The true reason behind the delay of AMD Cayman 6970/6950? - you'd never wanna know

Source: http://www.chiphell.com/thread-148220-1-1.html

If you unmount the cooler of a reference card, you could notice an obvious abrasion over the corner of the inner 6/8-pin power
connector socket. No, it ain't by chance you've got a bad pick. It's common among all the popular review sites.

Yes, it's because if you don't polish that corner, you wouldn't be able to mount and install that cooler! Thus AMD spent a delay
to fix that - they polish every card by hand, therefore each card is guaranteed to be a hand-crafted unique version!

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7...tgjc2b4dtg.jpg

For comparison, here are pictures from TechPowerUp:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9883/frontiwb.jpg

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2746/front1ty.jpg

Lab 501: http://lab501.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/PCB-10.jpg
Anandtech
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/4061/6970Open.jpg

Could have been just a dumb mistake for some component measurement, probably in the next months will be fixed, but for release they had no choice?:shrug:

Bet it increased the price, too. Epic fail...
And imagine these cards coming before GTX570... They'd look much better.
Well, at least they didn't have to scrap them all! :D

God I'm lucky! I'm now the happy owner of two genuine handcrafted 6970's... :D

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Originally Posted by Rob Halford

God I'm lucky! I'm now the happy owner of two genuine handcrafted 6970's... :D

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gotta love the positiveness in that remark :D

It interferes with the fan blades, right? Otherwise they would have cut some corner on the cooler.

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Originally Posted by Mats

It interferes with the fan blades, right? Otherwise they would have cut some corner on the cooler.

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what the sh*t hit the fan :rofl:

I can imagine the panic when guys at AMD found out.

its possible that this is why. it is also possible that not all boards needed modification, so some may not have it.

lol.. didn't they made a few samples first before hitting the print 2423593 cards button ? :p

hand-crafted Radeons?
Sounds cool, I want two please. :cool::D

i cannot believe it haha-- it is rolls royce man!

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Originally Posted by Loque

lol.. didn't they made a few samples first before hitting the print 2423593 cards button ? :p

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:rofl: :ROTF:
This is how I print books...
I should work at AMD! :D

A whole new approach to high-end products, I wonder how soon it will turn into a marketing feature.

:shocked::eek: Sh*t definately hit the fan LOL :D:rofl::ROTF:
i think it would be safe to assume some people are no longer employed with AMD ::shakes:

It not very clear if this "feature" is found on review sample cards as well as retail cards.

Anyone with a retail card care to confirm ?

Dear AMD,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yours truly,

Jensen

I can just imagine how THAT convo went..

"Hey guys! I need a word. You'll never believe this! It's a hoot, trust me. Now... nothings wrong... BUT...."

Is it true :confused:

wah total fail.. can construct a ~3bill transistor chip but no cooler which actually fits on the card
someone really f*d up on measurements
heise, hardwareluxx, pcgames cards look the same..:D

You guys are also jumping to conclusions. Isn't it just as likely that they at some point decided to change which heatsink the reference model is going to come with and had to modify the power connector slightly so it would fit? My bet is that the original design fit together just fine but they made a HDF change late in the game, perhaps to enable higher clocks.

Lol. ATI your next task is to make me a hand assembled 6990 using only wire wraps.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ormat_1977.jpg

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Originally Posted by Micutzu

A whole new approach to high-end products, I wonder how soon it will turn into a marketing feature.

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Too late it just was. :rofl:

Why can't they just move the plug?

Epic!!!

LOL I must admit that's pretty funny. Probably not to the AMD employees filing off the corners though! :p

Now I want to get a retail card just to see... :rofl:

at least they were able to fix all those cards; just think of it: they've built 1000s of cards and have no way to get rid of them until partners start to use custom coolers :eek:

@sin0822: i guss that they already built ALOT of PCBs so moving the connector isn't an option...

now place your bets on how they are going to fix it:
redesign of the PCB
redesign of the cooler
new custom connectors with angled corners

i think that the cooler manufacturer screwed up, judging by the baseplate they had correct keep out areas form AMD but forgot about the fan...

:shakes: Incredible :shakes:
Double checked all the reviews and yepp sure enough everyone has it, oddly some took shots of the die and pcb but not the power connector like TechPowerUp. :rolleyes:

Officially they were "cutting it's power down some more":rofl:

Pure incompetence.

never really looked at amd as one to cut corners ;)

How much did they pay ppl to cut that part by hand :D

I woudl think a viable option woudl be to replace the cooler design with a new one, then redesign future cards with different power plug placement and then re-use all the old coolers. I think filing down/polishing all the coolers is more work and time consuming.

the next batch will probably be fixed but the release batch is probably "custom" made :rofl:

idiotic if true ...

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Originally Posted by sin0822

Why can't they just move the plug?

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pretty sure it's soldered on there pretty good. :nuts:

Yeah this is a definite oops on their part. No doubt future revisions of the card will have tweaked coolers to accommodate this, not to mention custom AIB cards won't even have this issue.

I can't believe that you all are so willing to believe that AMD first made thousands of cards and then and only then tested the cooler on the boards.
Come on guys. Perhaps the first batch was affected, or perhaps (and more probably) it is the cooler what is wrong.

Trying to make us believe that AMD has absolutely no QA control throughout the whole production process until the very last step... well it's a story that tells a lot about these sites's lack of professionalism and impartiality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ~CS~

I can imagine the panic when guys at AMD found out.

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Oh yeah, the pain!

Everyone who has ever had some kind of responsibility regarding small or large size production feels that so well! :shudder:

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Originally Posted by slaveondope

Officially they were "cutting it's power down some more":rofl:

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Powertune rev 1.0 :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Maño

I can't believe that you all are so willing to believe that AMD first made thousands of cards and then and only then tested the cooler on the boards.
Come on guys. Perhaps the first batch was affected, or perhaps (and more probably) it is the cooler what is wrong.

Trying to make us believe that AMD has absolutely no QA control throughout the whole production process until the very last step... well it's a story that tells a lot about these sites's lack of professionalism and impartiality.

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Actually I work in Quality control (14 years and counting) and true or not this sort of thing happens all of the time especially on new products and regardless of the corporation involved. This includes some multi-nationals who you think would know better.

Still find it amusing though.;)

doesn't AMD outsource production so their quality control wouldn't be that great? I am asking.

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Originally Posted by crazydiamond

never really looked at amd as one to cut corners ;)

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You, sir, win the pun of the week award.

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Originally Posted by sin0822

Why can't they just move the plug?

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By the time they caught it, at least one batch of cards was ordered and manufactured to the flawed specifications. Further, delays would have been another month or two if they did decide to trash otherwise good cards. Instead, likely before mounting all heatsinks, they found out there's a flaw and have now fully corrected said flaw.

jesus this cant be true, but then again explains the delay!! over 50,000 cards handled oh mang

Maybe it is the same reason why HD 6990 was pushed till Q1 2011
:woot:

OH MY GOD Its a conspiracy :up:

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Originally Posted by SpuTnicK

Maybe it is the same reason why HD 6990 was pushed till Q1 2011
:woot:

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lol if it is, AMD i feel your pain!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sin0822

I woudl think a viable option woudl be to replace the cooler design with a new one, then redesign future cards with different power plug placement and then re-use all the old coolers. I think filing down/polishing all the coolers is more work and time consuming.

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scratching the power connector takes more time than building thousands of new coolers. right.

how do you exist?

We really need more competition in this business. We shouldn't have to choose between these two dumb ass companies.

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Originally Posted by bamtan2

scratching the power connector takes more time than building thousands of new coolers. right.

how do you exist?

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I exist just fine. I didn't say anything about scratching a power connector I was talking about changing the design so they could use the same cooler, is it really that hard to move the power connector 2cm on a future batch?

I would say i could nick the corners on about 1000 cards easy in a day.

fail ...

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Originally Posted by SamHughe

We really need more competition in this business. We shouldn't have to choose between these two dumb ass companies.

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What are the other alternatives? Intel makes garbage graphics chips.

PowerVR makes some decent ones but they're low power. There's S3 graphics but they're not that powerful and the drivers aren't so great.

Right now, I don't see any alternative to the two dum dums running things.

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Originally Posted by Epsilon84

LOL I must admit that's pretty funny. Probably not to the AMD employees filing off the corners though! :p

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two words: Job security :rofl:

Nvidia and AMD have to much momentum , noone else can enter within a release cycle and making something competitive and profitable ahead of time is very difficult , Intel tried once in the past and by the time they had something it was outdated Intel 740, ( I remeber intel demo with some dolphins running on Intel 740 it was under 30fps :p: ) then they tried again recently with "Larrabee" and plain out canceled it. Now its some HTC ? addon card noone cares for.

Now making hardware is one thing but you also need big driver software development team. That is keeping up with progressing technologies.

In short there won't be any more competition , it can get worse , can go from two options to choose to only one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sin0822

doesn't AMD outsource production so their quality control wouldn't be that great? I am asking.

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Design Issue, not production :)



I'd say the problem was found too late for that revision.. many PCB's made already so resort to a Mod while someones head rolls.

I'm sure there'll be a Rev 1.1 or something soon (moving the plug as someone suggested)

At least it it not woodscrews

whoever did the original cad probably got fired

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mAJORD

Design Issue, not production :)



I'd say the problem was found too late for that revision.. many PCB's made already so resort to a Mod while someones head rolls.

I'm sure there'll be a Rev 1.1 or something soon (moving the plug as someone suggested)

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How do you know that, it could have still been a production issue as well

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Originally Posted by dinos22

How do you know that, it could have still been a production issue as well

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He knows because he has an opinion on the internet. :p:

chiphell's mod is nv fanboy, there's a prove

http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/p2mmao/018.jpg

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Originally Posted by mao5

chiphell's mod is nv fanboy, there's a prove

http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad18/p2mmao/018.jpg

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Oh yes, that image help me a lot, now I have no doubts :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mAJORD

Design Issue, not production :)



I'd say the problem was found too late for that revision.. many PCB's made already so resort to a Mod while someones head rolls.

I'm sure there'll be a Rev 1.1 or something soon (moving the plug as someone suggested)

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I suggested that and got owned, you might wanna take it back! lol. I am sure it is easier to have people polish the heatsinks by hand. Who even said that? Why wouldn't they just use a machine like a belt sander?

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Originally Posted by mao5

chiphell's mod is nv fanboy, there's a prove

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Actually chiphell is made of ATI/AMD fanboys. This time the mod jumped ship maybe

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Originally Posted by sniper_sung

Actually chiphell is made of ATI/AMD fanboys. This time the mod jumped ship maybe

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he jumped the ship for almost 1 and half year, the famous word he said is that " AMD is a company running by peasants"

so without peasants, what does chiphell's mod eat ? the shiitt from NV?:ROTF:

hHAHa I didn't see that is awesome

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Originally Posted by sin0822

hHAHa I didn't see that was from an nvidia account that is priceless.

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No that's not from an nvidia account. It's showing that nvidia is forwarding the thread inside the company. Look into the message which at the beginning points to the URL of the original thread.

gotcha that is what I figured, I guess if i was them I woudl do the same. You know I bet things like this happen all the time, well not to this extent but its funny how people really took note.

nvidia u serious, kinda low of them..

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Originally Posted by DeltZ

whoever did the original cad probably got fired

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Doesn't Sapphire do the reference designs?

How is it clearly a design issue? Well, Lets see..

The problem is a connector interfering with the Fan blade..

Manufacturers don't just put whatever connector, Fan, HSF they feel like, where they feel like..

The position of the holes in the PCB for the connector, and the type of connector (dimensions etc) are all specified by the engineering dept.

Same applies for the HSF and fan assembly itself. Do you think the OEM would accept a HSF assembly from its manufacturer with a fan in the wrong spot??? I think not. If the Design is right, and tollerences are achievable by the manufacturers of the various parts (PCB, Assembly, HSF) then you cannot go wrong.

Probably Some sort of last minute change to one or the other (PCB or Fan assembly) has clearly occured, and not be communicated between the two teams properly

And this is a big deal because ... ?

...some people do not like hand modded cards
lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Solus Corvus

Lol. ATI your next task is to make me a hand assembled 6990 using only wire wraps.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ormat_1977.jpg

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Holy sh*t. There is only ONE possible reason on earth why a wire-wrap card like that could exist....

crystal meth. :rofl:

Reminds me of my friends neighbor who has spent the past 9 months rebuilding his Ford Mustang's engine, typically between the hours of 11pm and 5am.... every.... single... night. For reference, I recently rebuilt the engine from neighbors mustang with the past generations 4.6L engine, and it took me two full weekends and about two hours each afternoon on weekdays after work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegras

And this is a big deal because ... ?

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Two things come to mind when such a question is posed.

1. wood screws
2. hypocracy

AMD is stupid if they paid a lot of money for the "corner cutting". I'm sure if they handed flyers on these kind of forums they'd find thousands of fanboys willing to "cut corners" for free.

Guess AMD is cutting corners too, sometimes literally. :D

Lol, why is AMD referred to as "农企"? Only peasants use AMD products?

Does anyone have more clear photos of the actual interference? It seems to me it could touch the fan casing, but the blades look a little far away....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegras

And this is a big deal because ... ?

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You don't think it's a big deal because it's with AMD, if it were on the green side...

You'd make sure it'd be a huge deal.

hah, wow this is so embarrassing...
how could they have overlooked something like this? :shakes:

man, whats going on at amd/ati?
they go for a chip the same size of cypress aiming for 480 performance when they must have KNOWN nvidia will have something faster at the end of the year, and then they cant even get the card sizes and diameters right? :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

hah, wow this is so embarrassing...
how could they have overlooked something like this? :shakes:

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Human Error - this being part of robotized mass production, the guy (probably a saboteur from nVidia) who inserted the commands got it wrong... and by time they got to assembly, who knows how many batches have they made...

Normally, this batches should have been tagged as "BAD" and make new ones instead, at least that's what some brands do to preserve their image... but guess AMD is on a tight budget if they end-up "fixing them - by this approach" instead of replacing them.

Now the thing is...yes, I find this to be quite embarassing, but as long as it does not affect the behaviour of the product, it's ok. Anyway, all my cards are like that =))

http://forum.lab501.ro/attachment.ph...4&d=1292449571

Correction - it's a flaw in design, so it's not the guy who inserted the commands for mass production. :) But still a human error - yet still a cheap approach, since they could have replace it with a new component yet they had to solder it manually - which is a longer and more expensive process... yet now one which AMD couldn't afford in terms of "budget" - more like a "time issue".

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Originally Posted by Loser777

Lol, why is AMD referred to as "农企"? Only peasants use AMD products?

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By "农企" (Peasants' Enterprise) they mean AMD isn't putting appropriate budget into their public relations. As a hardware reviewer, nApoleon always criticised how indifferent AMD was whenever they launched a new product.

FAIL!

:rofl:

Cannot believe this...cannot

Unbelievable but this explains a lot. :) No wonder bulldozer is 2 years late.

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Originally Posted by Kuroimaho

Unbelievable but this explains a lot. :) No wonder bulldozer is 2 years late.

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They probably can't figure out how to get it in the socket:up::p:

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Originally Posted by Bigchrome

They probably can't figure out how to get it in the socket:up::p:

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lol, good one.

These "shocked" posts are reminiscent of celebrity gossip news. The pointlessness of the news is equivalent and the reactions are just as exaggerated.

Yeah, who needs news.

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Originally Posted by Particle

These "shocked" posts are reminiscent of celebrity gossip news. The pointlessness of the news is equivalent and the reactions are just as exaggerated.

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lol, was just thinking this myself. Amazing how many people are "shocked" or "outraged", by something so trivial.

it looks like a "hotfix" LOL

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Originally Posted by hurrdurr

Yeah, who needs news.

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Knowing about it is good, and complaining about it is I feel warranted. People here are acting like AMD murdered their first born though. The response is simply not proportional. The "outrage" is over such a tiny matter that bears no impact on anyone or anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrew LB

Two things come to mind when such a question is posed.

1. wood screws
2. hypocracy

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Nvidia showed a fake card at a tech conference. ATI quietly delayed their launch, fixed the problem, then launched in volume.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

You don't think it's a big deal because it's with AMD, if it were on the green side...

You'd make sure it'd be a huge deal.

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Actually, no I didn't. Your over eagerness to hate on ATI shows in the fact that you didn't even spend a modicum of brain power to compare and contrast the different situations.

I must say, it does not effect my consideration of purchase one bit.

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Originally Posted by Aberration

I must say, it does not effect my consideration of purchase one bit.

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What!? - you mean, you buy a card for what it can do, not for how it looks? You're weird man! Performance is one thing - but usually in this price range the card esthetics is just as important, if not more... :rolleyes:

To bad they're not gold plated - not so shiny!!! SHHHHINYY!! :slobber:

To paraphrase one smart man, some people spend so much time hunting Fanboy Demons™, that they turn into Fanboy Demons™ themselves in the process.

looks like they buffed off a few shaders to :(

whatever really its no biggy. the cards still work right? i think they took the right approach....looks like a simple fix rather than cutting the cooler shroud or re soldering the socket.

im sure this wasnt the main cause of the delay