[S/A]How Nvidia blacklists sites like Hardware Secrets

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/05/...dware-secrets/

Nvidia is really losing a lot of my respect these days...

He really doesnt like nvidia. Even though i wouldnt be surprised if there was a degree of truth in that article, you should always be aware of how biased the author of the article is :P

I would love to know the source for that checklist in the article.

Anandtech extremely faintly hinted about this in either the 9800GTX+ or GTS250 review.


But hey, it started way before this. G80 (8800GTX) had an initial reviewer's guide...

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Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

I would love to know the source for that checklist in the article.

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http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/artic...ard-Review/719

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Originally Posted by www.hardwaresecrets.com

This time we have NVIDIA blacklisting us. After we published a review – without any support from them, N.B. – they complained that we didn’t talk about CUDA or PhysX. I replied saying that we weren’t going to talk about these subjects because we thought they were not relevant to the average user, and we usually don’t re-write reviews. I think this is funny, we have to make a lot of effort to get samples because NVIDIA doesn’t help us and then when we publish the review they complain? If they had given us any kind of support or talked to us clarifying why they think commenting these features would make any real sense to the average user we wouldn’t be so frustrated. But all the reasons they gave us were manufactured by their propaganda machine.

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http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/blog/...re-Secrets/174


looks like hardwaresecrets.com got their Bacon grilled by Nvidia.

It's usually partner cards that get tested rather than cards directly from nVidia - so it's not as if a blacklist means a lot - you just know that instead of calling a contact at nVidia, you call BFG or Zotac.

^^^
Oh, well I guess it's ok to act like this...
so Nv doesn't hold any power over it's starving partners then?

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Originally Posted by h0bbes

He really doesnt like nvidia. Even though i wouldnt be surprised if there was a degree of truth in that article, you should always be aware of how biased the author of the article is :P

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I think it's obvious that despite the 'dislike' that the author has far more integrity than Nv...

I'm just sick of Nv right now...

I have received a significant amount of hardware from NVIDIA over the years. I've never been told that I had to post about something, or not post about something. This smells like a load to me. :shrug:

I believe there was some disappointment that many reviewers focused entirely on DX9/10 performance, to the point of nearly ignoring DX11. I can see sites that couldn't be bothered to write about DX11, or changed graphics settings when comparing competing parts on the same graph, not being prioritized for hardware in the future.


Amorphous

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Originally Posted by h0bbes

He really doesnt like nvidia. Even though i wouldnt be surprised if there was a degree of truth in that article, you should always be aware of how biased the author of the article is :P

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Originally Posted by onewingedangel

It's usually partner cards that get tested rather than cards directly from nVidia - so it's not as if a blacklist means a lot - you just know that instead of calling a contact at nVidia, you call BFG or Zotac.

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Originally Posted by Semiaccurate

This time however, they crossed the line from plausible denial-ability to flat out deception. In the middle of last week we heard what Nvidia was up to this time around, but just couldn't believe they would be THAT sleazy. A day or so later, HardOCP published a story about Nvidia stock 'plummeting', basically an indignant backhand for being cut out of the GTS250's launch. Point one confirmed. The rest soon followed.

Just what are the green fumblers doing this time? Two things, one bad, the other straight out deception. The bad one is simple, if you don't review Nvidia cards and say that PhysX is the greatest thing since sliced bread and CUDA makes sex better, you aren't doing a good enough job. They will gently nudge you to change your tune to praise PhysX and CUDA until you wear the letters off your keyboard.

By gently nudge we mean bluntly threaten, and by bluntly we mean not bluntly at all. Competence would help, as would the carrot and stick approach, but Nvidia doesn't like carrots. They just threaten. Kyle made the mistake of being honest, so it is doghouse time for him, and the site. Welcome to the club, we even have a fort. I assume you got the list of who got cut too, so you know we will have quite big name company soon. Punch and pie.

So, short story, Nvidia dislikes honesty, and since they have no new product, they are afraid of that particular trait. If you didn't drool over PhysX and CUDA enough, you are cut out. This is exactly what Apple does to keep the press in line, but Apple has something Nvidia doesn't, competence.

If that wasn't bad enough, the next part is. Normally, when a vendor cuts you out, if you really care, you can go to one of their partners and get boards/chips/whatever. Sometimes this is a better idea because one or two tend to have a special card, overclocked, shiny metal cooler, or box with bigger breasts on the model. This time Nvidia specifically forbade partners from giving sites parts if they were on honesty hiatus.

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nvidia-cuts-out-reviewers

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Originally Posted by BoredByLife

[S/A]How Nvidia blacklists Hardware Secrets

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fixed.

Nvidia reminds me of North Korea..

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Originally Posted by Amorphous

I have received a significant amount of hardware from NVIDIA over the years. I've never been told that I had to post about something, or not post about something. This smells like a load to me. :shrug:

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well your a fan of nvidia, so obviously your gonna say good things about them and they wont ask you to revise any statements...

dont get me wrong im not saying its a bad thing that your a fan of nvidia, im just telling you, that probably makes a difference... if somebody always supported you in the past youll treat him well, obviously...

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Originally Posted by Amorphous

I believe there was some disappointment that many reviewers focused entirely on DX9/10 performance, to the point of nearly ignoring DX11.

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well its not like there are that many dx11 games out there, and the few that are available look 99% the same in dx10.1 ... so i can see why reviewers dont focus on dx11 that much... the only reason nvidia cared so much about dx11 is because thats where they have an advantage over ati, they can handle tesselation better than ati...
just months before they were telling everybody how dx10.1 doesnt matter at all, and that dx11 would only take off in 2011 or 2012 and their 10.0 cards were perfectly fine... remember that? :D

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Originally Posted by Amorphous

I can see sites that couldn't be bothered to write about DX11, or changed graphics settings when comparing competing parts on the same graph, not being prioritized for hardware in the future.

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yeah, theres nothing wrong with that, you cant really blame a company for working with people that give them something in return and are nice to work with, for them... the weird thing here is that nvidia didnt support this site before, they still got a review sample somehow or maybe even bought a card, and instead of being happy for more coverage and attention, they are nitpicking on how exactly they reviewed the card... thats pretty weird... kinda reminds me of something id expect apple to do...

about the list of questions:

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Did they write that we have an architecture advantage? (Y/N)

GTX 480 Pricing (Good, Too High, Too Low)

GTX 470 Pricing (Good, Too High, Too Low)

Did they complain about power?

Did they complain about noise?

Did they complain about heat?

Design Garage

Supersonic Sled

Water/Hair Testing

Unigine 2.0

MS DX11 SDK

Stone Giant

Folding@Home

Did they test with Catalyst AI On? (Y/N)

Did they call out AMD on their cheat?

If yes, give link

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to me that doesnt sound suspicious at all, it sounds like a standard pr survey to get an idea of how the press received their new cards and how the press reviewed them, what points the press focussed on and what parts they didnt, so nvidia can get an idea of what they should push more, or what they should ignore etc...

and nvidia fabricated the catalyst cheating story?
i find it hard to believe that pcgh and other review sites lied to us about the beta review driver that boosted performance...

i dont know, i think charlie is reading too much into this one... not saying its not true, but from this list of questions i cant really derive anything evil or morally wrong...

NVIDIA is really acting childish and resorting to such immaturity these days its not even funny.

All I have to say is that I've always looked at video cards like I have at cpu's,sometimes one company has the better product, sometimes the other has.
BUT a company has to understand that the one thing they HAVE to present to the public is beleivability no matter how they compare to their competitor.
AMD for example has handled this well during the C2D time frame when they were getting beat by Intel.
They worked on their line and brought forth better products to the point where today it's a damned close horserace between the two companies.

nVidia is seems just hasn't "gotten it" that you can't play these games in the modern world with it's instant worldwide communication.
They will eventually but they willl take a big hit in the pocketbook learning this fact.

Lol so Charlie's insiders at TSMC have now access to surveys Nvidia makes? :rofl:

Blacklisting sites is another thing, but as for the list, I don't see anything wrong with it...

I used to do product reviews for a smaller web site and I never had Nvidia request I test under certain conditions, as many other have done in the past. Maybe some people are Nvidia Fans, but i am a fan of what works well for the right situation. Now I no longer work for that web site because I refuse to do Biased reviews.

I am not sure why anyone would use ole charlie as an example of unbiased reporting. because hes probably the most biased individual on the net today. And is the worst example of impartial reporting I have ever seen, and this is coming from a former editor.

Folding For The Future
EG

hmmmm interesting

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Originally Posted by FoldingFanatic

I used to do product reviews for a smaller web site and I never had Nvidia request I test under certain conditions, as many other have done in the past. Maybe some people are Nvidia Fans, but i am a fan of what works well for the right situation. Now I no longer work for that web site because I refuse to do Biased reviews.

I am not sure why anyone would use ole charlie as an example of unbiased reporting. because hes probably the most biased individual on the net today. And is the worst example of impartial reporting I have ever seen, and this is coming from a former editor.

Folding For The Future
EG

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nvidia only sends review samples to BIG sites... like the top 100 or top 50 sites worldwide i think... probably even less, they usually have their partners take care of the press and they do a much better job at it than nvidia themselves...

It's BS IMO.

Hardware Secrets also shouldn't take it upon themselves to arbitrarily decide not to mention features (CUDA et all) just because the writer thinks they have no impact upon his readers. They are features which should be talked about even in passing in order to let said readers decide for themselves whether they are important or not.

As for the list. Haha. Let's see where we stand:

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Did they write that we have an architecture advantage? (Y/N) NO. However, it has been proven that NVIDIA DOES have an architectural advantage in DX11.

GTX 480 Pricing (Good, Too High, Too Low): GOOD. Because it really is.

GTX 470 Pricing (Good, Too High, Too Low) GOOD. See above. The pricing is good.

Did they complain about power? YES

Did they complain about noise? YES

Did they complain about heat? YES

Design Garage NO TESTING

Supersonic Sled NO TESTING

Water/Hair Testing NO

Unigine 2.0 YES

MS DX11 SDK NO

Stone Giant NO

Folding@Home NO

Did they test with Catalyst AI On? (Y/N) YES

Did they call out AMD on their cheat? NO

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So according to Charlie, we would be cut out. A number of other large websites would be cut out as well (HardOCP, LegitReviews, Anandtech just to name a few) but they aren't and won't be.

is this not illegal? why would nvidia do this?

its up to author to decide if cuda is worth of mentioning or not defending such actions is stupid imho like that site or not

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Originally Posted by .hardwaresecrets.com

After we published a review – without any support from them, N.B. – they complained that we didn’t talk about CUDA or PhysX. I replied saying that we weren’t going to talk about these subjects because we thought they were not relevant to the average user, and we usually don’t re-write reviews

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Ohhh, now i understand their name.... hardwaresecrets:rofl:

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Hardware Secrets also shouldn't take it upon themselves to arbitrarily decide not to mention features (CUDA et all) just because the writer thinks they have no impact upon his readers. They are features which should be talked about even in passing in order to let said readers decide for themselves whether they are important or not.

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wow... do you really think so?
a reviewer should basically ignore his own knowledge of the market, his readers and technology and just blindly follow the manufacturer in product reviews? i liked most of your reviews but this... puts them in a different light... :D

None of the gamers care about CUDA. Physx, maybe, but CUDA??? If you are a game site, why should you explain anything about CUDA if you know it bores your readers?

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Originally Posted by Movieman

All I have to say is that I've always looked at video cards like I have at cpu's,sometimes one company has the better product, sometimes the other has.
BUT a company has to understand that the one thing they HAVE to present to the public is believability no matter how they compare to their competitor.
AMD for example has handled this well during the C2D time frame when they were getting beat by Intel.
They worked on their line and brought forth better products to the point where today it's a damned close horse-race between the two companies.

nVidia is seems just hasn't "gotten it" that you can't play these games in the modern world with it's instant worldwide communication.
They will eventually but they will take a big hit in the pocketbook learning this fact.

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The voice of reason has spoken

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Originally Posted by saaya

wow... do you really think so?
a reviewer should basically ignore his own knowledge of the market, his readers and technology and just blindly follow the manufacturer in product reviews? i liked most of your reviews but this... puts them in a different light... :D

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Once again you are reading FAR too much into things.

No matter what you think yourself, CUDA and PhysX are FEATURES. While they may not have a large impact upon the current market, it is up to the writer to talk about FEATURES and let their readers decide if these FEATURES are right for them.

The same thing goes for ATI's Stream, OpenCL, DX11...etc, etc.

NO one said anything about blindly following anything. Talking about features in a matter of fact way without fawning over them is part of EDUCATING your readers.


And obviously, people still don't understand much about CUDA. Gamers don't care about it? Then I guess you don't care about OpenCL, PhysX, Folding@Home, DirectCompute, etc because CUDA is what provides the interface to access these things on NVIDIA GPUs. Again, the same goes for ATI's Stream Compute architecture.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

No matter what you think yourself, CUDA and PhysX are FEATURES. While they may not have a large impact upon the current market, it is up to the writer to talk about FEATURES and let their readers decide if these FEATURES are right for them.

The same thing goes for ATI's Stream, OpenCL, DX11...etc, etc.

NO one said anything about blindly following anything. Talking about features in a matter of fact way without fawning over them is part of EDUCATING your readers.


And obviously, people still don't understand much about CUDA. Gamers don't care about it? Then I guess you don't care about OpenCL, PhysX, Folding@Home, DirectCompute, etc because CUDA is what provides the interface to access these things on NVIDIA GPUs. Again, the same goes for ATI's Stream Compute architecture.

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Yeah it's all about just letting the average reader know about the features. Educating them about certain technologies such as CUDA, OpenCL, PhysX and DiectComputer really grabs their attention and makes them more likely to go to your site for future reviews on various tech.

Hardware Canucks, and Guru3d both educate the reader, and as a reader myself, i find it very interesting, even if i won't ever use the tech at all.

Almost everyone here learned about CUDA or OpenCL, or other technologies from a review sites, or forums. When a review site just doesn't mention them at all, it's only hurting them.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

It's BS IMO.

Hardware Secrets also shouldn't take it upon themselves to arbitrarily decide not to mention features (CUDA et all) just because the writer thinks they have no impact upon his readers. They are features which should be talked about even in passing in order to let said readers decide for themselves whether they are important or not.

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I respectfully disagree

While not mentioning CUDA might, in your opinion be wrong, they have every right to not mention it if they think it doesnt affect the readers, and nvidia blacklisting them for that is just plain childish

My respect for nvidia is all but gone now. Sad, really.

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Originally Posted by LightSpeed

I respectfully disagree

While not mentioning CUDA might, in your opinion be wrong, they have every right to not mention it if they think it doesnt affect the readers, and nvidia blacklisting them for that is just plain childish

My respect for nvidia is all but gone now. Sad, really.

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Stating that they were blacklisted to begin with is supposition. Thinking it was because of not mentioning PhysX or CUDA is just taking that supposition to the next level.

Sure they have a right not to mention something what may or may not affect their readers. However, they are doing their readers a disservice since one way or another since certain features (like CUDA) WILL end up having an impact in some way and readers should know more about them. You don't have to make love to a technology to educate people about it. State the facts and that's it.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Once again you are reading FAR too much into things.

No matter what you think yourself, CUDA and PhysX are FEATURES. While they may not have a large impact upon the current market, it is up to the writer to talk about FEATURES and let their readers decide if these FEATURES are right for them.

The same thing goes for ATI's Stream, OpenCL, DX11...etc, etc.

NO one said anything about blindly following anything. Talking about features in a matter of fact way without fawning over them is part of EDUCATING your readers.


And obviously, people still don't understand much about CUDA. Gamers don't care about it? Then I guess you don't care about OpenCL, PhysX, Folding@Home, DirectCompute, etc because CUDA is what provides the interface to access these things on NVIDIA GPUs. Again, the same goes for ATI's Stream Compute architecture.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Stating that they were blacklisted to begin with is supposition. Thinking it was because of not mentioning PhysX or CUDA is just taking that supposition to the next level.

Sure they have a right not to mention something what may or may not affect their readers. However, they are doing their readers a disservice since one way or another since certain features (like CUDA) WILL end up having an impact in some way and readers should know more about them. You don't have to make love to a technology to educate people about it. State the facts and that's it.

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When mentioning something people want to know more about it,dah.I think you know this already though so why sugar coat it.:shrug:Dx is not cuda based.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

NO one said anything about blindly following anything. Talking about features in a matter of fact way without fawning over them is part of EDUCATING your readers.

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then why dont you educate your readers and mention all the components that are used on the vga, starting with the smd capacitors and resistors, who manufactured it and what its specifications are and maybe talk a bit about the history of this particular component in the past 20 years? cause nobody cares thats why! :D
and you know what, some EE website might actually care, and their review might actually mention all those details cause their readers do care about it... but why would you force the press to talk about things they know their readers dont care about?

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

And obviously, people still don't understand much about CUDA. Gamers don't care about it? Then I guess you don't care about OpenCL, PhysX, Folding@Home, DirectCompute, etc because CUDA is what provides the interface to access these things on NVIDIA GPUs. Again, the same goes for ATI's Stream Compute architecture.

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most people dont care about opencl, physix, folding at home and direct compute... they want cool explosions and things blowing up and boobs jumping around realistically... they couldnt care less how its done and what marketing name XYZ company came up with for their interface or libraries to get those effects done...

this is like mercedes btching at some car magazine because they didnt mention that mercedes now calls the cigarette lighter "Ultra Cigarette Induction Coil (TM) (R)"... well they probably didnt mention it cause nobody cares...

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Originally Posted by saaya

then why dont you educate your readers and mention all the components that are used on the vga, starting with the smd capacitors and resistors, who manufactured it and what its specifications are and maybe talk a bit about the history of this particular component in the past 20 years? cause nobody cares thats why! :D
and you know what, some EE website might actually care, and their review might actually mention all those details cause their readers do care about it... but why would you force the press to talk about things they know their readers dont care about?

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Oh please. Since when are those features? So maybe websites shouldn't be mentioning DX11 either, right? Stop taking things to a ridiculous levels.

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most people dont care about opencl, physix, folding at home and direct compute... they want cool explosions and things blowing up and boobs jumping around realistically... they couldnt care less how its done and what marketing name XYZ company came up with for their interface or libraries to get those effects done...

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Actually your Mercedes analogy is exactly what you talked about above. There is a clear line between information that matters and TOO MUCH information. Do I need to know about the new cig lighter in the car? Probably not. But do I need to know about things that will affect how I drive the car like traction control or technical achievements like gull-wing doors that open at the touch of a button? You betcha.

And some people read the conclusion of a review and that's it. So what's your point? That websites should pop up a bunch of benchmarks without telling people who CARE how things work? Sorry, that won't go over with me at all.

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Originally Posted by FoldingFanatic

I am not sure why anyone would use ole charlie as an example of unbiased reporting. because hes probably the most biased individual on the net today. And is the worst example of impartial reporting I have ever seen, and this is coming from a former editor.

EG

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Yes, but he tells more truth than Nvidia, so what does that say?

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Originally Posted by Hell Hound

Dx is not cuda based.

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No it isn't but DirectCompute is the API while CUDA or ATI's Stream is the means by which DirectCompute can communicate with NVIDIA and ATI cards.

Let's draw out a Star Trek reference here. Think of OpenCL, DirectCompute, Fortran, etc as aliens that all speak different languages. The only way for us humans to understand them is by way of a universal translator according to the Star Trek universe. Now, replace the humans above with NVIDIA and ATI GPUs and CUDA / Stream becomes the universal translator. Simple, no?

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

It's BS IMO.

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Yeh of course it is, and don't you just hate biased/corrupted opinions, when someone is supposed to be impartial...

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

So according to Charlie, we would be cut out. A number of other large websites would be cut out as well (HardOCP, LegitReviews, Anandtech just to name a few) but they aren't and won't be.

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Charlie said that the sites that would be cut out would be the ones that were small enough to be pushed around...

Also I remember HardOCP doing some serious Nv pandering after their initial rather negative GTX480 review.

I have a feeling, Nv don't feel the need to offer a you a list of talking points :shakes:...

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Stating that they were blacklisted to begin with is supposition. Thinking it was because of not mentioning PhysX or CUDA is just taking that supposition to the next level.

Sure they have a right not to mention something what may or may not affect their readers. However, they are doing their readers a disservice since one way or another since certain features (like CUDA) WILL end up having an impact in some way and readers should know more about them. You don't have to make love to a technology to educate people about it. State the facts and that's it.

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Seriously... do you ever stop defending Nv??? a company that has demonstrated it's moral bankruptcy publicly many times, and then take every opportunity to sneakily boo boo anything Ati? Seriously I'm not the only one who notices... you have been called out more than once!!!

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Originally Posted by stinkas

Charlie said that the sites that would be cut out would be the ones that were small enough to be pushed around...

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Yup. Then that would be us. We're nowhere near the size of the Hardware Secrets / Brazilian site combination that Gabriel owns. ;)

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Originally Posted by stinkas

Seriously... do you ever stop defending Nv??? a company that has demonstrated it's moral bankruptcy publicly many times, and then take every opportunity to sneakily boo boo anything Ati? Seriously I'm not the only one who notices... you have been called out more than once!!!

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Give it a break. Seriously. Every post I have made here is an effort to shed additional light on the situation. The fact of the matter is that it has become the flavor of the year to bash NV and anyone who tries to talk facts has exactly what you posted above said to them. Nice try though, I've heard it all.

in during excrement storm.

But seriously though, I think everyone needs to take a step back from this one before someone says something they'll later regret. I think we can all agree that the behaviour from nVidia in this regard has been counterproductive and reprehensible, regardless of whether users want to be told whether their card supports CUDA or not.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Yup. Then that would be us. We're nowhere near the size of the Hardware Secrets / Brazilian site combination that Gabriel owns. ;)

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Yes, Gabriel commented on that point below. It also adds a lot of weight to the probability that this is how Nv operate considering he isn't some small time reviewer that can be easily 'rewarded' for their reviews.

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Originally Posted by Gabriel

They must think that we are a small entity, forgetting that I am also the editor-in-chief of Clube do Hardware, the largest website about computers in Brazil, with 20 million pageviews and 7.5 million visitors per month – yes, this website is bigger than most North-American reviewing websites (all reviews posted on Hardware Secrets are also posted on Clube do Hardware).

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

The fact of the matter is that it has become the flavor of the year to bash NV and anyone who tries to talk facts has exactly what you posted above said to them. Nice try though, I've heard it all.

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Why do you suppose that is???

i'm all with SKYMTL here. some people here claim he's biased, but reading his comments it seems he's the only one with common sense in this thread and with a rather objective view on this topic.

charlie is by no means better than nvidia. we all know charlie hates nvidia and that he uses every topic to write bad about them. charlie is often talking crap, so is nvidia as well. but how come people believe one over the other? they're both the same in the end though.

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Originally Posted by RaZz!

some people here claim he's biased

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This is becoming increasingly obvious... which is sad.

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Originally Posted by RaZz!

charlie is by no means better than nvidia. we all know charlie hates nvidia and that he uses every topic to write bad about them. charlie is often talking crap, so is nvidia as well. but how come people believe one over the other? they're both the same in the end though.

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I think you'l find that Charlie has been a much more reliable source than Nv...

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Originally Posted by BoredByLife

None of the gamers care about CUDA. Physx, maybe, but CUDA??? If you are a game site, why should you explain anything about CUDA if you know it bores your readers?

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you dont care about it yet. directcompute will be used quite a bit in future games. it's arguably as important, if not more than tessellation or other features of d3d like geometry shaders or stream out.

i agree with SKYMTL, not talking about CUDA and Physx is like not talking about how well fermi does in benchmarks but just talking about how fast it can fry an egg.

stinkas: SKYMTL has already said it is like not talking about steam/eyefinity. And i can tell your not bias by your sig pic

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Originally Posted by TRICHEESE

i agree with SKYMTL, not talking about CUDA and Physx is like not talking about how well fermi does in benchmarks but just talking about how fast it can fry an egg.

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So why isn't SKYMTL talking about Eyefinity & Stream. Like them or not they are still features, one of which is particularly important and you would think he would be dead keen to educate his readers. Bah can't afford another couple of monitors? Yeah right...

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Originally Posted by TRICHEESE

And i can tell your not bias by your sig pic

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Lol, maybe I am! probably because there is only so much crap I can swallow... (But I'm not a reviewer)

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Originally Posted by stinkas

Yes, Gabriel commented on that point below. It also adds a lot of weight to the probability that this is how Nv operate considering he isn't some small time reviewer that can be easily 'rewarded' for their reviews.

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Size means a lot when it comes to who is "in" and who isn't. This is why I doubt that merely failing to mention PhysX / CUDA played a major part in the Hardware Secrets / NVIDIA fall out.

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Originally Posted by stinkas

So why isn't SKYMTL talking about Eyefinity & Stream. Like them or not they are still features, one of which is particularly important and you would think he would be dead keen to educate his readers. Bah can't afford another couple of monitors? Yeah right...

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so your saying he should tell us all the features of Eyefinity and Stream because he's told us about all the features of CUDA and Physx

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Originally Posted by stinkas

So why isn't SKYMTL talking about Eyefinity & Stream. Like them or not they are still features, one of which is particularly important and you would think he would be dead keen to educate his readers. Bah can't afford another couple of monitors? Yeah right...

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I count AT LEAST a half dozen times I have mentioned Stream in this thread.

Not to mention:

ATI's support of OpenCL through Stream and praising their open standards push:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...-review-4.html

ATI Eyefinity:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...-review-5.html


Discussions about their HD Audio and VIdeo initiatives as well:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...-review-6.html


Seriously, every major feature that BOTH NVIDIA and ATI have SHOULD be talked about. Which we and every other sensible website does...

Personally, I think Eyefinity and 3D Vision Surround are elitist solutions that cater to a very small part of the market. Should that stop me from talking about them? NO!

i'm also with skymtl here, there has been no proof apart from charlies "sources", ALL features must be covered... mentioning that a new minivan targetted at houseswives has a twin turbo engine is necessary even if the target audience doesnt care. CUDA is a very important feature as is directcompute, i think you'll find in the near future a lot of cpu based tasks in games such as view frustum culling, pathfinding and collision detection might move to the GPU via interfaces like openCL / CUDA / directcompute.

just my 2c and also want to mention that I also feel that skymtl is the only voice of reason in this thread.

As I staed earlier I am a fan boy of what product is best for the task at hand. I have several folding farms and like it or not ATI lack horsepower in this dept so I use Nvidia GPUs, because the price per performance is there. But my new gaming rig is going to be 5970's in crossfire X.

But as to charlie go back through his articles and you will certainly see that he is biased against nvidia. I am not saying that theres no truth to his articles, but his information has proved unreliable and openly biased in the past. So therefore he gets treated like any know liar and gets ignored by me.

Like I stated I resigned my position because a company I will not name gave me a list of hardware I was able to test theres against. If i had done the testing according to there guide lines the results would have been skewed.

I refuse to talk up a product I believe is straight garbage, and was faced with only two options, lie or quit.

But no matter how you slice this topic you will recieve opinions, not facts. And we all know opinions are like tail holes we all have them some just stink worse than others.

Folding For The future
EG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

I count AT LEAST a half dozen times I have mentioned Stream in this thread.

Not to mention:

ATI's support of OpenCL through Stream and praising their open standards push:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...-review-4.html

ATI Eyefinity:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...-review-5.html


Discussions about their HD Audio and VIdeo initiatives as well:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...-review-6.html


Seriously, every major feature that BOTH NVIDIA and ATI have SHOULD be talked about. Which we and every other sensible website does...

Personally, I think Eyefinity and 3D Vision Surround are elitist solutions that cater to a very small part of the market. Should that stop me from talking about them? NO!

---

Well let's hope you can grab another couple of monitors someday so you can make better fully comprehensive conclusions about the products and features, as these features are important to readers as you previously said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FoldingFanatic

But as to charlie go back through his articles and you will certainly see that he is biased against nvidia. I am not saying that theres no truth to his articles, but his information has proved unreliable and openly biased in the past. So therefore he gets treated like any know liar and gets ignored by me.

---

Yes of course it's obvious he doesn't like Nv, he doesn't hide the fact, but Very rarely has he been plain wrong about Fermi, he is usually pretty close to the mark...
However Nv has been caught telling barefaced porkies lot's of times! so is Nv on your ignore list also?

hmm I guess it's simple:

Want me to believe your review?????? Show me a retail receipt! ;)

^^^
Hit nail on head...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TRICHEESE

so your saying he should tell us all the features of Eyefinity and Stream because he's told us about all the features of CUDA and Physx

---

If someone mentions in a review features of ONE company product, then he is obliged to write about features of OTHER COMPANIES products as well.

Otherwise he is not professional and thats just pushing the reader in ONE DIRECTION. :shrug:

^^^
This guy get's it!

Edit:
Lol! I was responding to your first comment but posted at same time.

no but the point is he has just mentioned the names, not the features

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TRICHEESE

no but the point is he has just mentioned the names, not the features

---

It just seems to me that NV is pushing reviewers to write about Cuda / PissX and some are just to glad to follow without mentioning Stream / Eyefinity.

Thats just not professional - no matter how hard someone tries to justify it.

And the name for charlies site is just classic and explains most of what needs to be said about him. Semi-accurate. Hmm wonder where that comes from.

Nvidia and ATI are both on my poop list if you want me to be truthful. ATI because they have neglected to spend adequate time with Stanford and the Pande group getting F@H running well on there GPUs , thus forcing me to use nvidias GPUs (even if I didnt want too) And nvidia for making a GPU thats a better direct compute monster than a gaming GPU. Both have been caught with there pants down in the past and ended up looking foolish for not disclosing something.

Like it or not: Intel or AMD fan, or nvidia or ATI fan. Dosent matter we need these comapnies in the market, because if one went under the constant push forward would stop and the market would become stagnant with no reason to push the envelope.

Folding For The Future
EG

@shadov
I even read one 5870 review (can't remember which one) and it had lack of cuda support listed in the 'cons' section of the conclusion with not even so much as a mention of stream.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

most people dont care about opencl, physix, folding at home and direct compute... they want cool explosions and things blowing up and boobs jumping around realistically... .

---

Sigged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FoldingFanatic

And the name for charlies site is just classic and explains most of what needs to be said about him. Semi-accurate. Hmm wonder where that comes from.

Nvidia and ATI are both on my poop list if you want me to be truthful. ATI because they have neglected to spend adequate time with Stanford and the Pande group getting F@H running well on there GPUs , thus forcing me to use nvidias GPUs (even if I didnt want too) And nvidia for making a GPU thats a better direct compute monster than a gaming GPU. Both have been caught with there pants down in the past and ended up looking foolish for not disclosing something.

Like it or not: Intel or AMD fan, or nvidia or ATI fan. Dosent matter we need these comapnies in the market, because if one went under the constant push forward would stop and the market would become stagnant with no reason to push the envelope.

Folding For The Future
EG

---

Yeh I can agree with most of the above, but the point I'm trying to make, is Nv have consistently taken sleaze to a whole new level, and I'm not about to sit back and say nothing let alone buy one of their products.

Thats just my humble opinion. Dont get me wrong I never want to argue on any forum. But a good debate stimulates the mind.

And I am glad you see where I am coming from. I am sorry if I came across wrong, but thats just my 2 cents. So take it for what its worth.

Folding For The Future
EG

I feel like the majority of what i'm reading here is purely based on assumptions of what has been stated by various sites. Lets also remember that many sites have had issues or do have issues getting cards from nvidia prior to launches and that quite a few of them hard a serious grudge against the company regardless of their good or bad policies. My point of view is that people within companies can mess up and it might not always be the company itself at fault. How do we know that they simply were dealing with a guy who was a PITA? I feel like the majority of this could have been handled privately rather than going out and posting about being "blacklisted." Lets remember, this isn't the first time a site has claimed to be blacklisted for one action or another... As for things like CUDA? Tbh... it depends on your readership and if you want your review to be comprehensive i feel that you need to cover every aspect of the product that is considered a feature and could set the product apart from the competition. To continue to grumble on and on about how bad nvidia as a company or how bad their products are is really point pointless and completely goes on a tangent from the real issue here. These guys believe they've been blacklisted and are now going on publicly stating why they THINK that has happened... Has anyone tried to contact upper management? For those who say Nvidia is a "sleazy" company... if you guys were reviewers you'd understand that whatever is being said about Nvidia is not an isolated case to just nvidia. There are plenty of companies who do everything within their power to recommend specific benchmarks and specific conditions to make sure that the review is favorable and even when there's nothing good to say about the product... some sites STILL find a way to make things rosy and award bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: awards. If there's one thing i hate its all of these bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: awards being given out for products that don't even deserve a mention. These awards heavily tie into the whole being blacklisted thing...

/rant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadov

It just seems to me that NV is pushing reviewers to write about Cuda / PissX and some are just to glad to follow without mentioning Stream / Eyefinity.

---

Yes, I know this will sound biased and I apologize in advance for telling the truth.

NVIDIA has made it a point to sink a lot of time, effort, development dollars AND marketing dollars into "Graphics Plus". No one can deny that. As such, there is quite a bit to talk about.

Eyefinity on the other hand is ATI's only "Graphics Plus" technology that has been actively released and supported. They TALK a lot about Stream and its compatibility with open standards but they don't really have concrete implementations to show for it. This isn't necessarily a knock against them but they are playing catch up in this field. They'll surely catch up at some point but right now all they really have is PowerPoint shows for Havok, Pixeluxx, etc and a cobbled-together video converter.

So naturally there are many more talking points for NVIDIA's features but this shouldn't be confused with a bias in any way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JAWS

hmm I guess it's simple:

Want me to believe your review?????? Show me a retail receipt! ;)

---

Receiving a free review sample doesn't make the reviewer a dishonest person.
You just need the b*lls to be absolutely honest in your review.
Unfortunately only a very limited few have what it takes & do so however.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JAWS

hmm I guess it's simple:

Want me to believe your review?????? Show me a retail receipt! ;)

---

Because the only possible way to be compensated/bribed is with free review samples. :rolleyes:

It's good to see honest like reviewers like SKYMTL set the record straight. :up:

All too often on this forum, the general anti Nvidia sentiment causes people to come to premature conclusions without examining all the facts.. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MpG

Because the only possible way to be compensated/bribed is with free review samples. :rolleyes:

---

So it seems with Nv at least... :yepp:

Just another cr@ppy article of hater on salary of AMD, the looser hate NV in his guts. So no wonder he writes like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Give it a break. Seriously. Every post I have made here is an effort to shed additional light on the situation. The fact of the matter is that it has become the flavor of the year to bash NV and anyone who tries to talk facts has exactly what you posted above said to them. Nice try though, I've heard it all.

---

Nvidia has brought it all on themselves. The vast majority of people do not bash Nvidia just for the sake of bashing them, Nvidia is largely to blame for the negativity surrounding them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

So it seems with Nv at least... :yepp:

---

That's coming from your experience I guess ?

Because the truth is most manufacturers try to "step on the small websites toes", sometimes try to "hard on" the big ones ( softly & gently :p: and then backing up if the website insists like they should ).

They can afford to lose a small site ( that's gonna bite them in the a*s if they grow up and go big afterward though :D ), but with the big names they just toss the not so hungry dog a bone that usually comes back like a boomerang.

Unethical tactics ? For sure.
But that's life unfortunately, the big fish eats the small fish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carfax

It's good to see honest like reviewers like SKYMTL set the record straight. :up:

---

I truly hope he is as you say. The thing is due to all of Nv's recent underhanded actions (too many to be bothered to list) it makes it hard for anyone to:
a) Defend Nv
b) Believe anyone who is defending Nv

In my opinion Nv is just no longer defend-able. If there wasn't so many separate instances of potential Nv sleaze then I wouldn't be quite so judgemental and could give them the benefit of the doubt on a few occasions, but anyone who can put 2 & 2 together knows the score as far as Nv is concerned. And I'm someone who used to only buy Nv!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carfax

All too often on this forum, the general anti Nvidia sentiment causes people to come to premature conclusions without examining all the facts.. :rolleyes:

---

Just lately it seem where Nv is concerned, it's always the same story. Maybe one day Nv will get the blame for something it hasn't done, but that day will be the exception rather than the rule...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

So it seems with Nv at least... :yepp:

---

Says who? Charlie? :rofl::rofl:

I basically agree with a little bit of what everyone is saying, but mostly Movieman is right.

All of the involved parties should learn about the power of the free flow of information and how they aren't going to stop it. Hardware secrets should learn that trying to hide information isn't a good way to gain readership. I learned about PhysX, Cuda, Etc from a dozen biased/unbiased reviews before I even got to hardware secrets. I glanced through their review so quick I don't even remember it. Hiding information (or even just laziness) doesn't often work and it doesn't end up helping you when it doesn't - but creating new information does, and people are going to learn about that too. And as with Charlie's "new information" people will soon learn if it is true or not as well, lol.

And I'm sure you guys know why I think Nvidia should realize they can't stop the flow of information ;).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BenchZowner

That's coming from your experience I guess ?

Because the truth is most manufacturers try to "step on the small websites toes", sometimes try to "hard on" the big ones ( softly & gently :p: and then backing up if the website insists like they should ).

They can afford to lose a small site ( that's gonna bite them in the a*s if they grow up and go big afterward though :D ), but with the big names they just toss the not so hungry dog a bone that usually comes back like a boomerang.

Unethical tactics ? For sure.
But that's life unfortunately, the big fish eats the small fish.

---

Please get real, I can't believe you are trying to defend corruption here!

Does this mean we should pardon any immoral act Nv imposes on other companies and general public, simply because someone else has also committed such infringements? Why not name and shame the other culprits also!

If that's what you understood then I guess you're just here to troll and start the flame-baiting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Says who? Charlie? :rofl::rofl:

---

:clap::ROTF:

Gabriel Torres, editor-in-chief of Clube do Hardware, the largest website about computers in Brazil, with 20 million pageviews and 7.5 million visitors per month.

Oh and Kyle Bennett at HardOCP.com

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/02/...stock_plummets

Looks like it's not just Charlie any more! Others are now beginning to back up what what Charlie been saying about Nv for years/months...

I think defending such a company like Nv (again a list of what Nv has done to deserve this is too long) is causing you more harm than good and you may want to re-think your stance maybe?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BenchZowner

If that's what you understood then I guess you're just here to troll and start the flame-baiting.

---

So you wasn't trying to use the fact that other companies in the history of commerce have committed sleazy act's as well so we should therefore excuse Nv because 'thats life'?

If I'v got that wrong then please fill me in on what you actually meant...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

:clap::ROTF:

Gabriel Torres, editor-in-chief of Clube do Hardware, the largest website about computers in Brazil, with 20 million pageviews and 7.5 million visitors per month.

Oh and Kyle Bennett at HardOCP.com

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/02/...stock_plummets

Looks like it's not just Charlie any more! Others are now beginning to back up what what Charlie been saying about Nv for years/months...

I think defending such a company like Nv (again a list of what Nv has done to deserve this is too long) is causing you more harm than good and you may want to re-think your stance maybe?

---

I recall this article over at Anandtech (towards the bottom). Interesting we are seeing something similar at Hardware Secrets.

Wow thanks for the link!

Do you still call BS on all this SKYMTL, or are you having second thoughts yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derek Wilson at Anandtech

"For What it's Worth
Early last week Charlie over at The Inquirer posted a story saying that a number of reviewers were cut out of the GeForce GTS 250 launch. We felt a bit hurt, by the time the story launched we weren't even asked to be briefed about the GTS 250. Cards had already gone out to other reviewers but we weren't on any lists. Oh, pout.

Magically, a couple of days after Charlie's article we got invited to a NVIDIA briefing and we had a GTS 250 to test. Perhaps NVIDIA was simply uncharacteristically late in briefing us about a new GPU launch. Perhaps NVIDIA was afraid we'd point out that it was nothing more than a 9800 GTX+ that ran a little cooler. Or perhaps we haven't been positive enough about CUDA and PhysX and NVIDIA was trying to punish us.

Who knows what went on at NVIDIA prior to the launch, we're here to review the card, but for what it's worth - thank you Charlie :)"

---

Heh. Gotta love nVidia.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/blog/...re-Secrets/174

In effect, SKYMTL, you are implying Gabriel is a liar. Forget Charlie, he's a middleman. Are you saying Gabriel has outright lied? Yes or no. Either what he posted was wrong, or right.

:sofa: "Checkmate"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

:clap::ROTF:

Gabriel Torres, editor-in-chief of Clube do Hardware, the largest website about computers in Brazil, with 20 million pageviews and 7.5 million visitors per month.

Oh and Kyle Bennett at HardOCP.com

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/02/...stock_plummets

Looks like it's not just Charlie any more! Others are now beginning to back up what what Charlie been saying about Nv for years/months...

I think defending such a company like Nv (again a list of what Nv has done to deserve this is too long) is causing you more harm than good and you may want to re-think your stance maybe?

---

While i see that nvidia occasionally leaves certain review sites out of certain product launches, for reasons which usually leave me dumbfounded, the majority of sites that are "blacklisted" still end up getting hardware for other launches and a single product launch such as the GTS 250 was not the end of [H] getting nvidia hardware, I highly doubt that they're paying for the Nvidia hardware they do get and that nvidia isn't inviting them anywhere or sampling them. I mean cmon guys... Its really frustrating to see stuff like this happen to sites but once you've had it happen to you before you learn to just not care and move on. This entire thing has been, yet again, blown out of proportion.

Also, regarding that article on hardocp... how in the heck does Nvidia's stock price have anything to do with the GTS 250??? :rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegras

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/blog/...re-Secrets/174

In effect, SKYMTL, you are implying Gabriel is a liar. Forget Charlie, he's a middleman. Are you saying Gabriel has outright lied? Yes or no. Either what he posted was wrong, or right.

---

I don't think he's saying that... i rather believe that maybe Gabriel jumped the gun on saying he was blacklisted... the term blacklisted is a fairly strong word and to use it means you know almost indefinitely. or that you're simply being sensationalist. I hope that he wasn't blacklisted and that it was a simple case of some employee being a :banana::banana::banana::banana: to him and that management can sort out the solution. But i mean, there have been cases that i've seen where nvidia has told someone to take down an article about something that is NDA *cough* us and then forgot that they decided NOT to include us in the events... so we weren't bound by any NDAs whatsoever. There's a difference between trying to be unbiased and being spiteful and i feel like some people have grown spiteful of certain companies. Nvidia has definitely managed to do that with some people in the past.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

So you wasn't trying to use the fact that other companies in the history of commerce have committed sleazy act's as well so we should therefore excuse Nv because 'thats life'?

If I'v got that wrong then please fill me in on what you actually meant...

---

Basically all you need to do is what you should've done from the beginning.
It's quite obvious that you didn't read the whole thread.

^^^
No I have, I just like to cut through the BS...

@Russian

Just sounds like excuses to me. Sometimes people can't see things even when it's staring them in the face.

man you guys are cracking me up.so many different arguments that change from page to page.
i feel a new one coming on:D

Yeah, I don't think Nvidia or Charlie can be taken as gospel. Charlie has been getting the better of Nvidia as of late obviously, but while he tends to do well with fact he tends to exaggerate in his commentary.

As far as people claiming that SKYMTL is pro-Nvidia, you guys seriously haven't read any of his posts in the numerous physX threads? While he isn't an Nvidia fanboy, I find his argument about needing to pay lip service to CUDA and physX as ridiculous. If a reviewer wants to spend more time actually benchmarking than talking about features we all know about, then that's fine. We also can't seriously expect reviewers to touch on every feature. The only problem I can see is if the feature coverage becomes one sided. For example, if a reviewer spends pages talking about Cuda and PhysX without mentioning Eyefinity or SSAA (it may just be me, but SSAA is more important to me than any of those other features combines) on the AMD side that would seem to be betraying a bias. Ditto if the reviewer hypes AMD specific features with little regards for the Nvidia ones.

In terms of whether or not hardware-secrets was blacklisted, I guess time will tell. EDIT: NM, seems confirmed by H-S themselves now.

My prediction is HS suddenly find themselves un-blacklisted...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

^^^
No I have, I just like to cut through the BS...

---

Yes. Selectively.

Feel free to address "The List", which SKYMTL admitted to scoring quite poorly on. Nevermind those ATI links, where he not only praises ATI, but actually says (regarding OpenCL) "Considering these are three of the most popular physics engines on the market, ATI is well placed to make PhysX a thing of the past." And if you've seen his posting, he's had no qualms about criticising Nvidia's shortcomings over the years. So feel free to offer more than trite one-liners.

Now, as for your willingness to accept Charlie at face value, to say nothing of both offering an [H] article as evidence, but also stating that they pandering to Nvidia following a poor review? Nevermind,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

I think defending such a company like Nv (again a list of what Nv has done to deserve this is too long) is causing you more harm than good and you may want to re-think your stance maybe?

---

You mean, pander to the masses? With an attitude like this, thank goodness you're not a hardware reviewer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

^^^
No I have, I just like to cut through the BS...

@Russian

Just sounds like excuses to me. Sometimes people can't see things even when it's staring them in the face.

---

What do you mean by excuses dude? Have you ever dealt with these companies on a reviewer's level? As a customer? As a supplier? As a contractor?

Then you'd know that companies are made up of people and that people are not perfect. People screw up and sometimes it reflects upon the company... and usually the company as a whole finds a way to deal with it. Thats how corporations work.

As for the "confirmation" tidbit... how did they "confirm" that they were indeed black listed. It hasn't even been 2 weeks since that review...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

My prediction is HS suddenly find themselves un-blacklisted...

---

Unless they were never "blacklisted" from the beginning...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegras

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/blog/...re-Secrets/174

In effect, SKYMTL, you are implying Gabriel is a liar. Forget Charlie, he's a middleman. Are you saying Gabriel has outright lied? Yes or no. Either what he posted was wrong, or right.

---

I'm not saying he lied at all. I am just saying he doesn't have enough information to publish a story claiming that NVIDIA cut him off BECAUSE OF his lack of coverage regarding certain topics. It's called jumping to conclusions. Which is wrong when you publish said assumptions under the public's watchful eye.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

I'm not saying he lied at all. I am just saying he doesn't have enough information to publish a story claiming that NVIDIA cut him off BECAUSE OF his lack of coverage regarding certain topics. It's called jumping to conclusions.

---

http://www.flashpointdevelopment.com...usions-mat.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Russian

Unless they were never "blacklisted" from the beginning...

---

Well no, I was actually thinking because of the below.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derek Wilson at Anandtech

"For What it's Worth
Early last week Charlie over at The Inquirer posted a story saying that a number of reviewers were cut out of the GeForce GTS 250 launch. We felt a bit hurt, by the time the story launched we weren't even asked to be briefed about the GTS 250. Cards had already gone out to other reviewers but we weren't on any lists. Oh, pout.

Magically, a couple of days after Charlie's article we got invited to a NVIDIA briefing and we had a GTS 250 to test. Perhaps NVIDIA was simply uncharacteristically late in briefing us about a new GPU launch. Perhaps NVIDIA was afraid we'd point out that it was nothing more than a 9800 GTX+ that ran a little cooler. Or perhaps we haven't been positive enough about CUDA and PhysX and NVIDIA was trying to punish us.

Who knows what went on at NVIDIA prior to the launch, we're here to review the card, but for what it's worth - thank you Charlie :)"

---

Basically, that is a list of things a reviewer has to talk about if they want Nvidia to send them free review samples. Why would Nvidia send people free samples of their cards that don't talk about the positives Nvida outlined? It's not like that's all they can talk about. Nvidia is not obligated to give out free cards to reviewers. I would bet my life AMD has a list of things reviewers have to talk about in a review in order to receive free cards.

The guy from Hardware Secrets is just upset about no more free cards. And Charlie's uncanny ability to spin something that is not unusual or bad and turn it into a scathing negative and create masses of lynch mobs and burnings of Jen-Hsun Huang in effigy is just scary, and puts them in a very poor light.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

Do you still call BS on all this SKYMTL, or are you having second thoughts yet?

---

I will continue to call BS. Why? Because from what I see HardOCP, Anandtech, etc. has CONTINUED to receive NVIDIA pre-release samples to this date.

At the time, NVIDIA made it quite obvious that they weren't releasing samples of certain renamed cards like the GTS 250 and GT 240 due to their similarity to the past generation. Rather, they were relying on their partners to sample sites. I have this IN WRITING. Whether or not certain sites got butthurt isn't my problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SKYMTL

I'm not saying he lied at all. I am just saying he doesn't have enough information to publish a story claiming that NVIDIA cut him off BECAUSE OF his lack of coverage regarding certain topics. It's called jumping to conclusions. Which is wrong when you publish said assumptions under the public's watchful eye.

---

I would agree if it was an isolated incident, but it isn't, it seems to 'keep' happening.

And when you factor in all the other BS Nv have pulled recently, I think you have your answer...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkas

Well no, I was actually thinking because of the below.

---

I recall that situation, and it really had a lot to do with the fact that nvidia knew that they were releasing a re-badged product and that they only wanted to sample those who would not say that it was basically a 9800GTX that really has NOTHING to do with being blacklisted.

For those who forget the definition of the term...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklist

When i hear someone say that they're blacklisted... I don't think they're getting excluded from one product cycle or one review. I read that as saying that they're being completely cut out from all current and future events/samples from that company. Nevertheless, my opinion on this topic is that using the term blacklisted is very strong and should only be reserved for when someone has concrete evidence of that fact. Not circumstantial things that are based on some inkling of the fact that nvidia was unhappy with a review that is not even 2 weeks old. I mean, how many nvidia events could occur within a 2 week span that HS could have been invited to. And how many product launches? :confused: