http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/28_20.html
I don't get it... the rods melted, but how did the material leave the pressure vessel, the containment vessel, enter the pump pump building and then leak there? 0_o
Printable View
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/28_20.html
I don't get it... the rods melted, but how did the material leave the pressure vessel, the containment vessel, enter the pump pump building and then leak there? 0_o
through the steam pipe from the core (where the cooling water normally boils evaporates and drives the steam turbines)?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Yes, I feel the same:( God bless Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamekiller
The more I read about this stuff the more sad I get. My GFs mother is in Japan at the moment and so is most of her family. Thankfully most are in the south and only a few are from Tokyo.
I can't think of a place on earth less deserving of all these disasters than Japan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the finisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by the finisher
Hi Finisher,
I dont want to hijack the thread, and ive learned not to debate with people who are religious... (im not judging!) its just pointless. Lets agree to disagree :)
On topic: What a nightmare, my heart goes out to all the victims of this on going catastrophy....
I wouldnt wish this on the MOST deserving place on Earth. I came across this video just now and Mother Nature is uber scary when she's pissed. Utterly terrifying. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Sz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tsYjAOK-es
Seems that is not Japan
This footage is from the Mexicali's easter quake in 4/4/2010
Look, i come here to find the latest news about the tragic catastrofe in a first world country that got beaten to a third world country overnight for many years to come and that continues to radiate danger harming a lot more by an event that, like it or not, writes all over the place :Quote:
Originally Posted by the finisher
I'm what happens when you don't synchronise responsibility with technological power !!!!!!
Not to read a inapropiate and immature rant about communist conspiracy hidden in the message. I never heard of jacque fresco, venus project or whatever, keep that nonsense outa here. No one is insinuating we don't need power. If we can behave, so can you.
If you can't , go to XSF.
Ok, thx.
Not sure if you guys have seen this video of the tsunami yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9GEaWAmJg
I would have been super scared. o_o
I recommend this article:
http://counterpunch.org/busby03282011.html
(the most interesting stuff begins in the middle of the article)
Indeed, good reading, thx Dr Swizz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Swizz
Thx, interesting article...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Swizz
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcwhisperer
Sorry, I'm not the one who brought that nonsense here, just responding to it. Perhaps you should be more observant to the posts before mine.
And I totally agree with your(corrected, so you don't read me wrong) statement I've highlighted.:up:
My original point seems to be lost, that modern, clean, nuclear power will suffer greatly from this tragedy. Some may like this, I do not.
If this current avoidance of newly designed power plants is allowed to continue, well, it causes way more problems than it will solve.
I do believe this to be pertinent to the current situation/conversation, IMO. Probably not one shared by many.:shrug:
Remember, this is an old POS plant here, it was scheduled to be shut down. Sadly, too late for the realities of the world.:(
And I am not religious, pretty much hate that. I do believe in something greater than myself, what ever you chose to call it.
I most definitely agree to disagree:up: I ain't no troll:)
Terrifying:eek: That guy got major guts!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamekiller
Wow... amazing vid. That guy was NUTS for staying there and taping it. Then again if he left he might of not had lived just seeing how high that wall was around the shore there after the water went over the top.
Amazing footage.
From /.:
"Radiation levels are skyrocketing around Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant as reports indicate that a radioactive core has overheated and melted through its containment vessel [CC] and onto a concrete floor. Radiation levels inside reactor two were recently gauged at 1,000 millisieverts per hour — a level so high that workers could only remain in the area for 15 minutes under current exposure guideline."
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/1...e-at-Fukushima
Original source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...uclear-reactor
And here's the same story, told in a different way:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Swizz
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/29_05.html
The media does a lot of dramatizing of information, kind of sad slashdot would resort to something like that to get views.
“Absorbed dose rate measurements accross Europe” – data provided by the EU’s EURDEP program shows that background radiation levels in many parts of Europe are higher than the levels recorded recently in Tokyo.
http://eurdepweb.jrc.ec.europa.eu/Pu...p/Default.aspx
Microsievert.net – A cool Japanese site that uses animations to visualize the comparative amounts of radioactive particles floating around the air in Japan. The recent measurements in Tokyo are shown to be below the world average.
http://microsievert.net/
So to all the people saying the water contamination isn't all that bad and will vanish quickly
It's 3000 times above limits today, 3x as high as yesterday, and that was measured 300 meter away of the pipes the reactor uses to blow out cooling water. So anybody want to take a guess how many million times above limits the water is at when it enters the ocean?
But sure, they don't want us to know to prevent a panic and measure far away hoping levels are much lower... and they probably are, but still way way high.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/30_21.html
Even the water from reactors 5 and 6 they pump into the ocean have 1000 times higher isotope levels... those reactors were not damaged... so this makes it pretty obvious, doesn't it? This is a controlled release, and tepco has to stop their "whoops, strange, where does all that contaminated water come from" bullsht...
And the best part, they are draining water from reactor3 into the ocean??? The one that seems to be leaking plutonium? Great!
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/30_20.html
And they are officially considering to cover the whole reactor in concrete now...
But no, this isn't like chernobyl... not at all, all is fine...
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/30_18.html
it looks like the President of the power company has been hospitalized due to high blood pressure.
anyone wanna take a guess why he has high blood pressure?
one more question.
whose bright idea was it to put a nuke plant next to an ocean in a known earthquake area
Its very likely fake. Japanese love to use health as a reason to hide out from the media. Either way its a massive failure in Japanese central planning in a much worse way than Bush/Katrina or Obama/BP spill.Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
Can't blame anyone; people always underestimate the power of nature disaster. The plants themselves were fine from the quakes and it was the water cooling system going FUBAR by the tsunami.
All Japanese island is prone to earthquakes but they HAVE to have nuclear power for strategic reasons. They will continue to be deploying nuclear power after the current media siege slows.
Well better latter then never. I mentioned several times that it was very obvious that the damage was not controllable and should be buried. Now get it over with for god sakes. They've done enough irreparable damage.:mad:
The logical conclusion would be to ask our goverments to blow a few plants so our level drops too ? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by dctokyo
Zapping on tv, a newsreader : but one would have to drink the whole ocean before health is affected. :clap:
Aah our trustworty masters, don't they realise this fine and transparent communication ads to the resistence :cool:
Thanx for that european level link dctokyo , appreciated. :up:
Radiation in sea water reaches new record, 4400x legal limit
High radiation levels detected outside the 30km radius, not by tepco or the Japanese gov of course... by the IAEA...
Radiation in sea water reaches new record, 4400x legal limit
High radiation levels detected outside the 30km radius, not by tepco or the Japanese gov of course... by the IAEA...
They measured levels twice as high as the international limit for when an area has to be evacuated. 40km away from fukushima...
But don't worry! It's all fine! Radiation is way overhyped... don't you remember the teenage mutant ninja turtles and hulk? Radioactivity is cool! Our kids will get super powers and all!
Actually there isn't even a reason reactors need walls at all, we could pile up rods in the open and use them for a campfire... its just for those waaay sensitive whiny hippies without any b4lls who are too scared something COULD go wrong...
I for one say, radioactivity is not our enemy but our friend, and we should embrace tiberium! Errr radioactivity...
-Kane errr Kan ;)
Indeed, would could use a bit more radiation in our dialy lives ;).
@dctokyoQuote:
Originally Posted by pcwhisperer
Just want to say regarding my previous post, i wanne put it in context.
I've had just switched off tv, where that insulting statement was made about drinking the whole ocean before health could become a concern.
Then i came online and readed your post, with my brain still in maximum disgust mode about no info can be trusted. The idea that japan levels where below world average seemed as logic as tjernobyl being the healthiest place to be pregnant. Somehow missed the Tokyo detail...And responded accordingly thinking they where lying to you/us again ...
My bad :)
Any new information that hasn't been shared? I was using this thread to stay up to date but it seems to have gone quiet. :)
Thanks for the heads up.
The news seems to run along with what I've been thinking this whole time.
:shakes:
1000 of tones of radioactive water that will stay contaminated for 300 years. This is not good.
Odd that they use tons to count the water. Usually liquids are measured in gallons/liters except when carried in aircraft (tons of fuel, tons per hour rate) where the pilot needs to calculate weight and balance. I guess it sounds less than 2,200,000 gallons.
Still it is hard to say in gallons without calculator. I think only few countries use gallons for volume. Usually it is cubic meters or tons for water.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaganII
Contaminated waters might very likely to have different density than natural salt water.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaganII
Funny, my mother brought up the same exact question after listening to this one schmuck on the radio. You two must have the same taste in news radio.Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
As for the blood pressure, most of the elderly japan-born men I know have high blood pressure. Sodium will do that to you.
The release of water was inevitable, lol what???
They didn't even tell anybody how contaminated the water is and what isotope it contains... they released it without informing any neighbouring countries... the highest contamination level measured in sea water was 5.6 MILLION times the legal limit ffs! Honestly, if it were up to me the united nations should take over fukushima NOW before the corrupt Japanese gov and tepco cause even more damage!
They still don't know wth is going on inside the blown up reactors a MONTH later.
They can't even measure the radiation levels inside of those reactors cause they only go up to 100msv and radiation is way higher... its off the charts of the installed equipment...
I've had enough of their incompetence!
This is not even a national issue anymore, its regional now and affecting other countries, the one I'm currently in included! :mad:
There have been protest marches in Tokyo with hundreds of people! This is in Japan! It's like 10000 people protesting in Europe... Japanese people are furious according to some friends here with relatives living in Japan.
And tepco actually plans to continue as a normal company after this is over and doesn't want to get dismantled... pure greed! They tried to shut up local communities by paying them 10$ per resident living close to fukushima... wtf?
How about using that money to rent storage tanks to pump the radioactive water into, instead of pouring it into one of the worlds richest fishing grounds?
If in my opinion this is nothing short of a crime against humanity and those guys belong in jail... NOW! Before they can cause any more harm...
Yeah I saw that on CNN yesterday, they said $12.50 per person. The town mayor or what ever they are called said no way. The offer of $12.50 is pretty shameful.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
$12.50..... put million at the end of that total at least per person!
then half the population would desert fukushima lol...Quote:
Originally Posted by deathman20
which would actually be smart i think :/
Will there be some kind of relocation plan? For that people, that is? Or is that not needed?
Dont think they are even sending supplies to the disaster areas due to radiation fears.Quote:
Originally Posted by krogen
Only small scale evacuation plan currently. Relocation? On $10 per head? No way.
Contamination of sea water at the water INTAKE to the plant are 140.000 above limits today, half as much as yesterday but it should have been much lower as they fixed the leak... or so they think...
Pressure in reactor1 continues to rise, they are using super cooled nitrogen gas to cool the reactor. They are worried there might be yet another hydrogen explosion. The fuel rods are only half covered with water.
The evacuation zone around fukushima may be increased from 20km to 40km or even more
But as always, everything is fine
7.4 quake hits sendai, 2m tsunami hit the coast, all local nuclear power plants shut down, 2 of them lost external power and are running on diesel backup generators
Fears of the quake having further damaged containment vessels of fukushima
This time, it's a big quake compared to last days :
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak...sa.php#details
http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eq_depot/2...c_c0002ksa.jpg http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak.../intensity.jpg
Still sounds like an aftershock compare to the 9.0.
Quote:
Japan is considering increasing the severity of the nuclear disaster in Fukushima to level 7, the same as Chernobyl, amidst ongoing radioactive leakage and the doubling in size of the evacuation zone.
Hourly radioactive leakage from the plant is being estimated to have reached a maximum of 10,000 terabecquerels. The scale of total leakage is not yet known.
For comparison, the total leakage of radioactive iodine from Chernobyl is estimated at 1.8 million terabecquerels (at a rate of 10,000TBq/h, this could be reached in a week), with a further 380 terabecquerels of strontium and plutonium contamination.
Accordingly, the government is considering elevated the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale scale of the disaster from 6 to 7, the highest level possible and the level assigned to Chernobyl.
Although recovery efforts at the plant have survived several powerful aftershocks, Tepco have already dumped huge amounts of radioactive coolant into the sea whilst various parts of the core apparently remain open to the atmosphere.
The government is also increasing the size of the 20km evacuation zone around the plant to 30km after new data showed radiation levels increasing towards unhealthy levels, although in fact evacuation orders for areas as far away as 40km have been issued.
The indirect effects of the crisis also continue to mount – the government’s efforts to cover up the extent of radioactive contamination of the region’s agricultural produce is now in danger of causing a national food scare.
Rather than simply ban agricultural produce from the region, in an effort to preserve the reputation of the areas affected the government has increased the allowable radiation in the area’s rice crop by a factor of ten.
Additionally, it has emerged that when regional milk producers had their produce tested for radiation, rather than be tested individually they were allowed to dilute their milk with less radioactive milk from other areas.
As a result of these measures there is now concern that consumers worried (generally unreasonably) about contamination will feel they are unable to trust any food sold in eastern Japan, as apart from home cooking there is no practical way of knowing whether such food includes contaminated ingredients.
Short of an actual nuclear explosion (thankfully regarded as a near impossibility), it is hard to see how matters could be much worse.
What really gets me is why these zone's weren't evacuated long ago.
The people should of been quarantined, and I think they usually sandblast peeps in quarantine..., I could not find info on it but I've seen it in a video somewhere.
Whatever I guess...
I saw on the news some time ago that they quarantined a plane and it's passengers that came out of japan in some other country.
Some countries are probably doing that with all planes that come out of japan now.
I would be doing the same...
You guys seen this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp9iJ...layer_embedded
Creepy..
WoW more than creepy. Those guys are crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face
Very scary stuff to see this :(
fukushima has been upgraded from level5 to level7
The same level as chernobyl
Something dozens of so called experts said was IMPOSSIBLE
Definition of level 7 is a MASSIVE release of radioactive material affecting an entire region.
Fukushima will probably become a ghost town with nobody returning to their homes... ever..
But don't worry, all is fine...
The hate is strong in this thread.
Word to the wise: don't build nuke plants on or near fault lines... Although I'm not sure what options Japan really had, since Japan IS a fault line pretty much and there aren't very many options for the power density they need.
damn why are people still posting in this thread?
Because there was just another 6.6 around Chiba?Quote:
Originally Posted by sin0822
Well Fukoshima just got rated as a level 7 event
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13045341
that. and the fires on reactor #4 after today's quake. its seriously a SNAFU.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
and also, countries around Japan are becoming more critical at the way Japan handles the crisis. i mean, wtf, dumping tons of nuclear waste water into the sea.
let me fix that for you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sin0822
maybe this thread should be moved into wamps though...Quote:
Originally Posted by sin0822
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_01.html
Tepco received a us$ 22bn loan from banks to cope with the crisis...
all while the brave souls in fukushima reactors are sleeing on matresses on the floor, eat crackers for breakfast, have no lunch and a microwave dinner, and no access to showers... but yeah, please hand those chairmen some more money, they need it bad...
best part is, they didnt even announce it and warn other countries, hey, we are dumping a couple dozen tons of highly contaminated water into the ocean, right over there next to your fishing fleets cruising around.Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminc
and excuse me, lightly contaminated water my 4ss...
they kept saying it was lightly contaminated COMPARED to the water they need the storage tanks for...
after they released this LIGHTLY contaminated water they measured isotope contamination over 5 million times above the limit in the ocean close to fukushima... and they never released what isotopes the water actually contained... why? well my guess is cause its something with a half life measured in decades if not centuries and not days...
reactors are still not under control
there is still a chance of a hydrogen explosion at reactor1
reactor4 was on fire again
cooling is still makeshift
equippment tunnels are still flooded with water that is so contaminated they cant even get close to it for more than a few hours
radiation close to some of the reactors, not even inside the buildings, is so high they cant even measure it with their equipment
most experts said that the worst case scenario would be to enclose the entire plant in concrete, and they even announced they had plans to do it... and then nothing happened... cause even that last resort plan wont work... radioactivity would like out through the ground and into the ocean...
but nevermind, all is fine... :)
when a 9.0 earthquake hits a nuclear powerplant, its as fine as it can possibly be as i am sure it could have been much worse. (despite the downplaying of information by Japanese MSM)Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I am not sure what is up with the alarmist attitude as it wont/doesn't help anyone. Global nuclear power is now going to be put to a standstill after this and that is not a good thing for anyone. Even with this incident, solar still causes more death on a per watt basis, and coal 4000 times more. (considering this has not even cost 1 death? amirite?)
No, you're wrong! Nuclear power is the bane of human existence!Quote:
Originally Posted by mars
Why do I say this? I have no idea, I just do what the media tells me to do...
Yeah, no immediate deaths maybe. Wait till the exposure andleakage is too much then see how many there are.Quote:
Originally Posted by mars
What kind of deaths does Solar cause? Sunburnt to death? :shrug:
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-...chi-photos.htm
Hi-Res photos and video of Fukushima
Care to back those numbers up with sources? This is quite of topic but the biggest lie about nuclear power is that it's clean. The waste produced by nuclear power plants has to be specially managed for extremely long periods of time and if handled improperly can lead to very serious contamination. Hell some of those isotopes have a half life as long as half of recorded human history. As for the death statistics forgive for being skeptical when the same type of people call depleted uranium harmless.Quote:
Originally Posted by mars
seriously? surely the death rate information is google friendly?Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/dea...gy-source.html
first hit on google for your viewing pleasure
(http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Mag...1/article4.pdf)
I never mentioned waste, nor clean. Though I will say that i consider nuclear to be cleaner than clean coal. Ash spills and coal mine fires have resulted in about the same amount of land lost to human development as nuclear does.
regarding waste from nuclear plants? my understanding is that there are a few viable solutions to "dispose" (as an example, apparently scientists reckon that crystallizing and dumping to the bottom of the ocean is serious and viable way, don't look at me I am no scientist) of them, but my understanding is due to environmental groups, nuclear facilities have been forced to keep nuclear waste next to the reactors. I am no specialist but this is my little understanding just from reading energy related articles over the years.
Is there a way to keep this thread, or please keep it, as it was originally intended?Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
I do not mind the new's, photos and updates from the informed or from those XS'ers that are in the region but I feel this is straying in other directions.
I only hope for the best for everyone in the area and all further results for cleanup and repair in the region are successful
TEPCO confirms damage to part of No. 4 unit's spent nuke fuel
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/85295.html
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/14_03.html
Fish caught around fukushima contain 25x the legal limit of radioactive isotopes, worst part, not just iodine that lasts days to weeks, but ceasium which lasts hundreds of years
Radiation in sea water is now lower, ONLY. A few THOUSAND. Times above the limit... better than a 7.5 MILLION Times above the limit a week ago, but damn...
Japanese gov predicts the spread of radioactive isotopes in the ocean
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/13_28.html
Water temperature in the spent fuel pool of reactor4 has reached 90C and continues to rise. That's not good at all... I don't get it... the pool is almost full of water...
I wonder if they will pour in more cold water to cool it, and let the pool spill over, or if they wait until the water starts boiling off and then refill the pool...
Sounds like they can choose between having more isotopes boil into the air or get flushed out into the soil and ocean around the reactor.
Great options :S
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/13_35.html
Well now that the cat is out of the bag... Cesium in fish was reported here April 4th
Daily updates http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-plant-updates
Michio Kaku was right all the time, even on the threat level... if only they buried the reactors from the beginning like he said there would be no need to evacuate that zone :\
edit: new interview with him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrxKqLeZYD0
Of course ANY sign of radioactive material found ANYWHERE is going to be blamed on the japanese plant as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by PaganII
Small fish caught in waters off the coast of Ibaraki on Apr. 4Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
Ibaraki, south of the power plant
Don't think so... I suspect they were preparing to do it but then realized they can't do it since the base of the facility is not in tact. There are several large and long cracks in the concrete base of the facility... so they probably decided its better to have access to te reactors and try to keep them in check... bad short term, but better long term...Quote:
Originally Posted by Loque
Remember, this is next to the ocean almost at sea level... burrying this thing properly in concrete might be impossible, especially with all those aftershocks of up to 7.x
More highly radioactive water at fukushima than expected
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/14_16.html
They thought its 770 tons, originally the water was 20cm deep.
but after pumping out 660 tons the water level in the trenches and pump find started rising again by 3cm already. Great... they still haven't found the source of the highly radioactive water...
If its coming from the flooded reactor chambers itself then how could they ever fix it? :(
The reactors are emitting too much radioactivity to enter and work on them to fix the leak.
I'm worried their storage pools will soon be full again, this time with highly contaminated water... and they will have a constant flow of more coming out of the reactor... Mhhh not good... hope I'm wrong
they have no idea wtf they are doing from the start..Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
an organized team of scientists should take over the wheel and have all the resources they need to stop this before it keep spreading radiation all over that area.
Tepco says it needs more time to remove highly radioactive water and repair the reactors cooling system. They are setting up makeshift watertanks???
Sounds like a good idea in an area frequently hit by strong earthquakes and lies directly at the coast. Are they hoping the watertanks break or leak after another quake so they can blame earthquakes for it?
They took water probes from reactor 1 and 2 and sad radiation and isotope contamination levels have increased notably. So the water cooling the reactors is getting even more contaminated... so next the now highly contaminated water will be pumped into the ocean too cause it becomes lightly contaminated in contrast to what's yet to come?
And why did things get worse suddenly? So maybe the 7.x aftershock DID further damage the reactors and that's why their cooling water is picking up more radiation/isotopes?
This maybe the first time in years that you and I agree 100%..:DQuote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I have friends in Japan that I've been trying my damnest to get them to leave but they won't.People on this forum that I consider good friends even though we haven't met.
Even offerred to put them up here till this mess gets straightened out.
The issue to me is partly cultural and pride.
I don't think the heads of the Nuclear plant upbringing allow them to admit defeat and ask for help.
That is a shame and IMHO someone, maybe many heads of state need to speak with them bluntly as friends and say "It is time to forget pride and admit you need help"
Everybody makes mistakes, I don't want to hear any apologies at all.
All this apologizing for decisions they'd make all over again if they could rewind time, and not showing the least effort in actually getting problems solved makes me sick.
The gov has been making big claims since day1 and they haven't done anything... they let tepco do whatever they want... its ridiculous... and tepco is doing what any company would do, look after their own interests, primarily, money...
Wow, who would have thought?
The gov in Japan reminds me regimes in the middle east BTW
Confused and desperate questions directed at the public of what the heck they are supposed to say and failing to realise that there's nothing they could possibly say to solve the crisis.
People want them to DO. Something and stop talking and promising and apologizing
And the last resort of any government these days seems to be to pay people to stop complaining...
I doubt that the gov pushing tepco to pay the affected citizens off will change anything...
Levels of highly contaminated water in the tunnels at fukushima is almost back to where they were before they started pumping it out.
They pumped out almost 700 tons of water... and within 24hrs almost as much leaked back into the tunnel? That's over 20 tons of water an hour... and that's a leak they overlooked? :stick: sigh...
I totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Screw the costs, rep,. etc.
If this goes on, you can take that already high rate of sterility in japan and increase it 10x fold...
I was talking to my cousin the other day about this.
He says, it ticks him off how people think nukes are dangerous, it'll screw over dev of newer plants.
I said to him that there's one newer gen type that re-uses spent fuel rods.
Which I think is good.
But otherwise I'm not cool with it.
Say if the usa does end up shutting down all it's 1st gen plants.
Power costs will probably double, people will complain about lib's and demo's about it saying it's there fault.
Etc etc.
At this point I don't care if the cost doubles for electric if it means getting rid of 99% of the nuke plants ^^.
I can deal with it on my own.
I'll just have to.
Really though, at this rate things are gonna cost so much, that you won't beable to afford power or gas.
And therefor it'll be illegal in most area's to even live on your own land (it's illegal here if you don't have power and such).
Heck, it's illegal here to own a wind mill unless you pay for some kind of special permit :\.
It's 4$ for gas here right now, soon to be over $5...
Sucks lol...
:shakes:
I'm gonna find a doc on Chernobyl to watch tonights for the heck of it...
edit:
Just speaking about this stuff without actually living through it, I wonder how many we pissed off from japan with this thread...
Does anyone from japan want to say anything?, I'de like to hear the word form the streets and etc.
How things are going and stuff like that.
I apologize for going offtopic though.
Seriously? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOAethyr
Unlike Japan, which is over a fault line, the majority of the USA is not. So if the nuke plants are not around fault lines, there isn't a risk of severe damage caused by earthquakes. Other possible dangers are much more easily prevented and/or dealt with than earthquakes.
YOU may be ok with paying 2x electric cost because of a fear of nuclear plants, but many people I'm sure are not. Especially when budgets are already being stretched by other rising costs. Last thing we need is artificially raising electric prices (and possibly causing rolling brownouts due to not enough power available) because of irrational fear.
Well the entire west coast of the us is nothing else but a giant fault line, so...
Germany announced the return to their nuclear exit strategy. At least something good cane out of this disaster... too bad its not something good for japan. Ironic how tw German government learned from the mistakes of the Japanese government, while Japan continues with nuclear power and won't shut down a single reactor, even other fukushima style aged reactors.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_09.html
Level of highly radioactive water has surpassed the level it was at before they had started pumping it out.
And it continues to rise... that's 700 tons of waterthey already pumped out, and now 700 more...... and threes more to come
where will they pump it? probably into the ocean again... and this is more than twice the amount of last time already, and a lot more contaminated... sigh... they don't even know where the leak is, let alone how to fix it...
Wth are they doing... damn you tepco...
Your point? Do the other 47 states not exist in your reality?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I live about 200 miles north of the plant. The US government offered an option for me to voluntarily evacuate my family on March 16th. But we did not evacuate, I felt the media was overhyping the situation, and the evacuation was a political move to make people feel better because the panic the media created.Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOAethyr
- Do I feel the situation down there is serious? Obviously, yes!
- Do I feel any immediate threat? No.
Concerning the Japanese local whom I live near, they all seem very oblivious to what is happening, I'm sure they know, but they don't seem to talk about it much, I figure they feel that they don't have any real options anyway, so why fret? Maybe it's because the fact I could be on a plane home at will, maybe I'm just a bit more at peace with life in general, but I'm not stressing out about the situation.
Since the US military has boots on the ground in the area, I trust they have our safety in mind, and typically they're over-cautious in situations like this.Quote:
US lifts voluntary evacuation advisory for Japan
.... "The department said on Thursday that the situation is dramatically different now than it was on March 16th when there were significant releases of radioactivity and the loss of effective measures to cool the reactor cores and spent fuel." .....
No, you got it wrong. There are elections this year in Germany and and the curent coalition is about to loose and chancelor Merkel to loose her seat, while there is a strong anti-nuclear lobby in Germany, so they are grasping everything they can for votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Correct , thats how governments learn :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DarthShader
I prey this unreal quake crysis won't be the doom of us all, but I fear it might.
Seriously, it's like a battlefield out there.
Living in Japan, you probably have noticed or know of an often saying amongst the Japanese, "Shikata ga nai," or "Sho ga nai," meaning "It can't be helped."Quote:
Originally Posted by miahallen
As an Asian-American I dont agree with this sentiment all the time, but i feel this is an attitude shared among many other Asian cultures. "Just have to bite your tongue and endure."
I just pray this type of attitude doesnt dig them deeper in the hole they are already in.
http://pic.phyrefile.com/h/hb/hbriz/..._did_there.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Jumba
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/17_01.html
Contamination in sea water rises again... sounds like there is another leak from the tunnel network into the ocean?
TEPCO issues 6-9 month containment plan
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/17_15.html
Great, Thats long enough to have another catastrophy somewhere else where greed and bonuses and lack of conscious and denial rules. Maybe say goodbye to everything you love in the ocean.
well, guess I better stock up on tuna...
So Jumba's post was left alone, mine was removed?
I quoted saaya and asked a valid question as well.
AGAIN:
Did they ever stop dumping contaminated water into the sea?
huh? what? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueagent6
somebody mentioned that this accident has no relevance to the US... and that this couldnt happen in the us... thats at least how i understood it
not sure what you mean...
IF the fault line in cali ruptures, and its overdue according to experts i read, and something like fukushima happens in the eastcoast, it would affect the entire US and not only cali i think...
fallout: new vegas here we come! :D
dont get it... IS germany exiting nuclear energy, yes or no?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthShader
then how can you start your post with NO? :confused:
i never said they do it because they believe its the right thing to do...
they do it because the voters want it...
thats why politians do anything to begin with... they rarely do much to begin with, and when they do, its cause they have to, not cause they personally think its the right thing to do...
in the end, the german citizens put the gov under enough pressure to do the right thing... in asia things are different, you do what your told and hope your superior knows what hes doing and will provide for you... in this situation the higher ups clearly dont take good care of their trustees... :(
about the 6-9month plan tepco announced now...
im sure people who live within the 30-40km evacuation zone will be reliefed to hear they will build a wall around the wrecked reactors and hang some dustfilters over the fuel rod campfire boiling within for a few years... yay!
im sure they cant wait to get back and raise their kids next to this marvel of human ingenuity, a true testament to modern technology!
ok, enough with the sarcasm already, but seriously...
thats all they could come up with? a make-shift cooling system under the open sky, using fractured tunnels that seem to be leaking into the ground water and ocean? (ground water radiation/contamination at fukushima below the reactors has increased 40 fold over the past days)
and then building walls around it with dust filters?
and then what, are they curious how long it will take for the reactor pressure vessels to fully rupture, rust and blow up?
how long do they plan to keep stuff boiling like this?
sounds like it will be years?
i dont get why they dont cut the reactors pressure vessels or reactor cores out of the base and submerge them in a newer, larger containment vessel with cooling system that can be sealed off?
or why dont they release the pressure inside the reactors, filter the gas or capture it and filter it later, open the reactors and move the fuel rods into a new pressure vessel one by one and then seal that and cool it?
sure, there will be a release of radioactivity, but i doubt its gonna be a lot compared to what has been released already and will be released over the months if not years if they keep this stuff boiling...
id prefer a sudden release of radioactivity and isotopes in a controlled manner and then its OVER!!! once and for all, the fuel rods are back in a safe vessel and nothing is leaking out anymore... nada... its over... they can start cleaning up the mess and people can return to their homes...
their plan almost sounds like they want to turn this into a museum people can visit and gander upon the marvel of a meltdown and take pics of it
look momy look! theres some "slightly" radioactive smoke coming out the filters! its glowing in the dark, cool! :stick:
controlled dumping? yes...Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2
uncontrolled? probably not...
they emptied water that was contaminated "lightly compared to the water in the tunnels" which they said was HIGHLY contaminated, iirc it emitted 100msv, enough to kill you if youd swim for it for a few hours if i remember those sievert numbers correctly
but they never said how contaminated the "lightly" contaminated water was exactly... but after they released it the sea water was measured at up to 7.x million times the safety limit... :stick:
they also didnt mention what isotopes it contained...
after they started pumping the highly contaminated water out of the tunnels into the basins they had emptied into the sea, they noticed it was leaking back into the tunnels, and it was more than they could possibly capture, so they stopped pumping it out... the levels then continued to rise and are going to spill over into the ocean soon if they dont do something.
and they are above what they used to be before they started pumping water out of the tunnels, and in the past days sea water radiation increased again, which sounds like there is at least one more leak from the tunnels into the ocean somehow... as there was no controlled release of radioactive water... at least none they announced... then again they only announced the big dump after it had happened already... and maybe next time they wont even announce it cause they got so many complains about it...
sad, but thats how tepco and the japanese government seem to act...
if people dont like to hear something, do it and just dont tell them...
another point is indirect leaks through the ground water.
ground water contamination below the reactors was only measured once every 7 days before :stick:
now they found it has increased 40 fold over last week and measure it daily
but they didnt mention what levels of contamination we are talking about here... 40 times more than last week, but last week was what, below safety limits? 10.000 above limits? :stick:
they didnt mention what isotopes they detected either...
so many unanswered questions...
and kan yet again adressed the public and reassured them that from now on they will REALLY release all important information...
save it... people stopped believing him when he said it the 5th time in a row without releasing ANY additional info whatsoever...
So to sum it up...
in half a year from now we will have a make shift contraption set up designed to LIMIT the amount of leaks and contamination.
awesome... thats the best tepco can come up with? 0_o
If putting the most industrially advanced country in western europe in a position where they'll have to rely even more on Russian gas supplies for power(with the gas running through all the joke countries such as Ukraine who can turn the tap off if the mood strikes) as well as having to burn even more fossil fuel is the right thing then I'm sorry but I'd rather stick to the wrong thing, abandoning nuclear power because of fear mongering from the media and because the clueless general public are getting their panties in a bunch is not sound government it's quite the opposite and will potentially cripple or at least severely impact Germany's future as an industrial nation as well as going to power sources that will certainly pollute more than a functional nuclear plant. And once again it was a bloody earthquake it didn't just break on it's own, I'd like to see you run a government and see how well you handle Tsunami's and all that other crap especially in a country that's got such a high population per square km. My bet is: you'll fail way worse than the Japanese government you criticize so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Germany used to have wood gas plants to make there own fuel out of burnables.
If it weren't for the UN, they could be growing hemp right now just for that.
After ww2 they probably got torn down.
Back in the day, the majority of there fuel was from wood gas, not from Russia.
They even flew there jets with it, it was called J2, it used the fuel from the wood gas and a touch of hydrogen peroxide to increase the octane.
They used to drive cars with coal or blocks of wood that turned into fuel to burned in the reg combustion engines.
It's an alternative fuel that has been around for so long, way way before we started making fuel from corn and algea.
The american gov even pays people to grow corn for fuel down south.
Yet it doesn't actually do anything to affect our gas pricings, nor is a good idea to grow corn just to burn it, it tears the heck out of the ground it's grown in, needs tons of nitrogen to produce.
There are alternatives, and there are better ways of handling fossil fuels as well.
But no one cares.
At least no one cared when gas prices were under a dollar and everyone could afford ultra high octane gas, but those days are long gone...
Wood gas, algea gas, solar sterling dishes..., vertical wind turbines, etc.
There are some alternatives, just no one seems to care.
The other day when doing lawn work, I was thinking we could be ground down our leaves into wood pellets.
You can get steal red hot with just a handful of wood pellets with the right setup...
It has potential.
That's just off reg wood, not the enriched stuff you could be making out of hemp wood or oil.
Telling people this seems to be a moot point though.
If any of you smoke weed, have you ever noticed your weed sometimes has a flame of it's own?
The same goes for resin from it, if good enough it'll catch on fire and keep a flame, like it's fuel or something.
That's because it is..., it's low octane fuel (yeah you were essentially huffing gas lol, think about that next time you goto smoke resin lol).
Ah whatever though.
I'm just saying there are alternatives but they aren't taken seriously or haven't been for a very long time because of the oil industry.
Edit:
Here's an alright example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSgL0Ie4zrI
That truck is pretty darn old and still running good...
You could probably do alot better these days.
Robots probe darkened reactor No. 3, Finally robots going in
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...ex.html?hpt=T2
First BP kills off all the mermaids in the gulf and now this.Quote:
well, guess I better stock up on tuna...
Truly not looking good now though from the reports. Hopefully the robo's find the issue.
Not sure how you see no immediate threat. I thought I read that most of the crops are above safe limits of radioactivity? No idea where Japan has its drinking water but rain runoff from the area around the plant could easily widen the affected area by a vast amount.Quote:
Originally Posted by miahallen
Stay safe over there.
I'm not a chef either, does that mean I can't complain about a dead rat in my soup? This "you couldn't have done better" argument is deeply flawed. Let's turn it upside down, you're saying the gov did the best they possibly could have done? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Linchpin
I think you fail to see Germans exit from nuclear power for what it is.
Germany isn't an island and Europe features a very well developed grid. The percentage of nuclear power will remain about the same, and there won't be more fossil fules burned. What's the point then? Nuclear power will be imported more and more as reactors get phased out step by step, which will obviously cost more than producing it domestically. This whole thing will in practise work as a tax on nuclear energy in Germany, increasing price pressure to develop alternative energy sources. Long term this puts Germany in a very good position and its likely they will continue to be one of the leading nations in deploying alternative energy.