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What do you guy think? :up: :down:
The blocks mount to the bottom of the DDC and provide mounting for a 60mm fan.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...06/ddcsink.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...6/DSC00438.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...6/DSC00433.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...6/DSC00434.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...6/DSC00431.jpg
I like it...add some rubber grommets to the fan mount, and you've got something pretty nice. Would be better if you had a way to make that work with the UN brackets....
Extremely innovative, I love it!
While the craftsmanship looks amazing, I just can't help but think this heatsink will do very little to actually cool the plastic bottom of the DDC... Don't get me wrong, people will likely still buy it, just cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathWalking
I am working on a bracket that uses this base.
Where does your DDC get hot? The bottom is about as hot as the sides, on mine...Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bei Fei
Useful for those with hot-running DDCs. Mine is only lukewarm at most.
just slap some TIM on that heatsink and screw it on your pump, THat oughta work to drop your temps for those Overclocking your DDC's! :rofl:
Seriously though great looking design!
It's good workmanship and such so grats on that, Personally I have never seen the need to cool a DDC actively, just bolting it to the case with the stock rubber grommets has always been sufficient for me....
Where do I buy yer stock at ?
Uhh , . . .nice . . .view from inside?
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2...eatsinkrl1.jpg
Yup I'm with you on this. Plastic doesn't transfer heat for jack.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
just a thought/question:
How can a DDC have overheating problems when it is being watercooled just like everything else in the loop..??? I would assume most of the motor heat transfers through the metal in the water chamber and not outwards throught the plastic.
I feel like DDC cooling is a myth... :2cents:
like he said .. heat on plastic may cool down .. but that doesnt mean that the heat inside the motor may reduceQuote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
it's a thought .. but have anyone created a metal enclosure to replace the plastic one for DDC? that'll be most useful :)
Depending on pump and location, they do get hot.
The sink will keep the plastic cold, so you'll get some transfer.
And my DDC's get hot.
It also depends on how restrictive your loop is and how much more work your DDC's are doing.
And your suposed to secure it via thermal tape.
Even if the pump isn't running that hot, the heat you get from the pump to the air, the less is in the water.
It's really nice work, but like someone else said, maybe just a good fan mounting bracket would do the job too.
...this is what happens when drawing relations between cause and effect goes horribly wrong... :shakes:
Nice piece of work, though :)
The heat transfer from the plastic base to the HS would be pretty poor as most of you pointed out, but just as NaeKuh, my DDC-2 scorches. (My DDC loop is restrictive as hell too - Fuzion w/ 3.5 injector)
the more restrictive the loop is the cooler centifugal pumps will run. FYIQuote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Plastic doesnt transfer heat(poor heat conductor/insulator for currrent) but how come the plastic at the bottom of the ddc feels hot ?
This show thermal equilibrium still applies regardless of the material properties ?
Anyway my ddc2 quite hot and it did stop randomly few times before which catch my nerves.
Hmm odd. Mine is far from restrictive and it runs cool as well. Not complaining of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
hmm. interesting piece of info. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
I don't get it. Wouldn't more restriction mean that there is more resistance on the motor which would be transformed into heat energy? I'm no wizz on these things so I'm missing an important concept or something isn't right.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
I think your right,Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
conservation of energy here goes like this 18 W into the setup I that wattage goes into Movement of the water M --- Noise N --- Heat H
that means I = M + N + H
if M is a lower amount of energy then more energy goes to H
I guess the fact that the motor itself isn't spinning as fast is more important.
But when you corrected him, I think he put that in there because he knows it: read more like - "My DDC loop is restrictive as hell, too" (meaning, what gives?, it shouldn't run hot).
get this if yer running hot as heat kills mine is running cool & is non-restrive & out in the open air ... but my 2 New ddc's on my torrent build will be in the bottom of the case & this will help keep them cool
Interesting idea...
I've never seen the inside of a DDC, but what about machining an entire BOTTOM for one? Re-do whatever holds the motor/PCB, everything...
+1:up:. Those are the parts with the most friction = heat...Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
I don't think it'd be easy, but if Bei Fei went from idea to final product without even asking us, then it's probably not a big deal for him...
I just don't know if the PCB is fixed to the plastic molding or anything. And you might need to use a layer of electrical tape or something to not get it to short out. But in an aluminum casing, WITH the fan and/or fins, that would be something. I think you could nearly skip the fan with proper fins and mounting system.
Ha, and imagine if someone makes a bottom... then it'd be assumed that when you buy a DDC, the bottom AND top should go. You're just keeping the guts, the pump would be EXPENSIVE to do 'right'!
I like the idea. Can't say how useful it would be in the end, but my DDC's get hot as hell and with some thermal paste/tape between the pump and the heatsink, some of the heat must get removed.
Test bench has a D12SH-12 dedicated to cooling my DDC, the little guy is quite dedicated to his purpose in life. :D
No, I don't know all that much about motors, but as I understand it...it's the breaking of the motor from spinning too fast that causes more power consumption and heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
Pumps always seem to produce more and more heat the lower the restriction and the higher the flow rate:
Dotted lines below are power consumption vs. flow rate, higher flow rate = higher power consumption
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...-PumpCompa.png
It goes against common sense in thinking in terms of resistance against the motor, but apparently electric motors and power consumption is more affected by the braking effect of spinning faster.
I don't really understand it myself, but Scott is correct, they have all measured that way for every pump I've tested and measured power consumption on. There is other energy at hand like the water horsepower and heat generated by pressure drop within the system, but when talking purely power consumption by the pump...it is always higher with lower restriction. This little effect even showed up in the last waterblock shootout, the really low restriction blocks had about .1C higher water temperatures than the high restriction blocks. Not much to measure there, but consistent in this effect.
Electric motors are weird that way...
Anyhow, back on topic. I don't know that the heat is really an issue for the pumps or not, but I've never really liked how hot the DDCs get in comparison to the D5s. Those heatsinks look nice!
Cheers for the graph and for the explanation. I actually sort of get it now :D
would it be safe a simple summation:
it would heat up faster cause it pumps faster/rotates faster without restriction
but with restriction the pump won't be able to pump faster/thus not producing more heat than necessary
OP & Naekuh, with this DDC sink, i think you take out the bottom compartment of a ddc pump and attached with thermal pad/tape on the circuit board proper? so better heat transfer without the plastic in between right?
I believe most of the heat comes from the electronics driving the motor which does not get cooled by the waterQuote:
Originally Posted by FrostyPanda
So I guess mine must be a special pump - low restriction, high flow rate ( >2gpm), no direct airflow, and it still stays pretty cool :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Nice idea but I don't really need it. I created a DDC mount which install in a 3.5" bay and the pump elevated by rubber mounts and holes to install a 80mm fan if needed. This is placed in a area where a 120mm fan is blowing across so it stay cool.
My ddc3.2 is positioned behind my 120.2 radiator,so gets some airflow across it from that.
A full bottom piece would be interesting though.
No it's not fixed. The newer DDC 18w ones have bare sort of bottoms and the older ones have plastic casings on them when they're taken out. So yeah some electrical insulation in the case would be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
I think this is a great idea though, sure plastic doesn't transfer heat good but it gets hot anyway. Putting that heatsink + thermal tape on will help keep that side cool.
What is not consumed as energy is given off as heat. In the same respect if your home heat pump takes a 1/3hp motor for the condenser fan and you install a 1/2hp motor the unused (potential) energy is given off as heat into the motor. A properly sized motor to fan blade size/pitch setup will give off less heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
But a modded top with a greater inlet feed to the suction volute will increase the load (amps) drawn by the motor. This is why Laing decreased the inlet size of the newer DDC pumps. Marci said all along to leave the aftermarket tops alone and do not increase the inlet opening size.
nobody liked my goatse mod to the heatsink?
I think most everyone (except for me and you) thought that you meant a prison with the bars and the hands... but that's really our problem, not theirs.
Got my sinks,
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0126.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0127.jpg
uhh... too blingy... but it does what i need them to do.
I have a bunch of colored LED fans to attach to mine ;) All in a salute to Blingville, USA ;) Everybody board the Bling Bus . . .We all live in the yellow Blingaring . . . Who let the bling out . . who who who?Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
***DB is on cold medicine . . .ignore him
What is this bling you speak of? ROFL
"Theirs goes, 'Bling bling bling blingy bling-bling.' Ours goes, 'Bling bling bling bling blingy bling-bling.'"Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
-- Vanilla Ice, 1990aol music vanilla ice
http://cdn.digitalcity.com/ch_music/...-quote-180.jpg
My rig is the anti bling:
http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000725oz5.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000006wb7.jpg
Though i'm moving up a little on my next build:
http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000006oh7.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000006ww3.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000006ww3.jpg
I would like to see a replacement bottom for them as well could be pretty interesting to see what some people will come up with...
Go compression fittings bud . . .worm drives are fugly . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
You don't know me.... Worm drives are CHEAP. :rofl: I'm all about the anti-bling and cheap, ask NaeKuh. He'll explain gillbot pricing. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
Grew up in the Great Depression?Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
Nah, just poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
you mean poor now?Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
Arent we all a little poorer then we were 6 months ago?
I live compressions, But I also like the look of herbie clips, So I go with those if I want to save money. Love the clean appearance they both provide. Worm drives... Not so much! Very effective however.
Nah, i've always been poor. I'm married with children. :rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
Should change your name to Al Bundy ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
I have been poorer since getting into this modding thing . . .
I've been poorer since talking to NaeKuh, see sig for reference. :rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
I think NaeKuh has made alot of us feel poor!:rofl:
I started out with a cheap and simple air cooled dual core E6550 with a 7900GS until talking to him, now i'm up to HD3870 X-Fire, i45 and a watercooled quad. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Demthios
Yeah I know the feeling went from a AM2 X2 2.2ghz with a Ati 1950 Pro Compaq to a 8800GTS(G92) and a E8500 custom and water cooling them both. I plan on doing the whole system this next summer and going to the i7 Stuff and crossfire, and only if Nvidia doesn't step up and start supporting Multimonitor with SLI like ATI is with their crossfire.
That's one of the biggest drawbacks to SLI and why NaeKuh recommended I use Xfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demthios
Yup so Next year I'm switching back over to ATI...
I use them all ;) Built sponsored rigs for Nvidia and ATI/AMD at the same time . . .premiered them at the same event . . .and they knew about eachother . . .a few months before that I built a sponsored Intel rig and met the AMD/ATI guy then . . .both of the reps were friends pretty much . . .funny how these vendors roll . . .
is that Aluminium? :shock:
j/k
how about some test results :fact:
I like the idea Bei Fei and the design. :up: Its compact + optional fan mount.:up: It would be better if this would work with UN brackets mounting holes too. idk
You would have to compete against this. It does mounting+active cooling. link:http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...6&postcount=16 Its made by http://www.undesignsbrackets.com/products.html
ArmenianDave XS member & owner of (UN)Designs
Quote:
Originally Posted by absoluteczech
Wouldn't that be impractical? its not like the pumps had a lot of problems from overheating. A fan blowing on it would fix the problem. If you wanna make oneQuote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
:wth::spill: It does depending on how dense the plastic is. Memory chips still give out a lot of heat. Just thought about it. Doesn't ram memory modules have plastic? So ddc plastic bottoms should be ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparda
it does a good job.
b4 they would get really hot after 15 min under load.
Now its constant warm the entire time. With a fan its actually cold.
so yeah, it shows hot air is getting trapped under that plastic. If anything the plastic is acting as a buffer.
Im actually thinkn of sending bei one of my ddc's and having him make a blingy bottom out of it.
2 samples will go out soon.
1 to skinnee the other to slappy.
Interesting. Works well :) Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
I have never seen that D5 bracket before, who makes it?
http://undesignsbrackets.com/Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
ArmenianDave is an XS member.
edited my posts above^^^
Yes! Like I suggested, have him make an aluminum base (provided it doesn't come in contact with the liquid) and I might have to go buy a 3.2...Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
well the funny thing is, this is a totally custom part for me and only me. [never intended on retail]
No im not kidding, a few of my other friends ended up getting some too.
:T
This is one of those products where either you like it, and keep it, or you miss out on it forever...
Bei is not looking to get big, he wants to have fun in customization, and who better to pair up with? :rofl:
If a new bottom incorporated air passages in the bottom and sides then heat could be effectively pulled off of the motor. Convection would work but a fan forced "air over windings" would be most effective.
That's a better way of saying what I've been trying to say...
Makes sense... however, you would need to change the entire bottom casing.
Having bei mill a thick peice of alu like that into the shape would cost more then the pump itself. :rofl:
The plastic gets hot anyhow, whats a quick fix, a fan, but a fan looks really ugly by itself.
So the next solution is a sink.
The plastic is kept cooler there fore the internals must be kept cooler. Its a simple idea of physics.
Guys bei is done with my mosfet block.. :wasntme:
Purdy. When's the NDA lifted on the internals?
Edit: No more pictures?
andyc Good explanation.:yepp::toast: above post ^^^^:hm::x
:):up:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
The core temp inside the pump motor be higher? Could be very useful in high temp areas. Maybe this heatsink could be appropriate when the pump is put in confined spaces. So this would be usefull>> http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...6/DSC00431.jpg
decided to let bei show it off instead..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttocs
LOL... Sorry... :X
While it is true that the sink doesn't effectively shed heat, the plastic still gets hot so therefore it is drawing SOME heat away from the unit. Drawing some heat away through the plastic is still better than nothing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
I agree, it's still really creative and cool (superlol), I'm just saying there are plenty of people out there who WILL spend the price of the pump to get an entire bottom machined. Especially if it boosted reliability and lifetime. Then we just need to see Swiftech adopt aftermarket top and bottom ideas, and sell the pump "already good" for less money, since half of it isn't being thrown away... oh wait, thinking in dream-land again.
50,000 hours mean time before failure (MTBF) for DDC 3.2. So what temp does this hold true? 25c or 50c? Can anyone clarify? It would be nice if it would be high so there would be some headroom. So full aluminum bottom maybe a little :explode2: :explode:
:off:
Corsair HX1000W >> Guaranteed to deliver 1000W of continuous power at 50°C
http://www.corsair.com/products/hx1000/default.aspx<<See, Reliability at high temps. Do you guys like Corsair PSU's?
:off:
Yeah, Corsair PSUs are basically amazing. Well, the 620w is...
That 50*C part is one of the reasons I trusted the reliability, I didn't usually see truth in advertising when I was shopping for power supply.
@ mcoffey: Hmmmn... your explanation makes a lot of sense. I'd never thought of it that way before. If you wouldn't mind helping a noob flesh things out a bit - doesn't that reasoning also put the kibosh on any sort of cooling aimed at the external surface of the pump? I've read about guys making sure there's proper airflow around the pump, or even mount fans to blow on the pump (casing). Isn't that all the same principle? Thanks.
thanks:up:
You can improve on "enough" though. The more heat that comes off that motor means less in the loop. It would actually decrease temperatures, not sure if it would be noticeable or measurable though. Just to decrease the pump heat dump everyone complains about.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
Cooling of the motor windings is the best way to prolong the service life of the pump. If the windings are cooled enough the extra loading from an aftermarket top will have minimal impact on the pump.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
I don't understand what you are saying. The WATER is cooling the pump (primarily? at least SOME, that's what heat dump is). The more the AIR cools those windings, the less heat in the water, less heat to be dispersed by radiator, cooler water through blocks. It's the same principle as the waterblock and radiator.
EDIT or are you agreeing?
So what don't you understand? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
Motor windings and their insulation start breaking down with excessive heating. Once they deteriorate enough they will short the windings, killing the motor. If the windings remain cooled properly they will perform longer.
I just had trouble running through your sentence. You are agreeing with me. I thought you were saying that the water picking up the heat from the motor, albeit inefficiently, is enough to keep the pump in service. Just me, I guess.