Andre, sorry, I don't understand you.
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Andre, sorry, I don't understand you.
Ryba believe me but Andre can get far better CPUs than anyone here, and he has done that before, he even sorts the best CPUs for Kinping. I kind understand Andre here, there is people always :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing about getting WR with unreleased hardware and this Phenom is something you wont be able to buy because it's and ES given by AMD, for me i don't care Oerclocking lost all of it's charm when people from the companies started benching themselves and putting up numbers like are from overclcokers, the limits aren't there any more and because of that all of this has lots it's value for me.
Congrats on the WR anyway maybe it means somethign to you guys.
What is thios chip? X4 945 ?
congr. Finland, nice scores.Il waiting on next new benchs (max CPU-Z higher than 6666MHz :), superpi, wprime?)
REMOVE my name from your statement. I have nothing to do with Andre's incoherent nonsense. I support these guys 100%, I sent macci an F1just so to be sure he was getting the most out of the chips than with the older unit he was using. Andre your english looks worse typed than spoken :D, no one quite understands you and honestly I can see why. Just DROP IT!
I don't know what this thread has to do with Core i7-975/05 WR or how the hell is Vince involved in this. :shrug:
Kingpin, F1 EE has been working great with Phenom II X4 :up: Finally we can use FULL potential of LN2 and no need to hold back. It even worked with liquid helium to below -200 but of course it's not optimal design for that.
I see the venerable N stamped PCB's are still in circulation, thats very very good to know. :up: First I have seen personally and I have been searching high and low.
http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00216/3601601.jpg
My mean " some guys complain about "unavailable CPU we cannot buy anywhere and create New WRs on Intel's thread", but AMD also did the same as here. Where are these guys?
You mean AM3 RC2 is the same stepping as retail,but D0 is the same stepping as first version retail 975 for sure. Some guys still complain about everything they don't have, especially "unavailable CPU creadted WRs".
I never care about piece of sh*t ES. I already proved many times that retail beat early samples.
If you agree that unavailable cpus make some WRs, you would ask these guys shut them up.
Last time, I remember SF3D and you said RC1 is not AM3. Some guys already proved it now.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=217919
Did SF3D and you say something for me? Did SF3D proved it RC1 is NOT AM3?
Here
Francois Piednoel (Dr Who?) is Intel employee and already told here that "I am not even sure that it will be called 975".
You are sure about 975 but Intel employee is not.. very interesting..
Current 3DMark Vantage, 3DMark06 and 3DMark05 world records are all done with such an engineering sample Core i7 CPUs that current retail Core i7 CPUs cannot match.
We benched that CPU and other CPUs in Chicago, Las Vegas and back home on motherboards with AM2+ socket and DDR2 memory. We published our first AM3 + DDR3 results last monday when NDA was lifted.
just 1 here?:ROTF: how many guys on Intel's thread?
Quote:
Francois Piednoel (Dr Who?) is Intel employee and already told here that "I am not even sure that it will be called 975".
You are sure about 975 but Intel employee is not.. very interesting..
You will know soon. I heard my reseller said retail is pre-order now.:p:
Quote:
Current 3DMark Vantage, 3DMark06 and 3DMark05 world records are all done with such an engineering sample Core i7 CPUs that current retail Core i7 CPUs cannot match.
So retail can match your AM3 and AM2 early ES? I ever proved my retail i7 965 can match hand pick ES and even better. Who can prove AMD retail can match your ES now?
Quote:
We benched that CPU and other CPUs in Chicago, Las Vegas and back home on motherboards with AM2+ socket and DDR2 memory. We published our first AM3 + DDR3 results last monday when NDA was lifted.
oh...AM3 CPU on AM2+ mobo is AM2+ cpu, not AM3 cpu.....hmm...interesting........ Can you say again about RC1 is AM2+ cpu or AM3 cpu? or answer is both?
i want one too :D
AMD broken 06 without any doubts, i think intel side needs to fix
cold bug issue, congrates Macci,SF3D and Sampsa, team of finland
broken new WRs with stock fan of 4870x2, thats very amazing.
its very hard to see how 4GPU under cold if you can share it in the future
but no doubts this side AMD performances very well, keep it go:up:
Andre, your message is really hard to decode but I'll try my best:
- I haven't claimed retail Phenom II X4 can match/beat our ES.
- I claimed current retail Core i7-965 EE can not match current hand picked ES Core i7-965/975 like the ones used in Vantage, 06 & 05 WR. Same situation with AMD.
Hm, I'm not sure if it's really necessary; the only thing it would add to the experience is even more relaxed benching. Like Sampsa already mentioned: it's good one has to pour once in a while, prevent you from falling asleep :D.
Oh, I made two 'videos' of the F1 running below -180°C:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...h_100_0977.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...h_100_0978.jpg
1 core running 5.6G through 3DM05, no pouring LN2 and temps are waaaaay too stable
Black hold down FTW!
Cool!
yes, fair enough. I know I can't find as good i7 965 to beat some guys i7 965s. I also know retail Phenom II X4s can't beat our ES.
Show me retail Core i7-965 which can beat +5,265 GHz in Vantage and +5,3 GHz in 06 and prove me wrong.
Hehe, talk about thread detrailing. From temporary AMD 06 WR to my quest for good i7 965 chip :)
What the heck is with all the Xtreme 3D Team threads getting derailed by jealous punks so fast :shrug::shakes::down: First the i7 975 one then this :rolleyes:
Ok, I will show some retail 965 numbers next week. You let me have energy to bench 3D again. I cannot say my retail 965 can beat all WRs, but I promise they are very close.
I hope you can show some "Good Retail AM3 numbers". I didn't see any "Retail" AM3/AM2 3D results close to your AMD ES so far.
respect Vince...
beg up
Black holdown was kickass for Ln2, but alot guys were popin them with acetone MM. :)
40k Vantage has been done on a retail chip Sampsa. Honestly until that is done....there is nothing really to say there about ES this or that.
Lets not derail again same as fuggers/mike guave's thread, I understand what you mean Andre as it seems like those guys took alot more heat than in this thread, which is basically same thing. This is what you mean right?
All of this whats an "official" and what isn't a wor** reco** stuff is getting old :down:. How do the scores get in the HOF? If they dont let video cards on the orb before launch, I don't get why the same doesn't apply to pre-release cpu's, especially when they are game changers :confused: This goes for all hardware. Futuremark is really dissapointing sometimes, but I guess if it's their benchmark and they set the precedent by allowing this stuff on the HOF, that's how it goes.
Titles aside lol, the scores are impressive and it looks like AMD could have a winner here, at least in 2k6. With the low card clocks the score is quite good. I just got my ASUS M4A79 and I can't wait to test it now after seeing your results guys. So does the cpu load the container up in 06' cpu test similar to york?
F1 is holding the load well. Pot full of LN2 is helping a lot compared to york's. Now there is no limit, so benching is so different in every way.
Our idle temp was -188 an in full load it was -185 in worst case. (Of course multimeter and sensor can be out of the range)
The game has definitely changed. Big companies have entered this scene and there is no way back. There is no overclocking federation or anything to make "official rules" regarding equipment being used like in professional sports to make competition fair for everyone (for example Formula 1 etc).
In case of 3DMark if Futuremark's ORB accepts the score and it is being displayed in Hall of Fame.. the score is legit. No matter if CPU is engineering sample or not even released yet. With unreleased graphics cards the system seems to work better mostly because drivers need to be validated.
Nowadays it is nearly impossible to make WR in latest 3DMarks (05,06&Vantage) with retail chip since CPU is playing such a big role in these benchmarks. You need to have access to engineering samples or test several retail chips to find a good one. I think we all agree on this.
Just my 2 cents. I won't continue on this topic anymore and I'll continue to focus getting higher 3DMark results with all platforms AMD/Intel/ATI/NVIDIA.
Maybe now some of those too cold container prototypes might work nicely when there is no coldbug? I remember you had some round container (in the times of evo 2.3 or something) with very much surface area and you told it responded way too fast to and become too cold.
Just out of curiosity, do you have some unspoken or written deal with intel that you cant do any amd-overclocking? It would be intresting to see what happened.
Weird, when I was watching macci benching in Boston I recall the container staying at something like -177 to -178 and never going colder.
illkahy, look at his post again, he just said he's about to test PII...and remind me again who had all the highest scores on the FX57 and the FX60?? ;)
Oh, it was am3 motherboard. I kinda assumed it was intel. Will we see the results online too?
Temp probe was not properly attached :D
the other system / Pot (Dragon Evo) had a properly installed probe - but I managed to rip it off at some point during our roadshow. so it wasnt there anymore when we arrived to Boston.
edit: usually its about -188...-190C idle and -186...-187C loaded
The impact of engineering samples on the overclocking scene is so big at the moment because both Intel and AMD have been launching new technologies these last few months, not because the scene is evolving to a more professional stage. When the new technology matures and retail hardware becomes as decent as the engineering samples (or at least available to the big public), we'll see that world records will be broken with retail hardware again, much like what we see with the E8600 / DDR3 platform, which is dominated by retail chips and not at all ES samples.
I believe the biggest issue we're currently facing is making a good distinction between new technologies being put their limits to show what this technology is capable of and using non-retail material to claim (even implicitly) world records. As long as there's no clear line between those two ways of using engineering samples, there will be discussions between people regarding the validity of a world record and regarding the political correctness of using ES samples to compete against retail hardware.
Like I mentioned in Charles' thread already: there's no point in making up rules that determine whether a certain score is in fact a valid world record or not, because in the end only the numbers tell the story. 48k is lower than 49k, therefor 49k will be regarded as record, no matter what the author wants it to be. If someone shows an 58k, that's the new record, again regardless of what the author wants it to be. There are just a very limited of possible solutions to this issue and one of them is to blacken out certain parts of the screenshots and thus making sure that people don't know how high the score exactly is. Not making FM validated links is mandatory if you don't want to claim a 3DM world record. There's another decent way to solve this issue, but that's not up for discussion yet ...
OH, just for the record, none of the technologies we've been seeing these last few weeks overclock themselves to these extreme heights; in both Intel and AMD's case, there are people who do the actual overclocking, who put time in testing these technologies. Regardless of your opinion about world records, it's important to acknowledge the work people have put into these sessions.
Well said Sampsa :up: Even though it is a rather sad fact
Still nice to see big numbers from AMD :)
Hehe, but honestly: the temp probe is not needed with these parts. Easy to tell when the Dragon pot is "in the zone". Everything runs perfectly until you run out of LN2.
see, no temp meter (actually, there is one, the white one, but its for the ambient temp, was +20C):
http://img.techpowerup.org/090215/kone2s.jpg
I was on my way to a higher score but ran out of Liquid. poured in the last drop halfway thru Canyon flight and the pot was empty at the end of that test. Still made it halfway thru the final Game test with empty container.
So I only got this for now (first and final run of the day):
http://img.techpowerup.org/090215/35351f.png
yup, Canyon seems to be pretty good, almost 4FPS better than on the 35273 run even though its with lower GFX clocks. the rest of the tests were about the same.
btw, none of the components I used in that run were the same we used at Petri's place yesterday. Different ES CPU, different ASUS mobo (we used Sampsa's mobo, which seemed to have a bit more droop under load), different GFX and DIMMs and PSU. Also, this time the CPU was cooled with Dragon F1 "macci edition". Thermal paste was also white instead of grey :D
Go macci!! :D
i have 4 ES chips hiding with one of my buds if anyone wants C1 DDR3 chip :roll: i have already seen 5ghz on LN2 with them
Whats faster Dual 295's or 4870 x2 CF?
Nice one macci! Good to see DDR3 allows 1t command rate, or is it a bug?
I didn't see any 06 WR here , wait for backup of backups
@Team Finland
concrats guy's impressive work !
Copper Mass can only be replaced by more Copper Mass :) :D
Hope i can start next week my first Deneb LN2 session with this babys.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/pot11sck.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/pot22x1j.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/pot3kplf.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/pot4iswj.jpg
http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_1192xq81.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_11951xz8.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_1196zxw4.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_1198lrpp.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_1199cp30.jpg
7 Kg copper mass !
Monteboy.. that is the old way of thinking. It is not working just like that with CPU's and huge heatload from one small spot. You need to have grooves or holes in the base and certain mass. You have to find the right balance.
Huge mass doesn't help in the top of the pot and huge mass do only harm in the base, cause heat must travel more to be transfered away. Copper is not ideal to hold cold, but it can transfer heat quickly.
This is the reason why F1 and my own pot are different from these traditional designs.
Great job with that score!
Copper is even better to hold cold as aluminium. I agree it is importent to find right balance but for what application (CPU) ?
With a massive copper pot on Intel chips you have two problems :
- first if you run in cold bug. It takes lot of time until the pot warm up.
- second problem you need more LN2 to cool this monster pot down.
On Deneb you don't have this two main problems.
Once you cool this massive copper down your LN2 comsumption would be slightly because no coldbug. Only what you need is to hold up -185°C :D
And as far as I can see for this application the main think should be mass.
3 stairs and 16mm (diameter) nipple
http://www.abload.de/thumb/pot3kplf.jpg
Phenom II Die Size is 258mm² and the area form nipple is 201.062mm² , i agree a little to small for this CPU.
Perhaps it is time to think about a new Base for my pot :)
We will see how the old way of thinking perform :)
The F1 currently has enough mass to hold the load of the Deneb well enough, so I don't think more mass is needed. Imho, designers should be working on a container that allow the container to go faster to -185°C, but has the same mass to keep the load :)
I ain't no ln2 pot guru, but have you guys tried creating small holes inside the pots on the smooth surface to increase surface area which is in contact with LN2? Much like a cpu waterblock has raised fins inside to increase surface area and heat exchange but in reverse?
Too much mass in the base will still be a problem, even if you are using Deneb. If you start for example Wprime 1024 and watch the temps, you can see, that it will be stable first and then it is starting to get warmer and warmer.. If your base is not balanced right, you can't do nothing. You have a full pot of LN2 and the temperature is still raising up. Very light applications will not suffer from this and heavy pot might work well.
Monteboy- Let us know how it is working.
In general, everyone should remember to check how well the sensor + thermometer can read temperatures.. I have three different sensors and only one is reading correctly at -196C. Othe one show -160C and one -175C
Impressive results Team Finland :up: Now freeze those cards and perhaps with hard pushing 36K...
AMD back on top, i like :D
PT100 is the Answer for you.
I'will present soon a selfmade 5-channel - thermometer based on PT100 resistor/sensors with cheap components. What we need here is not exactly measurement.
It is importand to receive fast response time and therefor PT100 is better than K-Type.
I think your thermometers are designed for K-type
Paired with this :D
http://images.industrial.omron.nl/IA...img400x400.jpg
I'am a poor man :)
Don't have enough money for that :)
Prefer, to build it in may way :) and write also the Monitoring software.
This Thermometer project will be specially developed for LN2-cooling measurement (-200 .... -50°C)
simple cheap components :
operational amplifiers
cheap 8-bit AD-converter
small ceramic PT100 - resistors :)
Impressive freq & score , congratz for your oveclocking SF3D , Sampsa & Macci :)
you have seen my LN2-Control on AOCM2 ? :D
http://www.abload.de/thumb/ln2control72r6.jpg
I use conventional valves the next version should be better :)
Ln2 valves are expensive !
In combination with this cheap selfmade PT100-thermometer this could be a nice equipment
Guys.. the storm is coming tomorrow.. I can feel it in my bones :eek:
And it was such a lovely day today, who would think that storm is coming? :p:
I hope after the storm it will be like this (LN2)
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/512/151451cbigpa6.jpg
or if LHe involved, then like this
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/594...3nmibighl2.jpg
:rolleyes:
PS. Winter in Poland, Europe. First picture presents a car ;)
who cares the car, tell us more about second picture :cool:
yes..:) who is a girl on second photo :-)? She looks good as Phenom II X4 945 :-D
shes old, and she has a burberry bag :D
If you run out of ln2 during the bench, just start shoveling some of that snow in the pots and hope you make it long enough to finish and save your wr's.
Andre
I am a bit depressed about overclocking circles as of late and have been taking some R&R this summer.
I hope that some of the smart overclockers here will refrain from side taking and protect what we all hold dear and what all the big companies dont get. I have absolutely nothing against any of these companies being a part of our circles but when it comes to affecting our competition I feel depressed. It is getting out of hand.
We need to engage HWBOT or XS or form a new body that would work towards forming a strict, independent and rigid platform which to follow to protect overclocking as a sport from desparate manufacturers one upping eachother over our backs.
I think we should be more agressive about this then we've ever been. Not only is it not good enough to claim a W.R. on unreleased hardware we should completely stop engineering samples being accepted particularly CPU and GFX manufacturers as they make the biggest impact on scores and any other in future that will significantly affect benching (i.e. HDD manufacturers with PCMARK suite for example). The reason why i think ES hardware has to stop entering our competition specifically is primarity to manufacturer superbinnig we have seen from both Intel and AMD in particular from their latest core i7 and Ph2 platforms.
A superbin chip is not a normal ES........these are chips a cut above the rest where no retail or almost impossible to be 100% confident of finding another chip like that from retail sample of say 20 chips and personally binning them. I think both manufacturers have used their binning power to give Ocers access to chips far better than that which we have never had happen before. i knew i could go and find a better retail E6700 or E6600 than the absolute best ES CPUs that came out only shortly after release. This is NOT the case with i7 for example and AMD from what i can see as well.
We should prevent scores from being accepted by manufacturers or their employees. This is different from people receiving hardware to bench as long as it doesnt become another avenue for manufacturers to feed their hardware....in that case it could get more complicated and people getting extremely good overclocks against other benchmarkers could be one sign of "manufacturer seeding" behaviour which should be stopped
I reckon since this is becoming so professional now as Charles said recently that we should then treat it as such. Other professional sports have super comprehensive rules & penalties over their sport so should we no? We should create new categories of benching in addition to current ones where users are encouraged to get the most out of the system.........lots of examples like 32M SuperPi challenge and many 3DMARK challenges created by legends like Vince and others wanting to see how we all stack up with same set of rules. How about low budget challenges we had as well....that was a massive hit and lots of fun.....This enables a lot more people to participate as well and some new names have surfaced showing off enormous skill that would have otherwise gone unnoticed with wallet battle style comp we are a part of right now.
This would also create a good platform for international competitions as currently they just cannot be created fairly due to not all hardware being created equal and being absolutely impossible to bin it to all be the same.
We should probably look at some disclosure related clauses as well in terms of hardware support and general support being received from manufacturers as well to improve transparency and promote openness.
I know that there will be a lot of people huffing and puffing about my post here but i tell you what DONT post a response, think about it, sleep on it and then think about it some more. i know i have for the last coupe of months. I am sure you will see where i'm coming from and try to deal with this constructively :)
Dino
sorry fellas for the thread hijack
monster CPU to say the least
liquid helium will gain how much?? 200MHz
man freeze those cards and show the real results heh
holy :banana::banana::banana::banana:
look at that snow
life is hard in Sydney i have to say :D:D:D:D:D:D my foot sunbathing on one of the beaches close to that shark attack hahahah
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8...3608539oo5.jpg
summer rules :cool:
dinos, yes.. some wise words.
As cool as the newer CPUs run in contrast, the GPUs will likely benefit from the extra cooling even more than the CPUs.
Hmmm...Yellowbeard hums the theme song to JAWS.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8...3608539oo5.jpg
Dino ... wise words huh?...
i can only agree with you.
beg up
More backups? ... anyone?
Team Finland Rocks!
Watch the video from youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwkzY8a8aFs&fmt=22
Attachment 94965
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=10043874
http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00252/3623496.jpg
http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00944/3623504.jpg
http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00627/3623497.jpg
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=4754176
http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00099/3623499.jpg
To be continued... :up:
heh heh, ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 CFX will go under LN2 next weekend live in Assembly Winter 2009 LAN party.. lets see 36k! :D :up:
Awesome, you guys are beasts! :clap: That ES CPU of yours should go into CPU Hall of Fame when it's retired.
3 days late, but still as expected. ;) :D
Congratulations, huge to see AMD at the top of a major benchmark. :clap:
That's what i'm talking about!! Congrats once again! :toast:
We're gonna need a bigger boat!
lol, nice teaser shot with the 6243MHz CPU run :D
Congrats on the massive scores!:clap:
@Dinos
:up:
PS. Don't forget liquid helium! 6,4 GHz?:spill:
Hats off, guys. :yepp:
It's nice to see amd on top of the orb in 2k6.
Wish you luck with your next benchmarks and I hope to see 36k next week. :up:
That WR and video is awesome. :rocker:
:eek: Amazing work Team Finland! :clap:
..... very inspirational to see these scores :yepp:
Very nice work Team Finland! Suomi Finland Perkele! :up:
You can now watch the video in HD, just click bottom-right corner and select HD from menu. Or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwkzY8a8aFs&fmt=18
now we know team finland again ...
great job guys , would be fun to see how it goes with helium on the cpu and ln2 on the cards...
keep pushing it
Great work guys :up: unreal what you guys have been up to of late :clap:
Grats guys, looks like you have Gautam topped.
Given the word, I might run some 06 before the weekend.
nice WR team finland!! LHe and LN2 for CPU/GPU will surely AMAZE :)
Dinos: :up: I agree with you bro