>R507

[epion2985]

I was wondering if there are any refrigerants better then R507 to run on a single stage. Lower boiling point is generally a better refrigerant for our purposes, but normaly the lower the boiling point is the harder it is to condense the refrigerant which I means you need a better condenser and more powerfull compressor. So is there a better refrigerant then R507 to use in a single stage setup with 1/3-1/2hp unit and a small computer case sized condenser?

[jinu117]

r402a I believe. Benefit is marginal though.

[the_new_guy]

isceon 89
and blends like
gas+r1150/r116( from an other thread)

[epion2985]

isceon 89
and blends like
gas+r1150/r116(from an other thread)

whats the boiling point of isceon 89?

what is the "gas" stand for in "gas+r1150/r116"?

[jinu117]

whats the boiling point of isceon 89?

what is the "gas" stand for in "gas+r1150/r116"?

Isceon 89 I don't think is practical single stage gas.
R116 with mixture is what BBmod is playing with... I think all of us are wondering what will come out with it.

[the_new_guy]

507/402a/404a + r1150/r116
/ is or

[epion2985]

507/402a/404a + r1150/r116
/ is or

heh, one of those combinations yeilds the lowest temperatures. Yet you mentioned alot of possible setups, does that mean there other benifits from mixtures with not so low of a boiling point?

[the_new_guy]

no its just what i have heard of people trying to blend

[pazza316]

I have Iceon 89 blended with R402a. The temps are at least 8 degrees better than with 507 (10 with tuning) and it also has around 20% more capacity than R507. 402a on its own is 3 degrees (at least) better and also offers more capacity.

Tha above quoted temps are fluke temps on a Vapo LS. With a larger higher capacity compressor the temps are evan better!!!

[n00b 0f l337]

r-116 looks promising so far may make dry icers almost obsolete.

[pazza316]

Indeed yes!. r-116 is what Chilly1 is using in my Auto cascade

[epion2985]

do you think R116 would do ok in a single stage 1/2hp loop with a large condenser? What preassures are we looking at at room temp to condence it?

[jinu117]

No. not by itself.
PT chart show around 200+ PSI for room temp and about 400 PSI for 58c or so which is probably what you can expect from compressor outlet. Know many compressor that likes over 400 PSI?

[epion2985]

indeed

By the way, what effects the capacity of a refrigerant?

[Unknown_road]

recommending r116/r1150 or other high pressure refrigerants for blending to somebody who doesn't have to much experience is a bit dangerous!

epion, if you can get isceon 89 get it, else r402a or else r507.

[epion2985]

Well I use others expirience. Myself I am a student of mechanical engineering. My fiances father is an HVAC engineer and I live with an electrical engineer right now as well, who is the director of R&D at (some big company name I cant remember). Between spending the nights with them over pages and pages of calculation and talking physics I am in pretty good hands. If I was stupid I would have made one 2 years or so ago when I came to these boards. And so far the only thing I have been doing is asking questions and taking notes and documenting my thoughts. Besides jumping at a window ac unit with a torch like some do here I dont consider expirience, just blind experimentation with no understanding of the physics behind the theory, which is as dangerous as it gets. Between the help of the two above and my love to calculate things first I dont think I am in any danger, ever was or ever will be.

Thanks for the advice on isceon 89


So, what effects the capacity of a refrigerant?

What do you guys think about R846 and R504? Anyone know the condensing pressure at room temperature?

[jinu117]

Time to look for chemical engineer or molecular physics engineer or even better... refrigerant engineers :P
I suggest buying refrigeration basic cd which includes all PT charts on just about all gas I know of. (maybe minus isceon 89 unless it is under different name there).
As far as my understanding goes, the mass of molecule impacts thermal capacity for our use (bit obvious as heat does need to get carried by something) as well as molecular structure which might impact how good it is at absorbing or removing heat...
I can tell you studying is really good thing. I must have studied nearly 2 year just following up threads here. And some examination booklets, refregiration training softwares, etc. But building my first unit actually got me about as much what I learned in book if not more knowledge and understanding. You could study how to make perfect golf shots but until you start swinging, you will never get good at it.
I suggest starting on something simple and small to learn if your budget is tight. Even some questions you are asking to be honest is plainly available all over nets or one of these books. Since you have access to library dig some books and learn through as you would like.

[epion2985]

books are nice. Right now my friend brouight me a killer bookf rom work for 1 night. Marks' Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers 8th edition. It has apart devoted to refrigeration and cryogenics. Good read.

I know some answers are avalible online, but sometimes I cant find them and sometimes its more efficient to ask because normaly the info isnt straight to the point so I have derive what i need from it and that takles time I dont have.

I am VERY greatfull for having people you you guys and my engineer friends that explain things to me. TEaching one self is one thing but having a teacher is sometimes much more effective.

I guess I will take a line in my post to thanks you all for your help. Its been a long time, lots of reading and will be more. Thanks guys.

Indeed. I need to find some sort of comprehencive database for refrigerants. Problems I have been having is that alot say different things. The chart I posted in abother thread turned out to be wrong as far as boiling point of r403a. Who knows what else is wrong in it. Aksing is nice because I get input from everyone who chances are isnt lying and speaking from the personal expirience.

its getting late, I have a test in am engineering class tomorrow. And a book to deicide weather I want to spend 100$ on

will post more of my anoying questions tomorrow

[gkiing]

books are nice. Right now my friend brouight me a killer bookf rom work for 1 night. Marks' Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers 8th edition. It has apart devoted to refrigeration and cryogenics. Good read.

I know some answers are avalible online, but sometimes I cant find them and sometimes its more efficient to ask because normaly the info isnt straight to the point so I have derive what i need from it and that takles time I dont have.

I am VERY greatfull for having people you you guys and my engineer friends that explain things to me. TEaching one self is one thing but having a teacher is sometimes much more effective.

I guess I will take a line in my post to thanks you all for your help. Its been a long time, lots of reading and will be more. Thanks guys.

Indeed. I need to find some sort of comprehencive database for refrigerants. Problems I have been having is that alot say different things. The chart I posted in abother thread turned out to be wrong as far as boiling point of r403a. Who knows what else is wrong in it. Aksing is nice because I get input from everyone who chances are isnt lying and speaking from the personal expirience.

its getting late, I have a test in am engineering class tomorrow. And a book to deicide weather I want to spend 100$ on

will post more of my anoying questions tomorrow

Another good book is cryogenic engineering, by JH Bell. TONS of info,well explained, and worth it if your in a cryo eng. class. Do youself a favor and learn all the major cycles (carnot, linde, stirling, rankine.... etc)

[epion2985]

I read the refrigeration section in the Marks' Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers 8th edition, its a fun read but I am disapointed, not a single formula and not much I didint really know already. Other things int he book were done better. Its to vague.

Can you recomend a nice 2000 page hard cover mehcanical refrigeration manual or something of the sort. Would be nice to have convinient lists of formulas and refrigeration specific information to refer to.

Also what do you guys think about R846 and R504? Anyone know the condensing pressure at room temperature?

[crotale]

507/402a/404a + r1150/r116
/ is or

Just for the record:
We tried R404A and R1150 in the high stage of our cascade and it did not work. The pressures sky rocketed.

AFAIK, R1150 is a propane-type of gas, so mixing with propane could yield better results, but I'm only guessing on that part.

[chilly1]

capacity of a refrigerant... Look at the enthalpy .. as in all good refrigerants as the refrigerant boils it absorbs heat energy this is the energy that it takes fir it to change state. I thingk water is 1440 btu/lb to go from liquid to gas.\

[placebo]

Geee.... I see Isceon89 getting quiet popular...

[chilly1]

FOR the cost Iceon is not that much colder and with the capacity issues it has at low temps you need more mas flow or the same wattages. Better to have a R116 Blend Then Iceon 89.

[the_new_guy]

whats the rate for iceon89