Confirmed: Feser 1 Blue Premix + GTZ = do NOT want

[millertime359]

Great post. I think that sums this whole thread up.

I think that post should be stickied too. There is great info in there

[Kozato]

Hi, recently I have encountered similar problems to the thread starter.

I am running the following items in my loop:

Swiftech Apogee GTZ
DangerDen 4870x2 waterblock
Laing D5
Swiftech MCR320
Feser One Coolant - UV RED

Over a time span of running this setup for 3 mths, I noticed that my cpu temps are getting worse and worse. But gpu temps still remains the same.

I am looking at 5 deg increase for idle temps and over 10 deg increase for load temps. The GTZ is definitely trapping some gunk from the coolant.

[wez3570]

Hi, recently I have encountered similar problems to the thread starter.

I am running the following items in my loop:

Swiftech Apogee GTZ
DangerDen 4870x2 waterblock
Laing D5
Swiftech MCR320
Feser One Coolant - UV RED

Over a time span of running this setup for 3 mths, I noticed that my cpu temps are getting worse and worse. But gpu temps still remains the same.

I am looking at 5 deg increase for idle temps and over 10 deg increase for load temps. The GTZ is definitely trapping some gunk from the coolant.

I think a trip to the store for some coke is in order

[Kozato]

I think a trip to the store for some coke is in order

Yes. I may need some ketchup for some scurbbing.

Since I am changing to coloured tubings, I guess it's time for to go for distilled + pt nuke.

[dreamaxx]

Heat causes chemical to leach from plastic

*snip*

Well done, 78%, Distinction.

Three gold stars!



PS... Wanna go breaking bad on their asses? !

[JoeChuo]

Woow! I gonna back to school!

[madmaxx]

i always said these type's of pre mixed were crap! and now i know why

[Waterlogged]

Guys, those studies LiQuidator has alluded to were for hard clear plastic like the types used for baby bottles & food storage. Here's an older article about the counter "argument", note the date.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...chemical_x.htm

[LiQuidator]

wow, what a post.

I hope I can get the system apart and cleaned out soon and find the problem but as it stands I am super busy, low on energy and gone all weekend :\

SNiiPE_DoGG glad the post helped you - I have found further resources that should help you and others. I am getting the information organized right now.

LiQuidator, that was one crazy and though out post . no wonder you have only have 7 posts haha. and it looks like you have a pretty strong background on chemistry.

Thank you WhiteFireDragon. I only have seven posts because it took an eternity for XS to activate my account. I think they do this so that when we finally do get to post - we make the most of it. Actually most of the data I obtained was from friends that I work with. Two of them used to work in the mining industry. Apparently heat has been used in the mining industry for years to help with the leaching process of ores. I will be providing further data to help others understand the processes involved. I missed out some important issues. I will post the data as soon as it is organized.

Great post. I think that sums this whole thread up.

I think that post should be stickied too. There is great info in there

Thank you millertime359. I missed some critical data in the original post that will be forthcoming.

Hi, recently I have encountered similar problems to the thread starter.

I am running the following items in my loop:

Swiftech Apogee GTZ
DangerDen 4870x2 waterblock
Laing D5
Swiftech MCR320
Feser One Coolant - UV RED

Over a time span of running this setup for 3 mths, I noticed that my cpu temps are getting worse and worse. But gpu temps still remains the same.

I am looking at 5 deg increase for idle temps and over 10 deg increase for load temps. The GTZ is definitely trapping some gunk from the coolant.

Kozato did or were you able to get temperature readings? CPU - GPU - System ? Both pre and post issue temperatures. This would be of benefit to us all. How high is your system overclocked? CPU - GPU - RAM? Do you run a 24/7 rig like SNiiPE DoGG under high stress?

Also what kind of tubing do you use in your loop. Is it the same tubing as SNiiPE DoGG's?

Other things to consider are sytem setup. RAD flushing etc. I will be posting some data soon hope that will help you. I have some important data on radiator flushing that should help you. Will post as soon as I can.

Well done, 78%, Distinction.

Three gold stars!



PS... Wanna go breaking bad on their asses? !

Hi dreamaxx Thanks for the Gold Stars. Although I did not get any from my two friends. Apparently I missed some critical data in the original post. So I will rectify that as soon as I can.

Don't go too hard on their asses though dreamaxx. Compassion goes a long way even for companies. Especially small ones. I can certainly feel the frustration and the pain though. But that is for another thread.

There is much much bigger booty out there that require our boot prints.

Woow! I gonna back to school!

I found all my resources on the internet. The internet has lower tuition fees as well. My friends pointed me in the proper direction. They made me do the rest by myself no less.

i always said these type's of pre mixed were crap! and now i know why

Sadly true. I have to admit that I am one of those guys that loves the bling. But at what cost? That is why I have to agree with NaeKuh about running a chemical free system.

Guys, those studies LiQuidator has alluded to were for hard clear plastic like the types used for baby bottles & food storage. Here's an older article about the counter "argument", note the date.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...chemical_x.htm

You missed the point Waterlogged The study being quoted was for the purpose of validating NaeKuh's original premise that heat played a critical effect in causing the damage to SNiiPE DoGG's System.

I do have some further data getting ready to be posted soon - that should help everyone better understand what did happen with SNiiPE DoGG's System. And possibly with Kozato's System as well.

It is impossible to discern what happened with Kozato's System at this time because he just simply has not provided enough data. Hopefully he will.

[Waterlogged]

You missed the point Waterlogged The study being quoted was for the purpose of validating NaeKuh's original premise that heat played a critical effect in causing the damage to SNiiPE DoGG's System.

I do have some further data getting ready to be posted soon - that should help everyone better understand what did happen with SNiiPE DoGG's System. And possibly with Kozato's System as well.

It is impossible to discern what happened with Kozato's System at this time because he just simply has not provided enough data. Hopefully he will.

Not at all. It just seems to me that your pointing in the wrong direction for your evidence. Your pointing at studies done on hard plastics when you should be looking for and pointing to soft plastic/rubber studies. From what little research I've done on it, the chemical bisphenol A doesn't even appear to be used in tubing formulations at all. I also believe it doesn't explain why SNiiPE's bottle of Fester went clear on him in the same loop....twice, but not the other loop. Personally, I'm not sure what exactly is the cause, as it's so rare..but I do know that if it were a chemical leech from heat, we would see a lot more of it than we have.

[LiQuidator]

Not at all. It just seems to me that your pointing in the wrong direction for your evidence. Your pointing at studies done on hard plastics when you should be looking for and pointing to soft plastic/rubber studies. From what little research I've done on it, the chemical bisphenol A doesn't even appear to be used in tubing formulations at all. I also believe it doesn't explain why SNiiPE's bottle of Fester went clear on him in the same loop....twice, but not the other loop. Personally, I'm not sure what exactly is the cause, as it's so rare..but I do know that if it were a chemical leech from heat, we would see a lot more of it than we have.

You will be happy to know Waterlogged that those studies are forth coming - I am in the process of organizing them to be posted.

I still had questions myself. But some of my friends have provided further details about the leeching processes used in the mining industry that can help us to understand leaching processes better. And the power of chemical contradiction as it is utilized within the mining industry.

What we really need however is testing. Not empirical testing but the type that is utilized by the mining industries and other major industries as well.

Thank you for your response Waterlogged!

[bluehaze]

Not at all. It just seems to me that your pointing in the wrong direction for your evidence. Your pointing at studies done on hard plastics when you should be looking for and pointing to soft plastic/rubber studies. From what little research I've done on it, the chemical bisphenol A doesn't even appear to be used in tubing formulations at all. I also believe it doesn't explain why SNiiPE's bottle of Fester went clear on him in the same loop....twice, but not the other loop. Personally, I'm not sure what exactly is the cause, as it's so rare..but I do know that if it were a chemical leech from heat, we would see a lot more of it than we have.

You seem to be missing the point. He's talking about chemical leaching in general, bisphenol A in the baby bottles leaching when heated is just an example of how leaching occurs. When considering the Primochill tubing has chemicals to prevent algae, corrosion etc bonded into thier tubing it is a very similiar situation and quite concievable that those chemicals are leached into the liquid flowing through the tubes.

It just seems like common sense to me regardless of what primochill says, if those chemicals were not realeased then they would have no way of preventing any type of corrosion algae etc as they would have no way of reacting with the liquid flowing through the tubes and it would be pointless to even manufacture the tubing with those chemicals in it in the first place.

[Waterlogged]

There is only one other person that I can think of off hand that has had a problem with colored fluid going clear, that would be SparkyJJO. IIRC, he only used masterkleer and dyes (every green dye he could get his hands on IIRC), some of them faded away to clear after a short while. As you can see, it's a completely different scenario than with SNiiPE. Everyone else I can think of, the color or UV effect only faded but the fluid did not go clear.

[bluehaze]

There is only one other person that I can think of off hand that has had a problem with colored fluid going clear, that would be SparkyJJO. IIRC, he only used masterkleer and dyes (every green dye he could get his hands on IIRC), some of them faded away to clear after a short while. As you can see, it's a completely different scenario than with SNiiPE. Everyone else I can think of, the color or UV effect only faded but the fluid did not go clear.

I've had similiar experience with Primochill dye bomb, that stuff ended up stuck to everything in my loop more so than the water it was supposed to be dying I will never ever ever use a dye bomb again after that experience

[Waterlogged]

Well, the thing with Sparky was, one of the dyes didn't leave any evidence that it was even in the loop, not a single block, pump or the rad.

[surfhick]

Thanks to both SNiiPE DoGG and LIQuidator. I'm waiting on parts for my first attempt a wc. Because of this thread there will be no additives in my coolant. Save for PT nuke. Instead I'm going to use (or overuse) anti kink coils to add coloring to my tubing. LEDs in the reservoir. I don't see the need for anything more than is necessary. Water.

[Navanod]

I've had similiar experience with Primochill dye bomb, that stuff ended up stuck to everything in my loop more so than the water it was supposed to be dying I will never ever ever use a dye bomb again after that experience

I think the bomb was supposed to be used in conjuction with PC ICE/PC PURE, not H2O...hence the soluability issue

[bluehaze]

Well, the thing with Sparky was, one of the dyes didn't leave any evidence that it was even in the loop, not a single block, pump or the rad.

LOL Must be magic then!

I think the bomb was supposed to be used in conjuction with PC ICE/PC PURE, not H2O...hence the soluability issue

It was used with Primochill pure fluid, but it was already sticking to everything and then to make matters worse I added like a dye bomb syringe worth of Feser UV black to try and make it darker and then all hell broke loose Had to flush loop like 3 times and disassemble everything and scrub and then finally like a week later add all new tubing and flush everything one more time and finally got rid of it all.

Was my own fault adding the Feser of course but I saw enough before adding it that I swore never to use dye bomb again!

[Kuntz]

Dude guys...

we talked about this a long time ago.

The general conclusions we came up with is that if your using an injector class block, PERIOD! do not USE DYES OR AFTERMARKET COOLANT.

We recorded a lot of data which was involved with things that used injectors. It seems that the pressure, impact, and turbulance causes the dye to deposit faster on your copper block.

Snipe your fesser green gpu loop is fine because u have nothing squeezing the dye though a high pressure injector.

Other guys who dont have problems, its mostly because you have head pressure, or your blocks arent causing enough injector and turbulance action.

But 99.999999999% of the time this happens, its on an injector class block.

This is why i ditched the colored coolant in favor of colored tubing and i run straight distilled with silver.

Wez was using:

Pure Distilled with 3 drops of PT nuke

And

Another thing I noticed...The liquid from the loop was poured into a jug. Once it had settled, there was tiny 'blue' particles at the bottom.

I've never used dye in my loops if you were thinking of asking!

This problem of deposits and random blue floaty things clearly has nothing to do with the coolant used in the system, nothing to do with dyes, and nothing to do with Feser products. Wez had the exact same thing happen to him with straight water and XSPC glossy black tubing.

We also can't blame heat because shazza is running a similiar system without any issue, let alone complete breakdown in 5 days:

This really is crazy. As I said before, my Feser One blue has been running in the CPU loop (GTZ + PA120.3) for several months. I've been crunching 24/7 on the machine since end of May - CPU core temps running around 55 degrees C. Can't understand why yours is going so quickly, unless it's just more restricted.

-It can't be pre-mix coolant
-It can't be dye
-It can't be the tubing
-It can't be heat

So what is left?

-Water Pressure
-Some sort of contamination (metal, bacteria?)

How do you guys attach your tube to the metal barbs or fittings? Lube? Boil the tips? When you boil the tips, what water are you boiling? Tap?

[PatRaceTin]

bad result

i am using distilled water

[millertime359]

I think the bomb was supposed to be used in conjuction with PC ICE/PC PURE, not H2O...hence the soluability issue

I used PC Ice with a different die with really bad results. It stained everything within hours.

Thanks to both SNiiPE DoGG and LIQuidator. I'm waiting on parts for my first attempt a wc. Because of this thread there will be no additives in my coolant. Save for PT nuke. Instead I'm going to use (or overuse) anti kink coils to add coloring to my tubing. LEDs in the reservoir. I don't see the need for anything more than is necessary. Water.

Get colored tubing like this

We also can't blame heat because shazza is running a similiar system without any issue, let alone complete breakdown in 5 days:

For S_D's case alone, it seems that a combination of a possible bad batch of coolant, the heat, the anti-microbiological coating on the tubing, and the GTZ block just caused the perfect storm and that is why his went downhill so bad so quick. He did use the same coolant as before when he refilled.

Any conformation on the bad batch of coolant yet S_D?

[Kuntz]

For S_D's case alone, it seems that a combination of a possible bad batch of coolant, the heat, the anti-microbiological coating on the tubing, and the GTZ block just caused the perfect storm and that is why his went downhill so bad so quick. He did use the same coolant as before when he refilled.

I don't believe it is a combination of things. That seems like the cop-out answer to go with. Wez is using XSPC tubing, which does not have anti-microbiological coating or agents. I doubt it's a bad batch of coolant because that would mean Wez needed to get a bad batch of straight water, and the same thing that went wrong with Snipers bad batch of blue coolant would have needed to go wrong with Wez's bad batch of water. It can't be heat because there are plenty of systems out there that run hot all the time, including that one fellow who said his system has run hot for 18 months with the Feser Blue with no issues at all! Lots of GTZ block users, only two seem to have this problem.

I don't think we'll ever get a clear answer on what is going wrong unless some samples are taken of the black gunk and blue floaty things, sent off to a lab for testing, and some professionals give an explanation as to what may be happening. If we can figure out exactly what is forming, then we can research what needs to take place for that to form. From there we could get an idea of what is actually taking place.

Sniipe/Wez: I'm not sure if you live close to a University, but you may be able to phone up the Science building, explain your problem, and maybe track down a Professor or Student willing to help you solve the mystery, either for free or a small fee. It's worth a shot, since theory-crafting and arguing will accomplish nothing but waste time.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

hehe, I live close to RPI, when I am in school I could try to talk to one of my older brothers who would have access and get some testing done...

[millertime359]

I don't believe it is a combination of things. That seems like the cop-out answer to go with. Wez is using XSPC tubing, which does not have anti-microbiological coating or agents. I doubt it's a bad batch of coolant because that would mean Wez needed to get a bad batch of straight water, and the same thing that went wrong with Snipers bad batch of blue coolant would have needed to go wrong with Wez's bad batch of water. It can't be heat because there are plenty of systems out there that run hot all the time, including that one fellow who said his system has run hot for 18 months with the Feser Blue with no issues at all! Lots of GTZ block users, only two seem to have this problem.

I don't think we'll ever get a clear answer on what is going wrong unless some samples are taken of the black gunk and blue floaty things, sent off to a lab for testing, and some professionals give an explanation as to what may be happening. If we can figure out exactly what is forming, then we can research what needs to take place for that to form. From there we could get an idea of what is actually taking place.

Sniipe/Wez: I'm not sure if you live close to a University, but you may be able to phone up the Science building, explain your problem, and maybe track down a Professor or Student willing to help you solve the mystery, either for free or a small fee. It's worth a shot, since theory-crafting and arguing will accomplish nothing but waste time.

As I said, for Snipe's case, seeing it happened within a week the second time, and a month (which is when he checked, could have been sooner). It is viable to think a bad batch of coolant could have helped the whole thing along.

As we have all said, for each person who had a problem, someone else with similar build hasn't. So it is viable to think multiple things have a play.

I do agree with you though. This is a speculation seeing no one has any solid data to back anything up and there are plenty of people who don't have a problem.

We need some concrete data to show how/why this is happening.

[M40TURBO]

Hope it's ok i post this here. Since you have had probs with GTX and feser liquid.. Just going to show how mine is compared to your's

I have opend my GTZ for the first time. Been running most off the day\night through out the weeks. Temps have ideling around 33-36c. Haven't played too mutch these past 7-8 moths it's been together. But futuremark 06 and crysis been runing a bit. Temps have been upp inn the 60's. Running feser uv blue.

Here's a pic on how the inside looked like. Bet i'll get itt off with a little brush and some water. If not i'll try the coke trick.