Hauser: ARM will 'obliterate' Intel

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ARM has declared its intentions to dominate the future of computing, declaring industry giant Intel a dead duck due to a misunderstanding of what customers want.

The comments came from ARM co-founder Hermann Hauser during an interview with The Wall Street Journal, in which he declares that 'ARM is going to kill the microprocessor.'

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http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...terate-intel/1



....pfft what ever, i may not be a fan of intel; but ARM is off its rocker.

I think all the buzz about "business model" is just an utter BS. Phone manufacturers want to buy processors, not a "paper design". They don't care if it was developed and manufactured by the same firm, or developed by one firm and manufactured by another. Price is what really matters. Curently Intel & AMD has nothing to counter ARM in phone mobile space. But it can change in near future. But lets see how long will take to ARM to match core-i7 performance.

Reading the title I thought they have a tactical nuke in the basement or something.

ARM is bigger than Intel, and Intel stepped into ARM's market. Like I said before, both Intel and AMD should be careful. ARM is probably the only company that is capable of taking them both on.

You're talking about a company that has billions and is almost entirely R&D, this isn't VIA and they won't bankrupt themselves. If they decide they want to beat the i7 they'll only do it if they make a market to sell it to. And so far they are making a decent inroads into creating that market.

I just laughed.

ARM Holdings:

Revenue £305.0 million (2009)
Operating income £45.6 million (2009)
Net income £40.4 million (2009)
Total equity US$850 million (2010)
Employees 1,700 (2010)


Intel:

Revenue US$ 35.127 billion (2009)
Operating income US$ 5.711 billion (2009)
Net income US$ 4.369 billion (2009)
Total assets US$ 53.095 billion (2009)
Total equity US$ 41.704 billion (2009)
Employees 83,500 (2008)


Intel could buy ARM for only a fraction of its profit generated last year.

Think of it this way.

AMD is about 10 times larger and Intel surely keeps AMD on its toes.

AMD:

Revenue US$5.4 billion (FY 2009)
Operating income US$664 million (FY 2009)
Net income US$293 million (FY 2009)
Total assets US$9.08 billion (FY 2009)
Total equity US$648 million (FY 2009)
Employees 10,400 – Jan 2010

im reminded of total annihilation for some reason

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Originally Posted by Iconyu

ARM is bigger than Intel, and Intel stepped into ARM's market. Like I said before, both Intel and AMD should be careful. ARM is probably the only company that is capable of taking them both on.

You're talking about a company that has billions and is almost entirely R&D, this isn't VIA and they won't bankrupt themselves. If they decide they want to beat the i7 they'll only do it if they make a market to sell it to. And so far they are making a decent inroads into creating that market.

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Are you talking about the same ARM everyone else is? :confused:

ARM taking on Intel surely made my day :p

There is a new market opportunity where arm has the advantage. Pcs became household goods they lost their magic, people buy them every 10 year. 10+ years ago you had to buy a new pc for every windows to run it properly, but since vista took microsoft an eternity to make, the people won't go back route anymore, if it's broken unusable they get a new one like other electronic items but that's about it. How often do you upgrade the oven ?

But the phones, ohh the smarphones, that's where the money is, need a new one every year, or at least every 2 years if you are a loser. What would happen if people couldn't check facebook or twitter, watch youtube from anywhere ?
Intel, AMD and NV is well aware of that market and working on entering it and the race just barely started, arm's head start is hardly a guarantee for winning especially against these players. I expect them to turn phones into netbooks, and then pcs in mere years and in that field these companies have more experience.

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Originally Posted by Iconyu

ARM is bigger than Intel, and Intel stepped into ARM's market. Like I said before, both Intel and AMD should be careful. ARM is probably the only company that is capable of taking them both on.

You're talking about a company that has billions and is almost entirely R&D, this isn't VIA and they won't bankrupt themselves. If they decide they want to beat the i7 they'll only do it if they make a market to sell it to. And so far they are making a decent inroads into creating that market.

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Originally Posted by nn_step

ARM Holdings:

Revenue £305.0 million (2009)
Operating income £45.6 million (2009)
Net income £40.4 million (2009)
Total equity US$850 million (2010)
Employees 1,700 (2010)


Intel:

Revenue US$ 35.127 billion (2009)
Operating income US$ 5.711 billion (2009)
Net income US$ 4.369 billion (2009)
Total assets US$ 53.095 billion (2009)
Total equity US$ 41.704 billion (2009)
Employees 83,500 (2008)


Intel could buy ARM for only a fraction of its profit generated last year.

Think of it this way.

AMD is about 10 times larger and Intel surely keeps AMD on its toes.

AMD:

Revenue US$5.4 billion (FY 2009)
Operating income US$664 million (FY 2009)
Net income US$293 million (FY 2009)
Total assets US$9.08 billion (FY 2009)
Total equity US$648 million (FY 2009)
Employees 10,400 – Jan 2010

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:D nice

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Originally Posted by nn_step

ARM Holdings:

Revenue £305.0 million (2009)
Operating income £45.6 million (2009)
Net income £40.4 million (2009)
Total equity US$850 million (2010)
Employees 1,700 (2010)

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Damn I really should have looked that up before making that post, I didn't realise how far off I was about their equity/income, sorry about that guys. However I still think they are the only threat on the horizon, they are definitely changing their processors to a more desktop stance.

They've taken the only option available, they've broadened their scope, because waiting for Intel to sell 22nm Atoms won't be good for them.

Please ARM, hit, hit, PASS!

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Originally Posted by nn_step

ARM Holdings:

Revenue £305.0 million (2009)
Operating income £45.6 million (2009)
Net income £40.4 million (2009)
Total equity US$850 million (2010)
Employees 1,700 (2010)


Intel:

Revenue US$ 35.127 billion (2009)
Operating income US$ 5.711 billion (2009)
Net income US$ 4.369 billion (2009)
Total assets US$ 53.095 billion (2009)
Total equity US$ 41.704 billion (2009)
Employees 83,500 (2008)


Intel could buy ARM for only a fraction of its profit generated last year.

Think of it this way.

AMD is about 10 times larger and Intel surely keeps AMD on its toes.

AMD:

Revenue US$5.4 billion (FY 2009)
Operating income US$664 million (FY 2009)
Net income US$293 million (FY 2009)
Total assets US$9.08 billion (FY 2009)
Total equity US$648 million (FY 2009)
Employees 10,400 – Jan 2010

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Arm isn't big itself but a lot of of their partners,licencee's are. Texas instruments and Qualcomm are just two of ARM's many partners and use their chips exclusively and their combined value is about the same as Intel's. Considering samsung designs(not simply buys) ARM chips, Apple too. The amount of research arms partners do is likely pretty staggering.

In 2007, 3 billion processors ARM based processors were used, a number that is likely even bigger today.

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

Arm isn't big itself but a lot of of their partners,licencee's are. Texas instruments and Qualcomm are just two of ARM's many partners and use their chips exclusively and their combined value is about the same as Intel's. Considering samsung designs(not simply buys) ARM chips, Apple too. The amount of research arms partners do is likely pretty staggering.

In 2007, 3 billion processors ARM based processors were used, a number that is likely even bigger today.

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so what you're saying is; ARM + its mates will take on intel?

They do have a point.

No one needs everything a PC can do everywhere.

Well if it comes to that, Samsung and Intel are on pretty good terms aren't they?

Intel also have Micron on-side

so...thats 3 of the Global top 10....

Is a monumental ****ing war in anyones interest? From my little understanding, for ARM to enter the conventional desktop space, they need an x86 license... they don't have that, do they? Will they get it? To take on the desktop marketshare with non-x86 they'll need their own OS that'll take on Windows and... good luck with that! There WON'T be a split of X86 and non x86... product support would be seven levels of Hell wrapped up in a room 101 bun

If i'm miles off here... shoot me down

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Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown

I just laughed.

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Reminds me of Apple for some reason. :p:

Please don't post any "so called news" like this anymore...

nVidia CEO says ATi sux

AMD CEO says nVidia sux

A CEO or other representative of some company, bashing another company - that's not news... just a political strategy appreciated by haters.

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- Threads related to politics or religion in any way will be removed

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PS.Despite the pic in my signature, I don't hate Intel - my current system and my laptop is using an intel CPU and this was one the reasons behind my purchase... I don't like their lies and shameful marketing strategies that's true - but also a different story, not hate or anti-intel related.

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Originally Posted by Iconyu

ARM is bigger than Intel, and Intel stepped into ARM's market. Like I said before, both Intel and AMD should be careful. ARM is probably the only company that is capable of taking them both on.

You're talking about a company that has billions and is almost entirely R&D, this isn't VIA and they won't bankrupt themselves. If they decide they want to beat the i7 they'll only do it if they make a market to sell it to. And so far they are making a decent inroads into creating that market.

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Bigger in what?
Intel profits could buy 3 or more ARM's together,they may be big in mobile market but Intel is atleast a few times bigger then ARM
So you're saying that all of ARM partners will get together just to takedown Intel?
Apple also uses Intel,so they won't go after them.
At the present moment and with good management for the future Intel will simply be too big to be overrun

considering things are always evolving i think ARM has a chance to make a difference.
back just a decade ago a desktop couldnt keep up with the OS and the MHZ race was on its way. but now that we have more core scaling rather than speed scaling the ability for a smaller weaker chip to do nearly the same thing is possible. the fact netbooks and tablets are the new thing instead of desktops, just imagine 4-5 years from now when things are on 22nm, a 10W chip will be the same as todays 40W chips.

you build a laptop thats not x86, but has USB ports and a clean simple to use OS, then make it cost 200$ cheaper than the competition, but does everything just as well, and we have ourselves a nice little war going.

I'd wanna see ARM CEO declare that face to face to Intel's CEO.

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Originally Posted by DMH

Bigger in what?
Intel profits could buy 3 or more ARM's together,they may be big in mobile market but Intel is atleast a few times bigger then ARM
So you're saying that all of ARM partners will get together just to takedown Intel?
Apple also uses Intel,so they won't go after them.
At the present moment and with good management for the future Intel will simply be too big to be overrun

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'Bigger' was based on the amount of chips produced each year, Intel is expanding it's market but ARM chips are everywhere. ARM powers that iPhone you're so misguidedly proud of.

The frightening and saddening thing about this is that it's not as 'off base' as it sounds.

Systems integration IS the next big thing, and the iPhone and iPad are the first 'real' signs of that, with more to come. As the world becomes smaller and the toys follow suit, the PC towers may see their day come and go. That means Intel, AMD and any other chip maker unable to get into that market will be left by the wayside.

I'm guilty of it myself, having switched to a laptop years ago. If something like an iPad could do what I wanted, I'd use that and my Laptop would collect dust.

One day, a fully integrated PC WILL be able to do that, without discrete processors. If there were an iPad available that would play Crysis (etc.) there would be no need for a tower, meaning no need for buying GPUs, CPUs, etc.

How far are we from that day? It's undeniable that eventually systems integration will obliterate everything else. Whether that means ARM will kill Intel or any other manufacturer, well I doubt that. The guys running both AMD and Intel see it coming too, and are likely working R&D in that direction.

For me, though, the part that I'll miss is the 'Xtreme' part of it. I find it hard to imagine an LN2 stack or a Cascade cooler strapped to an iPad. I think I'd miss that more than anything else.


Gray

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Originally Posted by DMH

Bigger in what?
Intel profits could buy 3 or more ARM's together,they may be big in mobile market but Intel is atleast a few times bigger then ARM
So you're saying that all of ARM partners will get together just to takedown Intel?
Apple also uses Intel,so they won't go after them.
At the present moment and with good management for the future Intel will simply be too big to be overrun

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first of all as of now intel has no interest in ARM. they have x86 which locks in hardware and software designers. it works well for them.

ARM holdings is just a company, but what sets them apart from intel is their IP. even if intel buys ARM, they cant have a lockdown on who uses the instruction set like they do with x86. as a matter of fact they would have to buy a license to design an ARM processor.

fwiw ARM dominates the embedded market as much as x86 dominates the desktop. it will be extremely difficult to overthrow them, even for intel. sure $35B of revenue is a lot but do we have any idea of the cost that switching/porting current software to x86 would have? would a company like apple be willing to sabotage their own investments in ARM to go back to x86? you know they could buy ARM too. they have a market cap of 200 something billion dollars. they have a strong product line in the mobile computing market with their istuff and ARM allows them to do more in house. as much as i dont like apple, these are facts.

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Originally Posted by Gray Mole

The frightening and saddening thing about this is that it's not as 'off base' as it sounds.

Systems integration IS the next big thing, and the iPhone and iPad are the first 'real' signs of that, with more to come. As the world becomes smaller and the toys follow suit, the PC towers may see their day come and go. That means Intel, AMD and any other chip maker unable to get into that market will be left by the wayside.

I'm guilty of it myself, having switched to a laptop years ago. If something like an iPad could do what I wanted, I'd use that and my Laptop would collect dust.

One day, a fully integrated PC WILL be able to do that, without discrete processors. If there were an iPad available that would play Crysis (etc.) there would be no need for a tower, meaning no need for buying GPUs, CPUs, etc.

How far are we from that day? It's undeniable that eventually systems integration will obliterate everything else. Whether that means ARM will kill Intel or any other manufacturer, well I doubt that. The guys running both AMD and Intel see it coming too, and are likely working R&D in that direction.

For me, though, the part that I'll miss is the 'Xtreme' part of it. I find it hard to imagine an LN2 stack or a Cascade cooler strapped to an iPad. I think I'd miss that more than anything else.


Gray

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crysis on a touch screen 11 inch screen or whatever lols.

Maybe with a built in projector and holographic interface yeah. But I guess in principle you're right, more people watch videos on the PC's/laptops/tablets these days. But that doesn't mean that cinema is dead either.

It's more just that people want something small, with good battery life, with random apps that can social network and play farmville. Some of us still need to work. Spending 15 minutes typing this out with a couple of fingers isn't my ideal for sure.

So i think for now, high performance computing is still safe.

Intel got big because at the right time they were in the right place and IBM choose 8086 for PC. The same thing ignited Microsoft at the same time because of the rising market.

I would claim that Apple plays a huge role here. If someone, it will be Apple to introduce ARM devices to areas under x86 reign. It will be Nokia to introduce x86 devices to areas under ARM reign. Apple+ARM vs. Nokia+Intel. ARM vs. x86.

If anyone has a chance of taking on Wintel it's ARM. The introduction of 64 bit ARM doesn't mean much to mobile devices. But it could be quite significant for servers/HPC built with ARM clusters. As for desktops ARM is probably projecting the same trend that has been happening for years - mobile/embedded/thin devices slowly eating it all up.

ARM, has way more potential for growth and revenue than Intel, or atleast arm products. Computers to do the tasks they are doing for most things related to productivity are fast enough. People don't upgrade their computers as much as their phones, camera's, tv, etc. And basically every electronic out there has some form of a arm processor inside. Intel is a market leader in desktops and laptops and are very competitive in the supercomputing market. Since they are the market leader, unless demand goes up which is difficult at this point, the only direction they can go in is down.

I wouldn't say they will obliterate Intel, but they might substantially erode intels earnings. E.g Bestbuy CEO said after the release of the ipad, netbook sales have been chopped in half.

Thin clients definitely. ARM as a ISA is superior to x86 in many ways, thanks to it's RISC design.

It's more efficient in power/mm² and performance/mm². The ability for ARM to license it's designs and thus outsource the production is a huge plus in case things like Nvidia's Tegra really start getting wind under their wings.

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Originally Posted by Iconyu

ARM is bigger than Intel, and Intel stepped into ARM's market. Like I said before, both Intel and AMD should be careful. ARM is probably the only company that is capable of taking them both on.

You're talking about a company that has billions and is almost entirely R&D, this isn't VIA and they won't bankrupt themselves. If they decide they want to beat the i7 they'll only do it if they make a market to sell it to. And so far they are making a decent inroads into creating that market.

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I think this is a great post. One thing that I find the most helpful is number five. Sometimes when I write, I just let the flow of the words and information come out so much that I loose the purpose. It’s only after editing when I realize what I’ve done. :)

I wonder how fast would the best ARM prosessor be if it had the same TDS, let say 95W?

What is the main design reason compared to x86, to make it so much better?

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Originally Posted by Gray Mole

The frightening and saddening thing about this is that it's not as 'off base' as it sounds.

Systems integration IS the next big thing, and the iPhone and iPad are the first 'real' signs of that, with more to come. As the world becomes smaller and the toys follow suit, the PC towers may see their day come and go. That means Intel, AMD and any other chip maker unable to get into that market will be left by the wayside.

I'm guilty of it myself, having switched to a laptop years ago. If something like an iPad could do what I wanted, I'd use that and my Laptop would collect dust.

One day, a fully integrated PC WILL be able to do that, without discrete processors. If there were an iPad available that would play Crysis (etc.) there would be no need for a tower, meaning no need for buying GPUs, CPUs, etc.

How far are we from that day? It's undeniable that eventually systems integration will obliterate everything else. Whether that means ARM will kill Intel or any other manufacturer, well I doubt that. The guys running both AMD and Intel see it coming too, and are likely working R&D in that direction.

For me, though, the part that I'll miss is the 'Xtreme' part of it. I find it hard to imagine an LN2 stack or a Cascade cooler strapped to an iPad. I think I'd miss that more than anything else.


Gray

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I agree with you, and also with the ARM CEO, however I dread it as well. There is less need for the mass consumer to purchase a "more powerful" computer these days. With the exception of servers and the few individuals that do some hardcore rendering or number crunching, the vast majority use their computers to web browse(read up the latest news/gossip, check email, go on social networks, and maybe run some basic productivity software), most of this can be done on the go with a less powerful machine(smartphones, tablets, etc.) While gaming is probably dominated by consoles(most people I know don't want to bother with building their own monster rigs and update drivers, etc. they just want to press the power button and go).


For me, I totally agree with you, I will miss the "xtreme" aspect of the cpu. The feeling of having a mini "super-computer" in your possession to do whatever you choose to do with it(crunching, gaming, or serving).

Hopefully... the cpu wars will continue on for longer than it should... ;)

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

Arm isn't big itself but a lot of of their partners,licencee's are. Texas instruments and Qualcomm are just two of ARM's many partners and use their chips exclusively and their combined value is about the same as Intel's. Considering samsung designs(not simply buys) ARM chips, Apple too. The amount of research arms partners do is likely pretty staggering.

In 2007, 3 billion processors ARM based processors were used, a number that is likely even bigger today.

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Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown

so what you're saying is; ARM + its mates will take on intel?

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the problem with that logic is that ARM's partners are NOT working together; they are actively working against each other.

Nice thought but unfortunately unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by K404

Well if it comes to that, Samsung and Intel are on pretty good terms aren't they?

Intel also have Micron on-side

so...thats 3 of the Global top 10....

Is a monumental ****ing war in anyones interest? From my little understanding, for ARM to enter the conventional desktop space, they need an x86 license... they don't have that, do they? Will they get it? To take on the desktop marketshare with non-x86 they'll need their own OS that'll take on Windows and... good luck with that! There WON'T be a split of X86 and non x86... product support would be seven levels of Hell wrapped up in a room 101 bun

If i'm miles off here... shoot me down

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A monumental war will be in the customer's best interest in the short term but once enough blood has been shed and the war ends. We will all pay for the loses absorbed during the war.

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Originally Posted by Newblar

im reminded of total annihilation for some reason

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Haha..me too!

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im reminded of total annihilation for some reason

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god i love that game!

<----------Core Commander :)

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Originally Posted by Computurd

god i love that game!

<----------Core Commander :)

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gotta love playing easy mode and just going in with your command and rofl pwning everything with the D-gun. such an awesome gun.

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Originally Posted by kl0012

But lets see how long will take to ARM to match core-i7 performance.

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all they need is to slap 4 quadcore 1.5ghz arm processors on one board to beat an intel and amd quadcore server cpu, no? and those 4 quadcore cpus from arm would still consume a lot less... the only problem they have is memory and ecc and that should go away with 64bit...

i think arm sounds a bit c0cky as well...
and if they really believe what they say they have no idear whats going on... intel doent do what it does cause they think its what their customers want, they do what they WANT because they can make more money that way...

they could have created a tweaked 32nm quadcore atom as well and theyd be close to competing with arm in a server space then perf/w wise, but they didnt do it cause it would result in them making less money overall...

just like nvidia COULD sell their 580 cards for 300$ but they would make a lot less money that way...

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

Please ARM, hit, hit, PASS!

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It's Puff, Puff Pass : )

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

Arm isn't big itself but a lot of of their partners,licencee's are. Texas instruments and Qualcomm are just two of ARM's many partners and use their chips exclusively and their combined value is about the same as Intel's. Considering samsung designs(not simply buys) ARM chips, Apple too. The amount of research arms partners do is likely pretty staggering.

In 2007, 3 billion processors ARM based processors were used, a number that is likely even bigger today.

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I thought Qualcomm was acquired by Micron already and Micron is on Intel's side