I'd like to share some thoughts on what happenned Friday in Newtown,Conneticut

[st0ned]

Ask yourselves what would have happened if she didn't had the weapons in the first place... IMO that's the most valid point of them all.

[Waterlogged]

People are forgetting a few things here.

1. We have a Constitution that guarantees all U.S. citizens "the right to bear arms". I don't think the majority of the ppl would allow this to change...especially when guns aren't the real problem.

2. As long as there is adult/child interaction in schools, these sort of incidents will always have a possibllity of happening. Let's not forget that while they are far less horrific in scale than what happened in CT, teachers sexually active with underaged children is equally horrific on the moral scale, and has happened far more often than we'd like to admit. . .not to mention that all it would take is 1 over stressed teacher that owns a gun to snap and all the measures to "keep the nut jobs out" are bypassed...heck, the teacher wouldn't even need a gun. A pair of scissors/knife/razor blade and a room of 20-30 screaming kids is a receipe for disaster just waiting to happen that's in every classroom already.

[ggdh]

++especially when guns aren't the real problem.++

Wait. What?

So what's the reason for horrific number of deaths per year caused by firearms? Lack of gun safes? Lack of education how to handle and secure guns? Or the fact that majority of population can get in possessioN of a gun in no time?

Who and why is making mistakes leading to tragedies such in Newtown? I am surprise that nothing is changing in people's mentality. What number of victims must tragedy scores to force real and long term reaction?

You say about constitution: how old is this act? Nothing has changed since 18th century?

I am not trying to provoke anyone and to start argument USA vs rest of the world. I am just trying to understand why obvious solutions are not taken into consideration.

[NKrader]

Maybe if people could actually afford to go to the hospital and get treated that would help as well! Speaking from personal experience, it is very hard to get someone help let alone be able to afford it. This country is a$$ backwards when it comes to helping people with mental disorders.

restate,

almost impossible to get low income metal health help.

been there done that..

Ask yourselves what would have happened if she didn't had the weapons in the first place... IMO that's the most valid point of them all.

we should ban drugs too, cuz then we wouldnt have crack heads and meth adicts..

wait..

[st0ned]

That comparison with drugs is so so poor that I don't even have words to describe it...

Unless you intend to go around in the street making people sniff coke and shoot some heroin.

In a country were people don't have open access to weapons the odds of a "normal" mother having an war arsenal at home, with little to no responsibility for keeping them away from a clearly retarded child...

But hey who am I?, luckily this isn't a problem affecting my country I don't have a memory of such a thing ever happening around here... and guess what weapons are really hard to get.

[bluestang]

"Right to bear arms" DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT mean ANY arms. Items meant for military and tactical use have no business being in the hands of those they were not intended for.

[bluestang]

As to the guns, his Mother owned them..She was a "prepper"..Bought them for the day the economy failed and to keep looters from her home.
Her error was in not having them locked up in a gun safe.

100% hands down no questions asked IMHO.

I guess taking and training her kids to shoot these guns in preperation for this paranoid nonsense wasn't a mistake? Not sure I would call her mentally stable either.

[CrazyNutz]

I guess taking and training her kids to shoot these guns in preperation for this paranoid nonsense wasn't a mistake? Not sure I would call her mentally stable either.

I was agreeing she made a massive error by not keeping her guns locked up. I truly think this should be absolutely mandatory if you own firearms.
Also I think this would not have happened or the death toll would have been far lower if he did not have access to this class of weapons.

That being said I also agree the "paranoid preparation nonsense" was a mistake too. I attribute that to the Media sensationalism/terrorism over-hype garbage that people buy into.

[Judaeus Apella]

Wait then why did the news this morning say he acquired the guns legally.... did they get their info wrong? (wouldn't be the first time I've seen that happen on the news)

[CrazyNutz]

Wait then why did the news this morning say he acquired the guns legally.... did they get their info wrong? (wouldn't be the first time I've seen that happen on the news)

From what I understand the guns were his mothers, that obviously he had access to. He shot her while she was sleeping.

[BeepBeep2]

So the school budget needs to go up and a lot year one to install bullet proof glass at the entrances and metal detectors and from year two the additional cost per school is say $100,000.00 for two cops.
Now spread this over the tax base and it's not huge.. Large yes, but not huge and I'll answer your questions about the cost with one simple question:
What dollar value do you put on your child?

Most new buildings have poly carb windows.

You're forgetting half the schools in the united states are 50 year old buildings, I went to a middle school that was built in 1912.

[Waterlogged]

++especially when guns aren't the real problem.++

Wait. What?

So what's the reason for horrific number of deaths per year caused by firearms? Lack of gun safes? Lack of education how to handle and secure guns? Or the fact that majority of population can get in possessioN of a gun in no time?

Who and why is making mistakes leading to tragedies such in Newtown? I am surprise that nothing is changing in people's mentality. What number of victims must tragedy scores to force real and long term reaction?

You say about constitution: how old is this act? Nothing has changed since 18th century?

I am not trying to provoke anyone and to start argument USA vs rest of the world. I am just trying to understand why obvious solutions are not taken into consideration.

The majority of gun related deaths appear to be, oddly enough, suicides (~56% of all gun deaths in 2007), according to Wiki. The actual homicides (~41% for 2007), are most likely tied to gangs and drug dealers fighting turf wars or everyday normal folks that snap for some reason or another (losing job/promotion, lover/cheated on , getting cutoff on I-405). The rest are likely catagorized as accidental deaths. Since times are a bit harder now than they were in '07, I'd suspect that the suicide rate has gone up a bit, and there is really nothing you can do about the illegal weapons that the gangs and drug dealers use, and I doubt that mental screening everyone is going to catch a whole lot of ppl before they snap.

As for the Constitution, The 2nd amendment is the one in question and was adopted on December 15, 1791. While I agree that not all types of guns should be allowed, the fact remains that a gun. . .is a gun, regardless of rate of fire, and the 2nd amendment doesn't specify any types. It's also true that the founding fathers couldn't have had any idea about the progression of firearms or society when they wrote the 2nd or they would likely have been a bit more specific (at least I'd like to think so).

Most new buildings have poly carb windows.

You're forgetting half the schools in the united states are 50 year old buildings, I went to a middle school that was built in 1912.

Impressive old building. My high school was built in 1938 (and I think they stiill had the same furniture from 1939 when I went there) and middle school was built in 1924.

As a member of a local school districts custodial staff, I can also point out that bullet resistant windows only work when the windows are actually closed and locked. I closed 4 ground level windows during my shift today. I can also validly point out that HVAC systems in schools don't always work that way they should which is why the teachers open the windows.

The school district I work for is under a great deal of finacial strain ATM, there is no way it can afford any kind of "security upgrade" as they just cut roughly 50M from the budget last Aug.. We did have a couple of globe style CCTV cameras installed a couple of years ago with money from the "Patriot Act" and believe it or not, the head of the "facilities and maintenance" dept has used some of the cameras in other buildings to spy on some of the custodial staff members and harrass them.

[Petra]

Me too, however one big problem is people fail to keep their guns secured in a gun safe. I really think this should be mandatory.
Problem is they fall in the wrong hands. Many times criminals obtains firearms while robbing peoples houses.

Sad thing is I know people that have 100's of guns, and assault weapons with all the ammo you could carry, all unsecured just
waiting for a criminal to break in while they are at work. Totally irresponsible behavior IMO, unfortunately it would take a law to
make them responsible.

The vast majority of "gun safes" (RSCs) can be compromised with the tools that most people already have in their garages--seen it happen. That said, proper storage is very important.

Most of you probably don't know this, but I actually collect [historic] firearms and have am a federal firearms license holder... I'll probably weigh in on the gun issue in a blog post or something since it's not appropriate here and is a rather difficult and complicated nut to crack.

Gun law debates are for another time. THIS is the time to focus on our children to make sure this never happens again.
Their schools need to be secure and that is the only issue that matters.
WE and THEY NEED to know that when we take the love of our lives to school that they are safe and free of fear.

This is something that I can agree with.

[NKrader]

guns are "banned" in the uk and people get killed with em every day, banning them will do nothing at all, was my point, ban drugs, people still find em.


plus guns dont matter, i i wanted to kill people i could take a big knife into a school and kill just as many people, ban knifes? baseball bats? cars? if a cray cray person wants to kill people he will find a way.

blame the person not the tool.

this is a problem that we created for ourselfs out of greed. crazy people that arent crazy enough to recive state assistance are still crazy enough to do bad stuff but we just want to ignore the problem because "i dont want to spend my money on that lazy slacker"



annnnnnnnnnnnnnd unsubbed

Still the up most respect towards your very kind heart MM.

this is terrible event. none the less, people are freaking out as of late with all the stress going down in the world this year. my baby sister was very close if not almost in the food court at the shooting in clackmas mall, scary stuff but still need to keep a clear head and dont use the small amount of bad things to change the world as the majority of it is good.

[Duh]

Guys my prayer from latin america. As mentioned before try to be nice with each other and a gold rule : don't ever put into threat kids lives.
Peace CT and the whole USA

[st0ned]

guns are "banned" in the uk and people get killed with em every day, banning them will do nothing at all, was my point, ban drugs, people still find em.


plus guns dont matter, i i wanted to kill people i could take a big knife into a school and kill just as many people, ban knifes? baseball bats? cars? if a cray cray person wants to kill people he will find a way.

blame the person not the tool.

this is a problem that we created for ourselfs out of greed. crazy people that arent crazy enough to recive state assistance are still crazy enough to do bad stuff but we just want to ignore the problem because "i dont want to spend my money on that lazy slacker"



annnnnnnnnnnnnnd unsubbed

Sorry but that's is just not correct and a 100% American view lol, I don't know how else to qualify it.

The european union has more then 3/2 the population of the US, weapons are banned in all countries and guess what I have no memory of a recent attack such as these. Of course there are people killed by weapons and weapons in circulation but there are no killing sprees at schools, cinemas, malls, etc

Just now I heard some news about some kid in the US that brought weapons to the school to prevent another attack such as these... Do you think this would happen in a country with a strict weapon regulation ? I'm sure it wouldn't .

[Petra]

The european union has more then 3/2 the population of the US, weapons are banned in all countries

If you're going to make that argument, then at least be factual. The private ownership of firearms is restricted but legal in: Austria, Finland, Czech Republic (the laws are actually pretty loose here compared to other member states... in some ways tighter and in some ways looser than California), Sweden, Slovakia (restrictive, but doable), Slovenia (also restrictive, but not impossible), France (though the "logic" of their laws is, at best, entertaining), Germany (but their laws are very, very restrictive), Italy (but, like Germany, I'm not sure of the ease of obtaining the necessary licenses), and Poland (again, with very strict regulation).

Note: I've left Romania off the list because, while it is possible to obtain a firearm for hunting, their laws are such that you may as well call firearms banned. Spain has been left off because I don't know enough about the details of their laws...and the UK is a mess.

[st0ned]

Romania is not a part of EU.

None of the countries you mentioned have weapons as liberal as the ones in the US. Hunting weapons are also allowed in Portugal, as well as small caliber revolvers but laws are, in general, much more restrictive then in the US.

Here kids don't go to school with a gun, and point it out to their mates heads threatening them to shoot if they "go tell". Neither do school teachers go to school with weapons as just happened in texas.

This doesn't mean there aren't some states, as california, with stricter gun laws.

[Petra]

Romania is not a part of EU.

Well, you can thank America's public schools for that one

None of the countries you mentioned have weapons as liberal as the ones in the US. Hunting weapons are also allowed in Portugal, as well as small caliber revolvers but laws are, in general, much more restrictive then in the US.

I wasn't arguing that, I simply took issue with you stating that firearms are "banned in all countries." That's all.

Here kids don't go to school with a gun, and point it out to their mates heads threatening them to shoot if they "go tell". Neither do school teachers go to school with weapons as just happened in texas.

Yeah, on the whole, neither of those things are normal occurrences in this country either... nor do I wish them to ever become normal/regular occurrences.

This doesn't mean there aren't some states, as california, with stricter gun laws.

It would be one thing if our "stricter" California firearms laws actually made sense (again, I refer back to the Czech Republic)... unfortunately, though, our laws seem strict but are really just silly and ineffectual (but what can you really expect from legislators who don't know the first thing about the objects they're trying to restrict).

[ggdh]

++ Romania is not a part of EU ++

Last time when i checked it actually was.

Today I've read interesting statistics. There are 82 firearms per every 100 US citizens. About 47/100 in Switzerland (big number!). Where most guns are rather serious type - assault and combat specified. Guns are kept in houses. Hardly ever people die because of them. Most men have some sort of military training and know exactly what machine gun is for and how to handle it.

Draw your own conclusions.

[st0ned]

Mea culpa, they are since 2007 :cut wrists:, although they still have some restrictions.

++ Romania is not a part of EU ++

Last time when i checked it actually was.

Today I've read interesting statistics. There are 82 firearms per every 100 US citizens. About 47/100 in Switzerland (big number!). Where most guns are rather serious type - assault and combat specified. Guns are kept in houses. Hardly ever people die because of them. Most men have some sort of military training and know exactly what machine gun is for and how to handle it.

Draw your own conclusions.

I'm no expert in Switzerland history but I think that big number of firearms per inhabitant is due to the Switz notion of army, or lack of it.

[Petra]

++ Romania is not a part of EU ++

Last time when i checked it actually was.

I am redeemed!

That is all.

[STEvil]

In China the mentally unstable use knives/swords.. really guys, the prime issue is the person, not the weapon.

[Dumo]

The problem can be narrowed to AR-15 and the likes. More than three million Americans own it, and imo. it belongs on real combat war theater not public movie theater...

[CrazyNutz]

In China the mentally unstable use knives/swords.. really guys, the prime issue is the person, not the weapon.

True, however knifes and swords are limited in the amount of damage they can cause for a given period of time. Where assault weapons can cause a
tremendous amount of damage in a very short period of time.

Had this guy just had a knife he would have perhaps killed, or injured only a few before being overpowered by adults.