WC Dilemma

I have a problem and a possible solution, was hoping to get some input here.

Ten months ago I bought the following setup (to cool an OC'ed I7-920) all from sidewinder:

Swiftech Apogee XT CPU waterblock
Swiftech MCP355 pump
XSPC Acrylic Dual 5.25in Reservoir for Laing DDC (MCP355)
HW Labs Black Ice SR1 360 Carbon Black Triple 120mm Radiator
Bitspower fittings
MiniNG controller to control pump speed

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/1597/clbundle2.jpg

The problem is that it gave me migraine headaches, that MCP355 has the nastiest little metallic sound that would just get into my head and by the end of each day my ears would be ringing so bad it made me consider heroin.

Even after I got the MiniNG and undervolted the pump I could still hear it.

Anyway, fast forward to today, I have a completely different rig. I even bought a new case. You can see my setup in my sig, sandy bridge, Raven RV02-B.

This time I am going for super-quiet, but I'm not quite at nirvana yet. My cooler is the V6GT and once I fire up prime95 those two fans are at 2200RPM (think Jet Propelled Aircraft).

So here is my basic question, can I mod the WC setup I have to be super-silent and more efficient ?

I'm thinking of keeping most of what I have and getting an MCP655 with speed control and an acrylic res foam mounted in the hard drive cage of my RV02.

Question of the day: would it be quieter?

a MCP655 with speed control with a DD moonsoon at level 2 you can't hear btw

You should also look into a case and fans that you can mount at the bottom of your case and look to get a fan controler good way to control the speed. Also if you mount your rads inside the case over outside it will be quite.

If its cpu only then look at the EK DCP 2.2. I have to touch it to tell its on even at 12v. Its also very cheap :).

Noise is subjective per person but I'm a quiet freak also and consider my hearing fairly sensitive. At what percentage were you running your pump at? I run mine also with a miniNG and it's pretty much inaudible up to about 95% and then it's still pretty quiet. It might be the res you have it mounted to is making it louder than normal. With a cpu only loop you can probably run that pump at 60-70% and still have good flow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Noise is subjective per person but I'm a quiet freak also and consider my hearing fairly sensitive. At what percentage were you running your pump at? I run mine also with a miniNG and it's pretty much inaudible up to about 95% and then it's still pretty quiet. It might be the res you have it mounted to is making it louder than normal. With a cpu only loop you can probably run that pump at 60-70% and still have good flow.

---

Yes, I too think it may be the res. I was running it at about 60% (3000RPM) and even when I had it lower I could hear the electronic whine of the pump. It was driving me mad!

I'm thinking an MCP655 at level 2 placed on foam down at the bottom in the HD cage with a res top may be the solution.

Have you taken the little MCP355 apart and cleaned the whiter ceramic ball off and the impeller hole that ride on the white ball?

Once cleaned, place a drop or two of 3in1 oil or propylene glycol onto the white ball and then immediately place the impeller onto it and rotate by hand left-right-left. Then let it sit a minute or two. Now reassembly the pump.

Are you running just straight water and kill coil? If so, the pump has no real lubricating properties for the maglev riding on the ceramic ball in that loop mixture. Just a little propylene glycol in the loop can make wonders for silencing a pump.

The MCP655 will be no different running at speed 2 and may need to go faster for cooling. You might as well get a MCP350 if the MCP655 is at speed 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ugotd8

Yes, I too think it may be the res. I was running it at about 60% (3000RPM) and even when I had it lower I could hear the electronic whine of the pump. It was driving me mad!

I'm thinking an MCP655 at level 2 placed on foam down at the bottom in the HD cage with a res top may be the solution.

---

I'd try the cheaper option of a different res and top before purchasing a new pump.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

I'd try the cheaper option of a different res and top before purchasing a new pump.

---

+1 :up:

Awesome suggestions. Thanks so much guys.

I'm going to do some pump maintenance per suggestion here. I'll start researching a better top and res.

Dumb question, I've been running without a kill-coil just a few drops of Petra's biocide with distilled water. I assume I should get a kill-coil for the next go around for my loop ?

655s are fairly quiet even at top speed

the whine you describe is probably not normal, though. I bet if you simply got another DDC, you'd get one that doesn't whine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

+1 :up:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

I'd try the cheaper option of a different res and top before purchasing a new pump.

---

Something like this ? EK-DDC X-RES 100 http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=22867

That would do, also have a look at the EK multioption reservoirs, cheap..

Yeah that will work. I have one and while it's not bad, I have found one that's a little better.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27579 + http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27364 +
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=26700 + http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=26697


It's a couple bucks cheaper and looks a little bit better + it also provides a way to mount to any location that will accept a 120mm fan. This is what an 80mm long tube version looks like

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4...olance80mm.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Yeah that will work. I have one and while it's not bad, I have found one that's a little better.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27579 + http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27364 +
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=26700 + http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=26697


It's a couple bucks cheaper and looks a little bit better + it also provides a way to mount to any location that will accept a 120mm fan. This is what an 80mm long tube version looks like

---

Thanks ! That looks great. Took me a few minutes to realize the PMP-400 is a rebadged DDC. :-)

Two questions if I may, one, does the coupler have to end up where the nozzles are perpendicular to the outlet on the pump top? I'd really like them to be parallel and on the same side. Two, do you know of another shop that carries this stuff ? (Sure wish sidewinder did).

I have the pump and waterblock apart. Didn't see anything terrible on disassembly. There is what looks like light brown gunk on the top side of the impeller, very hard to get to. Also, the waterblock copper fins appear to be warped or bent at the return. Which brings up another question, did I pair the wrong waterblock with this pump ? The Apogee XT is said to be a very restrictive block (sure has one tiny opening for the inlet). This was (is) my fisrt loop and I have to admit, besides the noise it didn't really perform up to my expectations. I would obviously like to do this as inexpensive as possible, but I'm going for super-quiet with great performance if that's possible. :-)

I'm not sure about your questions regarding that res and top combo. It looks like either of the ports on the pump can be used as outlets, but not sure.

As for the pump and block being compatible, there's no perfect or wrong combo of block and pump. The Apogee wouldn't be my first choice of blocks but it's decent enough. As far as bent pins/fins that sounds like a quality control issue and nothing to do with your pump or anything you did. If it's severe enough it could be blocking flow and efficiency though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

I'm not sure about your questions regarding that res and top combo. It looks like either of the ports on the pump can be used as outlets, but not sure.

As for the pump and block being compatible, there's no perfect or wrong combo of block and pump. The Apogee wouldn't be my first choice of blocks but it's decent enough. As far as bent pins/fins that sounds like a quality control issue and nothing to do with your pump or anything you did. If it's severe enough it could be blocking flow and efficiency though.

---

Yeah, I found the QC issue threads on this block after the fact. :-) I bought it because it appeared to perform as well as the rest while to my mind being the easiest to mount since this was my first WC loop, that was important at the time. :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ugotd8

Thanks ! That looks great. Took me a few minutes to realize the PMP-400 is a rebadged DDC. :-)

Two questions if I may, one, does the coupler have to end up where the nozzles are perpendicular to the outlet on the pump top? I'd really like them to be parallel and on the same side. Two, do you know of another shop that carries this stuff ? (Sure wish sidewinder did).

I have the pump and waterblock apart. Didn't see anything terrible on disassembly. There is what looks like light brown gunk on the top side of the impeller, very hard to get to. Also, the waterblock copper fins appear to be warped or bent at the return. Which brings up another question, did I pair the wrong waterblock with this pump ? The Apogee XT is said to be a very restrictive block (sure has one tiny opening for the inlet). This was (is) my fisrt loop and I have to admit, besides the noise it didn't really perform up to my expectations. I would obviously like to do this as inexpensive as possible, but I'm going for super-quiet with great performance if that's possible. :-)

---

Not sure I correctly understand the first question. The 4 plugs on the front and the one on the top are the only places fittings will fit. Either plug on the ring can be use for an inlet (or both if you'd like). The 2 on the pump top itself, the left one is pump outlet and the right one is pump inlet if you have a requirement for a really low profile pump and don't use the res. It kind of hurts pump performance using that inlet so I don't really recommend it's use to most ppl. The top plug is mostly used for filling the res but there have been ppl that have used that location as a inlet.

The only other place I know that carries all of it is Koolance themselves.

http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...p?cPath=57_112

The 200mm tube is actually almost twice as much as what P-PCs is charging for it. I think that may be because they (P-PCs) appear to be clearing out the 60mm diameter stuff in favor of the newer 80mm diameter. I personally don't understand the reasoning behind the 80mm stuff because it's a lot bigger than the pump top and won't let you mount the pump with the bracket.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Not sure I correctly understand the first question. The 4 plugs on the front and the one on the top are the only places fittings will fit. Either plug on the ring can be use for an inlet (or both if you'd like). The 2 on the pump top itself, the left one is pump outlet and the right one is pump inlet if you have a requirement for a really low profile pump and don't use the res. It kind of hurts pump performance using that inlet so I don't really recommend it's use to most ppl. The top plug is mostly used for filling the res but there have been ppl that have used that location as a inlet.

The only other place I know that carries all of it is Koolance themselves.

http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...p?cPath=57_112

The 200mm tube is actually almost twice as much as what P-PCs is charging for it. I think that may be because they (P-PCs) appear to be clearing out the 60mm diameter stuff in favor of the newer 80mm diameter. I personally don't understand the reasoning behind the 80mm stuff because it's a lot bigger than the pump top and won't let you mount the pump with the bracket.

---

Boy do I feel dumb. The 'outlet' on the pump when I looked at the picture turns out to be the lock screw knob for the ruler on the square... doh!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ugotd8

Boy do I feel dumb. The 'outlet' on the pump when I looked at the picture turns out to be the lock screw knob for the ruler on the square... doh!

---

LOL, I had to look at it twice too before I figured that out. :rolleyes:

OK, about to click checkout on the stuff from performance PCs, any sound-proofing material there I should add ? Should I eat a Shoggy Sandwich perhaps ? ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ugotd8

Boy do I feel dumb. The 'outlet' on the pump when I looked at the picture turns out to be the lock screw knob for the ruler on the square... doh!

---

Sorry about that, I suspected as much. That's why I wrote the full description on the fitting placement...good to see I guessed right. :D

As for the Shoggy Sandwich, that's a personal preference. I've had good luck with plain old Noise Pax when setting the pump in a case.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=22491

Ordered !!! Thanks again so much. I paid a little extra for shipping to hopefully get it here before the weekend. Thanks waterlogged for saving me some cash!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Yeah that will work. I have one and while it's not bad, I have found one that's a little better.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27579 + http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=27364 +
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=26700 + http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=26697


It's a couple bucks cheaper and looks a little bit better + it also provides a way to mount to any location that will accept a 120mm fan. This is what an 80mm long tube version looks like

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4...olance80mm.jpg

---

Koolance's response as to why I can't get the coupler and pump top outlets to line up as shown in the image:

"It's also unlikely that you'll be able to get the TNK-CNTG to line up with the COV-RP400 because it wasn't designed with that in mind. You could use a TNK-CNTBS and TNK-CNT with the TNK-CNTG to allow the reservoir to swivel."

Anyone have a suggestion ?

ARGH!!!! I have plug envy.

The coupler that I ordered didn't come with any plugs and now I'm one short. :mad:

No big deal, I can cover the hole until I get a new plug.

Sure would like to get the outlet/inlet to line up tho...

Anyone have a trick for this ?

How far off are you, can you post a pic? I have 1 top and 2 couplers and they both line up like that with the top, very weird or very lucky?:shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

How far off are you, can you post a pic? I have 1 top and 2 couplers and they both line up like that with the top, very weird or very lucky?:shrug:

---

Hi, thanks for looking at this, here's the best I can do with pic...

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5116/pumps.jpg

That is hand tight there, when the outlets are lined up it's rather loose.

Well that sucks.

OK, I got a couple of ideas here. 1 is kind of expensive, 1 is cheaper, and the last is "WTF??? What are you effing smoking?". :rofl:

Expensive: If you got the non fitting coupler with the top, you can get this (Link) and then have it easily swivel around to face whichever direction you need it to.

Cheaper: You can get these (Link) (or find someplace local that sells O-rings and see if they have that size). They measure thicker than the stock ones I have here and should be enough to line you up right.

WTF??? What are you effing smoking?: I'm quite serious about this, I tried it and it works. You can take a piece of small gage wire (I used solid 26AWG with insulation) and cut a piece just long enough to cover most of the circumference of the O-Ring. Your going to have to shape it so it fits in the groove, I found it easier if I made sure it was flat by working on a flat surface and using a pair of tweezers. Once you get it to shape, lay it in the groove first then the O-Ring on top and while the coupler is upside down screw it into the pump top. If you don't have wire that size, anything the size of a light duty twist tie should suffice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Well that sucks.

OK, I got a couple of ideas here. 1 is kind of expensive, 1 is cheaper, and the last is "WTF??? What are you effing smoking?". :rofl:

Expensive: If you got the non fitting coupler with the top, you can get this (Link) and then have it easily swivel around to face whichever direction you need it to.

Cheaper: You can get these (Link) (or find someplace local that sells O-rings and see if they have that size). They measure thicker than the stock ones I have here and should be enough to line you up right.

WTF??? What are you effing smoking?: I'm quite serious about this, I tried it and it works. You can take a piece of small gage wire (I used solid 26AWG with insulation) and cut a piece just long enough to cover most of the circumference of the O-Ring. Your going to have to shape it so it fits in the groove, I found it easier if I made sure it was flat by working on a flat surface and using a pair of tweezers. Once you get it to shape, lay it in the groove first then the O-Ring on top and while the coupler is upside down screw it into the pump top. If you don't have wire that size, anything the size of a light duty twist tie should suffice.

---

Great suggestions, I'm going to get that swivel part, seems the most versatile solution for me (and for later builds too).

Got everything up and running in the wee hours this morning (I used 45degree rotaries on the pump inlet and outlet for the time being. A quick 30minute prime95 session shows a 13c drop on coretemps across the board versus my soon to be returned V6GT aircooler.

My GT AP-15s on my rad are a little loud, I've got both the pump and rad fans at full speed, no undervolting. I suppose I should invest in a fan controller. ;-)

Thanks again, I really appreciate all your help on this.

NP, good to see you got it up and running. :up:

ugotd8: you can skip buying fan controller and use few voltages that you can get out of standard molex, like except full 12V also 7V, 5V.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by churchy

ugotd8: you can skip buying fan controller and use few voltages that you can get out of standard molex, like except full 12V also 7V, 5V.

---

Wow, yet another thing I did not know and hadn't seen before. Thanks!!! After reading that, I believe the 7V mod is exactly what I'm looking for.

And to think I built my first computer in '89 with an AST case and a 386 processor and I'm still a n00b some 20 years later. :shakes:

Tricks of the trade ugot8 :D, Keep in mind though once you do the mod you cant turn the fans back to full 12V, fan controller is a better option imo as its future proof with later builds..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johnny87au

Tricks of the trade ugot8 :D, Keep in mind though once you do the mod you cant turn the fans back to full 12V, fan controller is a better option imo as its future proof with later builds..

---

Yup, knew that part of it, thanks. Finding that 3 GT AP-15's at 7V doesn't quite cut it in pull configuration on a 3x120 BlackIce SR-1. Gave me 6c higher temps on max load. I know these GTs are considered the best rad fans (esp. in pull) just gotta find the sweet spot I suppose.

Go full 12v to find the performance your after, These are great fans which run quiet as it is, I wouldnt undervolt these babys!