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http://www-online.jp/
Seems like March 2010 onwards non-Japanese residents are going to be able to get their hands on these masterpieces via official channels. Whether this includes local distribution or just worldwide shipping is undetermined at this point. I'm guessing latter but still better than nothing...
...Fricken' finally!:eleph:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2gvtw69.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/14j6ntk.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/2eygw38.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2lauhbo.jpg
very nice cant wait till march, I so want a XR-1 Black Knight
They truly look the Rolls Royce of cases, well the Bentley at least :) It will be great to see a review of how they perform re airflow hotspots etc.
The screws in the front ruined it. I prefer clean Lian-Li's or SilverStone's.
Scheduled to start shipping March 2010 Link
Time to start saving, I'm buying a Windy
I have always loved these cases.
Heh, to each his own I guess. Me? I prefer an abundance of detail in things over the boring "shaven" look.Quote:
Originally Posted by clayton
Who knows, now that they might become slightly more common in the west there is a chance you'll be able to experience one in flesh and get a different perspective on them.:up:
Yeah, I posted about this first thing I found out over at ocforums earlier today. I've been waiting for this day for some time... suffice to say.
Here is the parent company`s website link.
http://www.hoshino-ing.co.jp/
Does the XR-1 Black Knight only vent well with the front door open? The only pics I've seen of it show a rather air restricting, ventless front door and the thing loses it's nice looks with it swung open. If anyone knows of a site that shows details of the design features I'd appreciate some links.
I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't spend the money on one.
I wonder how much are they going to sell them in the US.
hopefully not $800+
Bye Lian Li, hello Windy. I've always prefered japanes over chinesse both daily items and women
Hate to interrupt the small talk guys, but since some of you seem to know these cases well, can someone tell me how the heck they get decent intake flow with a non vented door covering the front fans? Seems this case is geared more toward silent operation than gaming.
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9356/xr1closed.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9544/xr1open.jpg
Its actually a very ingenious design using de side intake to suck up air
that passes the mid plate and going through the front fans
it doesnt perform less than usual intake
$300+ for an mATX case = fail
I don't care how nice the cases look. For this kind of money I could build another computer.
Well, I won't be going with Windy.
Check out this link for more detailsQuote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
http://windy-online.com/case/alcadia_xr1/feat_1.html
http://windy-online.com/case/alcadia_xr1/silent.html
ALCADIA XR-1 G1 BLACK KNIGHT will sell for over $600 US dollars
http://windy-online.com/case/black_k...r1/lineup.html
$600!!!!! For that price it better give damn good head and cook me breakfast. They certainty look very stylish, but im a windowed case kinda guy and i dont see any that have a window.
They certainly look sweet. I hope the price will eventually go down and Windy will go into the US and Europe market. That will be wonderful.
OK, thanks for the links. I get the design concept except for two things. 1) No dust filtration in such an extravagant case, 2) why does the rear duct exhaust the warm air downward vs upward?Quote:
Originally Posted by dctokyo
Anyways, I agree, the pricing is insane. I can get a Lian Li PC-A70F from a local distributor for only $184.
But that's not produced in Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
I have owned this case before, it comes with air filters. the rear duct helps out with noise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
@ redphil,
Paying a huge difference in price over production in Japan vs Taiwan is much less of an issue than the R&D that goes into it. Hell, the best consumer grade processors are still made in Taiwan. I just don't see the need to dump over $400 more into design concepts that are quite frankly unnecessary and would cost much less were they to have another factory elsewhere build them. I'm not saying all the concepts are useless, I'm just not convinced the XR-1 BK has any better cooling capability than the PC-A70F.
Generally when you use smaller and/or a lesser number of fans AND have the intake air snake through a more closed off shell, it equals more heat buildup, particularly if the interior space isn't as large. It doesn't matter if compartmentalization is used, spacious, direct flow designs have always been superior for cooling. Antec had their hey day with the P180 series, but today's hardware needs more space, fans and direct flow. I'd be willing to bet it's quieter, but anything I get will be quieter than what I have now. My main priority is spaciousness and good cooling for high end gaming hardware.
@ dcTokyo,
Where are the filters placed and why don't any of the pics show them? I was thinking the rear duct was mostly for noise reduction. As I've been implying I think noise is even more of a concern for the R&D team than cooling. Most cases focus more on one than the other because it's hard to do both well.
Bottom line, with features and pricing like they currently have, WiNDy will always cater to the elitist crowd, which is a very small market niche. With the current US and global economy, they really should consider adding some basic case designs to their lineup before going abroad with sales, like Silverstone and Lian Li have done recently. I still think the PC-A70F is one of the best values in an alu case I've seen. WiNDy is coming abroad at a time when the competition in high end cases is tougher than it's ever been, and it's bad timing for boutique brands, unless they change their concepts some.
I guess I'm one of the "lucky" ones :up:, since I work & live in Tokyo, and have been buying Windy cases since 2003.
http://www.evga.com/community/modsri...92_9809_01.jpg
http://www.evga.com/community/modsri...92_9809_02.jpg
As for Windy Global, as I understand it (from a Nihongo letter sent to Windy Club members, of which I am one), Hoshino have opened a factory in China, and are offering a "value" line of laser-direct cut aluminum cases. Here is their new OEM page. IMO, their pricing is is very competitive (if special pricing offered to Windy Club members is any indication...)
Undoubtedly their Japan-made products are expensive, but you get what you pay for - it's difficult to explain, but really is something to be experienced.
That said, I did go ahead and have my ZR3000 Alcadiia cut up & mod'ded for water cooling. The build log is here (in case you're interested).
HTH...:cool:
Thanks for the info Woody, but good grief, if they're planning to ship to as many locations as they have indicated, they need to get WAY more English friendly on their websites. My guess is even the econo Chinese versions will be hard pressed to compete with brands such as Lian Li on price, features and performance. I've yet to even see any real comparison tests between their Japanese cases vs other ones, and for a company that's been producing alu cases longer than anyone, you'd think there would be such info out there in ENGLISH. That's one of the reasons I'm skeptical much of the oohs and ahs are over aesthetics, features, and quality of materials and construction vs actual end result. I experienced a lot of that when I was deep into bicycling, both road and mountain. The sport is riddled with high end, CAD designed CNC part laden bikes, many of which perform no better than those costing a 1/3 the price.
This is good news. They'll overtake Lian Li on the high end segment.
Hard but not impossible. Silent and performant means a lot more expensive - that's what you get here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
Make no mistake i'm a Lian Li A71F (same as A70F with door) owner, but i clearly see where those Windy cases are superior.
hmm....i have be buying Soldam for 2 1/2 years now. I have a VR2000gmbi Black Knight for sale right now.
I can not wait for it to be easier to get a hold of these cases. I have purchased 15 in the last year. Shipping is crazy from Singapore or Tokyo to US.
I've yet to see any actual comparison tests on thermal efficiency though, and the A71F is yet another design that seems to lean more toward silence than cooling. Hence that door you referred to, which has little side vents, vs a massive slotted intake area right in front of the fans like the A70F.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmat
With as many cases out there that tout superior cooling and fail to actually BE superior at it, I only trust comparison tests. Number 1 priority in a gaming case should be cooling.
I fail to see why this is better and worth its price. From the pics alone, it looks like the side panels have poor fit. 600 for a case? I thought the LL 343B cube was expensive.
I've always liked the looks of these - will be interested to see how the wider distribution works out, and if they are the same as the original.
The side panels (both outer & inner shells) fit very well indeed, snap-fitting together in a very "Lego-like" manner (from my own experience).Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
Also, the aluminum alloy (A5052P) used on the case does not strip easily (a very bad experience I've had on other makes...)
HTH.
As for me and some my friend`s, we found out that many of the Windy case`s are very easy to strip if you change parts often, all of the Windy case`s that I owned had this problem, that is the reason I gave up and sold them off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody-san
These cases look absolutely beautiful, in want to see one in person:eek:
OH yeah, and these are "quality" cases? Sorry man, it's not sounding like Christmas, "it's beginning to sound a lot like BS", sing along folks!Quote:
Originally Posted by dctokyo
Even my $100 5 yr old Kingwin KT-424 all aluminum case has steel spring clip type inserts for the MB that you screw the MB screws into. :rolleyes:
So I guess part of that nice accessibility is to be able to get behind the MB tray and hold nuts there when the MB mounting holes strip out. That's LAME WiNDy!
And you base all your evidence from one person in one post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
I don't think the WINDy cases are geared towards extreme performance. They're subtle and stylish, with great emphasis on acoustics. No matter how great their design, a Soldam won't beat a HAF wind tunnel in temperature; but they target very different market segments...
Well let's break this down into the responses so far. By my count it's...Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemax
24 - total people having posted
12 - have raved with no clear indication if they'd buy one
7 - have indicated they are skeptical, including you
3 - have owned one, one of which said he AND friends have had threads strip, (that's at least 3 then)
2 - plan to buy one
So, what we actually have here, since you say I'm biasing my skepticism on only one person's post, is only 2 of 3 people owning them not claiming problems, but one says he and some friends have had threads strip. Sorry pal, but by my count that adds up to at least 3 bad experiences against 2 good ones, unless you choose to call dctoky a liar. By the sound of his posts, I doubt he's even biasing himself against the brand as much as you. So I'll take that one person's word for himself and some friends having problems with them.
Why you chose to act as if I'm jumping to conclusions with the prior posts being as they are while you talk not just skeptically but very assumptively regarding a HAF cooling much better is kinda odd really. If you'll notice, I only mentioned skepticism, mostly in the form of questions about any comparison tests or customer experiences regarding cooling, vs your painting a scenario based on assumption. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black don't you think?
And if you want to bring build quality into the debate, dont oppose mid segment coolermaster cases...
The total intake area is still good. Consider it's just a "silencing chamber" or baffle. Also i think you fail to see the main intent for this case: watercooling. Lian Li made it clearly for it with the front cut shaped like a watercooling radiator template (it's not 2 separate holes, really a radiator template) and the top panel (accessory) with its triple radiator mounting. If you want superior air cooling cases look at the Tyr series instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
That, is rather wrong. For a gaming case you want "enough cooling". What you would refer to is "overclocking case" and that's a different (if interesecting) group. And there i can see these windy cases have a proper design, with controlled airflow (which is BETTER than a case with holes poked everywhere and 2564636 fans blowing at high speed), controlled acoustics (less direct path for sound to exterior).Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
A71F, other door cases, or those windy cases, if they can cool down an extreme gaming rig with SLI and such, then cooling is enough. Next priorities are build quality and silence, because some people dont use their gaming rigs for games 100% of the time...
I love how you actually counted them, now who has a life?:rofl:;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
AFAIK, some of the older series Windy casings did strip - in particular, an MT-PRO1300 Legend I had back in 2004. This issue seems resolved since Windy started using a different aluminum alloy. I know none of the several new casings I've had since 2008 have had any problems, a fact attested to also by my friends who have a similar model (i.e.ZR3000 series).Quote:
3 - have owned one, one of which said he AND friends have had threads strip, (that's at least 3 then)
Anyway, I believe no one here is forcing anyone to buy a Windy case - to each his/her own. Speaking for myself, all the casings mentioned so far (and Windy) are available where I'm at, and I choose Windy...
..and Abee for that matter!
HTH.
@ gmat,
OK, I can see how the A71F may be more for WC, than air, but I stand by what I said on cooling being #1 priority in a gaming case, esp if it's a high end one.
Those buying high end gaming cases typically ARE gaming enthusiasts and DO OC, quite a bit in fact. They are much more likely to prioritize cooling over silence or even filtration just to get peak performance without too much temp increase.
Look at ALL the the most popular gaming cases that have hundreds of customer reviews praising their design and they all share one thing in common, lots of fans and great airflow. It's always prioritized over silence and filtration.
@ lkiller,
LOL, I just KNEW someone was going to say that, but none the less the points are valid.
@ Woody,
Thanks for the enlightening specifics. What really matters though I think is whether they only made design changes, or actually offered to somehow fix the units that had already been sold with such problems. With pricing such as theirs and a membership program, one would think it should even be done via an email notification if not recall.
Hi:Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
You're welcome, glad it helps.
IIRC, they did offer to look into it when I asked (through email, in English; the answer was also in grammatically correct English :D). At that time however, I decided against sending the case back but instead bought another (larger) model!
I have taken to having a specialist mod my late model Windy cases for water cooling - hopefully I'll be able to post some results soon.
Thanks.
This is where you are wrong I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
I repeat: Windy cases aren't for those who prioritize performance over everything else. Wind tunnels are your best friends.
If you're into style, acoustics and quality though; then it's a different matter all together.
I rest my case, if you arent going for overclocking records, a wind tunnel is purely useless. If you are going for the VERY high end then you're going to watercool your stuff anyway. For "just" the high end (that is, a gaming rig that will take all today games at ultra detail at full res etc.) you can make something air cooled that has proper baffles, filtration, airflow management, acoustic management, that is OCed and run well 24/24.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
Peak performance ? If your OC doesnt get better or worse because you are not using a chiller or LN2, what's the point of being 2°C over ambient on a 4.2GHz i7 if it can score exactly the same clocks 24/24 at 30°C over ambient ? Unless you're in a sort of pee measuring contest for who has the lowest temps there's no point... and that's, almost everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
Dont get me started on reviews or lack of judgement from usual "gaming case" reviews. The only ones i believe now are SPCR because they do proper acoustic measurements, not an "i cannot hear that 6000rpm delta, it's silent i tell you", and because they have proper engineering views on how to make a proper quiet gaming rig. The "poke 50 holes and put as many high spinning fans as possible" aka "wind tunnel" case is a poor engineering solution to a problem that requires a bit more thought. And poorly engineered cases, there are plenty around, especially when you see "gamer" in the marketing flyer that goes around with it. Ah i wont start a rant about the "gamer" marketing or i'll write pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
No, not always, and the best cases have silence and filtration. I'd think of Tyr X500 to start with, although not very silent, good air cooling case. Then those Soldam / Windy things with their baffles and compartments: that's the proper way to do it. Antec scored very high too with their P18x series. Corsair Obsidian is a good try but has some serious flaws (no filtration, stock window that is tough to soundproof, a bit too many holes here and there) but has proved to be an excellent watercooling case anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
Nice cases. I wouldn't mind one if the price comes down a bit. And hopefully it does.
Well sending a case back that is made in Japan when there were no US distributors could have easily cost way more than it was worth. One has to wonder if they would still honor such a thing with better options for those stateside since they're going wide distribution. Wide distribution doesn't necessarily mean better support unless they also have local places to do warranty and repair. They must have received more than just few emails if it was common enough to warrant a redesign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody-san
@gmat and teemax,
At this point I'm going to save the others here from topic diversion and wasted space with marathon quotes and agree to disagree, so this will be my LAST post on this subject. I still stand by everything I said. One doesn't have to be into WR OCing contests or WC to want good cooling as a priority in a gaming case. In fact MOST out there I would say need to carefully budget their money on such things. Few gaming cases are really that quiet. Silence and cooling are two totally different mindsets and those whom expect both, esp in a boutique brand, are quite frankly deep in pockets or obsessed with spending everything they have on such things. I prefer to speak in terms of the majority than a select few.
There's a difference between getting peak gaming performance and going for as high an OC as possible for mere bragging rights. You can OC just enough to achieve max settings in any game out there with today's hardware without resorting to a WC setup, IF you have a case with great airflow vs one that prioritizes silence. Also, I never said WiNDy WAS a gaming specific case. Obviously though, the more you respond, the more it becomes clear that what I've been saying for several posts is true. WiNDy seems to care more about silence than cooling. And basically that's ALL I'm saying for all intents and purposes. If one want's to pay $600 for a full tower that is dead silent but doesn't even have as good air cooling as a $150 case, then spend another $300 or more on WC because of it, so be it. However I, and I dare say MOST, are not of that mindset though, or budget for that matter.
I'll end by saying I find it odd that the ones arguing these points the most in favor of such designs are NOT actually claiming to be current or former owners of this brand. It appears to me XS Forums is chock full of members whom speak as if experts about high end boutique brands without actually being able to afford them, so what's the point really? The most telling testimonials came from two here whom HAVE owned them. And although they do seem to like the brand, one has sold his off, and BOTH have verified there were quality issues that don't really warrant the prices they're charging for them. That doesn't mean they haven't improved, but I do feel it's too soon to judge how well they'll be received stateside, esp in times of recession. All the fanspeak on the net, esp from those whom don't own or plan to own one can deceivingly make it APPEAR a brand is ultra popular, but the only thing that really matters in the end is how many prefer X over Y brand in actual SALES. They may have a high profit margin, but they're also taking on a lot of overhead going worldwide.
the cases look nice, no doubt about it , but it will be out of my list of requiremnts (price and air flow mainly)
Hey Frag, I think it is time to get this straight.
Let's put it this way. Rich people LOVES Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Porsches; it is their symbol. Have you seen a Ferrari 612 that is actually going up to 180mph? No, you don't. The 5.7L V12: Waste. Have you ever seen a Porsche Carrera GT3 driving at the racetrack every single day? Nope. The expensive handling system: Waste. Have you ever seen a Lambo going so fast, it can almost fly off the ground? No. The Aerodynamic designed Carbon Fiber body: A big waste.
You say that the V12 engines that they put in the Ferraris is a waste, because it will NEVER go so fast. You can also say that the extreme suspention systems they put in the Porsches are a waste, because not EVERYONE drives on race courses everyday. You can also say that the Aerodynamic carbon fiber body they put in a Lambo is a waste, because you will never go so fast that the car will fly off the ground.
They want Ferrari because of they are just simply enthusiasts. They love cars.
They love the roar of the V12 Engines every seconds they spend with the car. They love the handling they get from the Porsche when they do a right turn on a street. They love that Carbon Fiber pattern on the Lambo everytime they walk into the garage.
Yes, you can buy a house with the money that are spent onto the exotic cars.
You can argue that you just drive to work with the car, or maybe travelling; 120k on a Ferrari is a waste. They also burn more gas and cost more to maintain, right?
But sorry, if you don't like it, don't be jealous. This is not the world of the Fox and the Grape. They are the rich people, they got the money, you can't go against them; it is their money anyways. Yeah, there are more cars that are "well worth the money," but those exotic cars ARE better than the others
Now put this comparison into a Windy case. Or maybe a $300 LianLi or a $300 Silverstone.
You know what I mean.
So I would have to buy one just so I can praise it?
Darn i din know praising costs money
Currently, in order to buy a Windy case you need to have a Japanese shipping address and a Japanese credit card. So it's no surprise that not many people have it. Also note that I'm not "praising" Windy, I'm excited about having a chance to buy one since I like their design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
You, sir, on the other hand, criticize Windy without any first hand experience. I wonder how you justify that...
Hi Woody, you do know the history right? When Soldam (Windy) when out of business the first time back in 2006 many employees who were unhappy with Hosino-San left and form "Abee" that is one reason "Abee" cases look very close to the old Windy cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody-san
There you have it, this is the target of those exotic cases (exotic in price and in specs). lkiller123 nailed it before me - it's all about taking no compromises.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
I dont think cases priced over $300 are targeted to the "majority" at all. You are missing the target here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
And you can reach the very same OC with a case that prioritizes silence: of course that case will be a lot more expensive but that was not the point here ? We all know you have to pick 2 of 3 (silence, performance, price).Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
There i care to disagree: proper ducting of airflow results in just as good temperatures as having a basically open air thing with more fans. Refer to my previous posts when i say it requires proper engineering thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
And you are presently guilty of it ? I speak of such high end systems because i own a few and i've built a few for friends too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frag Maniac
QFT man, he is a person who believes that AZZA cases are better cases than Antec, CoolerMaster, and even Lian-Li. Even though I suggested him the cases that are at the similar price point:shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemax
Leave him alone, people.:down:
The first product page in english is up:
ALTIUM VR2000 SUMMITEER
On a more personal note, I just ordered (actually already paid for) this from the japanese site: MC3 X
http://i47.tinypic.com/5d8qhh.jpg
I was blinded by it's photoshopped blinginess. ;)