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At the AMD presentation today:
http://assets.vr-zone.net/12494/5.jpg
http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-comp...-/12494-3.html
90 days from now is September. Fall season.
Video source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbIboX36Lhs#t=4m08s (he sounds thrilled..)
90 days from now is end of august :D
Basic translation equals September as a realistic interpretation:(
well, late summer is more like september...
Seems hardware.fr was right weeks ago.
Congratz to them :up:
Back to school is not a bad time to release a new line of CPU's, but still...it seems so far away from now.
well that plain sucks. even worse is the rumor that they are delaying due to the fact that performance is uncompetitive with current clock speeds and they needs produce a new revision to get high clocks which will bring them on par with SB. even worse for AMD is the fact that SB-E will be out close to that time and will widen the Gap even further.... I guess that gives us an idea as to how fast BD really is:(
More and more this reminds me of the Phenom Launch...
What is the official date for Lano launch? I assume that will not be effected as it is not very similar to BD and more similar to current Athlons.
meh..
how does this remind any of you about the phenom launch?
Phenom Launch
AMD: "BEST Native quad core ever built."
US: "YAY"
AMD: "Willl KICK penryn's ass"
US: "HEll YES"
AMD: "BEST Native quad core ever built."(shows BS numbers)
US:"OMGWTFFTW"
BD Launch
US: "AMD say something"
AMD: "NO"
US: "Please"
AMD: "HELL NO"
US: "Pretty PLEASE"
AMD: "WTF don't you get about NO?"
to me it sounds like 3dfx, death by a thousand delays.
the board makers must want to strangle AMD right now. first the p67 recall, now this. a bunch of product nobody is rushing out to buy. it's hard for them right now.
this all must be part of the reason the AMD chief executive was let go. the board members know the trouble behind the scenes. we better hope llano is successful, because a world without AMD is a world where Intel rapes and pillages, drinking our blood and having roaring adventures.
Lets just hope that they can sufficiently fix whatever the issue is in a new stepping.
It sure does bring back memories of phenom I.
I am not so sure about that, most of them stopped making the 8xx lines, so they needed something to replace, and selling 9xx is a good way for consumers to future proof their purchase--if they still want AMD.Quote:
Originally Posted by bamtan2
For most of the hardcore guys, then this really don't make much of a difference. If you needed a upgrade now, then you know what you must do. If not, then you just wait...and wait...
They may not have serious issue, they just put Llano forward to play it as a more important role, and push Zambezi behind, that's the aftermath of changing strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
BTW Rick Bergman said Zambezi looks great now.
Well, that just plane sucks, at least show us some numbers amd.
Something is fubar'd, that's the reality at this point, 60-90 days from now means we need time and we don't know exactly how long but we hope 60-90 days is enough. If this is a change in strategy its not a change by choice, it would be a forced change.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
Why would Rick Bergman ever say anything otherwise of any product in the AMD family.
what it means "PIBs" at screen?
Clue, Processor __ Box?Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
Proc. in a Box.Means you can buy one in a store.
Even if Bulldozer does beat SB it might be short lived by the time Intel releases 2011.
Oh, we can't do that. It may cannibalize sales of our crappy processors we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by gallag
Is it possible that 'processor in a box' means that a hard launch will be around then (60-90 days from now) and a paper launch will be earlier with some official numbers?
Anyway, what's with all the delay stuff? Weren't AMD only saying that they'll launch it in 2011?
well at least amd now has a launch date unlike before were most people here played a guessing game....
AMD indicated in quarterly conference calls that desktop BD would launch early summer and server late summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karolis
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...Bulldozer.html
JF-AMD has vehemently stated in this forum and elsewhere that desktop would come in Q2 and server in Q3.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/graphic...s_Company.html
Aug-sept is neither early summer or Q2.
i have a feeling they will get crushed by X79 if they wait to long.
That is very unfortunate for AMD. They had a good gameplan, but delaying Bulldozer by a whole quarter will certainly kill almost all the advantage they would have of releasing this product sooner than socket 2011.
Not only does this suggest that current revision is not on par with 2600k, but also means that whatever effort AMD had put into this product will look shadowed completely by Intel's extreme editions, losing them any marketing hype they managed to build over this product. If EE Sandy Bridge launches within 2 months of BD, it will be very bad for AMD. Now anyone who would take BD over 2600k will hold their purchase to see what socket 2011 will bring in terms of price/performance and there goes AMD's momentum down the drain.
What a shame...
But i didnt think BD was in competition with X79. X79 is X58 replacement right?Quote:
Originally Posted by sin0822
BD for desktop is more midrange oriented is it not?
"Expects" <> "Definitely"Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
JF also has a sig explaining that everything he says is his own view.
AMD say BD has no problems and its a simple strategic shift.
http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showp...postcount=1484
Bulldozer has no problems???Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo75
That my friend is classic marketing Ox Manure
If BD had no problems it would be inside my computer as we speak.
A delay from original planned launch cannot happen for any reason other than problems. They have ZERO to gain by dealying Bulldozer, unless of course the Phenom II were so good that they even competed with Sand Bridge on similar levels.
But is that the case?:rolleyes:
Another stepping could add a little more performance, that's all it might take. Llano is selling out faster than it leaves the oven anyway so there would be a choice to make on supply.
The simple fact is, we've now heard every single possible story that can be told about Bulldozer, and nothing can be believed.
if llano is doing great, and if waiting a few more months lets them earn 20$ more per BD chip due to higher clocks/bins, then it might be very logical to hold it back and release it properly.
BD on the client side is probably still very enthusiast level when looking at revenue. a high clocked quad core llano with a 200$ gpu can still be considered good enough for the needs of 90% of the "gamers". so the needs for BD are so much more server side that lost revenue for delays may not be very large.
Manicdan, so what you are saying is that AMD cannot at this time manufacture both Bulldozer and Llano in large enough numbers to launch both at the same time?
But I do not see where this is coming from, there has been neither any comments from AMD regarding manufacturing holdbacks nor from any reliable source. The only thing we hear is that BD has issues clocking up and meeting speed requirements to play with Intel.
If AMD couldn't produce Bulldozer and Llano at the same time this quarter then they should have planned BD for Winter to begin with. I do not see how they would risk getting their brand new product overshadowed completely just 2 months later by Intel because they prefer to manufacture Llano now and BD later when capacity is available.
It would be nice if AMD gave us some performance numbers. After seeing socket 2011 and hearing all the noise about low performance on BD, I'm tempted to jump ship on AMD. Knowing where to peg BD would make me a little more willing to grab a 990FX board and wait.
Likelier version of the events:
Llano was supposed to ship and ramp way earlier (something that kinda was true; Ontario ramped earlier)- and did not; BD gets pushed too.
This would totally go against any performance based rumors though, but those could just be mobo makers using crippled samples (hint)
If the silicon was ready and competitive you could bet your bottom they would having be showing and launching.
i doubt BD will affect the price of 2011 based cpus unless BD was 50% stronger than most of our guesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darakian
This, end of, I feel like I have been waiting for bd for years....Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
By just about every account I've read Llano is competitive yet AMD isn't breaking out the benchmarks on it either, and it's launching in 2 weeks.
Charlie is supposed to be writing a piece on BD so we'll know soon enough hopefully.
Charlie? No offense but I'd rather get poontangs to write about BD than Charlie.
Well if you consider that none of the rest of the press can come up with a believable story amongst themselves (they cant even decide on which stepping BD is at), I don't see how Charlie can get it much worse frankly.
Not necessarily. If Llano is selling very well, and manufacturing is peaked getting that out, there may be no need in rushing BD out.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
The majority of people who will buy BD are waiting on 2011 anyways.
When the vast majority of people will be buying the Llano product, it makes business sense to get as much payoff from that as possible.
Oh well, I'm just gonna go with SB anyways. Been waiting for a real AMD revision for years now and I'm sick of the bottlenecks from Deneb in my setup.
They will anounce officially Bulldozer in September ( assuming no new delays )... that means November in stores, December for the rest of the world...
December ... I won't buy it then because the prices are inflated due to Santas and the new year... so I'll wait to the February's savings/reductions offers... but, by then, Ivy Bridge is supposed to appear in 22nm using 3D gates...
Can I quote you on that?Quote:
Originally Posted by jogshy
Hell, Charlie is probably the most reliable person i've stumbled upon on the interwebs.
His estimates might sometimes be very wishfull and doubtfull, but his insider info articles are probably the best reads i have in this hardware community. He have been right about many things, and his gossip on stuff like woodenscrew, i had a nice laugh. Remember the joke he made about 6970, where he posted a joke article about the card having a second swicth unlocking 1920 SP's, where he posted pictures of the cards having a regular lamp switch taped on with gaffa? He obviously just wanted to kill the 1920 sp rumor, in a funny way.
I might sound like a biased Charlie fan, but i just want to give a share of my thougts and i'm pretty damn drunk.
Really I fail to see how people are trying to rationalize this as "good" or "ok" buy saying Lano production is takings all the fab time from BD. have a fast and competitive CPU in a higher performance bracket does wonders for marketing and sales in the lower performance brackets. if that was the case you would see AMD launch BD in limited numbers while pumping out Lano chips. it was also AMD's plan to launch in Q2. Not to mention once X79 is out things will look even worse at launch for them...
the time to launch for them is NOW if the product is remotely competitive to SB. considering boards are out.
when was the last time you can remember a new round of boards made specifically for a line of CPU's launching way before the CPU???
I really hope this new rev. can do some wonders for them.
edit:
the reason I likened this to the Phenom launch is:
-EXTREME COMMUNITY HYPE (people thinking it will utterly destroy Intel and going on for pages and pages about it)
-MOAR HYPE
-RELEASE DATE SET
-MOAR HYPE
-DELAY
lets just hope it does not end like the Phenom launch: a terrible CPU fought with issues.
Not from what i know, its supposed to compete against sandy bridge LGA 1155, AMD is behind for many reasons, funds, resources, engineers, they are behind Intel because of the pure fact they don't have the resources Intel has ATM, partially because they are in so much debt. Yea they are doing much better now, but a year ago they weren't. Its not like they are going to make magic happen, and bring in a total Intel destroyer in overnight.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbster1966
You shouldn't, he also said this:Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by jogshy
You say you hope BD will be good, will compete etc, but all I'm getting from your post is really the opposite. I doubt you'll be buying an AMD system even if it's good, and you never miss the chance to insert FUD into your posts when talking about AMD.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650
It does look like I'll be waiting for Ivy Bridge, thuban was good to me but I'm not looking for a sidegrade.
haha no. there is plenty of fact. bulldozer was delayed, that's a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo75
that is not the timeline amd is talking about. when they say PIB ready in 90 days, they mean in 90 days the boxes will be in the trucks on the way to retailers.Quote:
Originally Posted by jogshy
I was really hoping to do an AM3+ build, but went 1155 and I guess I made the right call. September? WOW.... Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy....
I honestly hope AMD pulls an ace out of their sleeve and really brings an awesome product, I really do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
If I recall events properly, last year AMD said Bulldozer is H2 2011 product.
Then Llano got delayed past 2010, to Q1 2011 and then again to Q3 2011. AMD came forward and said they moving Bulldozer 1Q forward to Q2 for Desktop and it will launch before Llano.
Early in Q1/11 Charlie wrote an article saying GF manufacturing problems with Llano are sorted and it might move forward by 1Q to launch in Q2 instead of late Q3.
I bet that's what happened and AMD again moved BD back to Q3 2011 due to volume manufacturing constrains.
Just my guess, but if someone is bored can research all the info on iterwebs ;)
I'm done
Tired waiting, i'm already had Z68 mobo and 2600K
It's very bad news waiting for the next 90 days and in my country it could be October to hit my local store
If you guys have been following anand's postings he stated that the chips can easily hit 3.8, but perhaps the problem is at unreasonable thermals. So, probably not a performance problem.
These rumors aren't making me optimistic.
If it is a manufacturing problem then there is a solution. Outsource to Intel fabs. ;)
Yeah, I recall the same things, there was (is) a lot of flux around the actual timing. Llano was always slated to come before BD at the beginning then rumors were BD would come first, but now Llano will be before BD at least that much has not changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightman
I simply posted that because someone mentioned 'AMD stated they would launch in 2011 and gave no more granularity than that'... which isn't true.
It was clearly Q2 2011 per AMD at their financial analyst day meeting:Quote:
http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/h...-2011-desktops
JF-AMD was clearly trying to quell rumors from Xbitlabs which implied a delay back here http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...63#post4715663 (and despite Jimbo's rebuttal, this is clearly JF simply re-commuincating the current timeframe at the time)
So it has been Q2 for quite some time, that has now moved into Q3.... some people would call this a delay for what ever reason whether or not it was 'expected' or 'definite'.... which answers the gentlemen's question of 'why all this delay stuff' as people will perceive this as a delay.
Jack
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5...slidefad01.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
Well thanks for correcting me. I wasnt really making a statement though, just kind of asking if there was a more specific date (english isn't my native language and my posts might look weird and confusing) because I haven't been really following this launch thing for one reason - there are just so many rumours and guesses that make it all a huge drama, like AMD will cause the end of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
The rumor mill kicks into high gear whenever AMD approaches a new product launch. Easy to miss actual details.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karolis
Best bet, don't bet on anything until it actually arrives.
what I was trying to get across is that I'm not about to trust AMD blindly like what seems to be most of the people around here. I own MANY AMD systems probably more than Intel currently. I have built more AMD systems than I can count, everything from the original Athlons to Tuhban systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by insurgent
if Intel had the same launch I would have the same attitude about their new CPU's.
when it comes to Tech news no matter the brand I tend to see the glass half empty until the product is released. I have been burned to many times by buying into the hype and being sorely disappointed at launch, 775 P4's, Phenom, R600 and the list goes on.
also please give me an example of "FUD about AMD" that I have posted.
I am not however about to ignore what is going on and try and back up AMD in this move. it sucks no to ways around it.
If the delay is due to stepping on frequency targets, the server side should be on time rather than a delay.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
Who knows -- perhaps you are correct. Considering the rigors that server chips must go through for validation, I would suspect that this impacts servers as well, perhaps not the same extent but some impact.... but I could be wrong as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by qcmadness
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650
this sucks, wow amd wtf! i was hoping that the rumors were just that (rumors). this delay is the last straw for me. unless amd give an explanation as to why it is being delayed (and it better be good). they have had 6 - 7 years to work on the damn thing, sure they scrapped the original design...idc, i dont like this new amd, they are too much like apple with regards to information.
It's not too much time to wait, and there is no doubt it is a very interesting design. I will certainly build one.Quote:
Originally Posted by god_43
FUD would be perpetuating rumors, but it's not important anyway. I apologize for what I said, just frustrated I guess. I am biased towards AMD but I base my purchase on value. If I didn't buy an X6 last year I'd be using an Intel now, but with the way things are going my next upgrade will probably be delayed until Ivy Bridge is released, unless Bulldozer turns out to be great.. not good or okay, has to be great.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650
I agree, I see it as more of a big let down due to the high anticipation.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
We expect things done yesterday an hour ago.
The biggest problem I see for AMD with this delay is with motherboard partners.
Seems like most of them worked pretty hard on their 990FX designs, and actually released some of the best looking AMD boards I've seen since the NF4's...
Now here they sit with all the R&D/production costs of these beautiful boards that are probably going to have very weak sales until the FX is actually released. :(
I'd have to think this is going to leave a bad taste in their mouths on future AMD deisgns. Kinda sad really, I was excited to see them putting some real effort into AMD boards for a change.
BD will not be "great". Thats a certainty. It wont be an INTC killer, no way. If it was, we would know about it already. At best there 8coreBD will probably slot into INTC mid-line CPU range, just like always. Nothing special except a decent price/performance ratio.
If BD isnt special, It'll definately be the last I ever buy. Theres just no reason for me to buy AMD anymore if BD isn't something special(and its not).
RussC
Quote:
Originally Posted by insurgent
you have some inside info russ you wish to share?Quote:
Originally Posted by RussC
This is very disappointing, I was hoping Bulldozer would be released somewhere this month and they had to delay it even further. Damn.
RussC: whats special from yout point of view?:) If u meaning is SB-E 6c/12T performance, then pay more than 1000$ and u have max performance. BD is opossite to LGA1155, not LGA2011 (with more bigger size, more power hungry, more, more expensive as complete set)
because apparently he already knows...Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
I am also disappointed that BD aint ready yet, but if Russ C wants more, SB-E will not deliver the jump that SB delivered with the K series, which wont be present in SB-E
this kind of threads clearly shows the average age of forum users......
those who can't wait are the ones with a broken system.
yeah right in his dreamsQuote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
I dont think, he has some good infos. Delayed BD for 2-3 months (with full aviability) doesnt mean nothing about performance. In 2 months can not change it. Dresdenboy spoke about some heat problems. His idea looks more better than performance nonsense
The delay doesn't bother me.
September is just right for me actually, that's when I find out what type of system specs I need for work and projects.
Add in a new GFX and got a nice gaming system as well.
I just hope these rumors of heat problems prove false, a hot chip is a nasty chip.
People are reading too much into "performance problem".
Even if fixed frequency CPU works properly and blazingly fast :-).
Not properly working CnQ and/or turbo can hamper "performance" very very much :).So, no big deal for us, can make cpu unlaunchable.
Remember that AMD feels confident enough to pit it against 2600K.
Just wondering if Intel will jump onto this with SB-E benchmarks on Anand in next few days..
No reason to do it yet, a week before or after BD launch will be optimal for anantel.Quote:
Originally Posted by R101
Well that is a big problem, the longer amd leaves it the more chance there is that intel counter launches something better, that's why if amd had something good to go now they would launch!!
Even a paper launch of a product a month or two out would ruin amd's party.
Let's hope they clock well too then :) Critical for AMD always has been heat.. When will they release a CPU that will do 4.2Ghz at 1.2Vcore iso 1.4 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by XRL8
is that core for core?Quote:
Originally Posted by XRL8
How the hell is that relevant in any matter ? If AMD prices its 8 core a bit higher than the 2600k than in their own internal testing it must be on average very close (depending on the workload plus/minus) in performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motiv
Cores, MHz etc, none of it matters only £€$¥, I don't care if amd uses 1000 cores to beat one intel core as long as it is cheaper, that being said, am I the only one thinks they need to aim higher? Is being even with a 2600 what we expected with bd?
It is really relevant... since there are still plenty of tasks that don't even run on 4 core so in 8....Quote:
Originally Posted by XRL8
If BD is like 5% faster in multi-thread vs 2600k but loses 5% in single thread. That mean he will lose till 4 threads and that is just like 90% of the stuff the average joe does.
I really hope they surpass the 2600K clock per clock at stock... not average it... that would be such a disspapointment...
You do know 2600K has 8 threads ? And its substantially faster than the 2500k ?Quote:
Originally Posted by st0ned
On the second part.You really think average joe would notice 5% difference in his everyday tasks such as web viewing, gaming or playing solitaire ?
Youre average joe would not see the difference between athlon x4 and BD in his everyday tasks.This kind of CPU`s are targeted not at the average joes.Hell, even intel sales 6 core cpu`s now for 500$ a pop even tho theyre less efficient per thread than the newer ones.
Ya.It makes all the difference in the world :rofl:
Guys, thinking...doesnt matter about number of cores or about clocks. If company A has 8 cores CPU at 6 GHz stock CPU (because this is architecture point) and still 125W TDP and company B has 4 cores at 3 GHz with the same TDP = doesnt matter at it.
Simplified its about ratio: die size/TDP/performance. Clocks and number of course is not important.
i am beginning to think terrance was right all along, BD wont show up until the end of 2011. they said q2 on their road maps...its the principal of the matter, i have been lied to. when they made statements that bd was in production.....that was a lie. this is also a big f*** you to their investors as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
you may be building a system, but i wont be.
It's not a lie if their plan was originally to launch now and they discovered technical problems. As for production, you don't know how far into it they got. They could have meant risk production for samples which would be true.
lol, Intel lie us, they told, IB will be at end 4Q 2011 firstly, tahn Q1 2012 and now Q2 2012. WTF?!
Please, stop flames "Intel" fans! Real discussion to thema!
bigger die size? last time I checked, SB-E 6C/12T will have a ~300mm² die size, similar to zambezi (294mm²)..Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
it was expected that IB would start shipping in Q4/2011, not launching, you should read more carefully...Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
IB launch was pushed from january 2012 to march 2012 (late Q1, probably after cebit)
It's relevant if the 8 core version is only competitive when 8 threads are needed. If a 4 core app is used and the 2600k is far better, then a lot of gamers will go intel.Quote:
Originally Posted by XRL8
So it comes down to what you want the CPU for. If core for core there is a big enough difference, people with single threaded apps (or apps that use 4 threads), will stay with intels product.
If however the difference between the two is not so great, then the added bonus of 4 extra cores would swing it in AMDs favour.
suck!!! i wait him for a year!!!
i may buy AM3+ board and play with Sempron LE-145?
no, Q2. March is Q1 still :P End of OT. I noted only against and against atacks Intel fanboys here.
this is very true and why i think llano will be the main cash cow for amd in the next year. 4 cores is like the optimal amount for quite some time now. most games are still just 2-3, some even limited to a single threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Motiv
so when it comes to actually buying a BD, im going to pick up their quad core and try to unlock the other cores, since they are bonuses and not really needed in games. but clock speeds are still the main question. we can all assume 10-15% ipc increase over phenom, so i hope to see 5ghz being easy and 5.2ghz+ on water 24/7, otherwise it might just be time for SB
You need to stop posting this crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
Do you really expect intel to put out 32nm sandy bridge and 22nm ivy bridge in the same year?
Intel has been spot on on there road maps.If anything the delay of ivy is because they moved to fast.
sandy E is about to come out in that 2011 socket and they will have a cheaper quad core sandy E for the people that just want that platform and want to wait for ivy to upgrade down the road.
What attacks????Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
Time will be difficult for AMD ...
Llano will be sold for cheap in order to gain marketshare (129$ for the A8 model) and BD will fight SB and IB, a really difficult rumble.
Maybe it's time for AMD's fanboyz to stop having ultra-high expectations all long, thus, they won't be disapointed anymore :shrug:
Can we keep this thread clean please?Just once,pretty please?
Zambezi is not out yet,nobody knows how it performs(except maybe few selected people).We don't know the die size,we don't know clock speeds,we don't know OC potential.What we know is that it will be in stores,in best case, in 60 days. So if you guys find some useful links about price or performance,post them.If you want to rant about how SB-E/insert any other intel product here/ will outperform the unreleased Zambezi,go to intel section and create a thread called "SB-E,ruler of all CPUs".
Thank you.
We are not in the AMD section,why make a new thread when things can be debated in one of the 5 going threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Yes ,we are in the News section.Unless you have some news to link to,stop useless comparisons to yet unreleased CPUs(SB-E,IB etc.).