need your suggestion/expertise on my single loop pissing flow issue

well i would like to thank you all for all your suggestions you guys have guided me and put me on the right track thats for sure and the systems running like a champ now

much appreciated :toast:

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heres my fully watercooled system.. saturday i removed the 3rd gtx580 in the hope of getting better flow but quite the opposite turned out.. i removed one of the 2 radiators and still low flow.. atm the flow is so bad its like the 1800gph pump is not even on

the inlet is at @ gpus and the outlet is @ raid controller

1800gph pump -> (35-38 foot tubing) -> gpus -> eheim 1250 pump -> cpu -> mobo chipsets -> mobo vrm -> ram -> raid controller -> (10 foot tubing) -> eheim 1250 pump -> (25-28 foot tubing) -> radiator -> reservoir

total tubing @ 90-95 feet

what you guys think? should i install another eheim 1250 between the ram and raid blocks and another eheim 1250 between the radiator and reservoir ?? will 2x more eheim 1250 help out at all?? or remove the current eheim 1250s and get 3x-4x eheim 1260 pumps instead or remove the eheim 1250s and the 1800ghp pump and just get a single quite beastly pump.. Q is.. is there such??

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9016/sam0928.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7337/sam0929e.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/663/sam0930c.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/97/sam0935r.jpg
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/2773/sam0936g.jpg

I had this same problem not but last week....While this may sound like a pain... it solved all my issues. I removed one block at a time took about 30-ish mins. once I removed the troublesome block BOOM I instantly went from .5LMP to over 9LPM. My problem was my CPU block had some plastisizer and grit/gunk in it that was easily removed.

EDIT: Wait.... your current flow is near 1800GPH(30 GPM / 115LPM) ?!?!?!

Id be surprised if you could get some of those blocks to do 10GPM without them springing leaks from the pressure.

Sounds like clogged blocks or an air bubble trapped in there somewhere.

Pull it all apart and start again. Painful, but really the only way to do it.

over 70ft of tubing?..did I read that correctly?

^ I was wondering the same.

I wonder if the pump has enough outlet pressure to get through all of that stuff..crunching some numbers out I get "no"..but, I had to assume some stuff..

Another room placed rad ?

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

Honestly it sounds like you have waaaaaaaayyyy too much tubing. For such long distances you need a larger diameter tubing. Why such a long distance anyway?

You don't have enough pumping power for that system. Not only is your cooling block setup extraordinarily restrictive, but you have a crap ton of tubing in the mix as well.

each sharp 90 degree turn is ~ -1.5ft of pump head, with a rough aproximation you have at least 20 ft of head pressure eaten up on that single loop monstrosity that you've got just at the board, nevermind the tubing length.

Those Eheim pumps are pretty weak (only 6.6ft of head pressure!) what you need my friend is an industrial iwaki to get decent flow rates with this setup. Unfortunately this is just not feasible, you're going to start blowing your blocks and radiator.

you really need to:

A) cut down the length of tubing
B) split into multiple loops

I don't even know where to begin with it honestly. What kinda budget for alterations are we looking at?

I think it's more tubing length then 90s, I have about 20 90s in mine and flows not bad.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

heres my fully watercooled system.. saturday i removed the 3rd gtx580 in the hope of getting better flow but quite the opposite turned out.. i removed one of the 2 radiators and still low flow.. atm the flow is so bad its like the 1800gph pump is not even on

the inlet is at @ gpus and the outlet is @ raid controller

1800gph pump -> (35-38 foot tubing) -> gpus -> eheim 1250 pump -> cpu -> mobo chipsets -> mobo vrm -> ram -> raid controller -> (10 foot tubing) -> eheim 1250 pump -> (25-28 foot tubing) -> radiator -> reservoir

what you guys think? should i install another eheim 1250 between the ram and raid blocks and another eheim 1250 between the radiator and reservoir ?? will 2x more eheim 1250 help out at all?? or remove the current eheim 1250s and get 3x-4x eheim 1260 pumps instead or remove the eheim 1250s and the 1800ghp pump and just get a single quite beastly pump.. Q is.. is there such??

---

Why can't ya have the rads in the same room or out the window ? What's the temperature in Peru this time of year ?

myself i run my radbox in another room. (no fans in my PC so nice an silent) ( have 10 ft of hose connecting to it)
my system is quite as complex as yours however i can't see the flow being so low.

instead of ripping the system apart. start with dividing your system into 2 loops..
check the flow of the first loop,,, and then the second loop.
find the slower loop. then split that in 2.
it will be the fastest way to figure out in which block your loosing your flow...
unless you have to very restrictive blocks in each loop.
my 2 cents

Holy tubing Batman I totally missed the amount of tubing length specified (also, I'm really not that familiar with imperial measurements :p: ). The above posters are completely right - your system is waaaay to restrictive.

those pumps are killing you. There is a reason we moved away from pond/hydroponics pumps, they are never used in a closed system and don't have the pressure.

get yourself some updated pumps and kill some of that tubing.
there is no reason you spend the high $$ for all those bp fittings and not get a decent pump : ).

that's like one of those 100,000 dollar fiberglass jobs to make a toyota look like a Ferrari. still goes like a toyota.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xel_NaGa

I had this same problem not but last week....While this may sound like a pain... it solved all my issues. I removed one block at a time took about 30-ish mins. once I removed the troublesome block BOOM I instantly went from .5LMP to over 9LPM. My problem was my CPU block had some plastisizer and grit/gunk in it that was easily removed.

EDIT: Wait.... your current flow is near 1800GPH(30 GPM / 115LPM) ?!?!?!

Id be surprised if you could get some of those blocks to do 10GPM without them springing leaks from the pressure.

---

last time it was the cpu block it was just dripping

its a far cry from 1800gph with all the restrictions long 1/2 tubing lot of angles

no leak problem not yet anyways

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by relttem

over 70ft of tubing?..did I read that correctly?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theseeker

^ I was wondering the same.

---

its more than 70 ft.. total tubing: 90-95 ft (added to first post)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

Sounds like clogged blocks or an air bubble trapped in there somewhere.

Pull it all apart and start again. Painful, but really the only way to do it.

---

yes it behaves just like its clogged but its not.. had tons of air bubbles.. especially stagnating bubbles that just dont budge at all.. nasty!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by relttem

I wonder if the pump has enough outlet pressure to get through all of that stuff..crunching some numbers out I get "no"..but, I had to assume some stuff..

---

the pump can be fit with 1"/1" but its restricted to the 1/2" tubing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagisD

Another room placed rad ?

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparky

Honestly it sounds like you have waaaaaaaayyyy too much tubing. For such long distances you need a larger diameter tubing. Why such a long distance anyway?

---

the rads and pump are 2 rooms down.. now i moved all the pumps over there

its the reason why i went into water cooling after 7 years on air

no noise no fans no dust no rads all this crap away from the system.. system resides all alone in the living room nothing else

from the start i wanted to go with 1" tubing but its still restricted to 1/2" blocks/rads

this was critical.. i was forced to install the eheims in the living room but they gone now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

You don't have enough pumping power for that system. Not only is your cooling block setup extraordinarily restrictive, but you have a crap ton of tubing in the mix as well.

each sharp 90 degree turn is ~ -1.5ft of pump head, with a rough aproximation you have at least 20 ft of head pressure eaten up on that single loop monstrosity that you've got just at the board, nevermind the tubing length.

Those Eheim pumps are pretty weak (only 6.6ft of head pressure!) what you need my friend is an industrial iwaki to get decent flow rates with this setup. Unfortunately this is just not feasible, you're going to start blowing your blocks and radiator.

you really need to:

A) cut down the length of tubing
B) split into multiple loops

I don't even know where to begin with it honestly. What kinda budget for alterations are we looking at?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagisD

I think it's more tubing length then 90s, I have about 20 90s in mine and flows not bad.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

---

definitely not.. yeh these 1250s are weak i removed both and i separated the one rad i removed earlier into another loop with a 1250

ive cut down 4-5 feet :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dengyong

Why can't ya have the rads in the same room or out the window ? What's the temperature in Peru this time of year ?

---

if rad/s in the same room that means dust/noise/fans hell no!

lol peru?! its probably still hot.. dude im right here in the northwest us :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadHacker

myself i run my radbox in another room. (no fans in my PC so nice an silent) ( have 10 ft of hose connecting to it)
my system is quite as complex as yours however i can't see the flow being so low.

instead of ripping the system apart. start with dividing your system into 2 loops..
check the flow of the first loop,,, and then the second loop.
find the slower loop. then split that in 2.
it will be the fastest way to figure out in which block your loosing your flow...
unless you have to very restrictive blocks in each loop.
my 2 cents

---

yeh one of the rads and an eheim 1250 is now in a separate loop

all blocks are 1/2"

i have to get the reservoir higher and close the loop.. right now its on the floor same level as the rest of the system

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

Holy tubing Batman I totally missed the amount of tubing length specified (also, I'm really not that familiar with imperial measurements :p: ). The above posters are completely right - your system is waaaay to restrictive.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by penguins

those pumps are killing you. There is a reason we moved away from pond/hydroponics pumps, they are never used in a closed system and don't have the pressure.

get yourself some updated pumps and kill some of that tubing.
there is no reason you spend the high $$ for all those bp fittings and not get a decent pump : ).

that's like one of those 100,000 dollar fiberglass jobs to make a toyota look like a Ferrari. still goes like a toyota.

---

ouch! i agree :)

tell me about it.. pulling my hair out restrictive/killing me

what pump would you guys recommend ?

i could go 35x2 ft 1" tubing and even though it gets restricted to the 1/2" blocks is it worth it? does it help ?

what im going to do is separate the 2nd rad too.. might aswell

this one here that i got from frozencpu

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12...?tl=g30c95s667

the other one is this one here: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11...?tl=g30c95s667

2x eheim 1250 2x rads 2x separate loops

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

ouch! i agree :)

tell me about it.. pulling my hair out restrictive/killing me

what pump would you guys recommend ?

i could go 35x2 ft 1" tubing and even though it gets restricted to the 1/2" blocks is it worth it? does it help ?

---

You could run off an RD20 or RD30 and it'd handle your whole loop without blinking

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m0r7if3r

You could run off an RD20 or RD30 and it'd handle your whole loop without blinking

---

whats the brand ? not familiar with rd20/30

The http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...iquote_off.gif button works :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

whats the brand ? not familiar with rd20/30

---

those are giant pumps and more than u should need (also i dont think that u can get them and they run from 24V)

i would suggest
1)remove the raid card, or dont cool the back of it and cool the main chip with a swiftech part, it looks like u went all EK so u have really restrictive small blocks.

2) take the ram out

3) put the gpus in parallel (i cannot tell how u have it)

4) get some BP rotary 90 for the MB blocks, that will shorten the tubing and clear the mess

5) get a good pump like an mcp355 (ddc) with a top, or a dual mcp355 setup.

6) if u want every thing u will need 2 loops.

the brand name of it is Iwaki. ( I went dyslexic on this word for 8 years, thought it was Ikawi 2 months ago I figured it out :) )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zanzabar

those are giant pumps and more than u should need (also i dont think that u can get them and they run from 24V)

i would suggest
1)remove the raid card, or dont cool the back of it and cool the main chip with a swiftech part, it looks like u went all EK so u have really restrictive small blocks.

2) take the ram out

3) put the gpus in parallel (i cannot tell how u have it)

4) get some BP rotary 90 for the MB blocks, that will shorten the tubing and clear the mess

5) get a good pump like an mcp355 (ddc) with a top, or a dual mcp355 setup.

6) if u want every thing u will need 2 loops.

---

why wouldn't he be able to get them?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...&keyword=iwaki

I don't think you read the part of the 90 feet of tube. I really don't think the ram block or the raid card are the problem. but

I totally agree with 4, and I'm thinking he will need at least AT least, 2 355's at full blast or a couple of mcp 35x's.

2 D5 strongs @ 24v?

one way or the other, you're going to need to ditch those small time pumps and get with a real watercooling modigger.

another idea I had, esp when ppl are separating blocks is to use something like

http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=943

you can have smaller pumps on each end, and even put in more computers later on if you so choose.

got the idea from Brewing beer / the geothermal thread on here in the work logs to keep the blocks free of possible little pebbles : ).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

if rad/s in the same room that means dust/noise/fans hell no!

lol peru?! its probably still hot.. dude im right here in the northwest us :)

---

For some reason I thought you were in peru. :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OC Maximus

The http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...iquote_off.gif button works :up:

---

take a look ive used it :up: sorry im not going to include 20 quotes in one post.. only saaya does that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zanzabar

those are giant pumps and more than u should need (also i dont think that u can get them and they run from 24V)

i would suggest
1)remove the raid card, or dont cool the back of it and cool the main chip with a swiftech part, it looks like u went all EK so u have really restrictive small blocks.

2) take the ram out

3) put the gpus in parallel (i cannot tell how u have it)

4) get some BP rotary 90 for the MB blocks, that will shorten the tubing and clear the mess

5) get a good pump like an mcp355 (ddc) with a top, or a dual mcp355 setup.

6) if u want every thing u will need 2 loops.

---

i got 24v power supply no problem

1- but im using the raid card and it needs to be cooled.. used to be cooled by a 120mm fan.. will not go back to that

2- the ram needs cooling too otherwise i have to cool it by a fan

3- well first time ive used the parallel bridge instead of the serial in the pix^ and it doesnt work properly.. one card always runs hotter by ~10C than the other both: 2way sli and 3way sli

4- yeh i was thinkin of going rotary 90 on the rest but its double sworded on one hand lowers and shortens the tubing on the other adds lots of angles.. leave it as is or go all almost all rotary 90 ??

5- i will look into those pumps

6- going to 3 loops immediately

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dengyong

For some reason I thought you were in peru. :shrug:

---

no problem bro its all good :toast:

use multi quote/edit and look at the rounded fittings
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=24756

and what bock do u have on the raid card i will bet that a swiftech will be way less restrictive.

@peng. i though no1 carried them anymore but u got a link i should have checked.
@op those rd30s are beasts 1 is like 4 ddcs or something

first result on a google search, hefty price tag too.

I think 2 d5 strongs would be about the same price after tops tho.. and that thing is def better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by penguins

first result on a google search, hefty price tag too.

I think 2 d5 strongs would be about the same price after tops tho.. and that thing is def better.

---

the d5 is larger, weaker and costs more than the ddc though

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

the rads and pump are 2 rooms down.. now i moved all the pumps over there

its the reason why i went into water cooling after 7 years on air

no noise no fans no dust no rads all this crap away from the system.. system resides all alone in the living room nothing else

from the start i wanted to go with 1" tubing but its still restricted to 1/2" blocks/rads

this was critical.. i was forced to install the eheims in the living room but they gone now

---

I understand you are limited to 1/2" at the blocks, but using fat tubing for the long runs will help tremendously as those long runs at 1/2" is what is really murdering you (aside from not strong enough pumps to go with it). Larger tubing won't have as much pressure drop per foot as thinner tubing, so you'll have more left at the computer where you need it.

I don't think the RD30 is like 4 DDC's, more like 2 to 2.5, I have one and it was a little stronger than my dual D5's. The thing is that it has a lot of head pressure and with that amount of tubing it would be better than going dual DDC's. Not sure about the Dual D5 strongs, Martin seems to like those and that might be the ticket in this situation. You could always do two RD30's and separate your loop into two. Not sure if you have a budget for this or not.

zanzabar, I was talking about the D5 Strong, not regular D5. and wasn't compairing ddc's at all. I love ddc's.

I also was agreeing with you that it would cost way more than needed, but They would be a great pair for this application.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zanzabar

use multi quote/edit and look at the rounded fittings
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=24756

and what bock do u have on the raid card i will bet that a swiftech will be way less restrictive.

@peng. i though no1 carried them anymore but u got a link i should have checked.
@op those rd30s are beasts 1 is like 4 ddcs or something

---

koolance chc125+mvr40 w/ 107.5mm plates
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=663

which swiftech model comparable to above that would fit ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by penguins

first result on a google search, hefty price tag too.

I think 2 d5 strongs would be about the same price after tops tho.. and that thing is def better.

---

guys i paid 250$ for the "1800gph" pump.. surprisingly i found it here locally and i needed a pump that evening

it's not money it's what it is designed for.we're just talking about performance / price of the iwaki vs some laings

those koolance blocks are quite restrictive.

and u got an aquarium pump they have no pressure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparky

I understand you are limited to 1/2" at the blocks, but using fat tubing for the long runs will help tremendously as those long runs at 1/2" is what is really murdering you (aside from not strong enough pumps to go with it). Larger tubing won't have as much pressure drop per foot as thinner tubing, so you'll have more left at the computer where you need it.

---

ill have to go to 1" tubing asap

thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utnorris

I don't think the RD30 is like 4 DDC's, more like 2 to 2.5, I have one and it was a little stronger than my dual D5's. The thing is that it has a lot of head pressure and with that amount of tubing it would be better than going dual DDC's. Not sure about the Dual D5 strongs, Martin seems to like those and that might be the ticket in this situation. You could always do two RD30's and separate your loop into two. Not sure if you have a budget for this or not.

---

i got no flow i got nothing so im willing to go even higher than the rd30 price tag

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by penguins

zanzabar, I was talking about the D5 Strong, not regular D5. and wasn't compairing ddc's at all. I love ddc's.

I also was agreeing with you that it would cost way more than needed, but They would be a great pair for this application.

---

do they have rd40 rd50 coming up any time soon ? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by penguins

the brand name of it is Iwaki. ( I went dyslexic on this word for 8 years, thought it was Ikawi 2 months ago I figured it out :) )



why wouldn't he be able to get them?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...&keyword=iwaki

I don't think you read the part of the 90 feet of tube. I really don't think the ram block or the raid card are the problem. but

I totally agree with 4, and I'm thinking he will need at least AT least, 2 355's at full blast or a couple of mcp 35x's.

2 D5 strongs @ 24v?

one way or the other, you're going to need to ditch those small time pumps and get with a real watercooling modigger.

another idea I had, esp when ppl are separating blocks is to use something like

you can have smaller pumps on each end, and even put in more computers later on if you so choose.

got the idea from Brewing beer / the geothermal thread on here in the work logs to keep the blocks free of possible little pebbles : ).

---

thanks lol

so one is not going to cut it ?

they say theyre easy on your ears.. big plus! cause the "1800gph" is very noisy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zanzabar

those koolance blocks are quite restrictive.

and u got an aquarium pump they have no pressure.

---

thanks ill look into swiftech blocks

yeh the pump is a joke

well guys finally tonight an hour ago i was able to get better flow.. barely decent.. nothing budged until i removed the tubing that was connected to the eheim 1250.. once the gpu got connected to cpu and only after i reversed the flow finally the flow got jump started.. and right now is the same flow gpu in raid out but in order to get better decent flow id have to reverse it.. in which case the ek cpu block is the culprit

idk how long it will last by morning it may go back to pissing droplets

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3/sam0939u.jpg

the eheim 1250 are gone from the system loop

I assumed 3/8 tubing. By looking at that chart you can see that the max head is 15ft -from that you can get an outlet velocity and then a pressure drop across 74ft of tubing.. I didn't take into consideration any of the 90's/blocks. I was just curious if it could make it through the tubing.

Well, if you think the CPU block is the culprit, pull it out and make sure it is not clogged. I was having flow issues to the point my RD30 would barely give me 1.2Gpm. After troubleshooting the issue I found that the CPU block was clogged. Fixed my flow issue.

ok guys.. when u have large areas u need to cover.. ie.. rad in another room, the best way to handle it is to use a TANK in the room with the computer, and have the tank feed 2 ways.

1 -> computer
2 -> radiator


having 70 feet in tubing in serial is like WOW... u trying to build a space elevator out of tubing? :rofl:


Seriously... have the tank fed to the room.
Have a large rad cooling the tank constantly... basically feeding the radiator and back to the tank.

Then have your pumps feed from that tank to blocks and back to the tank.


The loop with the radiator will do all the heat exchanging for you without needed restrictions.
Then you can focus on smaller loops from the tank -> PC -> tank.

that's a pretty good idea...
considering i have 2 PC running... each with their own radbox.
the only down side i can see is if both machines are asleep then the loop to the rad will keep running....
unless of course there is temperature monitoring. then the rad box would only need to turn on when the water temperature rose above a certain level.
well gets me thinking for a summer project:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadHacker

that's a pretty good idea...
considering i have 2 PC running... each with their own radbox.
the only down side i can see is if both machines are asleep then the loop to the rad will keep running....
unless of course there is temperature monitoring. then the rad box would only need to turn on when the water temperature rose above a certain level.
well gets me thinking for a summer project:D

---

not a problem..

your rad loop can run constantly..

Since its in another room, u wont hear it.. at most you'll hear the pump inside the res which is turning the water to your radiator.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

not a problem..

your rad loop can run constantly..

Since its in another room, u wont hear it.. at most you'll hear the pump inside the res which is turning the water to your radiator.

---

i'm thinking more of saving on electricity.
if my systems are sleeping. then there is no point...
especialy if i have everything i need already to control stuff...
except for mabe a relay to turn the pumps on/off.

as for noise... i won't hear it...
the rad box is in the laundry room next door... and as it is i can't hear the washer/dryer through the 6" sound proof wall :D

Naekuh, that's a genius idea, love it. It definitely would be a lot less restricted and depending on the size of the tank, the water may not move much in temp due to the shear volume. As far as running all the time, not sure if a 12v pump running constantly would really use much electricity, maybe $10 a month at worse case.

well I'm a redundancy kind of person.
i currently have 2 pumps in each of my rad boxes that goes to each machine.
so just thinking about it i would then need to have 2 more pumps.
for a total of 6 pumps.
2 pumps for the radBox to tank, 2 pumps to each of the machines it watercooling.
almost seems kinda ridiculous. but if any 1 pump fails... well nothing dies.

edit: for the extra cost... what does it buy me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadHacker

well I'm a redundancy kind of person.
i currently have 2 pumps in each of my rad boxes that goes to each machine.
so just thinking about it i would then need to have 2 more pumps.
for a total of 6 pumps.
2 pumps for the radBox to tank, 2 pumps to each of the machines it watercooling.
almost seems kinda ridiculous. but if any 1 pump fails... well nothing dies.

edit: for the extra cost... what does it buy me?

---

no no no your looking at the system as 1 big system.

When instead its 2 active systems fighting for equalibirum.

The system which is tank -> rad -> tank... can be kept small, and on bigger diameter tubing.

since flow controls how much heat is carried and dump'd, obviously bigger tubing, using a fish pump to a car rad, or some type of rad of that size is going to have a tiny flow drop.

This is system 1.

System 2, is from the tank to your computers.

Now assume... each of your system is taking 1gpm of flow..
That means 2 systems u got 2 gpm of flow going back into the tank.

Your tank will have way more X gpm of flow to the rad and back, if u designed it right.


As you can see your tank will be kept at close to ambient at all times unless u have an insane massive heat dump going on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

no no no your looking at the system as 1 big system.

When instead its 2 active systems fighting for equalibirum.

The system which is tank -> rad -> tank... can be kept small, and on bigger diameter tubing.

since flow controls how much heat is carried and dump'd, obviously bigger tubing, using a fish pump to a car rad, or some type of rad of that size is going to have a tiny flow drop.

This is system 1.

System 2, is from the tank to your computers.

Now assume... each of your system is taking 1gpm of flow..
That means 2 systems u got 2 gpm of flow going back into the tank.

Your tank will have way more X gpm of flow to the rad and back, if u designed it right.


As you can see your tank will be kept at close to ambient at all times unless u have an insane massive heat dump going on.

---

right but your still snafu if 1 pump fails without redundancy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadHacker

right but your still snafu if 1 pump fails without redundancy

---

lol... thats true on any system.

Now u see why in my system.. 5/6 pumps alone with 2 complete loops would have to fail b4 i reach a oh snap situation. :rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by relttem

I assumed 3/8 tubing. By looking at that chart you can see that the max head is 15ft -from that you can get an outlet velocity and then a pressure drop across 74ft of tubing.. I didn't take into consideration any of the 90's/blocks. I was just curious if it could make it through the tubing.

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lol indeed it does though at low pressure

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

Well, if you think the CPU block is the culprit, pull it out and make sure it is not clogged. I was having flow issues to the point my RD30 would barely give me 1.2Gpm. After troubleshooting the issue I found that the CPU block was clogged. Fixed my flow issue.

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the thing about the ek supreme hf block is that the flow is greater thru the outlet much lower thru the inlet

have you guys used without a jet plate ?

id like to try without the jet plate.. on my system it hinders flow rather than better cool the cpu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

ok guys.. when u have large areas u need to cover.. ie.. rad in another room, the best way to handle it is to use a TANK in the room with the computer, and have the tank feed 2 ways.

1 -> computer
2 -> radiator


having 70 feet in tubing in serial is like WOW... u trying to build a space elevator out of tubing? :rofl:


Seriously... have the tank fed to the room.
Have a large rad cooling the tank constantly... basically feeding the radiator and back to the tank.

Then have your pumps feed from that tank to blocks and back to the tank.


The loop with the radiator will do all the heat exchanging for you without needed restrictions.
Then you can focus on smaller loops from the tank -> PC -> tank.

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lol the other day when both rads were in the single loop it was more than 100 ft tubing :D

thats exactly how i have it now.. the eheim 1250s only serve the 2 rads which cools the tank which feeds the system loop

how big of a tank would you guys recommend for a fast mixture of the different liquid temps ? 1 2 gallon? 5 gallon tank?

before i buy rd30 a few things.. why are you guys selling off your rd30? not good/powerful enough? whats up with rd30? whats the bad?

rd30 has 3/4" fittings so if i go with an rd30 than ill retube the 70-75 ft long current 1/2" tubing to 70-75 ft 3/4" tubing + 2x 3/4" to 5/8" adapters and its done!

or instead of rd30 go with a really big/industrial/automotive pump?

or would rd30 be suffice/offer proper flow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

before i buy rd30 a few things.. why are you guys selling off your rd30? not good/powerful enough? whats up with rd30? whats the bad?

rd30 has 3/4" fittings so if i go with an rd30 than ill retube the 70-75 ft long current 1/2" tubing to 70-75 ft 3/4" tubing + 2x 3/4" to 5/8" adapters and its done!

or instead of rd30 go with a really big/industrial/automotive pump?

or would rd30 be suffice/offer proper flow?

---

Nothing wrong with the RD-30 at all, its just overkill for most users. for you its EXACTLY what you need.

Your pump is too powerful. Yes you read that right! 1800 gph is a LOT of flow but you don't need that. In order to get water through your system you simply need more pressure. Those Danner pumps are for circulation - they are essentially a power head on steroids. 180W is a LOT of power as well which gets transferred to the loop! :eek:

You need a pump rated for more pressure but much lower flow rates - try 400 gph for starters. If you want a larger pump they make pressure rated pumps for injector (venturi) protein skimmers that will have a 60' head shut off pressure. Beware that you probably want to keep your operating pressure below 30 psig or so. Higher pressures encourage leaks/creeping. If you have a pump capable of developing significant pressure a relief valve plumbed into a bypass loop is a good idea.

Magnetic driven pumps need 120V sinusoidal power to run reliably. Unless it uses and electric motor to spin a cylindrical magnet around a well with the impeller.

Lots of hose/tubing will not offer excessive backpressure if the run is predominately horizontal. (providing the diameter is sufficient) 25mm ID hose for the lazy leg runs would be a good start, then adapt down to common sizes/fittings used for pc water cooling, etc.

thanks sniipe_dogg thanks rubycon i appreciate it guys

yesterday afternoon went out to home depot to get 3/4" tubing ended up getting 1" maybe shouldve stuck to 3/4" idk i will see once i have a push and pull pumps.. hopefully it was all worth it

from system to the 1/2" to 1" compression in the corner ~9 ft x2 1/2" tubing from there to the pump/tank ~24 ft x2 1" tubing..overall shorten by 2-3 ft x2

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4927/33558238.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/451/34365309.jpg
http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/7884/57019750.jpg

the 1" tubing the 1800gph pump doesnt like.. barely any pressure at all.. blue screens/reboots/etc. system stability went out the window.. had to go to the 3/4" fitting+tubing

does rd30 perform better on 1" or 3/4" tubing ?? if 3/4" ill have to go all 3/4" more $ ill have to spend

gotta love liquid cooling

got one rd30 (definitely need another) today just finished up and heres how the flow looks like..

while the flow slightly better than the '1800gph' though @ higher pressure now and the noise level difference day and night.. overall way better than before..

when i turn on the flotec transfer pump things get moving.. as suggested i need another rd30

thank you all for all your suggestions much appreciated :toast:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8154/28015006.jpg
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4509/38867316.jpg
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1528/78107071.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7396/12434251.jpg

did you ever check if any of your blocks are clogged?
if you don't want to do a full tear down...
just check your flow near your PC, use a bucket instead and just see how much flow you have going through.

not yet.. i just reversed the flow back and forth..

alright i will try that later today..

thanks MadHacker

got a second rd30 and as you can see the whole problem lies at the godamn cpu block theres no restriction at any of the other blocks

this problem will not go away by simply cleaning off the trapped gunk this block requires weekly maintenance

can i remove the jetplate ? the first time i cleaned off the block i replaced the factory one with the high flow one but the damned thing still clogs up

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5007/68884495.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/180/56808875.jpg

Whats up with those deflated tubes? :O

Yep, the tubing doesn't look right... Shouldn't affect performance much, I guess, though, but still...

Holy crap, my wife would kill me if I did that.... looks like fun though.

Even if you remove the jet plate, whatever non-soluble crap is in your loop will clog the pins. I would use new distilled water only plus Pt nuke/biocide, and maybe 4 Koolance? quick connects and an inline high flow filter, run it for a few days with filter to trap any residual crap and suffer bad flow for few days while filter is in, and then via quick connects remove the filter and snap back together (use male/female for filter and line). If your tubing is not plasticizer free, then I wouldnt waste time and money doing that, since more plasticizer from tubing will be an ongoing problem. Also if you have thermochill rads, or flux problems, I would make sure rads are very clean.

and the compressed tubing does look like an issue, too thin walled?

Looks like your tubs are being restricted by the suction pressure of your pumps. Try changing to something more rigid, and for the long runs use some PVC. Do some tests to see what works best!

I think your problem is inlet restriction. A lot of centrifugal pumps can't handle restriction on the inlet. The D30's have just exacerbated the problem; they have more suction, but that just crushes the tubing and makes the inlet MORE restrictive. Looking at your tubing, I'm pretty confident that if you put a reservoir directly before your pumps (with very, very short hose runs, or pipes instead if you can do that) you'll solve the whole problem and, with that much pressure, maybe blow some gaskets)

[Edit:] I don't think the CPU block will cause a problem once you fix your inlet restriction. You might even be able to get away with a single loop.

Don't think I've ever seen tubing do what's in those pictures. And if your loop is clogging up weekly, you got other problems.

I have a remote rad set up , not to your scale , 8'down -8'up
-I put 1 655 in the case and 1 at the rads to balance the push\pull pressure most pumps push better than draw.

-can't tell by the pic's if both pumps are at the top[ up stairs] or low ,[downstairs]
-Try moving one pump downstairs and one upstairs -I take from the pic's your upstairs and the tube crush[crushed by air pressure-not sucking] is from pulling the water up to that height maybe.
just saying
-maybe cpu[system]>inlet upstairs pump[1\2"]outlet>[1"]down to rads>[res.?]inlet lower pump >[1\2"]up to system[1"] ?-might make up for the thin wall tube-open for debate for sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Annirak

they have more suction, but that just crushes the tubing

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by UNTAMED

[crushed by air pressure-not sucking]

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The suction, though, is what reduces the internal pressure to the point where the air pressure can crush the tubing. But this is not relevant to the point. The point is that you need to have a low resistance path on the input of the pump. The easiest way to do this is to put a reservoir in front of it.

Also, the output of a pump is definitely low resistance, so cascaded pumps will not have an issue anywhere but on the first pump.

[[The point is that you need to have a low resistance path on the input of the pump.]]
-just saying
-putting a pump up and one down cuts resistance in half\50% does it not ?
-where I,m at loss is that it's greater than 32'[I think] is the max any pump in the world can draw [@sea level?],so how -say a 2psi drop on the block's\tube relate[down-up]- scaled down in a closed loop on these low pressure pumps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UNTAMED

-putting a pump up and one down cuts resistance in half\50% does it not ?
-where I,m at loss is that it's greater than 32'[I think] is the max any pump in the world can draw [@sea level?],so how -say a 2psi drop on the block's\tube relate[down-up]- scaled down in a closed loop on these low pressure pumps.

---

The resistance of a loop is the same no matter where you put the pumps. Think of it as pressure gains and pressure losses. The pumps are both pressure gains, any tubing or blocks are pressure losses.

Here's one weird thing:
*Water flowing UP a vertical tube incurs a pressure LOSS of the pressure of a water column the height of the tube PLUS the pressure loss of the tube.
*Water flowing DOWN a vertical tube incurs a pressure GAIN the pressure of a water column the height of the tube MINUS the pressure loss of the tube.

Which means a vertical loop, is exactly the same as a horizontal loop. Remember that absolute pressure usually doesn't matter, provided you don't do what the OP did and get the pressure so low that atmospheric pressure crushes your tubing. This is why siphons work.

Most of this is irrelevant since, from the pics he's posted, the OP's layout is completely flat.

Also remember that you can't have a block so restrictive that NO coolant flows. (well, you can, it's just a completely plugged one). Fluid resistances are dependent on the flow rate, so as the flow rate drops, so does the resistance.

it was a good way to find the clog ^

last night i started the long haul of redoing everything all over again

the guys @ ek must really love this gunk stuff compacted in their cpu block.. i should pack it up and send it over

:shakes: after thousands of $ wasted sleepless nights frustration to the wahoo i only have myself to blame since i didnt remove the plate right from the beginning as that little voice inside told me.. "idiota remove that crap" no no its called a jet plate and itll jet sheat out to the moon

right now im more concerned about the system not booting up after it booted earlier.. i thought my areca 1231 raid bally up i really thought it was gone.. just found out its still alive and kicking.. but i got no clue about the mobo cpu ram gpus.. if the system doesnt boot by tomorrow im fooked! i mustve missed a wet spot on the mobo idk cause it booted up and started acting up the raid card was saying check the pci bus.. then even my backup system didnt want to boot up only after many attempts.. its been a long 24 hours

well what can i say i got flow and pressure now @ only 1x iwaki rd30.. it cuts thru all the 80 ft tubing/8 blocks+sli bridge/countless 90s like knife thru butter

if no boot tomorrow.. on to giga x58a-oc

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/5250/88530700.jpg
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http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9364/91026757.jpg
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http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2149/75923284.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2329/94876762.jpg

Dude the EK block doesnt create that crap - you have it floating round in your loop and its filtering it. Your choice is either to replace all the coolant and clean everything out or fit an inline filter for a couple of days.

Adding to the pump discussion, and Naekuh's idea:

Since you have the radbox, fans pumps in the other room, skip the 12/24v pumps and get iwakis MD (120/220v) pumps instead. I believe the MD30-RZ is cheaper than the ~ RD30
The MD is physically abit bigger and might vibrate abit more, but that shouldnt matter since its in another room.
The MD30-RZ have 8meters head pressure.
That might be overkill, so maybe MD20-RZ is plenty with 4.6M heead pressure. Just make shure its the RZ version, as they have more head than R or RX.
The MD20 is 40w and the MD30 is 70w (im looking at the 220v version)

So my suggestion is to go with the tank like Neakuh said, hooking both your computers up to it, and all the rads in the same loop connected to the tank with a iwaki MD30-RZ (the high flow of this pump might help mix the hot and cold water in the tank)
then use 2 MCP35X in the computer loop (you still have some extra feets of tubing to/from the tank and quite alot of blocks in your loop +the redundancy)

Edit: Throw a filter in the iwaki loop while your at it. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wez

Whats up with those deflated tubes? :O

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zalbard

Yep, the tubing doesn't look right... Shouldn't affect performance much, I guess, though, but still...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rge

Holy crap, my wife would kill me if I did that.... looks like fun though.

Even if you remove the jet plate, whatever non-soluble crap is in your loop will clog the pins. I would use new distilled water only plus Pt nuke/biocide, and maybe 4 Koolance? quick connects and an inline high flow filter, run it for a few days with filter to trap any residual crap and suffer bad flow for few days while filter is in, and then via quick connects remove the filter and snap back together (use male/female for filter and line). If your tubing is not plasticizer free, then I wouldnt waste time and money doing that, since more plasticizer from tubing will be an ongoing problem. Also if you have thermochill rads, or flux problems, I would make sure rads are very clean.

and the compressed tubing does look like an issue, too thin walled?

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vinas

Looks like your tubs are being restricted by the suction pressure of your pumps. Try changing to something more rigid, and for the long runs use some PVC. Do some tests to see what works best!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annirak

I think your problem is inlet restriction. A lot of centrifugal pumps can't handle restriction on the inlet. The D30's have just exacerbated the problem; they have more suction, but that just crushes the tubing and makes the inlet MORE restrictive. Looking at your tubing, I'm pretty confident that if you put a reservoir directly before your pumps (with very, very short hose runs, or pipes instead if you can do that) you'll solve the whole problem and, with that much pressure, maybe blow some gaskets)

[Edit:] I don't think the CPU block will cause a problem once you fix your inlet restriction. You might even be able to get away with a single loop.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolf132

Don't think I've ever seen tubing do what's in those pictures. And if your loop is clogging up weekly, you got other problems.

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Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UNTAMED

I have a remote rad set up , not to your scale , 8'down -8'up
-I put 1 655 in the case and 1 at the rads to balance the push\pull pressure most pumps push better than draw.

-can't tell by the pic's if both pumps are at the top[ up stairs] or low ,[downstairs]
-Try moving one pump downstairs and one upstairs -I take from the pic's your upstairs and the tube crush[crushed by air pressure-not sucking] is from pulling the water up to that height maybe.
just saying
-maybe cpu[system]>inlet upstairs pump[1\2"]outlet>[1"]down to rads>[res.?]inlet lower pump >[1\2"]up to system[1"] ?-might make up for the thin wall tube-open for debate for sure.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annirak

The suction, though, is what reduces the internal pressure to the point where the air pressure can crush the tubing. But this is not relevant to the point. The point is that you need to have a low resistance path on the input of the pump. The easiest way to do this is to put a reservoir in front of it.

Also, the output of a pump is definitely low resistance, so cascaded pumps will not have an issue anywhere but on the first pump.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UNTAMED

[[The point is that you need to have a low resistance path on the input of the pump.]]
-just saying
-putting a pump up and one down cuts resistance in half\50% does it not ?
-where I,m at loss is that it's greater than 32'[I think] is the max any pump in the world can draw [@sea level?],so how -say a 2psi drop on the block's\tube relate[down-up]- scaled down in a closed loop on these low pressure pumps.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annirak

The resistance of a loop is the same no matter where you put the pumps. Think of it as pressure gains and pressure losses. The pumps are both pressure gains, any tubing or blocks are pressure losses.

Here's one weird thing:
*Water flowing UP a vertical tube incurs a pressure LOSS of the pressure of a water column the height of the tube PLUS the pressure loss of the tube.
*Water flowing DOWN a vertical tube incurs a pressure GAIN the pressure of a water column the height of the tube MINUS the pressure loss of the tube.

Which means a vertical loop, is exactly the same as a horizontal loop. Remember that absolute pressure usually doesn't matter, provided you don't do what the OP did and get the pressure so low that atmospheric pressure crushes your tubing. This is why siphons work.

Most of this is irrelevant since, from the pics he's posted, the OP's layout is completely flat.

Also remember that you can't have a block so restrictive that NO coolant flows. (well, you can, it's just a completely plugged one). Fluid resistances are dependent on the flow rate, so as the flow rate drops, so does the resistance.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PiLsY

Dude the EK block doesnt create that crap - you have it floating round in your loop and its filtering it. Your choice is either to replace all the coolant and clean everything out or fit an inline filter for a couple of days.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

Adding to the pump discussion, and Naekuh's idea:

Since you have the radbox, fans pumps in the other room, skip the 12/24v pumps and get iwakis MD (120/220v) pumps instead. I believe the MD30-RZ is cheaper than the ~ RD30
The MD is physically abit bigger and might vibrate abit more, but that shouldnt matter since its in another room.
The MD30-RZ have 8meters head pressure.
That might be overkill, so maybe MD20-RZ is plenty with 4.6M heead pressure. Just make shure its the RZ version, as they have more head than R or RX.
The MD20 is 40w and the MD30 is 70w (im looking at the 220v version)

So my suggestion is to go with the tank like Neakuh said, hooking both your computers up to it, and all the rads in the same loop connected to the tank with a iwaki MD30-RZ (the high flow of this pump might help mix the hot and cold water in the tank)
then use 2 MCP35X in the computer loop (you still have some extra feets of tubing to/from the tank and quite alot of blocks in your loop +the redundancy)

Edit: Throw a filter in the iwaki loop while your at it. :)

---

yes the eheim pumps and radiators were immediately removed from the loop and since then are in a separate loop that just feed the 5 gallon tank

oh it deflated even further than whats in the pic ^ :)

right now its still just one iwaki rd30 in the system loop and no need for a second one

how loud is the 120v iwaki md30-rz ? louder/about the same as rd30 ?

well the ek block surely doesnt create that crap ^ but it surely traps it :up: the design is stupendously flawed.. idk whos copying who/who came up with such amazing concept but there should be ample space between the jetplate and fins but there is none! just a perfect trap for anything flowing thru the loop.. oh forget it! it has been removed! i could care less!

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thermal pads mustve gotten soaked cause it took all this time several days for everything to dry up.. i thought it all got fried up but everything is good

heres how well the loop worx now after a run of heaven 2.5 benchmark @ high quality settings/overclocked/overvolted.. delta of just ~17 C good??

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6327/29978676.png

and heres shogun2 @ 20C cooler than before

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/244...1484166.th.png

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

well i would like to thank you all for all your suggestions you guys have guided me and put me on the right track thats for sure and the systems running like a champ now

much appreciated :toast:

unless you're expecting sub ambient temps, why use that crap in the loop?

glad it works for you : ) sounds like you might as well change to an older or cheaper block without a jetplane then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NapalmV5

well the ek block surely doesnt create that crap ^ but it surely traps it :up: the design is stupendously flawed.. idk whos copying who/who came up with such amazing concept but there should be ample space between the jetplate and fins but there is none! just a perfect trap for anything flowing thru the loop.. oh forget it! it has been removed! i could care less![/B]

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You removed the plate and gasket completely?
How much does that affect temperatures?
It looks like you have the highest flow (4?) plate installed. The new blocks have the high performing (aka high restriction!) (1) with just two slits. :eek:

That's a lot of FOD in your coolant though. For a minute I thought I saw a leaf in there. :ROTF: