4x1g full dimm WR DDR 617 & Micron 5BF Myth

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04-10-2006, 08:35 PM
Onepagebook

4x1g full dimm WR DDR 617 & Micron 5BF Myth

Hi all, after several days test and effort, now, when you see that thread topic,
you might be thinking about OPB is showing his cherry picked again now. However,
let me seriously tell you right now, this is 100% not cherry picked but just randomly selected
from the 30 pairs out of 100 pairs I have done for the SPD programming. I was quite surprised that
characteristics of Micron 5bf is totally different from the other memory modules. Initially, I was very very frustrated
when I saw Ozzimark can get over 290fsb 1:1 1t. For me, no matter how hard I tried,
I have never got pass 285fsb except use upper divider when I ran fx60 under single stage(cold bug).

Due to last time, some users also struggle and complain that their ram got weird spd just showing PC3200, so
that's why I got to do the QC and do the SPD. After get used into it, I figured out this IC is, well I can't say it's King of 2GB set, but
I strongly believe that all this results are based on the non-cherry picked and non-bias bench. If you really wanna say something,
that might be on my PSU or Venus. Well, but I tell you what, most of these pairs passed DDR600, 1:1, 3-3-3-3-7-12...
only required 2.78v~2.80v under ultra-D. Also, I found that the DS/DDS of Ultra-D is way more effective than Expert or Venus !!
but for instance if you wanna run 4x1g 2t , you gotta use Expert or Venus for sure. Let's go ahead and discuss all these myth of Micron 5BF.

Let's start from 2 dimm DDR600, Venus/Expert platform first:

Conditions:

Before we start, you will need to make sure, there is a beta bios 406 for all DFI nf4 series boards, go flash that bios first!!
Here I must appreciate Tony really did a great great job, this bios play a big big role of 5bf can "easily" get on toDDR600 with that unbelievible
tight parameters.
Basically, we can look at the picture below, honestly, I was thinking about ozzimark has mentioned on the 5bf thread about we can try 2t first,
so after I finished the SPD programming on the first pair, I set 300x11 under bios and certainly CPC option I set was disable. After I boot into windows
I also think if I want to run 2t, why don't I just have all the setting are the tightest waywithout probles; therefore, initially, I did not set TRFC as 12 just like you

see in the screen below. but I did set tras and icl as 8(cuz I don't want to jump up too much from 16cks) with TWTR as 1; and wow...it did not fail..:D
But we all know , you will need to run that several times for 1m to make sure it's right. During this moment, when it was runing, I intentionally switch the 2t

command from enable to disable (1t), and it also passed without any problem.I was really excited at that moment when I stared the 1t at the CPUZ 133 memory

timing confirmation. so then I keep those timing as refernce and try to get the paten on 5bf. Certainly, the best way to confirm is running every length of super

pi. so let's see here.

From this screeny, we can see from CPUZ, my primary parameters setting is 3-3-3-0-7-8; I at least ran 5 times by using this setting.
Please read through all the notes.
super pi 1m:

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...ddr600pi1m.jpg

2m, are you guys aware of what 2 timings I changed? Yes, I changed Tras to 2 and ICL back to 16clks; honestly,
256 really do nothing and even failed to complete calculation.

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...ddr600pi2m.jpg

Now, what about 8m? yup, I change TREF back to 3120(200mhz, 15.6us), Tras to 2 and then ICL as 0 clock; during this 8m running, I got couple
errors, such as " not exactly run" or "not convergent in SQR"...that all happened around the 6~7th iteration. Therefore I thought that 2.78 won't be enough for

running at DDR600 with those tight timing! (think about the TRFC as 12), so I restart and add from 2.84 to 2.87v(it's off about 0.04v compare with mbm5

detected value), , no wonder, it just running smoothly all the way end.

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...ddr600pi8m.jpg

Now, here is the insteresting part about 16m, when I finished 8m running, I accidentally thought, holy xxxx, maybe I might not have to give that vdimm for

more 0.03~0.05v, so I went back to check my setting and think if I get ICL relax a bit and set Tref as 100mhz/1.95us, I might have chance to do
16m finish. Alright , here we go, this result verified my assumption as well.

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...dr600pi16m.jpg

Now, it's the time to challenge the most difficult one though. Honestly, I got about 4 times fails before I understand the trick.;)

First of all, from the results and ideas above, we can apparently sort out that most timings on the a64tweakers table are basically fixed;
consequently, those variables related to our discussion are:

TREF, TRAS and ICL

Certainly, not just these 3 timings, before this step, you gotta completely understand some key factors, such as how to set DS/DDS, and remember, trrd can be

set as 3
as well as TWTR can be changed to 2 "in order to stablize a bit" (actually really not much! haha ); my concept is " Performance can NOT be hoding back due to

lack of stability."
THerefore, I changed ICL back to normal value 16, so of course I can't just backward, then I also put 2 as TRAS to balance that along with Tref switch to

133mhz, 1.95us to complete this 32m calculation.

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...r600pi32mm.jpg

** well, I still think I need to be fair to show the camera pictures, 4 of them. If anyone live closed to Columbus, You are more than welcome to pay me a visit

and ramdomly choose any two sticks , I can do my best to show you how to!

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...600pi32m01.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...600pi32m02.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...600pi32m03.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...600pi32m04.jpg

Now the CPUZ verified:(my 32m pic got verified number on that)

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...dr600cpuzv.jpg

**Also, we might want to check out about bench results from the Everest ultimate :

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...everestr01.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...everestr02.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...everestr03.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...everestr04.jpg

well, how about Opteron? To be contiuned...

************************************************** ****************************

Here are some results just verified what I said from above, ultra-D looks like no need that much vdimm and not that confused DS/DDS setting
than either Expert or Venus;)

before I post my 1m, 8m, 16m, and 32m, I also sure no problem to share the bios setting here:

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...dr600set01.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...dr600set02.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...dr600set03.jpg

actually, you can see the timings I used under ultra-D are even tighter then Venus ;)

1m:

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...r600opty1m.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...r600opty8m.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...600opty16m.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...600opty32m.jpg

So for the 2 dimm DDR600 1t , we now have rough idea how this ram is if you treat it correctly. let's see next, full dimm
4x 1gb on DDR617 stability test.

TO be next...

************************************************** ************************************************** *************************************

4Dimm 1g x4 fully stable for DDR617 ; current WR;)

Actually , you can see I was pretty closed to what I figured out the paten of 5bf later on, because what I thought at that moment of running 4 dimms
is this merely just for 2t timings, so I can let the timings as tight as it could be, so if you look at that carefully even DDR617 2t timing like that will not be too

bad though.:D

CPU verified:

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...dimmpi32mc.jpg

windows captured screeny:

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...4dimmpi32m.jpg

Digital camera pics , took during running .

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...17p32mdc01.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...17p32mdc02.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...17p32mdc03.jpg
http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...17p32mdc04.jpg

Again, hopefully, this will clear some confusion,!! If you want to play micron 5bf, you gotta put a lot of effort, I mean a lot. Seriously.

OPB
04-10-2006, 08:42 PM
Cpt Twitchy

Just insane numbers your putting up and a big thanks for helping everyone figure out how to set timings for 5bf. Congrats on the WR aswell :toast:

Tim
04-10-2006, 09:10 PM
[cTx]Philosophy

Wow 4g @ 617 is sick, I cant wait OPB...
Id like to see how the expert can do with 4 sticks as well, supposedly it can run 4 sticks @ 1t correct?
Im guessing 1T would be about 280ish if that..

Definately a TON of work youve put into these 5b F, hopefully this will help out some of the people here trying to acheive such milestones..

Also gratz on ANOTHER WR... blah blah blah
04-10-2006, 09:16 PM
cirthix

nice work as always, OPB
04-10-2006, 09:27 PM
Onepagebook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philosophy

Wow 4g @ 617 is sick, I cant wait OPB...
Id like to see how the expert can do with 4 sticks as well, supposedly it can run 4 sticks @ 1t correct?
Im guessing 1T would be about 280ish if that..

Definately a TON of work youve put into these 5b F, hopefully this will help out some of the people here trying to acheive such milestones..

Also gratz on ANOTHER WR... blah blah blah

the only 4dimm 1t is around 200mhz, it can't be over 205 I think:slap: :D
04-10-2006, 09:35 PM
[cTx]Philosophy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onepagebook

the only 4dimm 1t is around 200mhz, it can't be over 205 I think:slap: :D

I see, looks as if my asumption was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off then :P
Either way, nice effort for the cronus..
Their publicity is getting better every day..
04-11-2006, 03:39 AM
ozzimark

1 Attachment(s)

wow. i knew you've been busy lately, but.. :eek:

looks like i've got something to try now, see if i can get that last 3 mhz out of my sticks and hit 300mhz once and for all ;) :toast:

edit: 2T, but still. i'm having fun :)
04-11-2006, 12:21 PM
althes

very nice will have to try that on my venus
04-11-2006, 02:19 PM
MikalCarbine

Great results OPB

Is there an expert equiv to the 406 Ultra-D BIOS?
04-11-2006, 02:30 PM
Tony

Kevin

Not to put down your clock here but was you running odd divisor correct enabled?

If you were you are running the ram on a down clock, not unlike 180 mode.

Please check and confirm?
04-11-2006, 02:56 PM
ozzimark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

Kevin

Not to put down your clock here but was you running odd divisor correct enabled?

If you were you are running the ram on a down clock, not unlike 180 mode.

Please check and confirm?

what exactly does that do, round up the odd memory dividers to the nearest even one?

if this is the case, my results are incorrect :(

i just checked with everest, getting around 7000mb/s. seems more in line with 300mhz, so i suppose that my assumption is correct
04-11-2006, 03:08 PM
Tony

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzimark

what exactly does that do, round up the odd memory dividers to the nearest even one?

if this is the case, my results are incorrect :(

i just checked with everest, getting around 7000mb/s. seems more in line with 300mhz, so i suppose that my assumption is correct

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...30#post1389430
04-11-2006, 05:08 PM
bachus_anonym

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

Kevin
Not to put down your clock here but was you running odd divisor correct enabled?
If you were you are running the ram on a down clock, not unlike 180 mode.
Please check and confirm?

I think you're right, Tony...

This BIOS shot shows ODC as ENABLED so in fact memory is running at DDR540, not DDR600 :( I would assume (as he mentioned already) same goes for ozzimark's case and they both run ODD multiplier (x9 and x11) as well...
Oh well, I don't like that new option at all (Odd Divisor Correct) :(
04-11-2006, 06:53 PM
Onepagebook

what you talking about?:D
then I think Michael, you got to understand 2 things.
1. Also correct CPUZ is wrong, so email Franck
2. Regardless that is NOT DDR600, according you said is DDR540 and who said it can't be DDR500 before?;)
I understand what you mean very clearly;)

Oh, I forgot to say,
I can run 329 bios with DDR600 as well, want me to run that?
How many photo or video tape? up to you
or you wanna come to Columbus Ohio?;)
04-11-2006, 07:13 PM
thunderstruck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onepagebook

what you talking about?:D
then I think Michael, you got to understand 2 things.
1. Also correct CPUZ is wrong, so email Franck
2. Regardless that is NOT DDR600, according you said is DDR540 and who said it can't be DDR500 before?;)
I understand what you mean very clearly;)

Oh, I forgot to say,
I can run 329 bios with DDR600 as well, want me to run that?
How many photo or video tape? up to you
or you wanna come to Columbus Ohio?;)

If you can run with that bios which doesn't have the ODC option, then congrats! GJ!
04-11-2006, 07:47 PM
[cTx]Philosophy

This I wanna see.
So 308 woth this option would make the ram = what exactly, im a bit confused here..
would the multi round up or down?
04-11-2006, 08:30 PM
LiQU!D

Mmm bandwidth, give me?
04-27-2006, 02:19 PM
SPivX

Hi OPB,

i tried your settings and got to DDR600, but this was with ODC on i later verified. With ODC off and multi 9x, the mem runs REAL DDR600 and doesn't make it into windows. I would really like to know how you succeed in getting DDR600 on any bios without ODC option.

thanks!

Simon-Paul
05-01-2006, 02:10 PM
SPivX

* bump *

OPB, could you please test again with newest CPU-Z? You'll see that your mem doesn't run CPU/11 = 300, but CPU/12 (~275).

I think most of us would really appreciate if you show us REAL DDR600!

go go!
05-01-2006, 03:58 PM
JasonDTM

OPB is in Florida until tommorow or the next day..
05-01-2006, 04:00 PM
ozzimark

and i am *certain* he knows that the ODC option changed the speed and didn't show in programs ;)
05-02-2006, 02:29 AM
SPivX

then what's the point of this whole thread? :stick:
05-02-2006, 03:18 PM
thunderstruck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPivX

then what's the point of this whole thread? :stick:

Hehe, I don't know if he was sarcastic or what, but either way, it isn't good.:(
05-02-2006, 04:45 PM
KiD0M4N

http://www.ocxtreme.org/onepagebook/...dr600set02.jpg

So ODC was indeed enabled.

Guys start posting A64Info shots instead of A64Tweaker.

OPB.... :stick:
05-02-2006, 05:17 PM
ozzimark

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidoman

So ODC was indeed enabled.

Guys start posting A64Info shots instead of A64Tweaker.

OPB.... :stick:

the new cpu-z, 1.33.1, correctly reports speed with ODC on now.. in part due to OPB's testings. also, if the thread is read:... ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPB

2. Regardless that is NOT DDR600, according you said is DDR540 and who said it can't be DDR500 before?
I understand what you mean very clearly

SPivX, we didn't realize at first the implications of ODC, and posted the results (which happened to be wrong), with excitement. honest mistake, nothing more. :toast:
05-02-2006, 05:19 PM
Vapor

CPUz 1.33.1 correctly detects the ODC register.

Another way is just always use even dividers ;)

EDIT: ozzimark beat me :fight:
05-02-2006, 05:55 PM
HousERaT

incredible job there Kevin..... congrats on the WR. What's the likelyhood a normal overclocker could do that? (not like you're abnormal or anything):D
05-02-2006, 06:56 PM
VictorWang

the ultimate DDR1 @.@
05-02-2006, 08:16 PM
bachus_anonym

OK guys! I think it's the time to clarify something here... OPB is using the latest BIOS with Odd Divisor Correct option Enabled in BIOS. It has been mentioned few times in this thread but I guess, most of the folks did not catch that yet...

All of the results in this thread ARE NOT what they seem to be. It's not 300MHz but 270Mhz (multi x9) or 275MHz (multi x11). Also, it's not 4DIMM @ 308MHz (CPU/11), but 283Mhz (CPU/12), which is still very good anyway. I feel that Kevin might have a set of RAM that will do that, but it's definetely not in this thread. I'm sure, If OPB has new results, then he will post in in a new thread.

If you need more information about the option in question, please read Odd divisor correct and what it does.. Did Kevin know what the ODC option in BIOS did? We think he did... Why did he not say anything in the first place? We don't know... Anyway.. I feel this thread needs to be closed as it is misleading to the public, despite it's great value as far as memory tweaking. Therefore, closed it is...