Another Redline death?

Very odd thing happened, when i went to tweak some timings on 2*512 of redline, rebooted and the whole system powered off, i hadnt realised i left voltage low and clocked too high. So i restarted and heard the long beeps, checked the leds and was saying ram. Now i can only boot one stick in slot 1 (yellow furthest from cpu) and any other wont. Also the second stick wont boot at all, on its own or in dual/single with the other. Anyone had anything like this. Looks like another mushkin rma coming up.
amd 3500+ claw
dfi nf4 ultra-D
2*512 muchkin 4000 redline
ocz 520 powerstream.

Tried clearing CMOS?

Yes, cleared cmos etc, had to stick in some other ram to set voltages to normal (well.........for redline) and still no go, all other settings @ auto in bios so stock timings.

Def sounds like they died...weird.

Well if I was you I would leave the stick somewhere cool for 24 hours, then reflash the bios to 510-2 615 618-2 623-2.

Or load default settting with good stick enter bios up Vdimm, Load into windows then shut down. Dont unplug power cord put the other stick in see if it boots.

I have a strong feeling that 90% of so called dead sticks is infact the board ie "so called cold boot"

So these DFI NF4s are killing UTT with lower voltage now....lol

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Originally Posted by TMM

So these DFI NF4s are killing UTT with lower voltage now....lol

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IF UTT DRAM die with low voltage on DFI NF4 , apparently it's not the board kill the dram because the board will never supply high voltage dram ... It's the UTT casue the root problem ... No matter what kind of UTT chip is used , these UTT module failure rate is much higher than pre-tested chip !!!

I don't believe that 95% of the cases here are dead sticks, just board voltage issues.

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Originally Posted by fareastgq

I don't believe that 95% of the cases here are dead sticks, just board voltage issues.

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Most of them have cold boot problem first , and need more and more voltage to boot up after several weeks ... And finally they die ... I don't believe it's the board voltage problem ...

You have to boot up your DFI with some good old generic ram. Then once you get a post set your timmings again and save your cmos. Then put your redlines back in and they will work

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Originally Posted by wtz54321

IF UTT DRAM die with low voltage on DFI NF4 , apparently it's not the board kill the dram because the board will never supply high voltage dram ... It's the UTT casue the root problem ... No matter what kind of UTT chip is used , these UTT module failure rate is much higher than pre-tested chip !!!

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that is true, but hardly any people are "killing" the UTT on boards other then the DFI NF4s :s - which leads me to think that it's something more then just voltage

I think it's the unstable voltage the DFIs have at the 4V setting, probably am wrong though.

swap the stick around and boot again.

Ive tried every single possible placement for the 2 sticks together and all 4 for each stick, only one stick will boot in one slot. I was running @3.2volts at the time and ive never used the 4v jumper, ive always jacked up my 3.3v line and run off that.

Do the Redline death phenomenon happens on DFI NF4 boards which were 4V/5V "jumpered"? Let's say that if I had a MSI K8N Neo2 or DFI NF4 @ 3V, I'm safe?

I would like to know this before I buy my Redline's.

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Originally Posted by TMM

that is true, but hardly any people are "killing" the UTT on boards other then the DFI NF4s :s - which leads me to think that it's something more then just voltage

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Absoultely not true ... How many board out there has VDIMM higher than 2.9V when they are out of the factory ? MSI , No ... ASUS , No ... Gigabyte , No ... ABIT , no , until the V2.0 of AN8 and SLI version has 3.55V build in ... A lof of the users here use DFI NF4 board to overclock and the board is one of few board with VDIMM higher than 2.9V without mod ... That's the main reason you see most of the DIMM dead on this board ... But it does not mean that the board kill the DRAM ... If the board supply unstable voltage to kill the board using 4V jumper , there won't be any DRAM dead with 4V jumper set in 3.3V mode ... And there will be many old BH5/CH5 dead case here ... But most of the dead case is UTT DRAM , and these dram die on other board with DRAM voltage no higher than 3.3V ... It's almost impossible that the board is the only reason to kill these memory !!! The problem of the root cause is UTT DRAM , not what kind of UTT DRAM chip is used on the module !!! That's why these chip is called UTT chip and much cheaper when the module maker buy these chip !!! Unless the module maker can show us some evidence that how they proceed their burn in process to find out those quickly failure chip among all these UTT DRAM chip they buy , I don't believe all these UTT DRAM will not die even with 2.5V in any board ...

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Originally Posted by Vincentvega18

Ive tried every single possible placement for the 2 sticks together and all 4 for each stick, only one stick will boot in one slot. I was running @3.2volts at the time and ive never used the 4v jumper, ive always jacked up my 3.3v line and run off that.

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As I said before ... The root cause is not the voltage or the board ... These dead module contain those bad chip that will fail quickly among all the UTT DRAM chip ... You apply high voltage and accelerate the burn in time before the dram fail ... But it's not the voltage or the board kill the dram ... It's the DRAM itself is not a good one , which should be sorting out in general IC testing process ... But now they are UTT chip , and these chips are not sorting out before they put on the module ... Unless these module maker can show us some evidence how they do the burn in process to find out these quickly fail chip ... I believe the actually root cause of these dead module is UTT problem , not the board , and not the voltage ...

Used to agree with this, until I started getting cold boot problems and aparently completly dead sticks, boot screen hanging on mother board.
Vdimm voltages wrong @ start up Vcore voltages the same. Then flashing a bios makes the completly dead stick work again. I suggest the issue is much more to do with the board than you/some think. I also suspect alot of so called dead sticks will work on other boards, or bios

I hate mushkin, The GSKILL GH UTT RAM is confirmed by DUMO that the cold boot issue is not a problem with those sticks

Sadly one of my redlines dies this morning :( Bah, looks like it's time to RMA...

Defend the DFI mobo, we must.
Have you come to realize we haven't heard people complaining about dead UTT (OCZ Plat Rev.2) with DDR booster much at all compared to whats been going on? Noticed how there are no report of major issue on NF3 setups despite to fact popularness of UTT from that time frame? (anyone using UTT with less than 3.2v? hello?)
But all logics shall fail and we shall defend DFI... :stick:
I will present my case to you again.
How can 4 sticks of UTT die at exact same time if it is bad memory? Did I just get 4 mushkin blue that are bad which decided to die together at exact time? Let's see... what are the chances....

With all these redline deaths, can anybody comment on the easy/difficulty of Mushkin RMA's?

I'm going to find out today... i was overvolting them, but why did only one die?

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Originally Posted by jiff

Used to agree with this, until I started getting cold boot problems and aparently completly dead sticks, boot screen hanging on mother board.
Vdimm voltages wrong @ start up Vcore voltages the same. Then flashing a bios makes the completly dead stick work again. I suggest the issue is much more to do with the board than you/some think. I also suspect alot of so called dead sticks will work on other boards, or bios

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I really don't know how you think it's the BIOS PROBLEM ... The new beta bios did solve the cold boot problem , but that's because the bios will program high dram voltage to boot up these " DEAD " stcik ... That does not mean that the DRAM is working as normal one ... You must be able to use the DRAM when you first get these module , and the DRAM must be able to boot at 2.6V ... But after several weeks of operation , these so called dead stick need more and more bootup voltage , apparently these module start to act strange , and the dram characteristic is far from normal one ... The bios is the workaround , but it's not the bios solve the dram not able to work @ 2.6V ... Since there are many dead stick die only with 3.2V or so with 3.3V jumper location , it's not the voltage kill these dram ... It's these dram chip are actually " Fail Quickly " ones ... These chip should already been sorting out before they put on the module , but the UTT chip did not have this process ... And the testing cost is saved , that's why the UTT chip is cheap when they ship to module maker !!!

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Originally Posted by jinu117

Defend the DFI mobo, we must.
Have you come to realize we haven't heard people complaining about dead UTT (OCZ Plat Rev.2) with DDR booster much at all compared to whats been going on? Noticed how there are no report of major issue on NF3 setups despite to fact popularness of UTT from that time frame? (anyone using UTT with less than 3.2v? hello?)
But all logics shall fail and we shall defend DFI... :stick:
I will present my case to you again.
How can 4 sticks of UTT die at exact same time if it is bad memory? Did I just get 4 mushkin blue that are bad which decided to die together at exact time? Let's see... what are the chances....

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No , we should not defend DFI mobo ... If it's the board that supply wrong voltage to kill the DRAM , and the UTT chip is the victim ... Why should anybody defend DFI mobo ? But we are trying to find out the truth ... And I have already collect enough information to tell you it's not the board or the voltage to kill the DRAM ... It's the UTT DRAM problem ... Not the CH5 problem ... Once the module is made from UTT chip , no matter these UTT chip is made from winbond , samgsung , or any other company ... The failure rate of these module is much higher than " Pre-Tested chip " made module !!! It's not possible for the module maker to avoid the typical UTT problem unless they can do the same thing as IC testing company to find out those " fail quickly chip " ... I don't know if OCZ or mushkin can show us some picture of their burn in process of how to find out these " fail quickly chip " ... If they can provide us some information about this , we can find more and more possible reason how these dram module are dead !!!

I have the same opinion about UTT ram.
They work fine (initially) ,but fairly large percentage of IC's die over a longer period. Good testing processes weeds out these "weak" IC's...
Clearly , this isn't happening and that's the real issue , IMO.
Also explains all the posts about failing UTT ram...
You don't hear about old Winbond BH-5/BH-6/CH-5 sticks failing , do you ?

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Originally Posted by Jaco

I have the same opinion about UTT ram.
They work fine (initially) ,but fairly large percentage of IC's die over a longer period. Good testing processes weeds out these "weak" IC's...
Clearly , this isn't happening and that's the real issue , IMO.
Also explains all the posts about failing UTT ram...
You don't hear about old Winbond BH-5/BH-6/CH-5 sticks failing , do you ?

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There are some case reported , but less than 5 if I remember correctly ... Most of the dead sticks are all UTT sticks ... Some from OCZ , some from mushkin and others ... They die in various kind of voltage ... Lots of the case are reported in the DFI board with dram voltage > 3.0v , jumper in 3.3V or 5V ... Also there are case reported in other board + booster or vmod ... There are also case reported using the old NF2 board with high memory voltage ... If it's the voltage or the board kill these UTT stick , we should only see a common point of these case ... But the results now are way too much difference between them ... These stick are dead in various kind of platform , voltage and different chipset ... It's not possible that it's the voltage or platform or the board to kill these dram ... And what I found told me that this kind of situation is a typical problem of UTT chip maded module ... In the first , I think UTT is the recent thing ... By doing some research , I realize that these UTT chip are everywhere in the market ... But in the past , this type of module is so called downgrade module ... Just check my thread about the detail information ... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=65478

Was a cold boot indeed, took me about half an hour to sort it in the end.......so is this a board problem then, im assuming it is.

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Originally Posted by Vincentvega18

Was a cold boot indeed, took me about half an hour to sort it in the end.......so is this a board problem then, im assuming it is.

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What ? OHG ... Let me explain once again ... It's not possible that the problem is the board !!! I think you must be able to use this dram to work under 2.6V to boot for daily usage when you first receive the dram ... But after some weeks or so , this dram start to degrade in it's electric characteristic and require more and more voltage to boot up ... This is not good !!! To be more precisely , we can call these chip as " Faulty ones " , because these chips are design to work under 2.6V ... If it's the board problem , then your dram should be able to boot in other platform ... If it's the board kill the dram , then we shall not see any other dead UTT case in any other platform ... You know what ? By searching around the internet , I found that almost every DDR I RAM is spec @ 3.6V absolutely maximum rating !!! If there is any dead case in DFI NF4 is based on 3.3V jumper location , it's not possible for the board to supply dram voltage any higher than 3.3V ... But now we got many reports here that the dram is dead under 3.2V or so when he only set the jumper @ 3.3V location , no matter what kind of situation happened , it's not possible for the dram voltage exceed the power source --> 3.3V ... Voltage does not kill these dram !!! The problem is UTT itself , ok ????

honestly there is not enough information anywhere to make a real decision that is fact. However, ppl can post their situation and other ppl can come to their own conclusions, confusing yes, but at least your aware.

Simply check this ... Even samgsung TCCX chip is 3.6V Maximum rating ...

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...8x16_rev13.pdf

http://www.nanya.com/attach_file/NTC-512M-B-DDR.pdf , Nanya ... 3.6V maximum rating !!!

http://www.elpida.com/pdfs/E0539E10.pdf ,elpida , 3.6V Maximum Rating !!!

http://www.hynix.com/datasheet/pdf/d...TP(Rev1.0).pdf , Hynix , 3.6V Maximum Rating

http://www.promos.com.tw/website/htm...C2512404SA.pdf , Promos , 3.6V maximum rating !!!

You are ignoring single glaringly important problem here...
4 STICKS DEAD EXACTLY AT SAME TIME.
Now tell me, all 4 bad sticks happened to die at exact same time?
Take my comment as whole not parts.

PS) whoever was asking about mushkin RMA, not as fast as OCZ but very courteous, informative and up to date RMA policy.

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Originally Posted by wtz54321

No , we should not defend DFI mobo ... If it's the board that supply wrong voltage to kill the DRAM , and the UTT chip is the victim ... Why should anybody defend DFI mobo ? But we are trying to find out the truth ... And I have already collect enough information to tell you it's not the board or the voltage to kill the DRAM ... It's the UTT DRAM problem ... Not the CH5 problem ... Once the module is made from UTT chip , no matter these UTT chip is made from winbond , samgsung , or any other company ... The failure rate of these module is much higher than " Pre-Tested chip " made module !!! It's not possible for the module maker to avoid the typical UTT problem unless they can do the same thing as IC testing company to find out those " fail quickly chip " ... I don't know if OCZ or mushkin can show us some picture of their burn in process of how to find out these " fail quickly chip " ... If they can provide us some information about this , we can find more and more possible reason how these dram module are dead !!!

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Originally Posted by jinu117

You are ignoring single glaringly important problem here...
4 STICKS DEAD EXACTLY AT SAME TIME.
Now tell me, all 4 bad sticks happened to die at exact same time?
Take my comment as whole not parts.

PS) whoever was asking about mushkin RMA, not as fast as OCZ but very courteous, informative and up to date RMA policy.

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I don't know what happened to your dram or the board , but most of the reported case here only die with one of them ... Most of the dead case are 1 stick fail to boot and another stick is ok ... I can not say that no single DFI nf4 board will kill the memory , maybe your board is a bad one ... You are the only guy that I have seen here have 4 dead stick at the same time ...

I'm guessing bad board, I have had my vdimm at 3.4 for a while, no deaths yet

Just my .02 on this, take it for what you will:

I received a gig of Redline from Mushkin (for review) in late May. I didn't have the DFI board at that time, but I used the modules (at 2.7v) for well over a month. During that period, I tested them / ran them extensively on both the Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI and the ASUS A8N-SLI. They kept both systems absolutely stable under load and under heavy testing.

Last week my DFI NF4 board arrived. I fired up the FX-57 and ran another round of tests, again using Redline. After a week the modules were still completely stable, and still running perfectly at 2.7v.

I then flipped the 4v jumper, increased voltage to 3.3v (the maximum Mushkin recommends for the Redline 3500) and began testing the modules for latency and clockspeed. I hit 2-2-2-5 at 218, and 2.5 -3-3-6 at 250 MHz, still at 3.3v. Considering this was only PC3500 memory, I was quite happy with that.

I tested overclocking stability and headroom for about 3 days total. I then shut the system down for about two days.

Last night I turned the system back on to check a few things while working on the review, and discovered the RAM was no longer stable in Prime95. MemTest86+ confirms a damaged block on one DIMM at the 256.6 MB mark. The DIMM in question was in DIMM slot 3 (I was using DIMMs 1 & 3). I've run MemTest86+ on two separate systems--the memory in question is definitely damaged, and no BIOS flash on earth is going to cure it. The only way to stop the errors from appearing is to drop to around 133 MHz, at absurdedly high latencies.

Here's what I know:

Could it have been the memory? Yes. But the RAM was perfectly stable for over a month, even when stress-tested. Within four days of running on the DFI board, even though voltage never officially exceeded 3.3v, and the RAM was never swapped, it blew.

Given the multiplicity of issues reported with DFI's 4v setting, I can't say I see this as Mushkin's fault--at least not yet.

I can say for sure it is the motherboards fault, Nvidia chipset based ones are killing ram on the Intel side too.

My P5ND2 killed my OCZ PC4200 and killed my 600ADJ. It killed the ram with the system off. There was a surge of power when I went to swap the ram out and it killed both sticks.

One of my friends purchased the P5ND2 from Frys and it killed his Corsair's. I know now because I had to lend ram until payday. Im cringing now as if they kill once they can kill again.

I went to reboot without SLI enabled and it took out power supply.

Fugger,

What motherboard would you recommend for high voltages (3.0-3.5v)? I want to review this Redline, and I was happy with the memory itself--but I have no idea what motherboard to recommend.

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Originally Posted by Dputiger

Just my .02 on this, take it for what you will:

I received a gig of Redline from Mushkin (for review) in late May. I didn't have the DFI board at that time, but I used the modules (at 2.7v) for well over a month. During that period, I tested them / ran them extensively on both the Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI and the ASUS A8N-SLI. They kept both systems absolutely stable under load and under heavy testing.

Last week my DFI NF4 board arrived. I fired up the FX-57 and ran another round of tests, again using Redline. After a week the modules were still completely stable, and still running perfectly at 2.7v.

I then flipped the 4v jumper, increased voltage to 3.3v (the maximum Mushkin recommends for the Redline 3500) and began testing the modules for latency and clockspeed. I hit 2-2-2-5 at 218, and 2.5 -3-3-6 at 250 MHz, still at 3.3v. Considering this was only PC3500 memory, I was quite happy with that.

I tested overclocking stability and headroom for about 3 days total. I then shut the system down for about two days.

Last night I turned the system back on to check a few things while working on the review, and discovered the RAM was no longer stable in Prime95. MemTest86+ confirms a damaged block on one DIMM at the 256.6 MB mark. The DIMM in question was in DIMM slot 3 (I was using DIMMs 1 & 3). I've run MemTest86+ on two separate systems--the memory in question is definitely damaged, and no BIOS flash on earth is going to cure it. The only way to stop the errors from appearing is to drop to around 133 MHz, at absurdedly high latencies.

Here's what I know:

Could it have been the memory? Yes. But the RAM was perfectly stable for over a month, even when stress-tested. Within four days of running on the DFI board, even though voltage never officially exceeded 3.3v, and the RAM was never swapped, it blew.

Given the multiplicity of issues reported with DFI's 4v setting, I can't say I see this as Mushkin's fault--at least not yet.

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It's not the voltage or the board kill the ram !!! It's the UTT problem ... With those good UTT chip , they can handle more than 3.6V for a long time ... But bad UTT chip , they are ok for a certain period , after that time , it will start to perform bad !!! ... The industrial standard is 1000hrs of operation ... And you can use high temp and high voltage to accelerate the time before these bad UTT chip start to degrade in it's spec !!! You never use high voltage in the previous two board for more than 2.8V , so these bad UTT chip still ok because the time is not coming yet !!! But you use high voltage to stress it and accelerate the time before it start to degrade it's capability !!! These bad UTT chip are those chip that have high failure rate in the first 1000 hrs of operation ... In standard chip spec , these chips will be sorting out and never been put in the module !!! But they are UTT now , and those bad ones are not sorting out and put into your module !!! You use high voltage , it die fast ... But even without high voltage , it will be dead after a longer period !!! And this is a typical UTT module sympton !!!

WTF!, today my second stick also died... wats up with this crap? Well, atleast i can send them both out in the same RMA box... this sucks i thought the XP4000 can run up to 3.5v, is my DDR booster overfeeding them? DMM reads 3.48. I ran them at 3.7 for a few days under serious memtesting.. they don't even have a week on them how can they die so soon?

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Originally Posted by eBoy0

WTF!, today my second stick also died... wats up with this crap? Well, atleast i can send them both out in the same RMA box... this sucks i thought the XP4000 can run up to 3.5v, is my DDR booster overfeeding them? DMM reads 3.48. I ran them at 3.7 for a few days under serious memtesting.. they don't even have a week on them how can they die so soon?

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Trust Me !!! I am now 99.99% confident that the root cause of the dram death case is UTT problem itself !!! We did not see so many dram death case before !!! Even there is fault design K8 motherboard out there that will supply wrong DRAM voltage spike to kill the K8 CPU , we did not see any DRAM death case because of that board !!! But now with UTT DRAM , there are so many death case here ... If it's the fault design of the DFI NF4 board , we should only see dead DRAM in this board !!! But there are many other platform has this UTT death problem ...

ive had twinmos speed premium die on a DFI UT nf3 250GB if it helps at all

it was at 3.6v

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Originally Posted by eBoy0

WTF!, today my second stick also died... wats up with this crap? Well, atleast i can send them both out in the same RMA box... this sucks i thought the XP4000 can run up to 3.5v, is my DDR booster overfeeding them? DMM reads 3.48. I ran them at 3.7 for a few days under serious memtesting.. they don't even have a week on them how can they die so soon?

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if you thought they could run up to 3.5v, why did you feed them 3.7v? Better hope Mushkin doesn't find out you feed 3.7v through them.


On another note, when I first got DFI board I killed a couple of sticks of UTT ram. Since then, and after practicing some methodology that has been listed in some of the OCZ VX and Mushkin position statement threads, I haven't had any die.

Personally I think 50-75% of the problem is board issue. I Think about 10-20% is just nature of UTT ram, and no way to get around that unless manufacturers test these modules more, which will raise prices, and everyone would complain. Then I think about 25% or so is user error. I think people are spiking too much voltage, not reading information that is widely posted about how to setup and maintain the DFI when setup for 3.4v+ operation etc.... Or using too many volts. or whatever.

Fugger: I hadn't heard of the Nvidia boards killing off DDR2, good to know though so I don't get one :O :slapass:

Guys. as an engineer I need to point out that not only is the Vdimm important....and most of the DDR's have 3.6V ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM ratings (since the rating is based on the silicon wafer material and feature size)... but Vref/Vtt is important and the relationship between them.

Vref/Vtt needs to be 1/2 Vdimm(Vdd-Vddq) and if it diverges from this too far it can lead to failure. The chip is designed for Vref being 1/2 Vdimm and if Vref is "drooping" along with Vtt, then it is possible to break the rating on the MAXIMUM allowed voltage differential between Vref and Vdimm (Vdd/Vddq).

So it is possible the Vtt issue we see could have ramifications beyond just crashing Prime.

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Originally Posted by uwackme

Guys. as an engineer I need to point out that not only is the Vdimm important....and most of the DDR's have 3.6V ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM ratings (since the rating is based on the silicon wafer material and feature size)... but Vref/Vtt is important and the relationship between them.

Vref/Vtt needs to be 1/2 Vdimm(Vdd-Vddq) and if it diverges from this too far it can lead to failure. The chip is designed for Vref being 1/2 Vdimm and if Vref is "drooping" along with Vtt, then it is possible to break the rating on the MAXIMUM allowed voltage differential between Vref and Vdimm (Vdd/Vddq).

So it is possible the Vtt issue we see could have ramifications beyond just crashing Prime.

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If this is true , how do you explain that there are many other dead case in other platform including NF2/NF3 ? IF it's the wrong voltage design of this DFI NF4 board , we should only see that dead dram case in this board no matter what kind of voltage design error to kill the dram ! But there are case reported in Old NF2 , NF3 with 3.3V Mod , NF4 with 3.3V Mod , 5V jumper Mode , And other board with booster ? Is that all these board all have wrong design in VTT circuit ???

the new DFI bios did not solve any cold boot ram issue or vdimm.

I got rid of my mushkin and went back to GSKILL thank god

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Originally Posted by Unrealcpu

the new DFI bios did not solve any cold boot ram issue or vdimm.

I got rid of my mushkin and went back to GSKILL thank god

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The root cause of the cold boot problem is some chip in these UTT dram start to degrade in its electrical spec , they are original design to work under 2.6V SPD timing ... And I believe that all the user are able to use all the DIMM under 2.6V SPD timing in the beginning ... But after these bad chip start to degrade , they will need more and more voltage to work under 200mhz , spd timing ... Using the new beta bios is the workaround which set higher dram working voltage when bios detecting the dram ... But it does not mean that these bad chip is ok and the problem is solved !!! So ther are case reported that the beta bios solved his problem , period ... When these bad chips start to degrade once again , they will need even more bootup voltage ... If the bios did not set even higher bootup voltage , the cold boot problem came back once again !!! And tell me how could this be possible that it's the board supply the wrong voltage that kill the dram especially there are dead case is working with DDR booster or 3.3V mod ?

WTZ, mushkin tests the modules you know? They have their very own binning procedure and facilities to do so.

It is not (soly) the chips themselves. I can understand some chips would slip through the net and stop working after a while, but this doesn't explain the mass deaths. I mean look it up on these forums. Or on muskin forum/webby, they have a own speed binnen procces which is in my opinion decent to say the least. They could do a lot less.

I suggest you don't look for the problem soly with the chips

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Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

WTZ, mushkin tests the modules you know? They have their very own binning procedure and facilities to do so.

It is not (soly) the chips themselves. I can understand some chips would slip through the net and stop working after a while, but this doesn't explain the mass deaths. I mean look it up on these forums. Or on muskin forum/webby, they have a own speed binnen procces which is in my opinion decent to say the least. They could do a lot less.

I suggest you don't look for the problem soly with the chips

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If mushkin or OCZ can show us some pic or the detail about how these chip are tested , this will clarify the problem of UTT chip immediately !!! But we did not see any thing detail about this until now !!!

Of course these module will pass the functional test !!! Do you know every UTT chip is functional from the FAB ? Do you know there is much more thing need to do to standard chip testing compare to UTT chip ? Please take a look at my thread about the industrial standard of how dram chip are tested and sorting out these bad chips ... It's almost impossible for module maker to do anything like that !!!

Take a look at this first ...
http://www.valueram.com/europe/newsl...s.asp#question

And read my thread about some industrial information about chip testing procedure !!! You will realize the main problem is UTT chip total quality problem !!!

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=65478

I only see a couple deaths here or there on platforms other than DFI.

That said, once I followed proper procedure I haven't had any problems with Redline, OCZ or G.Skill UTT.

Personally, I think this whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. While it is quite irritating that these issues are present. These are certainly super hiperformance modules and do take some care in running. I would not recommend these for the novice, but with proper care and use, they are damm damm damm fast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JNav89GT

I only see a couple deaths here or there on platforms other than DFI.

That said, once I followed proper procedure I haven't had any problems with Redline, OCZ or G.Skill UTT.

Personally, I think this whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. While it is quite irritating that these issues are present. These are certainly super hiperformance modules and do take some care in running. I would not recommend these for the novice, but with proper care and use, they are damm damm damm fast.

---

Since there is other dram dead case other than DFI board , it means that the total UTT dram quality is questionable ... No matter what kind of DRAM voltage mod is used in any other platform , it's hard for these board supply dram voltage higher than 3.6V , and this is below the DRAM spec 3.6V maximum rating ~~~ But the DRAM is still die in these platform !!! It can explain that voltage is not the main key reason that cause these dram to non-bootable !!!

I think people are vdimm happy, and put the volts on too high. I've had my UTT at 3.4v for a long time, and nothign seems to be degrading, but I'm not about to raise it to 3.7v to find out what the limit is, I'm already happy with 255mhz 2-2-2-5, whats the extra 10-20 mhz, and risk killing my ram?

as I have stated before I believe a small percentage of the problem is chip related and more % of board and or user related.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JNav89GT

as I have stated before I believe a small percentage of the problem is chip related and more % of board and or user related.

---

50/50 % ? 20/80 % ? 80/20% ? It's hard to tell ... From what I have read and know , it will be 90% or chip problem and 10% or other reason ... But if mushkin or OCZ can show us something detail about how their chip is tested , the problem will not be the chip because they did sorting out these bad chips before being put into these module ... Until now , I don't believe they have done it ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wtz54321

Please take a look at my thread about the industrial standard of how dram chip are tested and sorting out these bad chips ... It's almost impossible for module maker to do anything like that !!!

---

Take a deep breath :) Callllllllllllllllllllllllllmmmmmmmmmm....

I suggest you read what I said in your thread, because your statement above is pure :banana:... the ONLY thing that can not be done at the packaged part or DIMM level is visual inspection of the die (saw cuts, bond wires, etc.). ALL electrical testing can be done... in fact the parts can be tested more thoroughly than the "standard IC testing' done for screened parts if one wishes to.

Quote:

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And read my thread about some industrial information about chip testing procedure !!! You will realize the main problem is UTT chip total quality problem !!!

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=65478

---

I completely disagree with your conclusion. As far as failures of some brands of UTT on 'other' platforms... what is the percentage? Any idea? You find one or two? And what is the percentage that occur on one board in particular? Without doubt some smaller percentage is a result of chips, but it is less than other causes IMO. Here's my thoughts as to the 'why':
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/show...&postcount=690


Peace :toast:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EMC2

Take a deep breath :) Callllllllllllllllllllllllllmmmmmmmmmm....

I suggest you read what I said in your thread, because your statement above is pure :banana:... the ONLY thing that can not be done at the packaged part or DIMM level is visual inspection of the die (saw cuts, bond wires, etc.). ALL electrical testing can be done... in fact the parts can be tested more thoroughly than the "standard IC testing' done for screened parts if one wishes to.



I completely disagree with your conclusion. As far as failures of some brands of UTT on 'other' platforms... what is the percentage? Any idea? You find one or two? And what is the percentage that occur on one board in particular? Without doubt some smaller percentage is a result of chips, but it is less than other causes IMO. Here's my thoughts as to the 'why':
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/show...&postcount=690


Peace :toast:

---

No , I think it's you should tell me about how many percent of other platform that is working their dram under 3.3V or above compare to DFI NF4 board !!! There is no single board out there support dram voltage higher than 3.0V except ABIT AN8 2.0 or AN8 SLI ... But there is few people here using the two board ...

Simply tell me if it's the fault design of the board that kill the dram , should we see CPU memory controller dead as well ... And should we see any other motherboard case that has UTT dead DRAM on it ...

Just show me something you know about chip testing procedure and how these chip are treated in standard ic testing company !!! Especially the burn in process and the burn in machine in module level !!! Sorry , but I don't believe that module maker will send these chip to do the chip level burn in testing before these chip are put into the production line until they show me some detail information or picture ... I have already said that I have a friend working in ic testing company ... I ask him about the enviroment testing standard , sorry but the anwser I got from him is far different from the ocz and mushkin testing process in the post you refer to ... Unless these module maker can show me something about how they sorting out these bad chips , I still believe 99% percent of the dead case is standard UTT problem but not the board or the voltage ...

believe what you will, but tbh all I think your doing is fanning the flames on some giant UTT conspiracy.

What OCZ and Mushkin, and other manufacturers have done is found and binned out an IC that can offer incredible performances. Something we thought we would never see, look at posts 1+ year ago and what people where paying for BH-5 that did 240+ in 1GB kits. Now we can get the same memory, binned alot higher for us, at $150-225.

I have only seen a couple of failures on other boards than the DFI, I have seen ALOT of "my redline died" posts only to be seen later in thread that they were in fact NOT dead, but experiencing the "cold boot" issue.

So tell my how OCZ or Mushkin is supposed to test each stick of ram for extended periods and still sell the stix for acceptable margins. This is a business to them and they won't continue to offer advanced modules if we in the community :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: and complain about every niggle. Certainly, the true deaths of UTT are worrisome, but thankfully Mushkin and I think maybe even OCZ have addressed alot of the concerns with official statements on how to run these dimms safely. Problem is that the search button or actually reading these posts seems to be "too troublesome" for some people

enough said!

If you think Mushkin or OCZ is going to describe their testing process in an open forums I think your stoned. I could be wrong, but I would think that is something they want to keep to themselves and not let their competitors know.

i have been trying to set up 2 new A64 FOLDing rigs (24/7) @ home for over a month...

rig #1) DFI NF4 ultraD, 3500 Venice, XP-90C/nado, OCZ 600W, OCZ "DFI special PC5000" TCC5, ATI X850xt

rig #2) MSI K8t Neo2 (VIA chipset) 3200 Winnie, XP-90/panaflow high, X-Connect 500w, DDR Booster, RedLine 4000, ATI x800Pro

so far i can tell ya that this 2nd gen of hardware is no better than the last...anyway

i got rig #2 FOLDing (245x10) for 3-4 days and then one day i came home from work and it wasnt running. now ive played around with this rig and MANY sets of ram ive noticed some odd things with "UTT" ram (both OCZ VX and RedLine) i thought this was the mobo, but the symptoms sound A LOT like whats going on here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vincentvega18

Now i can only boot one stick in slot 1 (yellow furthest from cpu) and any other wont. Also the second stick wont boot at all, on its own or in dual/single with the other. Anyone had anything like this.

---

i was able to boot with 1 stick (A) of the RedLine in 1 specific slot and none of the others. i could NOT boot with both sticks -OR- the (B) stick in any slot. i tried a "classic" Mushkin BH5 stick...NO boot no way. back to stick A in "right" slot...boots up fine. :upset:

so now for the "trick" that has worked for me: clear CMOS for 3-5 HOURS!!!

i know it sounds stupid, but its worked for me many times now. (put both sticks in and left it clear over night, booted up just fine next morn and is FOLDing away @ 245x10 as i type)

the thing i dont know is if this is only going to work on this MSI mobo or if it will help with the DFI

as for rig #2, i have had to RMA a set of TCC5 that i *think* the DFI killed...BUT i cant say that for sure...and ill keep that story for later :rolleyes:
(testing a brand new set of VX with a DDR Booster till the TCC5 get back from OCZ)

the saddest part of all this is that i have an old AMD 1800+ that FOLDs 24/7 for MONTHS on end with NO problems @ 200x12...

these 90nm 64's are nice and fast and seem to OC real well, but i still have not had a "stable" or "normal" rig yet with one :cussing:

Nice dodge on the fact that the testing is quite possible :p:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wtz54321

There is no single board out there support dram voltage higher than 3.0V except ABIT AN8 2.0 or AN8 SLI ...

---

Say what? There are very few MBs out there that can't run Vmem of at least 3.3V... think Vmem mods ;)

Quote:

---

Simply tell me if it's the fault design of the board that kill the dram , should we see CPU memory controller dead as well ... And should we see any other motherboard case that has UTT dead DRAM on it ...

---

Regarding the CPU memory controller... A64 mem controllers are a lot tougher than you indicate. They've been known to be abused by many with high V... think about all those BH5 DIMMs ;) And BTW... if you actually read the post I linked in my last reply, you would see my view on the whole thing... and it was not the post about testing by any memory module maker :p:

Quote:

---

Just show me something you know about chip testing procedure and how these chip are treated in standard ic testing company !!! Especially the burn in process and the burn in machine in module level !!!

---

:rofl: :rotf: :lol: I do hope you are referring to the specific testing being done by some particular memory module maker and not to such testing in general :hehe:

Quote:

---

Sorry , but I don't believe that module maker will send these chip to do the chip level burn in testing before these chip are put into the production line until they show me some detail information or picture ... I have already said that I have a friend working in ic testing company ... I ask him about the enviroment testing standard , sorry but the anwser I got from him is far different from the ocz and mushkin testing process in the post you refer to ... Unless these module maker can show me something about how they sorting out these bad chips , I still believe 99% percent of the dead case is standard UTT problem but not the board or the voltage ...

---

As previously said... it can be done at the DIMM level... and one shouldn't take what is done by one company (your friends) as what may or may not be done by different companies... because it definitely isn't the same everywhere. And if you believe that 99% of the posted "dead DIMMs" are a result of the memory... well, let's just leave it as a "we disagree" :D

Peace :toast:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dputiger

Fugger,

What motherboard would you recommend for high voltages (3.0-3.5v)? I want to review this Redline, and I was happy with the memory itself--but I have no idea what motherboard to recommend.

---

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813127212

3.55V max selectable Vdimm... :yepp:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tictac

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813127212

3.55V max selectable Vdimm... :yepp:

---

Can't find much on this mobo outside of
this less than great review. Can you point us to a thread where someone actually makes this board do something special? At $133 (NewEgg) its tough to chose it over the SLI moddable DFI Ultra at $129. I like the huge volts for the memory and the trick cooling but if the revised version of the DFI NF4 mobo comes out soon, it may kill any chance the AN8-Ultra has to get a foothold in the market. Then look for prices to drop like a stone on it. More bad news for Abit after losing billions of dollars last year. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EMC2

Nice dodge on the fact that the testing is quite possible :p:

Say what? There are very few MBs out there that can't run Vmem of at least 3.3V... think Vmem mods ;)


Regarding the CPU memory controller... A64 mem controllers are a lot tougher than you indicate. They've been known to be abused by many with high V... think about all those BH5 DIMMs ;) And BTW... if you actually read the post I linked in my last reply, you would see my view on the whole thing... and it was not the post about testing by any memory module maker :p:


:rofl: :rotf: :lol: I do hope you are referring to the specific testing being done by some particular memory module maker and not to such testing in general :hehe:


As previously said... it can be done at the DIMM level... and one shouldn't take what is done by one company (your friends) as what may or may not be done by different companies... because it definitely isn't the same everywhere. And if you believe that 99% of the posted "dead DIMMs" are a result of the memory... well, let's just leave it as a "we disagree" :D

Peace :toast:

---

I don't want to talk with these misc anymore ... Just one thing , the key point is how ocz and mushkin sorting out these bad utt chips ... No matter how they have done it in chip level or module level or whatever testing they done ...

But it does have common standard in memory chips testing company ... Sure you can change the testing standard if you want it ... But there is general standard ... Here is what I found the speed binning/chip level burn in in kingmax related article ...

Speed Binning Process machine , Advantest T5585H ...

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=672
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=673
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=674
http://www.theddrzone.com/images/kingmax/KM-testing.jpg

This is what ocz and mushkin claim they have expensive machine to do that which I think it's impossible for them ... Each speed binning machine cost around USD 5 million , and many units are required to do different level of testing ... They are not chip testing or chip branding company and they won't buy something like this to produce their own brand labeled chip ...

After the speed binning process is completed , chips will be seperate into different groups ... But that only means that it's functional and meet the electrical spec ... But the reliability is still " UNKNOW " after the speed binning is completed ...

So burn in process is required to ensure chips reliability ...
The Burn in machine ... JEC Profit 1600 ...

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=675
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=676
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=677
http://www.theddrzone.com/images/kin...ting-trays.jpg
http://www.theddrzone.com/images/kin...M-testing2.jpg

The chips will be working under over voltage and over temp enviroment with specific working pattern for a long period to find out those bad chips ... This is the main reason I am told it's almost impossible for module maker to do that becasue these specific testing pattern under over voltage and over temp is specially designed and can not be found in module level testing machine or motherboard level tetsing ...

Their general testing standard is 1.4 * VDD and 125~130 degree celcius enviroment temp for DDR I chip ...

Once this step is completed , the chip is not UTT anymore
And the memory chip company will gurantee anything within the product spec once this step is finished ...
Before this step , they won't gurantee anything , they sold these UTT chips to you and they won't calling back if these chips are not ok because the cheap price already cover the replacement cost ...

After the burnin process , chips will be send to chip labeling ...

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=678
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=680

So there is no so called very very secret in chip level brun in testing ...

Mushkin or OCZ can simply show something or picture about their standard or equipment if they did not want to describe it in very detail level ... But they can show something to us and clear the problem of the UTT chips because they have done a good testing and found out those bad chips , the chip is not UTT anymore but OCZ chips or mushkin chips !!!

Its not bad UTT guys, voltage is killing them.

Are they dying with the system on or during a reboot?

Someone needs to use a graphing scope and watch the supply for any abnormal spikes. I wouldnt be surprised to see a 4v + spike hitting the ram on cap discharge. Might need some kind of isolation circuit(on module).

Any UTT deaths on Intel based boards??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wtz54321

I don't want to talk with these misc anymore ... Just one thing , the key point is how ocz and mushkin sorting out these bad utt chips ... No matter how they have done it in chip level or module level or whatever testing they done ...

But it does have common standard in memory chips testing company ... Sure you can change the testing standard if you want it ... But there is general standard ... Here is what I found the speed binning/chip level burn in in kingmax related article ...

Speed Binning Process machine , Advantest T5585H ...

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=672
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=673
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=674
http://www.theddrzone.com/images/kingmax/KM-testing.jpg

This is what ocz and mushkin claim they have expensive machine to do that which I think it's impossible for them ... Each speed binning machine cost around USD 5 million , and many units are required to do different level of testing ... They are not chip testing or chip branding company and they won't buy something like this to produce their own brand labeled chip ...

After the speed binning process is completed , chips will be seperate into different groups ... But that only means that it's functional and meet the electrical spec ... But the reliability is still " UNKNOW " after the speed binning is completed ...

So burn in process is required to ensure chips reliability ...
The Burn in machine ... JEC Profit 1600 ...

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=675
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=676
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=677
http://www.theddrzone.com/images/kin...ting-trays.jpg
http://www.theddrzone.com/images/kin...M-testing2.jpg

The chips will be working under over voltage and over temp enviroment with specific working pattern for a long period to find out those bad chips ... This is the main reason I am told it's almost impossible for module maker to do that becasue these specific testing pattern under over voltage and over temp is specially designed and can not be found in module level testing machine or motherboard level tetsing ...

Their general testing standard is 1.4 * VDD and 125~130 degree celcius enviroment temp for DDR I chip ...

Once this step is completed , the chip is not UTT anymore
And the memory chip company will gurantee anything within the product spec once this step is finished ...
Before this step , they won't gurantee anything , they sold these UTT chips to you and they won't calling back if these chips are not ok because the cheap price already cover the replacement cost ...

After the burnin process , chips will be send to chip labeling ...

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=678
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=680

So there is no so called very very secret in chip level brun in testing ...

Mushkin or OCZ can simply show something or picture about their standard or equipment if they did not want to describe it in very detail level ... But they can show something to us and clear the problem of the UTT chips because they have done a good testing and found out those bad chips , the chip is not UTT anymore but OCZ chips or mushkin chips !!!

---

good stuff, was very inlighting

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FUGGER

Its not bad UTT guys, voltage is killing them.

Are they dying with the system on or during a reboot?

Someone needs to use a graphing scope and watch the supply for any abnormal spikes. I wouldnt be surprised to see a 4v + spike hitting the ram on cap discharge. Might need some kind of isolation circuit(on module).

Any UTT deaths on Intel based boards??

---

1 . How many intel platform user out there are using UTT chips and what kind of working voltage they apply to the dram is still unknow here ...

2 . If it's the spike hitting the dram due to reverse current on cap discharge or the choke current , it's possible that cpu memory controller will be dead as well ... Maybe it's hard for cpu to be dead due to spike voltage , but at least we should see some case reported ... If the case is reported only in DFI NF4 5V location or DDR booster(from +5V also) , the possibility of the voltage spike to kill the dram will be 99% compare to current situation ... But there is report with 3.3V jumper location in DFI NF4 ... One another important thing is that semiconductor device generally will be malfunction if the device is destroyed by voltage ... But a lot of so called dead dram is actually the dram need more voltage to boot up and they are not working stable under 2.6V anymore ... Updating the latest beta bios may solve the cold boot problem for a certain period , but after several weeks , the cold boot problem come back , and the dram need more voltage to bootup once again ... It's hardly that such kind of sympton is killed by voltage ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gundamit

Can't find much on this mobo outside of
this less than great review. Can you point us to a thread where someone actually makes this board do something special? At $133 (NewEgg) its tough to chose it over the SLI moddable DFI Ultra at $129. I like the huge volts for the memory and the trick cooling but if the revised version of the DFI NF4 mobo comes out soon, it may kill any chance the AN8-Ultra has to get a foothold in the market. Then look for prices to drop like a stone on it. More bad news for Abit after losing billions of dollars last year. :(

---

Here some overclocking database... not bad as "alternative board" :yepp:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...96&postcount=1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FUGGER

Its not bad UTT guys, voltage is killing them.

Are they dying with the system on or during a reboot?

Someone needs to use a graphing scope and watch the supply for any abnormal spikes. I wouldnt be surprised to see a 4v + spike hitting the ram on cap discharge. Might need some kind of isolation circuit(on module).

Any UTT deaths on Intel based boards??

---

Osiloscope :scope: view of Vdimm, Vtt & Vref during Reboot/Restart & a coldboot...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=117

props to emc2 :clap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Unrealcpu

You have to boot up your DFI with some good old generic ram. Then once you get a post set your timmings again and save your cmos. Then put your redlines back in and they will work

---

dude i can believe how right you were guys!!! :slobber:

i dont own mushkin redline but i have level one ch-5 pc 3500 and i had the same problem that the redline mushkin guy..

and i tried this, and the stick i considered death is working again OMFG :banana: ..

but whats next, mi stick are going to die later??, cause yeah is damn true that my mushkins dont like now stock voltages .. im worried cause the guy who sells it to me is hiding because he dont wanted to apply the warranty, and they were bought on new egg and i live in mexico... so should i keep them or just return them to the guy that selled to me, cause i pay around 240 dlls for this ram!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wtz54321

Most of them have cold boot problem first , and need more and more voltage to boot up after several weeks ... And finally they die ... I don't believe it's the board voltage problem ...

---

hi, well i have the same case as the redline guy but with mushkin ch-5 level ones.. so before my ram dies, what should i do??


do i have to RMA it to newegg where it was bought originally for a warranty applied..

or send it to mushkin?? and hope for a replace??

anyone please tell me if in this cases what has to be done.. and the lifetime warranty is applied???

plz guys some help :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wtz54321

What ? OHG ... Let me explain once again ... It's not possible that the problem is the board !!! I think you must be able to use this dram to work under 2.6V to boot for daily usage when you first receive the dram ... But after some weeks or so , this dram start to degrade in it's electric characteristic and require more and more voltage to boot up ... This is not good !!! To be more precisely , we can call these chip as " Faulty ones " , because these chips are design to work under 2.6V ... If it's the board problem , then your dram should be able to boot in other platform ... If it's the board kill the dram , then we shall not see any other dead UTT case in any other platform ... You know what ? By searching around the internet , I found that almost every DDR I RAM is spec @ 3.6V absolutely maximum rating !!! If there is any dead case in DFI NF4 is based on 3.3V jumper location , it's not possible for the board to supply dram voltage any higher than 3.3V ... But now we got many reports here that the dram is dead under 3.2V or so when he only set the jumper @ 3.3V location , no matter what kind of situation happened , it's not possible for the dram voltage exceed the power source --> 3.3V ... Voltage does not kill these dram !!! The problem is UTT itself , ok ????

---

so , are you saying that any ram with cold boot problems is the ram chips fault/failure 100% sure.. cause my ch-5 mushkin level one are like those utt's, and i need some help to tell me if im supposed to be mushkin warranted and recibe a replacement???

really guys, stop with all the conjectures and hypothesis's, the only REAL data we have seen here in this WHOLE thread is ecm2's, my 2 cents, if I had some UTT that did kick ass timings and htt, (which I did and there's no way in hell I would have rma'd it, u have to ask yourself, "does this stick still do what it's rated for? if yes, why rma it??? If it DOES NOT do what it's rated for, then yes, by all means rma it) I would deff wait and get a diff board, ie.. grouper (for me) before I jump to conclusions that I have to rma my ram. For all you know, your ram could boot up perfectly fine with the next board at any voltage. Hardware compatability problems are not somthing new, and even if you have 2 of the same kind of sticks with 2 of the same boards, mixing them can yield different results even if you tested 4 sticks of ram that did htt all the same on 1 board, on the next board 3 may do the same and the 4th may do more (or less), hell, post some gathered data and statistics if you believe that UTT based chips are more to blame. If you think it's the board, then post some damn data to back up your claim, the whole point is, POST SOME DATA. This is not directed at the thread starter or anyone in particular, but at everyone in general, we all know and hate that little thing called misinformation with a passion. (well at least I do). This will help ppl like finch64,...So lets help each other out a bit more eh?

In my opinion, this "UTT drama" could have been handled a lot better If OCZ or Mushkin, who get back those failed (according to us users) sticks tell us If they do any testing on them, to see what really happened. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to hear any information about that and that's why whole speculation goes on. Honestly, I don't expect any of the reps from either of the copanies to say anything :( Sad, but true... If they are failed then why not telling us that they are in fact dead. If they're still good but something got messed up, then i would assume they have some brainacs working there that can figure that out.

At least DFI said something in their defense thru Oscar Wu's words. Did OCZ or Mushkin say anything about RMA'ed sticks? No they did not... So, until they will come out with some info I will believe that it's the RAM that should be to blame ;)

I don't think they would say that RMAed RAM was fully functional because in other words they would admit that users are just stupid and can't use the memory properly. Then again, I kind of doubt that they would say that RAM was in fact dead, either. Sooooo, we're right where we all started this discussion at :D

no company in the world will ever admit their memory is prone to failure.
Sales would drop significantly...

Only time will reveal the truth about UTT.
I don't trust these UTT chips anymore...

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...93&postcount=1 --> No 5V Jumper is used ...

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...38&postcount=1 --> OTher board with DDR Booster

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...0&postcount=21 --> 3.3V Rail used

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...9&postcount=17 --> 3.3V Rail used

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...8&postcount=13 --> one 5V rail , one MSI + Booster

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...6&postcount=10 --> 3.3V rail

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...95&postcount=8 --> 250gb with 3.3V Mode

Too much to be listed ...

Man... go buy GeIL ONE BH, they don't lose warranty even with 3,8V and I don't think GeIL is going mad! :D

http://www.geilusa.com/proddetail.asp?linenumber=69

Working Voltage 2.55V - 3.80V

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher!

Man... go buy GeIL ONE BH, they don't lose warranty even with 3,8V and I don't think GeIL is going mad! :D

http://www.geilusa.com/proddetail.asp?linenumber=69

Working Voltage 2.55V - 3.80V

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If they did send their chip to do the most restricted reliability burn in testing and found those bad UTT chips , it's possible they won't face so much death case ... But the risk is still there even their chip is tested and not UTT anymore ... But the tested chip is still spec below 3.6V ...

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Originally Posted by Punisher!

Man... go buy GeIL ONE BH, they don't lose warranty even with 3,8V and I don't think GeIL is going mad! :D

http://www.geilusa.com/proddetail.asp?linenumber=69

Working Voltage 2.55V - 3.80V

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should be 2.55V - 2.80V ...

maybe just a typ0 error... ;) or they are going mad :banana:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...27&postcount=1

A Typical sympton that the stick are going to die ...

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...56&postcount=4

With Old NF2 3.3V ...

My opinion is quite simple , the problem is not BH5/CH5 spec or mushkin/OCZ design a wrong spec/product ... It's the problem of UTT itself ... Buy a tons of cheap UTT chips and put them directly into module was a " Low End Module " business in the past ... The RMA cost of the failure module can be covered by the money earned by cheap material ... These materials are " UNKNOW RELIABILITY ONES " and not guranteed by the original chip fab !!! Module maker need to take the responsibility of these chips by themself !!! To be more precisely , maybe we should call it " NO BRAND CHIP " but not UTT ... Such kind of material is not guranteed by it's producer ... This is the biggest problem of the whole stuff ... Even the module is not spec at 3.6V/250MHz or the module maker can do their own testing to see if these chips are working in functional aspect , these original materials are still not gurantee by chip company !!! OCZ/mushkin are not no brand or low end module maker , they choose the wrong materials to produce their product no matter the module is 200mhz/2.6V or 250mhz/3.6V !!!

I agree with wtz54321.

I think the production of UTT should be paused and examinated coz this is WAY too obvious (the failures of UTT´s). Personally, I will never ever use them on my personal PC.

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Originally Posted by fareastgq

really guys, stop with all the conjectures and hypothesis's, the only REAL data we have seen here in this WHOLE thread is ecm2's, my 2 cents, if I had some UTT that did kick ass timings and htt, (which I did and there's no way in hell I would have rma'd it, u have to ask yourself, "does this stick still do what it's rated for? if yes, why rma it??? If it DOES NOT do what it's rated for, then yes, by all means rma it) I would deff wait and get a diff board, ie.. grouper (for me) before I jump to conclusions that I have to rma my ram. For all you know, your ram could boot up perfectly fine with the next board at any voltage. Hardware compatability problems are not somthing new, and even if you have 2 of the same kind of sticks with 2 of the same boards, mixing them can yield different results even if you tested 4 sticks of ram that did htt all the same on 1 board, on the next board 3 may do the same and the 4th may do more (or less), hell, post some gathered data and statistics if you believe that UTT based chips are more to blame. If you think it's the board, then post some damn data to back up your claim, the whole point is, POST SOME DATA. This is not directed at the thread starter or anyone in particular, but at everyone in general, we all know and hate that little thing called misinformation with a passion. (well at least I do). This will help ppl like finch64,...So lets help each other out a bit more eh?

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thx dude for the support hehe... but well its not only a utt deaths a lot have been heared about bh5/ch5 deaths and if ti is the same case as mine, all this time none of the ram where death "just cold booted" problem, so mine accomplished what it was meant for, even more but know have this issue and well if later im going to have voltage problems, so why keep it i think all users have the right to know if the companies are buying from winbond and selling to us chips that in certain amount of time they are going to crash and start having all this problems, cause i can agree with one thing isnt motherboard voltage issue problem..cause they are suppossed to work at even 3.5 or 3.6 v right?? talkin about REDLINES AND OCZ VX ones and hearing here that they are dying at 3.2 v after a amount of time, thats just wrong and for me is winbond the one who knows this issue, but they dont wanna loose money :mad:

i never have seen this issue with any samsung chips, so i dont blame the ocz, mushkin companies for me is the factory where this utt, bh5, ch5 came out of and its WINBOND..

so my simple question if anyone can answer.. I suffer with the SO DAMN CALLED COLD BOOT PROBLEM.. am i in all my right for rma and ask for a replace?? :confused:

the answer will help me a lot

do you have cold boot problems at stock settings ?
Yes , then go for RMA . If not , you have no right to claim RMA imho :)

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Originally Posted by FiNcH64

so my simple question if anyone can answer.. I suffer with the SO DAMN CALLED COLD BOOT PROBLEM.. am i in all my right for rma and ask for a replace?? :confused:

the answer will help me a lot

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Already tried emc2 J17 mod?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ght=emc2+zippy

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Originally Posted by Jaco

do you have cold boot problems at stock settings ?
Yes , then go for RMA . If not , you have no right to claim RMA imho :)

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wow thanxx dude, thats the answer i was preying for . ok it seems now that is working perfectly at stock voltages that my lanparty is giving it from default that is 2.6 v.. and if later appeared that cant boot at stock voltages then i have the right of RMA IT??

thanx you give me a big relief :toast:

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Originally Posted by Aleman

Already tried emc2 J17 mod?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ght=emc2+zippy

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WOW :slobber:

thx ALEMAN for that link info, it has solved why my ram cold booted on memory.. its beacuse the ram led was still on when i change my a64 processor..

that issue its such a mess cause it really makes you think that your ram sticks are dead.. and the weird of all was that it only affected to 1 ram stick :confused:

THe problem is when you realize your stick IS DEAD :(