Last one, My Q6600 CPU Waterblock Roundup Results

I still had this last bit of data to share before retiring from testing. I didn't get to all of them, but most. In spirit of minimizing the BS, here is primarily just the data with a few random thoughts at the end. Special thanks to Sidewinder, Swiftech, Danger Den, D-Tek, Enzotech, OCZ, XSPC, TFC, and NCIX, and Rick Cain/Niksub1 for providing the samples.

http://martin.skinneelabs.com/img/CP...k-Shootout.jpg

Thermal Test Specifications (for us testing geeks)

For thermal testing I decided to try and follow a 5 mount method of logging temperatures. Here are some of the specifics in my testing method:
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/img/Sw...-ThermTest.jpg

• Real World Full System Testing - Over time I developed a radiator testing bench that I've decided to incorporate into my CPU block testing setup. This gives me a full 8 air inlet sensors, 4 air outlet sensors, and two water sensors to much more precisely monitor everything. My testing occurs as close to the real world as possible, I just have a crap load of sensors on everything. I am testing on a processor, with a loading program, in a real world computer case, with a fixed pump, and a regular radiator setup. All of this helps include the little odd things that actually occur in a regular system.
• Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield Processor - Overclocked to 3600 MHz, 65nm, Vcore = 1.472 under load. Motherboard is a DFI Lanparty X48 LT with 4GB of Corsair Dominator memory with fan module. The northbridge and southbridge chips are both watercooled. Video card is an EVGA 8800GTX, also watercooled. Case is a Thermaltake Armor, position is horizontal for easy block mounting case cover left off.
• 5 separate TIM applications and mounts averaged - This is not common, but extremely important. It's not uncommon at all to see mounting variations as high as 2 degrees or more, so with only one mount, that error is 2 degrees. When you mount 5 times and average those results, your standard deviation is significantly lowered and the overall testing confidence improved. In addition multiple mounts serve as a means to validate data, because each test is carried out again and again, chances are if some variable is affecting results, it will show.
• Logging temperatures - After several iterations of a new testing method I finally landed on logging of temperatures for 1 hour. I then can simply start up the loading routine, and trigger on my two logging programs and walk away for an hour. I then come back and remove the first 10minutes for warmup time. The remaining 50minutes is then left to average out temperatures which are recorded every second over 18 active sensors plus 4 core temperatures. Logging is essential for higher resolution measurements. Our DTS core sensors are only resolved to 1C, however after logging that resolution out for 50 minutes of testing, that can be reduced significantly. In addition my ambient temperatures are held constant by an A/C system thermostat that actually makes the temperature swig up and down in a sawtooth like fashion over a 2C limit. Logging this sawtooth occurrence over a long period of time also levels out the ambient to a nicely resolved level of accuracy.
• Temperature Probes Deployed - I kept my sensors fairly basic, but I did run a few extra's just for interesting information. This includes a sensor for:
• 2 ea Water Out sensors (After radiator and before CPU block) Dallas DS18B20 Digital one-wire sensors, and CrystalFontz CFA-633
• 8 ea Air In Bottom (Bottom inlet side of radiator) Dallas DS18B20 Digital one-wire sensors, and CrystalFontz CFA-633
• 4 ea Air Out Top (Top out side of radiator) Dallas DS18B20 Digital one-wire sensors, and CrystalFontz CFA-633
• 4 ea Q6600 DTS sensor these were logged using Core Temp Beta Version 0.94. I chose this particular version because it stacks logged data cores in separate column which makes integrating into my crystalfontz data much easier.
• Crystal Fontz logging is accomplished through the use of their Cyrstalfonts 633 WinTest b1.9. Only special settings are turning off all packet debugger check boxes to avoid paging the processor.
• The Dallas DS18B20 Digital one-wire sensors that were used as noted above have a specified absolute accuracy of .5C with a .2C accuracy between 20 -30C temperature range. They also have resolution down to .0625C which is very good, and because they are digital they are not affected by the wiring or length of wire like thermocouples are.
• The CrystalFontz CFA-633 is an LCD with up to 32 channels of monitoring and logging capability. It logs temperatures of each channel on a one second interval, so over a 30 minute test, I'll have about 1,800 entries noting time and temperature of each channel. These are then averaged for a fairly accurate number.
• Pump - Laing DDC3.2 with XSPC Reservoir top. I think this pump represents the pumping power available to many users and gives a fair amount of strong pumping power. This top rated near the top in my pump top testing and is very powerful.
• Radiator - The Feser Company (TFC) 480 ER radiator with Yate loon D12SL12 medium speed fans at 12V with TFC shrouds in pull condition. This is an extremely powerful radiator and was purposely chosen because the smaller water/ambient deltas reach equilibrium fast and pressure drop for this radiator is minimal. This provided me very short warmup periods and ensured maximum pumping power for the CPU blocks being tested.
• TIM Material - While I really like the TIM consultants TC Grease 0098, I found the thicker consistency wasn't helping with mounting consistency and required user effort to seat the block down. For that reason I chose Artic Cooling MX-2, it's been very popular in the forums and preliminary testing showed to perform well, it's noted as non-curing, and more importantly is a thickness/consistency that more accurately represents most thermal compounds and easily applied and removed. I felt this was important to maintaining a higher level of repeatability. There was no cure time allowed for the compound (even though it's noted as a non curing compound). Testing was started immediately following block installation. TIM installation method is the thin line method.
• Hardware - These results only tested the "As Shipped" method that use the hardware included and provides users some evaluation and performance of what you get straight from the box unless noted with a backplate. During supreme testing round 2 I found that adding a backplate and using the same mounting pressure didn't result in any notable difference. So in effort of protecting my valuable motherboard, I used a Scythe backplate during those tests and they are indicated by a "Scythe" backplate notation on the results.
• Prime 95 Load - I used Prime 97, torture test, Custom, Min FTT 8K, Max FTT 8K, Run FFTs in place checked ON. This is an easy to use and constently loading program. It provided the most consistent loading I could find for quad cores.
• Lapped IHS - My Q6600 has been lapped flat down to 1200 grit to ensure a true and flat surface. The stock intel IHS can be very irregular, some are convex, some are concave, some are wavy, and some are fairly flat. Lapping a processor voids it's warranty, but it ensures a nice flat surface for optimal heat transfer. My particular processor has been lapped. A complete stock IHS may benefit more from a bowed block than my samples because it is flat.
• Fixed Ambient Temperature - My recent roundup of block testing brought forth that regardless of measuring water temperature you will in fact still incur testing error of the processor core temperatures if you allow ambient temperatures to fluctuate. I found on the order of .2 t .3C error for every degree in ambient difference, although it was too variable to pin down and appropriately correct for. In the end I decided on buying a window A/C unit that holds all testing to the same temperature. Ambient do go up and down as the thermostat kicks on and off, but the overall average temperature over a long logged test has been holding to less than .5C which is very good. I am running a Hair 8,000 BTU thermostatically controlled A/C unit in "Cool fan on at all times" to keep temperatures at 22C plus or minus about .5C on average over the length of the test.

Thermal Results
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/img/CP...kShootout1.png

As Tested Resulting Flow Rate
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/img/CP...kShootout2.png

Pressure Drop - Restriction
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/img/CP...kShootout3.png

Mounting Mechanism

Apogee GT - Bottoming screws ensures accurate/even pressure, Back-plate
Apogee GTZ - Bottoming screws ensures accurate/even pressure, Back-plate
Danger Den TDX - Standard springs/open thumb-nut
Danger Den MC-TDX - Standard springs/open thumb-nut
D-Tek Fuzion V1 - Standard springs/open thumb-nut, Back-plate
D-Tek Fuzion V2 - Bottoming screws ensures accurate/even pressure, Backplate
EK Supreme - Standard springs/open thumb-nut
Enzotech Saphire RevA - Bottoming nut ensures accurate/even pressure, Backplate
OCZ Hydroflow - Bottoming nut ensures accurate/even pressure, Back-plate
XSPC Delta V3 - Standard springs/open thumb-nut

Material

Apogee GT - Machined Copper Base, Cast Delrin Top
Apogee GTZ - Machined Copper Base, Machined Delrin Top
Danger Den TDX - Cast Copper Base, Laser Cut Acrylic or Brass Top
Danger Den MC-TDX - Cast Copper Base, Laser Cut Acrylic or Brass Top
D-Tek Fuzion V1 - Cast Copper Base, Cast Delrin Top
D-Tek Fuzion V2 - Cast Copper Base, Cast Delrin Top
EK Supreme - Machined Copper Base, Machined Delrin or Acrylic Top
Enzotech Saphire RevA - Forged Copper Base, Forged Copper Top, Plastic Cover
OCZ Hydroflow - Machined Copper Base, Nylon Top
XSPC Delta V3 - Machined Copper Base, Machined Delrin Top


RANDOM THOUGHTS
In the end for me, they all passed. They all cooled my Q6600 more than enough to run the overclock I was running. During the winter when not testing and running a wood stove, I can see up to 15C fluctuations in house ambient temperatures so 4C is really tight in that context. In addition with the mounting variations and limited DTS sensor resolution, the thermal results are still only good to roughly 1-2C so I can't help but feel many of the results are simply too close to conclude much of anything but that they did cool the processor down well enough. I was surprised how close the results are thermally, obviously we are coming to a barrier in thermal efficiency. More importantly these results only apply to this one processor, it would be different for dual core, or larger cores. Generally I think blocks that have very small center nozzles would do better from smaller processors and those with long spread-out type nozzles or distributed flow paths would do better with larger cores. Most people will likely see more gain by doubling up on their radiator capacity than changing out of CPU blocks. If the average radiator water/ambient delta is 10C, doubling the rads would be worth 5C which is greater than the difference between any block here. The differences are just pretty small...and frankly hard to even measure.

Also note the mounting mechanism differences. The old spring/open nut styles are not going to be as easy to use and ensure even mounting pressure as those that have some sort of bottoming nut or other design item that prevents the user from tightening one side or corner more than the others. Furthermore, some come with back-plates while others do not, you better plan on buying one for those that do not, it's essential in protecting your motherboard and a hidden cost.

Finally bowing and stepping do help with the last few bits of efficiency, although they also have some negatives. They work by increasing mounting pressure per unit area for the critical surface directly above the die. However they work against mounting consistency and are more difficult to mount because of this. Finally some may or may not be optimized or designed to cover larger or smaller cores. I like a small amount of bowing myself, it seems to work like camber in a bridge if nothing else and counter the flex of the block in high pressure applications.

Just one set of tests, under one set of conditions, using a lapped Q6600 processor. I make mistakes like anyone, your results may differ especially if it's any other type of processor.

Cheers!:toast:
Martin

:worship: Omg. Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :worship:

Keep this up on the forums, Please.

okey to everyone that laughed at me when i told them straight up the Supreme was the best.

I get my final laugh. :rofl:

Thank you martin for all your work, and thank you for proving once again, i was correct. :rofl:

okey leaving ego after this post promise!!!

I'm glad I went with the supreme. It seems strange the backplate got somewhat worse results with it. I wonder if the results would of been any different between the gtz and the supreme, if the cpu was not lapped.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

okey to everyone that laughed at me when i told them straight up the Supreme was the best.

I get my final laugh. :rofl:

Thank you martin for all your work, and thank you for proving once again, i was correct. :rofl:

okey leaving ego after this post promise!!!

---

Maybe to be the best they should work on their flow abit eh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

okey to everyone that laughed at me when i told them straight up the Supreme was the best.

I get my final laugh. :rofl:

Thank you martin for all your work, and thank you for proving once again, i was correct. :rofl:

okey leaving ego after this post promise!!!

---

WHen was supreme's crown ever contest? Since I've known about XS i've known it was (best single block chip with non-german flow)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2low4u

Maybe to be the best they should work on their flow abit eh?

---

uhhh...

then it wouldnt be an accelerator class block... and wouldnt be the best.... And you kill its flow even more with tighter and more focused accelerators, it does EVEN BETTER.

So therefore... what are you getting at?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bojamijams

WHen was supreme's crown ever contest? Since I've known about XS i've known it was (best single block chip with non-german flow)

---

dates back a long time ago during the fusion frenzy. Fusion best this, fusion best that.... Then i showed XS the supreme. Yes it was ME. More tweeking later, i told everyone, fusion is only best when you need low restriction.

<got laughed at more> no im being serious.... then i just gave up testing to public. :rofl:

Absolutely wonderful testing and data presentation!!!

Thank you for all of the long hours and hard work that went into this round of testing, we all appreciate it.

BTW, thanks for raising the bar even higher. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eddie3dfx

I'm glad I went with the supreme. It seems strange the backplate got somewhat worse results with it. I wonder if the results would of been any different between the gtz and the supreme, if the cpu was not lapped.

---

Two different Supreme blocks, two different GTZ blocks. There's also plenty of testing error to make it pretty much hard to say anything conclusive.

Anyhow, if I could emphasize one thing it would be don't trust the results anymore than about 2 degrees. The ups and downs in the mounts is a good indication just how much error there is.

75 mounts later was a painful lesson in reality that testing CPU blocks is really difficult to produce anything very conclusive using the processor DTS sensor.

And yes, my processor was lapped, a differently shaped IHS very well could produce a different result. At the same token no two IHS are shaped the same so you could again get two different results from two stock IHS processor.

It sucks, but it is what it is....not very precise.:shrug:

It was a good learning experience though, hope it helps some....
Thanks!
Martin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Two different Supreme blocks, two different GTZ blocks. There's also plenty of testing error to make it pretty much hard to say anything conclusive.

Anyhow, if I could emphasize one thing it would be don't trust the results anymore than about 2 degrees. The ups and downs in the mounts is a good indication just how much error there is.

75 mounts later was a painful lesson in reality that testing CPU blocks is really difficult to produce anything very conclusive using the processor DTS sensor.

And yes, my processor was lapped, a differently shaped IHS very well could produce a different result. At the same token no two IHS are shaped the same so you could again get two different results from two stock IHS processor.

It sucks, but it is what it is....not very precise.:shrug:

It was a good learning experience though, hope it helps some....
Thanks!
Martin

---

Within 1c is precise enough :up:
In a testing environment where there are so many different variables, you've done the best job that one can do.
I think when I see your data and I see other people's data, I can then get a better idea of what is the best.

excellent work.

Btw, my gigabyte p35 held my x3210 up at 3500mhz at 1.53v for 6 months before it blew. It's probably the best cpu to judge the performance of these blocks, since they require so much voltage.

Thank you so much for this. Very much appreciated X1000. Hopefully this will be a sticky somewhere!

What's the difference between Apogee GTZ and Apogee GTZ #2?

I think when you really look at the results and take the Extreme "i'd sell my XXXXX foir a extra degree" that most blocks are pretty equal, there are a lot in the middle of the pack, some are more or less restrictive but that is a function of many or single blocks in your loop, that is a credit to the block makers,'
So if you play your blocks to their strengths then they will shine for you and if not, you might loose 2 degreez,.
'
thanks for the post Martin! another great eye opener.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Two different Supreme blocks, two different GTZ blocks. There's also plenty of testing error to make it pretty much hard to say anything conclusive.

Anyhow, if I could emphasize one thing it would be don't trust the results anymore than about 2 degrees. The ups and downs in the mounts is a good indication just how much error there is.

75 mounts later was a painful lesson in reality that testing CPU blocks is really difficult to produce anything very conclusive using the processor DTS sensor.

And yes, my processor was lapped, a differently shaped IHS very well could produce a different result. At the same token no two IHS are shaped the same so you could again get two different results from two stock IHS processor.

It sucks, but it is what it is....not very precise.:shrug:

It was a good learning experience though, hope it helps some....
Thanks!
Martin

---

Basically the thing to tell new watercoolers is that most of the
blocks you test are pretty damn close overall.

There are more things to worry about.
Like.
Mounting.
TIM and how it is applied.
Ambients.
Pump.
Radiator size.
How many components are in a said loop.

You have done the best you can do which is better than any other
i have ever seen.
You have done your best to make the test as close to identical
as anyone can.

Great job over all.:up:

:clap::clap::clap:

Thankyou so much for all your hard work Martin - what a way to finish up. I love how you make it so easy for everyone to read including those of us who don't know too much about the technical side of things.

I really appreciate everything that you have done for the community and I wish you all the best with your future endeavours :up:

I have several of the blocks...will be interesting to see how close our results are when I wrap up my testing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

dates back a long time ago during the fusion frenzy. Fusion best this, fusion best that.... Then i showed XS the supreme. Yes it was ME. More tweeking later, i told everyone, fusion is only best when you need low restriction.

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Don't forget that for a while the fuzion was on top because the Supreme didn't exist ;) :p:

Now that's a grand finale! Bravo! :clap:

Way to go out with a bang Martin :up:

Thanks for all the blood sweat and tears you've put into testing wc for us :) I think it goes without saying... We have an enormous amount of appreciation for not only your work but also yourself. You'll be sorely missed around these parts :clap:

Martin, you're the man, awesome write-up :clap: :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

dates back a long time ago during the fusion frenzy. Fusion best this, fusion best that.... Then i showed XS the supreme. Yes it was ME. More tweeking later, i told everyone, fusion is only best when you need low restriction.

<got laughed at more> no im being serious.... then i just gave up testing to public. :rofl:

---

:with:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sirheck

Basically the thing to tell new watercoolers is that most of the
blocks you test are pretty damn close overall.

There are more things to worry about.
Like.
Mounting.
TIM and how it is applied.
Ambients.
Pump.
Radiator size.
How many components are in a said loop.

You have done the best you can do which is better than any other
i have ever seen.
You have done your best to make the test as close to identical
as anyone can.

Great job over all.:up:

---

Very well said sirheck, pretty much sums it up. :up:

You sir are a water cooling god.

Can we get a custom rank for him?

Your dedication to this entire community will be forever remembered.

Hopefully you'll find some time to swing by on occasion and say hi.

:)

Thanks again Martin!

very nice thanks for this

Martin, nice work as always... sorry about the 5 mounts :rofl: They suck don't they? You can actually thank Bill Adams for that, I think he used to do 10 mounts! Bottom like is with IHS over heat source, we are sort of at a brick wall.... anyway great job!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

okey to everyone that laughed at me when i told them straight up the Supreme was the best.

---

Meh, in all my testing I could get the fuzion to outperform ANYTHING... that block is so tunable it is sick. To this day, lowest recorded temp with the fuzion v1, custom bow via o-ring and the 4.5mm nozzle. Nothing better IMO.

WOW, RRR was right

EK Supreme.... Reigns Supreme. :shocked:

Great way to end it. Thanks for the effort you put into this testing :D.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Martin, my hat is off to you, and always will be. You are a great tester, give clear and trustworthy results, and your just a great guy. :up:

We will all miss your testing and reviews!!!!

EK Supreme reigns high! :D

BTW, I VOTE STICKY!!!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smee

BTW, I VOTE STICKY!!!!!!!!

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Seconded! That is one insane grand finale, Martin!

Thanks for the test Martin. Surely know how to suprise people.:D

I got a half price EK Supreme last month and swapped them with Fuzion V1(promount+quad nozzle). Pretty much around 1-2 delta between them.

Now can you please benchmark all those blocks with the I7?

I joke, I joke.

Honestly, this is some of the best information on cpu blocks out there:clap:. Thank you very much Martin!!

Great job Martin :up: Thanks for your hard work. Wow I can't believe its the unsung EK Supreme that...reign supreme.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aspire.comptech

You sir are a water cooling god.

Can we get a custom rank for him?

Your dedication to this entire community will be forever remembered.

Hopefully you'll find some time to swing by on occasion and say hi.

:)

Thanks again Martin!

---

Can't agree more as a relative newcomer to the forums. It is sad to see such a prominent member of the community leaving, and I hope that all of this knowledge will be preserved for future members.

Again, thanks so much for your dedication and excellent work!!!!! I know I cannot truly understand the time and commitment that you put into your work, but please accept my thanks, you truly are an upstanding member of the WCing community.

I\ll say it for RRR ====== FTW EK rules !!

very nice work, i have been looking for a review like this ever since i got into water cooling. I have used your flow estimator so much even though i hardly change my loop its nice to see what would change. Thanks for this and all your work, sad to see you go you are probably the best water block tester i have ever seen.

One last hurrah!

Thanks martin, what a way to go out. :yepp:

<cuddles my EK supreme>

wish you can keep doing amazing work like this, but it was a good way to end. thanks, and GL with you own things martin :up:

YEAH Great work Martin !!! :up::up::up::up::up:

your testing will be sorely missed by all here at XS WC


:yepp: Hope the Mods sticky this soon ! :yepp:

anyway Go have some fun now !!!

:bounces::cheer::party::guitar::party3::party2::ch eer::bounces:

Wonderful review. Must have taken a lot of time! Well done and thanks from all of us!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Meh, in all my testing I could get the fuzion to outperform ANYTHING... that block is so tunable it is sick. To this day, lowest recorded temp with the fuzion v1, custom bow via o-ring and the 4.5mm nozzle. Nothing better IMO.

---

chaneled nozzles, Focused heads, think streamline base, massive head pressure, Rectangular cooling head, vs circular.

Sorry scott, the supreme has it beat. :rofl:

Now someone needs to get eddie to make them channeled, and focused.

Only problem is you cant use it on a dualcore, and a dualcore version on a quadcore.

The i7 will require another set of specalized nozzles, which i think ima have fun playing with.

After ive played with new koolance block. :P
Im getting a set to play with.

the benchmark has been set in all ways possible here.

this sets an example for all that will follow you martin

Outstanding analysis Martin! Hope you enjoyed all the hard work you've put in, and I hope you enjoy your next venture, what ever that may be....:up: :clap:

You took the bulls by the horn and tamed them Martin, my respect. You have left so many marks that woun´t be eroded by time in this forum. It´s sad to see you leave, but you know what is best for you and i wish you the best in whatever you are planning to do. Just don´t forget that you still have a family in this forum that will always welcome you with an open arm. I hope a mod will be man enough to put you name in as extreme legend. Once more thanks for all the hard work and private advice, which i benefitted from too.

Sure the supreme provides the best temps (there no denying that). However, as soon as multiple block loops are factored into the performance equation the supreme just isn't the best... I just hope that the newcomers to watercooling don't look at the temp data and think to themselves 'ooo EK supreme, imma grab myself one of those and wack it in the loop with a GPU block', only to find out that they don't have the best cooling they could have had they gone with a lesser performing (temperature wise) lower restriction block.

thank you martin for another wonderful set of testing done.

next i think we'll have skinnee and andy to bug for some test results... hehehe...

martin Ftw!!!!!

Thanks martin for all your work.... not just this test but all the previous tests as well. I've learnt a lot from reading your reviews and posts. Your work will be missed for sure, but I hope you will be happy doing whatever you choose to do next. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shocker003

You took the bulls by the horn and tamed them Martin, my respect. You have left so many marks that woun´t be eroded by time in this forum. It´s sad to see you leave, but you know what is best for you and i wish you the best in whatever you are planning to do. Just don´t forget that you still have a family in this forum that will always welcome you with an open arm. I hope a mod will be man enough to put you name in as extreme legend. Once more thanks for all the hard work and private advice, which i benefitted from too.

---

I agree 100% I vote Extreme Legend for martinm210:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

I agree 100% I vote Extreme Legend for martinm210:up:

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+1 :up:

Martin is a class act. One of the best of XS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

I agree 100% I vote Extreme Legend for martinm210:up:

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I vote for that as well. Martin takes the time out of his days to do all the work to show us the real numbers. That speaks volumes in itself!

I feel like I'm simply entering a chorus, and I'm not even wet, but I always like to indulge myself in data. Thank you.

This thread has been added to the sticky "Liquid Cooling · Information/Guides & Reviews/Tests" thread. :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shocker003

I hope a mod will be man enough to put you name in as extreme legend.

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Martinm210 isn't even qualified for Xtreme Legend title, but is qualified for X.I.P. ;)

I guess it's time to make a new title. Xtreme WC Legend. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by أشرف

This thread has been added to the sticky "Liquid Cooling · Information/Guides & Reviews/Tests" thread. :up:



Martinm210 isn't even qualified for Xtreme Legend title, but is qualified for X.I.P. ;)

---

Thanks for pushing me onto the right track,;) but give honor to whoever deservers it.
X.I.P or Legend, it´s long over due.:up:
Deep in our heart of hearts, we all know he is a Watercooling Legend.
Please what qualifies one as an Xtreme Legend?

Pretty awesome finale, Martin. Also, it makes my Fuzion V1 look so old.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shocker003

Thanks for pushing me onto the right track,;) but give honor to whoever deservers it.
X.I.P or Legend, it´s long over due.:up:
Deep in our heart of hearts, we all know he is a Watercooling Legend.
Please what qualifies one as an Xtreme Legend?

---

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=59056

It's more for overclocking than anything else. I'm sure he's still plenty happy with XIP. A feat that is most difficult to achieve.

Sticky!!!........<ftw>

Amazing work Martin! and fairly easy to come up with a answer too (at least with the q6600 processor in mind specifically), EK block for single waterblock systems and Fuzion V2 for single loop multiple block systems.

Great extensive testing with great results. You outdid yourself just before you close the curtain on testing :up:

From the results, I will sit on my Fuzion v2 since 1C is meaningless under my eyes. I will just remove the quad mid-plate from what I heard around (Andy tested it to perform worse than the stock mid-plate). Any cpu block we recommend to new WC users is a good choice and it will actually vary depending on the loop setup (From cpu-only loop with RD-30 to multi-blocks loop with a DDC3.1 for silence).

Another vote for Xtreme Legend !

see thats not the point.

what is the best?

whats defined as the best?

To me the best is defined as the best. The best meaning the greatest possible.

I hope you guys understand that now. There is no brand favortism on my end. I love the supreme, but i hate EK FC blocks. I wil praise and promote the supreme till no tomorrow, but i will bash and destory the FC blocks.

You guys really need to understand that. When i say something is the best, im doing it very objectively, not favoratively. So I hope this review my good friend martin shows you guys that when i say something is the best, i really do mean it.

Since no one around me is even thinkn of i7, i decided to go back to my thermal testing. I have my own ways outside of martin, there not as precise, but its accurate.

Ancient Korean Technique passed down by generations. :rofl:

So when i come out with new predictions i hope you guys dont laugh at me again. :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

So when i come out with new predictions i hope you guys dont laugh at me again. :up:

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NAHH !

That will never happen = Now that u have told us all how to push yer button .....L O L !

Thanks Martin for the countless hours of testing. How could anyone put up with 5 times 15 variations of cpu block mounts??? 75 variations just on the block comparisons alone! :shocked: You did it, I know, cause you wanted to do it right! And as a result, EK has been vindicated in the eyes of many here.

When I started my first build, I poured over your site and XS looking for clues on how to do it right. Right now, I am looking at 28C idle on an overclocked phenom thanks to your tips, and a few from Waterlogged. I very much appreciate all your hard work. :clap:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

I was surprised how close the results are thermally, obviously we are coming to a barrier in thermal efficiency. More importantly these results only apply to this one processor, it would be different for dual core, or larger cores. Generally I think blocks that have very small center nozzles would do better from smaller processors and those with long spread-out type nozzles or distributed flow paths would do better with larger cores. Most people will likely see more gain by doubling up on their radiator capacity than changing out of CPU blocks. If the average radiator water/ambient delta is 10C, doubling the rads would be worth 5C which is greater than the difference between any block here. The differences are just pretty small...and frankly hard to even measure.

Also note the mounting mechanism differences. The old spring/open nut styles are not going to be as easy to use and ensure even mounting pressure as those that have some sort of bottoming nut or other design item that prevents the user from tightening one side or corner more than the others. Furthermore, some come with back-plates while others do not, you better plan on buying one for those that do not, it's essential in protecting your motherboard and a hidden cost.

Finally bowing and stepping do help with the last few bits of efficiency, although they also have some negatives. They work by increasing mounting pressure per unit area for the critical surface directly above the die. However they work against mounting consistency and are more difficult to mount because of this. Finally some may or may not be optimized or designed to cover larger or smaller cores. I like a small amount of bowing myself, it seems to work like camber in a bridge if nothing else and counter the flex of the block in high pressure applications.

Cheers!:toast:
Martin

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I've known this very well since I stepped into this hobby, in fact I mention it quite often.

As for the rest I quoted, I absolutely agree and it should be required reading.

Thanks for the hard work...

Wow. Nice work, I'm impressed.

Awesome, as always. The neatly presented data doesn't nearly illustrate how much work must have gone into the testing.

Awesome work Martin! I really appreciate your effort. No more "product x is 4 degrees better than y!" they are all pretty close to each other. BTW, how thick is the ek surpreme fins+base?

Thanks for your hard work :up:

Martin your dedication and quality to the art of watercooling will always be appreciated. You have given so much of your time and money to be able to bring us good solid testing techniques that are not questioned.

I will miss your reviews but I fully understand the toll it must have taken on you. I raise my glass to you and your skills. :toast:

thanks martin!

Thanks guys!

No need for sticky, it's already in the reviews sticky. Anyhow, it's not like I'm vanishing all together, too many great folks in these forums. Nothing can take me away from getting my regular dosage of coffee or milk up the nose that I get here:eek:...too much fun!:D

Needless to say I'm not keeping just one block either, too many different types of processors out there and coming not to mention tweaks and nozzles and bowing, and everything else you can do to make them even better...:D

Cheers and have fun!!:)
Martin

This testing, and what I know about i7, makes me think that Fragarach, shuold it ever see the light of day, would do well on both. Maybe not top three, but it should be capable of handling either.

Now if I could only cast one...

Thanks Martin! Your honest results + meticulous documentation + sober analysis = huge resource for all of us!

Martin,

what stock volts is that Q6600 of yours? Do you have the coolant temps for the GTX?

I'd like to work out some c/w numbers and compare to "published" numbers.

This thread makes me feel much better.

I have an aquaextreme mp-05 pro and I was looking to see if there was anything new that'd blow it out of the water(no pun intended) for an upcoming i7 system.

Unlike air cooling where I see tons of 8c differences in reviews, among over a dozen blocks for the most part it's 3c differences, tops.. sometimes 1c.

It's good to know I don't have to go nuts with this.

I feel bad for wanting to buy a new block vs lapping this one(I'm not sure if my CPU is retarded or the nasty base is what causes the 8c difference among cores @ load OC'd), but with the price of a good condition block... I don't feel too bad at all.

I keep my radiator outside, it's so cold that 55c or 56.5c at load with the q6600 @ 1.65v won't make any difference to me.

Thanks for doing this.

You rock! Thanks for all the testing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thasp

This thread makes me feel much better.

I have an aquaextreme mp-05 pro and I was looking to see if there was anything new that'd blow it out of the water(no pun intended) for an upcoming i7 system.

Unlike air cooling where I see tons of 8c differences in reviews, among over a dozen blocks for the most part it's 3c differences, tops.. sometimes 1c.

It's good to know I don't have to go nuts with this.

I feel bad for wanting to buy a new block vs lapping this one(I'm not sure if my CPU is retarded or the nasty base is what causes the 8c difference among cores @ load OC'd), but with the price of a good condition block... I don't feel too bad at all.

I keep my radiator outside, it's so cold that 55c or 56.5c at load with the q6600 @ 1.65v won't make any difference to me.

Thanks for doing this.

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For reference, I read on here something that basically explained that such a high difference between cores is extremely unlikely... think about how close they are... how would the temps not equal out to pretty close to the same? It's the Intel sensors not being perfect, they are not designed to be perfect.

Lap the CPU!

I jut have 1 question, what graphing software do you use?? that was an awesome shootout my friend awesome indeed

he used excel.

Pictures!!!

Seems like the pictures in the review are gone, kind of makes the whole test unusable :( Anyone got an alternative link or the possibility to fix the pictures?

Would be sad to see such a great test, and effort go to waste.

Fixed the first post with the skinnee rehost of MLL, hope Martin and Skinnee don't mind! :eek:

Thats :up: with me!