Q08 + pa160

[zoob]

Cut+Paste of my worklog off of another forum

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Selling off my large cases as I'm in love with tiny setups at the moment. I have a stripped town TJ07 that's been sitting there for almost one year that I have barely touched. My tastes are changing as I am discovering I no longer want a Crossfire or SLI setup. Instead I want a nice, quiet, tiny system.

I moved from a heavily modified Rocketfish watercooled system to a much smaller (and not as fast) system in a Lian-Li A05NB. Seeing how I only need one PCI-E slot, and now use optical out to my receiver (and an Apogee One DAC), I don't have a need for a discrete sound card in my daily use computer.

Here's where Mini-ITX fits. One PCI-E slot for a nice graphics card, everything else onboard, all in a tiny package. Perfect!

My goal is small and quiet. Ever since the Q08 came out with the front 140mm fan, I always wondered, "Would my PA160 fit in this?" I had intended on using it in my old Twice7 case but did not have the tools or materials to make it work. It wouldn't fit anywhere nice in my Rocketfish (which already had a PA120.3), nor would it fit anywhere in a 800D, OR the A05).

I took the risk and purchased a Q08 from NCIX's latest sale (they had it for $99). Finally, I get to use the PA160 somewhere (hopefully)!

My current list of materials include:

Lian Li Q08B case
Thermochill PA160 radiator
DDC3.2 w/XSPC res top
Apogee XT CPU block
Pioneer DVR-218LBK DVD Drive
XFX Radeon HD5850 video card

Somewhat undecided for the rest of the parts. I may end up taking the H55N out of my file server and use it here, provided I find a suitable cheap mobo as a replacement.

Here are some pics of the first rough cuts and placement of parts. I tried to keep the original mounting holes intact in the event I want to revert this back to an air-cooled system. My tools are: Wiss snips, and needle nose pliers. Hardly the tool-belt of a hardcore modder, but it's enough to get the job done. The best thing, the only piece I cut comes out with four screws (after you take the six screws off for each panel). I can take the small piece back to my Parent's garage to sand/file/paint it.

[zoob]

Some wider pics.

[zoob]

More test fit:
- 5850 definitely won't fit, even if I stick with a 140mm fan. It's simply too long
- GTX 460 at 8.5" would be my best bet at the moment
- I will probably have to go with a T-line and the stock DDC top if I can't find a suitable replacement like the original Alphacool, or the new Phobya top

I really hope I can de-couple the pump so it does not transmit vibrations through the case. Also need to find some nice foam insulation for the rad-case mating surface. Also need to figure out how to hold it in place - maybe a nice strip of industrial velcro (might ruin the rad finish, but who cares if it's on the bottom where it can't be seen

Pump will sit on a nice soft sponge, don't know how to mount, maybe also velcro!

[zoob]

Some minor updates. Finally have some guts (now that P67 boards are delayed )

So I received my 860 from 3oh6 today, and as I tighten down my Megahalems heatsink so I can give the CPU a test on air (and on a better motherboard), the frigging bracket breaks!


Pisser, so I have to resort to some fancy stock cooling to test this thing out.


Superb motherboard of choice.


Coming together with some budget 2x4 GB RAM and a 5770...


Hard core budget shot!


Temporary home


Goals of this machine:
1. Run OSX
2. Run very quietly
3. Run overclocked

:canadianwave:

[zoob]

Here goes on the backplate for the Apogee XT. It clears the components on the back of the motherboard... no modding necessary!
Though I do flip the foam pads because I do not want them sticking to the motherboard.




Sinking it up. I did fill in the rest of the PWM area FYI... I just took the pic before I opened the second box.



The motherboard sits into the standoffs - it catches a little bit because the standoffs go into the motherboard mounting holes slightly. Very nifty.



Mount the drives and cover up my crappy cuts with 3.0charlie's awesome trim! Thank you John!

[zoob]

Devising a cheap and non-permanent way to mount the radiator - just in case I decide to move back to air.



Stealthed drive (sorry for blurry)



Tight fitment, the trim helps keep the barb from knocking up against the metal.


Very tight fit with the fan


Getting a feel for the space... man it's going to be tight.



WTF to do with the pump???

[zoob]

Too much money for bitspower fittings But I'm glad I purchased them!



Cheap sleeving. Free from my LCD monitors!


Some more tubing going in...



7V trick on my pump for silence (since it's one block one rad...)


Filling! Also a quick 10 min leak test while I bleed the air.


Two leaks. One at the BP crystal T... tighten it with pliers. Second was the FAR CORNER of the radiator. I have to pull out the vid card, and take off the side panel to get to it (barely enough slack on the tubing), and reach in with needlenose pliers to tighten it up.


When leak testing/bleeding I ran the pump at 12V. Tested it out, but decided to reduce it back down to 7V for noise and to compare temps... but the stupid pin broke!


Quick solder job later, and BAM, stupid messy cram packed build:

I'm surprised it all fit! I need to figure out how the heck to keep the wires tidy, and I'm afraid the enzotech sinks will fall and fry my video card, but it's all done! Sitting next to my stripped down Sandy Bridge Lili A05 build.



Radiator fan: Scythe S-Flex E @ 7V
Case top blowhole fan: Stock @ 7V
Pump: DDC3.2 @ 7V

Loudest component: XFX Radeon HD5770 single slot cooler
Loudest thing in my computer room: Condo ventilation stack (loud electrical buzz/hum)

Not worth buying a regular 5770 + waterblock because it would prevent me from using the 2nd PCI slot bracket to run USB3.0 extensions for the front.

Stress test hits about 63C on the CPU at 3.5GHz 1.25V BIOS (no LLC) with the fourth core outta whack showing 73C.

Finally got to use my Thermochill PA160 I bought when it was first released!!!

[Tetrafluorometh]

Can you not flip the rad the other way around? I seen 1 PA160 with a 140mm fan, maybe the Sliverstone 180mm might be better to use! I like what you've done, personly i'd done it different on tube layout.

Do have 1 question, how well does it bleed with the T-line being like that with the 90* on the return to the pump? Im thinking i am going to have to do something simular in a setup of mine.

[Waterlogged]

Nice build. Just 2 little things...switch the fan to a Gentle Typhoon AP-13 (1150RPM) or AP-14 (1450RPM) and, it's just a word of caution but, DDC's don't like going below 8V very much. They tend to get picky about what V they'll startup somewhere later down the road.

[josk1]

love it!!
good job dude!!

[shazza]

God work ... can you clarify where you put your Enzo heatsinks?

[autobot]

Be extremely careful when tightening barbs on that bitpower acrylic T as they are known to crack.

[zoob]

Thanks for the comments guys!

Can you not flip the rad the other way around?
..
Do have 1 question, how well does it bleed with the T-line being like that with the 90* on the return to the pump?

If I flip the rad 90 degrees it's too wide and bumps into the USB ports. That would have been my first choice but the tiny size prevents the loop layout from being the most logical. The 90 degree feed into the pump is fine. Bleeding is actually pretty quick, I just had to shake the rad a few times to get the big bubbles out. It's really easy to fill if you can have someone (or a foot) to trigger the pump while pouring water.

Nice build. Just 2 little things...switch the fan to a Gentle Typhoon AP-13 (1150RPM) or AP-14 (1450RPM) and, it's just a word of caution but, DDC's don't like going below 8V very much. They tend to get picky about what V they'll startup somewhere later down the road.

If I could get my hands on the lower speed GTs maybe I'll give it a try. Those things are so damned hard to get a hold of
I've run one at 7V for a few months and never had an issue, but I'll keep my eyes on it. How long did yours last before it degraded?

God work ... can you clarify where you put your Enzo heatsinks?

Thanks! I put them on the same components indicated by the post here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=124

Be extremely careful when tightening barbs on that bitpower acrylic T as they are known to crack.

Then I'm glad I only ever purchased one of them
I'll keep that in mind though... the build quality on that T is not the best, but I needed one that gives me some flexibility with attachments.

[Waterlogged]

If I could get my hands on the lower speed GTs maybe I'll give it a try. Those things are so damned hard to get a hold of
I've run one at 7V for a few months and never had an issue, but I'll keep my eyes on it. How long did yours last before it degraded?

If your willing to order from the States, both FrozenCPU and Performance-PC's have both GT's in stock.

On the pump, I was playing with a solder modded MCP350 @ 5v for about 4 days before it decided it didn't want to start at that voltage anymore. It still works fine @12V but, it does worry me so I keep a close eye on it.

[Johnny87au]

You could of bled you system with grounding the psu using the black n green on the 24 pin.. With the tline would of been easier getting the koolance res which just mounts on top of the ddc, overall love sff builds

[zoob]

Updates! Waterlogged, the pump still working great at 7V. It is a DDC3.2 so higher stock RPM than a 350, I'm thinking that's key. I've never been able to get any DDC version to start at 5V.

Purchased an ASROCK Z68M-ITX, along with a few 140mm fans to test out. The shroud in my original setup was causing a lot of space to be wasted.

Also after a week of testing on another setup I've concluded that the Sandy Bridge IGP playing back movies at 23.973 Hz is completely blown out of proportion. I haven't noticed a difference since switching away from my Radeon 5770. See some details here about how ATI, nVidia, and Intel can't get it right: Let's set this straight - No one can do 24p consistently well - AVS Forum

Pictures! This is going to lack polish, but I go for function over form for the most part. Clearly evidenced by some of the material at the end of this update

The board is tiny. I love ITX, but I do not love overclocking in such confined areas.


Healthy assortment of connectors on the back. I'm using 2 x USB, HDMI, and that is all at the moment.


Board overview. I've sinked some of the MOSFETs, and added more sinks as you will see later. The VRM is the weak point in this board, causing overclocks of >4GHz to throttle back.


The ram clips come very close to the PCI-E slot.


The ALC892 is tucked away in the corner. Onboard analog audio is probably pretty terrible.


Heatsinked up. Though you will see a clearance issue with one of the MOSFET sinks in the next pic.


I had to remove one of the tiny MOS-C1's so it would not interfere with my Apogee XT mounting.


The stock Z68 heatsink is TINY and gets very hot under load. I'm going to be replacing this whenever I decide on something.


The first 2600K I've owned. Purchased way back on launch. Hits 48x100@1.425V set BIOS on my P8P67-DLX.


Flipping over, the back side has a few components. Also notice the nasty residue. I think it's left over flux.



The Realtek 8111E network chip is on the back, as well what I think are some VRM controller chips.


I ordered three 140mm fans to see which one would pass my 'silence' test.
Scythe Slipstream 500RPM (+/- 15% according to the box)
Scythe Slipstream 800RPM
SilverStone AP141 (supposedly runs 700RPM @ 5V)

In free air in my hands, I thought the Slipstream 500RPM @ 12V sounded much better than the AP141 @ 5V. So...

Here I attempt to quickly build a shroud for my Scythe Slipstream 500 RPM 140mm fan.



Mounted and running.




The system is powered by a Winmate DD-24AX (see review here: Winmate DD-24AX DC-DC Module for Silent, Efficient Power | silentpcreview.com) just as a test. It's great for isolating noise.

After about 30 min of testing, I concluded that the Slipstream 500 RPM has too much bearing chatter. It also runs much closer to 600RPM at full speed. I do have an 800 RPM version on the way (it was part of the same order but it has not yet shipped), and I do not expect it to be any smoother.
Also the AP141 runs at 600RPM when plugged in to the Chassis fan plug and having the BIOS control it down to "Level 1" setting.

As a result, I ended up 'building' a shroud for the AP141 out of foam to try and decouple it from the case and reduce the motor growl. The main foam casing actually came from my HX620 PSU box. I added one small strip of foam for it to sit on. Two small strips of the same foam sit underneath the DDC pump to prevent vibrations as it can generate an audible high pitched tone if it's in direct contact with the case.

Overview with the optical drives added. This WD 500GB Black 2.5" drive is very noisy, and I used my extra SSD in my brother's rig.


The Nexus 80mm fan is currently running at 12V cooling the VRM area. It is 'loud' for my tastes but relatively benign compared to the HDD I'm testing with.


"Stable" no-throttle overclock with the above setup.


Temperatures are very good. I almost feel like I'm wasting this CPU in this setup, but I couldn't find a good deal on a 2500K.

I'm hoping I can reach as high as 4.5GHz when I use a proper PSU. My Winmate is only rated for 130W and right now the system is drawing about 119W under LinX full load. Unfortunately I cannot locate my Win7+SP1 disc so no AVX testing at the moment.

Next steps:

- Install my other 4GB DDR3 stick
- Install Blu-Ray drive (ordered)
- Install Seasonic X660 PSU (ordered)
- 5V the 80mm fan and figure out how to mount it, re-test to see if it will throttle
- Figure out which video card to use in this setup
- Fix the foam fan shroud to the rad, probably using electrical tape.
- Drill a hole in the case to feed the front panel USB3.0 extension cables through to the back of the motherboard

[MrBean]

Hello Mate,
Happy New Year

Like what you're doing here, going to be a decent little gaming box. As with you, after about 13-14 years of overclocking these monster systems, I am slowly migrating over to mini-itx and smaller - I currently have about 10 mini-itx and 5.25/3.5" systems up and running

Anyway, just a few comments, if I may:

1) Invest on a fine-tooth metal-file, and clean up those cuts - it will be 10-15 minutes, and it will look the goods.

2) If I were you, I would stick to a 140mm Rad with fan - a very painless installation allowing you to retain all the original mounting hardware, plus you will gain 2-3cm more for a longer gfx card. You probably won't consider this, just a thought.

3) Why not grab one of the Koolance RP401-X2 reservoirs, and mount that in your drive-bay - then fit a slimline slotload vertically next to the rad? Will look fantastic, and free up the tubing and even more space in your case...

3) You can get some ideas of what I've done, look at my project 'Macho-mini' - same case, similar ideas -> link in my sig.

Will follow this one, to see what you come up with.

Commendable effort though, not always easy to fit real hardcore hardware/watercooling into such a small system....

Br,
mrbean

[Furball Zen]

Why not run a MCW30 on the NB chip? Or at least a Thermalright IFX if itll fit the case, i know itll fit the chip.