Question about PROPANE....

[DXB750]

Hi,

Difficult to provide R 290 in my country, and I want to know what is appropriate and whether alternative advise for that?



And I know that it is not the pure like R290, but Do you use any one of these ?!

Thanks,

[MadHacker]

i rememeber someone else post using propane a while back...
the only issue is that propane is highly flamable.

[Buckeye]

I think temp wise it's only good for maybe -20c and not heavy loads ?

[Stewie007]

It would be better if it weren't so "dirty." Fuel grade propane isn't exactly pure.

Personally, I have a hard time recommending anyone use a flammable gas in a pressurized system. Its not meant for indoor use. There are plenty of things that can go wrong should you spring a leak. Sure, its unlikely, and the odds are quite against that happening..... I still don't like it.....

[Xeon th MG Pony]

propane is 2 degrees colder then R-22, it is good to -42 given correct compressor siziing and system design.

I have found the type in the blue bottles behaves the best, I build a system to "wash it" to get the scenting agents out aqnd to remove some of the high ends.

As others have said, if you are not experianced in both building, vacuum techniques, and flammible gasses it is best to practice more befor geting into the Ashra A2&3 gasses (WHIMIS Class B)

[DXB750]

Thank you all ...

I know very well what could be the danger posed by propane, for that to be obliged build my unit a precision and perfect with the pressure test more than once before the charging.

Anyway, what do you advise me if I want use alternative it or mixture and lead to the same performance and be safe with SS?! R402, R507, R410, R600...etc

http://www.ashrae.org/technology/page/1933#p

[Xeon th MG Pony]

R-600a is Iso-Butane R-600 is N-Butane if I recall correctly it is Ashra A3 (Non toxic, high flame propigation) it is a high temp refrigerent. I'll have to dwell over my mix tables and get back to you on some blends you can make utilizing: R290, R134a, R152a, R600a.

[Stewie007]

Is it necessary to blend, though? R507 is already a good low temp refrigerant blend....

[e-Killer]

r404a,r507 or r410a.
Your best Choice is R404A and they ara sold in small cans so you dont have to buy 20 lbs that you will not use.

I have ben Experimenting with R410A and it is an excelent gas, hold very well high heat loads and not have a high presure on the high side (i thinks its due i live at 2600 meter over sea level and we have a 18° C ambient Temperature.)

[Stewie007]

r404a,r507 or r410a.
Your best Choice is R404A and they ara sold in small cans so you dont have to buy 20 lbs that you will not use.

I have ben Experimenting with R410A and it is an excelent gas, hold very well high heat loads and not have a high presure on the high side (i thinks its due i live at 2600 meter over sea level and we have a 18° C ambient Temperature.)

R507 and R404a are both very similar. I can find R507 in 12lb cylinders, but I don't know about where he lives. R410 is a very high pressure gas and will run at higher pressures than both R404a and R507.

R507 can also be charged as a vapor, whereas 404a has to be charged as a liquid. Not to say that 404a is a bad choice, it is not. Its just that 507 will offer slightly more capacity and less temperature glide since it acts as a single refrigerant where 404a does not.

[e-Killer]

Yes R507 is better Option, but if you only need larger quantity (12 lb still alot quantity for a few systems) thats why i recommend buy r404a (you can buy 400gr cans for 8 dolars here and thats enough for 1 system).

Yes r410 is High Presure, and is not good gas for start, but if you know what are you doing you can get nice results using it. Also it being R4xx serie gases it is nearly azeotropic and you can charge your unit by gas.

I really dont see the point of make blends, if we have gases tha can work very well on all oils (For Example R422A that you can use in almost any oil and have nearly the same perfomance of R507).

[Stewie007]

Yes R507 is better Option, but if you only need larger quantity (12 lb still alot quantity for a few systems) thats why i recommend buy r404a (you can buy 400gr cans for 8 dolars here and thats enough for 1 system).

Yes r410 is High Presure, and is not good gas for start, but if you know what are you doing you can get nice results using it. Also it being R4xx serie gases it is nearly azeotropic and you can charge your unit by gas.

I really dont see the point of make blends, if we have gases tha can work very well on all oils (For Example R422A that you can use in almost any oil and have nearly the same perfomance of R507).

I don't disagree that given the option of buying 404a in such small quantities that it would be a superior choice. As I said, I don't know if he can. Different countries...... different rules.

I just think that for somebody will maybe less experience 507 would be a better option. Its easier to handle as he can charge it as a vapor without worrying about fractionation (which for a small system could have a bigger impact). 500 series exhibit no change upon boiling.

If he cannot find 404a in small quantities in the UAE, then I would recommend he go with 507. I agree that there is no need to "home brew" it.

[tiborrr]

I would recommend NU-22 (R-422B) if you're running mineral or AB oil or perhaps R-507 if you're running POE.

[LMB]

You can use propane for a refrigerant .... true , but as others have said it is VERY dangerous . I would stay away unless you are a very experienced builder . However , if you get the experience or already have it then testing with propane can be a very cost effective way to test a system . Notice I said TEST. Not for 24/7 use. With my current 7/8 hp rotary and 10' of .036 cap tube i can run propane @ -34 C @ 300 watt load . I also use 507 as refrigerant in this system .

BTW ... you can use 507a with AB oil as long as you FIRST add a 5% shot of propane and then add the 507a . The propane will help keep the compressor oil miscible with the refrigerant so you don't starve the compressor of oil. This is how I run my unit.

Good luck and BE CAREFUL !

[teyber]

I used to use a tank similar on the right in your original picture.
Its wet and impure, so maybe hook up 1 or 2 filters in line when
charging. Only use propane after you do some research on how
to avoid its consequences. I wouldn't think of using propane in
a system that wasn't evacuated with a proper vacuum pump either.

[tiborrr]

I've checked the prices of refrigerant yesterday:
- October 2009 i payed 8.5€/kg for R-507 (VAT included)
- October 2011 the same crap costs 20.19€+VAT = 24.3€/kg :eeek:

Salesman also told me that as of Jan 1st 2012 the prices are going up additional 100%.
Time to make a move to straight pure propane, which can be bought at Messer for a decent price ~ 100€/10kg.