Can anyone rate the primochill Typhoon III?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the_real_7

ok boxgods trying for rma called frozen cpu , they said for faster service to call Brian at primochill, so hopefully he can help me out ... luckily i didn't epoxy.... just didn't want my main pc out another 2 weeks it good to hear they're changing out the screws for nylon ones , but I had to use 2 way tape cause of the position of the screws and yea one rail definitely lets it rotate a bit but once i put in the cdroms she locks in , the back piece is the 1/4 but it was pretty sturdy and held my swiftech pump great .... all and all this reservoir was a bit of a problem , but after i heard it running I was amazed at how well it worked , hopefully if I can get a another one Ill have my confidence back in it

---

Yeah thats best. I am not saying you couldn't fix it or w/e skill wise, just that A: you should not have too, and B: if you DID pooch it lol...

I already spoke with Brian this AM to let him know and he was already aware of it so you must have made contact already. I Also think have two different lengths of NYLON screws will help for several reasons. Without using a torque wrench "over tightening" is pretty relative. It WILL happen and it is not really the end users fault unless its extreme. They will also dampen vibrations a little. Having the longer screws for Acrylic cases and those that have rails included will help too.

Update, No leaks, No cracks= :P
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5664/pic0639.th.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/428/pic0640q.th.jpg
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7206/pic0641j.th.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4664/pic0642.th.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9281/pic0643v.th.jpg
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/8837/pic0644.th.jpg
I am sorry about the size, wont happen again.

I got my T3 a or so week ago. No cracks, no leaks (except when I tried using a bp barb without an extra o-ring). I did noticed the mold imperfection barely, but like everyone says, it's not visible when filled.

I thought I'd post because they left out an LED plug. I sent an email and a few days later there was a little manila envelop in my mailbox with 1 plug in it. I laughed. One LED didn't work either, but I think it may be my fault and can be fixed.

So to stay with the topic... The T3 is beautiful and primochill was incredibly easy to deal with. thanks.

Quote:

---

I already spoke with Brian this AM to let him know and he was already aware of it so you must have made contact already. I Also think have two different lengths of NYLON screws will help for several reasons. Without using a torque wrench "over tightening" is pretty relative. It WILL happen and it is not really the end users fault unless its extreme.

---

Hey boxgod thanks for looking out and giving brian the heads up speaking with him and letting him know . he said he will have a new one out shipped out to me next week soon as they get in stock , so maybe i get lucky and get one from a newer batch wooohoooooo :D

Quote:

---

So to stay with the topic... The T3 is beautiful and primochill was incredibly easy to deal with. thanks.

---

I agree the T3 is very quality like, and up to now the most sensible wc part to date , that makes having a pump reservoir system look and perform great at the same time , and wow getting water in and air out was super easy and draining it was just as much a pleasure, finally water cooling getting just a bit easier , but like every first run of everything you gotta work out the kinks , and thanks to people like Brian over at primochill for helping out with these problems :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mellowyellow

Update, No leaks, No cracks= :P
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5664/pic0639.th.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/428/pic0640q.th.jpg
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7206/pic0641j.th.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4664/pic0642.th.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9281/pic0643v.th.jpg
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/8837/pic0644.th.jpg
I am sorry about the size, wont happen again.

---

Am I the only guy on earth that can't take awesome pictures? Install looks amazing! Do those pictures remind anyone else of some science fiction movie or TV show? When I looked at them I thought "wow, those really remind me of...and it was gone. Kinda Blade Runner looking but that was not it. Saturn 13?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meanmoe

I got my T3 a or so week ago. No cracks, no leaks (except when I tried using a bp barb without an extra o-ring). I did noticed the mold imperfection barely, but like everyone says, it's not visible when filled.

I thought I'd post because they left out an LED plug. I sent an email and a few days later there was a little manila envelop in my mailbox with 1 plug in it. I laughed. One LED didn't work either, but I think it may be my fault and can be fixed.

So to stay with the topic... The T3 is beautiful and primochill was incredibly easy to deal with. thanks.

---

If you don't get the other one working let me know...I have cases and cases of those pigtailed LED's here in the shop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the_real_7

Hey boxgod thanks for looking out and giving brian the heads up speaking with him and letting him know . he said he will have a new one out shipped out to me next week soon as they get in stock , so maybe i get lucky and get one from a newer batch wooohoooooo :D



I agree the T3 is very quality like, and up to now the most sensible wc part to date , that makes having a pump reservoir system look and perform great at the same time , and wow getting water in and air out was super easy and draining it was just as much a pleasure, finally water cooling getting just a bit easier , but like every first run of everything you gotta work out the kinks , and thanks to people like Brian over at primochill for helping out with these problems :up:

---

Thank all of you guys for taking the time to post. Was a tough day (this latest revision of the new CPU block is kicking my A$$ ) and seeing positive messages helped a bunch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

Am I the only guy on earth that can't take awesome pictures?

---

Have you met Naekuh? :shrug:

I love this res
some upgrades:rofl:

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3...009165r.th.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8...2009161.th.jpg

Brian is asking for another faceplate design that covers the center basin for guys that use top ports...thoughts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

Brian is asking for another faceplate design that covers the center basin for guys that use top ports...thoughts?

---

It might be kind of cool to do that and etch PrimoChill into the center part so the LEDs could glow threw that. :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by millertime359

It might be kind of cool to do that and etch PrimoChill into the center part so the LEDs could glow threw that. :shrug:

---

Not sure I would do that...I am not a big fan of overly in your face company logo's. Might machine it into that space since it covers the logo underneath, but not all the way through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

Not sure I would do that...I am not a big fan of overly in your face company logo's. Might machine it into that space since it covers the logo underneath, but not all the way through.

---

Yea, might be a little plain covering the center part up though. Something would needed to be etched there.

Wouldn't making a face like that kinda defeat the purpose of using the material you created the res out of? I mean the current face plates where to break up the in_your_face_ness of the res, to help blend it with peoples cases.

I'd personally rather have a res made out of non_clear material (that black plastic stuff used in videocard block tops) and a replaceable window. Then there is a lot less worry about cracking it, and the kind of fluids you use. If the window breaks, replace it.

Something like this:

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k...e75/th_res.png

Red = o-ring
Clear = window
Teal = fluid in res
Purple = screw to hold window on

Of course it can be done a lot nicer I'm sure. I just made that in MS Paint to illustrate the idea. That black plastic stuff might be better at dealing with vibrations from the pump too :)

I could see removing the front ports if you are tapping the top. Cleaner look, but I wouldn't go so far as to etch the logo on it, but I like the cleaner look personally.

The biggest problem with a black plastic is you don't see the impeller and such which is kind of cool. We have actually injected a sort of iPod white and it does look pretty cool. Have to talk to Brian about maybe molding at least the back half in a black...never know. I do know that POM/Delrin can be molded...just require a lot of mold rework which is $$$.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

Am I the only guy on earth that can't take awesome pictures? Install looks amazing! Do those pictures remind anyone else of some science fiction movie or TV show? When I looked at them I thought "wow, those really remind me of...and it was gone. Kinda Blade Runner looking but that was not it. Saturn 13?

---

Thanks,

I am not sure if I have air left in my system or it is coming in from anywhere, I can not find any leaks but every couple days I will come home and find a quarter size bubble at the top of the rez, I will burp it and then watch. I can not figure out if it is just air trapped in the system or not, I do not think it should be since I do not even see any micro bubbles right now.
Anyone else have an idea of what i should be looking for?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

The biggest problem with a black plastic is you don't see the impeller and such which is kind of cool. We have actually injected a sort of iPod white and it does look pretty cool. Have to talk to Brian about maybe molding at least the back half in a black...never know. I do know that POM/Delrin can be molded...just require a lot of mold rework which is $$$.

---

If your going to do a revised model, don't forget about the slots. :yepp:

a Delrin one would be amazing

Its not unusual to see air for a while as its bled out of all the little crevices in the pump, rad etc. If your not seeing any moisture/leaking (and your looking carefully) Then it is likely entrapped air. Keep an eye on it though. If yous still seeing it after a week then start looking at all of your connections, fittings, block seal, pump seal etc. Not a scientific observation by any stretch, but if the bubble is the same size each day at the same time that does point to a draw somewhere.

@ Millertime. Well the same mold would be used, just injecting pom and not acrylic or polycarbonate. I would advocate a new front half as that's only about 8K (ONLY lol) as its not as involved as the back obviously. Another option might be machining the front. Not sure if they would go for either but I am guessing Brian would say let's see how people like the new split window first and if it's well received then make a delrin T3 with that style of front. Would be more expensive obviously so maybe call it the T3 Premium (or something less meh sounding) and have it ship with the new metal compressions =)

Will keep you posted.

so after my last pm with boxgod the res came to a leak free time.
now its going at it again and its doing more!!!
leaking from pomp mount and inside the res it self.

i call this a first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug-dC4pHOA4
thank god for HD :p:.

now im gone mail for a rma.

Would I be able to use my metal bitspower 1/2'' barbs with this? Or would I need a new O-ring?

my loop
i use 1/2" (13mm) ID, 3/4" (19mm) OD tubing
t3
1. subloop
T3LO
D-Tek FuZion v2 + Koolance QDC(VL3N-F13-19S + VL3N-F13-19S)
QDC(http://www.aquatuning.de/product_inf...-Kupplung.html + http://www.aquatuning.de/product_inf...chraubung.html)
MORA 2 radiator
QDC(http://www.aquatuning.de/product_inf...-Kupplung.html + http://www.aquatuning.de/product_inf...chraubung.html)
Koolance INS-FM17 Coolant Flow Meter & Adapter Board
T3LI
2. subloop
T3HO
parallel 3* EK-FC285 GTX PCB Rev.2 SLI - Nickel/Acetal + Koolance QDC(VL3N-F13-19S + VL3N-F13-19S)
Swiftech MCW-NBMAX + Koolance QDC(VL3N-F13-19S + VL3N-F13-19S)
T3HI
http://lexusxxx.users.photofile.ru/p.../112702235.jpg

I take readings this device

http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...ns-fm17_p0.jpg
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=740
And I have such result
D5 1st speed 1320 RPM
D5 2st speed 1811 RPM
D5 3st speed 2395 RPM
D5 4st speed 3078 RPM
D5 5st speed 3860 RPM

The "RPMs" represent approximate flow meter coolant in mL/min, and not revolutions.
schedule of instructions to the measuring device
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...ns-fm17_o1.gif

pulse frequency in Hz is this rotation per second
litres per hour = litres per minute*60
so if RPM/60sec*0.3044*60sec

koolance.... My head..... :shocked:

LPH=RPM*0.3044


We have following values:
D5 1st speed 402 litres per hour
D5 2st speed 551 litres per hour
D5 3st speed 729 litres per hour
D5 4st speed 936 litres per hour
D5 5st speed 1174 litres per hour

IMHO very well for T3!!! :up:

The conversion done on that graph is done by the little black box where it all connects in the middle...the conversion factors are there for anyone who wants to make their own controller (I suppose :confused: ).

Your flowrates are as such:
D5 1st speed 1.32 l/min (.35GPM)
D5 2nd speed 1.81 l/min (.48GPM)
D5 3rd speed 2.4 l/min (.63GPM
D5 4th speed 3.08 l/min (.81GPM)
D5 5th speed 3.86 l/min (1.02GPM)

:)


(btw, that's a lot of QDCs in your loop! :eek: )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vapor

The conversion done on that graph is done by the little black box where it all connects in the middle...the conversion factors are there for anyone who wants to make their own controller (I suppose :confused: ).

Your flowrates are as such:
D5 1st speed 1.32 l/min (.35GPM)
D5 2nd speed 1.81 l/min (.48GPM)
D5 3rd speed 2.4 l/min (.63GPM
D5 4th speed 3.08 l/min (.81GPM)
D5 5th speed 3.86 l/min (1.02GPM)

:)


(btw, that's a lot of QDCs in your loop! :eek: )

---

I could not translate your phrase...
Forgive my English...

To mine the calculation resulted above is true
QDC it is convenient to use that without merging system to change elements
For example if I have to pull out video cards, I will turn off 2 small screws on the water block of northern bridge and all,
And if I have to remove the processor I will simply separate 2 QDC
Big QDC I use for a radiator

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemis

Would I be able to use my metal bitspower 1/2'' barbs with this? Or would I need a new O-ring?

---

Does anyone know?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemis

Does anyone know?

---

Read a couple pages back in this thread.

Pretty sure Vapor and a few others said that if you want to use BP fittings on the T3 you need to get some #9 o-rings for them to seal properly.

Hopefully they'll see this and correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ketzer7

Read a couple pages back in this thread.

Pretty sure Vapor and a few others said that if you want to use BP fittings on the T3 you need to get some #9 o-rings for them to seal properly.

Hopefully they'll see this and correct me if I'm wrong.

---

Correct. Even if BoxGods does the new new delrin version. He said the mold won't change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vapor

The conversion done on that graph is done by the little black box where it all connects in the middle...the conversion factors are there for anyone who wants to make their own controller (I suppose :confused: ).

Your flowrates are as such:
D5 1st speed 1.32 l/min (.35GPM)
D5 2nd speed 1.81 l/min (.48GPM)
D5 3rd speed 2.4 l/min (.63GPM
D5 4th speed 3.08 l/min (.81GPM)
D5 5th speed 3.86 l/min (1.02GPM)

:)


(btw, that's a lot of QDCs in your loop! :eek: )

---

You never seen mine Vapor, one set per group, i.e. one for GPU's, one for NB and on for CPU. It makes breaking down the system extremely easy or if you need to replace a GPU, you do not have to take your system down. Anyway, lets see some numbers lexusxxx, temps, overclocks, etc. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utnorris

You never seen mine Vapor, one set per group, i.e. one for GPU's, one for NB and on for CPU. It makes breaking down the system extremely easy or if you need to replace a GPU, you do not have to take your system down. Anyway, lets see some numbers lexusxxx, temps, overclocks, etc. :)

---

air in the room 26-29C degrees, because system unit is in the corner and it becomes warmer after he had some work

speed pump 3
CPU config in signature
on MORA2 rad is 9*Scythe Slip Stream 12cm 1200rpm (SY1225SL12H) 7v=800rpm

video non OC because the power of the power supply enough (if i OC video 734 and speed pump 5 the pc is off)

default cloak is 702/1512/2592

OCCT Perestroïka 3.1.0 burn linpark
HT on!!!
CPU=77C whis LM thermal paste
Water=39C

crysis 1 hour
CPU=55
GPU=53C
Water=35C

Internet
CPU=40C
GPU=40C
Water=32C

Nice job and Nice temps! Excellent job!

Sorry I have been AWOL guys...gearing up for new parts always eats a ton of time and this round there are a BUNCH of new goodies. Looks like a Delrin back out of the mold is a no go as there is too much shrinkage so a new mold would be in order. I have tried black and white ABS though and I prefer the look personally. Will post some pictures if Brian doesn't mind. I actually prefer the ABS and HIPS plastics to polycarbonate as it can be polished and has better resistance to alcohol but China insists you can't get them in a clear/translucent. Google says you can and that the shrinkage is identical to Poly and acrylic so the current mold would work. Guess it is more like you can't get it in China. Got another batch of 1,000 fronts in and not only are the scratches still there but now there's a smudge. I found a place not TOO far away that can use up to 80% "regrind" so at least they wont end up in a land fill. Looks like Brian is going to change molding companies.

For you guys with the oversize heavy cases that need the top ports cough*UFO*cough I finally broke down and designed a delrin funnel that has G1/4 threads on it (and an O ring). It's small enough that it should be handy for bay reservoirs with top ports--2" diameter at the big end. Will be a while before they get here but I will send you one when they do Buddy.

Thanks, that will be great. The top port makes filling a lot easier and adding a fill port type funnel to it should make it even easier.

I've been looking around for the Typhoon III, but it seems to be out of stock EVERYWHERE

Any idea when the stocks will be coming in? Preferably the ones with a top fill port.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverhawk

I've been looking around for the Typhoon III, but it seems to be out of stock EVERYWHERE

Any idea when the stocks will be coming in? Preferably the ones with a top fill port.

---

Best bet is to PM BoxGods or call Brian @ Primochill in the morning. They have been OOS for a while. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by millertime359

Best bet is to PM BoxGods or call Brian @ Primochill in the morning. They have been OOS for a while. :(

---

Shooting boxgods a PM now :)

Man I go off the grid for a few days...

Primo Chill has opted to have the molds (all 2,200 pounds worth) shipped from China to a new company in California. I got out inventory until I ran out of parts. It looks like it is going to be towards the end of the month before parts start shipping again so if you need a T3 before then and see one at some e shop better grab it. I have promised Brian at Primo that T3 will be a priority--we will shift to T3 assembly the day we get parts in, so everyone should be caught up on their orders as quickly as possible. Sorry for the delay but the company in China was just not sending us consistently good, quality parts. I will update as I hear more.

Sweet, even better that production is moving back to the states. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by millertime359

Sweet, even better that production is moving back to the states. :up:

---

+1

sounds like a good move

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

Man I go off the grid for a few days...

Primo Chill has opted to have the molds (all 2,200 pounds worth) shipped from China to a new company in California. I got out inventory until I ran out of parts. It looks like it is going to be towards the end of the month before parts start shipping again so if you need a T3 before then and see one at some e shop better grab it. I have promised Brian at Primo that T3 will be a priority--we will shift to T3 assembly the day we get parts in, so everyone should be caught up on their orders as quickly as possible. Sorry for the delay but the company in China was just not sending us consistently good, quality parts. I will update as I hear more.

---

update?

Hey everyone--sorry for going off the grid for a while but I didn't want to post till I had some information worth sharing. Not sure if DB or any of the other guys posted info as I got it so I will go back a bit. Gonna be a LONG post sorry.

T3 failure rates were climbing up close to 5% -- pretty good for low volume production...unless your one of the unlucky guys in that 5% (and unacceptable in my opinion for water cooling parts). I was unable to repeat the cracking issue here in my shop even over torquing the pump mounting screws by 25% which is pretty hard to do. I COULD get them to crack with Ethylene Glycol fluids but only two of the 5 parts I destroyed cracked at the inserts for pump mounting which seems to be where most failures are happening, and ALL the glycol added test samples cracked all over the rez, not localized just at the screw inserts. My unofficial testing wasn't uber scientific of course but I have parts to burn and I am pretty good at breaking stuff.

Every time Brian talked with "engineers" at the injection molding company in China they insisted that the parts were correct and that users were either using alcohol, Ethylene Glycol, or over tightening the screws. Brian shipped 2 sets of parts to an injection molding company in California with real engineers that do consulting and they looked them over. No design issues (woot for me =) and they could not recreate the failures/cracks at the torque spec either. They asked for a broader sample base so Brian had me pull 2 parts from every box we had here for assembly (my shop glues the 2 halves together and packages the T3) and ship them off to California.

The guys in California have a light they use to measure how much UV stabilizer is the plastic. As I understand it, this is some sort of chemical added to plastics to prevent them from breaking down and becoming brittle when exposed to sunlight for long periods. The mixture ratio is important because too much and the plastic becomes brittle. The T3 is supposed to have something like .05% because people don't really use their PC's out in direct sunlight and our weak little UV lights are not the right spectrum (or something like that as I am not a plastics specialist). Anyway, they estimated some of the parts had as much as 10% of this UV stuff. Not .10% but a full TEN percent.

They (guys in California) think that either the measuring was sometimes "toss a few handfuls in" or that they reground bad/waste parts with differing levels of this UV stuff, then added the correct batch amount like it was virgin plastic. China insisted this was not the case. I have a much simpler/cheaper full spectrum UV light we use in my shop to check for cracks so I set up a big sample of parts side by side and you could really see a difference in some parts...so even though my light is not as sophisticated ( I cant adjust the spectrum) as the one they used, I am inclined to believe the guys in California because I could easily see differences between parts...if it looks like a duck...

http://www.primochill.com/media/stack.jpg

In the picture above you can see that 2 of the backs have a purplish glow. It is a LOT more obvious in person and hard to photograph, sorry.

Brian from PrimoChill was pretty fed up with the Chinese injection molders by this time so he told them he was shipping the molds to the US. They said we have no problem with that but we are not providing the export papers, why not use another shop in China if your not happy with us? I do not know all the details but long story short Brian had to hire some sort of "fulfillment company" that essentially got like 10 big guys loaded on a truck and rescued his molds. Not sure if they went all Ross Perot or not but keep in mind a mold for half of the T3 weighs just over 1 US TON so it was not tossed in a pickup lol.

Then in order to get the export papers he was somehow forced to ship the molds by Air...as in not on a slow (and cheap) boat from China. I am not privy to the details but I am thinking Google very likely has reason to be pissed at the business climate in China. This might be a cautionary tale for small companies looking to save money by moving molding/production to China--unless you have a law firm on retainer in China (or mafia ties) you might want to count on and plan for a LOT of hidden costs you did not bargain for.

Anyway, The molds were shipped to a highly regarded injection molder in California who will be making the parts now. Yes costs per part went up a LOT but these guys answer questions in terms even I can mostly understand as a designer and not an engineer. They recommended getting rid of the metal inserts in favor of tapping the plastic, going with nylon thumb screws for case mounting, allen screws for pump mounting, and switching to ABS or Acrylic for the back. Brian had them do samples in ABS but they were WAY to cloudy looking, so he went with Acrylic.

I am not sure what the thinking is on getting rid of the inserts but I am guessing its to increase the amount of plastic in that area, and/or to make people less likely to over tighten those screws. I think people see those metal inserts and think they can really reef on the screws when that is really not the case. Hard to say you did not over tighten the screws when the threads are blown out so people are naturally more careful. The Allen screws also make over tightening a lot harder then using a screw driver. Obviously nylon thumb screws are the same concept.

The front plugs are also now a smaller diameter and slotted, and the fitting O rings are fatter and seal better (also good news for people using other brands of fittings).

I shipped out a small batch of T3's to Primo today for RMA's so those of you pissed about the delay...parts are inbound. Again, I just did the T3 design and am not employed by Primo Chill so I have no real say in production or how they handle customer issues etc, but I think not using parts they couldn't trust for RMA units was the right choice...even if people were pissed. Obviously not shipping inventory until they got a new injection molding company was as well.

As a sort of disclaimer, all of the info above is stuff I gleaned mostly as an interested observer kind of watching the "drama" unfold. I do freelance design work and light manufacturing/assembly and am NOT a plastics engineer nor any sort of political or business expert about China nor do I have anything to do with the business/product decisions of Primo beyond expressing my opinion when asked, (and the occasional "I told you so" :D).

In other news, the new premium single bay Split window reservoirs are shipping end of this week. They are machined from a solid block of delrin (no more molded clear parts for me :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:es lol), have a billet style face plate machined from a solid block of aluminum (no the aluminum does not touch the water) built in machined light bar that lights the fluid without being visable usig 4 UV led's, top ports with optional front port windows, come in 8 colors of delrin and many anno colors for the face plates...what else...oh and in a single tank version and a dual tank version for guys wanting to run two discrete loops from the same rez.

There is also a T3 version of the split window which is basically a Split window style dual bay reservoir melded with a T3. Same solid delrin body, machined face plate etc.

On the little items that make life easier front there is a machined delrin funnel with G1/4 threads and a machined delrin small footprint drain/fill port shipping this week or early next week. I think the trick little 20 LED boards like Bod used in his Trident build are also FINALLY shipping. They power up to 20 LED's off a molex and have switch pins for those wanting to be able to turn the lights on and off.

I will post some pics in a new thread here in a bit.

Consider yourselves UPDATED!

Little teaser of the new Split Window single bay rez.

http://www.primochill.com/split/split_06.jpg

http://www.primochill.com/split/split_08.jpg

Thats pretty much how the new premium delrin T3's will look also btw.

Link to the thread:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...87#post4209187

I'm glad the reason for the cracking T3's was found. I guess I should assume if mine hasn't cracked since the day they released, then it shouldn't crack in the future. I'm gonna check it out when I drain my loop next, which should be pretty soon - I hope.. I gotta put in a new VRM block and new GPU block :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diverge

I'm glad the reason for the cracking T3's was found. I guess I should assume if mine hasn't cracked since the day they released, then it shouldn't crack in the future. I'm gonna check it out when I drain my loop next, which should be pretty soon - I hope.. I gotta put in a new VRM block and new GPU block :)

---

Yeah you should be fine. keep in mind the 5% thing. Say 2000 units sold...that's 100 that needed RMA

As long as you didn't take out any frustrations on the mounting screws you should be golden. People often forget that these ARE plastic parts...

Thanks for the update.

If I may ask, do you know what the the situation is for those customers overseas? It would cost a significant portion of the original purchase price to ship my cracked T3 back to the USA, and I for one have been waiting for so long for any kind of response from Primochill at all that I have had no choice but to replace my T3 setup with an alternate solution in order to get my system up and running again. An RMA is therefore more or less useless, and I'd like a full refund to compensate for all the issues and dead hardware caused, as well as the time and frustration.

I can understand not wanting to ship out parts that suffered from issues as RMAs, but I cannot understand not replying at all to customer e-mails. And it's not only me - have a quick look through the T3 threads, it seems most customers who contacted PC never received any kind of response at all, no explanation, no apology, nothing. As a small business owner myself, that kind of customer service is unforgivable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

Thanks for the update.

If I may ask, do you know what the the situation is for those customers overseas? It would cost a significant portion of the original purchase price to ship my cracked T3 back to the USA, and I for one have been waiting for so long for any kind of response from Primochill at all that I have had no choice but to replace my T3 setup with an alternate solution in order to get my system up and running again. An RMA is therefore more or less useless, and I'd like a full refund to compensate for all the issues and dead hardware caused, as well as the time and frustration.

I can understand not wanting to ship out parts that suffered from issues as RMAs, but I cannot understand not replying at all to customer e-mails. And it's not only me - have a quick look through the T3 threads, it seems most customers who contacted PC never received any kind of response at all, no explanation, no apology, nothing. As a small business owner myself, that kind of customer service is unforgivable.

---

yeah my T3 damaged my SSD
and waiting from primochill some reply for my RMA.
sending the cracked T3 from spain to USA will cost me a lot of bucks and after waiting 3 months for some "Good News" (thanks BoxGod for the update )
mmmmm I just wait mmmm 3 months more? so that they can send it to overseas?

All I can suggest is starting an RMA ticket if you haven't already or checking/updating it if you have. Issues like yours are why I am very careful to always mention that I don't actually work for Primo Chill or any of the companies I design products for. That may sound like a bit of a cop out to you but the reality is that once I submit a design and the manufacturing process and product sales cycle begin I am not in the loop. If alterations to the design are made to make it easier or cheaper to produce for example, I have no say. The same for setting or changing the sales price or any other policy the company might have. I am pretty sure (though again not positive) that Primo would not expect you to ship a part back all the way from Spain and would accept a picture or something similar. Just be sure to explain your situation in your trouble ticket, don't assume they know every single detail about you, your purchase, or your particular situation. My experience thus far with Brian and the folks at Primo is that they try to do as much as they can to be helpful and practice good business.

I'm not a T3 user, not upset over a T3 RMA, not interested to be a T3 user, and not fully aware of the technical failures plaguing this thing.

But you have my respect and deserve our respect for being up front with that information. Despite the picket line that tends to form around here, you are not obliged to share every little detail (and I mean 'you,' not Primochill. In fact even Primochill is not obliged to do so, only the timely replacement of faulty parts.), and yet you have, and that is reassuring. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

Issues like yours are why I am very careful to always mention that I don't actually work for Primo Chill or any of the companies I design products for. That may sound like a bit of a cop out to you but the reality is that once I submit a design and the manufacturing process and product sales cycle begin I am not in the loop.

---

I understand that, and I'm in no way holding you responsible or demanding information from you. I merely asked if you knew anything, because so far all we've gotten from PC themselves is a big fat nothing.

Quote:

---

My experience thus far with Brian and the folks at Primo is that they try to do as much as they can to be helpful and practice good business.

---

That may be your experience, and I don't meant to invalidate that, but it certainly hasn't been ours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

. . .S. . .N. . .I. . .P. . .

---

Heh, with the exception of the plane part, looks like I wasn't too far off.:eek: :D ;)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...81#post4200381

Thanks for the update G-man. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

All I can suggest is starting an RMA ticket if you haven't already or checking/updating it if you have. Issues like yours are why I am very careful to always mention that I don't actually work for Primo Chill or any of the companies I design products for. That may sound like a bit of a cop out to you but the reality is that once I submit a design and the manufacturing process and product sales cycle begin I am not in the loop. If alterations to the design are made to make it easier or cheaper to produce for example, I have no say. The same for setting or changing the sales price or any other policy the company might have. I am pretty sure (though again not positive) that Primo would not expect you to ship a part back all the way from Spain and would accept a picture or something similar. Just be sure to explain your situation in your trouble ticket, don't assume they know every single detail about you, your purchase, or your particular situation. My experience thus far with Brian and the folks at Primo is that they try to do as much as they can to be helpful and practice good business.

---

I understand your situacion BG you don´t have no reason to response to primochill

and of course i´ll send the T3 to USA if they asked me or send me a email for some instructions but nothing
I explaind my situacion to primochill send them pictures of the T3
if they want the T3 to see it by there self and my big pleasure to send it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by strike

I understand your situacion BG you don´t have no reason to response to primochill

and of course i´ll send the T3 to USA if they asked me or send me a email for some instructions but nothing
I explaind my situacion to primochill send them pictures of the T3
if they want the T3 to see it by there self and my big pleasure to send it

---

Nah man...like i said I can't imagine they would require shipping a great distance like that, but if they do just let me know and I will ship one of the MANY test units I have burned, blown up, crushed, and otherwise mutilated from Texas out of my own pocket.

As for them (Primo and/or Brian) not keeping people better informed...I do sort of agree that they depend on the RMA ticketing process a little too much. On the other hand all my modding buddies like DB and Charles as well as several guys from here at XS I have become friends with messaged me about some unhappy guys in here and I made a conscious choice to just hold off till I had something concrete to actually tell people.

Brian and I are not like "buddies"--to be candid I have told him to kiss my ass and worse a few times because ceding control of something you have designed can hard for some people. It certainly is for me because I have a temper and actually like to fight more then I should. I have been a jerk to him a few times and he just never seems to get mad. I am not sure why he doesn't come in here and post beyond a bone crushing schedule. I was talking to DB yesterday and he mentioned that some guys just suck at forums (I have had a lot of help sucking less at it from my friends, Charles from Murder Mods in particular) and he listed guys from some of the better known companies we all have been buying parts from for years...Gabe from swift, the guys from DD etc. and how he is always telling them to hire a dedicated community liaison person to bridge that communication gap. Brian certainly could use one...nobody is good at everything.

Anyway, I will do my best to pass along information when I actually have something worth passing on.

Thanks for the update BG and I like the new designs.
I have 2 T3s both of which leak from the sides.
I live in the uk so I expect primochill or the retailers I purchased the T3 to honour the warranty.
The T3 I lately purchased has the Allen key fixtures for the pump retainer and the missing yellow band but it still leaked onto my fan controller and bluray drive.
It is still in my Pc as I have no more time or funds to replace it with something else. So it currently has being packed with tissue either side to absorb the leaks while being topped up with fluid every few days.
Quite the annoyance but what else am I to do as primochill have ignored my emails.
I am sure nobody is blaming you but primochill should hang their heads in shame.
I have not overtighened the screws at the side, it's obviously a fault of materials bring used and I am glad that that problem has been changed.
I have invested a small fortune in your design and primochill have failed me.
If they want my 2 T3s then the retailer can send them back as I have already paid the expensive shipping charges on one of the black T3 faceplates and don't need to do that again.
I will stop typing now as I can feel myself getting really annoyed over the whole situation and don't want to say something I will regret.

I had to import my T3 from a US distributor to Australia. No one in Australia had stock at the time of my purchase. It wasn't until I received my T3, put it into my build, and just before final assembly, I find this post on XS regarding the units leaking. After that I had a decision to make, continue using an item in which I no longer had any faith in, as I had just spent thousands of dollars on hardware that could be all ruined, or fork out the money a second time and get a product I had faith in. I chose what I think was the right option, I took out the T3, reboxed it, ready for its return to manufacturer, and went with an alternate product that I know I can trust. I'm happy to exchange my old T3 which I have no faith in, with a new revised version, or perhaps for one of those new reservoirs that BG is showing. I don't have any hard feelings towards Primochill or Brian, the concept of the T3 is brilliant, and to me it ticked all the right boxes, its just a shame that the product didn't live up to its expectations for reasons outside Primochill's control. I really hope that Primochill and Brian can instill some confidence back into the enthusiasts who purchase their products. Hopefully the new version of the T3, and the reservoirs that BG have shown will accomplish that.

My original design for the T3 as submitted had more material in the mounting locations for screws. The Chinese company said that when material is too thick it can "slump" when the part cools causing like a little dent on the surface. My argument at the time was that if there was a tiny molding related depression or dent on the back it was not a big deal...it was the back. Keep in mind that on the T3 there is no hidden side like a bottom or unseen inside because the part is clear. In the conversations that went back and forth they constantly kept trying to thin out the wall thicknesses all over the part and I kept saying no no no because one of the design goals Brian wanted was a heavy or quality feel to the part. They were the experts on injection molding not me so most of my input likely seemed like whining I am sure.

One thing I have noticed with China is that the Walmart culture or mindset we have here in the US is even more prevalent in Chinese manufacturing. On the T3 project their argument was always along the lines of "part too thick...add $.23 cost per part. very bad." Sorry for the "Chinglish" not trying to be disrespectful. My point was that they just could not fathom why anyone would want to put twenty three cents more into a part then they had to. To be fair, on 5,000 parts your only looking at $1,150 but on say 250,000 units its over 50K. Value line manufacturing is not about finding a single big $3-$4 savings somewhere in the manufacturing process, but rather lots of little $.23 cent (or even less) places to cut costs and that is what China is good at.

For those of you worried about T3's already purchased, please remember that only a small percentage of parts are or had issues. If your worried I suggest mounting your T3 in a case sans components and running it for a day or two...which is a good idea for ANY cooling loop even though most of us don't normally do it.

OK, Brian just messaged me and apparently he is aware that some people just do not like using the trouble ticket system for whatever reason so he set up t3rma@primochill.com so anyone with an issue can contact him directly. He said, "just trying to make sure that no one gets left out because of language or location", so any customers overseas in Spain or Australia etc. are covered. I asked if they were going to require foreign customers to pay to ship RMA units back to the states and he said no, just email a few pictures as proof of purchase and that they would also cover shipping of your new T3.

Now that's what I call excellent customerservice :D.

I just got the email from Brian.
So thumbs up to them for pulling out the stops and looking after me.
I will be purchasing your premium T3 as soon as it's available for definate.
Even if Brian could take a reduction off it and ship that to me instead would be great but not expected to be honest.
Will the premium T3 be available in different colours BG?
I would love black and red to match my cosmos s case, EVGA classified MB with black and red chipset WC and red edition GTX295.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barso

I just got the email from Brian.
So thumbs up to them for pulling out the stops and looking after me.
I will be purchasing your premium T3 as soon as it's available for definate.
Even if Brian could take a reduction off it and ship that to me instead would be great but not expected to be honest.
Will the premium T3 be available in different colours BG?
I would love black and red to match my cosmos s case, EVGA classified MB with black and red chipset WC and red edition GTX295.

---

8 delrin body colors and 2 aluminum colors to start with some sexy new anodized aluminum face plate and motor mounting ring colors coming from time to time.

I am sure black, blue, and red will outsell the rest but it is still nice to have a choice for a change...I kinda like the orange =)

Stop putting pictures of an orange one in my head!
An orange one sounds to good to be true.

glad things are looking up

Good to see so many positive updates since I last checked these forums.

I'll just wait for my turn on the RMA. I'm sure they're quite busy.

BG,

The new res's are hot man.

thanks for the info also. You too DB. Much appreciated.

Well we've got info about so many new products all at once and all spread out over three different threads so I'm sorry if you have already provided this info but what is the ballpark ETA on the premium T3's?

The Split Window single bay in single and dual chamber is going out to resellers now and will be available withing a few days. The dual bay version (no pump) in single and dual chamber should follow shortly along with the T3 Premium. I was told 2-4 weeks depending on when the new metal compression fittings are done.

got a questiion or a solction for you. Dunno if any ones suggested it to you though.

Why dont you insted of tapping the plastic or useing plastic screws, add a slither of metal to the side of the Res and then tap 2 holes for mouting. that way even if some one does over tighten them they are not doing it to the plastic totaly preventing it happening at all.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/720/anidear4u.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mlwood37

got a questiion or a solction for you. Dunno if any ones suggested it to you though.

Why dont you insted of tapping the plastic or useing plastic screws, add a slither of metal to the side of the Res and then tap 2 holes for mouting. that way even if some one does over tighten them they are not doing it to the plastic totaly preventing it happening at all.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/720/anidear4u.jpg

---

That's an excellent idea for the sides, but I don't think it would work for the back where the pump mounts. It would also very likely have to be added post injection molding which has a few issues. In the T3's current configuration there isn't enough room width wise for the plates on either side as they would have to be say .125" thick minimum to be effective which translates to .25" of extra width.

If you bonded them in post production that would mean an adhesive would be needed that could bond aluminum to acrylic. The clear plastics like acrylic and poly carbonate are difficult to bond to anything but themselves, even to other plastics.

If you used a bearing plate in a new design and made provisions for them in the molding process then you would have to deal with expansion. The issue with the inserts was that when they are overtightened even a little, then exposed to temperature variations they expand and contract at a different rate then the plastic. In an item the size of the insert that expansion expressed as a percentage is not all that big, but a plate say 1.5" long that expands in length even a small percentage is likely way beyond what the surrounding plastic could handle without fractures.

Load bearing plates or "force spreaders" are an excellent idea in general, (they are used extensively in marine and aviation engineering for example), But plastics are a whole other beast, and as I have learned, clear plastics are even worse, and if your wanting to use optically clear plastics like acrylic or poly carbonate...may as well brace yourself for a bumpy ride as the manufacturer. The next time your in a store look around at the products there and see how many injection molded parts that you would consider "complicated" as in significant dimensions in all three planes or not "mostly flat" you find that are optically clear. Wont be many and of the ones you may find, most will not be a critical use type item like a reservoir.

I know I will never design one again...just too much work to get them dialed in production wise.

Thank you for taking the time to think up possible solutions and even more time draw them out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

T3 failure rates were climbing up close to 5% -- pretty good for low volume production...unless your one of the unlucky guys in that 5% (and unacceptable in my opinion for water cooling parts). I was unable to repeat the cracking issue here in my shop even over torquing the pump mounting screws by 25% which is pretty hard to do. I COULD get them to crack with Ethylene Glycol fluids but only two of the 5 parts I destroyed cracked at the inserts for pump mounting which seems to be where most failures are happening, and ALL the glycol added test samples cracked all over the rez, not localized just at the screw inserts. My unofficial testing wasn't uber scientific of course but I have parts to burn and I am pretty good at breaking stuff.

---

Hey BoxGods, how long did you leave the test subjects torqued? When I received my Typhoon 3 it was perfect, not a crack in sight at any inserts. It wasn't until a month later when I had to work on my system did I notice there was an issue. I don't think it's an issue you will see instantly, even when over-torquing the screws, but rather by the stress of torque over time.

^^My case also. I was very careful not to overtighten any of the screws but the area around at least one of the pump mounting screw inserts is beginning to crack. It's been installed for about 5 months and I don't know exactly at what point the cracking started, I only just recently noticed it when all the cracking was being reported by other users.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rogueagent6

Hey BoxGods, how long did you leave the test subjects torqued? When I received my Typhoon 3 it was perfect, not a crack in sight at any inserts. It wasn't until a month later when I had to work on my system did I notice there was an issue. I don't think it's an issue you will see instantly, even when over-torquing the screws, but rather by the stress of torque over time.

---

That points to the expansion/contraction rates I mentioned.


I am not sure how they (plastics company) do accelerated testing--rapidly heat cycling for expansion/contraction, bombing parts with UV...all that stuff takes special (and expensive) equipment I don't have, and unfortunately could never justify. If I had to guess most of it is done in software these days.

My testing is pretty unscientific in that I just beat on parts. I do have T3's that have been in service for almost 6 months for what that's worth. When I do the actual designs in Solidworks it has modules for stress testing and analysis that allow you to enter the material/s and projected loads etc to find any areas that need changes. There is also a module for sustainability. The companies that supply the actual plastic pellets review the design and recommend materials. They have mountains of data on the products they sell that I plugged into Solidworks. Its excellent for what it is, but I am guessing nowhere near the caliber of software used at the better molding companies.

Short answer...I have no idea how they test. Wish i could give you some super scientific answer or show pictures of some sort of robot that cycles the part 100,000 times but the reality is its numbers like modulus of elasticity and expansion and lots of other stuff crunched by software.

I am an old guy with smart hands so I use something called T.L.A.R. Not to toot my own horn but if I made a list of the things I expressed concerns over at the outset that were based on simple common sense (like the Company in China drastically reducing the amount of material around the inserts, where they located spru'es and ejector pins, and removing some chamfers and radius's (like at the openings of the rear ports for example) and compared it to areas that caused problems...smart hands did not do too badly. :D

To be fair, I also made a few really stupid mistakes. Like leaving off notches or channels on the sides for cases that have rails...

BoxGods, in your post you mentioned about using UV to check on the res, can we do this with conventional UV LEDs/Cold Cathodes? I haven't placed my T3 in my case yet, so I would like to know if I can check for possible failure points before putting it in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

To be fair, I also made a few really stupid mistakes. Like leaving off notches or channels on the sides for cases that have rails...

---

Haha! I ran into that too, but it wasn't something a dremel to the case couldn't fix. ;)

But anyways, I was just wondering on the testing methodology, and after what you've said about the company in china I'm just going to chalk it up to shoddy work on their part.

Nice to see you back around BG. That split window looks really nice. :up:

Glad to hear new T3s are making their way back out to customers. :)

Replacement T3 dispatched by Brian.
Well done Brian, thanks and much appreciated.
I will be purchasing a premium T3 from you as soon as they are ready.

Just got in the updated T3 today. Still has some of the cosmetic blemishes but i didnt mind them at all. it also came with some plastic thumb screws to mount it to your case (2 diffrent lenghts one for acrylic cases and one for regular metal cases) and a set of thicker orings. since there is apperently a change to the outlet and inlet ports as well. also in the box is a letter explaining what has been going on with the T3's untill recent. only complaint i have is that its not a top fill version like i originally ordered...but oh well at this point i will just cut my losses.


http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/a...newt3stuff.jpg


http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/a...newt3front.jpg


http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/a...zico/newt3.jpg

First off I want to thank Boxgods for helping me rma my first T3 (first gen with glue strip) that developed cracks. Booted up my pc today and i hear the "Cyclone" and air in my system, and i look to find this... :-(

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/a...krh/t3res3.jpg

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/a...krh/t3res2.jpg

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/a...krh/t3res1.jpg

The crack is at the joint of the divider inside the res for the in/out ports I cant get a pic of it till i drain my system. I also found a few other cracks i never noticed before at the pump mount and rail mounts, even tho I never tightend the rail screws down for fear of that. Its too bad, guess I wait till the new split system comes out, till then i get to claim my wife's pc again orz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverhawk

BoxGods, in your post you mentioned about using UV to check on the res, can we do this with conventional UV LEDs/Cold Cathodes? I haven't placed my T3 in my case yet, so I would like to know if I can check for possible failure points before putting it in.

---

The light they used in California to check the ratio/content of the UV stabilizer (not POSITIVE on the name...it might have been "inhibitor") is some sort of full spectrum setup where they can set the light to a very specific frequency.

Unfortunately it's a very expensive set up. (more then I can afford anyway). The light I have at my shop is not adjustable and is in the 350nm to 450nm wavelength range if I remember correctly and was *only* about $1,000 US. Once we found out about the issue of some parts having too much of the UV stabilizer ingredient it was suggested that I could just go through the parts I had here and essentially pluck out the ones that glow--at least to get 7-8 units for people waiting on RMA's. The problem with that was that only the most extreme cases showed up using my light so parts that were still questionable might pass, so the choice was made to just scrap them.

Also, although it does not show up in the picture I posted earlier, there was a sort of marbling like effect in some parts where you could see glowing like streaks or veins, like the pattern in marble where the stuff was not mixed in thoroughly I am guessing.

I also need to point out that lights that work in the spectrum we are discussing here are VERY DANGEROUS. If you DO use lights like these to look at your part, please read all the safety instructions, wear approved UV eye protection, and cover ALL exposed skin with a material that blocks 100% of UV light.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rogueagent6

Haha! I ran into that too, but it wasn't something a dremel to the case couldn't fix. ;)

But anyways, I was just wondering on the testing methodology, and after what you've said about the company in china I'm just going to chalk it up to shoddy work on their part.

---

I can't tell you how embarresed I was when somebody pointed out my mistake on not including that notch...I have never used a case with those optical drive installation "training wheels" before. My initial reaction was to say well just either bend the little tabs back or cut them off because to me that would be a 10 second easy fix, but the reality is I have to own that little design flaw 100%...I just missed it plain and simple.

I also would like to point out that although my PERSONAL experience with injection molding in China was pretty bad and that I would advise any company even considering it to pass, I have had other experiences with Chinese companies that do other types of manufacturing that were trying but ultimately yielded good results. Don't write off the whole country. As long as your aware that their idea of high quality is seldom going to align with what the western world would view as high quality and that you will need to push, you will be fine.

I sort of look at it like this. In China the parts start out pretty crappy but you can get the quality up there with some effort. In America the parts start out perfect...and quality goes down from there without just as much effort...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by millertime359

Nice to see you back around BG. That split window looks really nice. :up:

Glad to hear new T3s are making their way back out to customers. :)

---

Me too! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by az'rail

Just got in the updated T3 today. Still has some of the cosmetic blemishes but i didnt mind them at all. it also came with some plastic thumb screws to mount it to your case (2 diffrent lenghts one for acrylic cases and one for regular metal cases) and a set of thicker orings. since there is apperently a change to the outlet and inlet ports as well. also in the box is a letter explaining what has been going on with the T3's untill recent. only complaint i have is that its not a top fill version like i originally ordered...but oh well at this point i will just cut my losses.

---

Nah, that is just not acceptable. If you had a top port before, your replacment should ALSO be one. If you haven't installed it yet and you can hold off, I will make you one (I build ALL the top port models anyway) as soon as I have parts in from California and trade you. Brian only had one top port to send out and likely just wanted to get you a replacement out asap since it has already been so long. Just PM me for my email and I will let you know when I get parts in to make your top port.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaytaro

First off I want to thank Boxgods for helping me rma my first T3 (first gen with glue strip) that developed cracks. Booted up my pc today and i hear the "Cyclone" and air in my system, and i look to find this... :-(

The crack is at the joint of the divider inside the res for the in/out ports I cant get a pic of it till i drain my system. I also found a few other cracks i never noticed before at the pump mount and rail mounts, even tho I never tightend the rail screws down for fear of that. Its too bad, guess I wait till the new split system comes out, till then i get to claim my wife's pc again orz.

---

Yeah...the inserts strike again. SORRY. Very sorry. Make sure you use the email for RMA's posted in this thread or start a ticket at Primo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by az'rail

Just got in the updated T3 today. Still has some of the cosmetic blemishes but i didnt mind them at all.

...snip ...

only complaint i have is that its not a top fill version like i originally ordered...but oh well at this point i will just cut my losses.

---

Same... no top fillport that I think I paid extra for, and I also have blemishes from the new tapped holes being over drilled... Someone will say, "hey, you can't please everyone" and I guess I should be appreciative that I have something to show for the dollars that I dropped on stuff labeled primochill... but really, I don't think I want to talk about the T3 anymore. ever.

:horse: <-- fin

I know this is gonna be a rather lame question BoxGods, but I have to ask. I'm not one to do bling on my rigs. I'm all about function over style, any day of the week....but (here it comes). Will the new delux T3 with it's knurled pump retaining ring with with the BP Black Sparkle? If figured that since I'm redoing my entire loop (pretty much all new parts), and I have a worthless window, then I might as well make it look ok since I've already spent the cash on function. Besides, any chance I get to house something in metal always makes me do the tool man taylor bark. \m/ ^_^ \m/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain_Harlock

I know this is gonna be a rather lame question BoxGods, but I have to ask. I'm not one to do bling on my rigs. I'm all about function over style, any day of the week....but (here it comes). Will the new delux T3 with it's knurled pump retaining ring with with the BP Black Sparkle? If figured that since I'm redoing my entire loop (pretty much all new parts), and I have a worthless window, then I might as well make it look ok since I've already spent the cash on function. Besides, any chance I get to house something in metal always makes me do the tool man taylor bark. \m/ ^_^ \m/

---

Man, your not fooling ANYONE...your a closet pimp and you know it :D

As far as i know, the motor mounting compression ring (machined aluminum with diamond knurling) will be finished like the face plate--anodized in either silver or black on launch, with more colors coming at some later point.

I am not sure on the etiquette/rules on publicly posting PM's and emails from XS members but I recall seeing a big deal about somebody posting a "private conversation" so I will not paste an email I just got in here.

For the record. I DESIGNED the T3 and sold that DESIGN to Primo Chill. Although Primo Chill has had manufacturing issues and the process was a royal PITA I believe Brian has stayed with it and done the best he can with the resources at his disposal. That being said, I have had ZERO real say on the manufacturing or ANYTHING to do with the T3. I don't decide price, RMA policy, the litrature that goes with the T3 or ANYTHING.

I got a threatening email from somebody here at XS on an email account my wife screens for me that said I was going to get mine, Karma is a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:, and that I better watch my back with linkage to a thread here at XS.

If I calculated the time I have spent on the T3 versus what I made it would very likely come to something like $1 an hour. If that sounds like complaining it isn't. I love water cooling and case modding and I honestly believe that the T3 brought something new to the table. I have also met a lot of awesome people here at XS over the course of 300 plus posts relating to the T3.

I will continue to do my best to answer questions about the T3 in all of its forms/models and to bring issues to the attention of the people who have the final say because I do feel some responsibility even though I'm not. To the COWARD who felt compelled to scare my wife, I would be HAPPY to help you if I can, starting with the suggestion that you get some counseling, or barring that, a dictionary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

...I would be HAPPY to help you if I can, starting with the suggestion that you get some counseling, or barring that, a dictionary.

---

FT[epic]W! :ROTF::ROTF::ROTF::ROTF::ROTF:

Sorry some epeen felt compelled to chase you down. Some idiots are, well, idiots. I, for one, am glad you brought something new to the table.

Cannot believe someone threatened you on here. That individual obviously needs a hug or something. :yepp:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sadasius

Cannot believe someone threatened you on here. That individual obviously needs a hug or something. :yepp:

---

AHAHAHAHAH...that is TOO funny lol.

At any rate, I am not going to waste my time thinking about it.

Well, my t3 cracked recently. with the cold temps, and my room getting to 40F at night while i sleep, and the comp sleeping, pretty sure vibrations + changing temps = cracks. guess i need to get in line for the rma. since i got nothing below it, at least i can still run the thing, just got to keep an eye on the water level.
funny the thing that made me look was a dancing bubble in my VGA block.

Geno - very sorry you (and your wife) had to go through that.

It's unfortunate that there have been issues with the production runs - and let's hope PrimoChill keeps taking care of people. On the other hand, if people don't innovate and take chances, there won't be any new stuff out there... Thanks for checking in.

Yep, that is one of the reason I haven't been around much either. I have been seeing too many :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing posts in these T3 threads.

Sorry to see someone took it that far. Keep up the good work BG. :)

Threatening people over...basically a plastic container? That's...special. :rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

Man, your not fooling ANYONE...your a closet pimp and you know it :D

As far as i know, the motor mounting compression ring (machined aluminum with diamond knurling) will be finished like the face plate--anodized in either silver or black on launch, with more colors coming at some later point.

---

Woops, my fault for not being clear on my question. I was asking about the D5/MCP655 Black Sparkle mod (the full body metal case mod for the pump seen here http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bid5mcmodkit.html). Will it work with the knurled metal retaining ring system of the new premium T3, or does it not engage the metal body in the same way? Of course you would have to have one to see if it works and I'm guessing you dont since that wasnt part of your answer. Hmmm, I guess I'll have to blow $40.00 +shipping to find out. I'll let everybody know after I everything and see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

I got a threatening email from somebody here at XS on an email account my wife screens for me that said I was going to get mine, Karma is a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:, and that I better watch my back with linkage to a thread here at XS.

I would be HAPPY to help you if I can, starting with the suggestion that you get some counseling, or barring that, a dictionary.

---

people are sick or what ?threadning ? thats insane !!!

so sorry Geno and your wife to :eek: for some people Threatening over


Keep up the good work Geno:up:

I suppose people can get emotional when they lose several hundred $ of pc components. Not to mention the amount of down time to have replacements ready.

They're just looking for somewhere to vent, like me, typing all these posts.
I don't condone threatening people over it though.



I'm one of the few lucky ones that is way too busy with work to assemble my system ... for months already... go figure. With my T3 cracking before I even assembled mine, I'm one of the lucky ones who didn't get any broken components because of some leak.

I'm just rather annoyed that I couldn't assemble my system when I HAD free time and now, need to wait for replacement part to arrive... which will probably take about a month.


I do want to point out that the T3 does have some design mistakes (such as pump mount, choice of materials, thickness,) and those misses was make WAY worse with manufacturing defects.

Another thing, it seems that the product was not tested properly (only done in computer simulations) BEFORE manufacturing started.
Made far worse yet again by the fact that there seems to be no Quality Control on the manufacturing side. They should have done stress testing on each unit rolling out of the mfg to ensure most manufacturing defects got detected before it hit the market.

This is a major miss in my book considering that failure of the product CAN do significant damage to other components.

All in all, Primochill is, at the moment, processing RMA for the units that showed manufacturing defects. I just wished they'd hurry a bit.

Geno sorry your wife had to go through that.
Like the previous post said, without people like yourself innovating how do we ever move on with new ideas?
That person should be ashamed of themselves and at least apologise to your wife and yourself.
Sometimes people do stupid, irresponsible things when angry but at least take the matter in hand and do something to try and fix it.
I appreciate what the T3 brings to my setup and that's why I am willing to stick with it. Faults are faults but Brian seems to be doing his best to help.
My wife bought a brand new Audi A4 last year and the glove compartment broke a hinge within 3 months of ownership and it was not mistreated. When we tried to get it replaced under warranty Audi said no and gave no reasons.
Last time we buy another Audi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

That's an excellent idea for the sides, but I don't think it would work for the back where the pump mounts. It would also very likely have to be added post injection molding which has a few issues. In the T3's current configuration there isn't enough room width wise for the plates on either side as they would have to be say .125" thick minimum to be effective which translates to .25" of extra width.

If you bonded them in post production that would mean an adhesive would be needed that could bond aluminum to acrylic. The clear plastics like acrylic and poly carbonate are difficult to bond to anything but themselves, even to other plastics.

If you used a bearing plate in a new design and made provisions for them in the molding process then you would have to deal with expansion. The issue with the inserts was that when they are overtightened even a little, then exposed to temperature variations they expand and contract at a different rate then the plastic. In an item the size of the insert that expansion expressed as a percentage is not all that big, but a plate say 1.5" long that expands in length even a small percentage is likely way beyond what the surrounding plastic could handle without fractures.

Load bearing plates or "force spreaders" are an excellent idea in general, (they are used extensively in marine and aviation engineering for example), But plastics are a whole other beast, and as I have learned, clear plastics are even worse, and if your wanting to use optically clear plastics like acrylic or poly carbonate...may as well brace yourself for a bumpy ride as the manufacturer. The next time your in a store look around at the products there and see how many injection molded parts that you would consider "complicated" as in significant dimensions in all three planes or not "mostly flat" you find that are optically clear. Wont be many and of the ones you may find, most will not be a critical use type item like a reservoir.

I know I will never design one again...just too much work to get them dialed in production wise.

Thank you for taking the time to think up possible solutions and even more time draw them out.

---

Thank you for taking the time to explain that .. :) We learn some thing new every day :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreddy71

Well, my t3 cracked recently. with the cold temps, and my room getting to 40F at night while i sleep, and the comp sleeping, pretty sure vibrations + changing temps = cracks. guess i need to get in line for the rma. since i got nothing below it, at least i can still run the thing, just got to keep an eye on the water level.
funny the thing that made me look was a dancing bubble in my VGA block.

---

Tempted to make a joke about having your bedroom at 40F and finding a wife to warm things up...but with my gift for sticking my foot in my mouth it may be a wife causing the cold ;)

Bad joke aside...that is a pretty steep temperature cycle. Could you estimate how many times you cycled it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shazza

Geno - very sorry you (and your wife) had to go through that.

It's unfortunate that there have been issues with the production runs - and let's hope PrimoChill keeps taking care of people. On the other hand, if people don't innovate and take chances, there won't be any new stuff out there... Thanks for checking in.

---

Thanks Shazza. An admin here from XS was kind enough to take the time and use the email to track down the person. I was very impressed with how seriously he took the whole situation. Anyway, I don't want to help the thing drag on so I will let everyone know it was a member already banned during the "purge" a while back who had an ax to grind. Nothing left to see here folks, moving right along.

As for taking risks and innovating...I would have to agree of course as that's the very foundation of water cooling and case modding. That said, in hind site I think history had a lesson on molding clear parts. I can think of three molded clear acrylic reservoirs that were very nice high quality units that all came and went very quickly because of issues. The reworks to get beyond all the initial issues has been a real test.

I am a few weeks from sending you a special care package with some new parts Mrs Shazza...be careful what you wish for ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain_Harlock

Woops, my fault for not being clear on my question. I was asking about the D5/MCP655 Black Sparkle mod (the full body metal case mod for the pump seen here http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bid5mcmodkit.html). Will it work with the knurled metal retaining ring system of the new premium T3, or does it not engage the metal body in the same way? Of course you would have to have one to see if it works and I'm guessing you dont since that wasnt part of your answer. Hmmm, I guess I'll have to blow $40.00 +shipping to find out. I'll let everybody know after I everything and see.

---

Nope...I think you were plenty clear. I just didn't read your post carefully enough.

If you don't already have the black sparkle motor cover I would hold off buying it. I have already designed an aluminum cover that will fit the T3 Premium and the two other D5 pumps coming out. It will sell as an extra accessory for the T3 Premium and the Diamond Jet D5 and come standard with the Top Loader which is a D5 full conversion right out of the box.

The new DDC Diamond Jet is also a full conversion that will come in two variations--an aluminum base or a color matched Delrin base.

All four pump models (three D5 models counting the T3 Premium and a DDC) should be hitting retail channels in February--I am not sure in what order. I do not have any idea on pricing or what markets will be getting what when (Though I expect North America to be first). What else...oh yeah, the D5 Top Loader is dual loop capable.

Consider yourselves updated :D

Oh good sir, I do indeed feel updated. Huza! \m/ ^_^ \m/

If you just happen to feel some uncontrollable desire to share an image of your new D5 designs, then I wont hold it against you and I'm fairly sure that the rest of the forum would feel the same. In fact, I think it helps to ease the mind when you can unburden yourself of such secrets. So go ahead and let us help you. :devil:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain_Harlock

Oh good sir, I do indeed feel updated. Huza! \m/ ^_^ \m/

If you just happen to feel some uncontrollable desire to share an image of your new D5 designs, then I wont hold it against you and I'm fairly sure that the rest of the forum would feel the same. In fact, I think it helps to ease the mind when you can unburden yourself of such secrets. So go ahead and let us help you. :devil:

---

Unfortunately it would unburden my checkbook too ;)

Once you sell the design they get to choose when information is released. I already got an email this morning with a polite reminder of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxGods

Unfortunately it would unburden my checkbook too ;)

Once you sell the design they get to choose when information is released. I already got an email this morning with a polite reminder of that.

---

Basically telling you to shut up? :rofl:

First, looking forward to some new pics and products.

Second, wow, it's good to know that person was banned already. Wonder what site he is a regular on now? :rolleyes: It's a shame people take things like this way too far. I guess I am lucky that I have not had an issue with either my original white banned unit or the replacement one without the white stripe. I don't think I have ever seen a product that had an issue require that someone threaten an individual over it, it's utter crap. Seriously, how many companies have had issues? Let's see:

Mountain Mods - Shipping damage due to lack of packing material, unless you count trash as packing material.
Koolance - Rusty fittings.
BP - Fittings that fall apart.
Swiftech - GTZ backplate shorting out some MB's.
EK - Some FC blocks shorting out GPU's due to lack of standoffs.

That's just 5 that I can remember off the top of my head and I do not think Eddy, Vincent, Ben, Gabe or Dean ever got a threat over it. Issues got resolved one way or another, some people complained and some people chalked it up to "crap happens". I understand when you have something go bad like this you want to scream and blame someone, but I have had various issues and I haven't felt the need to threaten anyone. If breaking your motherboard or card is going to break the bank, then you shouldn't be messing with anything dealing with water cooling, overclocking, modding, etc. as all have the potential to brick your stuff. I am not saying people shouldn't complain or raise a stink over stuff, but threatening someone over this or any other issue is just, well, retarded and doesn't get you anywhere.

Geno - It's sad this happened to you and more importantly your wife. I appreciate the fact that you have brushed it off as an annoyance and have kept coming in here to either answer questions, try to help people and show us some new products. Keep it up! :up:

Geno, MovieMan can tell you I have had keyboard ninjas attacking me as well here. Funny thing is when you give them an opportunity to man up and meet up they vanish or on other sites make it so you cannot log in. I will gladly meet up with any of these jerk offs in person. Hopefully PAX East will be next for me . . .if any of them care to show up. How i hate internet-talking punks.

Yeah apparently I am a favorite topic over there too.

Its nice to log in now and not see these T3 complaining threads piling up anymore. :up:

Looking forward to more new products there G. Hopefully the bash threads are now a thing of the past and we can move on. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Geno, MovieMan can tell you I have had keyboard ninjas attacking me as well here. Funny thing is when you give them an opportunity to man up and meet up they vanish or on other sites make it so you cannot log in. I will gladly meet up with any of these jerk offs in person. Hopefully PAX East will be next for me . . .if any of them care to show up. How i hate internet-talking punks.

---

Ha your so polite in calling them "Ninja's". Because I thought a Ninja was silent. They were not silent and tried to be seen at every opportunity! :rofl: