http://www.hardspell.com/pic/article...0757cab671.jpg
http://www.hardspell.com/pic/article...274a6bad3b.jpg
Source: http://en.hardspell.com/doc/showcont.asp?news_id=3608
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2 cores?
From the link:Quote:
R700 has two RV770XT cores
Oh hello there.
Me want.
Oh and Hardspell.com is not the original source, that was Hexus.net but they have taken the article down (probably after AMD asked them to).
Something about the card though, it's apparently shorter than the R680, could someone confirm this?
omfg!!! cant wait for these babies to come out :D
4870x2?
yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by bugkalot
ya
ist gross
fastest videocard all over the world :)
but does it win when it comes to Enemy Territory: Quake Wars?Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
euhmm dude..that's a crappy game, who cares lol :DQuote:
Originally Posted by safan80
4870x2 :)
beating out a gtx 280? who knows?
4870 X2 is not like two 4870sQuote:
Originally Posted by safan80
4870 X2 is a virtually single-chip videocard => any game not supporing crossfire will run great on 4870 X2
hope your'e right,Quote:
any game not supporing crossfire will run great on 4870 X2
"immortals, we'll put their name to the test"
My predictions are 4870x2 and GTX 280 are gonna be identical in performance, but 4870x2 will cost 200$ less than GTX 280. However you won't get PhsyX and CUDA support.
4870 X2 is already 24 per cent fast in Vantage (X6000 vs. X4800)Quote:
Originally Posted by DelaMaris
by august GTX 280 price will be corrected
yeah cuda physx is a nice touch, Empire :Total War is supposed to have physx support...but plenty of time b4 ETW, like November.
dont suppose there's any chance of ati physx? :lol:
http://www.overclock3d.net/news.php?...ls_for_physx/1Quote:
The Big Lime Greens will surely be the first with PhysX on their graphic drivers, but we are sure ATI will follow soon enough. ATI does have a good position at the moment; they have now joined with Nvidia's PhysX and Intel's Havok, a WIN-WIN situation.
mmm, want badly. Wish they had MCM'd the cores though, would make cooling them a bit easier.
Well if their 4850 performs like this in ETQW , then I'll doubt well see any problems with their X2 card.Quote:
Originally Posted by safan80
pricing?
No it would not, then you would put all that warmth that is being emitted close together and you need to spread this heat anyway to dissipate it fast. It wont gain you anything for air, water, DICE nor LN2 cooling, now you can put 2 separate cooling blocks on each core.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler
My view, I don't care if ati is faster then nvidia, I still will never buy ati.
The only thing that truly matters is a price war, that's what I want to see...
Nvidia FTW:up:
Have you got any proof for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
To be it looks like it is going to have the same old 512MB VRAM limitation and will be just the same as having 2x 512MB 4870's on one card. (as was the case with the HD3870X2)
Then again I am an nVidia fanboy so would like to be educated as if this IS the case then the HD4870X2 is going to be kick arse :up:
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by disruptfam
Huh... nV's will have to lower the price for their 280 for sure ...Quote:
Originally Posted by hardspell.com
technically this IS mcming the chips.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler
MCM= multi chip module.
the module is the card.
and while it'd be easier it'd be less effective.
I am an nVidia Fanboy to, just I am tempted by these new red toys!
Oh the red looks very good at the moment.........
besides I have an X38 based motherboard, I am sure that Crossfire will be worthwhile investment with these new 4800 series cards (providing there is no dreaded microstutter or driver god issues).
John
What driver issues? I'm on an NVIDIA card and I don't consider NVIDIA's driver support very good. I have always had this idea that ATI has better drivers than NVIDIA, but I could always be wrong on that one. All I know from benches so far is that their CFX scales better than SLI.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
Well perhaps I am being a bit too harsh but basically in my uneducated opinion Crossfire and SLi are both flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
These technologies do not support every game out there and require you to pray to the driver gods for a driver which is good for SLi or a Catalyst that supports Crossfire in X-Game or Y-Game....even in some cases a game has to be PATCHED to support SLi/Crossfire.
And then.....we have the issues of st.st..st..stutter this is caused by frame buffer synching (or lack of) which can in some cases give lower minimum frame rates as the CPU is having to do extra work!
Rumours suggest that HD4800 series have somewhat sorted out the way Crossfire works (and yes the scaling is phenomenal) however you still have the same old "this game doesnt work with Crossfire issues"
IF it is true that the HD4870X2 is not Crossfire based and is true multiGPU then wow :clap:
John
well if it beats the GTX280 and doesn't have stuttering I might get one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
What about the Soft Particles?
So is there any confirmation as to whether the micro stuttering still exist with the 4000 series? Not talking about the X2 and I don't suspect we have any way of knowing that yet anyway.
2*RV770XT cores? I heard other things...
I'm literally drooling in anticipation :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan
Yes. 2 x RV770, according to ExtremeTech:Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
Quote:
First, there's the memory controller. Gone is the "ring bus" architecture of the 600-series GPUs. In its place is a new distributed controller design, with the memory interface spread out around the edges of the chip, and memory controllers spread throughout the die near the blocks of render back-ends. Comparatively low-volume traffic like PCI Express, display controllers, and inter-chip communication are handled by a centralized hub. Each memory controller block has its own L2 cache block. The net result is, according to ATI, better bandwidth utilization in less die space. Also new is support for GDDR5 memory, which will find its way to market first in the Radeon HD 4870. We previously wrote about the advantages of GDDR5.
This may be our first hint at what is new with the dual-chip "R700" product coming in a few months—these hubs may communicate between two RV770 chips in a fashion that is more efficient than in past multi-GPU boards.
Not really, it's crossfire-on-a-card.Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink
If it looked like one GPU to the end user and had shared memory, I'd call it MCM.
There are rumors going around that it will have just that but right now I'll just expect a 3870X2 repeat with new chips, and perhaps be pleasantly surprised if it's not. :)
ok, your so dead meat when I get my hands on your sources:ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
@Unbornchild: That it will be 2*RV770 is clear, but i heard it will be 2*RV770PRO and not 2*RV770XT.
@flopper: ???
So, does that mean: 2 times the HD4850 chip? I thought the naming scheme applied to the cards, not the chip (being the same anyway)?Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
I thought the chip itself was 770, only the 4850 card is 770Pro, the 4870 card is 770XT.
RV770 PRO = 625MHz, RV770 XT = 750MHz
And i think R700 will clk @625MHz because of the heat/power consumption.
But with GDDR5 memory isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
@bowman, then you will be surprise although we still have to wait for how surprise we will be. I don't think it will have shared memory, actually I'm quite sure it wont have that, but the communication between the 2 chips will be a dramatic departure from what we are used to from the R680. Don't quote me on that one, I don't have any sources like w0mbat has and these are just my guesses.:p:
Ah that's probably why AMD hasn't claimed to have a board that can do more than 2 TFLOPs, as 2 x RV770XT would bring you 2,4 TFLOPs.Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
Ahh..ok. But the difference is only the clockspeed, but the chips architecture are just the same?, or are they different too?Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
Yes, only clks, vcore and thus the tdp is different.
As people said, this is crossfire on one card. But nonetheless 4870x2 will be little faster than two 4870 in crossfire due to more efficient bandwidth between cards. So if HD4850 is matching performance with 260GTX, then HD4870 would be matching GTX280. This roughtly means if nVidia would not release something extra ordinary, HD4870x2 will be king by large margin and will turn nVidia high end video card into mainstream performance level.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
i wish these damn card makers would start pointing the power connector UP instead of out to the side or out on the end of the cards.
Of course not. "UP" on the card would mean down in the PC's case, very unconvenient to the power cable. Unless you mean: place it on the backside of the card.
idonno if u guys saw this or not, "While Radeon 3870X2 relys on the PLX chip to communicate between the GPUs, 4870X2 GPUs will communicate with each other through the memory. Since the GDDR5 is clocked at 1800, the total bandwidth will be roughly 160 GB/s at 1 Gigabyte through the 256bit-bus, compared to the 8 GB/s of the PLX chip of the HD3870x2. Also 4870x2 WILL NOT have micro stuttering." http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=285719
it was posted a while back on vrzone. the shader clock is fud but this part looks like its can be real. anyone wanna take a shot at it?
What I can do now is wait for the benchmarks in games and final pricing for this might switch to the red zone.
i'll take 2 please
yes reviews of 4850 CF's HAVE reported microstuddering. and even if this communicates through memory it still uses AFR so it will almost most certainly have microstuddering.Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptobs2000
stop hinting, just tell us:shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
That last picture looks like the card is smoking.
I don't think it will communicate through the memory, not until I'm proven wrong but I don't think that will happen. Not this generation at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650
One more thing, if the card is using AFR then that does not necessarily mean there will be micro-stuttering. The way AFR is done at the moment does cause this stuttering.
So...even Crossfired HD4870 cards have Microstutter?
Damn :(
Looks like I may have to stay in the green camp....
Of cause any normal CF will have microstuttering, but dont talk about it cause u wont notice it.
You mean: "stay in single card camp", as SLI/Crossfire both know microstutter. It is a multi-gpu issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
Hopefully resolved in the 4870X2, which no-one can know but only speculate atm.
Yer but upgrading from a G92 GTS only really gives me 2 choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbornchild
1) Crossfire 4870 1GB :up:
2) GTX 280 Zotac AMP!
3) S3 virge
John
Even HD4850 > G92GTS, so a HD4870 will blow it away.
Cool, but what about the S3 Virge? :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
I think the S3 Virge is your best bet then. It will blow all the competition out of the water, seriously :yepp:.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
BTW, even S3's multi GPU set-up, yes they also have their form of SLI, also has this micro-stuttering problem.
@w0mbat, "you won't notice it"? I don't have a multiGPU set-up but I can clearly see it here, as they demonstrate in their video.
@Helmore: Thats only if u get in the <30fps range.
I get bad stutter @ 1280x1024 in Crysis. many other games at low res have this problem too...try "strafing" sideways...you'll move in "bursts"...really annoying.
Hopefully drivers will not be buggy for it.
with 2 x HD4850 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
S3 Virge + 2 x Voodoo 2 in SLI... no contest. Just make sure you get a good PSU to handle that monster. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
nice thats a asus m32a32-mvp board!!Quote:
Originally Posted by fallwind
Isn't crossfire not even supported in Crysis? At least with the 4850, going from reviews. How would you even get micro stuttering in this case?Quote:
Originally Posted by cadavecaI get bad stutter @ 1280x1024 in Crysis. many other games at low res have this problem too...try "strafing" sideways...you'll move in "bursts"...really annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious
Hotfix has come out since reviews, as well as monthly driver.
Problem seems almost confined to 4:3 resolutions...1280x1024 and 1600x1200, but 1860x1050 is fine.
that's true they could almost eliminate it if they did it right. however to eliminate microstuddering you would have to sync the GPU perfectly and you would loss lots of your performance. thus Crossfire would not seem as attractive to most people and they would not buy it. but how many people know about microstuddering? only us Xtreme people. i am sure AMD is aware of the problem and can fix it they just don't want to on fear of losing sales of uneducated users. and the same goes for Nvidia. thus the only choice if you want smooth studder free play is the GTX 280.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Nice, might have to pick one up :)
Also, is that a black PCB is see, I thought ATI was usually went with red?...
Ok, S3 verge it is, what sort of PSU would I require to power such a card, would my Enermax Infiniti 720W be man enough for the job?Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Ahh wicked Voodoo 2's :up: 12MB models or 8MB variations of the card?Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
What sort of PSU would be required to run TWO of those monster VooDoo2 cards?
Do they suffer from this notorious microstutter?
Did anyone hear that the 4870 requires 2 (yes 2) PCI-E power connectors :(
John
Do you think that would still be the case if ATI offered their R700 as a true dual-GPU solution?Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650
:shrug:
Until GX200 comes out!Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
why is it dies are shrinking on CPUs and requiring less volts and less heat but GPUs are hot as heck (78c idle 4850) :mad:
kinda sad when a quad uses 200w and the GPU uses 600 watts LOL
@55nm...:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by initialised
Nice quote :)Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsleath
It comes out in August? Come on, step it up AMD :) If they release it on 25th they would definately be on top :)
Mind showing me a GPU that uses 600w?Quote:
Originally Posted by iboomalot
4850 is idling hot since the fan is only at 10% speed on a single slot cooling solution and powerplay doesn't seem to be in full effect.
The stock goop on the early 4850s is pretty bad. Replacing it will give at least a 10c difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
Perkam
my thoughts as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
there has been no evidence to support that it will stutter, and plenty of releases albeit unconfirmed saying it won't due to the design change. As it will render like a single gpu...
all i know till now is that CFX with 2 R700 showed 4 gpus, so i dont think we'll see that one 4870x2 will be handled as a singel gpu.Quote:
Originally Posted by villa1n
:yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
it's simple for me; whatever gives me maximum fps with 8xQ AA in Empire: Total War is what i'm buying.
4870x2 or gtx 55nm :shrug: if any driver probs, then no sale...and it's a long wait until my game is released :}
micro stuttering fixedQuote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Seems the new method of communicating between cores through memory, is supposed to keep the frames fed to the monitor at a proper rate.
Those are just rumours, villa1n. They are utterly unverified. And part of the information has already been shown to be false which seems to place some doubt on the rest. I certainly hope it is true. It would be revolutionary. but it seems almost too good to be true. I'm keeping my fingers crossed though.
as gojirasan said, its oldnews (or more like old rumor :p: ).Quote:
Originally Posted by villa1n
I believe it when i see it. :)
Uhhh.. I have no problem cooling my QX9650 at 5.5+GHz, I think I could handle some MCM'd RV770 cores. This way I'd only have to insulate around one die, only have to deal with 1 evap/pot, and in general simplify cooling the gpu. It'd be like another R600 :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Though I share in your suspicion when dealing with rumous about new advancements prior to actual launch, you do have to accept that at some point micro-stuttering will be completely gone, for both ATi and Nvidia. It's a big enough problem and I'm sure both are working on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
I would not be surprised if we hear the last of micro-stuttering before the end of 2008.
Perkam
lol wrong. It's two chips, and identical to the 3870x2 but with 2 rv770'sQuote:
Originally Posted by MAS
It's not identical. It's a substantially improved architechture.
Oh, you mean like the 480 SP's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sr7
Awww... you got to it first...Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
:rofl::ROTF:
I thought they were just going to use a better bridge chip? Didn't the one in the 3870X2 only support pci-e 1.0?
Theres still no conclusive evidence as to how the R770 cores will communicate to each other. I am sure however that AMD has managed to considerably improve how the cards communicate to each via either a faster PLX/PCI 2.0 bridge or a custom interconnect. I'd be pleasantly surprised if the cards do function as more than mere crossfire but I think this is somewhat unrealistic at this point in time. I have no doubts however that this card will be the fastest single pcb solution in supported games. If they scale efficiently across a large number of titles it will be a killer card. I just hope the memory limitations don't bite ATI in the butt down the road. I still feel that the GT200 architecture has more longevity to it ( Nvidia's design is more forward thinking but ATIs seems to prosper in current titles ). Time will tell.
the thoughts are the next:
AMD claimed it's top videocards will be all multi-gpu. But todays 3780 X2 and 9800GX2 have troubles in games => they cannot be recommended as universal card for gamer.
So I suppose AMD has already solved microsluttering problems for its top HD4000, 5000, etc series, otherwise there's no sense to sell 4870X2 since everyone can buy GTX280 and forget of any trouble
Indeed. For AMDs new approach of using multiple inexpensive dies to work, they will have to of remedied many of the short comings with current multi gpu configs, such as micro stuttering and inconsistent scaling/compatibility problems. They claim that after Nvidia sees their new approach on the 4870x2, that they will be making their concurrent offerings in a similar fashion. I do agree that this method is best for us as consumers ( as Nvidia's method of disabling hardware capabilities is somewhat lame ) and it should result in more affordable, yet still high performance, gpus. This would suggest to me that they have indeed designed a vastly improved bridge and hopefully this is the case. I would love to see unanimous scaling in games with these cards.
I'm still holding my breathe on this though but its what we should want to happen for the sake of progress and competition. For this all to go mainstream they will have to do more than plain old crossfire as its the only way this will be universally adopted and their high level of confidence sure seems to suggest this. Hopefully its not just PR hype. The current inconsistency of multi gpu sucks to put it bluntly so anything that improves this is welcomed. Sure multigpu usually will offer improved performance but its often quite small given the substantial increase in cost. What we need is a highly efficient method of scaling multiple cores and SLI/Crossfire isn't it. I won't touch a 4870x2 if its merely plain jane crossfire. For consistency's sake I'd more likely get a single GTX280 and be done with it. Hopefully AMD will prove us all wrong.
That's funny, coming from someone who doesn't have a clue. It was well known that they either had 480 sp's with a separate shader clock domain or 800 SPs. 800 was extremely unlikely (actually a bad design choice, but good for marketing terascale) and amazon showed the specs at 480 SPs, so I had a perfectly good reason to think that's what it was. By the way, performance in shader heavy games is not 2.5x... so something smells fishy there.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
That and maybe I've seen an R700 ;)
By the way, don't hesitate to keep your smart ass comments to yourself.
the 3870x2 isnt much slower compared to the 9800gx2, which is about as fast as the gtx280... so it seems very likely the 4870x2 will beat the gtx280 or at least offer the same perf... and it should be cheaper.
so while ati still wont win the performance crown as nvidia can do tripple gtx 280 sli which is like hecta 9800gx2 sli, but you can all see how the prices are falling down, thanks to ati beeing back on track after their r600 set-back
If Nvidia doesn't get Nehalem license their SLI is basically obsolete. So why spend :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of money on triple whatever from Nvidia.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Ya, because everyone *needs* a Nehalem based system :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by SimBy
Same here. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Chickenfeed