Laing DDC (Swiftech MCP350/355) Names & Info

Since the DDC pump has become so popular and now is generaly always recomended over the D5 and 50Z(wich also are very good pumps), that is with the modifed tops of course, ive decided to collect all info about the pump in one thread.
DDC is known to be more silent than both D5 and 50Z while it outperform them both!
The pump is known under different names and there may be a little confusion out there since there also is a couple of different version of the pump. Ive collected the names beneath... There is also a 11W version but its the 10w\18w wich is normal and being sold now so i consentrated about them:

There is now a new revision out wich has a blue impeller with a bit smaller hole in it. The layout of the pump semes to be the same for both ddc1 and ddc2 so both can potensially be changed to the other. Read more Here(german)

Different 10w names(with and without tops): ddc-1, mcp350, ddc pro,
Different 18w names(with and without tops): ddc-2, mcp355, ddc ultra, ddc+, ddc 1t-pluss

The pro and ultra is actually alphacool names and describes the 10w and 18w with their top

How to spot the difference between 10w and 18w:
10w got a black impeller and 18w got an orange impeller
There is also some holes in the impeller of the 18w but if you spotted those youve already noticed the orange color of it ;)

Aslo added some places to buy this pump, there is ofcourse alot more but here is some atleast

Warning! There seemes to be som fake ddcs going around!
Read more here!

Where to buy:
www.petrastechshop.com
www.dangerdenstore.com
www.alphacool.de
www.jab-tech.com
store.over-clock.com


And this pump doesnt show its real beast without a modded top. the top is what really makes this pump
and you can read some of this tests to see why and how well it performs

Tests:
Petras test of Petra\Alphacool\Radiical tops, also including 50z
H2Okoelings test of standard\alphacool\water tank top(danish)
Systemcoolings test of 10W

The Alphacool\watercool tops can even be modified a bit for a little more performance, its just about enlarging the inlet hole as is a little small
original. Just remember not to over do it as bigger aint always better :)
Here is a few links to people here @ xs who modified theirs:
Nickhsub1
Andersson.j
Trice

Here ive listed every top wich is avaliable, except from the originale of course

Different tops:
Petras top
Alphacool top
Alphacool Dual pump top
Alphacool water tank top
Watercool top (identical to Alphacool)
Watercool dual pump top
Watercool water tank top(identical to Alphacool?)
KP-xpcmods top
Radiical top
Home made top modification

There is also been some pumps with starting issues, you can discuss it more
Here

Any question about the pump; pm "rkorzuch" (manager Laing usa)
Or use this thread.

Made a little "compilation(man it was 205kB, had to tweak a little to get under 200kB)
At the top its Petras top then Alphacool dual top and Alpahcool water tank top. And on the bottom we got Voigts home made top next to Radiical top

*reserved*

This could be added to your "sticky".

The manager at Laing (USA) that I contacted through email said that if we have any questions that he would be glad to answer "PMs". His user name is....rkorzuch.

Things such as this is what makes Laing a quality product. :clap:

Stickied, now get to work :p:

& Guys, please keep this ON TOPIC. I won't hesitate to do some post cleaning if it gets out of hand.

Pictures of the different tops and maybe impeller colors would be helpful. Maybe everyone could take a picture of their pump, pump top, pump pcb, impeller and the sticker/printing on the side of the pump so we could establish some kind of database of different versions of the pump to determine which ones have issues?

Maybe some reference that Danger Dens 11w DDC is actually the same as the 18w DDCs?

A link to systemcoolings modification guide for top inlet?

A link to petras test of the different DDCtops? And maybe one to the test over at H2Okoeling.dk too?

Don't forget SystemCoolings test of the 10w DDC: http://systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp350-01.html

A few more tops:
Watercools top (similar to alphacools, tank mounting holes differ)
Watercools tank top
Watercools dual top
KP-xpcmods top
KP-xpcmods tanktop? (not sure about this one)

EDIT: See Thomas post below.

The PRO top from Alphacool and Watercool isn't identical, but almost.

The difference is the mouting wholes for the watertank and therefore you can't use a Alphacool tank on a Watercool PRO top and virsa versa.
/Thomas

FYI, Pro and Ultra are both names by Alphacool. The normal DDC is just DDC, the 18w version is the Plus.

Pro and Ultra are the 10w and 18w versions with Alphacool tops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andersson.j

Pictures of the different tops and maybe impeller colors would be helpful. Maybe everyone could take a picture of their pump, pump top, pump pcb, impeller and the sticker/printing on the side of the pump so we could establish some kind of database of different versions of the pump to determine which ones have issues?

Maybe some reference that Danger Dens 11w DDC is actually the same as the 18w DDCs?

A link to systemcoolings modification guide for top inlet?

A link to petras test of the different DDCtops? And maybe one to the test over at H2Okoeling.dk too?

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Like this?

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5...04largeir9.jpg

Heh, I like your ramsinks :p:

Better link for Radiical top...

http://www.radiical.com.au/products/RadiicalPumpTop.asp

eh i dunno if its correct but i read that there is a batch of bad DDCs out there?

anyway if its true anyone have a list of serial numbers to check out if u got a bad one?
as i a while ago bought a brand new one for half price and just wanna make shure its ok.

what PSU are you using if your ddc stalled on startup but after few thumps starts normally.... i currently have HEC 475w, running 24/7, if turned on/off i always check if the impeller is turning else i kill the power at once avoiding later complications with CPU and GPU...

If we photograph the PCB (or at least write down the numbers) maybe we can identify the faulty batch?

Here's a few pictures of my working DDC-1 and DDC-2:

DDC-1 PCB

Version: 5.7
Serial number?: A-00-075-062.

This DDC-1 worked fine for several months with the standard top but it rattles loudly so I don't use it anymore. I purchased a second DDC-1 to replace it which also works fine without any ratteling, but since it's mounted deep inside a shuttle at the moment I don't have the energy to photograph it.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2823/ddc1wv1.jpg

DDC-2 PCB

Version: 6.0
Serial number?: A-00-075-065

I''ve got two DDC-2 with this version and serial numbers and both of them have been working flawlessly for about a year now. I'm running them in series with modified alphacool tops at about 11V from my miniNG because over 11V they get loud because my loop isn't restrictive enough.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6786/ddc2zl8.jpg

DDC-2 Label

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5...c2labelyf4.jpg

DDC-1 Label

No picture of the DDC-1 label due to a mishap with some acetone. (Acetone is also useful for removing the ugly printing on tubing!) :)

DDC-1 & DDC-2 Impellers

Those magnets are pretty strong! A few millimeters closer and they smash together.


It's not only the color that separates them, the DDC-2 impeller's got some holes which the DDC-1 doesn't.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5249/ddcimpua0.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

And link to modifying the alphacool top?

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There' a few threads here on XS describing how to do it, but:

• My thread isn't perfect since I drilled a too large hole, and the tapering probably affects performance negativly.
• Nikhsub1 didn't take any pictures before he drilled.
• Trices thread doesn't have any pictures any more and I don't remember how good they were.

The perfect guide would include: lots of pictures, a description of how to drill in acrylic and a hole no bigger than the one in the impeller (~12mm). So if anyone is planing on modifying their alphacool top please write a nice guide too. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

*reserved*

@NickS: Daam that was fast!:eek: ok working on it...

@SiGfever: Cant find rkorzuch here yet?

@andersson.j: Yeah pictures would be great. maybe using this post for pictures?
i have collected som pictures. will post this later...

@Thomas FJ: Ah good to know, will get that in there too...

@Xavior: yeah knew that, but good point. can get that clearer in the text later....

@Nealh: Thanks

@andersson.j: Thanks again! i belive that the hole should not be any bigger than the id of the barb used. so if your using EK barbs the hole should be 10mm. Oh and ive been wondering how big the hole in the impeller was, now i know... 12mm

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Quote: 10-11-06

"John:

I have to apologize. I have been tied up on another project and I have not had much time to contribute to this forum. I should have some free time over the next couple of weeks and I will try and answer as many questions that I can. Thank you for the information and if you need anything from me please don't hesitate to ask.

Best Regards,

Rob Korzuch
Laing Thermotech, Inc."

eXa, nice sticky. If you need anything done that requires a mod to do it, just send me a PM. I will go update the Pumps thread now with a link to this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

Made a little "compilation(man it was 205kB, had to tweak a little to get under 200kB)
At the top its Petras top then Alphacool dual top and Alpahcool water tank top. And on the bottom we got Voigts home made top next to Radiical top

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You just had to use a photo of the prototype instead of the production version, didn't you? ;)

Anyway, I'm going to be meeting with people from Laing and Pumpstock next week (along with the pres. of Laing, apparently)... Anything in particular that you guys would like me to ask?

Looking to be a great sticky dude, awesome pix. Keep up the good work ;).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Petra

You just hadAnyway, I'm going to be meeting with people from Laing and Pumpstock next week (along with the pres. of Laing, apparently)... Anything in particular that you guys would like me to ask?

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I hope that you are meeting with them in hopes of improving performance of the overall package.

Possibly ask them if they could make molded tops with 1/2" fittings and top inlet. with a molded top you could get shapes that would be insanely costly to machine for alot less money.

and maybe ask what was causing the rash of failures. (although i dont expect them to comment on that while on record)

agreed with maxxx, the recent rash of ddc-2 failures is not helping their image much, unless of course there's such a thing as reconditioned ddc...

Okay, I met with several people from Pumpstock and Laing (including Scott Shimer, current president of Laing) for about an hour today... we talked about quite a few subject, ranging from technical stuff to the random quirks of the watercooling market. It was actually a very informative meeting for everyone involved. They'll be sending me some stuff that they've been working on and, hopefully, I'll be able to improve upon my current testing equipment so that I can provide them with more useful information than I already can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

I hope that you are meeting with them in hopes of improving performance of the overall package.

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While that wasn't really their original intent, that ended up being discussed... They're gonna do up a PQ curve for my DDC top (partly because the data would be useful to me and partly because they want to know exactly what they're up against). I'll let you know how that pans out when I can.

Quote:

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Possibly ask them if they could make molded tops with 1/2" fittings and top inlet. with a molded top you could get shapes that would be insanely costly to machine for alot less money.

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That was also discussed... The real issue is one of 'is it worth the cost to tool and produce this?' Now, the custom tops offer convenience, looks, and increased flow in lower restriction loops (~.5GPM over the stock DDC-2) but, in high restriction loops, the performance difference is less than 0.1GPM. Again, there will be some back-and-fourth here and we'll see how things pan out.

Quote:

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and maybe ask what was causing the rash of failures. (although i dont expect them to comment on that while on record)

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Interestingly, they said that they hadn't heard much of anything about it until recently, when a customer from Australia contacted them directly (as such, they paid to have the pump shipped to them for analysis). Also, according to them, Swiftech has only received a couple defective DDC-2's thus far.

From talking with them, it really does sound like they're rather in the dark... and, really, being on the forums, I can sympathize as I see a lot of complaining/speculation and very little useful information. There either needs to be a thread or I need to start compiling a list of all of the known DDC failures, the serial numbers of the units, production dates, place of purchase, and symptoms of failure. That way I can pass that information, and any defective pumps that I encounter, along to Scott (or one of the other guys I talked to today) so that they can assess the issue and figure out what's really going on.

It also seems to me that most of the defective pumps originated from Europe (after all, PPC's is likely getting their DDC pumps from Alphacool and Radiical (in AU) is also likely importing them from Laing's European division)... but that's just a guess, as I haven't seen enough solid information to make any real connection.

talked to someone at dangerden today (for a ddc-2 rma) and they where aware of the failures.

thanks for hte info alex. sounds like the meeting was delightfully productive.