally Posted by OhNoes!
I'm sorry if I'm not quite crying and being all sad about this debacle.
To me, OC contests are pissing contests. A bunch of dudes get together and see who gets the luckiest with equipment. Sharing results is of course a dumb thing to do (it just shows how un-mature this scene is, that something like this is even possible). However, there's two problems with these bans: First, nothing prevents them from submitting results again through a proxy (not just the technology, also a proxy person) and getting "glory" like that. Second, I think that it shows the limitation of these types of competition to a point where other people might just be turned off from competitive overclocking. I mean, seriously, one dude with a single setup ends up getting winning positions in 3 different countries...wtf? Do they not have good players over there at all? Is the competition so weak that perhaps there shouldn't even be this kind of event at all, yet? It makes the entire "competitive overclocking" scene look weak and uninteresting. At that point, it would've been better for the entire scene to just pretend like this didn't happen, fix the competition format, get more people involved, attain critical mass, then actually start policing the scene properly, when it actually matters.
Now that bans are out, dirty laundry has been cleaned in public (for who's best interest again?) and people have commented, we can already see the negative backlash going in obvious directions (i.e. these guys must have cheated on everything they ever did, therefore nobody can trust their reviews anymore...right...)
Anyway, it's not like the guys made up fake scores, those were actually legit results from one guy who couldn't be bothered to get all the fame (lol?) to himself. If anything, it is such a small storm in a glass of water that I doubt anybody is going to care by next week. Those who will remember, I can count using my fingers.
Don't wanna sound like I'm defending him but, shouldn't Andre be given a chance to explain himself? Did anybody talk to him about this? Is he forward about what he did or is he in denial?
what's next? Futuremark engineers giving out secret hacks to their friends? OC'ing as a hobby relies on the trust that ALL are on a level playing field.
You know something? Sometimes the better OC'er doesn't win. Sometimes it's dumb luck and the guy with the golden CPU wins. That's how it SHOULD be.
level.
playing.
field.
Picture this scenario:Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gappo
Over the course of a few years a certain individual's name comes up with different allegations.. Never any hard proof but it smells.
Then you get this come up and your the one making the decision on what to do and have that information on all those other "incidents"
Now you have the pattern and all the other times make sense to you.
I'm not saying this is what happenned but it makes sense to me.
I believe spec messaged that to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondacity
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
the game been gettin real dirty for the past 2 years
people bendin over for a few $ free hw or a job:down:
completely agree with you there charlie. "professional" overclocking ruins it for everyone else. LOL UP NEXT QUAD-SLI GTX480 with DDR3-9000 SRY4ENGRISH:up:!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
Probably if Andre want to explain himself, imo, he probably get a chance or he could send a message to one of his friend here who could put it here. Simply. If he don't want, imo again, it's not our business.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamHughe
Maybe they should not have banned them immediately and put "I'm a Cheater" across their avatar and then ban them a few days later.
http://i29.tinypic.com/3v77s.jpg
Scarlet Letter? (it is an old book/ movie)Quote:
Originally Posted by brolloks
New color for screen name?
I haven't been around long enough to know these guys but their offense may lead to the kind of stuff Intel was guilty of. Bad for the industry.
i dont know about intel only, evga gives out a bunch of 480gtx to their preferred benchers/employees who bench giving them a $2500+ advantage from having all good clocking cards, intel dose the ES chips and unlocked dual qpi xeons for the sr2, gigabyte gave out ES 58xx for their competion to their benchers that clocked way better than their retail. this has all been going on with people benching non retail stuff and thats kinda like cheating. but sharing scores is soemthing that may not be bad, i know that there are rules and if u just give some1 a score to post thats wrong but when u have people combining hardware in a set of bench runs i would find it hard to only give 1 person on a team credit, especially if they were all different runs. i dont think that it happened like that but i would like to hear what went on.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaganII
what happened to benchzoner was he in this also
Rather unfortunate for OC community.
Charles and others :clap:
That is a big step in restoring OC pride :up:
This is what has made overclocking not so fun anymore. It sucks working 4-5 hours straight with gear you had to buy, trade for, beg or borrow and find out you are at a huge disadvantage because you don't get a board before it's released or a tray full of chips to sift through for the best one. Average Joe can run down and by the latest GPU, spend hours upon hours tweaking with no hope of getting into the top 10 much less the number one spot because he/she didn't have any connections and deep pockets to get the right gear. Personally, I think you should have to post a receipt from a retailer when you submit a score showing the gear wasn't given to you unless it was a manufacture sponsored overclocking competition where everyone gets the same gear. It's like Nascar, everyone gets the same cars and can tweak them within the rules, but it comes down to the skill of the individual on who wins the race. Overclocking competitions have been corrupted by greed and have actually done more damage than good because of the sponsorships by Corporate (name your country) trying to get people to buy their gear in the hopes they can pull off some massive score. So much so that good people are setting aside their ethics and integrity to be at the top of a list and reap the rewards that come with it. I like to overclock and bench, but I have no allusions that my score will ever make it to the top since I do not have the resources or support to make it. When you think about it, it's pretty discouraging.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
Disable their signatures (Or make them say "I cheated", "I'm a cheater" under username, disable avatar, make name heading poop brown. :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by brolloks
Let me get this straight, don't think I'm posting this as a member of the Xtreme 3D Team, I'm only posting my own point of view. Having said that I was probably a LOT angrier than most of you guys because he was/is a member of my team. Risking his reputation with those actions was a very foolish thing to do. Do the crime, do the time. :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by WrigleyVillain
All I'm calling for is some moderation, I see many guys demanding life-time ban on XS and hwbot. Let me remind you guys that there are a few guys posting at hwbot that have been accused of cheating in the past and yet they are back in business again.
Just my 2 c.
Contests suck.
FWIW, our score here took A LOT of $$$...including one (expensive) retail chip...when I think about it, probably more than the prizes even including the plane tix are worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
wickedness.
nothing about money, but shared result.
Mistake is done and they are still good benchers.
And you're not going to end with "keep pushing it" this time, huh? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Oliver
THIS.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
IS.
WHAT.
PEOPLE.
NEED.
TO.
UN-DER-STAND.
:up:
I think Oliver saw that for the first time it was pushed too far....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Machine
Sad to see them go, skinnee has been a great part of the community and very helpful to me in the past weeks.
hmm.. interesting story. Not smart guys. You're real skills were plenty. You shouldn't have got greedy guys
1* Ok, there is no skills involved, especially not in live events :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by antiacid
Cmon, you are kidding no one.... Luck, overclocking, optimizing/tweaking, and scheduling time all required for live contests
2* You underestimate the value of a clean reputation... Its obviously more then a hobby for some; a lifestyle, a path... Any idea how much time it takes to make as many benchmarks as these guys do?
Technical limits isnt the problem, rather the goal is unacheivable if the rest of us wont like it....
3* Screening is a massive problem.... Now this is only hypotherical; but, what if AndreYang actually had an industry selling results? making money on cheating... I dont know, I honestly dont think so.... But do you consider it luck when buying 200 pieces of all hardware and testing all of it? Have you ever heard about "statistic"????
4* Congratulations, you just informed everyone that you are on the wrong forum :up:
Pieter, is this what you try to convince yourself since I am still ahead in competing against you? :rofl: :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
It depends on how you look at the rankings :rofl: Silly MarcQuote:
Originally Posted by M.Beier
Can't we give him a 25 year XS ban ?
We'll see if he changed his ways afterwards and if necessary extend the ban:rofl:
Wasnt that the case for OPB too? Still we're better off without him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
Sorry charlie but then is really no different than now. The same :banana::banana::banana::banana: went on back then. The only difference between now and then is people are actually aware of it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
I never really understood the reason for contests and overclocking competitions..Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
I'm sure Charles must have taken it personally because he also participates in these competitions,
but I see XS as an informational forum..
shouldn't they just be banned from XS sponsored competitions, events, etc?
I'm sure those who are disappointed by this turn of events will just take any posts from these users along with a grain of salt.
I see the reason for the banning, but I don't think Andre Yang is a cheater as much as those that got the scores from him. He's probably the most hardcore out there. He buys crap loads of chips and test them and uses alot of non sponsored hardware. Out of the leader board on HWbot I remember someone saying, he spends as much as the whole top ten combined.
Andre Yang is still a skilled overclocker, when guys like shamino, george and vince respect him, he's completely legit. But the people that used his scores are definitely cheaters and didn't deserve to be in the place they were on the leader board.
This is way different than OPB who just wanted the fame and the free hardware associated with it. Andre already had the skills and the fame and the free hardware. This type of cheating didn't get him more hardware or more money or more fame. In a way, he was just giving his stuff to other people. He was giving others his work and letting them use it. Its sad and pathetic on both parts, but for some reason, from what George's has said because he met the guy, I think Andre is a very lonely man, who wanted some attention using the wrong ways.
Out of everyone, I think he's the most hardcore in regards to overclocking.
Invent something that can be measured and people will start competing with each other, who has the bigger stamp collection, who has the better looking garden, who has the fastest car, who has the highest score in a benchmark, competing has been in human nature since the dawn of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by zads
I didn't see it til about 2004, 2005-ish. There was REALLY something magically innocent about those Athlon XP and P4 days....Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
I remember how back in the day... I saw a guy on ebay with an FX-51 before they were in stores. Maybe a week before they were in stores... so I drove down to Los Angeles to meet the guy at some Cafe to do the deal, lol... the benchies I posted were probably/close to the first FX-51/940 benchies on XS. Nowadays... anand, XS, et al... would have posted pre-production benchies a month before the public saw them.
And I remember the boards, lol... the SK8N and the SK8V from Asus. They were like IMPOSSIBLE to find. That was the good old days... when ANYONE could make a splash without corporate ties.
Thanks Brian :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian y.
Things don't stink without reason. And whatever it is, its definitely many times stronger now.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
That's what happens when corporations stick their hands in anything, don't expect it to stay clean for long.
Corporations only understand one thing: can we get away with it?
Andre is probably innocent at the individual level. As innocent as any soldier doing his job.
I think the right decision was made @ XS, but the situation was not handled correctly. Don't yell "FIRE!" in a full theater...
People have reputations to protect and we don't want to be advocates of smearing campaigns.
They should also ban anyone who works for or is affiliated with HWbot if they are trying to clean it up.
They should ban anybody named Nick who works for company XXXX :DQuote:
Originally Posted by resident1509
Last time I checked, it wasn't a requirement to disclose who you work for. I have never promoted any product either while there are plenty of others here that have without disclosing. :rofl:
sorry but what a load of crapQuote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
this just proves what little you knowQuote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
No he was giving his friends the advantage , taking away hard work from other people that tried.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Totally disagree there are many others given the opportunity and money andre had would be alot more skilled.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Funny stuff, all over silly little 3dmarks?
You know I have yet to see a competition where nobody cheats. I am not saying it is right but motive is there to win and sometimes at all cost. Even myself when I competed in bodybuilding contests I used various...'cheats' to get in the top 3 all the time. Mind you if I was to get caught I would get trashed and it's not because of the cheats I used but for being stupid enough to get caught. Cheating is wrong but as I said when there is motive like new parts and a trip then yeah I am surprised only a few got caught. I will not look down on these people as I am sure they learned their lesson and cannot wait for them to come back. Especially Skinnee because he has tests to finish up for the LC section that I am interested in.
maybe silly to you, but there are million dollar business built around the overclocking community and these competitions keep the community together and moving forward. a LOT of people take this seriously because it's their livelyhood, anyone caught cheeting MULTIPLE TIMES should be banned. permenantly. :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcarcas
No, it's about Honor my friend, not a benchmark..Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcarcas
People should be given a second chance imo, at least non-repetitive offenders. Glad that the ban isn't permanent for everyone.
Everything from 1 month to 1 year sounds justified to me.
They might realise their mistakes after a while.
I come from a background of competitive sports (say, 12+ years of world cup level, top 3 best in my country at what I did). Let me tell you this: live overclocking events have got NOTHING on well established sports live events. Sure, my gear could break or fail and it would cost me a win, but for OC, you're 100% dependant on gear. Many MANY posters here have commented that corporations feed top 1% binned chips and cards to their top OC champions. How is that more fair than say, AndreYang picking his binned chip and giving away the result to someone else? It isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Beier
This is the internet. We use online profiles that don't always correspond with who we are in meatspace. I'm not placed to judge anyone about what's an acceptable lifestyle but I will allow myself this comment: if you get so pissed off at some person that you've never even seen face to face over some magic numbers that he may or may not even have created himself, then you need to rethink your "lifestyle". Last I checked, those guys did OC as a sideline, not as a main income source. The associated online reputation means nothing. Tomorrow morning a dude named "AndrewLang" might show up with top10 results and he'd have a following in a matter of hours. Don't overestimate reputations of anyone on the internet.Quote:
2* You underestimate the value of a clean reputation... Its obviously more then a hobby for some; a lifestyle, a path... Any idea how much time it takes to make as many benchmarks as these guys do?
Technical limits isnt the problem, rather the goal is unacheivable if the rest of us wont like it....
Are you saying that he got a leg up because he had top 1% binned stuff at his disposal? Thank you for agreeing with me that this whole "live OC contest" thing is basically BS because of this.Quote:
3* Screening is a massive problem.... Now this is only hypotherical; but, what if AndreYang actually had an industry selling results? making money on cheating... I dont know, I honestly dont think so.... But do you consider it luck when buying 200 pieces of all hardware and testing all of it? Have you ever heard about "statistic"????
Because I don't care about what Joe Schmoe did in his basement with some LN2 and a couple of hours of free time?Quote:
4* Congratulations, you just informed everyone that you are on the wrong forum :up:
I appreciate the effort put into this by enthusiasts around the globe. I appreciate the input I get when I need information regarding "xtreme systems". I don't appreciate it that my hobby is turning into yet another corporate pissing contest, with all associated problems.
Whatever, in the end, I still believe nobody will give a flying poop about this situation for more than a week.
No sarcasm meant but you've missed the whole point of why people are upset.Quote:
Originally Posted by antiacid
It is the loss of trust and seeing someone that people admired and respected betray that trust.
All the rest is smoke.
Overclocking DOES take talent, however overclocking also means you have lots of $$$$. Without the $$$$ you are nothing.
I'm stuck with a bum CPU and it does not go further. I can't even keep up with similar CPU's.
Geeze, you mean people actually sell overclocks?!?!?!?
What the hell do you have to gain from that? :shakes:
Last response to this dialog from my side; wont spend more time defending the obvious that some of us actually do care about overclocking, about benchmarking, and about fairplay.
And as Movieman fine put it; trust and honour..... Also what I would describe as mutual respect.
If you can convince yourself about that, then I dont even bother arguing.Quote:
Originally Posted by antiacid
Completely none sense.... You have no respect for the passion nor level that it has become.... Alot of people meet at events, this being overclocking events, IT-exhibitions etc.... Again; you are missing the point... AndreYang CANT just make up a new name, because he acheived something, something motivated him, gave him a drive... And likely that was also a social part of it, and it is just a matter of time before getting exposed if using false identity...Quote:
Originally Posted by antiacid
Online and live ISNT same thing...Quote:
Originally Posted by antiacid
Well you dont, but ALOT of people on this forum does.... And clearly you have little respect for what we are doing....Quote:
Originally Posted by antiacid
We are many that cares what as you so fine put it someone does with LN2 in the basement...
Did you read the three letters "OPB" in this thread? I know I did..... Do you have any idea how many weeks ago that was? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by antiacid
In this hobby like all others there are "levels"Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2
The top guys with money and sponsorships bench at the top.
People like you and me bench to what we have or we sit back and learn from the guys at the top..
Have fun with what you own.:up:
I have to back Fugger entirely on the bans. There should be a zero tolerance cheating policy. If Fugger did not ban everyone involved, XtremeSystems would lose any and all legitimacy as an overclocking website.
I'm a bit sad to hear some of the cheaters (regardless of that fact that they may be contributing members of the community) won't be getting longer bans. Permanent may be excessive, but if it's just a couple months, that's not enough time, in my opinion.
Unrelated: Charlie, is that a hidden Apple of Eden in your avatar? :)
I still think these guys should be given a chance address this criticism personally (if they choose to do so). Maybe some hacker stole the results and emailed to the others, maybe a band of pink fairies forced Andre's hands to share results, maybe they are victims of international Overclock Mafia (suspected leader: Movieman) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Kidding aside, I really don't feel comfortable to see this pages of bashing without them being able to respond. Don't take me wrong, I would be the first person to call them AS*HOLES! but I'd like to say this to their faces rather than , you know, from behind.
I agree, everyone is entitled to defend themself.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamHughe
The issue here is that skinnee posted and said what happenned,