you are still VERY cpu limited...Quote:
Originally Posted by da-key
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you are still VERY cpu limited...Quote:
Originally Posted by da-key
Then it's not a "regular" ATX case then if it does not follow the ATX specification...... :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by sladesurfer
Or they could just as easily be referring to four 3850-512 cards. The math still works out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn.
Syn got that wrong, you see. Intel IS referring to 4 single or 2 dual cards. Read the replies to his post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhpchris
Yeah, I am upgrading to a quad and ddr3 soon. This card will chew up more cpu than I have. Maybe with foxconn if DFI don't get it in gear.
I still see plenty of scores lower than mine with better cards and core2's so its not that alarming.
But hey, I like the looks of where this card is headed and it may fit nicely with my new rig.
yea me bad, i just read it in the context of the RV680 forgetting that they are on about CrossfireX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbornchild
so their "no X2 XT PRO SUPER ULTRA" bs naming scheme lasted two cards only...
why not just name it 3890? Lol at AMD marketing, for their consistency.
On another note, me want this card.
It is not a letter X. It is a cross for multiple. 2X as in 2 times. It is a design of 2 times the HD 3870 in internal crossfire on one card. With the ultimate goal to have 2 of these double-cards in two slots in external 'crossfire' setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
It is not called 3890 because that would suggest a new or a changed GPU. But it is not new or changed, it is the 3870 GPU, 2 times, on one PCB.
Wonder how long before we see QuadFire?
i think we'll see quadfire (as in two 3870x2 cards) on 3870x2 release day.. unless your referring to 4 of them... then i'd go with a i'd doubt anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dower
will be interesting to see how the 3870x2 does against the cutdown version nvidias next highend card... (9800 GTS or whatever they will call it) since the price we have seen suggested around here hints that it will be a competitor for it.
The 2x 256bit bus turns me off.
Yep, because everyone was SOOO happy with the R600...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper
I guess AMD/ATi just can't do anything right...
GEEZ!
I feel the same way about the 256bit bus on the 8800GT/GTS 512MB, but only because I am on 1920X1200. I want to upgrade from my G80 8800GTS 640MB, but there just isn't anything worthwhile yet. Hopefully February brings the new G92 cards as speculated. It's the month of my birthday so it only makes sense. :)
I think it's been consistently shown that bandwidth does not play a large role in ATi's current architecture. The performance difference going from a 2900XT 512MB, to 3870, to 3850 512MB is not very large at all, even though the bandwidth is essentially halved. I think this has something to do with the shader core AA resolve, and hence not taking advantage of the bandwidth because the AA is broken, slow, or if you prefer, 'doesn't perform very well' a lot of the time...something that isn't bandwidth related, nor do I believe going to be fixed with R680, therefore making the 2x256-bit a non-issue if you're comfortable with the current 3870. Hopefully there will be some dedicated logic (or another fix) going forward (R700) alleviating this problem.
On the other hand, nvidia's cards will be well to do with more bandwidth as it ties into their architecture tightly right along with ROPs; something I think we'll see across the whole gambit come the new generation (256-bit low-end, 512-bit high-end, perhaps 384-bit D9EGTS).
i have two 3870's and i have to be honest.... having another two would be handy.... i'll be testing two 3870 x2's in crossfire come release day....
and if ati :banana::banana::banana::banana: up the drivers i'll be changing sides and they will of lost yet another customer soooo come on ati...... dont let me down..... again lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by purecain
Why are the cards not performing that well?Or do you game at very high res
hmm, so when AA is so badly broken in 3870, why does it beat the crap out of 8800gt with 8xAA ?Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle
click
(sorry for the german link, but those everyone here will understand the chart regardless of language)
I was thinking the same thing i also saw that review.Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
I still don't get to understand if they fixed the faulty R600's ROPs in order to make RV670.Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
There was nothing faulty, they just did it differently which required some work on the drivers before performance was at decent levels again. The only thing that makes it look bad, is the fact that NVIDIA just does it extremely well at 4X AA because they are using their ROPs for the calculations and they specialized their design for that particular workload. This can also be seen by the fact that performance for both is on par for other levels of AA.
So ATI isn't doing something wrong, NVIDIA is just doing it extremely well.
EDIT: here is a linky to some more info on this matter, just to cover my behind :p:
Ok, perhaps broken is the wrong terminology (Hey, I tried to call it different things to get the point across). AA is done through the shader core, rather than a dedicated piece of logic in the ROPs as every other architecture has used up to this point afaik. While it's been said the this can produce better-looking results, and I think most agree it does, it also isn't the preferred nor optimized method in most titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
The point wasn't AA performance, but rather that bandwidth isn't a key aspect for Rx6xx parts, as it's been shown to have little effect, especially in AA scenarios, where one would think bandwidth would be key. It won't "hurt" the X2. If you are happy with how it performs, ex being AA, then I'm sure you'd be happy with more of the same.
I have seen those results (better performance at higher AA) before and came to the conclusion that this form of AA is better suited for when we see faster parts based on their current architecture, as we surely will, even if there is less bandwidth than say RV670/G92 to each core and perhaps less ROPs per number of shaders (r700 on?). Currently Nvidia's more traditional method is better for where we are from a technological point in computational power, as well as what's the next playing standard is (DX10.1 spec) and that is 4XAA, which has been the preferred quality/performance standard for quite some time. I personally don't see 8xAA performance as a huge boon to RV670, or even R680.
I mean, let's be honest. Do you expect to be playing at 8XAA on a 3870 very long into the future at playable settings? I'd reckon much, much less time than any G80/G92 product at 4XAA, and especially less time than a 3870 at 4xAA. Who's also to say that if ATi had used a more traditional from of handling AA, performance on their own architecture wouldn't be better? There's a reason it's coming back in R700.
That whole rant is off-topic though. The point is, ATI's current architecture in it's current form is not bandwidth hungry.
perhaps, but to the least, you can expect quite a bit higher frame rates with the 3870x2 (and that includes aa performance)
Even though ati did make a few architectural mistakes (at least in my opinion, they should have had far higher shader clocks independant from the core, more rops and texture units, etc), the 3870 still is a great product, its either sold out everywhere or at least has a jacked up price (which sux for us but proves its selling fast) and they did innovate with the r600's 512bit memory interface (though they should have kept that with the 3870, its worth the extra heat from the 30m transitors). Overall, I'd say ati is finally starting to recover since they were bought out (though once again, amd should have waited until after the r600 was launched to buy it, its a lot harder to produce a high end product with the stress and confusion that comes with a merger/buyout)
The 512bit interface, 1024bit ringbus, costs A LOT more than 30m trannies... So no, it was not worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Remember than they moved UVD on die.
Wow...a widescreen format graphics card, lol...
whens this sucker coming out? now that i have crysis i am in bad need of a new graphics card :)
At 2X and 4X the hit is proportionately more than Nvidia cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
really depends on game.
in :
- anno 1701
- oblivion
- dirt
- prey
- crysis (!)
and lost planet
fps drop when activating 4xAA is much bigger with 8800gt then with 3870.
The worse cumulated results come from really BIG problems in "stalker" or "jericho" for example, where 3870 breaks down by a huge amount.
If you take out this games, where obviously driver bugs are the issue, then 3870 performs at least equal to 8800gt with 4xAA.
Dude this is ATI, they WILL screw the drivers up on release day!Quote:
Originally Posted by purecain
Correct. It varies by game. But even with throwing out the worst and best, overall, proportionately R6xx cores take a bigger AA hit than G80/G92.Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
Call me crazy but in all the games in this one show that of which I speak...http://www.techspot.com/review/76-as...870/page4.html
The 3870 in Prey gets thumped by AA here.........@ 1440x900 by 14% margin???
Apart from supcom all nvidia-loved games.
i really don't look at such biased reviews.
8800gt in prey 34% faster then 3870 while in my posted review only 5% :rofl:
Those bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: allready buried 3dfx...nvidia marketing guys never sleep it seems...
Wait 1 Teraflop of computing power? Yikes, I can't wait to do some GPGPU on these babies!
Its that way across most reviews I have seen, feel free to look them up. Is everyone Nvidia biased? And arent most games 'Nvidia' loved?Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
Its time to lay blame where it should be, and thats not on Nvidia's better dev relations (TWIMTBP), but more so on the fact that ATI hasnt/isnt/doesnt have better dev relations for w/e reason. You cant blame a business's marketing department for similar results across a majority of reviews.
No doubt I love this card and its potential, but the bottom line is, in single card, the AA hits are proportionately more across most games for ATI. As many games as you say the issue is driver related, I can find the same handful. The fact remains what I underlined is true. ;)
$400? $360-$380 is what I'm hearing, not sure if that's with bulk discounts or without.
ROPs and TMUs?
So why do you think is there so huge difference ?
In some reviews 3870 is only like 70% 8800gt cumulated, while in others it's more like 90%.
So who tells the truth ?
one example : all those Oblivion Benchmarks.
I've seen both cards myself in this game and 3870 was performing better, while some reviews like anand telling 8800gt is 30% faster.
Computerbase tells they are at same speed and therefore i believe them, as i've seen it myself and 8800gt is NOT faster in this game, not even 10%.
you got your 8800gt, so you better look at those biased reviews, but i will not do it, as i want the real thing and no pink glasses.
There are of course more games, that run faster with nvidia cards, but there are also enough that like ati more.Quote:
And arent most games 'Nvidia' loved?
e.g. : where is the sense in benching two doom3-engine games, when you could do one doom3 and one hl2 instead ?
Difference is in the testing methods. Some do all demos where the results are repeatable, others do run throughs that couldnt possibly be the same exact frames being rendered. Different parts of the game being played to gather results etc...
Overall from what I have seen, I am giving the 3870 a 10-15% deficit compared to the 8800gt in resolutions 16x12 and less (which most people play at). AA in some titles make that difference grow (and in others shrinks).
Bottom line is this: R6xx cores usually take more of an AA hit than G8x in most games. We can cherry pick through any reviews we want to prove our points, but the big picture across all the reviews cleary shows what I am talking about.
I really am dissapointed in the direction this converation is going. I do not appreciate the fact that you feel I have some pink glasses on and am only looking at biased reviews. I have looked at 10s of reviews on these cards and based my judgement on that as well as hands on performance evals of both cards. Writing is on the wall man, looks like you are the one with 'red' glasses on. ;) :lol:
They have to be green now, there is no more choise :(Quote:
Originally Posted by jas420221
But maybe i'm just a bit crazy with so many reviews out there that COULD be nvidia biased, when i've NEVER seen one that is really ati biased.
Well, no matter at all, my next card will be 3870x2 if it's not too expensive, so all is fine :)
one advantage of 3870x2 over having something completly new is actually a smaller risk of screwing up the drivers....Quote:
Originally Posted by fhpchris
i really hope they dont screw them up this time like they did with r600 where they had to fix them for each game separately.
Super-AA?
Could this make an 800x600 3D VGA classic look like 1600x1200 @ AA 4x ?!?! :shrug:
Guys, AA performance hit with CF is smaller :)
HD3870X2 will do fine when AA applied.
I heard that X2 cards will be using new revision of RV670 which supposedly brings even lower power consumption. Just one month to find out :p:
hello extreme membres... is ther some new's about official release of the new ATi godzilla ? any official date ?
BTw. i know my english s*ks....
It should be coming out on January 28th, one month from today :DQuote:
Originally Posted by CLPDJ
Dont look now, but the govt planted a secret listening device in your house/apartment!!!!! :shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
Paranoia will destroy ya!
Sure there are a couple sites that are Nvidia biased, but there are a couple that are ATI biased as well. Its a 2 way street. And like I said, I have seen tons of reviews and with that and my first hand knowledge, I stand steadfast behind my original thought, that I presumed everyone already knew (AA hit is more on R6xx than G80/9x).
Does anybody know where one can get drivers ?
believe it or not : i my country the goverment is allowed to put trojan horses on any computer for widespread observation of everyone.Quote:
Dont look now, but the govt planted a secret listening device in your house/apartment!!!!!
No need for any SECRET devices :shrug:
Please show me only ONE for 3870 vs 8800gt, that is obviously Ati biased and i will be dancing happy around the christmas tree :DQuote:
but there are a couple that are ATI biased as well. Its a 2 way street
The Crossfire X drivers for Vista should be released at the end of January.Quote:
Originally Posted by zbogorgon
Quote:
Please show me only ONE for 3870 vs 8800gt, that is obviously Ati biased and i will be dancing happy around the christmas tree :D
What about the 8800 GTS 512, it's only 75 beans more......:up:
Believe it or not, our government does much, much worse than that. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
I'll just wait til' the card is released and we get some independent Xtremesystems user testing. I really hope I can x-fire 2 of these together by feb.
on the ATI website................. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by zbogorgon
A specific review? No. I was purely talking specific websites.Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
Please show me 'only ONE' where a site is beyond a shadow of a doubt Nvidia biased..........................................
Do you also believe we staged the lunar landing??? :rofl: :ROTF:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas420221
for 3870 X2 and WinXP and not end of January but now :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar
This thread can do without the fanboy posturing and misinformation being thrown about!
NOt to mention the spam, trolling, or flamebait! :rofl: :clap: :ROTF: (sorry, I had to).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
Anyway, if you were talking about me, sorry about that. I hate misinformation to. And for some it seems it takes a couple posts to get the right info in there. ;)
with a little over a month untill the romour'd release date has there been any reviews yet?
Why ask, if you can be sure that someone will immediately post a link here! No news here means no news anywhere on the Net. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
more hope than anything :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Unbornchild
regardsQuote:
CrossfireX quad driver expected in January
The Crossfire X driver is the great big hope for ATI's graphics future. There is a lot at stake with this driver. The success of R680, dual RV670 card hangs in the balance, as this driver has to be able to run two or even four RV670 core and give some satisfactory scores.
Nvidia just launched its three way SLI and in extreme situations this concept works well, so people would expect a lot from four RV670 cards or two R680 cards with two chip each.
The driver was and still is on schedule for mid to late January and we are sure that we will see the demonstration next week at CES, while the final one should be ready by the end of the month.
The driver launch is scheduled for Radeon 3870 X2 aka R680 launch and at this time that looks like a late January or first weeks of February. The cards work, we’ve seen them back in early November, it’s all about the driver now.
Source
late jan / early feb :( i know it's only a month away but i want :D
anyone know about heat output?
nothing a Thermochill 120.3 can't handle! ;) Don't know if I'll be able to get 2 of those and a quad on the same Rad though. I'm guessing they'll be hot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
what about 2 * 3870x2 ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by iadstudio
What about 2 * PA120.3? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
New pictures of the R680 have been posted on the Asian website PcPop.com. This card is from Unika, and they have customized the cooling. Also, the made the card a lot smaller, so it is comparable to a 8800GTX in length.
http://www.hardware.info/images/news/r680-unika1.jpg
http://www.hardware.info/images/news/r680-unika2.jpg
http://www.hardware.info/images/news/r680-unika.jpg
Source and more pics : http://www.pcpop.com/doc/App/261181/000689706.html
woot, not long to go then :D
[edit] looks like ati have got rid of that 6+8 pin rubbish and gone back to 6+6 :D :D :D [/edit]
All of them should be about as long as an 8800GTX :)
Only this manufacturer has got rid of it, not ATI. Standard 3870X2 will have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
nuts :(Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
i wonder if it will still be ok with 6+6 tho?
should be :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
That part about this manufacturer making the card shorter is not true though, this is the standard length of the R680.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenom
Didn't know, the card looks a lot shorter as the one in the pics in the first post..Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Anyway, the cooler looks a lot like the one used on the Peak HD3870
And i found the original newspost on Pcpop.com and translated it using google translate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcpop.com translated by Google Translate
Is it me or do the ATI cards usually look better the Nvidias...
Of course, just like the 2900XT. Maybe Overdrive will also be disabled if you don't use 6+8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
They do :D I mean, the reference ones. That Unika thing looks fugly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.FuzzyBallz
longcard!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan
Yeah they look a lot better. Love the Red colour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.FuzzyBallz
hmm i wonder how many fps i can get in crysis with that cat
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&postcount=31Quote:
Originally Posted by knightwolf654
but Crytek dont released yet ATI/AMD Multi-GPU (CF) Patch for Crysis , its delayed and they said will be released this month , lets see................
AMD/ATI also dont release yet the "real" catalyst Multi-Gpu (catalyst 8.1 with HD3870X2 support ) , should be released in the end of the month along with HD3870X2
so lets wait for HD3870X2 + Catalyst 8.1 + Crytek Crysis Patch for AMD/ATI Multi-GPU and then see whats the performance ..........
:up:
i relly wold love to see this baby doing crysis on AA e AF at nicve resolutions.... 3dmark 2006 wold by fun to; but i still dont know if that dual fan heatskin is good enough for the heat(ar OC speed like 830 on the core's....) .....
i cant wait till the end of the month :(
me to... i want t buy 2 of them; and i already have 1000€ for them :D just waiting for them to enter the portuguese market (or that ati sell me 2 Eng. Samples :D :P )
Let me get this straight, this is 2x512mb correct? or is it really 1024mb?
The former, aka 2x512MB.Quote:
Originally Posted by kite7
any reviews on this thing yet? or still 2 early?
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/377...9145683_rs.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by disruptfam
Dont understand chinese.
Those are just performance figures of the 3870 in single and in crossfire mode, but they do probably tell you all you need to know.
i'm guessing that the benchmark 4'th from the bottom is halflife 2 episode 2 ( or does any one know a game wich has 2x 2 in it like that )
Why you guys are torturing your eyes? :eek:
welcome to 5 weeks ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v_rr
Just a quick question. Since you can only run 2 (If my memory is correct) 3870x2 in CF, is it a good idea to wait for CrossFireX (with the P45 chipset) or should I jump right into regular Crossfire (X38 chipset)?
I think X38 will have CrossFireX also... in fact, I think it's retro to any CF-able board
So it something along the lines of a BIOS or so update?Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
is that just one standard 3870 vs one 3870x2? i was expecting better than that to be fair...Quote:
Originally Posted by v_rr
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
it had better work! i just ordered an x38 damnit
That's just 3870 vs. 3870CF, not X2 or anything though theoretically it could simulate it I suppose, but that depends on drivers and so onQuote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
Also, I don't see why CrossFireX won't work on any board w/ multiple PCI-E slots that currently supports CrossFire - it's so heavily driver based
well in that case 3870x2 * 2 (essentially 4 * 4870) looks like it will have some massive 3dmark scores for everyone to drool overQuote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Yep I can see quad-fire beating 30k probably considering 2 x 3870's can hit 20k fairly well.. and that's without going very extreme!Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
i did not see those benches before but holy poo!
i hope they get the drivers right for two 3870 x2!
oooo :D
how long till water blocks?
blahhh i want one now!!!!!!
Nice photosnaps! :up: Now come on with results!:D
More pics...
This one is inside SilverStoneTek's new SG02-F SFF chassis
Clicky
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r.../Sugo1-big.jpg
The SG02-F
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r.../Sugo2-big.jpg
^ thats a different card is it not? the power connectors are in different places
Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
Its just an OEM card.
Check out the huge black handle on the end of it. Its a bit longer than the retail cards thus the power connectors being able to be placed next to each other.