Majour flow issues... help urgently needed

Hi All..

i have recently taken a step towards a more decent wc solution after having a H100

so i ordered a kit from aquatunig

http://www.aquatuning.nl/product_inf...ng-S--1oe.html

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...tercoolset.jpg

Contents

. 1x Magicool Xtreme I 120 Radiator
. 1x Laing DDC-Pumpe 12V DDC-1T (Swiftech MCP350) Retail
. 1x Laing Silencer Set (Klettmatte + 60x60mm Dämmung)
. 1x Ausgleichsbehälter Magicool Plexiac 150 extern
. 1x Coolplex / Plexiac Befestigungsschrauben M4
. 1x Lüfter 120mm Yate Loon D12SL-12 mit Stecker
. 1x Adapter 4Pin (12V) auf 3Pin Molex (7V)
. 3m Schlauch PUR 10,3/7,5mm Flexible
. 1x Fertiggemisch AT-Protect-Plus 500ml
. 6x 11/8mm (8x1,5mm) Anschraubtülle AG 1/4
. 1x CPU Kühler Phobya CPU Waterblock S.1366
. 1x detaillierte bebilderte Aufbau und Bedienungsanleitung

So far so good..

As a little extra for myself i also have purchased a XSPC RX360 Triple 120mm Radiator Rev 2.

My idea was to have the big rad cool my cpu, from there on there would be a loop to the smaller rad that came with the water-kit and that would cool my gpu as soon as i had the water block for it.

For now my i intend to only cool my CPU. After a little while i had the cooling installed and started up my rig.

Immediately i noticed that there was no flow. The pump worked but seemed unable to get the juices flowing.

As a result my cpu became too hot and throttled.

What is going on? Are the tubes too long? Did i pick the wrong holes to connect to my reservoir? the reservoir has 3 holes, 2 are normal bottom openings and one has a tube that runs inside the reservoir.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-N...2017.14.24.jpg

I hope someone can help me out.

Thanks in advance

First order would be re-routing your tubing by shortening it up.
Also maybe move your pump directly below the res.

First, check your routing. Which hole on the pump is the reservoir tube going to? the one on the side, or the one in the middle? it should be going to the one in the middle, and the tube leading from the pump to the cpu should be the pump-side hole.

after checking pump, you're going to have to begin leading all the air that probably got trapped in your radiator to the reservoir. if you are looking at the case from the front, lay the case down on its right side. if you hear a lot of air move (when the pump is on), then you found one of your major problems; not enough water in the radiator at any given time. Remember that air will do it's damndest to end up at the top of your loop. while the case is still on its side, you'll want to unhook your reservoir from the clips that hold it to the case (don't undo the tubing). Hold the reservoir higher than everything else so the air ends up there. Top off your loop as necessary.

if that fixes it, consider listening to sirheck and shortening the tubing. not a necessity, but it could clean up the look.

Judging from your pic, it does indeed look as though the pump may be routed backwards, which would also make the CPU block "backwards". Try fixing those and then it should flow.

Hi All,

Thanks for the advise..

I really didn't think it would matter much how you connect the hoses to the pump since it can flow only in onde direction.

Is there anyone that can explain to me what the exact purpose is for the tube that is inside the reservoir?

probably to reduce noise caused by liquid coming in from the top if you had the line going in there instead of one of the bottom inlets. As long as your reservoir liquid level is above the bottom of the tube, the noise of moving liquid is significantly reduced. if you didn't have that tube and your 'in' tube was going through that top inlet, it would sound like someone is urinating in your computer.

Hello,
It seems your pump is not primed.

Did you power just the pump, with everything else disconnected, and using the PSU with a bridge inserted between green wire and any ground pin?

It's the basics, but just thought I should check with you.

A good way to initially prime the loop is to fill the rad, by disconnecting its tube, and filling with water - some should siphon into the waterblocks - then connect the tube, and fill the reservoir - shake it and slightly turn your case side-side to make sure there is water going into the pump....

Apologies if you have done this....just checking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBean

Hello,
It seems your pump is not primed.

Did you power just the pump, with everything else disconnected, and using the PSU with a bridge inserted between green wire and any ground pin?

It's the basics, but just thought I should check with you.

A good way to initially prime the loop is to fill the rad, by disconnecting its tube, and filling with water - some should siphon into the waterblocks - then connect the tube, and fill the reservoir - shake it and slightly turn your case side-side to make sure there is water going into the pump....

Apologies if you have done this....just checking.

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No apologies needed.. i can't say i have done all that..

you see.. i thought i knew a thing or two about pc's and figured that setting up my first WC set-up would be a matter of logical thinking.

But now i see i have not taken everything in account.

I will try all your tips once i get home.

Also one other thing i mentioned in my initial post; my cpu became extremely hot within a matter of moments and then throttled.

The CPU block was already on when this happened. Is there that much difference between kooling the CPU with water running through the system opposite to have a air cooler? You'd think the cooling block would dissipate the heat anyways. It makes sense for the cpu to have higher temperatures when no "active"cooling is enabled but i figured this to be a rather big difference.

Could it be that the CPU block was not attached properly?

It seems that:

1) water doesn't really run through your CPU block (no flow)
2) you didn't fit the block properly. Remove it and look how the thermal compound is spread on the block's base.

And remember: when your pump is without additional top (http://www.aquatuning.de/product_inf...l-Edition.html) then inlet for water from reservoir is at the top and outlet (to waterblock or radiator) in on its side.

Thing is;

My reservoir does not have a top-inlet.. everything is on the bottom (depending on how you hold the reservoir, of course :)

Ok, no worries - pump is not primed then :)

Let us know when you get it sorted! With the very low thermal mass of the waterblock, as opposed to an air-cooler, it will reach throttling temps within maybe30-90 seconds after power-on..

No no no :) I was referring to your pump. Look here: http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7578/35xintro.jpg
Top barb is inlet for water FROM reservoir, the one on the side (next to Swiftech sticker) is outlet for water.

Ahh... i see what you guys mean..

my pump does not have a top inlet, instead it has 2 pipes next to each other. but one does clearly have a arrow that suggests the flow direction.

Thanks a lot chaps. Will get starting as soon as i get home.

Why can't it be 5 pm yet? :(

You're welcome - plus, it's already after 17h00, if you live in Australia, like me :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBean

You're welcome - plus, it's already after 17h00, if you live in Australia, like me :rofl:

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That's just cruel, man :'(

;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoggieStyle

my pump does not have a top inlet, instead it has 2 pipes next to each other.

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Actually, it does. The one more in the middle is your top inlet. Anyhow, you may want to consider getting suitable aftermarket top for your pump. You will have better performance, less noise and more options for routing tubes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ggdh

Actually, it does. The one more in the middle is your top inlet.

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I see what you mean...

It's clear to me that my routing is the biggest cause for my systems flow issue.

Thank you guys for all your support. :clap:

i have a question: i bought a similar reservoire (albeit a bitspower rather than magicool, but same design). in the picture it is shown with the ports at the bottom. does it matter if they are at the top or bottom? i couldn't decide how it was "supposed" to be so i was actually planning on putting it on its side.

is there a correct/incorrect way to mount the reservoire?

also: with the ports on the bottom (or top?), i would guess the inlet would be the port with the inside tube? (i can't make it out in the picture) or, again, does it matter?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bds71

i have a question: i bought a similar reservoire (albeit a bitspower rather than magicool, but same design). in the picture it is shown with the ports at the bottom. does it matter if they are at the top or bottom? i couldn't decide how it was "supposed" to be so i was actually planning on putting it on its side.

is there a correct/incorrect way to mount the reservoire?

also: with the ports on the bottom (or top?), i would guess the inlet would be the port with the inside tube? (i can't make it out in the picture) or, again, does it matter?

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Ports at the bottom makes bleeding the loop much easier.

Ports at the top, the "inside" tube is best used on the res-outlet, so the pump dont suck air from the top of the res. At the same time the res-inlet will "push" down air into the water, making it hard to bleed. Need to keep an close eye on the water level with a setup like this.

Putting the res on its side will also complicate bleeding the loop. So ports at the top and res on its side should generally be avoided in favor for ports at the bottom :)

Wohooo.. succes :up:

i was home for a second and switched the tubes to my pump and it started working as it should.

Now i a got a new problem.. the bottle of cooling liquid that came with the set up is nowhere near enoug..

I´m not done bleeding the air yet since i did not had a lot of time but already i have spent the whole bottle.

Is it safe to add normal water or are there other fluids i could try?

This is very strange that included bottle turned out to be too little for the system. On the other hand it's only 120mm rad. I you didn't spill it :D I will blame enormous length of tubing.

You can't use tap water, that for sure. Destilled or DI water is OK. Look and the composition of your coolant: if main ingredient is miscible with water I would say: dilute it. Remember that the color will not be as intense as straight from the bottle.

Before diluting wait for other advices/opinions - i may be wrong (even though I use DI water + CuSO4 x 5H2O since 2008)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ggdh

This is very strange that included bottle turned out to be to little for the system. On the other hand it's only 120mm rad. I you didn't spill it :D I will blame enormous length of tubing.

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lol.. probably right but i don´t really mind the long tubes.. kinda like it :p:

Anyways.. is it safe to use something else besides cooling liquid?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ggdh

This is very strange that included bottle turned out to be too little for the system. On the other hand it's only 120mm rad. I you didn't spill it :D I will blame enormous length of tubing.

You can't use tap water, that for sure. Destilled or DI water is OK. Look and the composition of your coolant: if main ingredient is miscible with water I would say: dilute it. Remember that the color will not be as intense as straight from the bottle.

Before diluting wait for other advices/opinions - i may be wrong (even though I use DI water + CuSO4 x 5H2O since 2008)

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read the whole first post instead of just looking at pictures ; ). he added a 360 rad and 100 feet of tubes. ( jk on the hundid )

@OP just add water bro.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penguins

just add water.

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Sounds like a familiar phrase :rofl:

Will do tomorrow, thanks guys :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penguins

he added a 360 rad and 100 feet of tubes. ( jk on the hundid )

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OK, i missed that :doh:

In my case (360+240) it takes about ~1L of water to fill the system (with similar 150ml res).

well.. got the damn thing running properly :D

Unfortunately i screwed up my 360 rad :mad: the screws i used turned out to be too long and when
fitting my new fans i accidentally overtightened the screws and punctured the rad :'(
so now i'm stuck using the rad i wanted to use for my GPU untill i get my new 360 rad.

Since i was already at i also ordered new tubing (1/2) and fittings. Don't really like the small tubes i got now.

I am guessing it will be a much faster build nex time.

On a side-note: i have to say i am a little disappointed with the temperatures. Under normal circumstances my Scythe Mugen rev B. performs equal.

Temps are idling at aroud 50degrees for both the wc as my previous air setup. Vcore=1.3 is this normal?

Anyways.. for those of you who helped me and are curious to see how it turned out i have also added some pictures.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k...2021.07.18.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J...2021.08.31.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-r...2021.09.27.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...2021.10.27.jpg

Greetz

:rofl: So the pump wasn't priming...

Glad you got it going, and good luck going forward - be careful with the screws.....

It's hard to tell from the pics what your exact loop order is. But the water MUST enter through the mid port of the CPU block and exit through the side. If it's reversed that is causing the poor temps. Also, reservoir output (not the tube) should go directly to pump inlet. So overall it should look something like: Pump > Rad > (cent)CPU(side) > (tube)RES(out to pump). Hope that helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chainlink

It's hard to tell from the pics what your exact loop order is. But the water MUST enter through the mid port of the CPU block and exit through the side. If it's reversed that is causing the poor temps. Also, reservoir output (not the tube) should go directly to pump inlet. So overall it should look something like: Pump > Rad > (cent)CPU(side) > (tube)RES(out to pump). Hope that helps.

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Hi, thanks for your reply...

It does not enter throught the mid port, why would that matter? Has it something to do with the way the CPU block is designed?

Cheers

Mr. Bean :D

Yeah... i'll think twice next time thanks for all the advise so far :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoggieStyle

Hi, thanks for your reply...

It does not enter throught the mid port, why would that matter? Has it something to do with the way the CPU block is designed?

Cheers

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most cpu blocks are designed to concentrate the incoming flow of water directly over the center of the CPU die, offerring up the absolute best cooling possible. After it hits this central, hottest part of the CPU, it spreads out and around, and then gets rounded up and gathered back up at the outlet. by having it in reverse, the water is going all over the place first before hitting the CPU central die. Depending on the exact design of the block, if you have it in reverse, there could be a small eddy or laminar flow that causes the water to not flow properly over the center of the die.

It's basically the difference between shooting a target at point blank range, or trying to ricochet the bullet off a tree first (only with a lot more bullets). both ways may work, but one is more effective.

I would also consider making certain that the fans on the radiator are pulling in cool air from the outside of the case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoggieStyle

Hi, thanks for your reply...

It does not enter throught the mid port, why would that matter? Has it something to do with the way the CPU block is designed?

Cheers

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Yep, it does matter with most blocks today, this is why I stated in my previous post that you should flip the tubes on that as well. The particular block you have, has little arrows on top of the block shows which way the flow should go (arrow pointing to the hole is in and the one pointing away is out).

As for your temps, idle is not our measuring stick, wait until you get under load...that is where a well designed water loop will kick air to the curb.

So.. back home and i switched the tubes on the CPU block...

I just can't believe the difference... temps dropped to 42 degrees idle.. WTF? :shocked:

have you loaded it up with a program like OCCT yet?

Quote:

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have you loaded it up with a program like OCCT yet?

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Don't use this, CPUs were never designed to deal with the unnatural/impractical heat-loads and stress this impose on your system -> no wonder we have so many sudden-death CPUs around. Rather use programs that will simulate real-life situations, like Folding, Prime 95, and others to test.

Not a dig at you, Mate, just a general observation.

No worries, I don't take things personally here. :D

You are right in that I should have probably mentioned some of the others instead, especially in a new-to-watercooling thread. To be perfectly honest it was the only one I could remember by name off the top of my head.

Ah, no worries - with English not my being my native tongue, things seems to get out a bit harsher than intended :)

I know a few guys here will disagree, and I will probably use OCCT for 10-15 minutes as a quick test, but generally, I tend to avoid it. Better, or let's just say, more practical apps out there...

Have a good one.

Your tube runs are still way too long. This is a simple loop, one block one radiator, keep the tube length at a minimum, you even have small diameter it should be a lot cleaner than that, imagine what it would be with several radiators and GPU blocks as well :) (keeping the tube routing simple will help your flow too). The worst offender is the CPU->radiator tube, you can reduce it to maybe 1/4 its current size.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gmat

Your tube runs are still way too long. This is a simple loop, one block one radiator, keep the tube length at a minimum, you even have small diameter it should be a lot cleaner than that, imagine what it would be with several radiators and GPU blocks as well :) (keeping the tube routing simple will help your flow too). The worst offender is the CPU->radiator tube, you can reduce it to maybe 1/4 its current size.

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hi.. the other chaps mentioned the same thing. well that seems like Something i'll do on saturday.

no time tomorrow. will keeper you guys posted :-)

something also to note: a single 120 radiator will probably not give you the temps (under load) that you are looking for - as to your comment that your temps weren't much better than under air. the triple you were intending will help under load by a huge margin (overkill actually), but a single is just to small for the heat output of modern CPUs so you probably will not see the temps that you are looking for under F@H, Prime95, or whatever load program you want to use. you also mentioned putting the single rad (that you are now using on your CPU) on your GPU loop once you get another triple 120 rad. it will certainly help your temps, but GPU's actually put out MORE heat than a CPU....it's just spread out over a larger area and therefore more easily dissipated which is why you normally see better temps on GPUs. something to think about.

Hi Guys,

I apologize for not doing this sooner but i hardly had time due to work and issues of everyday life.

All i wanted to say is; thanks.. Thanks for the help in setting up my first self built WC solution so far. :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bds71

something also to note: a single 120 radiator will probably not give you the temps (under load) that you are looking for - as to your comment that your temps weren't much better than under air. the triple you were intending will help under load by a huge margin (overkill actually), but a single is just to small for the heat output of modern CPUs so you probably will not see the temps that you are looking for under F@H, Prime95, or whatever load program you want to use. you also mentioned putting the single rad (that you are now using on your CPU) on your GPU loop once you get another triple 120 rad. it will certainly help your temps, but GPU's actually put out MORE heat than a CPU....it's just spread out over a larger area and therefore more easily dissipated which is why you normally see better temps on GPUs. something to think about.

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I must say that you are right, the temps are not exactly what i was expecting.

Heck.. they're not that much better than my Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B. I'd even go as far as to say my air cooler was on par with my single rad.
I'm gonna run the system like this for a while and see how it copes under stress

thanks again for the help everyone :D

Looks to me like your Rad is airLocked
B.T.W I have fixed these Lo-pressure Rads with 2 part epox . Just make sure it is drained and dry .Scrape/sand the punture
The apply the epox. works good . or if you have access to it use gastank repair epox.
If you want to see if it is Airlocked just turn your Rad/computer on its side.Out let side up and turn on the pump.that will force the air out of your rad.Or just take out your rad and turn it so the inlet/outlet are on top.