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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #1251
    SLC One_Hertz's Avatar
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    292.75TB. 48 reallocated sectors. MD5 OK. The value which I think is the wear indicator is at 146.

  2. #1252
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Ooo, a new drive

    Need to dot some I's and cross some T's first though

    What kind of static data do you have? Most of us (all of us?) are running with our drives ~60-70% full of static data and with minimum free space of 12GiB in Anvil's app (Anvil's app will fill the drive until only that much is free, then delete and refill). I see you're running 36GiB free, which leads me to believe 0 static data and a very short run lengths of ~1.25GiB (your drive has only ~37.25GiB user capacity, AFAIK).

    What compression setting in Anvil's app? Anything but 0-fill (and probably 8%) is preferred for SandForce drives. Incompressible isn't necessary as SMART attribute E9 tracks NAND writes. Based on NAND writes, we can figure out P/E cycles; it isn't a SMART attribute with SandForce drives.

    MD5 can be enabled at any time

    I see that's actually a Force 40-A, but I don't know what that means for the 40GB variety but every other -A version is 25nm IMFT. I wasn't aware there were 40GB 25nm drives in the wild, could be interesting

    And last but not least, are you okay with Lifetime Throttle (LTT) kicking in? It's likely that in a couple weeks your drive will slow to a crawl and will attempt to force the drive to last for a very long time (no idea what Corsair set this timespan for, however).

  3. #1253
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    C300 Update

    183.345TiB host writes, 38 MWI, 3101 raw wear, 2048/1 reallocations, 62.2MiB/sec, MD5 OK


    SF-1200 nLTT Update (from much earlier today)

    59.94TiB host writes, 35.25 NAND writes, 85 MWI, 564 raw wear (equiv), wear range delta 3, 56.2MiB/sec, MD5 OK.

  4. #1254
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Charts Updated

    All bar charts are sorted by their respective equivalent of Writes So Far.

    Host Writes So Far

    Aug10HostBar.png

    Aug10HostLine.png


    Normalized Writes So Far
    The SSDs are not all the same size, these charts normalize for available NAND capacity.

    Aug10NormBar.png

    Aug10NormLine.png


    Write Days So Far
    Not all SSDs write at the same speed, these charts factor out write speeds and look at endurance as a function of time.

    Aug10WDBar.png

    Aug10WDLine.png


    Host Writes vs. NAND Writes and Write Amplication
    Based on reported or calculated NAND cycles from wear SMART values divided by total writes.

    Aug10WrLin.png

    Aug10WrLog.png

    Aug10WrtAmp.png

  5. #1255
    SynbiosVyse
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Ooo, a new drive

    Need to dot some I's and cross some T's first though

    What kind of static data do you have? Most of us (all of us?) are running with our drives ~60-70% full of static data and with minimum free space of 12GiB in Anvil's app (Anvil's app will fill the drive until only that much is free, then delete and refill). I see you're running 36GiB free, which leads me to believe 0 static data and a very short run lengths of ~1.25GiB (your drive has only ~37.25GiB user capacity, AFAIK).

    What compression setting in Anvil's app? Anything but 0-fill (and probably 8%) is preferred for SandForce drives. Incompressible isn't necessary as SMART attribute E9 tracks NAND writes. Based on NAND writes, we can figure out P/E cycles; it isn't a SMART attribute with SandForce drives.

    MD5 can be enabled at any time

    I see that's actually a Force 40-A, but I don't know what that means for the 40GB variety but every other -A version is 25nm IMFT. I wasn't aware there were 40GB 25nm drives in the wild, could be interesting

    And last but not least, are you okay with Lifetime Throttle (LTT) kicking in? It's likely that in a couple weeks your drive will slow to a crawl and will attempt to force the drive to last for a very long time (no idea what Corsair set this timespan for, however).
    Thanks for your reply Vapor.

    I only have a few files on the drive: a word file, an excel file, and an image file. In total they are consuming approximately 2.2 MiB.

    Currently:
    3500.91 GiB written
    14.53 hours
    68.21 MB/s average

    I will double check this but afaik the F40-A is not 25nm based. There was a slight change in B.O.M with regards to some other chipset components which also gave rise to the firmware versions beyond 2.0. All of the original Force drives are at 2.0. Depending on what new B.O.M. you have, you'll have either 2.1b or 2.2.

    Also, afaik, the SMART data is mostly broken in the firmware versions beyond 1.1. The health for example, is rigged to always say 100% (if somebody else finds otherwise, please let me know).

    I have no problem with LTT kicking in. In fact, it was one of my plans to figure out just when exactly that does activate. The drive was meant to be expendable, so I have no problem ruining it. I also plan on secure erasing the drive after it kicks in to see if that would restore any of the performance. From your experience, you think that it would most likely not do anything right?

    Lastly:
    1) What do you recommend I set the compression to?
    2) What do you recommend I set the GiB free setting to?
    3) Should I hit stop to change these settings, as well as enable MD5?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by SynbiosVyse; 08-11-2011 at 07:08 AM.

  6. #1256
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    m4 update:

    273.4735 TiB
    905hours
    Avg speed 89.43 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 201 to 197.
    P/E 4786.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors

    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_1GB-20110811-2028.PNG


    I'll be joining with a second ssd within a week or two. I just ordered a Kingston SSDNow V+ 100 64GB.
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    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  7. #1257
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    @SynbiosVysem, the rest of us are keeping a lot more static data on the drive than that...basically the same amount as a compact Windows install.

    SMART isn't broken, the algorithm is just changed. MWI will drop below 100% after 5-10TiB of NAND writes, then count down normally from there.

    When LTT kicks in, the only thing that will restore performance is idle time connected to a PC. A secure erase won't do anything (other than restore the drive to a fresh state compared to a used/steady state...but LTT is independent of burst throttling and new/used/steady state). Will be interesting to see what lifetime length your drive is set for (will be able to tell once LTT kicks in). The Vertex 2 40GB (34nm) was set for 1 year with 5000 P/E cycle NAND but we have no idea what Corsair set theirs for (or even what NAND you have).

    I'd recommend either 46% or 67% compression. 46% acts an awful lot like Windows/applications/caches and 67% acts an awful lot like documents/pictures (DOCX, XLSX, DNG, PNG, and JPEG).

    I'd recommend GiB free set to 12 like the rest of us.

    And yeah, feel free to stop/start at will (you don't even need to have "Keep running totals" checked because your drive tracks both host and NAND writes).


    @B.A.T, very excited for the V+100!

  8. #1258
    SynbiosVyse
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    @SynbiosVysem, the rest of us are keeping a lot more static data on the drive than that...basically the same amount as a compact Windows install.

    SMART isn't broken, the algorithm is just changed. MWI will drop below 100% after 5-10TiB of NAND writes, then count down normally from there.

    When LTT kicks in, the only thing that will restore performance is idle time connected to a PC. A secure erase won't do anything (other than restore the drive to a fresh state compared to a used/steady state...but LTT is independent of burst throttling and new/used/steady state). Will be interesting to see what lifetime length your drive is set for (will be able to tell once LTT kicks in). The Vertex 2 40GB (34nm) was set for 1 year with 5000 P/E cycle NAND but we have no idea what Corsair set theirs for (or even what NAND you have).

    I'd recommend either 46% or 67% compression. 46% acts an awful lot like Windows/applications/caches and 67% acts an awful lot like documents/pictures (DOCX, XLSX, DNG, PNG, and JPEG).

    I'd recommend GiB free set to 12 like the rest of us.

    And yeah, feel free to stop/start at will (you don't even need to have "Keep running totals" checked because your drive tracks both host and NAND writes).


    @B.A.T, very excited for the V+100!
    Thanks Vapor I will make those adjustments and start running again. I noticed you guys basically report every day. Does it matter any particular time-interval for reporting?

  9. #1259
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    I think at first (while MWI=100), twice a day should be good (if you can). That way we get a decent idea of how long MWI stayed at 100. After that, once a day or even less frequently is probably fine as MWI drops linearly. With LTT looming, checking in periodically on speeds (even if you don't report) doesn't hurt

  10. #1260
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    229.87TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 6
    MD5 OK
    -
    Hardware:

  11. #1261
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    I threw the M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB on a Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit system late this afternoon before I left work to see how it reacts with trim.

    I ripped through 20 loops and was at 99.98 MB/s Avg when I left

    Can't wait to see what numbers it brings in the morning
    Last edited by bluestang; 08-12-2011 at 10:31 AM.
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  12. #1262
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    386.728 TiB, 1049 hours, sa177: 1/1/31677, sa178: 65/65/350
    398.182 TiB, 1079 hours, sa177: 1/1/32603, sa178: 64/64/366

    Average speed reported by Anvil's app has been steady at about 113MB/s.

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

  13. #1263
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    398.182 TiB, 1079 hours, sa177: 1/1/32603, sa178: 64/64/366

    Average speed reported by Anvil's app has been steady at about 113MB/s.

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470
    Samsung is breaking the 400TiB barrier tonight. Wow! I don't care if its WA is 5 or 5000. This drive is a winner!

  14. #1264
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    C300 Update

    189.23TiB host writes, 36 MWI, 3200 raw wear, 2048/1 reallocations, 62.3MiB/sec, MD5 OK


    SF-1200 nLTT Update

    66.938TiB host writes, 40.75TiB NAND writes, 82 MWI, 652 raw wear (equiv), 56MiB/sec, MD5 OK

  15. #1265
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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    Samsung is breaking the 400TiB barrier tonight. Wow! I don't care if its WA is 5 or 5000. This drive is a winner!
    i would agree with that statement, the terrible WA on that drive is just inidicative of how resilient this NAND is.

    If we take into consideration the WA of the samsung, and compare that to the WA of the other drives, what would the expected amount of writes for the other drives be, taking this into consideration? they should basically last forever. lol.

    if the write amplification of the Samsung is at 5.14 and it is passing 400TiB, would i be wrong to extrapolate that the NAND itself would last *at least* until 1.9PB for one of the drives which have a WA of 1?
    my thought process is that it is beating that nand at a much harder rate than the others are.
    Last edited by Computurd; 08-11-2011 at 09:42 PM. Reason: fixed mistype
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  16. #1266
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Well, 400TiB * 5.14x = 2.01PiB. That's pretty epic already.

    If the other 60/64GB drives survive to 2PiB with their 1.00-1.11x WA and 55-90MiB/sec speeds, we're going to be at this for a very, very long time.

    Wasn't part of the impetus for this test some site torturing a drive with over 1PB of writes and people doubting it? Looking more and more plausible now.

  17. #1267
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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    yes that was the beginning. discussion of a test with a PB written over a year of testing.
    The forum was split (well there were a few who thought PB+)(Comp *whistles innocently*)
    So Mr. Anvil decided to test. Truly a great beginning to many things for the site, from this testing we have learned very much, from SF throttling, to more about SF throttling LOL and WA, different SMART values, how to figure compression ratios on SF, anvil developing an UBER app, im sure there is some I missed. great stuff though


    but as this progresses im sure there will be more epic revelations...and with the possibility of a *minimum possible* 2PB on some of these devices, we might start testing next gen, and the gen beyond that, before these things die!
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  18. #1268
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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    Someone do some math. what would the P/E ratio be for the samsung right now with its 400TiB and 5.14 WA?
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  19. #1269
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Just look at SMART attribute 177's raw value. Over 32,600 right now

  20. #1270
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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  21. #1271
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    Just remember that the WA calculation is our guess rather than a fact. WA of 5.14 would mean that the NAND on the Samsung is actually writing at 580MB/s which is rather doubtful. Looking at how the reallocated sectors are growing on my drive and on the samsung, I'd say we will be getting somewhere soon. And by soon I mean in the next few hundred TB lol
    Last edited by One_Hertz; 08-12-2011 at 06:14 AM.

  22. #1272
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    48.55 TiB
    309 hours
    MWI 64 (drops by 1 for every 50 raw wear)
    1830 Raw Wear
    68.09 MB/s avg for the last 16.7 hours (on W7 x64)
    MD5 OK

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-08.12.2011.jpg
    Last edited by bluestang; 08-12-2011 at 10:31 AM.
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  23. #1273
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    m4 update:

    279.3588 TiB
    924hours
    Avg speed 89.39 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 19 to 193.
    P/E 4890.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors

    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_1GB-20110812-1544.PNG

    Next update will be late monday. I'm going away for the weekend.
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    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  24. #1274
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    Whoa, bluestang...adding TRIM has severely affected the WA.

    Your Average WA had been hovering at ~2.43x for the past few updates, only to drop to 2.33x (a very large drop considering Average WA is a figured based on the sum of all updates). It dropped so much because Recent WA (WA based on just the change between previous update and current update) went from 2.39x to 1.89x

  25. #1275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Whoa, bluestang...adding TRIM has severely affected the WA.

    Your Average WA had been hovering at ~2.43x for the past few updates, only to drop to 2.33x (a very large drop considering Average WA is a figured based on the sum of all updates). It dropped so much because Recent WA (WA based on just the change between previous update and current update) went from 2.39x to 1.89x
    I was thinking of trying to switch this over to a Win 7 system...should I not? I don't want to screw with anything.

    Also, sorry if this is a stupid question, but if my Max PE Count Spec (CD) was listed as 10,000....would that cut the WA in half?
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