Lets talk breaking the HTT 230 limit on k10 here

[Tony]

Guys this subject deserves its own thread IMO, I have just got the DFI board here and already found the board has NB multiplier manipulation straight from bios, so we may already be sitting on the answer. Issue is the more people testing and posting the quicker will will get a positive outcome.

So post results and show how you tweaked the HTT up with Phenom here. I will point as many engineers here as i can so that we get this issue sorted as fast as we can.

[KeZzZu]

Sure, sadly my phenom 9500 & msi platinium arrives tomorrow and maybe my ballistix too :/ well testing it tomorrow.

[G-UNIT91]

Tony , in your opinion these Phenom without the famous bugs may exceed C2Q?

Beyond the problem of northbridge

[xVeinx]

Question: If the errata is involved with the L3, is it possible that AMD has put some sort of hard lock on the way in which the NB functions to prevent the errata from occurring? Can the "bios fix" prevent HTT speed changes? Sorry if this is a stupid question; if it is, I'll gladly delete .

[Tony]

Ok some fresh info for you:

K10 has totally independent clock control over CPU-NB and CPU core. In the DFI bios you will see the following under CPU features.

CPU DID
CPU FID

CPU DID = multiplier divider
CPU FID = actual multi in HEX

I mapped some common values out for CPU muti.
HEX Multi
00 = 08
01 = 08.5
02 = 09
03 = 09.5
04 = 10
05 = 10.5
06 = 11
07 = 11.5
08 = 12
09 = 12.5
0A = 13
0B = 13.5
0C = 14 ETC

Now we have a CPU DID also, this can be 1,2,4,8,16

things get good from 11 onwards using the 2 4 8 or 16 dividers and ODD ratio's

setting 06 FID and 2 DID will give 5.5, setting 01 FID and DID2 will give 8.25 so yes you can have quarter multipliers also.

Remember DID1 will give FID/1=FID with no adjustment...2 4 8 16 give the special ratio's

Moving to NB FID and DID

NB DID is either 1 or 2


Hex NB Multi
00 = 4
01 = 5
02 = 6
03 = 7
04 = 8
05 = 9
06 = 10
07 = 11
08 = 12
09 = 13
0A = 14
0B = 15
0C = 16
0D = 17 ETC

Again we can DID or divide by 1 or 2...so 07HEX with DID2 will give 5.5 for the NB Multi

So how does this translate, well remember HTT is 200 by default so 01HEX=5X
5X200HTT=1000MHZ
02HEX=6X so 6x200 for 1.2GHZ etc

CPU NB and Link Multipliers are unlocked on ALL CPU's, there are rules though.

HT link speed can NOT exceed NB clock speed, but HT link can be lower than NB core clock.

NB Clock is what decreases L3 cache latency and so improves performance.

Overall HTT speed is dependent on many things, NB core clock, HT link and CPU multi, different configs give differing results..we just need to reasrch the best for now.

[saaya]

your last post is quite confusing, especially the part about how to calculate the nb speed using the cpu multiplier and then dividers.
i think you should reword it and add some examples to make it easier to understand. its easier to follow if you just use a mulitplier and then divider, thats what everybody is used to from the k8/k9 imc/mem speeds.

[duploxxx]

lot's of info Tony, thx

altough i find it strange that the DID2 gives a quarter on a halve multiplier. but probably since the independant clock it doesn't matter anymore.

always fun to oc an AMD system.... missed that for a while.

since HTT speed has never been such a performance issue, how far can the NB clock go with low HTT? Isn't that the reason why they pulled higher clocked phenoms? because of issues in the L3

[Tony]

Originally Posted by saaya

your last post is quite confusing, especially the part about how to calculate the nb speed using the cpu multiplier and then dividers.
i think you should reword it and add some examples to make it easier to understand. its easier to follow if you just use a mulitplier and then divider, thats what everybody is used to from the k8/k9 imc/mem speeds.

its not confusing Saaya, its worded exactly right. I spent over 1hr getting it as simple as i can...NB speed is NB FID and NB DID...where did the CPU come into it?

Common to both NB clock and CPU clock is HTT of 200 or higher...this is the ONLY place NB core and CPU core speed could meet.

[BeardyMan]

Originally Posted by G-UNIT91

Tony , in your opinion these Phenom without the famous bugs may exceed C2Q?

Beyond the problem of northbridge

according to this (test done by Macci)Link
It's 300points better then Yorkfield at same clocks

[Tony]

Macci's results, let break them down.

NB core speed 2500MHZ, NB Multi 10X, HT speed 250MHZ

Bios values.

NB FID HEX 06 =10
NB DID 01

So HTT speed =250x10 for NB core clock of 2500MHZ

Moving to CPU core.

CPU core speed 3000MHZ, multi 12, HTT 250MHZ

CPU FID HEX 08 = 12
CPU DID 01 = 1 so NO change to CPU FID as 12/1=12

CPU core speed 250HTT x 12 for 3000MHZ

Moving to HT bus speed.Approx 2500MHZ

HT multi X HTT= HT speed
10 x 250HTT=2500MHZ

Options for HT multi:

200=1
400=2
600=3
800=4
1000=5
1200=6
1400=7
1600=8
1800=9
2000=10
2200=11
2400=12
2600=13



This is how you would have set bios up to hit the speeds shown in Macci's bench

[Tony]

So...what have we found upto now.

K10 has thrown a spanner in our K8 overclocking world...they are NOT the same!

To clock K10 HTT upwards you have to do the following.

1 Find the max NB core clock the CPU will run (this is the CPU NB)

2 Find the max core speed the CPU will run.

3 Set HT to be same or under CPU NB core clock speed.

If HT is higher than CPU NB clock the board will hang, if CPU NB core clock is to high the board will hang.

K10 was not designed to run massive HTT speeds, it was designed to be super efficient at lower HTT but with high CPU NB clock speed....so we all need the 9600BE (Black Edition) as this will have an unlocked CPU multi...so no need to push massive HTT, although upto 300 would be nice

[BeardyMan]

Originally Posted by Tony

So...what have we found upto now.

K10 has thrown a spanner in our K8 overclocking world...they are NOT the same!

To clock K10 HTT upwards you have to do the following.

1 Find the max NB core clock the CPU will run (this is the CPU NB)

2 Find the max core speed the CPU will run.

3 Set HT to be same or under CPU NB core clock speed.

If HT is higher than CPU NB clock the board will hang, if CPU NB core clock is to high the board will hang.

K10 was not designed to run massive HTT speeds, it was designed to be super efficient at lower HTT but with high CPU NB clock speed....so we all need the 9600BE (Black Edition) as this will have an unlocked CPU multi...so no need to push massive HTT, although upto 300 would be nice

So you think coldness won't effect much?

[Tony]

sure it will, but 1% of the 3% enthusiasts who use cold will see a gain...we need the air and watercoolers to see gains too

[Sparky]

So wait, do you mean that we really need unlocked multis to get much of an overclock out of these chips? And then considering that multis are usually locked, we could have a problem then...?

[Tony]

there will be an Black Edition soon, fully unlocked I hear

[BeardyMan]

Originally Posted by Tony

there will be an Black Edition soon, fully unlocked I hear

That's great new, we can expect soms cryoZ loving from you then?

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by Tony

there will be an Black Edition soon, fully unlocked I hear

Yeah I've heard that... but is that the only CPU worth getting then, the BE chips with the unlocked multis?

[Tony]

I would not say that, I would say its early days clocking K10 and we have a lot to learn. Everyone thought they clocked like K8 which they do not

[Brother Esau]

Whoa Damn brother you skills are way above mine after reading this thread I will guarantee no one understood a damn thing you just wrote


Thank God you have gotten this Board is all I can say!

[duploxxx]

Originally Posted by Brother Esau

Whoa Damn brother you skills are way above mine after reading this thread I will guarantee no one understood a damn thing you just wrote


Thank God you have gotten this Board is all I can say!

i think tony just tried to explain it for normal people.... i get the picture, got my MSI 790fx Platinum tomorrow... still have to decide if i wait for 9600BE or grab the 5000BE for a while, but then i miss all the fun for the moment

[Unoid]

So Ideally we want to crank NB clock high as possible.. at least always matching Core clock (for full L3 speed)

Why not benchmark a phenom at 2.5ghz for example with a 2.5ghz NB clock (x) with the y value being HTT Speeds? say vary from the base 200 and go up by 10 cycles or so.

Find out if theres a bottleneck at all. If not no sense trying to max htt to a certain speed.

[Brother Esau]

I doubt you would be normal if you understood the 3rd post down from the top of the thread Heres where Tony's Bios Modding skills come into play and the normal user most certainly will not quite get that and don't pretend as if you did either

Tell ya what though, seeing how me and Victor Wang are the only ones to posses this board prior to Tony getting one I am most definitely grateful that Tony has one of these DFI 790FX-M2R as he makes up for about 100 person user base all on his own . So now in actuality their are 102 people with this board now

[EnJoY]

Tony could mod a bios up once things mature more that could perhaps label these options in a more user friendly fashion? I remember you did the exact same things with your famous BT/BTA modded bioses for the DFI NF4.

[Brother Esau]

Whats up Alex Will you be getting on the Band Wagon too?


Yeah, Baby! Tony's Modded "Venus Bios" on the Expert Board was Tits and Ass took my board to its highest limit!!!!!!!

[EnJoY]

Originally Posted by Brother Esau

Whats up Alex Will you be getting on the Band Wagon too?


Yeah, Baby! Tony's Modded "Venus Bios" on the Expert Board was Tits and Ass took my board to its highest limit!!!!!!!

As soon as I am able too and the parts are available, I will be picking up a Phenom X4 BE and a DFI 790FX. Not as my primary platform, but to tweak and play with as I love tweaking AMD.