[Windows 7] Hybrid SLI and CrossFire unstable, says Microsoft

Hybrid dual-graphics systems won’t be given native support in Windows 7.

Hybrid graphics systems might not be able to churn out the high-res frame rates demanded by enthusiast gamers, but both Nvidia and AMD have invested a lot of marketing bucks in the technology at the lower end of the scale. It turns out that Microsoft really doesn’t like hybrid graphics, though, to the point where the software company has branded the technologies ‘unstable’ in its Windows 7 documentation.

In Microsoft’s Guidelines for Graphics in Windows 7 document, which was released yesterday, Microsoft outlined its feelings about hybrid graphics, stating that ‘Windows 7 does not offer native support for hybrid graphics systems.’ Not only that, but Microsoft added the reason for the decision saying that hybrid graphics systems ‘can be unstable and provide a poor user experience,’ and that it would ‘strongly discourage system manufacturers from shipping such systems.’ Microsoft also added that ‘such systems require a reboot to switch between GPUs.’

Both Hybrid SLI and Hybrid CrossFire are low-end multi-graphics systems that allow you to complement an integrated graphics chip with a low-end discrete graphics card to boost the performance. It’s a feature that Nvidia touted as a potential advantage of its recently-announced GeForce 9 mGPU, which can get a boost from the addition of a GeForce 8400 GS or 8500 GT card.

Have you used a hybrid multi-graphics system? If so, did you find it unstable, or is Microsoft wrong here? Let us know your thoughts.

http://www.custompc.co.uk/images/fro..._107886_26.jpg

Source

As it works now I fully agree with MS. Even regular SLi/CF is a horror disaster.

im thinking......

MAYBE they could implement it but would have to be an extra chip on the card... I.e when it switches from 2d to 3d how it changes clocks.. (or is meant to) it reroutes it to the powerful a lot quicker chip etc...

make sense?

The deal with having to reboot is a huge issue. If it could the switch on the fly then I'd be all over this but right now MS is correct in their statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Even regular SLi/CF is a horror disaster.

---

?

I'd be very surprised if you got support on this position. Back at first release, yes, things were terrible. But I can't understand how you can say the same is true now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

?

I'd be very surprised if you got support on this position. Back at first release, yes, things were terrible. But I can't understand how you can say the same is true now.

---

Shuttering, missing profiles unless you are playing popular games and got the latest driver. You need to fix it yourself. Minimum FPS issues, multiscreen issues and so on and on and on....

We even seen one driver support CF/SLI in a game. The next newer driver messes it up and you are back to singlecard performance.

Hotfix this, hotfix that.

Do I even have to say Far Cry 2?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

The deal with having to reboot is a huge issue. If it could the switch on the fly then I'd be all over this but right now MS is correct in their statement.

---

The Asus N10J supposedly doesn't need to reboot to use the Hybrid SLi, Because it can use either on-board or it's dedicated GPU which is a 9300M. But ofcourse this information could be wrong. But the netbook itself is very new.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

You need to fix it yourself.

---

Ha! You speak like if that was possible :p:

i just installed windows 7 yesterday but not with sli/crossfire and didnt load no games on it yet but will maybe today. doesnt seem to much different from vista but i didnt do much just installed and looked at a few things and that was it. ill see what i come up with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Shuttering,

---

Never seen it, never heard of any of my friends with issues.

Quote:

---

missing profiles unless you are playing popular games and got the latest driver.

---

Never had any problems, never heard of any of my friends with issues.

Quote:

---

Minimum FPS issues

---

Eh?

Quote:

---

multiscreen issues

---

Only with SLi.

Quote:

---

We even seen one driver support CF/SLI in a game. The next newer driver messes it up and you are back to singlecard performance.

---

Do you have any examples? I've never had this happen to me.

Quote:

---

Do I even have to say Far Cry 2?

---

Actually, yes, you probably do - I've had this game since launch, playing it on both a 4870X2 and Crossfire 4870 512s, haven't had any issues.

The only game in which I've ever had multi-GPU issues is Crysis, and then only with Crossfire, and then only in the initial releases.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

The deal with having to reboot is a huge issue. If it could the switch on the fly then I'd be all over this but right now MS is correct in their statement.

---

QFT, plus it would be best if they would just add a crap gpu on the pcb of the higher end ones, that way you would also reduce the number of devices involved, also best to make the change automatically kinda like CnQ depending on load with the option to disable / enable it entirely in CCC and whatever nvidias equivalent is called.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

Never seen it, never heard of any of my friends with issues.
Never had any problems, never heard of any of my friends with issues.
Eh?
Only with SLi.
Do you have any examples? I've never had this happen to me.
Actually, yes, you probably do - I've had this game since launch, playing it on both a 4870X2 and Crossfire 4870 512s, haven't had any issues.

The only game in which I've ever had multi-GPU issues is Crysis, and then only with Crossfire, and then only in the initial releases.

---

Let me summon it up. Since you are in denial.

Can you tell me what the hotfix driver did for Far Cry 2 on crossfire cards? Yes, up to 98% improvement (Hint: missing profile).

No issue with multiscreen and crossfire? Tried OpenGL lately? Multiscreen with SLI? Hahaha...

Ofcourse you dont have problems. Because you dont relalize how many times you actually only play with 1 GPU. And if you only play the most popular games. Then ofcourse. All works! Just a shame they are like 0.1%.

I haven't had any real issues with SLI (7900, 8800 and 9800 GTX versions), I am a gamer and expect to be able to play my games correctly. As far as profiles go.. not a problem. Sure you get the occasional driver issues but overall for the last year or so I haven't had anything major to complain about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

No issue with multiscreen and crossfire? Tried OpenGL lately? Multiscreen with SLI? Hahaha...

---

Let me sum it up for you, I know and expect not to have multiscreen when using SLI, it's something I have known about since I got my first SLI rig and it's not an issue for me.

I can't comment for x-fire as I don't have it but as far as SLI goes I would never have a problem recommending it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Let me summon it up. Since you are in denial.

---

lulwut

Quote:

---

Can you tell me what the hotfix driver did for Far Cry 2 on crossfire cards? Yes, up to 98% improvement (Hint: missing profile).

---

Well, for the most part, it made my trees look normal. As for performance, I didn't bother measuring it - so either a single 4870 can run Far Cry 2 at playable rates with everything Ultra High and DX10 (without AA) or there was some scaling going on. If not, well, that's cool - if a hotfix driver can come out within a week of launch, I call that damn good on the part of ATi.

Quote:

---

No issue with multiscreen and crossfire? Tried OpenGL lately? Multiscreen with SLI? Hahaha...

---

Well, I use a 24" (as in sig) and a 22", and regularly fire up FFVII (PC), oldskool Unreal and Diablo II - haven't noticed any problems :shrug: And you obviously didn't pay close attention to my above post if you think I'm claiming multiscreen works with SLi -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

Only with SLi.

---

Quote:

---

Ofcourse you dont have problems. because you dont relalize how many times you actually noly play with 1 GPU.

---

This is really a moot point. If I'm running ancient games, I'll be getting max FPS with one GPU or two. I don't expect ATi and nVidia to be able to perfectly optimise or implement full multi-GPU support for games that were out well before the concept (in non-3DFX form).

Quote:

---

And if you only play the most popular games. Then ofcourse. All works! Just a shame they are like 0.1%.

---

Well, duh. What gets tested and Q&A'd? The games people play most often. Although I should note that at present I have installed AVP2, COD I, Deux Ex, Diablo I, Dark Forces, Dark Forces II - Jedi Knight, Quakes I & II, WolfET, Little Big Adventure I & II, Descent Freespace, Fallout I & II, Planescape Torment, Vampire the Masquerade - Redemption, etc etc, along with my Far Cry II and Crysis, and I'm still not having any issues. You're right, in most of these I'm probably not getting 100% GPU scaling, or probably even any scaling. But when a game engine is written back in the days of Voodoo cards, I can understand that it might be a little tricky to write a driver that can split the work across two GPUs.

Shintai, man. I think you just got owned.

Anyways, Anybody got links to the white papers talked about in this article, because I haven't heard of the graphical sheets out yet, I've seen the UI and interface sheets.

XP could technically only support 3 GPU's (not in reality I believe?). I believe Vista's limit is 4 GPU's.
2 GPU's are easier then 3 or 4 GPU's.
So 2 GPU's are not that big of a problem, but what about 4 to 8 GPU's? I bet it gives much more problems then the standard 2 GPU SLI or Crossfire rig.
I think this is a good choice from M$. It's better they work together with ATI and nVidia to solve the current problems and release the support in a service-pack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ownage

XP could technically only support 3 GPU's (not in reality I believe?). I believe Vista's limit is 4 GPU's.
2 GPU's are easier then 3 or 4 GPU's.
So 2 GPU's are not that big of a problem, but what about 4 to 8 GPU's? I bet it gives much more problems then the standard 2 GPU SLI or Crossfire rig.
I think this is a good choice from M$. It's better they work together with ATI and nVidia to solve the current problems and release the support in a service-pack.

---

I'm pretty sure it can support more then 4 in Vista, as long as the driver model was the same. I think it could be higher then 4. But if the display driver was different, it would be capped at 4. Let's say 1 Nvidia card, 1 ATi card, etc etc, since that would require different display drivers. But if you got 4 9800GX2s in your system for no reason at all, then running the same driver version, they should run fine.(remember 4 9800GX2 is what 8 9800GTX basiclly software wise)

I don't know exactly how it worked, but it was something like this: The OS has to be able to make a new thread for every GPU the driver reports to the OS. So if the driver says, Yo XP, I have 4 GPU's, can you hook them up?. Then XP says: Sorry mate, I can only make 3 threads for 3 GPU's, so you can only use 3.

For once I'm agreeing on something with Microsoft. I'd rather see the GPU manufacturers focusing as much as possible on powerful single GPU solutions instead as I don't like products that require driver updates or fixes to perform optimally and some not so hyped up games are left in the shadows etc. I want a solution that works great whatever game you fire up and no stuttering problems etc. So it's only good if Microsoft aren't that cooperative on this specific matter IMO until they can actually get hybrid Crossfire/SLI and dual GPU solutions working properly, then I'm all for it.

This is not good news at all. I was hoping that with new technologies like this notebooks will finally start to get decent graphics chips. That n10 from Asus seemed like a good start, although it does require a reboot as far as I know. But Microsoft wouldn't be doing something like this if the problems were not serious. Dialogue is the key here, I hope Nvidia and ATI gets this and start doing something about it...

I think we're losing sight of an important distinction here, between hybrid systems and regular Crossfire/SLi, using identical cards. MS is only saying here that they're not supporting hybrid solutions.

Right, I'm not so interested in hybrid solutions. When it comes to SLI/CF I think they're the single best thing since the voodoo2. 3dfx created the first multi gpu solutions and it's come around again for the same reason -- ppl like me and others demand more flexibility and more importantly, more power.

Since the hybrid theory involves more value type cards, I don't think it will be as missed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warboy

The Asus N10J supposedly doesn't need to reboot to use the Hybrid SLi, Because it can use either on-board or it's dedicated GPU which is a 9300M. But ofcourse this information could be wrong. But the netbook itself is very new.

---

Um... it's right, but I don't think that's hybrid SLI or CF or anything like that at all. It's just plainly 2 GPUs running alongside each other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RunawayPrisoner

Um... it's right, but I don't think that's hybrid SLI or CF or anything like that at all. It's just plainly 2 GPUs running alongside each other.

---

No, From what I heard. It's Hybrid SLi, And you can completely shut down the dedicated GPU when you don't need it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

As it works now I fully agree with MS. Even regular SLi/CF is a horror disaster.

---

+1, I spent $550 on a 4870x2 and I can't use crossfire in windowed mode - good grief.

I'd rather see more focus on dynamic clock & power switching than on hybrid SLI. Hybrid SLI just sounds like an excuse for the GPU companies to ship more GPUs.

I want this solution. Ob-board GPU to handle all desktop and HD based content rendering and shutdown the main single gpu. Then a game is fired up, the on-board is disabled and everything is transferred to the main gpu till the user exit's the game. If you can do this on a laptop, you can sure as hell do it on a desktop!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warboy

No, From what I heard. It's Hybrid SLi, And you can completely shut down the dedicated GPU when you don't need it.

---

Maybe its like the no issues at all with CF/SLI as you also heard :rolleyes:

You still need to change from 1 GPU to the other in Hybrid antyhing. Hence its just like 2 GPUs. So it doesnt matter if you can shut down the discrete GPU when you dont need it. Its still a GPU change and reboot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by halo112358

+1, I spent $550 on a 4870x2 and I can't use crossfire in windowed mode - good grief.

I'd rather see more focus on dynamic clock & power switching than on hybrid SLI. Hybrid SLI just sounds like an excuse for the GPU companies to ship more GPUs.

---

Ye. I play most of my games in windowed aswell if they can. EvE online etc.

I wonder with the software renderer on Larrabee. If you can change the treads of the renderer between Larrabee, i7 etc. Then it could be possible since its the same input.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Ye. I play most of my games in windowed aswell if they can. EvE online etc.

I wonder with the software renderer on Larrabee. If you can change the treads of the renderer between Larrabee, i7 etc. Then it could be possible since its the same input.

---

Yeah, I spent about an hour one night hacking around to get EvE running well in windowed mode. I needed a custom catalyst profile with only the first core clocked up and the second left at 500/300, then a bunch of scripting to launch everything seamlessly and switch profiles back to 500/300 on both cores when the ExeFile process ended. Bleh, not the best user experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by halo112358

Yeah, I spent about an hour one night hacking around to get EvE running well in windowed mode. I needed a custom catalyst profile with only the first core clocked up and the second left at 500/300, then a bunch of scripting to launch everything seamlessly and switch profiles back to 500/300 on both cores when the ExeFile process ended. Bleh, not the best user experience.

---

I do wonder if you can run 2 clients, one on each GPU. Since you can select what output you want inside EvE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

I do wonder if you can run 2 clients, one on each GPU. Since you can select what output you want inside EvE.

---

It hasn't ever let me select the second GPU, only the first. The second doesn't even show up in the GPU pulldown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Shuttering, missing profiles unless you are playing popular games and got the latest driver. You need to fix it yourself. Minimum FPS issues, multiscreen issues and so on and on and on....

We even seen one driver support CF/SLI in a game. The next newer driver messes it up and you are back to singlecard performance.

Hotfix this, hotfix that.

Do I even have to say Far Cry 2?

---

update your drivers..........
my 9800gx2 sli on a card murders that game.

msft is in the pockets of amd anyway,
that was proven last year with the "power together tour"
man i've never heard so much amd/msft propaganda in a four hour timespan in my life.
on the bright side i won 150 in s/w airlines tickets, and a am2 mobo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Let me summon it up. Since you are in denial.

Can you tell me what the hotfix driver did for Far Cry 2 on crossfire cards? Yes, up to 98% improvement (Hint: missing profile).

---

brand new game broski.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fragmasterMax

update your drivers..........
my 9800gx2 sli on a card murders that game.

msft is in the pockets of amd anyway,
that was proven last year with the "power together tour"
man i've never heard so much amd/msft propaganda in a four hour timespan in my life.
on the bright side i won 150 in s/w airlines tickets, and a am2 mobo

---

You play in windowed mode? Because then SLI doesnt work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaredpace

brand new game broski.

---

Ye, they fixed one. Forgot the 99 others. :clap:

And still required you to update your drivers. Not just install and play the game.

Never a fan of it anyway. Multi gpu on a single board I'll accept but this sli and crossfire business was always a rabid waste of money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ownage

XP could technically only support 3 GPU's (not in reality I believe?). I believe Vista's limit is 4 GPU's.
2 GPU's are easier then 3 or 4 GPU's.
So 2 GPU's are not that big of a problem, but what about 4 to 8 GPU's? I bet it gives much more problems then the standard 2 GPU SLI or Crossfire rig.
I think this is a good choice from M$. It's better they work together with ATI and nVidia to solve the current problems and release the support in a service-pack.

---

:confused: last I heard, XP could handle 7 monitors.. I know I've done 2 diff GPUs many a times.. may have done 3 cant quite remember.. next time i'm piecing a rig together & if I have 4+ diff GPUs lying around i'm gonna test :D :up:

I get a bsod at start up when windows loads using ati driver for w7.
using a 4870 in combination with a 4850 in crossfire.
Havent tried with vista driver since I dont know if they will work?

3DFX Voodoo 5 6000 is 4 GPU's and has been used in XP as far as I can remember.

I really do like how Microsoft is stepping up to the plate and doing things right rather than trying to please everyone with Windows 7... hopefully standard crossfire configs will work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Think

Never a fan of it anyway. Multi gpu on a single board I'll accept but this sli and crossfire business was always a rabid waste of money.

---

Honestly, the way they implement multigpu on one board is with a PCIe bridge chip. What you're really getting is a mini PCIe bus that's bridged on to your main PCIe bus, and the driver handles the crossfire from there. It's two graphics cards in smaller form factor, but it's still identical to standard crossfire or SLI as far as the driver is concerned.

This is why you have the same crossfire issues with a 4870x2 that you'd have with crossfired 4870's.

If I had an x38 or x48 motherboard I'd have popped for 2x 1gb 4870's instead of a 4870x2 - it's a lot easier to air cool 2 cards quietly (more surface area to work with) than one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warboy

Shintai, man. I think you just got owned.

Anyways, Anybody got links to the white papers talked about in this article, because I haven't heard of the graphical sheets out yet, I've seen the UI and interface sheets.

---

No, Shintai is correct. If you can't see the stutter/shutter it is because either SLI/CF is not working (so no chance to see the problem), or you are not stressing the GPUs enough to constrict inter-GPU bandwidth and cause frame drops, aka stuttering. This is not a case of one opinion over another. Stuttering is an inherent problem with Alternate Frame Rendering, and currently can only be compensated for by more brute GPU power.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

I do wonder if you can run 2 clients, one on each GPU. Since you can select what output you want inside EvE.

---

No you cannot, not with SLI or Crossfire enabled at least. With separate cards driving separate monitors without SLI or CF enabled, yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by halo112358

Yeah, I spent about an hour one night hacking around to get EvE running well in windowed mode. I needed a custom catalyst profile with only the first core clocked up and the second left at 500/300, then a bunch of scripting to launch everything seamlessly and switch profiles back to 500/300 on both cores when the ExeFile process ended. Bleh, not the best user experience.

---

I've never had a problem running Eve Online in windowed mode with SLI or Crossfire. Never even had to set any special settings. Not once, ever. I've had 3870 X2, 9800 GX2, 4870 CF, and 4870 X2. Not a single one of them presented any problems. No special settings in either. I always run dual clients, one at 1650x1050 and another at 1920x1080.

--Matt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattkosem

I've never had a problem running Eve Online in windowed mode with SLI or Crossfire. Never even had to set any special settings. Not once, ever. I've had 3870 X2, 9800 GX2, 4870 CF, and 4870 X2. Not a single one of them presented any problems. No special settings in either. I always run dual clients, one at 1650x1050 and another at 1920x1080.

---

You won't have problems getting the game to run in a window, but it won't use crossfire while windowed (nothing will). My issue was that I wanted to run my 4870x2 at 500/300 while I was on the desktop to keep power consumption low and ambient temps down, which worked fine, but it also meant that I'd be running at 500/300 while I ran windowed mode games....

In the end I had to script around it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by halo112358

You won't have problems getting the game to run in a window, but getting it won't use crossfire while windowed (nothing will). My issue was that I wanted to run my 4870x2 at 500/300 while I was on the desktop to keep power consumption low and ambient temps down, which worked fine, but it also meant that I'd be running at 500/300 while I ran windowed mode games....

In the end I had to script around it.

---

Hmm, That does indeed seem to be the case. My X2 does spin up the first gpu when running in a window though. The second one remains at the 2d clock, following your point about no CF in a window. The premium client has jaggies everywhere with or without FSAA, so I don't really run it on that game. I guess it is easy to see the performance degredation though, all you need to do is force on some FSAA. The slowdown is much more harsh than in games where CF is working properly.

I take back the part about having no problems. A single 4870 is more than anyone would ever need in that game anyways though, even with 3 clients I have no trouble.

--Matt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ownage

Hybrid dual-graphics systems won’t be given native support in Windows 7.

Hybrid graphics systems might not be able to churn out the high-res frame rates demanded by enthusiast gamers, but both Nvidia and AMD have invested a lot of marketing bucks in the technology at the lower end of the scale. It turns out that Microsoft really doesn’t like hybrid graphics, though, to the point where the software company has branded the technologies ‘unstable’ in its Windows 7 documentation.

In Microsoft’s Guidelines for Graphics in Windows 7 document, which was released yesterday, Microsoft outlined its feelings about hybrid graphics, stating that ‘Windows 7 does not offer native support for hybrid graphics systems.’ Not only that, but Microsoft added the reason for the decision saying that hybrid graphics systems ‘can be unstable and provide a poor user experience,’ and that it would ‘strongly discourage system manufacturers from shipping such systems.’ Microsoft also added that ‘such systems require a reboot to switch between GPUs.’

Both Hybrid SLI and Hybrid CrossFire are low-end multi-graphics systems that allow you to complement an integrated graphics chip with a low-end discrete graphics card to boost the performance. It’s a feature that Nvidia touted as a potential advantage of its recently-announced GeForce 9 mGPU, which can get a boost from the addition of a GeForce 8400 GS or 8500 GT card.

Have you used a hybrid multi-graphics system? If so, did you find it unstable, or is Microsoft wrong here? Let us know your thoughts.

http://www.custompc.co.uk/images/fro..._107886_26.jpg

Source

---

:rolleyes:

I have no idea why motherboard manufacturers are even worried about SLI/Crossfire compatability...

... I'd rather just pay $50 more, for a Mobo that had Lucid's Hydra chip, than any other solution. Why we aren't seeing enthusiast mobos with this technology is beyond me.




.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ownage

So 2 GPU's are not that big of a problem, but what about 4 to 8 GPU's? I bet it gives much more problems then the standard 2 GPU SLI or Crossfire rig.

---

It sure does. Only a small percentage of the world's population own their own power plant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vengance_01

I want this solution. Ob-board GPU to handle all desktop and HD based content rendering and shutdown the main single gpu. Then a game is fired up, the on-board is disabled and everything is transferred to the main gpu till the user exit's the game. If you can do this on a laptop, you can sure as hell do it on a desktop!

---

Microsoft does not mean that type of hybrid graphics, they are talking about the hybrid SLI/CFX in which you use a IGP in tandem with a low end discrete CPU. Like a 780G chipset with a 3450 running in crossfire next to it, just to boost performance a little. (pretty useless though, you can often get more performance by just spending $10 more on a more powerful card)
From what I gathered it seems that they are not talking about the switching between discrete and integrated to decrease power consumption whenever possible. There is also no real SLI or CFX involved in that switching and it can actually be done without restarting the system. It would be a shame if they would not support that kind of switching as it does have a lot of benefits to it, especially in notebooks but even in desktop PCs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattkosem

No you cannot, not with SLI or Crossfire enabled at least. With separate cards driving separate monitors without SLI or CF enabled, yes.



I've never had a problem running Eve Online in windowed mode with SLI or Crossfire. Never even had to set any special settings. Not once, ever. I've had 3870 X2, 9800 GX2, 4870 CF, and 4870 X2. Not a single one of them presented any problems. No special settings in either. I always run dual clients, one at 1650x1050 and another at 1920x1080.

--Matt

---

Could you have 2 individual outputs on a X2 card?

Are you sure SLI/CF is working?

I run 2 premium clients on a single non OC 8800GT on 2 24". One 1750*1100 and one 1880*1140. No lag etc. So you could be cheated even running one GPU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xoulz

:rolleyes:

I have no idea why motherboard manufacturers are even worried about SLI/Crossfire compatability...

... I'd rather just pay $50 more, for a Mobo that had Lucid's Hydra chip, than any other solution. Why we aren't seeing enthusiast mobos with this technology is beyond me.


.

---

+100! I want that chip on my next mobo. :up:
No need in worrying if it's got nforce this or crossfire that .

Yep, I agree with Microsoft on this, concerning nVidia and ATi. As for "Hydra chip" I need to see some practice that show his potential, on paper even nVidia/ATi solutions look great but in practice it's like a major marketing scam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Could you have 2 individual outputs on a X2 card?

---

No.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Are you sure SLI/CF is working?

I run 2 premium clients on a single non OC 8800GT on 2 24". One 1750*1100 and one 1880*1140. No lag etc. So you could be cheated even running one GPU.

---

Both answered in post 45

--Matt

Tried getting hybrid SLI to work with my current configuration but overall it was a disaster. Not only are there no driver options that can even detect the onboard chip correctly but I cannot POST past 205 FSB with it on (not to mention constant reboots at stock)

There is supposed to be some kind of software that is used to configure how your hybrid settings are set. Not only do I not see it available for download on nvidia's site but my MFGR doesnt have it either. Ntune doesnt have it nor does my standard driver options.

Unstable I think is far too kind; Epic Fail would be better. (atleast for nvidia)

Now as far as standard Xfire and SLI I think we have come a LONG way from where it was before. Crossfire is fully viable and I have had no issues with either it or SLI in the games I play. There are occasional annoyances but all of the issues are minor and if you're smart enough to setup a Xfire/SLI rig you'll be able to resolve the issue.

Multi-GPU for the average joe schmoe is pushing it as its not 100% idiot proof yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattkosem

Hmm, That does indeed seem to be the case. My X2 does spin up the first gpu when running in a window though. The second one remains at the 2d clock, following your point about no CF in a window. The premium client has jaggies everywhere with or without FSAA, so I don't really run it on that game. I guess it is easy to see the performance degredation though, all you need to do is force on some FSAA. The slowdown is much more harsh than in games where CF is working properly.

I take back the part about having no problems. A single 4870 is more than anyone would ever need in that game anyways though, even with 3 clients I have no trouble.

--Matt

---

IDK, I force 8xAA/16qAF and turn off all the performance optimizations when I play fullscreen. The game is pretty badly optimized for filtering and eye candy so it runs at a max of ~75fps _with_ 4870 crossfire, on a single card I can get it running as low as ~20-30fps with all the quality options forced on in the driver :D

If it's running windowed at the desktop speeds then meh, ~7-15fps. By contrast I could probably run 4 or 5 copies of the basic client without any issues, but I'm partial to eye candy.

Try forcing FSAA sometime (you have to rename ExeFile.exe to UT3.exe or Oblivion.exe), the performance hit with HDR enabled is pretty brutal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fragmasterMax

update your drivers..........
my 9800gx2 sli on a card murders that game.

msft is in the pockets of amd anyway,
that was proven last year with the "power together tour"
man i've never heard so much amd/msft propaganda in a four hour timespan in my life.
on the bright side i won 150 in s/w airlines tickets, and a am2 mobo

---

Um wtf does that have to do with anything? You're saying Microsoft is dissing Hybrid Crossfire, an AMD tech, because AMD told them to? Or it's AMD propaganda that hybrid crossfire is unstable and unreliable? Yeah sure... That makes a lot of sense

BTW, you're also saying MSFT a company with a market capitalisation of US$160 billion in the pockets of AMD a company with a market capitalisation of US$1.24 billion? Again you're surely making a lot of sense here...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 003

No, Shintai is correct. If you can't see the stutter/shutter it is because either SLI/CF is not working (so no chance to see the problem), or you are not stressing the GPUs enough to constrict inter-GPU bandwidth and cause frame drops, aka stuttering. This is not a case of one opinion over another. Stuttering is an inherent problem with Alternate Frame Rendering, and currently can only be compensated for by more brute GPU power.

---

Try replacing multi-GPU with single-GPU and the same thing happens!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xoulz

:rolleyes:

I have no idea why motherboard manufacturers are even worried about SLI/Crossfire compatability...

... I'd rather just pay $50 more, for a Mobo that had Lucid's Hydra chip, than any other solution. Why we aren't seeing enthusiast mobos with this technology is beyond me.




.

---

Because there is no proof that it even works.

My main problem with crossfire and sli was the low minimum framerate which causes horrable screen tearing and occasionally stuttering. Driver support is a pain as well. I don't find it to be worth the hassle. Ill stick with a single gpu for now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by halo112358

I needed a custom catalyst profile

---

You can do custom profiles? I thought this wasn't possible for catalyst. How did you do this and did you try changing profiles for other games?

It would be nice to run different profiles without having to rename the *.exe file.