Feser's New Lineup

The Admiral Series Radiators

http://www.frozencpu.com/ in the latest news section

They show a few pics of the rads and they certainly are different. I hope the wait was worth it!

Looks interesting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottALot

The Admiral Series Radiators

http://www.frozencpu.com/ in the latest news section

They show a few pics of the rads and they certainly are different. I hope the wait was worth it!

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hrm i know i've seen a tower cooler with similar staggered disk like fins before. I also seem to recall a concept sketch on these forums with them. I can't recall the pros/cons though.

edit: on a second look i misinterpreted the pictures. this looks a lot like waterlogged's link below + ridges.

Why couldn't they just post pictures instead of some lame flash. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lowfat

Why couldn't they just post pictures instead of some lame flash. :rolleyes:

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My question, exactly. It's like that damn music on their sites that just makes you want to smash your head against your keyboard.

lol, yeah, that flash is pretty annoying.

OCM :up:

Have I just smashed my head against my keyboard? :D

The more interesting part is Iandh Pure-Sil coolant just below. Taken that his killcoil costs $6.50,
it definitely seems like they're charging $13 for distilled water which is ridiculous.

Well, it's certainly different than anything else currently on the market. . .but it's hardly a "radically new concept". I do wonder if they managed to get rid of the dead spot in the center that's inherent in all tube style rads with those folds.:confused:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...6&postcount=11

Note the date on that post. All it really looks like to me is they redesigned the average household style radiator for the PC.

I'll say this though, those Triebwerks ought to be able to push through this pretty well. :rofl:

Looks nice but do you think they will perform well? I have always used their xchangers and have been happy..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erklat

Have I just smashed my head against my keyboard? :D

The more interesting part is Iandh Pure-Sil coolant just below. Taken that his killcoil costs $6.50,
it definitely seems like they're charging $13 for distilled water which is ridiculous.

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heh if you read the post regarding all the steps in making it you'd understand

It'd be kind of cool if that iandh stuff was sorta tinted silver color.

On the topic of the radiator, the curved sort of fins make me think fans will have an easier time getting static pressure as any airflow that gets through will be able to drag other cool air with it around the fins.

EDIT: That above line is confusing, but I just can't explain it any better : /

SO are you saying the design is BETTER then what current rads are like or?

From the images, it doesn't look like there are any "fins", those bulges are part of the copper(?) tubes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

From the images, it doesn't look like there are any "fins", those bulges are part of the copper(?) tubes.

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Maybe I"m looking at it wrong :shrug:

To me it looks like the fins are surrounding the channels making these sort of fin-tubes instead of just a flat wall of fins.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryan92084

heh if you read the post regarding all the steps in making it you'd understand

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I did and realized it's kinda old news.

But, it's pricing is derived more from the perspective that Feser sells it's
crap for $10/L than the fact that two hours are needed to produce a
bottle of those. Nice product like anything that comes out of his workshop,
make no mistake about that. Just an idea that I need $40 of coolant every
half a year makes me reject it. Or stick with it's killcoil.

Nuff with the constructive offtopic. :D

About the rad, seeing enough space between those 'tubes'. Probably low rpm fans optimized at last?
Not a distinctive Feser design. At least wasn't up to this moment.

good news, looking forward for some numbers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottALot

Maybe I"m looking at it wrong :shrug:

To me it looks like the fins are surrounding the channels making these sort of fin-tubes instead of just a flat wall of fins.

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All I see in those pics on FCPU are a bunch of tubes that have been processed in a way (knurled with smooth rollers, or perhaps stamped in a press?:shrug:) to give them more surface area with no conventional type fins between them.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1...miraltubes.png

I'm guessing that not plain form of fins might cause a bit more turbulence enhancing heat dissipation (most air coolers have different from straight rectangle shaped fins aswell, though possibly partially because of looks aswell), but i doubt it resulting in something noticeably better cooling wise then normal rads. Almost certainly not enough better to justify double the price (pure speculation, by guessing that non standart rad making technology might be more expensive and knowing Feser's love to overcharge for overhyped products).

Feser= Bradburyfail

...and anyone else notice the ironic use of an Olde Englishe font on their "German Engineering (!)" slide.

I think I'd rather gouge out my retinas with an icepick than sit through that again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

All I see in those pics on FCPU are a bunch of tubes that have been processed in a way (knurled with smooth rollers, or perhaps stamped in a press?:shrug:) to give them more surface area with no conventional type fins between them.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1...miraltubes.png

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Ah, I hadn't seen that picture! They sorta look like rolled heatpipes in a way...

^ hehe, Feser and their ability to piss anyone off yet give awesome sales

Interesting... Doesn't intuitively seem like enough surface area, but we will see. Perhaps optimized for really low fan speeds. Round tubes should be good for low restriction internally and the tubes externally seem to be spaced apart that they probably don't restrict fans much either.

Very different..Look forward to seeing some testing on these..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Interesting... Doesn't intuitively seem like enough surface area, but we will see. Perhaps optimized for really low fan speeds. Round tubes should be good for low restriction internally and the tubes externally seem to be spaced apart that they probably don't restrict fans much either.

Very different..Look forward to seeing some testing on these..

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That's what you call diplomatic.........

I honestly don't know why I love to hate TFC, I just do I'm guessing its All the hype, no substance they usually put out.

But this looks like something different if testers I trust end up testing this I might given them a Run. I dear say there going to used in a few builds Just for looks.

Anyone taking a guess at the pricing on these? I will start off with a guess at $250 for a single 120mm rad and up from there. :D

Get more investigations.
It seems their radiators is a real innovation

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3803/12769731.png

and they have 5x140 :shocked:

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5045/98565389.png

LOL do u remember this?

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2092/lulzxx.jpg

Now the dream comes true :rofl: :rofl:

Skinnee?....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dingdong555

Skinnee?....

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:wave:

You guys know I hate confirming anything until I have one in my hands. This was not a surprise to me, that is about all I have to say presently.

Huh wheres Skinee live so we can all go ply him with liquor , DarthBevis can bring the half naked babes ..... we'll get the secrets out of him yet ....

If I am interpreting the picture correctly, that appears to be identical to a heat exchanger used by pool & swimming pool heaters.

Here is a few examples:

Heat Exchanger Pic Linky

Heat Exchanger Cut-away Pic Linky

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erklat

I did and realized it's kinda old news.

But, it's pricing is derived more from the perspective that Feser sells it's
crap for $10/L than the fact that two hours are needed to produce a
bottle of those. Nice product like anything that comes out of his workshop,
make no mistake about that. Just an idea that I need $40 of coolant every
half a year makes me reject it. Or stick with it's killcoil.

Nuff with the constructive offtopic. :D

About the rad, seeing enough space between those 'tubes'. Probably low rpm fans optimized at last?
Not a distinctive Feser design. At least wasn't up to this moment.

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Here's the original product post:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...light=pure-sil



As far as the source of the pricing, it is based on my initial equipment investment combined with production cost, combined with shipping cost, combined with time. With my most recent order of 40 bottles, I've just now broken even on my initial investment.

The next order after this most recent one will be the first I'll actually make money on, since I originally introduced the product just over a year ago.

The reason I spend two hours a bottle is to push the silver ion concentration to the breaking point, to ensure the longevity of the biocidal properties of the coolant. It is meant to last for a couple years or more, not just half a year.

I could run the coolant through ionization for ten minutes and it would be more than strong enough to sell. I am making sure to reach a point of complete overkill.



When I first introduced this I was very aware that it would be a slow seller, not much profit, and cater to an extremely small niche. For most users, plain distilled and a killcoil makes sense. Some users may prefer using Pure-sil instead, for various reasons.

Anyways, no offense taken, just thought I'd let you know.

I thought flat tubes was the way to go, example the MORA series rads, due to increased surface contact?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pby5cat

I thought flat tubes was the way to go, example the MORA series rads, due to increased surface contact?

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OMG, don't even bring up the mora's...:ROTF:

Hi Everyone- Since we are the USA Disty on the Feser Product Line, I can assure that these are very different looking and its never been done in the PC Market....I will also say that there are no fins in the new Admiral Series. Thats right, there are NO FINS like the rads that everyone else makes. A little bit different technology allowing water to move through a lot more surface area to cool than a standard Fin based radiator. THese will be crowned king of all PC Radiators and all the hoopla of who has the best radiator will be put to an end finally when these are released.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrozenCPU

Hi Everyone- Since we are the USA Disty on the Feser Product Line, I can assure that these are very different looking and its never been done in the PC Market....I will also say that there are no fins in the new Admiral Series. Thats right, there are NO FINS like the rads that everyone else makes. A little bit different technology allowing water to move through a lot more surface area to cool than a standard Fin based radiator. THese will be crowned king of all PC Radiators and all the hoopla of who has the best radiator will be put to an end finally when these are released.

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Thats a big and bold statment! Who is willing to cut one up then once they come out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinnee

:wave:

You guys know I hate confirming anything until I have one in my hands. This was not a surprise to me, that is about all I have to say presently.

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:wave:

w00t!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iandh

Anyways, no offense taken, just thought I'd let you know.

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God forbid, my objective was never to offend you since I know that everything that
comes out of your workshop is overkill in regard to perfectionism. I deeply
apologize if that is the impression I left.

I took the 6 months reference more in regard to adding something to my loop
which needs dismantling and replacing the coolant, than because I thought it lost it's biocidal properties.
I too would prefer Pure-sil over pure distilled and PT nuke.

Is it safe to conclude your product might be recycled for more than one use then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tetrafluorometh

Thats a big and bold statment! Who is willing to cut one up then once they come out?

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That is called aggressive advertising :D
Me, me provides a jigsaw :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrozenCPU

..THese will be crowned king of all PC Radiators and all the hoopla of who has the best radiator will be put to an end finally when these are released.

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I retract my guess on double the price. Probably will cost three times as others do.

Jeeze, some of you guys sound like broken records around here these days...

Lets wait and see what perf/cost is.

Like grade 9 up in here sometimes... :shakes:

O.M.G. your like Totally right ! :rofl:

But seriously though I belive it mostly comes from the previous Monsta and Triebwerk. All hype / average subpar performance. For me if they Were honest and said here's something new it looks great and Preforms well I'd respect them as a company but as it is I hear that insane voice from there web page say
"We are the uber, the best, Magical cooling beyond the laws of physic's" While a body builders making his pecs jump in the background every time they talk about a new product now.

If independent testing proves me wrong I'd be happy I like innovation in Water cooling and TFC stuff Looks Amazing Just never lived up to what the say it would.

It's just that hard to imagine something revolutionary cooling wise to apear in LC. Different? Yes. Better? Doubtful. Afterall, current LC rads grown from rads used elsewhere, just with some small extra touches, like tuned dimensions to better fit in cases/with fans used, a little work with shroud and standartised for LC thread on inlets, tuned FPI for optimisation to fans commonly used. Otherwise current rad making technology / fin shape used is selected/tuned by many decades in all areas before where rads are used to produce something effective enough yet cheap enough to make. While there is possibility of something different be better, eg. fins like in these admirals be more effective, i doubt it being better then 10% then other current best rads. And if that brings alongside drastic price increase, is it worth it? Even now people often suggest using cheaper MCRs over RX/SR1/PAs, as them are within 95% cooling performance of those and you can buy twice the rad area for same price and beat that performance difference 1.8 times paying same. Now .. who honestly thinks that new TFC rads will be priced competitively with other rads out there knowing their usual pricing? :D - So most probably increased pricing gap will be even harder to justify.

Unless these new Rads can beat the XSPC and Thermochill Rads with 800-1200 RPM fans by a couple of degrees then they are a massive failure.

When i first saw a teaser pic of this new rad series, i remembered the old but good big monster blacklord rads from 1a cooling - it was a little company based here in germany

check out the blacklord pics (released 2002/2003) and compare with those admirals :

http://super.concombre.free.fr/Files/BlackLord.004.JPG

http://www.modthebox.com/reviews/1ac...blacklord9.jpg

http://forum.tt-hardware.com/fichier...1115812457.jpg

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h...26tbs%3Disch:1

Scubar: They actually might, afterall it would be utter double failure if they release yet again "Thermochill killers" (c) TFC, that loose to them in actual 3rd party tests, but my point was - most probably not by much and most probably costing too much to justify slight win. Liquid cooling is very expensive cooling as it is, i'd rather see making advances in making it cheaper/more affordabe (=more widespread) while keeping current performance level, then yet another slightly better component that costs much more then alternatives.
[OFFTOPIC]
BTW, there is new test of XSPC RX V2 out there @skinneelabs

OMG, bundymania, these rads should be ones called monster rads instead of Mo-Ra or TFC Monsta :)

Looks like something like this - page 10 maybe
http://www.wieland-thermalsolutions....ohrewat_08.pdf

no clue why there would have an advantage over finned flat tubes... looking forward to learning more though

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erklat

That is called aggressive advertising :D
Me, me provides a jigsaw :p:

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Yeah cerntaly is but can they back it up with a product that does what it says on the tin?

Okay so who will donate the rad, a simple 1.20/1.40 would do

After these are out i guess in a months time + there will be a topic of who coppied who as others make something the same or simualr

Quote:

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Originally Posted by churchy

BTW, there is new test of XSPC RX V2 out there @skinneelabs

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The only difference listed @ XSPC from V1 to V2 are the screws and paint...:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrozenCPU

Hi Everyone- Since we are the USA Disty on the Feser Product Line, I can assure that these are very different looking and its never been done in the PC Market....I will also say that there are no fins in the new Admiral Series. Thats right, there are NO FINS like the rads that everyone else makes. A little bit different technology allowing water to move through a lot more surface area to cool than a standard Fin based radiator. THese will be crowned king of all PC Radiators and all the hoopla of who has the best radiator will be put to an end finally when these are released.

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As a semi frequent walk-in customer, this distresses me greatly. Please leave the carny barking hype to the manufacturers marketing departments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tetrafluorometh

Thats a big and bold statment! Who is willing to cut one up then once they come out?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erklat

That is called aggressive advertising :D
Me, me provides a jigsaw :p:

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Actually, I call dibs, being one of the louder and more prominent so called "bashers". :p::ROTF: I also have a full range of tools to do the job quickly and cleanly and I'm certainly not shy about using them. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtletrax

Jeeze, some of you guys sound like broken records around here these days...

Lets wait and see what perf/cost is.

Like grade 9 up in here sometimes... :shakes:

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Let's not forget that this is from the company that claimed to beat Thermochill's PA's by 5° C when their now "retired" line of rads were introduced. Needless to say, not one tester ever produced the results to back that claim up, neither did the company for that matter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meanmoe

Looks like something like this - page 10 maybe
http://www.wieland-thermalsolutions....ohrewat_08.pdf

no clue why there would have an advantage over finned flat tubes... looking forward to learning more though

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If that is how they look on the inside, someone's in for a big disappointment. The only "radical" thing these achieve is looks. I really doubt these are going to be any more effective than what we have now. Numbers from real testing will tell that story though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Actually, I call dibs, being one of the louder and more prominent so called "bashers". :p::ROTF: I also have a full range of tools to do the job quickly and cleanly and I'm certainly not shy about using them. :D

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Here here, i second that from stuff ive seen :)

Feser was the first to produce a TC competitor with 15mm fan spacing and g 1/4 fittings (compatibility with MOST of the cases and fittings on the market). Even TC changed their design after TFC and all the other radiator vendors took a stand at one standard. TFC rads perform well (can't say they perform at X or Y percentage better than a TC but then I do not care as I just want them to perform well). If I had to order a new rad today I would go with a Black Ice SR 1 or thick Swiftech.

It looks nice but until someone reliable (Skinnee) tests and compares it to current radiators, it is just another normal radiator amongst others. No point hyping out on it.

I spoke with Martin from TFC today, yes Skinnee Labs will be the first review world-wide.

The lengthy product lineup that was included in the FrozenCPU news block is planned, but not upon initial release. The first radiators available will be Monsta 140, Monsta 420, Admiral 120, Admiral 240, Admiral 360 and Admiral 480. The rest of the series (including a slim) will come after the new year. USA will be the first to have the new series followed by Russia and then out to more countries as stock is available. I was assured production is up and running.

:toast:

FrozenCPU - when can I order 2 360 admirals please? I would like to use them in my build and also are they as thick as the xchangers or are they thinner now ?

hahaha there sending the rad to skinnee. Cant wait for this one!
Skinnee can you compare the review sample you will get, against a feser 480?
I own one, and would like to know how much better the new line is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Actually, I call dibs, being one of the louder and more prominent so called "bashers". :p::ROTF: I also have a full range of tools to do the job quickly and cleanly and I'm certainly not shy about using them. :D

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The moment I look forward to is Skinees post-review announcement that he sticks with his PA's. :D

Till then I'll keep polishing my clubs, axes and icepicks, let them be prepared
when my B-day comes... B as for Bashing :D :wierd:

Now that is what I call appropriate smile. Nice base btw. :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neonatas

Skinnee can you compare the review sample you will get, against a feser 480?

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That I doubt since he has already done the 360 review. You'll probably need to measure by it's performance.

Oh nice, then its not required. I can look that one up and compare.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinnee

USA will be the first to have the new series followed by Russia and then out to more countries as stock is available.

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Really Russia? What a deal has Feser there?

I look forward to seeing how these perform and hopefully I will be wrong on my guess at pricing. Water cooling is getting a major refresh this fall with all the products that are being released and if you look at the year as a whole this has probably been one of the most productive (new release wise) years we have had in awhile. I am still waiting to see someone come out with a rad that is shaped differently to fit in areas that are not the usual places, i.e. the side 240mm round fan holes on cases or up top in the 240mm fan holes. I would also like to see more rads designed for external placement with their own stands and pump mounts, but I can only dream.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Let's not forget that this is from the company that claimed to beat Thermochill's PA's by 5° C when their now "retired" line of rads were introduced. Needless to say, not one tester ever produced the results to back that claim up, neither did the company for that matter.

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We know. And the amount of times you guys repeat it honestly is getting to grade schoolyard proportions. The reviews are out there, and it has been said at least 10,000 times before.

We get it. Feser is not loved here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinnee

I spoke with Martin from TFC today, yes Skinnee Labs will be the first review world-wide.

The lengthy product lineup that was included in the FrozenCPU news block is planned, but not upon initial release. The first radiators available will be Monsta 140, Monsta 420, Admiral 120, Admiral 240, Admiral 360 and Admiral 480. The rest of the series (including a slim) will come after the new year. USA will be the first to have the new series followed by Russia and then out to more countries as stock is available. I was assured production is up and running.

:toast:

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Excellent. I for one cant wait.

Big ups for the labs ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtletrax

We know. ...
We get it.

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Who's 'we'?

He, you, me, we :D

He protests against us bashing Feser with no grounds. Besides Feser tried and true modus operandi we all saw through.
Hope that explains correctly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtletrax

We know. And the amount of times you guys repeat it honestly is getting to grade schoolyard proportions. The reviews are out there, and it has been said at least 10,000 times before.

We get it. Feser is not loved here.

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I'll be honest, I really am a tad sick of having to bring it up every time as well but, as long as there are shills and blatant manufacturer misinformation out there, there has to be other ppl somewhere close by redirecting the uneducated to take a closer look at the drivel and drool they're being fed by such ppl and tell them to think for themselves and not take everything at face value.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by anzial

Who's 'we'?

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All the people who can read, and with memories.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

I'll be honest, I really am a tad sick of having to bring it up every time as well but, as long as there are shills and blatant manufacturer misinformation out there, there has to be other ppl somewhere close by redirecting the uneducated to take a closer look at the drivel and drool they're being fed by such ppl and tell them to think for themselves and not take everything at face value.

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I understand why feser is not liked, and I agree. What I dont like is the fact that I cant read one thread with the word rad in it without some negative [T]ardOCP feel to it. It is coming off as bitter guys... And in reality is not making you better than what feser said/did.

Another thing I find funny is AMD/Intel would snipe any of our Moms on a grocery run if it meant good quarterly results, and you are forever whining about what feser did?

What it boils down to is XS is better than this constant berating. The info is out there and what you guys have said has done its work, trust me. leave it by the wayside and if you really must say something, link to Skinnee's review and give a wink.

Edit: I would also like to say I am not a fan of feser. I think thier fittings are a direct ripoff, their fluids are junk. I bought Feser rads initially upon their release because TC was still using BSPP and I had ZERO access to anything other than garbage plastic barbs and nothing for advanced barbs, such as 90's or anything else for that matter. And the reason I bought them last time is the selection in Canada is terrible since the financial meltdown. I also got a good deal as they were being phased out. That being said I have not been disappointed by Xchangers. I just wanted to say that as not be arouse suspicions of being one of these "shills"

I also want to take a moment to quote "Canada" Bill Jones. "It is immoral to leave a sucker with his money".

If a person is stupid enough to not do his homework on what to buy, let him...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtletrax

I also want to take a moment to quote "Canada" Bill Jones. "It is immoral to leave a sucker with his money".

If a person is stupid enough to not do his homework on what to buy, let him...

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I don't necessarily agree with this.

It serves us better if the industry expands -> more cheaper better products. If too many people are 'suckered', they will leave and not come back or won't come at all. Plus, having been suckered before, I wouldn't wish that on anyone else. I guess manufacturers are free to say what they want to an extent, but lying is bad.... Mmmkay.


At the same time, let's see the product first before we start calling them lying weasels again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinnee

I spoke with Martin from TFC today, yes Skinnee Labs will be the first review world-wide.

The lengthy product lineup that was included in the FrozenCPU news block is planned, but not upon initial release. The first radiators available will be Monsta 140, Monsta 420, Admiral 120, Admiral 240, Admiral 360 and Admiral 480. The rest of the series (including a slim) will come after the new year. USA will be the first to have the new series followed by Russia and then out to more countries as stock is available. I was assured production is up and running.

:toast:

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Right on:up:

I was hoping they would send you a sample and you'd work it in to the already busy schedule some how.:)

Thanks!:toast2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

I'll be honest, I really am a tad sick of having to bring it up every time as well.

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How about this: don't bring it up every time. Consider this an official warning to stop trolling.


As for the rad, no idea how it will perform--I don't know if there is really much room for improvement over current rads--so tests will be interesting to see how much it performs better, if at all. I don't think it would make sense for a company to drop an entire radiator line for a worse performing (and likely similar or higher priced) replacement, but that's just me.

I'm looking forward to this. I would like to add this product to my system. I was waiting for this product as TFC stated soon after it eol its radiator series.

Yeah cooling hasn't been going anywhere too far lately, but this may do something.

Awaiting Skinnee's review..............

As with all newly innovated products, I'm skeptical until some data comes out. That being said, can't wait. :D

Do you really think Feser would invest all this time and money in a product if it isn't going to perform better than whats out there now? Unless they are relying on the misinformed to make a profit ....

Exactly that and those who want that different look.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meanmoe

I don't necessarily agree with this.

It serves us better if the industry expands -> more cheaper better products. If too many people are 'suckered', they will leave and not come back or won't come at all. Plus, having been suckered before, I wouldn't wish that on anyone else. I guess manufacturers are free to say what they want to an extent, but lying is bad.... Mmmkay.


At the same time, let's see the product first before we start calling them lying weasels again.

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There's a fine line between ripping people off and smart business. When you try to be too nice... at best, you stifle the potential growth of your business, and at worst, you end up getting to hang an "out of business" sign on your door.

That said, I don't agree with overpricing, but what looks overpriced from one side, is underpriced from another.

I've seen people say my Stealth-Res series is overpriced, they're retailing about $20 cheaper than they should according to "standard" profit margin guidelines.

I've also heard people say HK3.0's are overpriced, but I wouldn't touch manufacturing a CPU waterblock with a 10ft pole unless I was retailing at $100+





As far as the Feser thing, there's two sides to every story. I haven't heard Feser's side. I'm not trying to imply anything there other than I try to withold judgement when possible until I have information from both parties involved in a dispute.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtletrax

Another thing I find funny is AMD/Intel would snipe any of our Moms on a grocery run if it meant good quarterly results, and you are forever whining about what feser did?

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:rofl: :ROTF:

This belongs in someone's sig

The whole feser thing should be dropped. It gets quite old reading it over and over again. It does us as a community no good, it only brings us down.

BTW, I do not own any feser products.

OCM :up:

I dont know what the moaning is all about Feser? I have their RADS and they work fine for me with my compression fittings and everything, temps are good, i get decent flow. So whats all the biitching and moaning about Feser?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aedubber

I dont know what the moaning is all about Feser? I have their RADS and they work fine for me with my compression fittings and everything, temps are good, i get decent flow. So whats all the biitching and moaning about Feser?

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Trust me, you really don't want to go there.

looks interesting!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Trust me, you really don't want to go there.

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Looks like thats all you do, keep going there. Its fracking annoying so how about you drop it please? Lets move on.

OCM :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OC Maximus

Looks like thats all you do, keep going there. Its fracking annoying so how about you drop it please? Lets move on.

OCM :up:

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Look, I posted that to try and avoid the topic from traveling down a path it doesn't need to go, nothing more. How about all you guys stop reading further into my posts than what I write? I'd have thought by now you guys would have figured out that I don't candy coat or hide what I say. If I have something negative to say, I say it. . .same if I have something positive to say or decided to offer help. I'm a blunt instrument, plain and simple. :yepp:

When you make it a point to constantly trashing a company, your name becomes synonymous with that company name. When feser is mentioned on XS, waterlogged bashes. I'm sure many will agree, plain and simple :) Move on and all will be well or be stubborn and suffer the wrath of the Admin......

6k+ post means nothing when your tagged as a troll. Lets wait for the independent review before passing judgment.

OCM :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OC Maximus

When you make it a point to constantly trashing a company, your name becomes synonymous with that company name. When feser is mentioned on XS, waterlogged bashes. I'm sure many will agree, plain and simple :) Move on and all will be well or be stubborn and suffer the wrath of the Admin......

6k+ post means nothing when your tagged as a troll.

OCM :up:

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Post count is meaningless. . .period!

Honestly, I haven't bashed in this topic. . .I've reminded (or educated) some ppl on old history regarding a now retired product line but I haven't bashed. . .I haven't said their name at all (which I have a problem spelling correctly) and I've even said that numbers will tell how this performs. If that's not positive enough for you, I'm freakin' sorry. . .I can't get more positive, not about them.

Ok, understood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

I've reminded (or educated) some ppl on old history

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Agreed, I actually didn't know about the controversy with Feser marketing technique.:confused:

I am kinda skeptical on that one. Water-air thermal exchange is not a new problem, if the industry has come to a few designs it's because they are efficient, and they all have fins to start with (even household radiators !). I believe the geniuses at Cray, Intel, IBM, or in the automotive industry or the heavy industry (serval heravy duty tools are watercooled) thought that out already, and a long time ago. So all of sudden a little hobby company comes out with a solution that one-ups everyone ? Alright it could happen, but the odds arent so great...

i want so bad.. with my triebwerks :D

i need 140mm highspeed triebwerks
....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gmat

if the industry has come to a few designs it's because they are efficient, and they all have fins to start with (even household radiators !). I believe the geniuses at Cray, Intel, IBM, or in the automotive industry or the heavy industry (serval heravy duty tools are watercooled) thought that out already, and a long time ago.

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u forget that all they consider the cost as major factor
but here perhaps feser may suggest, for example, 50% more price for 15% improvement
when u r limited with space but need an ultimate cooling solution then this may be the reasonable purchasing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gmat

I am kinda skeptical on that one. Water-air thermal exchange is not a new problem, if the industry has come to a few designs it's because they are efficient, and they all have fins to start with (even household radiators !). I believe the geniuses at Cray, Intel, IBM, or in the automotive industry or the heavy industry (serval heravy duty tools are watercooled) thought that out already, and a long time ago. So all of sudden a little hobby company comes out with a solution that one-ups everyone ? Alright it could happen, but the odds arent so great...

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It's difficult to tell anything from the flash, but it may resemble a large scale industrial solution that I've seen. I've also read a paper about staggered tubes with an internal mesh and extruded fins. It seemed to perform well according to the author. I'd really like to see someone cut one in half.

So when does our man get the rade and how long till we can see what it's like or does!

Waterlogged- well you could always shoot me a PM and tell me :) , I'd appreciate it before I buy products lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Post count is meaningless. . .period!

Honestly, I haven't bashed in this topic. . .I've reminded (or educated) some ppl on old history regarding a now retired product line but I haven't bashed. . .I haven't said their name at all (which I have a problem spelling correctly) and I've even said that numbers will tell how this performs. If that's not positive enough for you, I'm freakin' sorry. . .I can't get more positive, not about them.

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plus i remember you sayin some really downright good stuff :shrug:

Not before they are officially released.

Now I don't recall that we bashed up to the moment when some aggressive advertising took place. :D

Now I believe 480 XSPC is my next rad. I hardly doubt it will get smashed against my head by my own hand when Skinnee
announces the results of Admirals. Please let it be some groundbreaking results, but as someone stated, there is nothing so
radical to improve water to air heat transfer.

Let's draw the parallel. TRUE was announced three years ago, and it's design is simply a pinnacle of heatpipe cooling solution. Everything
after that was a mumbo jumbo made out of the same ingredients. Sure there are some nice coolers, but those are just different shades
made out of the same color. Why? Because laws of the physics can not and will not be surpassed. Sure someone is going to mention
Megahalems, or Noctua, or V8 or whatever, but the differences between those are so marginal that they might be attributed to many
other factors like TIM thickness or ambient temp change or whatever. There is nothing new to be made there.
And when someone makes such bold statements like they screwed physics, we start bashing.

You should try too. It's fun :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iandh

I've seen people say my Stealth-Res series is overpriced, they're retailing about $20 cheaper than they should according to "standard" profit margin guidelines.

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Why being so defensive? For example I value EK products as subjectively the best (except rads). I value your StealthRes even more. I think that you
have more than enough approval and gratitude from the community here. Prolly it's hard to make a living out of that, but if you are intrinsic motivated person
you should feel great for the joy you induced in the community with your great products. Just because I stated I can't afford $40 of coolant every now and
then when I get merely the same with your $6 chunk of silver, doesn't mean your products aren't worth the price asked. StealthRes is imho.

Erklat it seems you are implying that it is physically impossible to improve upon the TRUE, but I don't see any real justification for that besides your vague "laws of physics will not be surpassed". I know the computer industry moves fast and we've become accustomed to rapid innovation, but the heatpipe-tower style heatsink has only existed for a few years and I don't think it's unlikely that in 10 years we'll see something new. Heatpipes do a rather fantastic job of moving heat to giant fin arrays - better than solid copper in many cases! - but I wouldn't be surprised if advanced materials can push that advantage even further. For example, CNTs are over 10x as conductive as copper along their axis - maybe that could be harnessed? I also imagine there is a lot of room for improvement in fin design to help create local surface turbulence to reduce the laminar boundary layer. We've seen some 'sinks try out weird shapes and angles, others have used small dimples, but it's clearly an area for which there is opportunity for innovation.

I don't mean to be confrontational, but I think the assumption here that our current heat exchangers are the pinnacle of engineering is awfully naive. Irregardless of TFC's ridiculous marketing, I feel like applauding them for at least attempting to bring innovation to the market, rather than sitting back and assuming that our two pass fin-and-flat-tube exchangers will never be beat. I'm excited for Skinnee's results! Heck, even if you don't like supporting TFC, we'll probably see similar products from other companies if the Admiral series performs well.

BTW, lately all we see in LC - fine tuning / slow evolution. Imho it's worth to start some new thread with brainstorming of what can be made to radically change some component to enhance it's performance (or radically slash price for same level of performance). Some ideas outside simple ideas like silver instead of copper, even smaller micropins/microchannels, more powerful pumps, more rads and such. I don't like current stagnating state in this hobby and i'm doubtful in these rads breaking the ice of status quo. What can be improved with waterblocks? What with pumps? What with rads? Eg. it was interesting to read one recent thread about non centrifugal pumps (i forgot the term how they were called though), that could do way more pressure then most common LC centrifugal pumps. Or thinking about basics for waterblocks - what are theoretically best in taking heat, and how one can make one more close to that theoretical (eg. thickness of base) without compromising other things (eg. mechanical rigidity), or what else except micropins or microchannels can be used to enhance turbulence or enlarge heat exchange area and still is technologically simple enough to make. How about old idea of TEC + waterblock? Anything but to get out of current swamp of microgains by slowed down evolution.

^^^ Well said in a very respectful way . Good to see a mature audience in here :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaldskryke

Erklat it seems you are implying that it is physically impossible to improve upon the TRUE, but I don't see any real justification for that besides your vague "laws of physics will not be surpassed". I know the computer industry moves fast and we've become accustomed to rapid innovation, but the heatpipe-tower style heatsink has only existed for a few years and I don't think it's unlikely that in 10 years we'll see something new. Heatpipes do a rather fantastic job of moving heat to giant fin arrays - better than solid copper in many cases! - but I wouldn't be surprised if advanced materials can push that advantage even further. For example, CNTs are over 10x as conductive as copper along their axis - maybe that could be harnessed? I also imagine there is a lot of room for improvement in fin design to help create local surface turbulence to reduce the laminar boundary layer. We've seen some 'sinks try out weird shapes and angles, others have used small dimples, but it's clearly an area for which there is opportunity for innovation.

I don't mean to be confrontational, but I think the assumption here that our current heat exchangers are the pinnacle of engineering is awfully naive. Irregardless of TFC's ridiculous marketing, I feel like applauding them for at least attempting to bring innovation to the market, rather than sitting back and assuming that our two pass fin-and-flat-tube exchangers will never be beat. I'm excited for Skinnee's results! Heck, even if you don't like supporting TFC, we'll probably see similar products from other companies if the Admiral series performs well.

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You pointed out something I forgot to wrote. That's what happens when
you write posts full of crap. :D
Yeah, physically impossible based on the design and even more materials used.
For what it will look like in ten years I dare not to venture in, and neither
should you. Prolly we'll be trying to disipate heat from something Tony Stark
manner which will replace CPUs. :shrug:
But with fin based heatsinks and copper/brass radiators, I hardly doubt
the possibility which you are trying to emphasize here.
Surely this is innovative design, but has to be observed in correlation to the time and place we live in.

It will probably turn out au pair with low fpi fin based rads. The only real improvement I see here is the possibility
of better efficiency combined with low rpm fans - something Xchangers were not familiar with,
but surely it will be again couple of degrees. And,quote,the hoopla
about who has better rad,unquote, would again be far from over.

If this turns true, there will be some nice second hand rads in classifieds very soon. :D

BTW, anything new has to be judged with grain of salt with thinking how some idea/technology is well .. technological/cheap to make and is the gain really worth the price. Eg. - while fins inside water tubes of rad can really add a bit of effectiveness to them, it's not really justified by increased costs in making such if it adds 10% effectiveness while doubling price, as same can be gained by adding one extra section with increasing price of rad just for 15%. Also one has to remember that cleaning such rad from coolant residue / gunk will be nightmare, as there is no easy way to dissassemble rad for cleaning like one can do with waterblocks.

Distilled water and silver FTW!!!! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by churchy

BTW, lately all we see in LC - fine tuning / slow evolution.

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What I think is funny is that even when the research money is available for advanced concepts for heat rejection for things like advanced fuel cells and space applications, heat pipes, louvered fins, and microchannels are what they use. Of course, there are expensive tweaks which increase efficiency like advanced materials or extensive optimizaation but essentially that is state of the art I think. This is part of the reason why I'm really curious about this launch and especially with the claims above.

so i heard that feser products are superior to all other products becuase they are just clearly,

better.

lol

trooolllllin

:p:


i cant wait for these rads for serious tho. if even 1c better than xchanger im gona replace becuase it just looks so damn nifty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NKrader

so i heard that feser products are superior to all other products becuase they are just clearly,

better.

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How about this ? :p:


:D

What i like is its the company's that people love to hate aka tfc, thermaltake that try to pump completely different items on the market. Which i consider a good thing. Even bad idea's help inovation.

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