The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gomeler

Just as the title says, this is the Fermi thread. You find something you want to share about Fermi, stuff it in here. We don't need a new thread every day til the fictitious launch day.

Play nice or you'll get the hammer.

---

+1

Link to previous 82-page thread.

Remember:
- We can/do track who writes tags and don't appreciate seeing them played with. Good Tags == Traffic folks!
- Let's keep things on topic. Or, as there is next to no info available, as not off-topic as possible. When a mod or admin gets grumpy and wants to give infractions or play with the banhammer this will be a popular place to visit as the last thread was like shooting fish in a barrel.

If anyone has links to nVidia they feel are credible / official news feel free to send me a PM and I'll review and toss it up.

Nvidias white paper on the arch: http://www.nvidia.com/attach/2957021...rt&primitive=0 [Jan 19, 2010]
More info: http://www.nvidia.com/object/gf100.html

Only benchmark & some videos

Collection of Fermi Benchmarks: courtesy phk, asuka, obr, kakkoii, kravis, heise.de, computerbase, expreview, & pctuning.cz

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2...2410473.th.jpghttp://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2333/4801big.th.jpghttp://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7...580x435.th.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/157...600x546.th.jpghttp://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5730/171q.th.jpghttp://img20.imageshack.us/img20/419...6d0f8b6.th.jpg

PCB lengths:
HD5870 280mm 28.0cm, 11.02 inches (including backplate & enclosure, 267mm without)
GTX480 267mm 26.7cm, 10.51 inches
GTX470 243mm 24.3cm, 9.56 inches

General performance:
gtx285 75%
hd5850 80%
gtx470 90-95%
hd5870 100%
gtx480 110-115%
hd5970 140%

---------GTX470----------------GTX480----------------GTX470------
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...razno/th_2.jpghttp://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...razno/th_1.jpghttp://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...razno/th_3.jpg
---------GTX470----------------GTX480----------------GTX470------
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...razno/th_6.jpghttp://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...razno/th_4.jpghttp://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...razno/th_5.jpg

GTX470 Cooler:
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3...1dhfx57.th.jpghttp://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8462/...2dhfx57.th.jpghttp://img697.imageshack.us/img697/7...3dhfx57.th.jpghttp://img22.imageshack.us/img22/972...4dhfx57.th.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/bh8r9.jpg
http://www.expreview.com/img/news/20...axyfermi/1.jpg
http://pctuning.tyden.cz/images/stories/1(9).jpg
http://pctuning.tyden.cz/images/stories/2(5).jpg
http://pctuning.tyden.cz/images/stories/drivers.png

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GTX 470 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1...debabf411a.jpg

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/images/stories/exx.jpg
http://image.tianjimedia.com/uploadI...SY5FFF3053.jpg

Quote:

---

GTX470 Device ID = NVIDIA_DEV.06C0.01 = "NVIDIA GF100", this part has been in testing since Forceware v185.20 first spotting:
DriverVer = 12/26/2008, 7.15.11.8520 (15 months of testing ~ same timeframe as cypress coming out of TSMC Jan. 09)

---

core @ 625, shader @ 1255 MHz
RAM @ 1600 MHz, 2000 Mhz
800mhz (phk's sample) / 1000mhz (obr's sample and the final clocks) GDDR5 Samsung modules (possibly 5gbps)
All the 470 benches done at 800mhz memory, final is supposed to be 1000mhz
GF100 main advantage is high-res, high-tessellation, minimum fps

GTX470 VS HD5870 in various games @ high-res, high-aa:
GTX 470 625|1255|800 ------ HD 5870 850|850|1200

http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/a46...c14b4d5cbd.jpg

Crysis Warhead:

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6...a662c1b865.jpg
http://home.akku.tv/~akku38901/gtx470benchs.jpg

Tom Clancy's HAWX:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...AWX_25_8aa.jpg

Devil May Cry 4:

????????? Havent seen screens for this game yet

World in Conflict:
2560 x 1600 Ultra 4xAA Max
5870(orange) vs. gtx470(light green)
(Ignore the color of "5870" and "GTX4x0" in the top right, colors were inverted for the overlapping image)

http://i49.tinypic.com/2a99p5j.png
http://i42.tinypic.com/21jnerb.jpg

Farcry2:
2560 x 1600 Ultra 8xAA Max DX10 min/avg/max
5870: 17/32/55
GTX470: 30/40/67

http://i50.tinypic.com/1670490.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/nwxawl.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/j9c4d4.jpg

Stalker Call of Pripryat:
2560 x 1600 Ultra 4xAA Max DX11

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4...4d2bbbc455.jpg
http://bbs.expreview.com/attachments...ae6759eec6.jpg

Dirt 2 w/ DX11:

http://i39.tinypic.com/vdiv50.jpg

3dmark Vantage:

Performance Vantage- P17156 (GTX470)
(compare HD5850/HD5870: 14300/17303) - GTX480 est.: 17156 x 1.2 = P20,500
Extreme Vantage - X7511 (GTX470)
(compare GTX285/HD5850/HD5870: 6002/6430/8730) - GTX480 est.: 7511 x 1.2 = X9013

Quote:

---

GTX470 will have a score of 167xx and 73xx, under Performance preset (1280x1048, 1x AA) and Extreme preset (1900x1200, 4xAA) respectively. Which are 13% and 20% faster than GTX285 and is quite competitive when compared to the results of 5870 under Performance preset. GTX470 will have a wide lead in the benchmarks of the DX10 game, Far Cry 2, with 80fps under the following settings: 1920x1200, 4xAA, 16xAF. However, as there are different benchmarks of Far Cry 2, the data is not ideal for making comparisons with other video cards. GTX470 can achieve a frame rate of around 30fps during the DX11 Uniengine Benchmark under 1920x1200, with 4xAA and 16xAF, which is apparently better than the 5870.

---

http://i47.tinypic.com/or8552.jpg

Unigine Heaven:

1920x1200 16xaf benchmark
4xAA [fps]: 29/22/27 (GTX470/HD5850/HD5870)
8xAA [fps]: 20/19/23 (GTX470/HD5850/HD5870)

http://i46.tinypic.com/2a8ncsz.jpg

http://home.akku.tv/~akku38901/gtx4703dmark.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GTX 480 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://i43.tinypic.com/be6fn.jpghttp://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4...ture315201.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/555...df7febce49.jpg
http://news.mydrivers.com/Img/20100312/03270128.jpg
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/o...-Blended_b.png
http://ic.tweakimg.net/ext/i/imagelarge/1267547764.jpeg
http://ic.tweakimg.net/ext/i/imagelarge/1267547765.jpeg

3dMark 2006:

gtx480
http://i43.tinypic.com/14lsln7.jpg
hd5870
http://i42.tinypic.com/xasbhe.jpg
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video...g/21_3dm06.png

GTX480 vs. HD5970 Unigine Heaven DX11 Benchmark:
1920 x 1080 0xAA 1xAF

Geforce GTX 480 stock / Core i7 960 @ 3.33ghz / Heaven v. 1.1 ---------------------------
http://i42.tinypic.com/5pla2v.jpg
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpdPS...eature=related

Radeon HD 5970 stock / Core i7 920 @ 3.78ghz / Heaven v. 1.0 ---------------------------
http://i44.tinypic.com/2ura4oj.jpg
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvvQAQU7Sjg

Heavy Tessellation:
GTX 480: 43 fps / HD 5970: 29 fps
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6...ture310201.jpghttp://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6...ture310201.jpg
GTX 480: 45 fps / HD 5970: 36 fps
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/657...ture310201.jpghttp://img97.imageshack.us/img97/657...ture310201.jpg

Medium Tessellation:
GTX 480: 44 fps / HD 5970: 57 fps
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/6...ture310201.jpghttp://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6...ture310201.jpg
GTX 480: 50 fps / HD 5970: 60 fps
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6576/...ture310201.jpghttp://img42.imageshack.us/img42/657...ture310201.jpg

Very Little Tessellation:
GTX 480: 44 fps / HD 5970: 69 fps
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6...ture310201.jpghttp://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6...ture310201.jpg
GTX 480: 71 fps / HD 5970: 112 fps
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/657...ture310201.jpghttp://img693.imageshack.us/img693/6...ture310201.jpg

Using Illuminated Logo:
GTX 480: 9001 fps / HD 5970: 0 fps
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6089/fermi6.jpghttp://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3826/hd597005.jpg

Here's a Full run to reference the time/framerate on the graph below: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tpT6CPeKsE). The toughest scene for the Ati cards is around the 2 minute mark in the benchmark. The camera does a 360 around the heavily tessellated dragon in the early morning sun light, at which point the GTX480 has a higher average framerate than even the OC'ed HD 5970 at the 120 second mark. GF100 is whooping ATI's ass in tessellation. :respect: Must be the 4 triangles per clock? I dunno.
http://i43.tinypic.com/v7ts1j.jpg

Dark Void – 1920x1200 – AA4x – PhysX
GTX 285: 38.3
GTX 480: 77.6

FarCry 2 – 1920x1200 – AA4x – No physX
GTX 285: 51 FPS
GTX 480: 84 FPS

http://i39.tinypic.com/2zyaddv.jpg

Ati's response to GTX 480 is the 2GB 5870 "Eyefinity6" that has been sitting on a shelf collecting dust since last summer:
http://www.fudzilla.com/images/stori...yefinity_1.jpghttp://i44.tinypic.com/1z52447.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/28rgwwm.png

Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-0iF...layer_embedded

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2563/copyofruko.png

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8383/ruko.png

Check out some other interesting (non-rocketsled) vids showcasing GF100 in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcXmV5Je_gc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Juxq2tqHyI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ie0t_LkImk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLu8DyzoVMs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFgzG9WyGNQ

Well I hope it will come out already, cause I'm totally bored with the 9800GTX+ I have. Almost bought a 5850 these days, so it will better be released soon and at a decent price or I'll switch camp.

I wonder if they'll be able to release a full-featured GF100 card with 512 SPs by March.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katanai

Well I hope it will come out already, cause I'm totally bored with the 9800GTX+ I have. Almost bought a 5850 these days, so it will better be released soon and at a decent price or I'll switch camp.

---

you shoukd

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by -Sweeper_

I wonder if they'll be able to release a full-featured GF100 card with 512 SPs by March.

---

I hope so... I want to switch back from my 5870 to the Fermi. I'd think people looking to upgrade should wait considering it's supposedly so close, to see how it all shakes out, in any case.

I'm waiting to see what happens. I'd like to get the dual CPU board and some 512 Fermis I hope the two launch with some actual stocked products in March. It think dropping money on multiple 5870's or dual 5970's would be a mistake with Fermi on the horizon.

MSI Lightning 5870's are looking mighty tempting mean while though.

fermi needs to hurry the eff up... i might have bought a 5850 for no reason... im kinda hoping i did so i can sell it and get back to my fanboy roots

Yeah I can't wait till this card comes out. I've been waiting patiently, almost went with a 5870 a couple of times now. Managed to convince myself to just wait and be patient. I really hope it doesn't break the $500 mark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ulticool

It think dropping money on multiple 5870's or dual 5970's would be a mistake with Fermi on the horizon.

---

Fermi has been on the horizon for quite some time now, because ppl were expecting a release in late 09. But yes, if you've got a card with the power of a G80 or RV770 you should wait what Fermi bringts to the table. Even if Fermi is short in supply a price-drop on HD5k is very likely imho.

Which version will be first ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FischOderAal

..... But yes, if you've got a card with the power of a G80 or RV770 you should wait what Fermi bringts to the table. Even if Fermi is short in supply a price-drop on HD5k is very likely imho.

---

Very much hoping for it, and the main reason I ain't ready to discard my 6 mos. old GTX275 for a DX11 badged videocard, no, not yet.
The wait would still be worth it even if in the end I have to grab an ATI offering(I've got little faith on Fermi), but at least the price cut, the would be price cut, and having 2 makers to choose from.

In one long word; waaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttt.:D

so is march the supposed real release date or is it paper?

my gts just isnt cutting it for empire total war with darthmod anymore :( i may well just end up going with a 5850

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown

so is march the supposed real release date or is it paper?

my gts just isnt cutting it for empire total war with darthmod anymore :( i may well just end up going with a 5850

---

Word on the street is it will be avaible in april. If all goes well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingOfsorroW

Word on the street is it will be avaible in april. If all goes well.

---

What makes you say that? There has basically been official confirmation it will be early March.

It will be out in early March...will it be in stock in early March? Most likely no, it'll be flying off the shelves everywhere.

i didn't know that there was part 2 of fermis story :eek: hope i didn't miss much though first part was so exciting with all that tesellation effects in 3d :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElSel10

What makes you say that? There has basically been official confirmation it will be early March.

---

It's just rumors + some logic. The only official information from nv about the fermi release date is the Q1 2010 which will end in the April 2010. Now, taking into consideration that nobody even knows the final specs of the card, do you really expect it to be available in retail within a month from this present day? I don't.
There are other things, but i don't feel like going into more details right now. It's been discussed like 100s of times already.:welcome:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingOfsorroW

It's just rumors + some logic. The only official information from nv about the fermi release date is the Q1 2010 which will end in the April 2010. Now, taking into consideration that nobody even knows the final specs of the card, do you really expect it to be available in retail within a month from this present day? I don't.
There are other things, but i don't feel like going into more details right now. It's been discussed like 100s of times already.:welcome:

---

There are 3 months in a quarter... not 4.
March is the end of Q1 and what they were referring to when they said Q1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordEC911

There are 3 months in a quarter... not 4.
March is the end of Q1 and what they were referring to when they said Q1.

---

Nvidia's Q1 does not start with the new year.

Several product managers and internal corporate heads at Nvidia have told us there is a big chance that the two single-GPU GF100 cards will be shipping in March. Nvidia's fiscal Q1 2011 began on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 and ends on Monday, April 26, 2010 so there is still a fair bit time for the company to materialize its products. Subsequently, the dual-GPU GF100 model will ship one or two months later, and many analysts have suggested that it should materialize by May.

Due to the fact that AMD has already shipped over 2,000,000 DirectX 11-based parts, however, I sure hope Fermi-based GF100 parts start shipping soon.


Here's my upgrade strategy:

1) Sell Radeon HD 5970s at the beginning of March

2) Pick up 2x EVGA GeForce "GF100" single-GPU cards in SLI

3) Step-Up to 2x EVGA GeForce "GF100" dual-GPU cards in Quad-SLI (provided that they launch by May and/or before 90-days)

I'll be selling my 5870 in mid-Feb probably, just to give myself some leeway and hopefully have some time for solid info to arrive (I'll sell anyway though)... then snap up a Fermi 512 hopefully, eventually either stepping up to a 2xFermi card or a second Fermi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuDioFreaK39

Several product managers and internal corporate heads at Nvidia have told us there is a big chance that the two single-GPU GF100 cards will be shipping in March. Nvidia's fiscal Q1 2011 began on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 and ends on Monday, April 26, 2010 so there is still a fair bit time for the company to materialize its products. Subsequently, the dual-GPU GF100 model will ship one or two months later, and many analysts have suggested that it should materialize by May.

Due to the fact that AMD has already shipped over 2,000,000 DirectX 11-based parts, however, I sure hope Fermi-based GF100 parts start shipping soon.


Here's my upgrade strategy:

1) Sell Radeon HD 5970s at the beginning of March

2) Pick up 2x EVGA GeForce "GF100" single-GPU cards in SLI

3) Step-Up to 2x EVGA GeForce "GF100" dual-GPU cards in Quad-SLI (provided that they launch by May and/or before 90-days)

---

NIce ;):up:
I would call it the most optimistic alteration of the future events. I don't think there will be any fermi in march. And I even doubt we will see it up til the june-july(the 2nd quarter that is) in retail, but will see. This sutuation offers extensive possibilities of all sorts of speculations on the matter :D

LordEC911 Nvidia's 1st fiscal quarter started this month and will last til the end of the April. That's 3 months from now. During this time it assured us to release the fermi cards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuDioFreaK39

Several product managers and internal corporate heads at Nvidia have told us there is a big chance that the two single-GPU GF100 cards will be shipping in March. Nvidia's fiscal Q1 2011 began on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 and ends on Monday, April 26, 2010 so there is still a fair bit time for the company to materialize its products. Subsequently, the dual-GPU GF100 model will ship one or two months later, and many analysts have suggested that it should materialize by May.

Due to the fact that AMD has already shipped over 2,000,000 DirectX 11-based parts, however, I sure hope Fermi-based GF100 parts start shipping soon.


Here's my upgrade strategy:

1) Sell Radeon HD 5970s at the beginning of March

2) Pick up 2x EVGA GeForce "GF100" single-GPU cards in SLI

3) Step-Up to 2x EVGA GeForce "GF100" dual-GPU cards in Quad-SLI (provided that they launch by May and/or before 90-days)

---

This . . . this is a real fanboy . . . .


You dont have a clue of the final card and you are saying that you will buy 2 and within 90 days change them over . . .


:shakes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuDioFreaK39

Several product managers and internal corporate heads at Nvidia have told us there is a big chance that the two single-GPU GF100 cards will be shipping in March. Nvidia's fiscal Q1 2011 began on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 and ends on Monday, April 26, 2010 so there is still a fair bit time for the company to materialize its products. Subsequently, the dual-GPU GF100 model will ship one or two months later, and many analysts have suggested that it should materialize by May.

Due to the fact that AMD has already shipped over 2,000,000 DirectX 11-based parts, however, I sure hope Fermi-based GF100 parts start shipping soon.


Here's my upgrade strategy:

1) Sell Radeon HD 5970s at the beginning of March

2) Pick up 2x EVGA GeForce "GF100" single-GPU cards in SLI

3) Step-Up to 2x EVGA GeForce "GF100" dual-GPU cards in Quad-SLI (provided that they launch by May and/or before 90-days)

---

Wow... kinda cheating the system but that's one way to do it!

Where are you getting a 90 day return policy though?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Otis11

Wow... kinda cheating the system but that's one way to do it!

Where are you getting a 90 day return policy though?

---

EVGA Step-up program?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Otis11

Wow... kinda cheating the system but that's one way to do it!

Where are you getting a 90 day return policy though?

---

Ever heard of the EVGA Step-Up program? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edward88

This . . . this is a real fanboy . . . .


You dont have a clue of the final card and you are saying that you will buy 2 and within 90 days change them over . . .


:shakes:

---

You have no clue how absolutely fed up I am with AMD Catalyst drivers right now..

I have owned two Sapphire Radeon HD 5970 cards for six weeks now, neither of which has worked to produce advertised performance results in Quad-CrossFireX since the day they arrived on my doorstep. The issue described in a recent Tom's Hardware article is nothing more than an improper temperature sensor reporting bug that has been present since Catalyst 9.12 by my knowledge (but has probably persisted even further back), of which I have fallen victim to.

The only solution to the issue lies with the Catalyst makers (see: Terry Makedon) and driver engineers over in Ontario, Canada. Until then, Radeon HD 5000-series owners like myself who are experiencing the unfortunate setbacks of the latest Catalyst driver renditions will either have to join together and mass appeal against AMD's driver development team (see: the purpose of forum cooperation), or simply sit back and wait 30 days between new driver releases until the problem is eventually resolved for every single user on the planet.


This was my first Radeon purchase in over six years, and will probably be my last for quite some time to come..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuDioFreaK39

You have no clue how absolutely fed up I am with AMD Catalyst drivers right now..

---

Not what i wanted to read. But I'm not surprised. It saddens me, as ATI did have a stretch many years back that they were better than NV at driver support.:(

When I read what you just said, It fuels my hope that GT300 and nvidia's multi-monitor tech is miles better than what ATI can offer with the 5870. It would make my decision easier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuDioFreaK39

Ever heard of the EVGA Step-Up program? ;)

(driver issues)

This was my first Radeon purchase in over six years, and will probably be my last for quite some time to come..

---

Ditto except for a quick try with a 4870 (and now my 5870 I've had since launch has the same issues) that I disliked and went with a GTX 280 instead of. I have multitudes of minor glitches/issues/oddities with the ATI drivers I never experienced with my GTX 280 or 8800GT 512, or 8800GTS 640, heck even my 7900GT. All kinds of random alpha texture "ghosting"/flickering, lots of weirdness like fences disappearing depending on camera rotation in various games, occasional scanlines that only appear at 2560x1600 briefly, etc. Before anyone says it's an issue with the card and/or system, I already had a second 5870 on-hand to verify with, and tried both cards in a separate system to replicate the issues.

I have a lot annoyances with forcing AA/AF conflicting with some games (if I keep it forced to play Warhammer Online or Dark Age of Camelot/other games that don't have in-game options, and then forget to switch when launching ones that do, it often just doesn't apply any, forcing me to quit the game, set it manually through the annoying Catalyst Control Center, then re-launch the game and re-join the server/match). Also had a lot of random minor issues such as certain effects in games like NFS Shift causing major slowdown to 1-2fps, then zooming at hyper-speed to "catch up" with what should have been happening in-game, until the very latest Catalyst release several months later.

There's simply too many for me to list, frankly, whereas the nVidia drivers have served me pretty darn well, with my biggest issue being that I had to switch a manual profile per-game to "Force AA" instead of "Enhance setting AA" as a one-time thing. It just plain worked, and it had PhysX for Mirror's Edge (one of my favorites) along with a couple others for visual goodies.

I guess the point of this is: I'm ready for Fermi! :p:

You can see a post of some specific issues I have had here: http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.ph...5&postcount=59

Anyone notice how ATI has had driver problems since forcing us to the Netframework architecture?

I can honestly say that I've no driver issues with the games I play on my 5850. No vertical lines, gray screens, missing textures, etc...:up:

But I am aware of other people having said issues on 5870's and above. Too bad ATI can't get them right, they may loose a few high end customers to Fermi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by freeloader

Anyone notice how ATI has had driver problems since forcing us to the Netframework architecture?

---

I don't see how that is at all related. .NET is for CCC and has nothing to do with the driver. If you're complaining about driver issues you should try going back to some pre-2000 cards and their drivers.

Being that this is the GT300 thread, I have a feeling we shouldn't dwell too much on ATI. My parting contribution, in ATI's regard, will be this.

As GoldenTiger, I got a 4870 after the massive amounts of positive reviews only to find my experience with the card left a lot to be desired. I quickly switched to a GTX280 and had no issues (other than the first 185.xx drivers for Win7 being crap until 19x.xx came out).

I've wanted to go back to ATI, since my x1900 was one of my favorite cards I've ever owned. But they keep giving me reasons to go to nVidia....

idk but if I don't see any news on mid-feb something definitely wrong with fermi...

I really hope 360 (or 380) is worth a upgrade from 5870 cause Atis drivers is indeed a joke.

Normaly Nvidia should be launch Fermi at CEBIT, 2-6 march. But i also expect some solid news, i mean the date of launch and the paper launch in no more than two weeks. I think that now is so silence, because Nvidia quietly ships the chips to the parteners....:D to ambush properly Ati...

i agree about the fact drivers of 5870, and 5970 are too much beta drivers.

BUT, i bought the 5870 @ the start, and i don't noticed no real big problem.

Before drivers 9.12 hotfixes, I was seen some brief flash sometimes 20% of the screen for 1/60s become black or white or something else in 2D. Not beautifull and not to be very angry against AMD. Sure a bit surprise. It was about 2 times or 3 per week with 8-10h/day of use.

9.12 hotfixe changed that. And i don't noticed any other problem, with my multi screen.

10.1 introduced a problem with multiscreen and when the monitors shutdown. I don't like this, i shutdown manualy my montors, the crt goes down but LCD stay green, and the PC detect again screens when i move my mouse to wake up the PC.

That's not a big problem but i hope 9.12 to fix that.

I don't buy multiGPU for heavy drivers problem, i was on dual 3870 ( not a X2 ) but i don't liked to use so much power for low improvement and so bugs to the start. So i aim always the best GPU in 200-350€ including 20.6% of VAT range.

I was suprised too there is so much low issues with this new GPU with this old architecture. My mind is the process make inside too much bugs. The is always bugs process. Some serious and some not serious. The TSMC process was total failure even they don't want to say it but we know AMD aimed to start to sell 5870 in end of june with old planings.

And i'm looking for a cheap eyefinity not with TN monitors rig. ( just 3 monitors ). If anybody found something great.

Currently i'm on a iolair 24" MVA.

LED screens are available ? LCD is a shame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by madcho

[...]
LED screens are available ? LCD is a shame.

---

LED screens are LCD. they just happen to have LED instead of CCFL backlight ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaZz!

LED screens are LCD. they just happen to have LED instead of CCFL backlight ;)

---

Perhaps he means OLED displays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zalbard

Perhaps he means OLED displays.

---

Or Perhaps he means an LCDOLEDTFT :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuDioFreaK39

Ever heard of the EVGA Step-Up program? ;)






You have no clue how absolutely fed up I am with AMD Catalyst drivers right now..

I have owned two Sapphire Radeon HD 5970 cards for six weeks now, neither of which has worked to produce advertised performance results in Quad-CrossFireX since the day they arrived on my doorstep. The issue described in a recent Tom's Hardware article is nothing more than an improper temperature sensor reporting bug that has been present since Catalyst 9.12 by my knowledge (but has probably persisted even further back), of which I have fallen victim to.

The only solution to the issue lies with the Catalyst makers (see: Terry Makedon) and driver engineers over in Ontario, Canada. Until then, Radeon HD 5000-series owners like myself who are experiencing the unfortunate setbacks of the latest Catalyst driver renditions will either have to join together and mass appeal against AMD's driver development team (see: the purpose of forum cooperation), or simply sit back and wait 30 days between new driver releases until the problem is eventually resolved for every single user on the planet.


This was my first Radeon purchase in over six years, and will probably be my last for quite some time to come..

---

Same here ATI no more

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by E30M3

Same here ATI no more

---

And me, see that 5870 in my sig, its a gtx 275 now waiting on fermi. Ati cards are great, drivers suck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bodkin

And me, see that 5870 in my sig, its a gtx 275 now waiting on fermi. Ati cards are great, drivers suck

---

Yeah I have been wanting to upgrade my GPU, but I just keep trying to be patient with Nvidia and see what they release. They are starting to take a little to long though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by randomizer

I don't see how that is at all related. .NET is for CCC and has nothing to do with the driver. If you're complaining about driver issues you should try going back to some pre-2000 cards and their drivers.

---

Not a chance. I remember having a "out of sync" error with an AIW card that ATI couldn't even figure out.

You're probably right about .NET and I'm just blowing wind out my ass, but it sure as hell seems that way.

I wonder what % of "Ati drivers suck!" are because inefficient uninstalling of nvidia drivers and posterior installing of Ati driver.

Personally never had a problem with ati drivers, obviously every time i go from nvidia--> ati i make a clean windows install.

hmmm so a new thread was started to fill it with more bs?...talk of ati drivers upgrade strategies etc...should of just left the last thread open..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnJohn

I wonder what % of "Ati drivers suck!" are because inefficient uninstalling of nvidia drivers and posterior installing of Ati driver.

Personally never had a problem with ati drivers, obviously every time i go from nvidia--> ati i make a clean windows install.

---

Same.

When I went from my 8800Ultra to 4870X2, I never fully cleaned my HDD from the NV drivers and I had nothing but problems.

Clean OS install and Not a single problem with ATI, it's even my first ATI card.

If I install a new ati driver I uninstall the old one in safemode and remove any trace of it, then install the new one. Still no problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bodkin

And me, see that 5870 in my sig, its a gtx 275 now waiting on fermi. Ati cards are great, drivers suck

---

When they first come out, then weeks and months later they improve until you get a fair amount more stability and performance then you had with the original drivers. My old 4850 crossfire went from hardly working, to working great after a few driver releases.

the second page of this thread proves it self completely useless in terms of the topic it should cover! Do we really need any "Fermi" thread at all?

I mean the bl00dy card will be out in the next 30 days, so why not await and have "official" GeForce XXXXX thread?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

Nvidia's Q1 does not start with the new year.

---

Correct, that is their financial Q1...
When they state when they are going to launch a product, they aren't talking about their fiscal year unless they say so...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N19h7m4r3

Same.

When I went from my 8800Ultra to 4870X2, I never fully cleaned my HDD from the NV drivers and I had nothing but problems.

Clean OS install and Not a single problem with ATI, it's even my first ATI card.

If I install a new ati driver I uninstall the old one in safemode and remove any trace of it, then install the new one. Still no problems.

---

Had a 4870X2, 8800GTX, 8800GTS, 8600GT, and X1600XT in this rig at one time or another, never reinstalled the OS once and have had no problems other than bugs introduced by programs such as the "AMD GPU Clock Tool" or whatever it was called (it over-rides fan speeds and/or temperatures sensors). :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STEvil

Had a 4870X2, 8800GTX, 8800GTS, 8600GT, and X1600XT in this rig at one time or another, never reinstalled the OS once and have had no problems other than bugs introduced by programs such as the "AMD GPU Clock Tool" or whatever it was called (it over-rides fan speeds and/or temperatures sensors). :shrug:

---

i was bout to say, WTH clean windows install every time you switch graphics card companies my god, whats the world come to, you think we have come a little further than that with software development.

I haven't had an ATI card in a long time, was thinking just nabbing a 5870 until Nvidia gets their freaking crap out, im been hearing about driver issues and am pulling back on that now.

be honest, Nvidia side isn't all perfect. Theres really no problems though to most, aside from scaling being broken when you update a driver. which drives me absolutely nuts. you cant scale custom resolutions no matter what you do, and im a big custom res user.

had this problem before quite a few drivers back and spent 3 days trying to clean every remnant of the old driver and finally got it working again.

now with the recent drivers, same problem, same process of attacking and deleting everything Nvidia on the entire machine didn't fix it this time, rather aggravating, if anyone knows the root of this issue, god lemme know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Decami

Theres really no problems though to most, aside from scaling being broken when you update a driver. which drives me absolutely nuts. you cant scale custom resolutions no matter what you do, and im a big custom res user.

---

Yup. Tell me about it :upset:

Im craving for a new FERMI pic. I need to put a fresh image for my fantasies. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mibo

This time he even missed the wood screws ;-)

---

Must be fake then!!! :rofl:

boooooo... the original tesla card looked much better :/
it was all shiny and silver painted... this one is just cheap plain old black plastic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

boooooo... the original tesla card looked much better :/
it was all shiny and silver painted... this one is just cheap plain old black plastic

---

you mean to say the original fake tesla.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TurboDiv

Im craving for a new FERMI pic. I need to put a fresh image for my fantasies. :rolleyes:

---

See Here :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zalbard

Must be fake then!!! :rofl:

---

:rofl::rofl:

Most likely it is a false positive. Nod32 does not pick up anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ubuntu83

you mean to say the original fake tesla.

---

yeah, my bad... :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N19h7m4r3

Same.

When I went from my 8800Ultra to 4870X2, I never fully cleaned my HDD from the NV drivers and I had nothing but problems.

Clean OS install and Not a single problem with ATI, it's even my first ATI card.

If I install a new ati driver I uninstall the old one in safemode and remove any trace of it, then install the new one. Still no problems.

---

+1 for a computer enthusiast forum... some people are sometimes a tad slow.. :/

I'd like to add, I have switched from ATI to Nvidia and vice versa several times, and never had any driver problems. All I do is use the official driver uninstaller before installing the new card. Then I shut down the PC, put in the new card, and install the corresponding driver. Never an issue. I think all the driver problems people have actually stem from things like DriverSweeper.

IMO, the most important thing is to clean out the registry entries. I'll do this manually if I see old keys didn't get cleaned out properly by the uninstaller.

HKLM\System\ControlSet001\Control\Video

From there, anything that has Standard VGA, ATI or Nvidia stuff listed I delete the entire root key for. When done there are usually 3 or 4 system keys left that need to be left alone (netmeeting and others) Repeat for ControlSet002\..... . After that, it should automatically disappear from CurrentControlSet.....

This has fixed errors for me in the past. Works great with Win7 and WinXP. I've had this give me trouble in Vista though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock&Roll

Not what i wanted to read. But I'm not surprised. It saddens me, as ATI did have a stretch many years back that they were better than NV at driver support.:(

When I read what you just said, It fuels my hope that GT300 and nvidia's multi-monitor tech is miles better than what ATI can offer with the 5870. It would make my decision easier.

---

when are you talking about? ATI has always had terrible driver support... they've basically always had better hardware but the drivers couldnt be dealt with... im talking back as far as before the 9800XT's... things worked but had few features with the X800 stuff and recently things have been failtacular... i'll let you know tonight if i still think that... going from eVGA 9600GT KO to HIS 5850

damn you can't believe how much i wonder how bad is atis driver i think it will make me buy one of 5xxx series card

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoadconeTuning

when are you talking about? ATI has always had terrible driver support... they've basically always had better hardware but the drivers couldnt be dealt with... im talking back as far as before the 9800XT's... things worked but had few features with the X800 stuff and recently things have been failtacular... i'll let you know tonight if i still think that... going from eVGA 9600GT KO to HIS 5850

---

Emphasis on many years back. And not for a long stretch of time or anything. Lets not pretend nVidia's always been perfect.

It is my recollection that when they started their monthly driver release schedule it actually meant something. And nVidia was caught way off guard. I remember waiting 3-4 months between driver releases from nVidia when I had my 7800GTX...even though I knew they needed updated.

Fast forward to today, and you wind up with ATI sticking to their month release schedule. But as their twitter post implied, 10.1 was really just lip service and the real driver update will be 10.2 and 10.3...

In any case, nVidia is certainly in better standing with drivers these days. They release drivers when they have to and seem to be fairly on the ball with things. The worst experience I had there lately was getting a driver for Win7 that didn't suck. I was using 185.20 forever until the 195.xx betas were released. Whereas ATI seems perfectly happy to keep bugs in their drivers for years on end (referring to the HDTV over HDMI issues people are having)

Could somebody please remove all this driver talk.

FERMI/GF100 is the topic.

(yes, my post can be deleted, too)

I find it hard to replicate the so call "ATI crappy drivers" experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mibo

Could somebody please remove all this driver talk.

FERMI/GF100 is the topic.

(yes, my post can be deleted, too)

---

We are saying why we are looking forward or not to Fermi. It is 100% on topic, I say complain to a mod if you truly feel that way though rather than play pretend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mibo

Could somebody please remove all this driver talk.

FERMI/GF100 is the topic.

(yes, my post can be deleted, too)

---

i totaly agree, i keep checking in thinking this thread has updated news, only to see another 'ATI driver was bad to me' post. :shrug:

maybe im missing something here, heres the title of the thread,

The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

heres the last post,

Quote:

---

I find it hard to replicate the so call "ATI crappy drivers" experience.

---

talk about derailing a thread, this is so far off its on another planet now.

and this is no slight against the last poster, his reply was just an example of the last 20.

On Facebook now.

NVIDIA Fun Fact of the Week: GeForce GTX 480 and GeForce GTX 470 will be the names of the first two GPUs shipped based on our new GF100 chip!

http://www.facebook.com/NVIDIA?ref=nf

http://i50.tinypic.com/2628idd.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ethomaz

On Facebook now.

NVIDIA Fun Fact of the Week: GeForce GTX 480 and GeForce GTX 470 will be the names of the first two GPUs shipped based on our new GF100 chip!

http://www.facebook.com/NVIDIA?ref=nf

---

Is it out yet? Is it out yet? Is it out yet? :rofl:

So im guessing this is because the low end cards will be named in the 300s like the http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...ce_310_us.html ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shoopdawoopa

So im guessing this is because the low end cards will be named in the 300s like the http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...ce_310_us.html ?

---

Because those are G200 variants.
A real derivative for GF100 will have the lower GTX3x0 designation.

lmao. the 300 series is SO 2009. get ready for 400 series.:rofl:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2628idd.jpg

Is this so they can rename old G200 stock as GTX 3 series cards?

So amazing they skipped a generation?

Wait, when I saw that 4xx info, I didn't believe it and to check it myself. Did they do this JUST to troll Charley with the 3xx rename parts?


Edit : I would like someone to show even a single person who called this one.

Blahaha..

:clap::clap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xVeinx

So amazing they skipped a generation?

---

Nobody complained when ATI went from X800 to X1000... :shrug:

Just in case anyone was curious.... Found this here:

Quote:

---

Here's my guess on pricing, posted in a diff thread and updated with this latest news.....

Still expect pricing to be as follows:

* GTX 480 = GF100 (full) = $500-$550 with OC variants at +$10-$15 increments
* GTX 470 = GF100 (cut-down, downclocked) = $380-$430 with OC variants at +$10-$15 increments

Expecting both of these to be faster than the 5870.

* GTX 490 = 2xGF100 (cut-down, downclocked) = $600-$700

Expecting this to be faster than the 5970.

GF104 is looking more and more like the mainstream and performance DX11 Fermi-architecture based parts and slated to launch in May/June, which will replace all of Nvidia's existing GT200 and G92 parts in those markets. Expect these parts to fall in the sub-$300 price range with most of them in the sub-$200 range. The fastest part should have similar specs to a GTX 285 and perform slightly faster than a 5850 for $300 or so. I could also see Nvidia saving the GTX 300 series for these GF104 parts......

There's also rumors now of 28/32nm refresh parts from both ATI and Nvidia, which may be ready at the end of Q4 2010 at the earliest, but realistically, we probably won't see refreshes until Q1 2011. At that point you can maybe start to expect GF100b parts (refreshed GF100) in the $200-$300 range like they are now. Think similar pricing progression to GT200 to GT200b or G80 to G92.

---

Obviously speculation, but sounds like he knows a thing or two...:up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Otis11

Just in case anyone was curious.... Found this here:



Obviously speculation, but sounds like he knows a thing or two...:up:

---

He knows about as much as anyone on these forums. Unless, Nvidia is going to Global Foundries for 28nm...which is doubtful in the near future he discredits himself with that tidbit about the refresh parts from Nvidia. TSMC was late for 40nm by a year, and it certainly not on schedule for 28nm.

Who says the 4xx series is the next series ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Otis11

Just in case anyone was curious.... Found this here:



Obviously speculation, but sounds like he knows a thing or two...:up:

---

GF100b will be seen much sooner than that... probably Q2 and will be on 40nm.
Pricing is about right but not the specs... GTX380 will not be a fully enabled core.

Also as far as pricing, we have a pretty good idea since we know my estimates were a little high.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordEC911

$499 and $599 would be the minimum MSRP in March. If they "launch" a 512CC part, I'm thinking it would be $649-$699MSRP, at a minimum.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micutzu

Who says the 4xx series is the next series ?

---

Nvidia...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kadozer

He knows about as much as anyone on these forums. Unless, Nvidia is going to Global Foundries for 28nm...which is doubtful in the near future he discredits himself with that tidbit about the refresh parts from Nvidia. TSMC was late for 40nm by a year, and it certainly not on schedule for 28nm.

---

Actually it is feasible. TSMC has 28nm HkMG slated for H2 10.

And Nvidia has stated they have a refresh of Fermi due to drop before 2011.

So, it does make sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides

http://i50.tinypic.com/2628idd.jpg

Is this so they can rename old G200 stock as GTX 3 series cards?

---

I think this is a better strategy than naming the gf100 as the gtx 380. People won't be confused when they think they are getting fermi technology in the lower end gt 330 or something. When NV started naming chips as a 3xx part, they ruined the name for fermi based parts.

Hopefully with the new 4xx series, Nv can stop with the renaming and start fresh.

I think it would be ok if they introduced 40nm higher clocked g200b as their midrange for the time being for the $250 and under along with directx 10.1 support at the minimum. E.g Gtx 360 which would be a 40nm, 256bit ddr5, directx 10.1 with slightly better performance than a gtx 285 as a result of higher clocks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElSel10

Actually it is feasible. TSMC has 28nm HkMG slated for H2 10.

And Nvidia has stated they have a refresh of Fermi due to drop before 2011.

So, it does make sense.

---

Underlined the part where you should take note of then look at everything they've said in the past year. Try not to laugh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kadozer

Underlined the part where you should take note of then look at everything they've said in the past year. Try not to laugh.

---

That is totally irrelevant. Nvidia had delays on GF100 because it is an almost entirely new architecture incorporating some very advanced circuitry such as out of order execution and the PolyMorph engine, among other things. To top things off, it was created on a very bad process node from TSMC.

Next time around, they will be dealing with a die shrink of the same architecture which they have hopefully worked out a lot of bugs and manufacturing kinks at this point. Provided TSMC's 28nm process isn't an epic failure like 40nm, then it is very reasonable to expect a Fermi refresh before the end of the year.

EDIT:
Also the only "official" announcment on the launch of Fermi based GeForce cards by Nvidia was Q1 10 which was just changed to Q2 10 which makes April a strong possibility. All the other "announcements" were simply unofficial leaks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElSel10

..incorporating some very advanced circuitry such as out of order execution and the PolyMorph engine, among other things.

---

According to a lot of sources the PolyMorph engine was completely tacked on as a reaction to ATI and is not hardware based. Its a feature subset of the shader engine, no new circuitry from what I've seen/read. :shrug:

NVIDIA's naming scheme is starting to confuse me, why skip the 300 number and go straight to 400? Like they skipped the 100 number and went to 200 with GT200. I don't understand them anymore, first its weird VRAM and memory bus numbers and this. WTF

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tajoh111

Hopefully with the new 4xx series, Nv can stop with the renaming and start fresh.

---

Most likely they'll start "fresh" by rebranding all the GTX2xx to GTX3xx (it already happened with the mobile parts).

NVIDIA is really getting on my nerves with their deceiving marketing. I think I'll vote with my wallet and stay away from the green camp for a while.

GTX 3xx = Mobile graphics products under the GeForce GT 3xx series which are based on its GT21x series GPUs which are DirectX 10.1


GTX 4xx = Desktop graphics products DirectX 11

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElSel10

Nobody complained when ATI went from X800 to X1000... :shrug:

---

uhmmm do you even know what you are talking about ?

Awesome, looks like 3xx parts will be all renamed 2xx ones... Guess they cannot offer any Fermi based low and mid end solutions yet, huh?

say goodbye to 5870/5970.. their days are numbered!

:rofl:

GTX 4xx is a good move, because nVidia is going to rename some old junk anyway. It is much better to separate the naming schema and use the GT 3xx as junkyard ;)

well ... yet again!!!!!!!!
so again the nvidianz will have to wait for another unannounced date of release!!!
lets hope that we see nvidia new gpu b4 2012 :P after that everyone wud be talkin about stones n leaves :P

3xx = g2xx with DX10.1
4xx = Fermi with DX11

most mobile parts will be based on 3xx aka G200 :(

Now i also thing the GTX470 = 448 SU and GTX480 = 512 SU but how well can the GTX 470 do against a GTX 295/5970/5850 and 5870 @ 1ghz.

The GTX 480 may be expensive and a bit point less but i think the GTX 470 maybe a great buy lets see how it goes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NapalmV5

say goodbye to 5870/5970.. their days are numbered!

:rofl:

---

reason ?