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Hey guys, just wanted to share these guides as they should be helpful to beginners, rusty veterans or even more skilled enthusiasts in tuning their AMD overclocks to the max. These guides are made by Slappa, so you know they're good. :up:
Phenom II AM3 Overclocking Essentials
AMD Phenom II IMC and RAM Overclocking Guide
Perhaps we could make this a sticky and I could add other helpful guides to it?
Thanks for the post Alex!
Thanks men!
Every day you can learn something new :D
Bye!
Indeed. I don't think you can ever stop 'brushing up' or learning new things when it comes to overclocking, there's just so many variables and the components are always changing.Quote:
Originally Posted by eL.Os-17
thanks for the info, i have been wanting to play on that side of the tracks for a long time now
and it's good to get some good advise
thanks :peace:
Exactly. And there's always someone who knows a technique that were unaware or straight, you ignore.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnJoY
Here is the link of the guide made by me and a friend.
http://www.unknownteam.cl/2010/09/14...basico-en-am3/
Bye!
I was hoping for some good info on drive strengths, but the section about that basically consisted of "randomly change all of these settings until something works". It's not really the authoritative "Here is what is important, what it effects on a functional level, and some guidelines for what to change it to and under which circumstances" I was hoping for.
is the NB speeds limited mostly by the cpu, or is the motherboard too? and has that increased between the very old 790FX and current 800s?
I would say the cpu and temperature, the colder you are the higher it will go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
On air though deneb C2 hit about 2.6ghz some 2.8ghz c3 2.8ghz 3.0ghz and E0 (thuban) will do about 3.2ghz on air on really good chips.
The heat you get from that is pretty high though I did a stock test from stock clocks and my NB went up to 3.2ghz. (1.5 volts)
Load went from 40C to 46C just with Nb Overclock, quite a significant amount of heat.
I think all board vary, some a good NB clockers other better core clockers.
good to know. what about the "system temp" as reported in the bios. i assume thats the actual northbridge chip temp. but does that have much of a impact on stability anymore? with my system that will get much hotter than the cpu itself, since i run a corsair H50 on intake. my cpu is around 40C i think, its tough to tell exactly cause in the bios the temp idle is 27C, and in windows its reported as 19C. so i just add 10C to whatever number AOD or OCCT gives me. but the system temp is probably 5-10C higher due to bad airflow.
Thubans are better with 890fx. I tested two thuban cpus with crosshair III and crosshair IV . Crosshair III max NB speed was 2800-2900mhz but with Crossair IV (890fx) you get over 3200mhz. Both tested with same cooling, memory and power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
so your suggesting we make a sticky on this forum, of links to your blog site with the guides?Quote:
Originally Posted by EnJoY
you are kidding right?
heres a better idea, why dont i cut and paste the guides into this forum and then ask mods to sticky there own forum links to the top of the page.
then all us xtreme site members dont need to visit a blog site if we dont want too, i personaly cant stand the sight of them. for the reasons you can find in my blog link below :up:
Nope, that was not a joke actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by DosDuoNo
I actually said that I could add other links to other guides to my original post so that it would become sticky-worthy. Guess you didn't catch that.
Furthermore, TechREACTION isn't just a blog, it's a full-fledged tech website with reviews, guides, forums and yes blogs. We also have lot's of contests where we give away free sh1t but I guess you've missed those.
Btw, I'm Alex, people know me as EnJoY, who are you?
Great guide!
Is it ok if I translate it to Swedish and publish it on www.amdforum.se? Ofcourse I will make sure you guys get all the credit and I will link to TechReaction :)
It is not techreaction's guide, it's Slappa's, so ask him. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
Yep, I give you permission to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
However you need to include the link to techreaction.net
and also link my personal blog: http://slappablog.wordpress.com
Thanks, and will put both on the top of the page!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slappa
Thanks man! I really appreciate it. Both sites will enjoy the extra viewers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
Indeed, our site is growing slowly but we're a nisch forum focusing on AMD and we're Swedish only so all traffic is welcome. Also I love TechReaction and really liked your blog now that I read it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Slappa
Thanks man, love the support! :up: Best of luck with your blog.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
Good luck man. I'll probably register in the forums over there too. It may be swedish but the community all loves the same things. Plus I'm an AMD guy so thats another plus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
You're more then welcome :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Slappa
The more people I can share my content with, the better. Always good to help, or show off cool stuff :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
id like to know about that too.. maybe chew can help with some writeup? :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
guess i did catch that, still doesnt excuse the shameless link to another site ran by you, when we could just post it here,Quote:
Originally Posted by EnJoY
its a blog site, with a scattering of news and giveaways, but all the same its a blog siteQuote:
Furthermore, TechREACTION isn't just a blog, it's a full-fledged tech website with reviews, guides, forums and yes blogs. We also have lot's of contests where we give away free sh1t but I guess you've missed those.
Im DosDuoNo, people know me as Dos, but you can call me sir :up:Quote:
Btw, I'm Alex, people know me as EnJoY, who are you?
and who am I? im someone who doesnt post shameless links to my website trolling for passing trade. :yepp:
You realize your links in your signature are against forum rules right? KTHNKSBYEQuote:
Originally Posted by DosDuoNo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
Do you bench on ln2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasis
If not it doesn't help at least not enough gains to warrant spending a week on one set of ram.......not only that if I did ram reviews while using them which I have been asked not to and to KISS when doing them as sticks should be install set and forget for mainstream users and not a hassle......
If you are benching ln2, well then you need to be an ln2 bencher and figure some things out on your own the same way i do. ;)
I share alot of things, this is one of the few that I reserve for my own personal benching.....hate or love it, i'm not budging on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasis
wow this thread is amazing, guy asks someone if they could maybe add a little bit to slappa's blog, and all of a sudden its cloak and dagger, im not budging on this one no way hosey !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
this is pure class this thread :rofl:
KTHNKSBYE :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Planet
but on the OP, i agree with particle, the link to slappa's blog with the 'just mess around with some settings and dont be scared 'how-to' seemed to lack some substance, and not what i expected at all.
its a 900 word ultra basic piece of text with a few pics and a quote, from 'im not budging on this one' Chew*
not to take anything away from slappas effort and intention, that i admire a lot, but i would have expected maybe some ballpark figures for certain chips, what OC to expect on various Denebs, with stock +10% vcore and so on.
maybe you should treat this as a first draft slappa, adding to it from various sources useing Harvard rules on it.
i really understand this.. no problems. I remember you replied on that earlier. It was long time ago..Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
time is money :D :up: Also having many points in Hwbot is sweet.
I offer many forms of help many times over, this happens to be one thing just one that I keep to myself and maybe its due to countless hours of testing required for just one IC.Quote:
Originally Posted by DosDuoNo
Want to figure it out do it like I did put the effort in.
If you can't respect it then hate it like i said.
Now lately you have been a troll.
Feeding time is over, ignore time is now.
tbh tomasis its not about hw points, if i cared about that I would be busy benching gulftown on 4 way gtx 480's. I personally do it to help my team every now and then and thats all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasis
It's just about time that has gone into it, some stuff people need to just dive right in and learn on there own, there is no hard found law with drive strengths there is only trial and error.
Fathom this, try cracking a 10 digit combination that changes the final combination everytime you change something. If you can imagine how long it would take to crack that that you can imagine the time it takes to "properly" tune for just one particualr IC, now add all the IC's out there.
OMG your funny, are you always like this, or is this a kind of wind up thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
wanna figure what out?do it like what you did? what effort?
!!!Holy Combination Changes Batman!!!! i dink dis is da vincy code, or is it the enigma?Quote:
Fathom this, try cracking a 10 digit combination that changes the final combination everytime you change something. If you can imagine how long it would take to crack that that you can imagine the time it takes to "properly" tune for just one particualr IC, now add all the IC's out there
sounds like you just discovered a cure for cancer there mate, are you always the martyr? :rofl:
troll? whos the troll, my post had conteent concerning the OP, your last post sounds like your siding for a sainthood or something.
whos the troll? if your looking for one, maybe you should have a look round your own house dude.
regards
@chew how important are the drives? i see like 10 or 12 settings which is a lot of modifying, is the gain really worth the effort (for you probably, but for smalltime clockers getting 24/7 clocks or even suicide runs)? i'm most likely going to leave them stock unless theres solid reason to tweak 'em
and thanks for all the help with VID and binning btw
For -80 and colder they can help a bit especially with weak IMC's.Quote:
Originally Posted by skier
For 24/7 use not worth the effort.
okay, so since DICE only goes to -78 i'm all set then haha by the time I get into LN2 there may not even be those drive settingsQuote:
Originally Posted by chew*
IMC=NB/CPU-NB right? i've read the term but still don't think I entirely understand
thanks again
IMC is tied to the NB but a weak Nb does not mean weak IMC and vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by skier
wasnt thinking IMC=Integrated Memory Controller for some reason... and actually have never really considered the controller when overclocking, just put the RAM to defaults and let it rip and tweak that later because RAM is the only thing that ever gives me no-bootQuote:
Originally Posted by chew*
what should I take into consideration for the IMC? NB freq and or CPU-NB voltage?
/just got 3.78GHz 2hrs stable with 1.4625vcore on 2160 NB+HT with ram at 1440 CL9
You can sometimes increaseCPU_NB voltage to stabilize ram if vdimm no longer scales. Also it seems when running high ram speed HT just a tad over 2000 helps as well as the mothers boards NB and HT volts.Quote:
Originally Posted by skier
Man, that DosDuoNo guy certainly knows how to make friends. I never understand why people become members of internet forums when all they do is act cynical and sarcastic to everybody else. Maybe try being helpful, positive and informative...that's a far greater contribution.
Not currently, but that's only due to availability. It's hard enough to get dry ice in this town, which I do do runs on. Any benefit at those temps?Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
Imc's don't colbug till after -80 so i think your all set on DI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
I don't add ballpark figures purely for the reason that all chips and platforms vary. Why would I want to guarantee something that changes with every different combination of hardware.Quote:
Originally Posted by DosDuoNo
Plus how far one wants to push things is up to them. This is about giving people a starting point and they can go where they like with that. If I told everybody how to do everything what fun would there be in doing it yourself. That is the same thing that chew* is trying to convey here.
QFT, very true AlexQuote:
Originally Posted by EnJoY
If it helped people understand this one architecture better, it would be very useful when a person is presented with the next. You could compare your strategy to teaching math problems without ever giving any answers. How are you supposed to learn effectively if you can't compare against a working example? It's possible but terribly inefficient and makes things much more difficult than they need to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slappa
Look, I respect you and all but you can't have it both ways. Either you're making a genuine attempt to help people learn or you're not. The choice is up to you on which to do, but I think you're going to leave a lot of people feeling burnt if you go half-in by first labeling the thing as a real, helpful guide and then purposefully omit the useful details, citing a desire to keep the real meat of the matter to yourself so as to preserve posterity. It's pretty much a tease, and it's worse than simply not sharing.
If you're wondering why you're getting a negative reaction from some people...that's it. I don't myself feel all too strongly about it--maybe just a tinge of annoyance at the dichotomy.
Well maybe my statement was off in terms of what I meant. I meant more that some variables can not be simply told by me in one end all answer for how to overclock or tune. It is simply that some things are left to the user to try himself. Your analogy would be correct for the most part, but there are also no set in stone rules for overclocking, and no definitive answer. This is different from math.Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
Every piece of hardware varies from rig to rig, and that adds a whole different amount of variables. For what is in the guide, it covers all areas effectively while maintaining platform standard concepts. I could tell every little thing, but it would not pose a great benefit. And my article would be much longer and complicated then need be.
All the great ways to net large gains are already included in the guide, only a few small details remain, that are left for trial and error. This is the fine-tuning stuff that is left to the people who wish to go further, but they must do it themselves. Especially for stuff like subtimings and drives etc. They vary from IC to IC. So how am I supposed tell each person how to do it? There are many different approaches. Overclocking is all about trial and error. What works for my rig may not work for others.
I am genuinely helping as many as I can. There is no huge secret I am holding back on.
Particle, I can't help but think that alot of "you guys" think that drives open up some magical 500 mhz barrier that no one can overcome. That would be meat in my EYES if it were possible............Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
1 week of non stop tuning drives will = 10 mhz sometimes best case.............thats like grisle, stop making it out to be anything more than it is.............
Is that worth your time?
No offense particle you may feel miffed from your point of view.
From my point of view i'm miffed at the fact that ocers want something handed over on a silver platter.........when the only thing stopping them from figuring it out is a little elbow grease on there own part.
Call me old fashioned though, I come from the working class.
Unless of course you think AMD handed me this on a silver platter. If thats the case your in for a surprise.........when i even mention drives to them there eyes get all starry eyed and they think I'm speaking another language, well except for one engineer in Austin that i met who was actually happy to see someone take the time to play with them but offered no further input. ( I guess I should be miffed at him huh? )
Sharing is caring ;) But not much to share in this case, I agree on that.
For strength tuning, make a chart will all options, and start testing. If impatient try only lowest-mid-highest or even lowest-highest setting only, and nothing in between. Can give you an idea of whats going on a little quicker than going thru all values, at least initially.. Google for docs on said settings, to roughly understand what they do. Basic understanding helps more that you think, that goes for everything in oc'ing. Sometimes defaults will run the best. But if lucky an extra ht ref or two at same multi might happen, and you'll feel pretty damn satisfied after all those hours :) Cant comment on how much it can vary between same IC's and pcb's in dc, or how coldness affects ddr2/3 But the different IC's I've tried haven't shared any particular pattern on same cpu/board. Not the same as oldie ddr which could see some sick gains every now and then from strengths. Better precision in mb manufacturing today? :shrug:
Aw well, its a good guide imo. Doesn't scare people away with too much junk that 90% of the people wont touch anyway :up:
OC handed to people on a silver platter? sounds like SB to me. just change one setting, and yay!! you hit the world record for that chip!!, sorry that record is only a few ghz over stock :(Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
Simple terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by wez
Drive strength was a feature that first appeared back on rd 480......it was not found on nv chipsets.
It was implemented by ATI and was best used to combat IMC coldbug........end of story.
No cold bug nowadays, benefits are now remotely slim to non existent, so horse is dead, get off and walk.
particle may i say how flat and to the point your post is, it clearly lays out what i was finding amusing on one aspect of this 'guide'Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
the cloak and dagger approach is pure nonsense, and seems as if someone is actualy believing there own hype somewhere, flirting with the pure intention of massaging ego, i would go as far as saying.
some might say 'speaking from the high ground' and so on,
as for me making friends, im not here to make friends, im here to get to know like minded people, who i feel are 'on the level' and dont hold alterier motives as to there posts and opinions.
sadly so far in this thread i see two who are not on the level, and are purely after something other than the mutual respect i usualy find on forums.
i wish them all the best, and i hope they find what they seek, just dont try and pull the wool over my eyes doing it :up:
i see it for what it is :up:
I distinctly remember my DFI nForce 3 250 S754 board having drive strength adjustments, as well as my NF4 Ultra-D / SLI-D.Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
I'm looking at drive strengths on my Ultra-D right now...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
chew*, I'm sorry but I have to dissagree with you on that. :o My nforce5 board has drive strength tweaking, and it does way more than what you suggest.
Setting different drive strengths (wrong ones) vs setting drive strengths (good ones) can make a HUGE difference in stability on DDR2. I've noticed after moving to DDR3 that it's not as important anymore, but I've certainly noticed at least 5-10 Mhz gains/losses by tweaking them. Is that significant? No.
Was going from 1000 4-4-4-5 to 1035 4-4-4-5 on my Promos sticks significant? Yes. I also tweaked drive strengths for my 5600+ to reach higher IMC capability, with that kit I could do 1050 CL5 @ -.-v, after tweaking drive strengths I was able to hit much higher.
I believe nforce4 (specifically Abit and DFI) had this as well.
Actually, you do that with every single post you make.Quote:
Originally Posted by DosDuoNo
the nforce has what one or 2 drives..........not remotely the same to 6 settings + per channel on "ati" chipsets.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnJoY
funny im sitting here looking at drive strength settings here too on my NF4 ultra. so your wrong.
and nice to see if you say anything to anyone on here they report your sig to mods, i have had my sig on here for months and nothing said, i object to a post and its reported.
sad bully boy tactics if you ask me. you say it to there face, and they say it behind your back.
figures, funny how its all the ones that have techreaction accounts that are objecting.
pure gang up, bully tactics. very sad
thanks for posting to both slappa and enjoy. i personally think it was informative and achieved what it was meant for.
sorry to see the thread get torn away from it's original intent though
on a side note perhaps we could all make something constructive or useful from the rest of this thread. paticle, you want more drive strength information
and you seem to like charts and such so why not have a seperate thread that we all could assist in gathering that info. perhaps like this
bench spi 32m
cpu speed capped at 4000mhz + or -
nb speed at 2800mhz + or -
ht no limits
memory no limit
listing of memory settings that pertain to drive strengths
2 screen shots of cpuz (cpu) (mem)
those who wished to share would participate, those who did not would not.
just my 2 cents worth.
again, thanks slappa and enjoy for your effort.
http://www.nvidia.com/content/nforce...erclocking.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by chew*
Look closely at page 26.
Changing any one of those values (even from 1.5 to 1.25 or 1.0 to .75) was the difference between complete stability and getting a BSOD upon windows bootup. :up:
The fact that I (,myself, you can call me sir) have a TechReaction account means nothing in my opinion. I only have one "blog" over there anyway, a mini-review of SuperTalent Speed Series DDR3-2200 with CAS 6 scaling. (One stick seen at left.) Maybe nobody pays enough attention to you until you start flamewars or something. I know that everything I've said in this thread would have been the same whether I'd had a TR account or not. I designed the logo in my sig, just because I've got an article over there. I'll have a few others soon, specifically a full review of my SuperTalent 2000C7 sticks, (with Thuban,) showing whether they do rated timings as well as overclockability vs my 2200 C8's. Max CL5,6,7, and 8. Just because my review is featured on TechReaction and it's viewers (as well as XS) doesn't mean I'm biased towards them.Quote:
Originally Posted by DosDuoNo
Why don't you talk positively and attempt to help others in a positive manner? It makes what you contribute to the forum seem quite a bit better. I know I'm guilty of spreading faux information, but hey, I was, and still are a kid. I mature more and more every day, I can even tell by looking back at my previous posts since 2009. Some of the things I have said before I wouldn't even have thought about saying now.
Does that make me any lesser than anyone else on this forum? No, no it does not.
ok, can u guys resume that all in 6 lines?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2
Whats the best drive strengh settings for guys like us running some elpida hypers?
I noticed with Hypers (DDR3 in general) it doesnt matter as much, I played with them alot on my board but I never really gain anything. I gain about 2 Mhz max :ROTF: I'm sure there are Mhz to gain/lose, I tried to play with them for my 2200 CL8 mini-review, I'd find highest stable on auto and then play with drive strengths and try to stay stable at the same frequency. I didn't really get anywhere with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barr3l Rid3r
Just run auto and you should be okay.
DDR2 is a different story.
from my knowledge barrell rider i think when going for high mhz your better off starting with lower drive strengths but to be honest i have no hard data to back it up, its just what i have noticed.. hopefully someone who knows more about what they actually do can chime in
Actually it's best to run the lowest drive strengths possible while keeping stability, as drive strengths are how sharp the instruction edges are. Basically drive strengths work like an analog audio signal. The weaker the signal, the more noise there is an the more another source bleeds into that channel. (Kinda like a radio) ...The stronger the signal, the less noise there is but the more amps are pushed into a small speaker. The weaker the signal, the more the ram will clock Mhz wise, but you must worry about instability at (all) clocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydiamond
I've found that with DDR2. DDR3 seems different and a bit more useless.
See here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=140870
The higher drive strengths are, the more the IMC and DIMM's are stressed, resulting in lower clocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Colder temps also cause drive strengths to become stronger for some odd reason.
This is why it helps with coldbugs on K8 like chew* stated. (Also ram clocking when subzero, I believe chew* has vaguely mentioned in the past that Drive Strength only helps when cold ;) )
Drive strengths become so strong it results in a coldbug.
Some chips do not like having tons of current being pushed into them.
I've noticed my DDR2 DIMM's running way hotter with higher drive strengths than lower ones. My ProMOS needs higher drive strengths, (unstable with lower) and my Elpida based OCZ LV DDR2 (I will probably sell within the next few weeks) works much better with low drive strengths.
To those with Hypers (especially MNH-E), I'd run lower drive strengths if I were you. Mine seem to work fine even down 50% to 1.0x from 1.50x. I lose a maybe a few Mhz, but hey...maybe they will stick around longer in the end. :up:
Hope that helps :up:
lol, love itQuote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2