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Worth to change to Xchange 360 or 480?
I'm just weighting my options here.
I just bought my MCR320 2 months ago.. but gonna reloop my PC soon. Therefore i'm thinking of changing my Radiator.
Is it worth the money?
Xchanger 480/360 or the Thermochill PA120.3
I agree, just picked up the ThermoChill PA 120x3 to replace the Black Ice Extreme III.Quote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
best build? oh come on man... what are you basing that on? the stupid amounts of pre-washing you have to do? the rusted thread holes? the flimsy paint? I hate feser as much as anyone who knows the real story, but best built? pfft
As for the OP, list your loop components first.
Rusted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojamijams
I believe he's asking if it will net him any extra PERFORMANCE, not if it will look better or be better built.
Assuming you had an average 10C water/air delta...the difference between an MCR320 and a PA120.3 would be about .6 to 1.5 degrees depending on the fans used. I tested and measured somewhere between 6-14% difference and according to thermochills own testing it was around an 8% differece it does depend on the fan used though. If you had the space for a second MCR, the difference would be 5 degrees.
The difference really depends on your heat load though. If your radiator feels warm to the touch, it's likely running in the 10C delta range. If it's cool to the touch it's probably in the 5C delta range, etc. As you get closer and closer to ambient the difference and gains becomes less and less.
Assuming the 10C delta (400watts of heat and 1350RPM yate loons),
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...320-Therm2.png
The difference would be about a degree. This would be about equal to changing the fans out from 1350RPM yate loons to 1550RPM yates.
But why spend an extra 100+ bucks for a radiator that's only gonna net him 1-2C improvements, if even that?
I love my el cheapo swiftys :sofa:
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by Gir92
Actually my MCR320 is running on the Yate loons D12SL-12 fans.
Would it be a better choice to run it on Scythe S-Flex F?
My set up is only cooling my CPU. Below is my WC setup.
Swiftech GTZ
Swiftech MCR320 Radiator
Swiftech MCP355
XSPC Acrylic Pump Top Reservoir
I have a BIGTX 360, PA120.3 and a TFC360 and i almost dare to say that the TFC is about the same quality as the PA (only much better paint job) :D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by RealRedRaider
only thing is that the PA seems to be giving SLIGHTLY better temps
anyway i would keep the mcr320 and use some higher speed fans (S-Flex ftw)!
How much better is a Feser 320 over a thermochill 320?
Lets say with 88cfm yates.
D5, ek supreme, Feser 320
D5, ek supreme, thermochill 320.
Not sure which processor, but assuming a very hot overclocked quad core is only going to produce around 200 watts or so (depends on the processor/overclock/vcore/temperature).Quote:
Originally Posted by FrOzE
Assuming 200 watts, going for the 1350 D12SL12's is going to roughly follow the gain of going from D12SL12s to D12SM12s or about .7C gain.
However going with a dual core or lower heat processor, assuming 125 watts of heat total, you'd only see maybe .5C gain.
As for the pain issue, just buy a swifty rad and repaint it. That's what I did and I'm still at 1/2 - 1/3 the price of the expensive rads.
I do agree that the stock swifty paint is garbage, but I repainted mine and love it. :D
but RRR, for what it's intended use, Feser is fine... it's not meant to withstand that much pressure and weight...
and also the MCR is great choice... offers the performance without the bulk... nor the price...
in terms of Feser vs Thermochill, TC better come up and start making their products more available... cus Feser has opened a can of whupass
actually the Feser is about 1 degree worse than the PA according to some german review.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie3dfx
i was planning to do my own testing on the BIGTX,TFC and PA rads but i keep on getting into problems with my Crystalfontz display for monitoring temps..anyway im not sure if there is any point in that testing though..
My guess would be that at low speed fans PA>TFC>BIGTX and at high speed fans (~1800rpm+ ) BIGTX>PA>TFC
I think for my case, i would be so much better keeping the Swiftech MCR320 n changing to the S-Flex F fans :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis86
Depend of the fans you use. PA are better only with very low cfm fans.
That's true. Alot of the earlier reviews that I went back to and tried to understand more about all tested with fans in the 600-900RPM range. This is an area where the PA is strong, but from what I understand in the fan poll we had here, the majority of users actually run fans in the 1350-1550 RPM range.
Unfortunately performance of any radiator now matter how well optimized for low speed fans, drops significantly when you start running fans that slow. Even the MCR320 for example achieves over 3X the performance with 3000RPM fans vs 1000RPM fans, a similar scaling occurs as you further reduce fan speed. It is an option though, string several radiators together and undervolt the snot out of the fans and you can get the same or better performance as one radiator with one strong set of fans. While I've spent enough years in a plywood mill and a machine shop to abuse my ears that I can't hear a 1000RPM fan, I've heard some people say they are too loud. For those folks stringing several radiators together and running ulra low speed fans might be the best way to go. Ultra silence does cost some $$ though..
oops i got it mixed up..just looks at those graphs and the TFC is better than the PA at 7v (800rpm) and at 12V (1300 rpm)...
http://www.abload.de/img/deltawerte7v-28xq.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/deltawerte12v-2wu3.jpg
as about what you said about low speeds fans, the TFC has the same fin density as the PA, meaning that it is also good for low speed fans. The TFC is slightly shorter but the copper makes up for it..
anyway i doubt any of those can beat my BIGTX with push pull configs and S-flex F fans :D :D
u know what i want?
An MCR which is threaded on both sides so you can make one like a sli config on a video card and stack them.
Martin's test showed the air going and and out was only off by like 1C at most. So having 2 rads sandwitched between a fan would give you a very nice package, and also provide scalability.
Im not a fan of hugh rads, the 480GTX did it for me. Id rather have a smaller but thicker rad.
BUT I Love my GTX480's with Iwaki RD-30's AND a 1000CFM Blower !Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
;p
:rofl::ROTF::rofl:
I saw in an other review that the PA are better with low speed fans ...
I'd like to see a review with push-pull fans feser vs PA vs black ice gtx
seeing that the GTX has a far higher fin density than the rest it should be a one sided game..however by how much would it win?:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Repliquant67
hopefully i can fix my crystalfontz issues and then i can do that testing. i was gonna do the testing with Ultra Kazes 3k rpm but i sold them. I do have enough Scythe S-Flex F fans though for push-pull configs so that should be more than enough:D
That would be absolutely awesome. I would totally buy 2 more MCR 220s to Swifty Link Interface with my current 2 MCR 220s.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Hahaha Quad SLI MCR320 lol :clap:
Now all Gabe needs to do is sell a SLI radiator interface (TM) :p:
uhhh why?
Id trust martin's review over anyone elses, as i always make his review the decider.
:shrug:
Didn't I suggest this once and you laughed at me? :shrug: :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
yeah but your layout was funky. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
Ahh, the truth comes out! I thought it was gillbot "In Naekuh's backyard stealing", not the other way around....:shrug:
If you need to remove more heat, add another mcr320,220,120 (whatever you need) instead. I doubt there'll be that much restriction if you have a good pump.
I agree Martin FTW! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Just install some higher cfm/pressure fans and you'll be good to go. Trust what Martin's numbers say. It's nice to get people's opinions, although take some of them with a grain of salt.
I've been trying to figure this one out since I got my MCR320 (both thinking external and internal stacking).Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
I finally thought I had figured it out when I was at Lowe's and saw threaded shafts, but then I wondered how I would 'tighten' them, as the directions are reversed.
without trying to offend everybody i very much doubt that anybody is producing enough heat to stretch the watercooled system they actually have.
unless they bought a thermaltake lcs case!
;)
:welcome:Quote:
Originally Posted by schmokinn
Not trying to sound like an arsehat but, you registered in '05 and your first post is to drag up a nearly 6 month old topic? :confused:
maybe he likes to post in wamps :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
wamps doesn't count towards post count?:confused: News to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
nope, neither does gaming, cars or tech talk...Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
hahaha...that's classic....:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
Bumping.
Why?
Well there was a thread here trying to shoot down the Swiffie and I've been met stiff resistance at OCAU when I say that the Feser, XSPC and TC rads are not that much better than a Swiffie when combined with medium to high speed fans. Some people seem to think that a Feser X-Changer is 'worth it' over a Swiffie and the numbers they quote are impossible. Saying you'll have 5-10C higher cpu temps with slim rads . . . . ugh, please never go on the interwebz again.
the difference between the worst and the best rad is less than 1 degree celcius imo.
Martin said the same thing on page one. After testing a lot of rads, Shane has also come to this conclusion.
:up:
definitely not worth the MAXIMUM of 1.5c gain over a swiftech mcr320. that rad is designed and priced EXCELLENTLY.
link us to the thread that says its 5-10c gain
Would a second rad in the same loop provide any better performance over 1-2c?
I was told in a previous thread that 2 MCR320's would perform better than 1 GTX360, So I assume that you would see more than 1-2c change with 2 :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXgod
Look I'm not too sure if you would see a temp change or not. Right now I have a MCR320 and a RS360 cooling a Q6600 and nb. Turning on the fans on the second rad only drops temps by 1C. I think you need to be maxing out your lone slim rad before seeing better performance than a TC/Feser. Maybe with a heavily oc'ed 920 would show a better improvement.
I'm looking to maybe purchase my first watercooling setup for a Xeon W3520 and will be running only a CPU block and a full coverage motherboard block on a Classified 760 in the loop and was trying to decide between radiators. Right now I'm looking at the Feser Xchanger or the XSPC RX360 but will the Swiftech MCR320 perform just as well within 1-2C? Which one do you think would perform the best with low to medium speed fans?
with med speed fans (1300-1600rpm) i'd go with the MCR, with low speed fans you can achieve the same w/ the XSPC, so is the extra $40 worth the little bit more quietness you gain with the fat radiator?
the feser junk just isn't worth it. dont pay for their overpriced crap.
Feser seems to have some sort of problem, their rads are out of stock pretty much everywhere. :shakes:
You are obviously speaking from experience here :down: feser makes fine radiators.Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUISSSSS
My question would be: what burningrave is looking to get out of their system. Silence? Overclocking headroom?
I've been noticing that many shops are out of stock on most of their radiators. P PC's has no TC, nothing over tfc 240 but looks to have most of their hwlabs rads in stock. hwlabs and xspc seem to be the two easiest to get atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laine
Go for the MCR. Stay away from anything Feser.
Any reason why feser should be avoided? I am genuinely curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojamijams
looks at their price/performance ratio, look for their advertisements.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellcamino
I'm curious also could someone explain what feser has done
You must be referring to the price bracket that Thermochill held for years before getting beat out by many of the newer radiators? A GTX 480 will run you around $140 USD and a tfc 480 will run about $150, an xspc is about $125, I haven't seen prices on the new TC 120.4's. I'm sure once again that you are speaking from personal experience Louis, if not then go look at a graph done by Martin to see what rad excels where.Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUISSSSS
Based purely on price to performance Feser has one of the most expensive 3.120 rads out there and like others said early on the most you will see between these rads in the real world is a 1-2 degree change. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow664
Right now I have a Cooler Master ATCS 840 with a TRUE black in a push/pull config using a Yate Loon D12SL-12 blue LED 38.5 CFM / 25.4 dba and a Scythe S-Flex SFF21F 63.7 CFM / 28 dba and I'm having a hard time keeping temps under 80C at load with LinX when clocking to 4Ghz+.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellcamino
I would like for the system to be fairly quiet so that I could leave it running at night Prime'ing if I wanted to but I also would like to be able to run 4-4.2Ghz with LinX load temps under 70C. I'm looking for a radiator that will offer high performance using fans no louder than 28 dba or so at most if that's possible.
you're definitely over the limits of the true, go WCing and your temps will def be under 70C, unless ur room temps are way high...
the mcr320 will be fine for a cpu loop
RX360 for $94.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellcamino
http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-RX360-T...r-pr-4384.html
yes, i am speaking from experience and i've used fat radiators & skinny radiators, they perform very similar. i know the mcr320 is the absolute best bang/buck triple radiator out there. i also know that the RX360 is within 1-2c of the TFC/TC radiators at low (800-1200rpm) fan speeds. now, you tell me if the TFC (around $140 when in stock) is worth the extra $45 for pretty much the same temperatures that nobody will notice the difference of? is it even worth waiting/searching for the tfc triple? i dont think so
wow what a nice way to necro the thread.
But u guys can see where the stackable MCR320 came from on post 23 dated back in October 2008!
Hero cookie for you :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Oh maaaan running 2 or more rads in parallel so that the pressure in the rads drops and the water stays in there longer fffuuuu that would be AWESOME
:banana::banana::banana::banana: yeah parallel flowrate drop
Quote:
Originally Posted by burningrave101
I am betting you would like either an xspc RX series or the Magicool Elegant then with http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835185090 for fans. These fans are super quiet and have great pressure on a radiator, those two rads are the best with slow speed fans.
Hey dud! Nice to see you here! My vote for the PA 120.3 ... In SG is hot ... we need damn big ass radiator! Haha!
it doesn't matter where you are, if it is hot in singapore, you'll be limited by ambient temps.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeChuo
radiators will still dissipate the same amount of heat, no?