AMD Istanbul chip die picture

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05-12-2008, 03:01 AM
Nedjo

AMD Istanbul chip die picture

Famous Hans De Vries (www.chip-architect.com) has posted picture of AMD's new Istanbul core over the Aceshardware forum (www.aceshardware.com)

Here's what Hans has to say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans De Vries

"It's probably not a bad idea for AMD to take advantage of their relatively
small core size. At 45nm it can cram two cores (with 256 kB L1 total) into
30mm2. A single Nehalem core with 256 kB L2 also occupies ~30 mm2.

So in terms of IPC/mm2 you get two cores against one core with 2 threads."

http://www.chip-architect.com/news/A...e_Istanbul.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans De Vries

"The 8 core Nehalem seems to be a megamacholomaniamonolitic die.
larger still as Dunnington (700 mm2 ?) More for bragging rights
purpose as for profitability, considering that it will be rather TDP limited.

Istanbul could be at or just below 300 mm2. Istanbul/Sao Paulo should
become a mass market 32nm device so it's not a bad idea in terms of
risk reduction to develop them as server/workstation chips at 45nm."

I completely agree with Hans on this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans De Vries

"It is better to add cores, to 6 in total, as to extend the L2 caches from
512kB to 1MB per core on a 4-core device as was planned with Montreal."
05-12-2008, 03:09 AM
Macadamia

What's actually shocking is the bad L2 density/design overhead.

Total L2 here would already = "3" cores.
05-12-2008, 03:16 AM
fellix_bg

Rounding up the L3 to 8MB would be nice, too. ;)

Quote:

What's actually shocking is the bad L2 density/design overhead.

The L2 cell density in Shanghai is on par with the Nehalem's one.
The odd thing here is that AMD is reusing that L2 design for the L3 cells, while Intel will be using brand new denser L3 cells for Nehalem (~50%).
05-12-2008, 03:23 AM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by fellix_bg

Rounding up the L3 to 8MB would be nice, too. ;)

The L2 cell density in Shanghai is on par with the Nehalem's one.
The odd thing here is that AMD is reusing that L2 design for the L3 cells, while Intel will be using brand new denser L3 cells for Nehalem (~50%).

if you take in to account fact that Barcelona is 283mm^2, and that Istanbul is 297mm^2,it's obvious that's important for AMD to keep die under 300mm^2. With that in mind I would expect more cores and more cache with 32nm tech.
05-12-2008, 03:32 AM
Macadamia

Istanbul should be okay @300mm^2. It doesn't need particularly high clocks either, even when compared to Dunnington's top bin.

Isn't it shown that L2's impact is minimal and size increase is a diminishing return? They need to make L2 faster not bigger. By then, they could use the same tactic as Nehalem, and just have 256 per core.

Maxing out at 2.4Ghz, 115W?
05-12-2008, 03:35 AM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

What's actually shocking is the bad L2 density/design overhead.

Total L2 here would already = "3" cores.

historically speaking AMD's Transistors are slightly larger than Intel's for any given process (which is both a good and a bad thing) So their SRAM cells being larger isn't a surprise to anyone.
05-12-2008, 03:43 AM
4X_FTL

Has no one realized that "picture" is an artistic impression? Hans merely photochopped a Shanghai to have 6 cores...the layout and cache sizes are purely how he sees it playing out. Zero reality here for all we know.
05-12-2008, 05:40 AM
865pe

AMD comming back..
05-12-2008, 05:50 AM
Richard Dower

AMD don't have the R&D or capital investment to "come back" now, Intel have won.
05-12-2008, 06:26 AM
Piotrsama

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X_FTL

Has no one realized that "picture" is an artistic impression? Hans merely photochopped a Shanghai to have 6 cores...the layout and cache sizes are purely how he sees it playing out. Zero reality here for all we know.

I was going to ask about that, thanks for clarification.
It's "ARTIST IMPRESSION", then.
05-12-2008, 06:57 AM
DFI pit bull

Quote:

Originally Posted by 865pe

AMD comming back..

Yes I hope so.
05-12-2008, 07:32 AM
Nuker_

Quote:

Originally Posted by 865pe

AMD comming back..

Yes indeed, and this time it's intel that will end up in the intensive care unit! :D:rolleyes:
05-12-2008, 07:36 AM
thenrz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dower

AMD don't have the R&D or capital investment to "come back" now, Intel have won.

Now, now :rolleyes:

I'll take 4! Honestly, looks good to me, 'artist impression' or not.
05-12-2008, 08:28 AM
MAS

this is instanbul chip photo

that means the first parts are ready...
05-12-2008, 08:31 AM
gallardo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

Here's what Hans has to say:

Quote:

It's probably not a bad idea for AMD to take advantage of their relatively
small core size. At 45nm it can cram two cores (with 256 kB L1 total) into
30mm2. A single Nehalem core with 256 kB L2 also occupies ~30 mm2.

So in terms of IPC/mm2 you get two cores against one core with 2 threads.

Yeah... if only there would be an aircooler capable of keeping a 700 mm2 AMD chip from overheating. :rolleyes:

And they probably need to do 2 real cores against 2 of Nehalem's threads to keep up anyway... :shrug:
05-12-2008, 08:37 AM
MAS

anyway, two cores of K10.5 will be faster than 1 Nehalem core with HT :)

thus six-core K10.5 will be competitive enough with quad-core nehalem with HT
05-12-2008, 09:12 AM
shiznit93

Quote:

Originally Posted by 865pe

AMD comming back..

AMD will never be back, the war is over. AMD is a budget cpu manufacturer like they were before the Athlon days, except now they are losing half a billion dollars a quarter.
05-12-2008, 09:28 AM
thephenom

Design wise, I'm sure AMD can keep going, but money is definitely a factor. Now just have to wait for some private equity fund from China or Middle East to fund the company, and then we'll see US gov't intervene and find US private investors for AMD.

Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I hope it happens.
05-12-2008, 09:30 AM
m^2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

I completely agree with Hans on this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans De Vries

"It is better to add cores, to 6 in total, as to extend the L2 caches from
512kB to 1MB per core on a 4-core device as was planned with Montreal."

Seeing how slow my Firefox is, I don't. Single threaded performance is more important IMO.
05-12-2008, 09:34 AM
azza21

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit93

AMD will never be back, the war is over. AMD is a budget cpu manufacturer like they were before the Athlon days, except now they are losing half a billion dollars a quarter.

Damn, why the hatred towards AMD have they bothered you that much that you have to be so negative about them :D

I hope things take a turn for the good in the case of AMD a little competition is never a bad thing.
05-12-2008, 10:07 AM
Jimmer411

For a second I seen 5 cores and had a WTF moment lol.

This xmas season will be an interesting one for sure
05-12-2008, 10:16 AM
RedBull78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmer411

For a second I seen 5 cores and had a WTF moment lol.

This xmas season will be an interesting one for sure

I see 5 cores as well. I doubt the 0 core will be working as 0 has no value. (kidding)

BTW , this is how I see AMD going down the tubes in the near future.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11758

And guess who the former CEO was for Nextel?
05-12-2008, 10:20 AM
Spawne32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAS

this is instanbul chip photo

that means the first parts are ready...

ARTIST RENDER.:rolleyes:
05-12-2008, 10:49 AM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spawne32

ARTIST RENDER.:rolleyes:

Whoever is familiar with Mr. De Vries work knows how insightful he is when it comes to new, yet to be released CPU's. This is "artistic impression", but it's not a drawing of some kid, but the man who really knows why he has drawn this picture in the way he did. This is the most logical way that Istanbul die can look.
05-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by m^2

Seeing how slow my Firefox is, I don't. Single threaded performance is more important IMO.

dude this is server CPU!

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