Nehalem-EP......BLOOMFIELD

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Originally Posted by Epsilon84

Yeah, and that extra 4% is really gonna close the gap on Nehalem right? ;)

You complained about people 'crapping' the Deneb threads, do you spot the irony?! I gotta admit though, its funny seeing a fanboy calling someone else a fanboy... :ROTF:

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QFT!

But being an AMD Fanboy is good though:rofl:. Nehalem is evil!

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Originally Posted by informal

Actually it increased 14%,but hey why say 14 when 10% sounds better in intel fanboy ears ?

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It wouldn't matter if it was 20%.

Nehalem improves performance on average over Penryn by 20-30%, and in code where 8+ cores are supported (allowing for SMT to work) the difference can be more like 30-40% or more. Deneb needs to be a solid 10-15% faster than Agena to equal the performance of Penryn.

And no I don't say that with happiness, although I can't wait to get my hands on a Nehalem system. It's not good at all that there is going to be such a wide gap in performance. But there's not much anyone can do about it except hope that AMD is more competitive in the future and with Bulldozer than they are now.

And outside of a very few people, nobody in this thread is an Intel fanboy. Most of the people praising Nehalem right now were laughing at how terrible the Pentium D was and praising the Athlon 64X2 just three years ago.

To all here;
Lets try to keep this friendly ok.
Some people like AMD, some Intel.
Hell I have an old AMD FX51 in the other room that I think is one hell of a machine for a single core but it's time has come and gone...BUT I still keep it because for what it is, it demands respect.
An interesting point for the AMD lovers:
That little single core FX51@2423mhz would outdo my old dual cpu Intel 2400/512/533 machine in DC work... Yes, great respect for that little beast!

BUT today that isn't the case and why I offered LIKMARK to compare his AMD to my Harpertown which I KNOW, not think, is substantially slower clock for clock than the coming Nehalem 8 core Gainstown system.
I generally use Cinebench 10 to show pure cpu power.
A Gainstown at 3000 will out perform my Harpertown at 3574mhz, the max I was able to push the X5482's I had borrowed for 2 weeks on stock volts.
With those X5482's I was able to pull a SP1m time of 13.297s at 3603/12mb/1800( Yes, 450 on FBDimms! ) and thats on a workstation board with FBDimms and you know how badly WS boards do on SuperPi. For comparison the best I was able to get from the Clovers was 15.5s
Now I can tell you that the Harpertown is pretty damn impressive in it's own right. On a daily basis it produces app 40% more than my 8 core clovertown machines and they aren't that bad.
Now taking all this into consideration can anyone wonder why there is so much excitement over the coming Nehalems?
Lets not get lost in another AMD vs Intel battle.
Someone wants AMD, fine by me, buy it. They can use the money coming in but don't tell me they will benchmark with the current Intels let alone what is coming because they just plain won't do it.
That isn't me being a fanboy, thats just plain fact.

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Originally Posted by Movieman

To all here;
Lets try to keep this friendly ok.
Some people like AMD, some Intel.
Hell I have an old AMD FX51 in the other room that I think is one hell of a machine for a single core but it's time has come and gone...BUT I still keep it because for what it is, it demands respect.
An interesting point for the AMD lovers:
That little single core FX51@2423mhz would outdo my old dual cpu Intel 2400/512/533 machine in DC work... Yes, great respect for that little beast!

BUT today that isn't the case and why I offered LIKMARK to compare his AMD to my Harpertown which I KNOW, not think, is substantially slower clock for clock than the coming Nehalem 8 core Gainstown system.
I generally use Cinebench 10 to show pure cpu power.
A Gainstown at 3000 will out perform my Harpertown at 3574mhz, the max I was able to push the X5482's I had borrowed for 2 weeks on stock volts.
With those X5482's I was able to pull a SP1m time of 13.297s at 3603/12mb/1800( Yes, 450 on FBDimms! ) and thats on a workstation board with FBDimms and you know how badly WS boards do on SuperPi. For comparison the best I was able to get from the Clovers was 15.5s
Now I can tell you that the Harpertown is pretty damn impressive in it's own right. On a daily basis it produces app 40% more than my 8 core clovertown machines and they aren't that bad.
Now taking all this into consideration can anyone wonder why there is so much excitement over the coming Nehalems?
Lets not get lost in another AMD vs Intel battle.
Someone wants AMD, fine by me, buy it. They can use the money coming in but don't tell me they will benchmark with the current Intels let alone what is coming because they just plain won't do it.
That isn't me being a fanboy, thats just plain fact.

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qft!

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Originally Posted by Extelleron

It wouldn't matter if it was 20%.

Nehalem improves performance on average over Penryn by 20-30%, and in code where 8+ cores are supported (allowing for SMT to work) the difference can be more like 30-40% or more. Deneb needs to be a solid 10-15% faster than Agena to equal the performance of Penryn.

And no I don't say that with happiness, although I can't wait to get my hands on a Nehalem system. It's not good at all that there is going to be such a wide gap in performance. But there's not much anyone can do about it except hope that AMD is more competitive in the future and with Bulldozer than they are now.

And outside of a very few people, nobody in this thread is an Intel fanboy. Most of the people praising Nehalem right now were laughing at how terrible the Pentium D was and praising the Athlon 64X2 just three years ago.

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You got that right, but you know that's not good enough for some! Nehalem scores are likely to go up as firmware and etc.. is tweaked. We laughed at Hotscott in the Intel part of the forum and no one called it thread crapping!

Nehalem will rock=P Good night guys!

Enough with the QFT for Gods sake.

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Originally Posted by Aberration

Enough with the QFT for Gods sake.

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QFT!



I couldn't resist :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

QFT!



I couldn't resist :rolleyes:

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Just checking the rules to see if I can ban an XIP!:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

You started thread crapping and 807 is a thread crap if there ever was one! If what went on in the Deneb thread is thread crapping then yours and others are just that=P

Your idea of trying to compare two Quad Cores to One breaks any rule of comparisons except for a Desperate AMD Fanboy move. This made even more lame by trying to down play costs. You do something silly like comparing used buggy items to products not shipping or even new is a bad joke:down:

You and your buddies don't understand benchmarking, you don't get price to performance and it is just like I said, just win baby! Nehalem's price lists were given. No one is complaining about yours and other's post "Nit-Picking" because unlike those AMD threads, no one cares that you don't get it:up: Nehalem doesn't need propaganda like K10 or whatever.

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I would have to disagree. I feel its a very relevant comparison. Especially if you have a thresh-hold of performance, your server needs to meet, as a company that is useful to know. And then it really does come down to price/perf, a 1p intel server vs a 2p amd server with 8 cores theoretically, a comparison between the two is very relevant. Of course google and the like just want max performance, but small business, that have 1 or 2 servers, with specific performance requirements, the dollars and cents of performance vs operating costs on the hair thin margins most web based business operates on, this is a big deal. It will be a real comparison, once nehalem does start shipping, and from what those graphs say... nehalem seems pretty damn efficient, in that regard. So I m not sure how trying to create a realworld comparison as to what will exist in the marketplace is Fanboyism.. I like seeing those numbers to be honest, I know how intel performs against itself :P

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

You started thread crapping and 807 is a thread crap if there ever was one! If what went on in the Deneb thread is thread crapping then yours and others are just that=P

Your idea of trying to compare two Quad Cores to One breaks any rule of comparisons except for a Desperate AMD Fanboy move. This made even more lame by trying to down play costs. You do something silly like comparing used buggy items to products not shipping or even new is a bad joke:down:

You and your buddies don't understand benchmarking, you don't get price to performance and it is just like I said, just win baby! Nehalem's price lists were given. No one is complaining about yours and other's post "Nit-Picking" because unlike those AMD threads, no one cares that you don't get it:up: Nehalem doesn't need propaganda like K10 or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

According to at least 5 AMD fans posting in this thread, if you use both, you're still an Intel Fan. If you weren't an Intel Fanboy or Girl you'd only buy AMD=P

Most folks in this forum will buy Nehalem if it rocks but if AMD pulled something out of its anus, we'd be on it as well=P Just as I skipped Presshot and bought a 3500+.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

QFT!

But being an AMD Fanboy is good though:rofl:. Nehalem is evil!

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

qft!

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

You got that right, but you know that's not good enough for some! Nehalem scores are likely to go up as firmware and etc.. is tweaked. We laughed at Hotscott in the Intel part of the forum and no one called it thread crapping!

Nehalem will rock=P Good night guys!

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5 constructive posts as usual.

Please explain to me the "rules of comparison". I were not aware that I broke your laws of comparing two products. I did not know that if a product were bought on ebay, or was an ES (not released yet) it invalidated the entire comparison. If that rule applies. XS mods need to get their fingers out and moderate all those comparisons we see of new unreleased products. I did not know comparing one cpu setup with a two cpu setup were not allowed either. How would you know the benefits and drawbacks of one cpu system vs a two cpu system if those comparisons were not done?

Please show me where I have downplayed costs. I did not mention costs, this was mentioned by your friend Shintai, and to be honest he downplayed nehalem costs by not mentioning that you'll need a new board and ram.

In every other forum in the internet a comparison of a coming product with products that is out today would be welcomed, even appreciated, but not on XS. Here you get ridiculed by threadcrappers with the mods blessing, wich IMO shouts out where the closet stands. Pardon my bad english, hoping readers understand. That you classify comparing an AMD setup with an Intel setup as threadcrapping is beyond me.

Wonder what the comment would have been like if I compared the nehalem benches with another Intel system like MM is gonna do? Don't think you would have complained as much, probably would have been busy wtf qft bbq'ing all over the place in hope of getting a kind word from one of your heroes.

As for the fanboi remarks, I have my share of Intel setups, so you know where to put those remarks.

On the other hand being marked as a fanboi by you and Shintai almost wants me to bear the mark proudly.

I bought a dual socket system on ebay, and chose AMD because it was cheap, and I find K10 more fun to play with than Core2 and it's FSB. Just as Nehalem will be more fun to play with because of it's advanced arcitechture.

Well thats as much energy I'm gonna use on your remarks. (Much more than what you deserve).

@MM: I'm gonna quote you from deepthought86's thread in the "Forum FAQs and Guidelines" section :

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I assume you mean Shintai and Donny27?
Two good people. Strong personalities I will grant you

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Aww come ON, I don't understand why you mods let them continue degrading the quality of XS.

Quote from DeepThought86:

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Just try banning them as an experiment, say for 2 weeks. You can put up a poll to see if people think the News forums are improved or not. But I think you know what the results will be...

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The best suggestion I have heard here on XS, actually it is sig material..

@Villa1n: Watch your back and don your flamesuit for not agreeing with the news section mascot.

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Originally Posted by LIKMARK

5 constructive posts as usual.

Please explain to me the "rules of comparison". I were not aware that I broke your laws of comparing two products. I did not know that if a product were bought on ebay, or was an ES (not released yet) it invalidated the entire comparison. If that rule applies. XS mods need to get their fingers out and moderate all those comparisons we see of new unreleased products. I did not know comparing one cpu setup with a two cpu setup were not allowed either. How would you know the benefits and drawbacks of one cpu system vs a two cpu system if those comparisons were not done?

Please show me where I have downplayed costs. I did not mention costs, this was mentioned by your friend Shintai, and to be honest he downplayed nehalem costs by not mentioning that you'll need a new board and ram.

In every other forum in the internet a comparison of a coming product with products that is out today would be welcomed, even appreciated, but not on XS. Here you get ridiculed by threadcrappers with the mods blessing, wich IMO shouts out where the closet stands. Pardon my bad english, hoping readers understand. That you classify comparing an AMD setup with an Intel setup as threadcrapping is beyond me.

Wonder what the comment would have been like if I compared the nehalem benches with another Intel system like MM is gonna do? Don't think you would have complained as much, probably would have been busy wtf qft bbq'ing all over the place in hope of getting a kind word from one of your heroes.

As for the fanboi remarks, I have my share of Intel setups, so you know where to put those remarks.

On the other hand being marked as a fanboi by you and Shintai almost wants me to bear the mark proudly.

I bought a dual socket system on ebay, and chose AMD because it was cheap, and I find K10 more fun to play with than Core2 and it's FSB. Just as Nehalem will be more fun to play with because of it's advanced arcitechture.

Well thats as much energy I'm gonna use on your remarks. (Much more than what you deserve).

@MM: I'm gonna quote you from deepthought86's thread in the "Forum FAQs and Guidelines" section :

Aww come ON, I don't understand why you mods let them continue degrading the quality of XS.

Quote from DeepThought86:

The best suggestion I have heard here on XS, actually it is sig material..

@Villa1n: Watch your back and don your flamesuit for not agreeing with the news section mascot.

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Where to start..
Yes, you quoted me correctly about Donnie and Shintai.
can I tell you something?
BOTH I actually got to know after asking both to calm down a bit in the threads so I wasn't exactly predisposed to be their "best buddy"
BUT I found both to be pretty sharp guys that knew their stuff.
Shintai's knowledge is at a level that most here couldn't touch but he is still reasonably young( by my perspective at age 56) and the passions of youth do enter his posts.
That doesn't take away from his knowledge, just taint's it with passion.
Now to you and I have no issues with you at all, I think the problem came up from trying to compare your 8 core to the 4 core Bloomfield.
Just not a reasonable comparision at all.
Forget HT, it's not part of the equation in this regard.
4 cores vs 8 just doesn't fly.
Cripes, I remember beating FUGGER's Cinebench score with his Yorkfield at 5500MHz on his cascade with my clovertown on air at 3258..
You can't compare them so this point has to be dropped.
This again, is why I offered to compare my Harper vs your AMD since we don't have a fully functional 8 core Nehalem to use for a comparison.
It would show at the very least how the current AMD stands up against the current Intel core for core and that is a valid comparision.
Now it's 2:50am here, I have a plumber coming at 8:30am so I need some sleep. We can pick this up in 18 hours or so if you wish and I'd prefer it if we all could do this as friends in search of knowledge not people swinging hammers at one another. That benefits no one and just makes my two typing fingers feel like lead at the end of the day.
My best to you all..
Good night..

No one not allowing you to compare with Nehalem, you get the charts from Hornet311 right, all showed up. No one resist Barcelona result you provide ... Until ... (see below) -->

But the problem is you wrongfully compare it with Bloomfield, that's simply different rank with your 2*Barcelona ... That's the first place I provided you the same speed of Gainestown 2.4GHz right ? ... But it has been ignored :yepp: Plus oww, its show 16threads, BUG ?

Still couldn't accept the HT thread thing that showed on OS I think :ROTF: Totally different thing though ...

And, now what ? all become attacking other members personalities ... :up:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

I think the problem came up from trying to compare your 8 core to the 4 core Bloomfield.
Just not a reasonable comparision at all.

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Jcornell:

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But the problem is you wrongfully compare it with Bloomfield, that's simply different rank with your 2*Barcelona ... That's the first place I provided you the same speed of Gainestown 2.4GHz right ? ... But it has been ignored Plus oww, its show 16threads, BUG ?

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But why is this not an reasonable comparison??! It sounds like a very reasonable comparison to me if you are in a situation where your computing needs could be met by a Quad core Ht enabled system, or if you'll maybe need a dual cpu setup. Wouldn't you want to know wich system suits your needs best?

The 16 thread question was a fair question wich I found out myself when looking closer, np.

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Originally Posted by LIKMARK

Jcornell:


But why is this not an reasonable comparison??! It sounds like a very reasonable comparison to me if you are in a situation where your computing needs could be met by a Quad core Ht enabled system, or if you'll maybe need a dual cpu setup. Wouldn't you want to know wich system suits your needs best?

The 16 thread question was a fair question wich I found out myself when looking closer, np.

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Don't know how to talk into you about RANK/HT now ?
Not reasonable ? I think I've chosen WRONGFULLY(COMPLETELY WRONG) to represent this matter.

Okay, okay ... I'll try find some old 2.4GHz Bloomfield chip in the trash and bench it for you, then your Barcelona will shine again, because Bloomfield 2.93GHz 8threads is truely cheating on your Barcelona 2.3GHz*2.
Satisfied? (for you I think) ...

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Originally Posted by Movieman

I'll run the benches tomorrow at stock speed of 3000mhz
These are 80w E5450's..OEM's not Es's..
Board is a SM X7DWA-N
PCP+C 750w Silencer
4x1 gig DDR2-800 kingston HyperX FBDimms
Air cooled with my own cooling mix
single 36 gig raptor

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im waiting for those numbers, if you dont mind i'll add them to the charts.

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Originally Posted by villa1n

I would have to disagree. I feel its a very relevant comparison. Especially if you have a thresh-hold of performance, your server needs to meet, as a company that is useful to know. And then it really does come down to price/perf, a 1p intel server vs a 2p amd server with 8 cores theoretically, a comparison between the two is very relevant. Of course google and the like just want max performance, but small business, that have 1 or 2 servers, with specific performance requirements, the dollars and cents of performance vs operating costs on the hair thin margins most web based business operates on, this is a big deal. It will be a real comparison, once nehalem does start shipping, and from what those graphs say... nehalem seems pretty damn efficient, in that regard. So I m not sure how trying to create a realworld comparison as to what will exist in the marketplace is Fanboyism.. I like seeing those numbers to be honest, I know how intel performs against itself :P

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good point, but we dont know how intel gona price gainestown, and it seems that if there is a 2,4ghz version it will be priced according to amd offer, with preium price for the higher clocked versions.

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Originally Posted by LIKMARK

Please explain to me the "rules of comparison". I were not aware that I broke your laws of comparing two products. I did not know that if a product were bought on ebay, or was an ES (not released yet) it invalidated the entire comparison. If that rule applies. XS mods need to get their fingers out and moderate all those comparisons we see of new unreleased products. I did not know comparing one cpu setup with a two cpu setup were not allowed either. How would you know the benefits and drawbacks of one cpu system vs a two cpu system if those comparisons were not done?

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the comparrison is not invalid, but it makes no sense to compare them, cause everyone knows that 8 physical cores are faster then 8 logical cores (4 physical with HT)

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Originally Posted by LIKMARK

In every other forum in the internet a comparison of a coming product with products that is out today would be welcomed, even appreciated, but not on XS. Here you get ridiculed by threadcrappers with the mods blessing, wich IMO shouts out where the closet stands. Pardon my bad english, hoping readers understand. That you classify comparing an AMD setup with an Intel setup as threadcrapping is beyond me.

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what, i dont know what forum you are browsing, but xs still welcomes reviews of upcoming hardware.

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Originally Posted by LIKMARK

Wonder what the comment would have been like if I compared the nehalem benches with another Intel system like MM is gonna do? Don't think you would have complained as much, probably would have been busy wtf qft bbq'ing all over the place in hope of getting a kind word from one of your heroes.

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maybe that has something to do that mm wouldn't try to compare a single socket system to a dualsocket system, if he would try to compare his harpertown rig to bloomfield, im sure he would earn the same criticism )nothing against you mm ;) )

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Originally Posted by LIKMARK

I bought a dual socket system on ebay, and chose AMD because it was cheap, and I find K10 more fun to play with than Core2 and it's FSB. Just as Nehalem will be more fun to play with because of it's advanced arcitechture.

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man everytime i hear this argument i cant help myself, i have to grin... what is so fun on tweaking a system for hours to gain next to nothing?
I have nothing against tweaking, but when it gets excessive and the results are rather weak its not my thing.
I take the "simple and not funny" fsb system every time over the "complex and funny" HT K10 system anyday.

I really hope that ocing doen't get more complicated with nehalem, i dont want to fiedle around for hours to just get some basic overclocking resulst, but if i hunt for max performance i welcome those options.

You're not serious too to compete below system with Phenom right ? :doh:
Bring it on, I'm ready :CTF: ... 4 threads vs 4 threads right ? :clap:
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...neous/Pres.jpg

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you still have a Pentium D system up and running? wow nice one. :up:

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Originally Posted by JCornell

Don't know how to talk into you about RANK/HT now ?
Not reasonable ? I think I've chosen WRONGFULLY(COMPLETELY WRONG) to represent this matter.

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I'm meaning no disrespect, and understand english is not your native language (just like me), but I do not understand what you are trying to say with those two sentences. Could you elaborate?

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Okay, okay ... I'll try find some old 2.4GHz Bloomfield chip in the trash and bench it for you, then your Barcelona will shine again, because Bloomfield 2.93GHz 8threads is truely cheating on your Barcelona 2.3GHz*2.
Satisfied? (for you I think) ...

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Ok now I understand.

I'm getting all this sh1t because my dual cpu setup outperformed one single nehalem in one or two benchmarks. My intetions vere not to make nehalem look bad, and I assumed most XS readers understand that there is a difference between 1 cpu -> 2 cpu systems. That's why I did not comment further on it. I am not after making my dual AMD system shine on the expense of a pre launch single nehalem, I am not stupid, I know Nehalem will outperform Barcelona and most possibly Shanghai with a fair margin.

As an enthusiast myself I believed people here would be interested in a comparison between the different systems (as I have stated a lot of times now)

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

im waiting for those numbers, if you dont mind i'll add them to the charts.

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I think there's no need to MM to bench his Harpertown against Barcelona, b'cause this is not the point anyway ... :yepp:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

maybe that has something to do that mm wouldn't try to compare a single socket system to a dualsocket system, if he would try to compare his harpertown rig to bloomfield, im sure he would earn the same criticism )nothing against you mm)

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If so, I'll be in sanitarium by now lol :shocked:

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Originally Posted by JCornell

You're not serious too to compete below system with Phenom right ? :doh:
Bring it on, I'm ready :CTF: ... 4 threads vs 4 threads right ? :clap:
[IMG]*snip*[/IMG]

...

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ffs, how many different rigs do you own? hehehe :D

even though i agree with you all that comparing a dualsocket to a singlesocket system isn't that fair - especially if the singlesocket cpu has not the same amount of physical threads. BUT still, even if the comparison isn't fair it's still valid to do such a comparison due to the reasons LIKMARK mentioned: IF a dualsocket barcelona system performs about the same as a singlesocket nehalem system, but only costs a fractional amount i think the comparison is justifiable.

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Originally Posted by LIKMARK

I'm meaning no disrespect, and understand english is not your native language (just like me), but I do not understand what you are trying to say with those two sentences. Could you elaborate?

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Dang, Between "NOT REASONABLE" and "WRONG" ? Someone here is English teacher ? Or I'll kidnap my English Teacher to give some course ...

Or you can just simply translate Reasonable + Not to Norway language ... and translate the Wrong too ... :p

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

the comparrison is not invalid, but it makes no sense to compare them, cause everyone knows that 8 physical cores are faster then 8 logical cores (4 physical with HT)

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Yes everyone knows that 8 logical threads is faster than 4logical and 4 virtual threads, and I thought it would be nice to see some numbers, not just the general statement that 8 vs 4+4virual is faster. Will anyone tell me why there is no sense of comparing 8 threads/cores with 4+4 threads/cores- ht virtual threads/cores? I find it interesting to compare this, and I believe as said before:

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But why is this not an reasonable comparison??! It sounds like a very reasonable comparison to me if you are in a situation where your computing needs could be met by a Quad core Ht enabled system, or if you'll maybe need a dual cpu setup. Wouldn't you want to know wich system suits your needs best?

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that buyers would like to know what meet their computing needs and cost the less.


It was not intended as a showdown to crap on nehalem perf, something it obviously appears most readers believe.

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what, i dont know what forum you are browsing, but xs still welcomes reviews of upcoming hardware.

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It was a response to Donnie27's lame remarks, please read again to get context.

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maybe that has something to do that mm wouldn't try to compare a single socket system to a dualsocket system, if he would try to compare his harpertown rig to bloomfield, im sure he would earn the same criticism )nothing against you mm ;) )

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well I would like to know the difference.

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man everytime i hear this argument i cant help myself, i have to grin... what is so fun on tweaking a system for hours to gain next to nothing?
I have nothing against tweaking, but when it gets excessive and the results are rather weak its not my thing.
I take the "simple and not funny" fsb system every time over the "complex and funny" HT K10 system anyday.

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Yes we are all different. As I don't intend to go Xtreme on overclocking (DI/LN2) there is no way for me to for example show my skills in tweaking a intel system as some dude with the right connexions/money craps on your oc with his LN2 system.

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I really hope that ocing doen't get more complicated with nehalem, i dont want to fiedle around for hours to just get some basic overclocking resulst, but if i hunt for max performance i welcome those options.

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Again, people are different :)

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Originally Posted by JCornell

You're not serious too to compete below system with Phenom right ? :doh:
Bring it on, I'm ready :CTF: ... 4 threads vs 4 threads right ? :clap:
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...neous/Pres.jpg

...

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I would be interested in seeing Netburst/Core2/Nehalem/K8/K10 thread efficiency (or whatever to call it), in a variety of relevant benchmarks. That is because I find such things interesting, not to crap over the guy with the worst performing system, wich obviously is the way to go here in this section.

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Originally Posted by RaZz!

even though i agree with you all that comparing a dualsocket to a singlesocket system isn't that fair - especially if the singlesocket cpu has not the same amount of physical threads. BUT still, even if the comparison isn't fair it's still valid to do such a comparison due to the reasons LIKMARK mentioned: IF a dualsocket barcelona system performs about the same as a singlesocket nehalem system, but only costs a fractional amount i think the comparison is justifiable.

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but thats the thing we dont know, we dont know the pricing of xeon procs, and as i mentioned eralier, if intel releases a 2,4ghz gainestown that slightly undercuts DP opterons in price the whole comparisson between singel socket and dual socket makes even less sense.

Bloomfield is a highend desktop chip and not aimed at servers thats why we have Xeon.
Why should a company buy a bloomfield rig (where the proc costs 1000€ alone) when they can get 2 gainestown procs (lets asume 400€ each) for a lower price which perform a lot better in multithreaded apps (thought they are clocked lower, lats say at 2,4ghz) and simply crush bloomfield?

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I think I've chosen WRONGFULLY(COMPLETELY WRONG) to represent this matter.

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This I don't get:confused:

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Originally Posted by JCornell

Dang, Between "NOT REASONABLE" and "WRONG" ? Someone here is English teacher ? Or I'll kidnap my English Teacher to give some course ...

Or you can just simply translate Reasonable + Not to Norway language ... and translate the Wrong too ... :p

---

And you can lay off that patronizing act, it does not become you when you display such an obvious lack of english education.

Your teacher probably would have deserved being kidnapped due to failure to learn his students what they need to know to have a normal conversation. But again, it might not be the teachers fault the student ain't getting it...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LIKMARK

Yes everyone knows that 8 logical threads is faster than 4logical and 4 virtual threads, and I thought it would be nice to see some numbers, not just the general statement that 8 vs 4+4virual is faster. Will anyone tell me why there is no sense of comparing 8 threads/cores with 4+4 threads/cores- ht virtual threads/cores? I find it interesting to compare this, and I believe as said before:
=
It was not intended as a showdown to crap on nehalem perf, something it obviously appears most readers believe.
=
I would be interested in seeing Netburst/Core2/Nehalem/K8/K10 thread efficiency (or whatever to call it), in a variety of relevant benchmarks. That is because I find such things interesting, not to crap over the guy with the worst performing system, wich obviously is the way to go here in this section.

---

Interesting ? ok, no prob, but it's not represent correct/precise ...
Oh Ow, Here we go again ... You're at origin point now ... Extra Point ...
Circle = Round = Never End :ROTF:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hornet331

but thats the thing we dont know, we dont know the pricing of xeon procs, and as i mentioned eralier, if intel releases a 2,4ghz gainestown that slightly undercuts DP opterons in price the whole comparisson between singel socket and dual socket makes even less sense.

Bloomfield is a highend desktop chip and not aimed at servers thats why we have Xeon.
Why should a company buy a bloomfield rig (where the procs costs 1000€ alone) when they can get 2 gainestown procs (lets asume 400€ wach) for a lower price which perform a lot better in multithreaded apps (thought they are clocked lower, lats say at 2,4ghz) and simply crush bloomfield?

---

Wich is why i said this:

Quote:

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Guys.. Lets compare prices when they're out, and then the whole systems...

---

on page 35..

I think the price/perf comparison would be most relevant to small companies/ WS market, rather than the big companies looking for servers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LIKMARK

This I don't get:confused:


And you can lay off that patronizing act, it does not become you when you display such an obvious lack of english education.

Your teacher probably would have deserved being kidnapped due to failure to learn his students what they need to know to have a normal conversation. But again, it might not be the teachers fault the student ain't getting it...

---

Ow, don't be rude ... :D
What's wrong with those sentences ? :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JCornell

Interesting ? ok, no prob, but it's not represent correct/precise ...
Oh Ow, Here we go again ... You're at origin point now ... Extra Point ...
Circle = Round = Never End :ROTF:

---

replies like this confirms your immaturity. "lets laugh it off and try to ridicule some more, because I don't have anything else to bring to the discussion" Welcome to the level of discussion I know a few other news section frequentors are known to be on. (no names mentioned)


EDIT: Ah, whatever, I have other things to spend my time on rather than discussing this.

*goes back to study the smoothnes of my AMD rig*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LIKMARK

Ok now I understand.

I'm getting all this sh1t because my dual cpu setup outperformed one single nehalem in one or two benchmarks. My intetions vere not to make nehalem look bad, and I assumed most XS readers understand that there is a difference between 1 cpu -> 2 cpu systems. That's why I did not comment further on it. I am not after making my dual AMD system shine on the expense of a pre launch single nehalem, I am not stupid, I know Nehalem will outperform Barcelona and most possibly Shanghai with a fair margin.

---

Seriously, Do you get it, or not ? ...

then i dont know why you insist on comparing 2 opterons to bloomfield?

you already knew that bloomfield would lose to your to opterons, even with bloomfield clocked at 3ghz+. But compared to gainestown with same frequency it just plain loses. But what is really interesstening, is that the opterons still have a superior FPU power compared to nehalem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hornet331

then i dont know why you insist on comparing 2 opterons to bloomfield?

you already knew that bloomfield would lose to your to opterons, even with bloomfield clocked at 3ghz+. But compared to gainestown with same frequenzy it just plain loses. But what is really interesstening, is that the opterons still have a superior FPU power compared to nehalem.

---

ok last one :D

IT IS NOT ABOUT WHO LOOSES OR WHO IS THE BEST. IT IS ABOUT THE NUMBERS. I FIND THE NUMBERS INTERESTING, AND SO SHOULD EVERYONE NOT BEING A FANBOI TOO.

goodbye (If I can help myself)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LIKMARK

replies like this confirms your immaturity. "lets laugh it off and try to ridicule some more, because I don't have anything else to bring to the discussion" Welcome to the level of discussion I know a few other news section frequentors are known to be on. (no names mentioned)


EDIT: Ah, whatever, I have other things to spend my time on rather than discussing this.

*goes back to study the smoothnes of my AMD rig*

---

You can judged whatever you want ... Thank You my love ... :)

Good luck though ... Don't dream too long, remember to wake up ... don't follow the light ... PLEASE !!! I'm begging You ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hornet331

then i dont know why you insist on comparing 2 opterons to bloomfield?

you already knew that bloomfield would lose to your to opterons, even with bloomfield clocked at 3ghz+. But compared to gainestown with same frequency it just plain loses. But what is really interesstening, is that the opterons still have a superior FPU power compared to nehalem.

---

Its useless, bro ...

Circle = Round = Never End .... this is my immaturity for what he called ...

He sure can shift the topic all around, never end though ... all that had been discussed keep floating again ... :rofl:

See, "Numbers" he kept saying ... , but again, he already said he believe he'd understood ...

i think your right. :p:

Jeebus...what a fragfest...

Also for the love of all hardware. Its not 8 logical cores. There is no 4 virtual or whatever. Its 8 logical, 4 physical (With SMT on). But the OS will always only see logical cores. A Yorkfield is 4 logical, 4 physical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LIKMARK

ok last one :D

IT IS NOT ABOUT WHO LOOSES OR WHO IS THE BEST. IT IS ABOUT THE NUMBERS. I FIND THE NUMBERS INTERESTING, AND SO SHOULD EVERYONE NOT BEING A FANBOI TOO.

goodbye (If I can help myself)

---

Changed your tune, I think the problem stems from you saying that the performance looked week and was not impressive because your dual cpu rig was faster, Now you are clamming that the performance did not matter, Just the numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LIKMARK

I for one is not exeptionally impressed with initial Nehalem performance, even less if this is with triple channel memory performance.

That a lower clocked TLB patch ridden old socket F system with less than poor memory performance does this good compared to Nehalem should worry you more than gloating "ownage". If Shanghai corrects TDP and clocks I do not see Nehalem as superior as most people in this thread.

Intel employee dr.who's appearance in this thread support my assumptions IMO.

PS: This is not for starting flame war, but based on quite obvious results. I spent quite a long time doing benches and comparing yesterday, so please don't misunderstand this as threadcrapping :)

---

Just to clarify, You did start this and made a negative assumption on the performance based on a comparison of your system with twice the cores. Your comments where all performance based and it was not just about comparing the numbers. Hope you understand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hornet331

then i dont know why you insist on comparing 2 opterons to bloomfield?

you already knew that bloomfield would lose to your to opterons, even with bloomfield clocked at 3ghz+. But compared to gainestown with same frequency it just plain loses. But what is really interesstening, is that the opterons still have a superior FPU power compared to nehalem.

---

I'd say that is a corner case which should be further investigated.
What exactly is being tested there? It can't be anything related with SSE , that's fairly obvious.Is it x87 ?How does it perform on Core ?

*There is an update to Hwinfo32 that supports Nehalem , dated July 22.Any difference in scores with it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by savantu

I'd say that is a corner case which should be further investigated.
What exactly is being tested there? It can't be anything related with SSE , that's fairly obvious.Is it x87 ?How does it perform on Core ?

*There is an update to Hwinfo32 that supports Nehalem , dated July 22.Any difference in scores with it?

---

isnt SPI also x87, in which core2 and nehalem demolishes K8/K10?

K8/K10 is stronger in x87.

But x87 is dead in x64.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LIKMARK

5 constructive posts as usual.

Please explain to me the "rules of comparison". I were not aware that I broke your laws of comparing two products. I did not know that if a product were bought on ebay, or was an ES (not released yet) it invalidated the entire comparison. If that rule applies. XS mods need to get their fingers out and moderate all those comparisons we see of new unreleased products. I did not know comparing one cpu setup with a two cpu setup were not allowed either. How would you know the benefits and drawbacks of one cpu system vs a two cpu system if those comparisons were not done?

Please show me where I have downplayed costs. I did not mention costs, this was mentioned by your friend Shintai, and to be honest he downplayed nehalem costs by not mentioning that you'll need a new board and ram.

In every other forum in the internet a comparison of a coming product with products that is out today would be welcomed, even appreciated, but not on XS. Here you get ridiculed by threadcrappers with the mods blessing, wich IMO shouts out where the closet stands. Pardon my bad english, hoping readers understand. That you classify comparing an AMD setup with an Intel setup as threadcrapping is beyond me.

Wonder what the comment would have been like if I compared the nehalem benches with another Intel system like MM is gonna do? Don't think you would have complained as much, probably would have been busy wtf qft bbq'ing all over the place in hope of getting a kind word from one of your heroes.

As for the fanboi remarks, I have my share of Intel setups, so you know where to put those remarks.

On the other hand being marked as a fanboi by you and Shintai almost wants me to bear the mark proudly.

I bought a dual socket system on ebay, and chose AMD because it was cheap, and I find K10 more fun to play with than Core2 and it's FSB. Just as Nehalem will be more fun to play with because of it's advanced arcitechture.

Well thats as much energy I'm gonna use on your remarks. (Much more than what you deserve).

@MM: I'm gonna quote you from deepthought86's thread in the "Forum FAQs and Guidelines" section :

Aww come ON, I don't understand why you mods let them continue degrading the quality of XS.

Quote from DeepThought86:

The best suggestion I have heard here on XS, actually it is sig material..

@Villa1n: Watch your back and don your flamesuit for not agreeing with the news section mascot.

---

Let's see, Nehalem's price was listed, you ignored it.

Nehalem's Performance is given from tests, you don't like the result so you change the rules. Try to justify two vs one, conveniently leave out price.

Naw there are no flames needed just by pointing out you don't understand how to benchmark. It is just that simple bench two Nehalems vs. two Barcelonas or one vs. one. Any reviewer doing it any other way without a disclaimer would be laughed off the web.

This is a Nehalem thread. In any AMD thread, any Negative News about AMD or Positive news about Intel is called thread crapping! Then under those standards, yours and that other guys posts are thread Craps! Doesn't bother me at all.

Yeah, I found interesting in here too ... :up:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...6&postcount=51

===

Hey, 4threads VS 4threads, Isn't it Fair enough, clock is neck to neck too ... :up:

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...s/233G_NMC.jpg

XP SP2 PRO 32Bit
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...ous/233G_C.jpg

...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gallag

Changed your tune, I think the problem stems from you saying that the performance looked week and was not impressive because your dual cpu rig was faster, Now you are clamming that the performance did not matter, Just the numbers.



Just to clarify, You did start this and made a negative assumption on the performance based on a comparison of your system with twice the cores. Your comments where all performance based and it was not just about comparing the numbers. Hope you understand.

---

Then you need to read my posts again mister. The only thing I have writen is this:

Quote:

---

I for one is not exeptionally impressed with initial Nehalem performance, even less if this is with triple channel memory performance.

---

This was written as a side note (and I probably were a little irritated from stargazers reply wich was... short. I have to admit). This meaning I am impressed , but not to make me drooling like some others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Donnie27

Let's see, Nehalem's price was listed, you ignored it.

Nehalem's Performance is given from tests, you don't like the result so you change the rules. Try to justify two vs one, conveniently leave out price.

Naw there are no flames needed just by pointing out you don't understand how to benchmark. It is just that simple bench two Nehalems vs. two Barcelonas or one vs. one. Any reviewer doing it any other way without a disclaimer would be laughed off the web.

This is a Nehalem thread. In any AMD thread, any Negative News about AMD or Positive news about Intel is called thread crapping! Then under those standards, yours and that other guys posts are thread Craps! Doesn't bother me at all.

---

It was not writing anything resembling negativity about nehalem (before being taunted, my fault..) I mean that I contributed with showing numbers from the competing side, that way you know what you got.

Threadcrapping is when you contribute nothing exept lols, rofls and generally doing as much as you can to ridicule other posters.. like you're still doing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JCornell

Yeah, I found interesting in here too ... :up:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...6&postcount=51

===

Hey, 4threads VS 4threads, Isn't it Fair enough, clock is neck to neck too ... :up:
..zip..

...

---

:shrug: err.. what? Explain your intet with your post yet again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by villa1n

I would have to disagree. I feel its a very relevant comparison. Especially if you have a thresh-hold of performance, your server needs to meet, as a company that is useful to know. And then it really does come down to price/perf, a 1p intel server vs a 2p amd server with 8 cores theoretically, a comparison between the two is very relevant. Of course google and the like just want max performance, but small business, that have 1 or 2 servers, with specific performance requirements, the dollars and cents of performance vs operating costs on the hair thin margins most web based business operates on, this is a big deal. It will be a real comparison, once nehalem does start shipping, and from what those graphs say... nehalem seems pretty damn efficient, in that regard. So I m not sure how trying to create a realworld comparison as to what will exist in the marketplace is Fanboyism.. I like seeing those numbers to be honest, I know how intel performs against itself :P

---

Sure one vs two, two vs two but use New Prices, not prices for used buggy Items. If Nehalem has bugs, most folks will avoid it as well. Do we factor tests with or without TLB since he has B2's?

Nothing's wrong with theory or simply for data purposes but that's not what's going on here.

He just wanted to show that after 10 month of K10, Intel is still winning in Cineintelbench and nobody has known this before. :rolleyes:.

Common JZ gimme your WPrime, Winrar and Truecrypt shots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boschwanza

He just wanted to show that after 10 month of K10, Intel is still winning in Cineintelbench and nobody has known this before. :rolleyes:.

Common JZ gimme your WPrime, Winrar and Truecrypt shots.

---

they are already there...

btw. JC, Bosch makes a good suggestion can you run Winrar on bloomfield and gainestown?

would be cool. :up:

I have never seen people so opposed to comparing products. Lots of excuses why not to. Who cares what the motivations are. People always have motives behind what they want to see, and on the internet they are not always apparent.

But the fact is, that some of us would just find the numbers interesting, and nothing else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LIKMARK

Then you need to read my posts again mister. The only thing I have writen is this:


This was written as a side note (and I probably were a little irritated from stargazers reply wich was... short. I have to admit). This meaning I am impressed , but not to make me drooling like some others.

It was not writing anything resembling negativity about nehalem (before being taunted, my fault..) I mean that I contributed with showing numbers from the competing side, that way you know what you got.
Threadcrapping is when you contribute nothing exept lols, rofls and generally doing as much as you can to ridicule other posters.. like you're still doing...


:shrug: err.. what? Explain your intet with your post yet again.

---

Yes like commenting on teachers and their teaching methods?

Bold denotes a Thread crap. That's the case in any part of the forum, in any thread meant as positive spin or Pro AMD. Bring up Nehalem, its Price as I did in the Deneb thread, just as you're doing here and its a thread crap. The same thing you're doing here. Pointing that out isn't a thread thread crap.

I've posted thousands of links to reviews featuring Dual Core, Quad Core and etc................ reviews. Post links to any relevant Intel Performance or Price and you get jumped for thread crapping so excuse me if I seem a little short with you! Hell even Movieman knows that:rolleyes:

Again, it is not a slap or a flame to warn you about the proper use of disclaimers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aberration

I have never seen people so opposed to comparing products. Lots of excuses why not to. Who cares what the motivations are. People always have motives behind what they want to see, and on the internet they are not always apparent.

But the fact is, that some of us would just find the numbers interesting, and nothing else.

---

So why do you get so upset when it happens in the Pro AMD threads?

LOL nehalem losing to sucky AMD tech! I mean, people have been "Omg nehalem 8threads crush all Core2 nd AMD can say goodbye! :D :D :D!" ...then a dude comes with two AMDs, 8 threads and kicks nehalem's ass. Quite ironic, isn't it? :D

:|, seriously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calmatory

LOL nehalem losing to sucky AMD tech! I mean, people have been "Omg nehalem 8threads crush all Core2 nd AMD can say goodbye! :D :D :D!" ...then a dude comes with two AMDs, 8 threads and kicks nehalem's ass. Quite ironic, isn't it? :D

:|, seriously.

---

Are people brain damaged here? AMD fanboys comparing a hyperthreading CPU vs. a non-hyperthreading CPU on a PER THREAD basis?!?!?!?

:rofl: :ROTF:

Comparing 2s vs. uniprocessor systems???

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

No, really. This crap is too funny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calmatory

LOL nehalem losing to sucky AMD tech! I mean, people have been "Omg nehalem 8threads crush all Core2 nd AMD can say goodbye! :D :D :D!" ...then a dude comes with two AMDs, 8 threads and kicks nehalem's ass. Quite ironic, isn't it? :D

:|, seriously.

---

No, cause you have 4 physic cores + 4 virtual, witch isn't equal to 8 physic cores.

Sarcasm, people, sarcasm! Thus the ":|, seriously". :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by savantu

I'd say that is a corner case which should be further investigated.
What exactly is being tested there? It can't be anything related with SSE , that's fairly obvious.Is it x87 ?How does it perform on Core ?

*There is an update to Hwinfo32 that supports Nehalem , dated July 22.Any difference in scores with it?

---

I've often wondered the same thing about SPi. Any insights and what exactly is being tested in that particular case as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calmatory

Sarcasm, people, sarcasm! Thus the ":|, seriously". :up:

---

Oops, sorry. :P

But some people here really are trying to make a serious comparison on a per-thread basis, and that really is just laughable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calmatory

LOL nehalem losing to sucky AMD tech! I mean, people have been "Omg nehalem 8threads crush all Core2 nd AMD can say goodbye! :D :D :D!" ...then a dude comes with two AMDs, 8 threads and kicks nehalem's ass. Quite ironic, isn't it? :D

:|, seriously.

---

I know, Imagen 8 cores besting 4 cores, Rock on AMD:rolleyes

When did someone say "Omg nehalem 8threads crush all Core2 nd AMD can say goodbye! :D :D :D!"

Do you honestly believe thread count matters when we are comparing cpus? Should it not be quad vs quad or do you think it should be quad vs dual quad? Do you really think that Intel have made the first native octocore cpu lol.

Just seen that you were being sarcastic, All to sad that people are actually using this argument though lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hornet331

they are already there...

btw. JC, Bosch makes a good suggestion can you run Winrar on bloomfield and gainestown?

would be cool. :up:

---

Sure, why not ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Periander6

Are people brain damaged here? AMD fanboys comparing a hyperthreading CPU vs. a non-hyperthreading CPU on a PER THREAD basis?!?!?!?

:rofl: :ROTF:

Comparing 2s vs. uniprocessor systems???

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

No, really. This crap is too funny.

---

Need a complete brain scan I think.
Most people are kindly trying to explain, but some guys just won't listen ...
We don't blame being a Fanboy ... But need to back it up for what being said/done ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gallag

I know, Imagen 8 cores besting 4 cores, Rock on AMD :rolleyes:

Do you honestly believe thread count matters when we are comparing cpus? Should it not be quad vs quad or do you think it should be quad vs dual quad? Do you really think that Intel have made the first native octocore cpu lol.

Just seen that you were being sarcastic, All to sad that people are actually using this argument though lol

---

Good point :up:

I think we can all agree that we want to see more of JCs wallpapers :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kingcarcas

I think we can all agree that we want to see more of JCs wallpapers :up:

---

geees, because of all the examination of the scores and tech specs i didn't even notice his wallpapers.
now i feel appalled :D:p:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JCornell

Need a complete brain scan I think.
Most people are kindly trying to explain, but some guys just won't listen ...
We don't blame being a Fanboy ... But need to back it up for what being said/done ...

Good point :up:

---

Please, where are those scores from WinRAR and etc..?

How about a nuclearus run on nehalem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JCornell

Need a complete brain scan I think.
Most people are kindly trying to explain, but some guys just won't listen ...
We don't blame being a Fanboy ... But need to back it up for what being said/done ...

---

Ok lets sum it up.

I saw your benchmarks and decided I wanted to se how my system did in the same benches. I decided to post the results thinking that probably it might be of interest to other people here. To make it easier for everyone to see, I posted the pics in succesion so that it would be easier to see the different results. As most of my posting is done in the AMD section my benchmark posts in this thread obviously is very offending to some of you. I can find a total of three people (i think) who shows any interest in the numbers themselves, most of the other posters is ridiculing me for comparing the two systems:shrug:

I'll grant you that some of it is my fault since I take the bait and is partly responsible for the thread derailing into core/cpu/thread/logical/virtual whatever. I apologize for this.

My intentions were to compare the systems no matter what amount of cores and ht threads.

The comparison apparantly is invalid because of different amount of cores. Guys why are you picking on this? I never stated in the benchmark post that ht threads were the same as cores, I mentioned in other posts that the os shows threads, and that I was interested in the numbers of nehalem including ht.

My benchmark posts were never intended like a showdown of any kind.

As most people here obviously is more into playing cool, ridiculing than showing any interest for the actual numbers, comparing future nehalem to todays dual socket setup. I don't see this place as a forum I want to be associated with anymore.

Too much crap in this forum kills the joy of being an enthusiast. The moderators reluctance to do anything about it is proof enough to me that they feel it is allright that the forum goes this way.

I apologize also to shintai, donnie27 and jcornell for any harsh words I have written. I do not usually engage in discussions like that.

Peace out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LIKMARK

Ok lets sum it up.

I saw your benchmarks and decided I wanted to se how my system did in the same benches. I decided to post the results thinking that probably it might be of interest to other people here. To make it easier for everyone to see, I posted the pics in succesion so that it would be easier to see the different results. As most of my posting is done in the AMD section my benchmark posts in this thread obviously is very offending to some of you. I can find a total of three people (i think) who shows any interest in the numbers themselves, most of the other posters is ridiculing me for comparing the two systems:shrug:

I'll grant you that some of it is my fault since I take the bait and is partly responsible for the thread derailing into core/cpu/thread/logical/virtual whatever. I apologize for this.

My intentions were to compare the systems no matter what amount of cores and ht threads.

The comparison apparantly is invalid because of different amount of cores. Guys why are you picking on this? I never stated in the benchmark post that ht threads were the same as cores, I mentioned in other posts that the os shows threads, and that I was interested in the numbers of nehalem including ht.

My benchmark posts were never intended like a showdown of any kind.

As most people here obviously is more into playing cool, ridiculing than showing any interest for the actual numbers, comparing future nehalem to todays dual socket setup. I don't see this place as a forum I want to be associated with anymore.

Too much crap in this forum kills the joy of being an enthusiast. The moderators reluctance to do anything about it is proof enough to me that they feel it is allright that the forum goes this way.

I apologize also to shintai, donnie27 and jcornell for any harsh words I have written. I do not usually engage in discussions like that.

Peace out.

---

I'll follow you out. This is a good place for Intel lovers but the rest of us clearly don't belong...

The only way the comparison would be valid from a COMPETITION point of view would be if the Opteron was a single 8core CPU.. or perhaps even 6 Core.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LIKMARK

Ok lets sum it up.

I saw your benchmarks and decided I wanted to se how my system did in the same benches. I decided to post the results thinking that probably it might be of interest to other people here. To make it easier for everyone to see, I posted the pics in succesion so that it would be easier to see the different results. As most of my posting is done in the AMD section my benchmark posts in this thread obviously is very offending to some of you. I can find a total of three people (i think) who shows any interest in the numbers themselves, most of the other posters is ridiculing me for comparing the two systems:shrug:

I'll grant you that some of it is my fault since I take the bait and is partly responsible for the thread derailing into core/cpu/thread/logical/virtual whatever. I apologize for this.

My intentions were to compare the systems no matter what amount of cores and ht threads.

The comparison apparantly is invalid because of different amount of cores. Guys why are you picking on this? I never stated in the benchmark post that ht threads were the same as cores, I mentioned in other posts that the os shows threads, and that I was interested in the numbers of nehalem including ht.

My benchmark posts were never intended like a showdown of any kind.

As most people here obviously is more into playing cool, ridiculing than showing any interest for the actual numbers, comparing future nehalem to todays dual socket setup. I don't see this place as a forum I want to be associated with anymore.

Too much crap in this forum kills the joy of being an enthusiast. The moderators reluctance to do anything about it is proof enough to me that they feel it is allright that the forum goes this way.

I apologize also to shintai, donnie27 and jcornell for any harsh words I have written. I do not usually engage in discussions like that.

Peace out.

---

Same here, I'm sorry if I came off in a negative way on in poor tastes to ya'! Did you see my post about the numbers to the other poster? He presented it in a different way and there wasn't any fights are flames to it.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=910

See my reply? Did I flame him?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mAJORD

The only way the comparison would be valid from a COMPETITION point of view would be if the Opteron was a single 8core CPU.. or perhaps even 6 Core.

---

To get a full set of numbers, run;
Intel vs AMD in that order.
One core on each,
4 cores on each with HT disabled,
4 cores plus HT vs 4 cores,
4 cores plus HT vs 8 cores as he's saying,
8 cores with HT disabled vs 8 cores,
And finally 8 Cores vs. 8 Cores with HT enabled.

Picking just one of these and not accounting for the others can be seen as cheating? Many here are geek enough to want to see the numbers, I do mean all of the numbers. Most will criticize partial numbers most of the time. If you want to know what 8 cores vs 4 Cores + 4 Virtual cores then also ask about the rest, right? Taking any ONE of these out of context will draw criticisms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

To get a full set of numbers, run;
Intel vs AMD in that order.
One core on each,
4 cores on each with HT disabled,
4 cores plus HT vs 4 cores,
4 cores plus HT vs 8 cores as he's saying,
8 cores with HT disabled vs 8 cores,
And finally 8 Cores vs. 8 Cores with HT enabled.

Picking just one of these and not accounting for the others can be seen as cheating? Many here are geek enough to want to see the numbers, I do mean all of the numbers.

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Wouldn't everyone be interested in those numbers? :D All of those charted out neatly would be awesome!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bowman

Wouldn't everyone be interested in those numbers? :D All of those charted out neatly would be awesome!

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IMHO, he wasn't being jumped for just the numbers. I've been here long enough that if a link was given to a site doing this, the hits would pile up quickly. Most folks here are Geeks, not AMD or Intel Fanboys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bowman

Wouldn't everyone be interested in those numbers? :D All of those charted out neatly would be awesome!

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That would be awesome. 4 core Nehalem vs 4 core Shanghai. HT disabled, which may be interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

IMHO, he wasn't being jumped for just the numbers. I've been here long enough that if a link was given to a site doing this, the hits would pile up quickly. Most folks here are Geeks, not AMD or Intel Fanboys.

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Donnie, no offense, but where do you fit in. Or is your presence needed to right the injustice of people liking a product that may be inferior. :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunge100

Donnie, no offense, but where do you fit in. Or is your presence needed to right the injustice of people liking a product that may be inferior. :rofl:

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It is a forum, you know, where we all meet and talk about Geek stuff? Simple, I come down on the side saying don't take stuff out of context. So you tell me, what's wrong with the list I made?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunge100

That would be awesome. 4 core Nehalem vs 4 core Shanghai. HT disabled, which may be interesting.

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Interesting on an academic level perhaps, but I'm more interested in real world performance. :up:

soo..

I guess Ill search elsewhere for information on these cpu's. Tired after reading through the first 10-12 pages of flaming in here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Epsilon84

Interesting on an academic level perhaps, but I'm more interested in real world performance. :up:

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Aren't we all? But in the grand scheme of things, Let make that at 3 way shoot out? Make it Penryn based Xeons vs Nehalem vs Barcelona then go right down the list as I proposed? I think the hits would be off the charts?:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryanmartini

soo..

I guess Ill search elsewhere for information on these cpu's. Tired after reading through the first 10-12 pages of flaming in here.

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As they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. :ROTF:

Theres plenty of useful info in this thread, you just have to sort through the BS. :down:

Dude, you guys should be thankful JC is showing us what he is.

Trust me, a lot of people are still being forced to keep quiet. :\


And yes comparing a 2 cpu system with a unisystem is funny, and you dont know how noob you sounded to make this comment.

I'd like to see more benchmarks please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Aren't we all? But in the grand scheme of things, Let make that at 3 way shoot out? Make it Penryn based Xeons vs Nehalem vs Barcelona then go right down the list as I proposed? I think the hits would be off the charts?:up:

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hehe i bet everyone would like to see that, and if you would add deneb benches to, the site would melt down. :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

hehe i bet everyone would like to see that, and if you would add deneb benches to, the site would melt down. :p:

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an 8 core deneb, an 8 core Nehalem and a 8 core harpertown..
The site would stall from all the traffic and FUGGER is out of town..:rofl:

you forgot 8 core barcelona. :D

the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny. :rofl:

I want something like this for nehalem
http://www.asus.com/prog_content/mid...spx?model=2090

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RFC Rudel

I want something like this for nehalem
http://www.asus.com/prog_content/mid...spx?model=2090

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Agreed, and that Asus board is a decent one..Couple guys on WCG have it.
Only complaint I have with that board is that it should have had 8 dimm slots.. 6 is just dumb

I can happily live with 3 dimm slots.

PS: the link does not work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

Agreed, and that Asus board is a decent one..Couple guys on WCG have it.
Only complaint I have with that board is that it should have had 8 dimm slots.. 6 is just dumb

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Why eight slots for three channels? It wouldn't divide out evenly... :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotF Bane

Why eight slots for three channels? It wouldn't divide out evenly... :confused:

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He means for quad-channel Harpertown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

FUGGER is out of town..:rofl:

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Out of country you mean ... :D

Sorry, WinRAR bench doesn't work on Nehalem :shrug:
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g.../winrar_mt.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...ous/winrar.jpg

...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kingcarcas

I think we can all agree that we want to see more of JCs wallpapers :up:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by RaZz!

geees, because of all the examination of the scores and tech specs i didn't even notice his wallpapers.
now i feel appalled :D:p:

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This happens all the time if I posted some bench. My kind of habit that has been known by some others forum :rofl:

hehe 300/500 kb/s.. even a singelcore 1,4ghz pentium 3 pulles more. :P:

@ JC

is it a bios / board issue?


http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6376/nehaui7.jpg

Man, i dont believe the attitude of most people here. Yes even you Movieman, wich i find to be so reasonable elsewhere.
If the nehalem system had beaten the barcelonas the tone would be a whole lot different....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

hehe i bet everyone would like to see that, and if you would add deneb benches to, the site would melt down. :p:

---

Yepp!:yepp:

Thanks for all the benches and information JC - just a suggestion though....you are using a VERY old version of winrar...try downloading latest version? www.rarlabs.com - that may fix the benchmark issue. Thanks again!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chri$ch

@ JC
is it a bios / board issue?

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Don't know ... If so other bencher is normal, then I should try the latest winRAR ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlterBridge86

Thanks for all the benches and information JC - just a suggestion though....you are using a VERY old version of winrar...try downloading latest version? www.rarlabs.com - that may fix the benchmark issue. Thanks again!

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Ok, THX

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

Man, i dont believe the attitude of most people here. Yes even you Movieman, wich i find to be so reasonable elsewhere.
If the nehalem system had beaten the barcelonas the tone would be a whole lot different....

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Another "Numbers" guy ? :welcome:

Would it be possible at 45nm for amd to mcm k10? That might compete well with nehalem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

Man, i dont believe the attitude of most people here. Yes even you Movieman, wich i find to be so reasonable elsewhere.
If the nehalem system had beaten the barcelonas the tone would be a whole lot different....

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Are you talking about the dual Barcelona quad vs single Nehalem quad? :confused:

If I have understood it all correctly, then the tone was because of a flawed comparisson.


Anyways, I am very happy that JC gives this insight into Nehalem. Very much appreciated, thank you JC :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by foch3 -USA-

Would it be possible at 45nm for amd to mcm k10? That might compete well with nehalem.

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Perhaps it is possible, but I think it very unlikely. It would be better for them to make a duplicate of SMT / HT. Cross licensing should make it easy, and I wonder why they don't do this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by foch3 -USA-

Would it be possible at 45nm for amd to mcm k10? That might compete well with nehalem.

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Last news I heard that's exactly what AMD is going to do for 8 Core Processors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Last news I heard that's exactly what AMD is going to do for 8 Core Processors.

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Not only for Montreal(8C) but also for Magny Cours (12C,MCM of Sao Paolo which is monolithic 6 core K10.5)

They're going to MCM quads, and do a native six-core die which they will also MCM for 12-core CPUs. (hence the 'limo socket' DailyTech showed schematics of)