[Review] Round 2 Overall Comparison Thread - Core i7 Waterblocks

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10-04-2009, 02:01 PM
Vapor

[Review] Round 2 Overall Comparison Thread - Core i7 Waterblocks
This will be I keep the updated overall comparison charts of all my review installments :)

Not many words required here...they're all in the installments :p:

Installments Completed To Date
Complete Overall Comparison at skinneelabs
EK Supreme and Supreme LT Tested (Full Review)
Heatkiller 3.0 LC and LT Tested (Full Review)
Swiftech Apogee GTZ and GTZ SE Tested (Full Review)
Swiftech Apogee XT Tested (Full Review)
Koolance CPU-350 and CPU-345 Tested (Full Review)
Enzotech Sapphire Rev.A and Luna Rev.A Test (Full Review)

Simple Charts

http://vapor.skinneelabs.com/i7/Roun...impleTemps.png

http://vapor.skinneelabs.com/i7/Roun.../SimpleGPM.png

Varying Pumping Power
- Very High Pumping Power: All three MCP355 pumps and the D5 are on at full speed--this has a very similar PQ curve to a pair of RD-30s at 20V.
- High Pumping Power: Two MCP355s with EK V2 tops are on at full speed. The other two pumps are off.
- Medium High Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at full speed. The other three pumps are off.
- Medium Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at full speed and setting 5. The other three pumps are off.
- Low Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at minimum speed (~7.7V, ~2450RPM). The other three pumps are off.
- Very Low Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at minimum speed--setting 1. The other three pumps are off.
http://vapor.skinneelabs.com/i7/Roun...Results25W.png

http://vapor.skinneelabs.com/i7/Roun...sults25WEP.png

These are the core graphs of my data...a few more graphs with different interpretations of the data and all the data tables are at my backroom at skinneelabs, as well as the individual reviews :toast:

Thanks for reading :)
10-04-2009, 06:09 PM
skinnee

You're going to have trouble picking colors before you're done... I'm calling it!

Nice work Vapor! :up:
10-04-2009, 08:22 PM
bigx333

The looks of supreme lt is amazing but 3c difference is a bit too much for a block :(

BTW... Good job :D
10-04-2009, 08:27 PM
Linuxfan

The heatkiller is the winner! :up:
Like the way the heatkiller block looks too... :)
Thanks for the useful comparison!
10-04-2009, 08:33 PM
WeeMaan

Whats the difference between LT and LT+? :confused:
10-04-2009, 08:35 PM
assisterah

HK 3.0 is out of stock everywhere in the US.
so bad I didn't pick one up earlier.:(
10-04-2009, 08:37 PM
bigx333

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeeMaan

Whats the difference between LT and LT+? :confused:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=235916
10-04-2009, 10:10 PM
zeropluszero

Here and everyone has been recommending the supreme LT...
10-04-2009, 10:50 PM
Salamndar

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeropluszero

Here and everyone has been recommending the supreme LT...

Exactly what I thought! :confused:

Might cancel the supreme LT order and wait until sidewinder gets a back plate for the HK 3 !
:mad:
10-04-2009, 11:40 PM
bigx333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salamndar

Exactly what I thought! :confused:

Might cancel the supreme LT order and wait until sidewinder gets a back plate for the HK 3 !
:mad:

I have always seen people calling the HK 3 as the king of blocks and the hesmelaugh review has already proven that, the vapor review is confirming it ;) .

If the watercool release a plexi top version of the HK 3 it would be perfect :rofl::D
10-04-2009, 11:42 PM
PatRaceTin

Wow my SupremeLT Plexi look bad
10-05-2009, 06:04 AM
Sadasius

Very nice testing results here. Thanks a million Vapor. Very informative! I like the graphs...:up:
10-05-2009, 06:14 AM
PaulyD

Great work there, confirmed what I already thought and glad I have my HK 3.0 :D
10-05-2009, 01:35 PM
JoeBar

Great work as always. Thanks m8... :clap:
10-13-2009, 08:54 AM
shazza

Just reviewing info on i7 water blocks again. Has there been discussion on the differences in the results here vs the results HESmelaugh posted here? While the test results show the HK as a top performer, there seem to be some major differences as you go down the charts (placement of EK Supreme LT and relative temperature differences, for example)?

I'm not doubting either set of test results, just trying to understand them, particularly as we'll soon be seeing new rounds of testing with the Swiftech XT ?
10-13-2009, 09:42 AM
rge

When testing the same mount multiple times, one that has burned in for a few days, I get about .2-.4 difference in temps, despite using fluke calibrated therm down to .1C. Even using exact same large fft on die load, everest showing same watts dissipated, ambients within .1C of both runs, and water temps same, and correcting for ambients. So to me, any test within .2 to .4C is about same. Also vary pressure on mount, both good pressure but one just under or at recommended, other just over and can lower temps .5C on one cpu IHS and can watch it go down as you tighten, and on another cpu, may see less or no such effect from surface/interface differences. Varying flow can get .5C easy, and one block may be less responsive to flow.

I was actually impressed in the similarities in the two. The GTZ and Supreme one showed .4C higher, other opposite by .1C, to me just means basically same, maybe one performs better with given flow, given pressure, or maybe just typical error. But agree with the outlier was the supreme LT, yeah that one made less sense between two, but could been number of variables/error.

I have tested just 4 blocks but on 2 different cpus, one lapped, one not, and can see funny things like core 1 is hottest core by 5C on block 1, 5 mounts in a row. But with block 2, core 1 is only 1-2C hotter than core 0 and 2, on all of 5 mounts, presumably from difference interface, ie different block shapes/bow and different cpu shapes.

I guess point is when you see 1-2C or greater, probably see that on most cpus/tests. But <1C while real on that setup, may be different on anothers easily just from flow, interface, tntc variables.
10-13-2009, 09:52 AM
shazza

Good explanation, rge. I know I always use reviews as guidelines only, and then test out on my own setup. I also was impressed with the consistencies between two sets of reviews BUT, I started getting a little concerned when I see people posting that they are now unhappy with their EK Supreme Lt based on a single review. All the reviewers will tell people to take the results as guidelines only, but you know how we all are - we see a better number, and gotta have that block!

Kudos to all the testers and reviewers - it definitely is hard work.
10-13-2009, 10:07 AM
Salamndar

I can't wait to see the XT on that list!
10-13-2009, 12:13 PM
scamps

and the winner is (you guys didn´t want to listen :p:):

http://www.abload.de/thumb/006_bildgrendernk1lr.jpg

Reviews of HESmelaugh and Bundymania were showing the same result month ago.

Nevertheless thanks for good work!
10-13-2009, 12:48 PM
shazza

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Morello

Vapor,

I really like the pump settings!! Is it possible for you to sticky this chart in a non-reply thread on the forum???

Also is it possible for you to include the Swiftech XT later on???

It is stickied ... check here: Liquid Cooling - Information/Guides & Reviews/Tests at the top of the page, as is HESmelaugh's review of i7 waterblocks.

EDIT - oops, I believe you wanted just the chart sticking, although it shouldn't be an issue just to click on the link above.

I imagine Vapor will test the XT when he gets time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamps

and the winner is (you guys didn´t want to listen :p:):

http://www.abload.de/thumb/006_bildgrendernk1lr.jpg

Reviews of HESmelaugh and Bundymania were showing the same result month ago.

Nevertheless thanks for good work!

A broad generalization on people not listening :) Many of us noted the other reviews. The Heatkiller is quite popular.
10-13-2009, 01:15 PM
rge

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamps

and the winner is (you guys didn´t want to listen :p:):

There are a lot of people on this forum that bought the heatkiller and have had it for over 6 months, many have posted they got 2-3C better temps. I was one of the later ones, did not get it until May of this year, and I got ~3C better temps as well, and posted such somewhere at some point. Who is "you guys"? I searched but there is no "you guys" user name here, wrong forum?:shrug:
10-14-2009, 12:56 AM
Migi06

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazza

Just reviewing info on i7 water blocks again. Has there been discussion on the differences in the results here vs the results HESmelaugh posted here? While the test results show the HK as a top performer, there seem to be some major differences as you go down the charts (placement of EK Supreme LT and relative temperature differences, for example)?

Yes EK LT did have good results in dexgo review, but he tested it with stock intel core i7 IHS (so stock IHS isnt always same and way different than lapped one + I bet Vapor have lapped one).. All blocks should be tested with lapped cpu´s (But then guys who dont lap their cpu..) and error marginal would be more minimal.. Like RGE said more important is proper low, good mounting, price, even nicer look (for someone... not for me:rofl:) than 1-2c better temps..

Germans (and I..) did know HK3 was king long ago than anyone in these forums... (even RRR was moaning for EK supreme) :D Read forumdeluxx forums and be wiser.. :yepp:
10-14-2009, 01:58 AM
scamps

Quote:

Originally Posted by rge

There are a lot of people on this forum that bought the heatkiller and have had it for over 6 months, many have posted they got 2-3C better temps. I was one of the later ones, did not get it until May of this year, and I got ~3C better temps as well, and posted such somewhere at some point. Who is "you guys"? I searched but there is no "you guys" user name here, wrong forum?:shrug:

not able to take a joke? :p:
I just was wondering how often the EKs and the Koolance have been recommended as "the best ones" at XS after the launch of the Heatkiller

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migi06

...
Germans (and I..) did know HK3 was king long ago than anyone in these forums... (even RRR was moaning for EK supreme) :D Read forumdeluxx forums and be wiser.. :yepp:

signed :D
10-14-2009, 02:53 AM
CedricFP

Waiting on Vapour's Apogee XT review :D
10-14-2009, 03:39 AM
rge

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamps

I just was wondering how often the EKs and the Koolance have been recommended as "the best ones" at XS after the launch of the Heatkiller

I bet it was that you guys again:p:
10-14-2009, 06:45 AM
shazza

Okay folks ... a request that we stay on topic about block performance, and testing methodologies.

No need for this to get into an argument about forums, or who adopted what block first.
10-14-2009, 09:27 AM
rge

Quote:

Originally Posted by CedricFP

Waiting on Vapour's Apogee XT review :D

Yeah, I was hoping to see what Vapor or others got before I took off to Hawaii for rest of this month...but have to wait and see it when I get back...I need to get out in real world anyways, wife is giving me the look to get off computer and finish packing:D.

I know they are going to be very close, I have 8 mounts of XT now, most interesting thing I saw was the ratio differences between core temps with different blocks. I have way over 30 mounts with heatkiller, playing with different tims/mounting pressures, etc, and all my core temps are in ratio of, core 0 and 2 ~ same, core 1 is 1-2C higher, core 3 is 3c lower

Now with swiftech XT block it is core 0, 1, 3 all ~ same, and core 2 is 3-4C higher, and always the same ratio through all 8 mounts of it. I have no more time to play with it, or wife will kill me, need to be getting ready....I assume that is one block bowed more than other? but some interface difference... It is not mounting pressure, I tried varying pressure on HK have gone 1/2 turn all way down to end. Interested to see if others see any change between cores.
10-14-2009, 02:49 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazza

Okay folks ... a request that we stay on topic about block performance, and testing methodologies.

No need for this to get into an argument about forums, or who adopted what block first.

Thanks Shazza :)

Apogee XT review is delayed due to the Gigabyte compatibility issue (I use a Gigabyte board). Fortunately the problem was rectified quickly by Swiftech and I have a new base here already and testing is underway :)
10-14-2009, 03:42 PM
Linuxfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Thanks Shazza :)
Apogee XT review is delayed due to the Gigabyte compatibility issue (I use a Gigabyte board). Fortunately the problem was rectified quickly by Swiftech and I have a new base here already and testing is underway :)

I've got to give it to Swiftech, their customer support is the best!
Got a GTZ block a week ago and one of the mounting screws was too small for the threads. They got right on it and sent me a new backplate and thumbscrew after I contacted them! :up:
10-14-2009, 11:07 PM
scamps

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Thanks Shazza :)

Apogee XT review is delayed due to the Gigabyte compatibility issue (I use a Gigabyte board). Fortunately the problem was rectified quickly by Swiftech and I have a new base here already and testing is underway :)

Could you please post a pic of "old" and "new" base plate?
10-14-2009, 11:11 PM
Vapor

Swiftech's renders:
http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...%20revised.jpg
10-15-2009, 02:05 AM
scamps

Thank you! I´ve got a GB (X58 Extreme), too :rolleyes:

... and already had same problem with the Heatkiller (where I had to grind the edges)
10-16-2009, 12:40 AM
woffen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Thanks Shazza :)

Apogee XT review is delayed due to the Gigabyte compatibility issue (I use a Gigabyte board). Fortunately the problem was rectified quickly by Swiftech and I have a new base here already and testing is underway :)

Will you have any results this weekend? Just changed my order from a HK 3.0 to a Swiftech XT so eagerly waiting to see the results:)

Thanks btw for all your testing Vapor:up:
10-20-2009, 05:14 PM
Vapor

Apogee XT review is live! Working on the forum version now :)

Results are already updated in this thread, and somehow the Sapphire Rev.A results snuck in there too :lol:
10-20-2009, 10:22 PM
Salamndar

Thx Vapor for you amazing work as always! :up:
10-20-2009, 10:37 PM
Mech0z

Thats one restrictive block :o makes you wonder if the HK will beat it with a lower pressure pumps? Like the EK or XSPC res pumps.
10-20-2009, 10:41 PM
Vapor
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mech0z

Thats one restrictive block :o makes you wonder if the HK will beat it with a lower pressure pumps? Like the EK or XSPC res pumps.

The XT actually pulls away at low pumping power...quite a bit too. It's the most resilient block I've tested so far to reduced pumping power (the Sapphire Rev.A is the 2nd most resilient).

Look at the left end of this chart:
http://vapor.skinneelabs.com/i7/Roun...sults25WEP.png
- Very High Pumping Power: All three MCP355 pumps and the D5 are on at full speed--this has a very similar PQ curve to a pair of RD-30s at 20V.
- High Pumping Power: Two MCP355s with EK V2 tops are on at full speed. The other two pumps are off.
- Medium High Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at full speed. The other three pumps are off.
- Medium Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at full speed and setting 5. The other three pumps are off.
- Low Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at minimum speed (~7.7V, ~2450RPM). The other three pumps are off.
- Very Low Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at minimum speed--setting 1. The other three pumps are off.
10-21-2009, 08:39 AM
Manicdan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor

The XT actually pulls away at low pumping power...quite a bit too. It's the most resilient block I've tested so far to reduced pumping power (the Sapphire Rev.A is the 2nd most resilient).

Very High Pumping Power: All three MCP355 pumps and the D5 are on at full speed--this has a very similar PQ curve to a pair of RD-30s at 20V.
High Pumping Power: Two MCP355s with EK V2 tops are on at full speed. The other two pumps are off.
Medium High Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at full speed. The other three pumps are off.
Medium Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at full speed and setting 5. The other three pumps are off.
Low Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at minimum speed (~7.7V, ~2450RPM). The other three pumps are off.
Very Low Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at minimum speed--setting 1. The other three pumps are off.
dude Medium is what most of us have for high speed, thats nuts. i run mine at setting 3-4 to lower power consumption and deal with the extra .5C gains
10-21-2009, 08:49 AM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0Pe

do you have results from the full copper version of the heatkiller also? :) or did i miss it:D

the XT is a sexy block IMO. glad to see it performing so well compared to the LC version of the heatkiller. from what i´ve seen other places it doesnt beat the full copper version though:/ but 1c difference isnt anything i would choose a block for lol

Copper top tests are in the planning stages for the HK and the Supreme. Nothing final yet, but after seeing the metal top help the GTZ, I figure it's worth a few hours of my time and the extra cost to pick up those parts to see if there's any gain for those two blocks :)

The XT is unequivocally better than the HK3.0 LT (the HK3.0 LC isn't in the same league...different price points and a couple of degrees worse [+ the secondary deficiencies of the HKs]) and I'm guessing it will be for the HK3.0 Cu as well. But that's just a guess at this point :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manicdan

dude Medium is what most of us have for high speed, thats nuts. i run mine at setting 3-4 to lower power consumption and deal with the extra .5C gains

A D5 at 3 is really more like my "low" setting actually :eek:

Maybe I have misnamed my pumping power settings...all I know is that at the last second before posting my first installment of this roundup, I renamed "Insane" to "Very High." All things considered, maybe I should have slid the names up one notch :stick:
10-21-2009, 02:13 PM
Stealth42o

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0Pe

1c difference isnt anything i would choose a block for lol

I would. I could care less how it looks. Ascetics comes in a far second to performance.
11-05-2009, 08:50 PM
Vapor

All updated!

Trimmed this thread's results down a bit and am working on advanced overall comparison that will include the results of all the modded versions of the blocks (have more coming up). Also included will be best mount comparisons, mounting repeatability analysis, and a mathematical look at flow and pump dependence.

It might be a little overwhelming :lol:
11-06-2009, 04:27 AM
Martinm210

Awesome!

I really like the pump power chart, that puts everything on the level in a meaningful way general users should understand. Not sure you can or want do this, but maybe even a simple additional shorthand descriptor under the pumping levels like this might curb some misunderstandings of pumping power(one persons high is another's low, etc.):

Very Low
(D5 Set.1)

Low
(DDC3.2+Top@7.7V)

Medium
(D5 Set.5)

Medium High
(DDC3.2+Top)

High
(2xDDC3.2+Top)

Freaking NUTS!:shock2:
(3xDDC3.2+Top+D5 Set.5)

You might also make a note about your stronger than typical radiator/fan setup so people with a unlimited budgets don't forget about heat dump and start mixing the NUTS!:D level pumping powers with less than compensating radiators setups.

Glad to see they are still making small but incremental advancing improvements. Thanks for all the insane amount of work I'm sure this took:clap::clap:
11-06-2009, 07:35 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

Awesome!

I really like the pump power chart, that puts everything on the level in a meaningful way general users should understand. Not sure you can or want do this, but maybe even a simple additional shorthand descriptor under the pumping levels like this might curb some misunderstandings of pumping power(one persons high is another's low, etc.):

Very Low
(D5 Set.1)

Low
(DDC3.2+Top@7.7V)

Medium
(D5 Set.5)

Medium High
(DDC3.2+Top)

High
(2xDDC3.2+Top)

Freaking NUTS!:shock2:
(3xDDC3.2+Top+D5 Set.5)

I played with some labeling like that, but in my initial implementation, it was too busy.

There were other flaws with that charting too....use of 2nd hand pressure drop data, no idea of the actual wattage of the CPU (I should try your calorimeter/bucket test when I get a chance), and a disambiguation of charted data to "real world" data. I try to include the written table with every (group of) instance(s) of the chart, but I agree I need something in the chart itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

You might also make a note about your stronger than typical radiator/fan setup so people with a unlimited budgets don't forget about heat dump and start mixing the NUTS!:D level pumping powers with less than compensating radiators setups.

Glad to see they are still making small but incremental advancing improvements. Thanks for all the insane amount of work I'm sure this took:clap::clap:

I kind of already do that...in the full collection of results, I show what temperatures are for core vs. water (what's posted in the first post), core vs. air and for core vs. air (with 1/3rd the radiator ability of mine). Here's a screenshot from my skinneelabs write-up:
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/751/capturewm.png

And yeah, this has taken a lot of work....I'm dreading the Fuzion V2 and the alphacools (their 3 main blocks use identical bases but some have purported quality issues, so I'm going to test all the bases on all the blocks, so it's really going to be 9 blocks in actuality).

And if you think my 4 pump setup is "Freaking NUTS:shock2:" then Testbed 3.0 will probably blow your mind :D
(my Dwyer RMC-144 maxes out at 7GPM, I don't feel like I'm getting money's worth right now ;))

Anyway, thanks for stopping by Martin, always great to see you around these parts :)
11-06-2009, 11:35 PM
WaterFlex

Wow, Vapor! You do a great job! Swiftech XT looks like the best WB on market :up:
11-06-2009, 11:43 PM
WaterFlex

VAPOR, can u get this one?
Never heard about it/
11-06-2009, 11:51 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterFlex

VAPOR, can u get this one?
Never heard about it/

Performs identically to this one: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/heatkillerlt775.html

Finished my HK3.0 + Copper top testing two nights ago and I can say that with absolute certainty. Write-up will be done in the next week or so, have to get testing done on a couple other blocks in that bunch, "Heatkiller and EK Supreme Revisted: Metal Tops and Modifying the EK Supreme"
11-07-2009, 01:48 PM
JoeBar

^^

I sense better results than HK 3.0 LT... :)
11-07-2009, 02:05 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeBar

^^

I sense better results than HK 3.0 LT... :)

For which part? :p:
11-07-2009, 02:08 PM
JoeBar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

For which part? :p:

Stop teasing and get down writing the review... :D
11-07-2009, 02:10 PM
Vapor

Can't write it until I have all the data :lol:

I will say that using only EK parts + silicone, the HK3.0 and the XT were beat. Unfortunately the mod isn't nearly as easy as the first two, which were just 1mm layers of silicone on a flat surface.
11-07-2009, 02:17 PM
JoeBar

I'm more interested in the HK 3.0 cooper vs LT, unmodded results. After GTZ vs GTZ SE review i would like to know if cooper tops tend to produce better results than POM ones...
11-07-2009, 02:18 PM
Vapor

It beat the HK3.0LT by .03C :eh:
11-07-2009, 02:23 PM
JoeBar

Insignificant difference. Thanks for sharing. Waiting for your review... :)
11-07-2009, 02:24 PM
bentleya

Great work Vapour, was a great read.
11-07-2009, 02:44 PM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

It beat the HK3.0LT by .03C :eh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeBar

Insignificant difference. Thanks for sharing. Waiting for your review... :)

Yup, exactly what has been said numerous times. :up:
11-08-2009, 12:05 PM
Gomnadz

Thanks for the testing Vapor!
Looking at getting a new water block in a month or two and all this info will make it easier to pick one up! :)
11-08-2009, 10:22 PM
thaw

*edit* found solution

http://www.swiftnets.com/apogee%20xt%20revision.html
11-11-2009, 04:57 AM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

I played with some labeling like that, but in my initial implementation, it was too busy.

There were other flaws with that charting too....use of 2nd hand pressure drop data, no idea of the actual wattage of the CPU (I should try your calorimeter/bucket test when I get a chance), and a disambiguation of charted data to "real world" data. I try to include the written table with every (group of) instance(s) of the chart, but I agree I need something in the chart itself.
I kind of already do that...in the full collection of results, I show what temperatures are for core vs. water (what's posted in the first post), core vs. air and for core vs. air (with 1/3rd the radiator ability of mine). Here's a screenshot from my skinneelabs write-up:
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/751/capturewm.png

And yeah, this has taken a lot of work....I'm dreading the Fuzion V2 and the alphacools (their 3 main blocks use identical bases but some have purported quality issues, so I'm going to test all the bases on all the blocks, so it's really going to be 9 blocks in actuality).

And if you think my 4 pump setup is "Freaking NUTS:shock2:" then Testbed 3.0 will probably blow your mind :D
(my Dwyer RMC-144 maxes out at 7GPM, I don't feel like I'm getting money's worth right now ;))

Anyway, thanks for stopping by Martin, always great to see you around these parts :)

Ahh...I see.

That reduced raidator capacity chart is perfect!

If most users are running a single radiator setup, that's probably the ideal bottom line chart.

That's really interesting. For anyone running a single triple radiator, the DDC with top (Medium High) is pretty much the optimal amount of pumping power across nearly all of the blocks.:up:

I guess I'll leave my one spare DDC a spare in the parts box then..

Thanks for the work on this, I especially appreciate the extra level in vetting out the pumping power variable. I know it adds 5X the work to an already exhausting scope of work, but it answers alot of previously unknown and debated areas that I was always curious about myself.:yepp:

Thanks!!:toast:
11-11-2009, 05:53 PM
TheScavenger

Wow...the XT is very compelling.
12-27-2009, 01:15 AM
Leeghoofd

Great work Vapor ! big kuddos ! Getting great results too here on the XT on my single pump setup.
12-27-2009, 04:42 AM
RCG_Bex

No go grab an EK Supreme and add it to the charts!

~Bex
12-27-2009, 07:33 AM
Tomasis

Bex, Supreme HF!! Supreme with some mods is able to beat HT3.0 and Xt according to Vapor. Im curious about HF.. i might leaning for it
12-27-2009, 08:37 AM
bundymania

yep, i have the EK Supreme HF here and start testing it - it performs like the HK 3.0 Copper, only the Apogee XT is slightly better
01-08-2010, 04:44 AM
kInOzAwA

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundymania

yep, i have the EK Supreme HF here and start testing it - it performs like the HK 3.0 Copper, only the Apogee XT is slightly better

do you have any test data/review on a new EK supreme HF vs Swiftech XT vs HK 3.0 Copper?
01-08-2010, 05:16 AM
bundymania

yes :) contact me via pn or pls wait a few days for the new chart...
01-08-2010, 08:21 AM
scamps

And once again: HF made it
http://www.awardfabrik.de/kuhlung-wa...-hf-plexi.html
01-08-2010, 03:24 PM
Gomnadz

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundymania

pls wait a few days for the new chart...

ok, I will wait! :)
01-08-2010, 05:36 PM
Main

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamps

And once again: HF made it
http://www.awardfabrik.de/kuhlung-wa...-hf-plexi.html

google translate Please take note that a loop with better high flow components than awardfabrik.de might produce better results, I don't know this of course at this time- just mention it :)

Looking good... guess I have mine sometimes next week :)
With 2xD5, Feser Monsta and BP's all the way I think I'm gonna give Supreme HF enough flow and pressure :)

And as far as I know EK have never had such quality issues as we see Swiftech have with the XT - buying a XT and not having quality issues seems to be a lottery. I sort of feel sorry for Swiftech nowadays - they are? my favourite wc producer - but I don't really know any more now....
01-09-2010, 12:25 AM
ahmad

Vapor, I have got a question: In your review the difference between the Sapphire A and the HK is a good 3-4°C. In HESmelaugh's review, difference is about 1°C.

Maybe you had a faulty unit or an engineering sample or something else? skewed the results. I am aware differences between mounts can vary, but I can't find flaws in either of your methodologies.

Help this noob understand! Thanks.

EDIT: One more thing.. In your full round up, I see this statement

Quote:

Here is a pretty fun result...though neither block is great thermally, the Sapphire Rev.A is amazingly low restriction. I broke 4GPM with my pump setup, and over 2GPM with just my 'normal' setup. The Sapphire Rev.A is also the second most low-flow resilient block I've tested so far (behind only the Apogee XT)

Your chart in the first post and indeed in that review do not indicate this. Is this a typo or just old data?
01-10-2010, 04:27 AM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamps

And once again: HF made it
http://www.awardfabrik.de/kuhlung-wa...-hf-plexi.html

:rofl:

Not even close to the quality of testing done in the OP. How many mounts, how many sensors?
01-10-2010, 01:05 PM
Leeghoofd

One thing I don't graps in fact in the AF review, why do you loose warrranty if you open the block ? Why include different jet plates if you aren't allowed to change them ?

For the testing Skinnee, I'm talking about my own conducted tests at the shrimps : I prefer to test the blocks in a real life setup that I would use daily ( read one pump one rad setup), take into account that european loops differ a lot from the USA ones... far less flow, thinner tubing etc... you can remount 10 times and get 10 times slightly different results... some take the average output, some take the best score... to each tester his own method... but yours and vapor's work is amasing, very very thorough... but I really don't have time to test it all as other hardware piles up otherwise on my doorstep...
01-10-2010, 07:16 PM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

One thing I don't graps in fact in the AF review, why do you loose warrranty if you open the block ? Why include different jet plates if you aren't allowed to change them ?

That stood out to me as well... Eddy can you clarify if openning the block voids warranty? :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

For the testing Skinnee, I'm talking about my own conducted tests at the shrimps : I prefer to test the blocks in a real life setup that I would use daily ( read one pump one rad setup), take into account that european loops differ a lot from the USA ones... far less flow, thinner tubing etc... you can remount 10 times and get 10 times slightly different results... some take the average output, some take the best score... to each tester his own method... but yours and vapor's work is amasing, very very thorough... but I really don't have time to test it all as other hardware piles up otherwise on my doorstep...

Agreed, and the variety of test methods gives us water heads a lot of information to look over. Scamps and I exchanged some PM's and it became clear my post was not up to its usual standards (Can I blame lack of sleep due to CES? :p:).

My intent was only to have people look over the testing methodology and procedures and take that into account when reading different reviews. I know that is asking a lot due to various levels of understanding and knowledge amongst members of the community. Leegfhold, your testing is solid and the results between the our benches/test setups have always fallen in line in the past. There has been data released by other high profile sites previously that myself and some other testers have not been able to replicate no matter how hard we try. When we run into those situations, it ends up taking more time trying to explain why results conflict than the actual testing and write up... and most of the time, we'll never know exactly why. However, that still doesn't change the fact that we have conflicting results.

I completely agree on the time issue, and that is where my post originated. The testing and work involved never slows down or becomes less, and time away from the bench to deal with conflicting results is something we just shouldn't have to deal with since we (I include you in "we" Leeghoofd) hold our testing to such a high standard.

:toast:
01-10-2010, 07:48 PM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

One thing I don't graps in fact in the AF review, why do you loose warrranty if you open the block ? Why include different jet plates if you aren't allowed to change them ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnee

That stood out to me as well... Eddy can you clarify if openning the block voids warranty? :shrug:

:slap:

Um,

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=147
01-10-2010, 09:11 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnee

(Can I blame lack of sleep due to CES? :p:).

Only 1 night was my fault :wasntme:

But you know it was well worth staying up with me.

:rofl:
01-11-2010, 03:11 AM
Leeghoofd

Thx waterlogged, that's one more thing that's cleared up :)
01-11-2010, 05:16 AM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

:slap:

Um,

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=147

:shakes:

I'm done posting until I get back home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Only 1 night was my fault :wasntme:

But you know it was well worth staying up with me.

:rofl:

I haven't gone to bed until 5:00AM since Thursday... I just got done playing penny slots with a group of folks for 8 hours. I haven't had this much fun in years. :D
03-31-2010, 12:44 PM
MrDiaz

Can you update the graphs to reflect the new EK HF blocks?
08-23-2010, 03:18 AM
Alexandr0s

Just thought I'd let you know I can't see the graphs in the first post anymore.
08-23-2010, 05:31 AM
WaterFlex

same here
08-23-2010, 07:03 AM
Eddy_EK

Warranty void sticker is only for Sealing warranty.
It only proves that the block was tested for leaking up to 2bar pressure.
If the block is open customer just cant claim warranty because of the leaking, the warranty on material and machining still remain.
08-23-2010, 08:23 AM
Church

Eddy_EK: IIRC this question been asked many times (and you answered many times) and many still have assumption of "never open/never remove sticker or warranty will be lost" .. it almost asks for it to be said with BIGLETTERS in block instructions. :)
08-23-2010, 10:11 AM
Eddy_EK

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchy

Eddy_EK: IIRC this question been asked many times (and you answered many times) and many still have assumption of "never open/never remove sticker or warranty will be lost" .. it almost asks for it to be said with BIGLETTERS in block instructions. :)

I agree, Will do something in that direction!
08-23-2010, 02:43 PM
Church

Eddy: imho it can be done even simplier. Have there been any rma returns at all for these waterblocks due to leaking? If not - maybe it's simplier for products where dissassembling is very possible (read - cpu blocks for cleaning/jet plate change) to put sticker not on the side but on top of block. As in sticker is on - means block is tested, and it's enough. Or even remove sticker alltogether, just print on manual/instructions about block been tested. = No more stupid questions again and again. :)

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