Swiftech Caldera 4870X2 Released

[rootz0r]

Swiftech logo could be spelled backwards for all I care as long as it performs well

[Chruschef]

I'm interested to see the VRM temperatures with this heat-sink combination.
I'm surprised how bad this product launch has gone.

Then again, swiftech's fullcover solutions haven't been the best. The stealth blocks had Alu, the obsidian was VERY unattractive, the caldera is a lil over priced.

MCW60+Ramsinks = Win

[philbrown23]

so no idea about weather or not it will fit the 4850X2?

[migueld]

What makes this design better than other similar products to warrant the higher price? The most expensive material; copper; has been significantly reduced and should allow for a less expensive product. The only benefit I see is not dumping the mem/vreg heat into the loop but in turn forces you to use a fan to move the heat into the case. I like the idea of the heatsink if it is used in conjunction with standard/re-usable blocks, but all of this is tied to one single card. This option makes no sense in cost or function. The only possible upside I see is bling factor, which I think is important for a good deal of people but not put ahead of overall performance and cost.

Please explain to me where I am wrong? I did not set out to attack this product, I just can't seem to find a place for it, this late and this pricey.

I agree. If the reason for going hybrid is to be economical, why is the product so expensive? At that price-point I'd rather get a real full cover block to cool the entire card.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

so no idea about weather or not it will fit the 4850X2?

well you need to measure the die spacing on the 4850 x2 with some calipers dont you? if you do I will caliper my 4870x2 for you for comparison numbers

[kadozer]

Ok noob question: Will 1/2 3/4 fittings fit or will the bottom lip hit the card (inner side facing top of case) like the rest of the full coverage blocks on the market?

The unique spacing of the inlet/outlets from each other makes this an ideal block for my specific confined space and the above fitting would make it perfect high price and all.

[Broken]

Still would like comparisons of this to other blocks. And was thinking this was designed to be modular. If you buy this caldera and the heatsink base, your pretty much not going to be able to use either part for future builds unless it is two dies on a board with the same spacing, right? Unless you go with MCW-60's.. So why not get a full cover and cool everything? You would be out the same amount of money when you go to a new card anyway..

[jc99]

Still would like comparisons of this to other blocks. And was thinking this was designed to be modular. If you buy this caldera and the heatsink base, your pretty much not going to be able to use either part for future builds unless it is two dies on a board with the same spacing, right? Unless you go with MCW-60's.. So why not get a full cover and cool everything? You would be out the same amount of money when you go to a new card anyway..

The difference is the heat from the memory/vrms will not be introduced into the loop like a true full cover. It will give you better temps where it matters the most.

[Utnorris]

On an HD4870x2 the memory needs to be cooled sufficiently also, otherwise you will get artifacts and will be limited on the overclocking you can do. This is one my issues with this block since the grooves go up and down and not side to side to allow airflow between the grooves which would cool the memory better. On a full cover block since everything is cooled by the loop, there is no need for airflow. Yes, you will have more heat dumped into the loop, but if your loop is good this should only add a few degrees at most. I went from using two MCW60's on two HD4850's in a loop to a full cover block on a HD4870x2 and my temps only increased a few degrees.

[Adonay]

can we buy that heatsink with out the waterblock ? i was thinking about useing 2 MCW60's ...

[Petra]

can we buy that heatsink with out the waterblock ? i was thinking about useing 2 MCW60's ...

Yes...

[Boyu]

can we buy that heatsink with out the waterblock ? i was thinking about useing 2 MCW60's ...

yes,
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/Caldera-HS.asp

[gabe]

On an HD4870x2 the memory needs to be cooled sufficiently also, otherwise you will get artifacts and will be limited on the overclocking you can do. This is one my issues with this block since the grooves go up and down and not side to side to allow airflow between the grooves which would cool the memory better. On a full cover block since everything is cooled by the loop, there is no need for airflow. Yes, you will have more heat dumped into the loop, but if your loop is good this should only add a few degrees at most. I went from using two MCW60's on two HD4850's in a loop to a full cover block on a HD4870x2 and my temps only increased a few degrees.

What is your everyday overclock on your 4870X2?

[MrBean]

This is one my issues with this block since the grooves go up and down and not side to side to allow airflow between the grooves which would cool the memory better. On a full cover block since everything is cooled by the loop, there is no need for airflow.

There would be a very minimal difference having the grooves side->side vs up->down. Use a decent exhaust fan to scavenge, and no worries - the key here is to have positive airflow across the heatsink, watercooling is viewed by to many from a theoretical perspective. It's the same with aircooling and heatsink orientation, if you have a good exhaust system, it doesn't really make a difference of more than 1 or 2 deg C on final temps.

In the real world, this is neglible, with absolutely zero impact on overclockability or system performance.

One very positive aspect of Gabe's design, which is overlooked by the proponents of a "full" waterblock, is that you will get better contact on the components to be cooled. When these cards are manufactured, and components are flow-soldered in the solder-baths, they do not sit 100% flat - meaning, the bigger surface area and ore components, the better the chances for crappy contact.

I will rather have seperate blocks for the GPu's, like in this case, and then something for the rest. Yes, you still need a fan this way, but I'll rather have a fan and waterblocks and get better cooling on ALL the components vs a full block, and the possibility of no contact on some critical component.

The best would be seperate blocks for all components, i.e memory sinks, GPU blocks, mosfet sinks, etc....

IMHO, the full-blocks does a pretty good job, but you will always get better average temps with individual (and properly selected) blocks and heatsinks.

Anyway, just my 2c, but it might be good to look at ViperJohn's attemps and kits he's selling for the NVidia cards - ever wondered why he gone down the path he did cooling his cards?

So yes, Gabe's Caldera and seperate GPU-blocks design will be better than a full-coverage block, and slightly worse than a indivdual component block - all else being equal.

At the end, we have to be thankful that we have 3 options we can exercise.

It's up to you to choose what suits your application best, and what suits your's best, may not necessarily be the best for the next guy.

Enjoy

[gabe]

There would be a very minimal difference having the grooves side->side vs up->down. Use a decent exhaust fan to scavenge, and no worries - the key here is to have positive airflow across the heatsink, watercooling is viewed by to many from a theoretical perspective. It's the same with aircooling and heatsink orientation, if you have a good exhaust system, it doesn't really make a difference of more than 1 or 2 deg C on final temps.

In the real world, this is neglible, with absolutely zero impact on overclockability or system performance.

One very positive aspect of Gabe's design, which is overlooked by the proponents of a "full" waterblock, is that you will get better contact on the components to be cooled. When these cards are manufactured, and components are flow-soldered in the solder-baths, they do not sit 100% flat - meaning, the bigger surface area and ore components, the better the chances for crappy contact.

I will rather have seperate blocks for the GPu's, like in this case, and then something for the rest. Yes, you still need a fan this way, but I'll rather have a fan and waterblocks and get better cooling on ALL the components vs a full block, and the possibility of no contact on some critical component.

The best would be seperate blocks for all components, i.e memory sinks, GPU blocks, mosfet sinks, etc....

IMHO, the full-blocks does a pretty good job, but you will always get better average temps with individual (and properly selected) blocks and heatsinks.

Anyway, just my 2c, but it might be good to look at ViperJohn's attemps and kits he's selling for the NVidia cards - ever wondered why he gone down the path he did cooling his cards?

So yes, Gabe's Caldera and seperate GPU-blocks design will be better than a full-coverage block, and slightly worse than a indivdual component block - all else being equal.

At the end, we have to be thankful that we have 3 options we can exercise.

It's up to you to choose what suits your application best, and what suits your's best, may not necessarily be the best for the next guy.

Enjoy

Excellent analysis. The trick parts with individual components are the mosfets. Very tiny, and hard to have thermal tape stick due to small surface. That's ppl biggest complaint. Whenever I setup with individual sinks, I use silver epoxy, but ppl don't like that because if takes all kind of tricks to make it so you can remove them in case of need, therefore jeopardizing warranty. It all boils down to convenience. Whenever possible it is good to have specialized sinks that can be fastened to card, like the 8800 and 9800 mosfet sinks that we made for GeForce 8800 and 9800 series, but this was only made possible by the location of the mounting screws on the board. If you have no anchor points, you can't use a bolt on sink, and you are left gluing..

The success of full coverage blocks is a result of a compromise between cooling, convenience, and bling. At Swiftech, we try to emphasize cooling efficiency/capacity where it is most needed versus convenience and bling. The key word here being "emphasize", not set aside..meaning that we don't discard these factors, but rather we prioritize performance over them.

Commercially, I realize that this is a handicap, because we spend more time doing research and design than the other guys, which causes us to be late in shipping, and it is also a handicap because it seems that the majority of users in this particular VGA cooling sector favor bling and convenience versus performance. I understand that the reason is in fact quite simple: if you are not volt-modding, then a few degrees may not matter. This argument in itself should push us towards doing more like the other vendors, but there is one last thing I didn't mention above: we don't like doing like everyone else. Each new project to us is an excuse to exercise creativity and search for new ways to do better. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, but each time we try.

[Utnorris]

What is your everyday overclock on your 4870X2?

Just 800/950 (750/900 stock), but it's about what I did with the 2 HD4850's percentage wise. Since I am not pushing more voltage through either setup the heat output really didn't increase in that sense. I admit I am not really pushing my cards, but the shear fact that temps were close between the too says something for itself.

[LockBreaker]

Sweet waterblock.

It would be nice to see how it performs compared to the Koolance-block (VID-487X2).

[screwtech02]

will this work on a 4850X2???

+1 on that. There ought to be a market for the 4850x2's also, or one would think so....

[Utnorris]

That one is an oddball video card since there is only one company producing them. The best solution will probably be 2 MCW60's or equivalent with heat sinks.

[LockBreaker]

Does the heatsink come included in the packaging?

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Does the heatsink come included in the packaging?

for the 2nd time in this thread, yes

[LockBreaker]

Sorry for asking then....

What types of accessories comes with the GPU-block? Maybe those are listed here before as well?

[rootz0r]

from the swiftech site...
Complete cooling system including water-block, heatsink, (2) 1/2" barbs, (2) plugs, thermal pads, Arctic Céramique thermal grease, mounting screws, installation guide

[Utnorris]

Well, I guess not everyone thinks the $160 price is worth it. For anyone looking at this block, Jab-tech has them at $140. I still think the XSPC or any of the Full Cover blocks are better, but I know some you will still want it, at least this way you can save a few dollars getting it.

[TomMich]

Hi all!
My account was validated today so I can post up my Caldera in Crossfire pics. I frequently visit this place but have never had an account. So, here I am.

Do I like the Caldera solution? Yes. Am I very biased towards Swiftech and only use their products. Yes. My GPU's idle at 29-33 degrees.

Thanks!
Tom

ps-the Caldera doesn't work on Asus's new Tri-Fan card. I went back to Sapphire. I'm glad I did. If anyone is interested how much better Sapphire builds their cards in regards to pasting and thermal pad contact, let me know.