120-240mm AIO/sealed, low cost, WC systems

It's actually for for HTPC build, so extreme OC is not mandatory...
I assume there's still users in this forum who don't necessarily OC everything they own? :)

I've been doing a lot of reading and I've ascertained that a slightly modded H50 can come close to or equal the best air coolers at load.
And it usually surpasses them and remains more consistent/stable at idle.

Granted at the expense of not being much quieter, but with some creative mounting it should definitely be less cluttered in a mATX case.
I'm interested how the Eco might also weigh-up to that....

Or 240mm cousins of the H50 may be a little more palatable to some of the 'custom loopers' in this sub-forum ;)
http://www.ncixus.com/products/35702...012200/Asetek/
http://www.northq.com/products/coolers/nq3590.html

*edit* changed OP as it was not clear.

I haven't seen any reviews, but I went by their booth at the CES show and their stuff was awesome. Sorry, I know that didn't help.

Their last revision (Domino) was pretty ordinary compared to the Corsair H50 (based on something created by Asetek).
I'm hoping they've improved dramatically. Alas I can't wait, but I'll be hanging around to see the outcome....

It's cheap and made by CoolIT... that should tell you something, right? :p:

I haven't seen a good review of one yet and haven't had a chance to play with one myself. Though, I've been told that they were putting on a little smoke & mirrors "demonstration" with one at CES. Unfortunately, I wasn't feeling well enough at the time to drag myself to their booth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Petra

It's cheap and made by CoolIT... that should tell you something, right? :p:.

---

Maybe, but I also wanna see solid comparative data/reviews.


good-night.

this is an enthusiast watercooling forum.

Not a basic cooling section.

True that product does belong in this section, however, your only gonna get bad comments about it.

Why? because look at the other posts and around... this isnt a place to ask about prebuilt kits, unless it has at least a 120x2 radiator attached to it.

Okay thanks for your opinion...
By all means feel free to ignore the thread if it disinterests you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

this is an enthusiast watercooling forum.

Not a basic cooling section.

True that product does belong in this section, however, your only gonna get bad comments about it.

Why? because look at the other posts and around... this isnt a place to ask about prebuilt kits, unless it has at least a 120x2 radiator attached to it.

---

well

no its not..

it says.. liquid cooling section... not xtreme elitist water cooling selection...

I know your well respected and you have a good knowledge on watercooling... but don't be an ass... if thats all he can afford just advise hmi it would be wiser to save up and purchase a better cooling solution..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004

well

no its not..

it says.. liquid cooling section... not xtreme elitist water cooling selection...

---

no my comment was meant as take all other comments as a grain of salt.

Because if u look at all the other prekits brought on this forum, it was flamed.

So i am warning the op, what people will say about it, is because everyone is up'd significantly in tier.

And if i wanted to be mean, i would of added personal comments about the product instead it was just a warning to the op letting him know he will get a lot of negative statements about it.

I understand your rationale now, thanks for clarifying Naekuh, no hard feelings.
As now clarified in my OP, I have no intention to do much (if anything) in the way of OC.

Thanks.

Its a prebuilt kit, like the H5O.

I even had the corsair Rep state the H5O is not intended to compete against other water kits:

I am a Mod on AT, and this is an Official Corsair Rep:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imported_Barbarossa

I should hope so, the Swiftech Compact costs more than twice as much!

I respect your opinion - but the rest of your post isn't describing the approach we took with the H50. You're describing a great product - one that would outperform the H50, but would be much, much more expensive.

We've partnered with Swiftech before on products - the Corsair COOL, for example. We've also produced external cooling solutions like the Nautilus 500.

In reality - the number of people who spend more than $100 on CPU cooling is very small, and most of them are going to build their own liquid cooling loop.

From a sales perspective - there just aren't enough customers to justify the development costs. That doesn't mean that we won't do it - it just means it's harder to make money if we decide to do that.

Thanks for your comments - you've really brought the opposing viewpoint out and showed that there are some people out there that the H50 isn't designed for. We knew that to begin with - we never wanted to compete with the Swiftech unit, but instead were trying to compete against high-end aircooling.

So yeah, you can buy a TRUE and lap it, do the washer mod, get some decent fans and you'll outperform the H50 in a high-airflow case. But for most people - they'd rather buy something off the shelf and have it work right out of the box.

We're not trying to be the best CPU cooler in the world - just the best one for ~$70.


PS - if you want to see it pitted against an IFX-14, check here: http://www.informaticaeasy.net...s-ifx-14.html?start=10

It's in Italian but the graphs are easily understood. We're very competitive with the IFX-14.

---

So there target audience isnt people who really want a migration to water.
The swiftech compact is even considered lacking on this forum... :P

It will perform about as good as an top class air sink.
And if your HTPC doesnt have a 120mm spot, it will be harder to install then a HTPC sink from thermalright.

http://jab-tech.com/Thermalright-AXP...k-pr-4375.html
http://www.jab-tech.com/images/D/AXP140.jpg

Ive used 2 of those guys on HTPC systems... they will pull off what your asking for quietly on a 140mm fan.
And less hassles associated with water to begin with.

Yes I do realise all this, but thanks for clarifying further.
I just want to know if the Eco's better still than the H50.

Interesting suggestion RE the AXP-140, I will keep it in mind, thanks.

The 240mm pre-builts 'sans mods' should be better than air cooling, but I'm not sure I'm interested in them.
And again nothing compared to custom loops....

Thats a shame these kits get flamed at all. I am interesting in seeing how one of these perform and its a shame I have to go out to other sites to see reviews.

Not everything I do is on the extreme side of things, but I would prefer to see unbiased reviews by people who know what they are talking about with out it becoming a flame on the product.

If its a smoke and mirror game that was at CES then great, lets set the record stright without making side comments to back that up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Buckeye

Thats a shame these kits get flamed at all. I am interesting in seeing how one of these perform and its a shame I have to go out to other sites to see reviews.

Not everything I do is on the extreme side of things, but I would prefer to see unbiased reviews by people who know what they are talking about with out it becoming a flame on the product.

---

:wasntme:

edit: been working on documentation all day, emoticon responses are all I can do at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

Yes I realise all this, but thanks for clarifying further.
The 240mm pre-builts I linked to should be a slightly different matter, but I'm not sure I'm interested in them.
And again nothing compared to custom loops....

---

well the problem your gonna run into is air space.

Thats why i usually air cool my htpcs.

Your cpu is not the only thing that needs to keep cool.

Your ram, northbridge, mosfets, gpu requires air.

when building a HTPC, just remember, its not a desktop so its OC doesnt need to be up there, and things get hot the faster you ramp them up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq2UV...ayer_embedded#

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skinnee

:wasntme:

edit: been working on documentation all day, emoticon responses are all I can do at the moment.

---

Thanks Skinnee :)

Nice youtube also, thanks for posting that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hondacity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq2UV...ayer_embedded#

---

Yeah I'm a little sceptical about their claims in that video, and frankly I'm not expecting what they're trying to suggest.
But an improvement over the H50 would be nice... :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hondacity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq2UV...ayer_embedded#

---

229.95 for a

ApogeeGT
MCR120
DDC-3.1 from the looks of it
4 feet of tubing?

uhh.... they shopping from aqua tunning with the rights to the names?

No comment... pit it against a swiftech compact, and watch it get owned...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

Yeah I'm a little sceptical about their claims in that video, and frankly I'm not expecting what they're trying to suggest.
But an improvement over the H50 would be nice... :D

---

yeah the domino had pump issues..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

229.95 for a

ApogeeGT
MCR120
DDC-3.1 from the looks of it
4 feet of tubing?

uhh.... they shopping from aqua tunning with the rights to the names?

No comment... pit it against a swiftech compact, and watch it get owned...

---

pawned with money @ stock?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hondacity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq2UV...ayer_embedded#

---

WOW! :shakes: Thanks for linking that vid Honda, just goes to show how dishonest some vendors will go to wow the uninformed.

1/2" tubing?. . .really?, maybe O.D. but, the last time I looked, DDC's had 3/8 native barbs.

Fan, same as used on the ECO. . .mounted on a BI GTS. 30 FPI compared to what looks to be 14-18 FPI for the ECO rad.

. . .and of course the most egregious mistake that's already been pointed out, a Swiftech Apogee GT is the "latest". . .???, really?. . .I'll bet that pitch is really pulling in the dullard moths. :rolleyes:

I'd really have to question everything coming out of that guys mouth. :bs: :stick: He's just lucky I wasn't at CES, I'd would have failed at restraining myself from ripping him a new one in front of everybody. :yepp:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hondacity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq2UV...ayer_embedded#

---

!?!

Okay, horribly sick or not, now I'm annoyed that I didn't drag myself out to their booth. Their pricing is misleading, their description of the setup is misleading, no details were given in that video about the heating elements/die sim they were employing (i.e. it would be a piece of cake to whip up a die sim configuration which could put a flat Apogee or Apogee GT at a substantial disadvantage), and, depending on which way they have the fans going, ambient heat sources on either side of that display could skew things substantially.

...it's so easy to manipulate a "test" to get whatever result you want :rolleyes:

Kinda makes me want to play with one.

that video was actually for you...LOL

As silly as their claims are, my interest in how it compares to the H50 remains.
For my intended use (as explained), if it's a marked improvement, then it'd be close to ideal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hondacity

yeah the domino had pump issues..

---

Yeah & the odd/minor exploding issue :rofl:

That's the main thing that worries me about going the Eco route actually, even if it is markedly better.
By all accounts (mostly hearsay admittedly) their customer support mechanisms are horrid...

With Corsair, if you can demonstrate that leakage damaged your gear, then they'll reimburse you that amt.
CoolIT I believe will only do an RMA, they won't help you out with any gear that's been damaged.

Don't get what the flamewar about closed low-end LC systems is about. :confused:
It's not meant as a competitor to DIY LC systems, but for high-end air.

Quote:

---

It's not meant as a competitor to DIY LC systems, but for high-end air.

---

Yeah that's precisely where the battles are fought, and neither has won conclusively.
It really depends on ones needs/set-up/budget...

For most ATX cases/mobo's it can be well argued that top-end air is still better value than closed low-end LC systems.
But it starts to shift strongly in favour of the latter when you move towards mATX cases/mobo's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

Yeah that's precisely where the battles are fought, and neither has won conclusively.
It really depends on ones needs/set-up/budget...

For most ATX cases/mobo's it can be well argued that top-end air is still better value than closed low-end LC systems.
But it starts to shift strongly in favour of the latter when you move towards mATX cases/mobo's.

---

This is just why I was interested in these kits, for the mATX builds that I do all the time. I have looked at the Water Cooling kits also but wanted to compare.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=241925

honestly, it'd be better to go with high end air cooling in my opinion.. you dont have to worry about a pump failing and if you're dealing with that lowend of water you probably wont bother checking things like a pump... that'd be a bad way to loose a chip. air cooling is just easier at that level and less crap to deal with.

im pretty sure 99% of the people on xtreme systems arent going to fall into the category of your avg consumer... and in my opinion these prebuilt watercooling kits with a small rad are all for ill-informed consumers who fail to do research... as for saving money on a HTPC build... most people who have a HTPC honestly dont need to worry about the 100 bucks difference between "real" watercooling and a kit like the H50 as that usually means they've got atleast one desktop thats usually pretty badass... the HTPC just needs to be fast enough to decode blurays and stream videos.

If pump dies, CPU overheats, and PC is auto shut-down, no biggy.
Besides, I'd be likely to replace the system long before pump failure.

I do have some decent air coolers I can switch to should I want to.
I would like to try a LCLC 1st though, for prior stated reasons...

Thanks for your thoughts though.

Does anyone know for sure that the 3590 is exactly the same as Asetek's LCLC 240mm?
I'm trying to decide which of those two I prefer (still not 100% decided on 240mm systems)
So long as there's definitely no significant differences, then it'll come down to availability/cost.

Thank-you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeeMaan

Don't get what the flamewar about closed low-end LC systems is about. :confused:
It's not meant as a competitor to DIY LC systems, but for high-end air.

---

Umm, if you watched the video Hondacity linked to, they themselves were directly comparing their system to a supposed "latest equipment" DIY water cooling @ CES. Another example of CoolIT talking out both ends at the same time. :shakes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

Does anyone know for sure that the 3590 is exactly the same as Asetek's LCLC 240mm?
I'm trying to decide which of those two I prefer (still not 100% decided on 240mm systems)
So long as there's definitely no significant differences, then it'll come down to availability/cost.

Thank-you.

---

Yes, both are Asetek systems. Click on the JonnyGuru review link in your first link. If you go through the pics carefully, you'll see one of the pump/block unit that has the Asetek logo on the top of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Umm, if you watched the video Hondacity linked to, they themselves were directly comparing their system to a supposed "latest equipment" DIY water cooling @ CES. Another example of CoolIT talking out both ends at the same time. :shakes:.

---

Yeah I know, I saw it. Big fail from them, but that was just marketing bs anyway.
But besides from that there is no reason to hate LCLC. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeeMaan

Yeah I know, I saw it. Big fail from them, but that was just marketing bs anyway.
But besides from that there is no reason to hate LCLC. :)

---

Hate to break it to ya but, ppl buy these kit because of the marketing BS. ;)

As for hating them, are they are a "liquid cooling system"?. . .sadly yes. Most of the ppl that buy the marketing BS believe they are getting a "true water cooling system"...False, everyone here knows that, but the poor sap that's been milked was sadly very un or worse yet misinformed/misled. So they get mad when they find out that someone on air is getting as good/better temps than them and they go around and bad mouth water cooling saying it's a rip off or worse yet, that cheap kit they got blows up or breaks on them and damages their brand new $3500-5000 rig. In that case they are down right furious and then the whole hobby has another Erin Brockovich to deal with. :rolleyes:


Do it right or don't do it at all, it's safer for everybody that way. ;)

I'm not one of those as-you-say "poor saps" that's expecting something that'll "kill" air.
And anyone browsing this thread won't get that impression either.

So can we all stay on-topic now please? ;)
I'm starting to appreciate what NaeKuh was talking about now :D

I'm changing the subject to:
120-240mm AIO/sealed, low cost, WC systems
(let me know if you think the name's no good)

Because aside from Eco/H50 comparative data/reviews...
I am also interested in hearing about experiences w/similar systems that have 240mm rads.

This hasn't been widely publicised in the media....
But apparently CoolIT are releasing an Eco with a 240mm rad at the same time as the 120mm Eco.
It'll use the same head unit, but have slightly different radiator/hosing.

Conclusive data on the Eco and it's 240mm brethren is too far off for me.
So in the meantime I'm interested in hearing from those who can help me with post #32.

That is; deciding between the LCLC 240mm and the NQ-3890...*
Still checking local availability for both, if neither are in Oz then the choice will be easy.

Thanks all.
*I've emailed both co's, so I may get answers soon hopefully.

I do not have any real data for temps or comparison, but I do have a 240mm Asetek LCLC system installed in my HTPC housed in an Antec Fusion Media case and it all looks pretty good. Here is a picture if it helps:

http://tinypic.com/m/5bxwcm/3

It is not anything fancy or elaborate, but better than any coolers I could fit in the case due to its short height. It DOES beat a Scythe Ninja Mini for what that is worth haha

And I ordered the Asetek kit off NCIX, here is the link:
http://www.ncixus.com/products/35702...012200/Asetek/

Any watercooling rig bought without at last a few weeks of informed, smart research isn't worth it. Some people have the ability to use google, some don't. That gets rid of 60-90% of the folks. Then the remainining 10% might spend a week or two learning, then buy and fail at a 50% rate.

Leaving us with with few folks wanting or able or budget crippled. I like it. Only the best get it right. New folks with a job that can afford the best. Meaning sucessful people, movers in the real world. Ones who 'got a clue'.

Doing it right is great. Knowing how to do it depends on your education level, you genes from your parents, and your ability to buy something that is totally not required.

WC properly is for the class rich. Knowlege, money, ability. Yes, I have a big house, and a nice car. I have a clue.

In the OP posts, low cost in the title. Umm. Sorry, low cost? Low? $1500 or $2000? More?

I think you must've misread some of my earlier posts....

I played w/full-blown custom loops for a few years & I'm well aware that LCLC systems are not a replacement.
As I have repeatedly said, that is not the focus in this thread...

If you're trying to say you're smarter/richer than others because you use customs loops.
Well I'm not sure how you make that leap, let alone why you'd so quickly jump to personal affronts.

You don't have to partake in the topic if it doesn't interest you, simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scook9

I do not have any real data for temps or comparison, but I do have a 240mm Asetek LCLC system installed in my HTPC housed in an Antec Fusion Media case and it all looks pretty good. Here is a picture if it helps:

http://tinypic.com/m/5bxwcm/3

It is not anything fancy or elaborate, but better than any coolers I could fit in the case due to its short height. It DOES beat a Scythe Ninja Mini for what that is worth haha

And I ordered the Asetek kit off NCIX, here is the link:
http://www.ncixus.com/products/35702...012200/Asetek/

---

Thanks for sharing your experiences!
So even a 240mm looks totally doable on a desktop form-factor case.

I love the fact that there's so much room internally!
That's almost exactly what I had envisaged for my set-up.

Although of course my case will be different...
And I may have both push & pull fans in concert w/shrouds
And I may attempt to keep the push fans internal...

I've emailed both vendors to confirm if they're the same.
I believe they are judging by photos, but I prefer to be sure.

It may turn out they're not availably locally anyway!
In which case I'll just get the H50...

But I still intend to follow progress of the Eco and Eco 240.
As they will be available locally within the next mth.

jaylst, I've got to give you credit for hanging in there and beating away the haters. Its also nice that you see the H50 and ECO for what they are and not products they were never intended to be. :up:

Oh yeah, this is a good thread! So much good stuff here, where can I start?

First of all jalyst wants info on what he calls "120-240mm AIO/sealed, low cost, WC systems". And he comes to XtremeSystems to get answers. That is like going to a Porsche owner's club, and asking the members' opinions on the newest Volkswagen. I doubt you will hear too many kind words for the Volkswagen.

Now let's move on to Hondacity's video. :eek: OMG, what a joke. That video should have a warning label: "WARNING: this video contains 100% fraudulence. View at your own risk: viewing may induce nausea, cramping, anger, rage and/ or hysterical laughter." But seriously the guy in the video is not being truthful about the age of the cpu block and the diameter of the tubing, so how can we believe his test results are honest? We can't. He is what the French would call "faux". Here in New York, we call it "lying". I don't know what they call it where you come from, but it is not nice. :down:

Next, wait a minute, NaeKuh is an elitist? Since when? What? Wait. rly? No, I don't believe it. :ROTF:

Next, Waterlogged was outraged and wanted to flame somebody? rly? No, I can't believe that either. :ROTF:

Finally let me try to answer jaylst's question, which was something about wanting to hear "about experiences with 120-240mm AIO/sealed, low cost, WC systems systems." Well I don't have any personal experience with those systems, to be honest. The only one that looks interesting to me is the one with the built-in peltier cooler, which is called the Coolit Freezone Elite, I think. I would tell you to look into that one, but again the best info I can give you is that a guy I know had one, and he claimed he got a great overclock on an AMD chip that is hard to overclock with it, but I did not witness this firsthand, so I guess this is really hearsay, and is not what you are looking for. Otherwise I can assure you that a 240mm radiator is ALWAYS better than a 120mm rad regardless of the system. :up: I hope this helps, but if not, well what can I say, I'm a member of this club, and I don't care much for Volkswagens. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skinnee

jaylst, I've got to give you credit for hanging in there and beating away the haters. Its also nice that you see the H50 and ECO for what they are and not products they were never intended to be. :up:

---

Thanks skinnee, I don't think there's been any haters, just people that have misunderstood the intent of this thread.
Hopefully we can just remain on topic...

I've had someone claim that they read somewhere that the NQ-3890 is only 5% better than the H50.
"5% better" is very vague so I'm taking it with a grain of salt, but taking it on face-value %5 is less of difference than I'd have expected.

Needless to say I'm currently doing some research to see whether there's any basis to this, and if so what it really means.
If it's true then the same will apply to the Asetek LCLC 240mm, because as far as I can tell, it's exactly the same device.*

*in the midst of getting 100% confirmation on this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eth0s

Finally let me try to answer jaylst's question, which was something about wanting to hear "about experiences with 120-240mm AIO/sealed, low cost, WC systems systems." Well I don't have any personal experience with those systems, to be honest. The only one that looks interesting to me is the one with the built-in peltier cooler, which is called the Coolit Freezone Elite, I think. I would tell you to look into that one, but again the best info I can give you is that a guy I know had one, and he claimed he got a great overclock on an AMD chip that is hard to overclock with it, but I did not witness this firsthand, so I guess this is really hearsay, and is not what you are looking for. Otherwise I can assure you that a 240mm radiator is ALWAYS better than a 120mm rad regardless of the system. :up: I hope this helps, but if not, well what can I say, I'm a member of this club, and I don't care much for Volkswagens. ;)

---

No worries, you can be a member of whatever club you want to. ;)
Yes I'm aware of the Freezone, alas it's a different class of cooler & doesn't fit my needs, but thanks for trying to be constructive.
Thanks again for offering your thoughts!

I did a lot of research on hte CoolIT kits last year and ended up with the conclusion that they are decent, but get overwhelmed easily enough. The FreeZone Elite has 6 peliter pieces on a relatively small radiator and the review said they were decent for a mild overclock but got overwhelmed at higher temps.

The H50 IS an Asetek kit but it has a better waterblock than the stock Asetek kits, otherwise - same thing

I gave the ECO a run out today, wasn't too great unfortunately.

Thanks Clunk,

I'll wait for some more reviews before passing total judgement, but it doesn't look good.
Have you benched any of the 240mm LCLC systems or the H50?

I haven't used the Corsair or 240 LCLC, sorry. May do in future though :)

I should also point out that the sample may just be a bad one, but we had exactly the same thing with the Domino, 3 bad units in a row, so they do seem to have some quality control issues in that respect.

That would be great, there's three that I'm aware of: NQ-3590, Asetek LCLC 240mm, & Eco 240mm.
Did you notice any physical flaws which would not usually be the norm, & may have impeded it's effectiveness?

Difficult to say if it was the norm, I suspect that CoolIT will say that it isn't, but it will be interesting to see what other reviewers make of their sample.

I hope it was just a flawed unit but if it was, it does make one worry about their quality control.

@clunk

thanks for your participation...did you measure(perhaps an infrared temp meter) the radiator body temp? measuring such would indicate water/fluid temp.... based on some radiator testing.and i860 heat output ...i'm guessing the water temps are as high as 10-20c above room temperatures...such high water temps could cause the the failure of your oc tests...i mean instead of a cold plate..you have a warm plate and the cpu would just heat up eventually...

Edit, don't want to start anything

now more on topic. I own a H50 and I may have a defective unit, but I am not happy with my results. I have a 920@4ghz 1.264v that @100%load usually runs in the low 70c on a TRUE. with the H50 my temps are in the high 80's, sometime it will even hit 90. I have remounted many times and used different tim's. However many have had great success with the H50.
I do not know how it will compare to the other unit your interested in though.

I hope that you find your answers soon though. good luck to you and it would be nice for some members to try to actually help you rather than beat around the bush or say BS like some have said.

Also sorry for my little rant at the beginning, it was in your defense though:ROTF:

No worries, interested in hearing others experiences with these sort of coolers, so your input is useful.
Let all try to lay-off the arguments over off-topic things, and personal attacks though.

Thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hondacity

@clunk

thanks for your participation...did you measure(perhaps an infrared temp meter) the radiator body temp? measuring such would indicate water/fluid temp.... based on some radiator testing.and i860 heat output ...i'm guessing the water temps are as high as 10-20c above room temperatures...such high water temps could cause the the failure of your oc tests...i mean instead of a cold plate..you have a warm plate and the cpu would just heat up eventually...

---

No, I didn't measure the radiator temp, I will do that for you today and report back, but to be honest, once it failed the overclocking tests, I didn't see much point in running any more. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by INFRNL

now more on topic. I own a H50 and I may have a defective unit, but I am not happy with my results. I have a 920@4ghz 1.264v that @100%load usually runs in the low 70c on a TRUE. with the H50 my temps are in the high 80's, sometime it will even hit 90. I have remounted many times and used different tim's. However many have had great success with the H50.
I do not know how it will compare to the other unit your interested in though.

---

Are you using same fans on both?

I tried just the stock corsair fan at full speed, then replaced with 2 highspeed yate loons. granted if I run both the yates at leafblower speeds it drops down closer to 80, but I want it to be quiet. when I ran the megahalem and 1 sanace at 1800rpm, it was pretty quiet and cool, so I was hoping for similar results.

I may have a defective unit for all I know, others have gotten better results.

I know this seems like mixed results: I have run this cpu off a true and megahalem as well, megahalem giving the best results.

Sounds like you may have been a little unlucky with its build quality.
Or perhaps you need to have another run at installing it.

I have seen others post that their H50 surpassed their megahalem.
This whilst noise levels were not notably higher than their megahalem.

Granted, megahalem is no longer the air cooling king.
I can't recall where I read this now, I'll try to find it....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

@clunk
What happened to your Eco review, I just went back to review it and I'm getting a 404?
Thanks.

---

I'm just updating the site, it'll be back at around 7~8pm GMT.

It's back up mate, sorry about that :)

@Hondacity,

I did a run of prime95 yesterday for you, but even after reseating the block several times, I was unable to stop the thermal cut off kicking in, so the highest temp that I could detect on the outside of the radiator was 35c. In my opinion, it's the base that's the main problem with this particular unit, but I've also noticed that the pump ticks for a while after turning it on, so maybe there's air in there too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clunk

It's back up mate, sorry about that :)

@Hondacity,

I did a run of prime95 yesterday for you, but even after reseating the block several times, I was unable to stop the thermal cut off kicking in, so the highest temp that I could detect on the outside of the radiator was 35c. In my opinion, it's the base that's the main problem with this particular unit, but I've also noticed that the pump ticks for a while after turning it on, so maybe there's air in there too.

---

35C on the rad....thats not too bad...how long did you run prime95? i'm guess that unit's pump gets warm too...instead of taking away the heat...the heat accumulates in the loop(airflow thru the rad isn't so good)...or the base of that unit ain't mounted right...i'm guess the exhaust air temperature is quite warm too :D

could you run stock voltage...and run prime95 for maybe 30minutes to 1hr....and measure radiator temperature? maybe at even stock voltage that cooling kit under performs....

the aircoolers that you have indicate that your cpu isn't high leakage..so this coolit kit should have numbers close to those air coolers...

the corsair h50 sorta works with alot of users...i wonder why this unit suck so much...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

Sounds like you may have been a little unlucky with its build quality.
Or perhaps you need to have another run at installing it.

I have seen others post that their H50 surpassed their megahalem.
This whilst noise levels were not notably higher than their megahalem.

Granted, megahalem is no longer the air cooling king.
I can't recall where I read this now, I'll try to find it....

---

I think its Noctua that has the greatest cooling, but its also double the size, or at least looks like it.

I have tried a reseat over and over, but I am willing one more time. I am also thinking about getting another one just to see if I see better results. If I do not see any results, I will sell them off or try it on the one cpu that runs in the low 60's with Megahalem and single low speed fan.

Has the OP found any useable answers yet? Seems like this thread is a rollercoaster and I am not helping; sorry OP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by INFRNL

Has the OP found any useable answers yet? Seems like this thread is a rollercoaster and I am not helping; sorry OP

---

Not really, I'm trying to ascertain which of the two 240mm solutions are best, neither OEM has responded to my email queries.
It may turn out they're the same, or they could be entirely different.

At the same time some are saying that the H50 performs better than the LCLC 240mm because it has a batter block/pump.
And others say that they've read that the NQ-3590 only cools 5% better than the H50...

I haven't found evidence to corroborate any of these claims, sooo irritating....

Looking at the pictures of the NQ-3590, I can say with absolute certainty that it is the Asetek LCLC 240mm unit (same one I lined at NCIX a few posts back)

If you need a "benchmark" of its performance, just search for cooling numbers on the HP Blackbird 002 or any of the Cyberpower, Alienware, or any other boutique "liquid cooled" desktops. They pretty much all use this same 240mm unit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

I've looked at pictures for both but can't say with certainty, therein lies the prob...
Hence waiting on hearing from OEM, or hoping to find real/comparable performance data for both, & H50.

---

Then maybe this will confirm they are the same. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

Does anyone know for sure that the 3590 is exactly the same as Asetek's LCLC 240mm?
I'm trying to decide which of those two I prefer (still not 100% decided on 240mm systems)
So long as there's definitely no significant differences, then it'll come down to availability/cost.

Thank-you.

---

Yes, both are Asetek systems. Click on the JonnyGuru review link in your first link. If you go through the pics carefully, you'll see one of the pump/block unit that has the Asetek logo on the top of it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

i never saw this response of yours, which thread was it in?
I got this cryptic response from you the other day in this thread.
But I wasn't sure what your were talking about...

---

This very thread, page 2. Clicking on the little arrow next to my name in the quote will take you right to the post.

Ah, now I see what you were talking about in that other thread.
I've now seen post #32 of yours in this thread...

What do you mean by: "Click on the JonnyGuru review link in your first link"
I assume you meant "..review link in your first post"?
Unfortunately I removed my OP and wrote a clearer one yonks ago.

**update**

After some 'Googling' I've found the article you're talking about:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...print&reid=119

I see what you mean but just because it still has the Asetek symbol doesn't mean it's exactly the same.
And that review was from some time ago, both parties could have made minor alterations since then.

And if my memory serves me correctly, the block looks a tad different from shots I've seen of the LCLC 240's.
I'll try to find more recent reviews/piccies of both & use that as a basis for determining the differences, if any.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hondacity

35C on the rad....thats not too bad...how long did you run prime95? i'm guess that unit's pump gets warm too...instead of taking away the heat...the heat accumulates in the loop(airflow thru the rad isn't so good)...or the base of that unit ain't mounted right...i'm guess the exhaust air temperature is quite warm too :D

could you run stock voltage...and run prime95 for maybe 30minutes to 1hr....and measure radiator temperature? maybe at even stock voltage that cooling kit under performs....

the aircoolers that you have indicate that your cpu isn't high leakage..so this coolit kit should have numbers close to those air coolers...

the corsair h50 sorta works with alot of users...i wonder why this unit suck so much...

---

Yes, this is what I was saying, the base is uneven, lumpy one way and also concave the other, so I do agree that that is a large part of the problem. I did a 2 hour run for you with Prime95 on the overclocked settings.

I can run the air cooler tests and get them usually within 1c of the initial tests, so I'm happy that they are accurate for my set up, I fitted and refitted the ECO several times and it's just not playing nice at all.

They are sending over a replacement, so once I have that, I'll re-run the tests and hopefully they will bring some more meaningful results. I'll do the radiator temp measurements, but first, I need to finish dissecting this ECO :D

Sweet!

Please let us know how things go, hopefully there's much better no's with the new unit.
Still, they shouldn't have to "cherry pick" another to send to you in the 1st place!

Clunk did they ever send you a new one, are you still planning to compare with a H50?

Cheers!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

Clunk did they ever send you a new one, are you still planning to compare with a H50?

Cheers!

---

No plans to retest now, not after them trying to shift the blame onto us for the Eco fail over at VR-Zone.

I was speaking to someone today from a reputable source that bought an Eco from a UK retailer this week and it has many of the problems that our sample had, including failing the 4GHz/1.41v test, and also the razor sharp screws, so on that basis alone, I won't be revisiting the Eco at any time soon, the risk of damage to the board each time it is fitted is too great.

I'm surprised none of the big sites have done a comparison yet though?

Yeah that rep. of theirs (Barry?) is not doing them any favours with some of his silly remarks in that thread.

Got fairly solid results here, nothing spectacular of course though...
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...reviews-8.html

The most recent one I've seen was by tweaktown, but I still want to see a head2head with the H50.
RawZ in the thread above was going to do one for OCtech, but he's having trouble convincing Corsair to give him a H50.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

Not really, I'm trying to ascertain which of the two 240mm solutions are best, neither OEM has responded to my email queries.
It may turn out they're the same, or they could be entirely different.

At the same time some are saying that the H50 performs better than the LCLC 240mm because it has a batter block/pump.
And others say that they've read that the NQ-3590 only cools 5% better than the H50...

I haven't found evidence to corroborate any of these claims, sooo irritating....

---

In relation to this; I was eventually advised by NQ themselves that there's is just the latest revision LCLC 240.
But that they -naturally- can sometimes be a revision or two behind. The revisions are normally only very subtle changes.
The NQ also seems to have less availability worldwide and is generally a tad more $.

So assuming LCLC 240 is readily available for Australians; it's a toss-up between it and the H50/Eco for me.
But these three aren't my focus at the moment, so many other things I'm working on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JokerCPoC

I'd still like to see a Corsair H70 vs CoolIt ECO-240 shootout.

---

Same here...
But I'm even more interested in Eco C240 Vs NQ-3590 Vs 550/570LC

I guess it's pointless worrying how the 550 & 570LC compare...
As one can only get them as part of complete builds from iBuyPower etc?

The LCLC 240mm was purchasable on it's own, but this was very uncommon.
And you'd probably get zilch support from Asetek...

NQ's range has always been re-badged Asetek's....
They've previously explained that they're usually a revision or two behind.
I wonder if their NQ-3590's have migrated to the 570LC yet?

Has anyone seen any comparisons between these 3 or the H70?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

No worries, interested in hearing others experiences with these sort of coolers, so your input is useful.
Let all try to lay-off the arguments over off-topic things, and personal attacks though.

Thanks again.

---

I've installed a 'kit' for someone else (one that you've mentioned). I tried my best to talk him into a mcp350, mcr220, a T, and a block. He would've gotten better results. His argument was that it was more expensive, and it was.

The prebuilt felt cheap, looked cheap, and the results were less than I have grown to expect from water. Of course, only my opinion.

On another note, for awhile I had an apogee drive in an htpc. I think I bought the kit <$100. After swapping the fan, it was silent. There are many reasons to watercool.

Just a few comments to the OP:
I've been reading this section for almost 5 years now.
Watched water cooling parts evolve, the guys test them and honestly it's gotten to the point that if you want to do a good water cooling system it's almost mindless on what parts to choose.
Sure, there are small differences in water blocks, then performance in rads based upon pure performance or which works better with what fans but when you digest it all it's really simple and what these guys build so smokes any "prebuilt" that it's not even funny.
Sure it costs more than the prebuilts but you get what you pay for in this life and generally the systems used here last much longer than the prebuilts.
I think this is what Naekuh was trying to allude to but worded it incompletely.
Plan $300.00 fora good water cooling system and your right in the ballpark of a system that should last close to 5 years or more.
Good Luck.

^^^ Just what he said , you pay cheap and you get cheap and thats reality regardless. If you want low budget invest into good AIR setup. You can find GOOD used parts here in the forums that will perform better then these pre-built kits if you need to save money. Im moving onto my 3rd watercooled build and it hasnt even been 1 year lol and i have learned so much from people on the forums.. PLEASEE listen to the comments even tho they may seem harsh , i learned the hard way at start but now im the man!! LOL

I agree with the people recommending a custom loop in favor of a prebuilt. I originally got into water by purchasing an H50 for my desktop. As soon as I realized the other places I could put radiators in my case I returned the H50 and built my loop. Granted it ended up costing about $600 when I had originally planned on $250 to $300, but I have not felt bad about it one bit because I know I am going to get incredible mileage out of this loop and that it cools my system MUCH better.

All that being said though, I still have an Asetek 240mm LCLC in my HTPC and it works there just fine. I knew it would not work as well as a custom loop and never expected it too, it was purely a space consideration there as I could not fit a big air cooler. I also just saw the H70 for the first time and must say, it is indeed impressive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aedubber

You can find GOOD used parts here in the forums that will perform better then these pre-built kits if you need to save money. Im moving onto my 3rd watercooled build and it hasnt even been 1 year lol and i have learned so much from people on the forums.. PLEASEE listen to the comments even tho they may seem harsh , i learned the hard way at start but now im the man!! LOL

---

For the GOOD cheap part, just watch for when Aedubber rebuilds... I missed a hell of a buy on two pumps the other day...

*cough*upgrade*cough*again*cough*please*cough*

Thanks guys for your thoughts, it is appreciated. As mentioned earlier in this thread...
I'm well aware of the advantages of custom loops and have in-fact experimented with them a lot in the past (admittedly that period was at least 5yr ago now)
However I'm not looking for optimal water cooling, but equal to or better than top-end air at similar pricing, & with less intrusion into the internal workspace.
Remember this if for a HTPC build....
For anyone who's actually used more than one of these newer AIO/sealed set-ups, I'd love to hear which you prefer!
Thanks again!

Lol thanks meanmoe ;)

Similar pricing to air? Forget about it. Except few lucky deals with getting good&cheap used LC parts set that would be just exception to rule, LC at that price range will perform same or worse then air. See Corsair H50/H70 for example - at similar pricing (or even little bit higher then top air coolers) you get cooler that cools a bit less then those top air coolers. Imho it makes sense to start LCing at price of 250$ for cpu-only loop. Only then you get those better and quieter cooling .. below - only those exceptionary good deals on used part set or same (or worse) performance then air with liquid cooling being only in name not in shown performance.

From reviews/data I've seen....
A H70 with the right fan/shroud combo is just as good or even slightly better than the best air coolers with the same fan/shroud set-up.
Only just (and it fluctuates depending on cpu/vcore/oc), but it's usually constant if one's not an OCr or running at heavy load all the time.
And that's just the H70, which I'm less interested in...

I've had the same experience with the H50 and overclocked i7-920, thermal cutout kicked, the cpu hit 100°C and the radiator wasn't even getting hot. I suspect a manufacturing fault or incompatability with the mobo (vanilla P6T) and yes I tried reseating it about 5 times, with new paste, two fans, different power connectors, you name it. It was fine at stock speeds.

Slapped some old w/c parts I had lying around (10/8mm compressions/tubing/RS240/etc), bought a new pump and whammo, 4.0 Ghz at expected temps running f@h 24/7 with no problems at all.

Now I have a H50 boxed and not sure if Corsair will RMA yet

Any experience with the 240mm sealed/AIO's I mentioned? Thank-you.

One should forget about H50/H70 as means to get better cooling then top air coolers like Noctua DH14/Cogage Silver Arrow. That doesn't mean it's worthless product - for example it has it's use in smaller&cramped cases where placing full size top air cooler is out of question. Also it's rad can be placed somewhere else where it can be cooled with cooler outside case. But let me repeat - don't expect miracle cooling from such systems just because those are LC. Their rad simply is too small to give substantially better cooling/quieter fans for same cooling as those top air coolers. Cooling would be better if there was bigger rad (like in those self assembled LC builds from components), but you'd loose ease of mounting / small size alongside, loosing it's mounting flexibility .. and then you'd be better off assembling yourself LC build from top components since the beginning anyway.

I don't understand here , there are people that have had these setups you are interested in saying not to get it but yet you still keep wondering ???!! Honestly now your just being stubborn , just go by the cheap set and then go do your own review . If users are telling you to stay away and your not listening then I dunno what else can help you . This thread will become worthless soon as most people have built their own loops etc .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hondacity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq2UV...ayer_embedded#

---

Errr.. I'm sure even the original Apogee can beat the Eco hands down! Running one now cooling an Athlon X4 very nicely.

Phil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aedubber

I don't understand here , there are people that have had these setups you are interested in saying not to get it but yet you still keep wondering ???!! Honestly now your just being stubborn , just go by the cheap set and then go do your own review . If users are telling you to stay away and your not listening then I dunno what else can help you . This thread will become worthless soon as most people have built their own loops etc .

---

Hi, thanks for adding your thoughts again.
Who are these people you speak of that have used the Eco C240 or Asetek 550/570LC?
I'd like to get some perspective on how it's played out for their intended use.

As explained I'm not looking for a set-up that will enable hard-core OC's or extra cool temps on high loads.
So long as it compares fairly well to the best air, I'm happy :)

Thanks again!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by churchy

One should forget about H50/H70 as means to get better cooling then top air coolers like Noctua DH14/Cogage Silver Arrow. That doesn't mean it's worthless product - for example it has it's use in smaller&cramped cases where placing full size top air cooler is out of question. Also it's rad can be placed somewhere else where it can be cooled with cooler outside case. But let me repeat - don't expect miracle cooling from such systems just because those are LC. Their rad simply is too small to give substantially better cooling/quieter fans for same cooling as those top air coolers. Cooling would be better if there was bigger rad (like in those self assembled LC builds from components), but you'd loose ease of mounting / small size alongside, loosing it's mounting flexibility .. and then you'd be better off assembling yourself LC build from top components since the beginning anyway.

---

Oh yeah,
I totally realise they're not comparable to custom loops for a range of factors, not just limited to rad.
The reasons you mention are predominantly why I'm interested in them.

Thanks!

So what exactly are you trying to find out here?

H50 vs. Eco?

Or 120mm vs 240mm pre assembled kit?

More importantly, what chip are you trying to cool in your HTPC?

Phil

Well if your not trying to cool better then AIR, why dont you just stay with air? You can find some good fans that run very silently and push a good amount of air and use some really good thermal paste for your parts as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philwong

So what exactly are you trying to find out here?

H50 vs. Eco?

Or 120mm vs 240mm pre assembled kit?

More importantly, what chip are you trying to cool in your HTPC?

Phil

---

Thanks Phil, best line of questioning yet, my original question...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...6&postcount=73
We're only talking about a Core i3-530, although I may eventually upgrade to an i5.
There will be the occasional serious OC, but for the most part I will be @stock or underclocked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aedubber

Well if your not trying to cool better then AIR, why dont you just stay with air? You can find some good fans that run very silently and push a good amount of air and use some really good thermal paste for your parts as well.

---

I have space constraints, I intend to mod my case and mount the rad externally or at least partially.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

There will be the occasional serious OC, but for the most part I will be @stock or underclocked.

---

It doesn't matter if you push your system to its limit just once because these pre assembled kits will fail miserably. That's the bottom line everyone is trying to convince you.

I personally tried Thermaltake's Big Water (time to take cover from Waterlogged) and it is "honestly decent" in my humble opinion. But then, my priority back then was a relatively quiet system more than sheer cooling power.

You need to get your requirements right and if you're just looking for a WC solution to match high-end air cooling, a H50 should serve you pretty well.

Phil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philwong

It doesn't matter if you push your system to its limit just once because these pre assembled kits will fail miserably. That's the bottom line everyone is trying to convince you.

I personally tried Thermaltake's Big Water (time to take cover from Waterlogged) and it is "honestly decent" in my humble opinion. But then, my priority back then was a relatively quiet system more than sheer cooling power.

You need to get your requirements right and if you're just looking for a WC solution to match high-end air cooling, a H50 should serve you pretty well.

Phil

---

Thanks Phil, my main priority is stock or UC...
Any idea how the other systems I've mentioned compare to the H50?*
Any solid basis for comparison you can reference?

Thanks again!

*From what I've read the H70 is a fairly minuscule improvement over the h50...
But it improves areas not directly related to performance + brings a few probs of it's own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jalyst

Thanks Phil, my main priority is stock or UC...
Any idea how the other systems I've mentioned compare to the H50?
(from what I've read the h70 is fairly negligible improvement over the h50, but improves other areas not directly related to performance)
Any solid basis for comparison you can reference?

Thanks again!

---

You seriously don't need anything more than a H50 or Eco to cool an i3 at stock speed and voltage. Likewise for a stock i5.

Someone even managed to cool a 4GHz i7 with a H50, albeit at 91c. :eek:

http://forums.vr-zone.com/project-lo...ml#post7989105

Phil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philwong

You seriously don't need anything more than a H50 or Eco to cool an i3 at stock speed and voltage. Likewise for a stock i5.l

---

I know that, but I'm interested in what improvement I could get with the other AIO's...
That headroom may come in handy for the times I wish to dabble with a little light OC'ing.
I gather you don't know much about them?

Quote:

---

Someone even managed to cool a 4GHz i7 with a H50, albeit at 91c. :eek:

http://forums.vr-zone.com/project-lo...ml#post7989105

---

Yikes! :D

First u say stock or underclocked then serious then a little OC? Lol make up you mind already, if you wanna see this and that just buy the unit rather then asking people over and over the same thing. Either u watercool the right way or you don't .. :/

I could see using an h70 for stock/UC and silent. Other than that though, and your on your own...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meanmoe

I could see using an h70 for stock/UC and silent. Other than that though, and your on your own...

---

Okay so no idea how the other three items compare...
Fair enough, I'll endeavour to find out elsewhere, thanks!