Swiftech Apogee Drive Mini Review

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09-24-2008, 05:09 PM
Martinm210

Swiftech Apogee Drive Mini Review

Next on the list since I had the GT tested and the drive was based around the GT design, I figured the apogee drive was a good comparison.

My initial thought when I saw the Apogee Drive come out was, why bother wasting your money on that thing, you'd just have to throw it away if you wanted to upgrade. Little did I know the motor is completely upgradeable and performance turns out to be alot better than I expected.

First I would like to thank Linus from NCIX.com for providing me this sample to test, I believe it was his own personal and just wanted me to review it because there is so little information out there on it.
Thanks Linus!:clap:

On to the review:
If you want all the details and pictures I have them on my site here:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/Swif...ve_Review.html

But I'll spare you some of the boring stuff and just give you the executive summary here:

Here is the block/accessories package that you get, (Also a nice guide I forgot to include in the picture).
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...geeDrive-2.jpg

When you break it down this is what you'll find:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...geeDrive-6.jpg

Even further, here is the flow chamber half on top of the base, the flow is spread over the base nicely.
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...geeDrive-9.jpg

And the most important part, the pump motor is a genuine Laing DDC3.1 and can easily be modified to a DDC3.2, put a pump top on it and now you have one of the strongest pumps around..:up:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...eeDrive-10.jpg

Now for some thermal testing, as tested it was producing 1.4GPM on my test setup, which is about 1GPM less than my GT setup:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...riveTherm1.gif

And here is how it stacks up to the thermal performance (hottest of 4 cores)of an Apogee GT bowed with a DDC3.2 with XSPC res top.

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...riveTherm4.gif

It's performing every bit AS GOOD as the Apogee GT + DDC3.2 + Top combo. That's good and I think this is a really good option for those folks that are on a really tight budget ($100-$150). You could buy this combo along with a $20 bonnie heatercore and get some great cooling and more importantly the pump motor is "Upgradable", so if later you decide to buy another block, you can just get a pump top and have separated components then without throwing the pump away..:yepp:

For $89, it's almost like you get the block for free and you're just paying for the pump motor.

Cheers!:toast2:
Martin
09-24-2008, 05:24 PM
Riggs

Awesome review, straightforward! I'm hoping to get one for my next amd lanbox build.
09-24-2008, 05:25 PM
StAndrew

Excelent!! :up:

So many people ask me how to watercool without breaking the bank. So hard to answer...... until now! :clap:
09-24-2008, 05:34 PM
BlueAqua

Martin, you have a way about you to make everything look good. I don't know how you do it, but damn I almost want to try one out now. It would be great for my htpc. ;)
09-24-2008, 05:40 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueAqua

Martin, you have a way about you to make everything look good. I don't know how you do it, but damn I almost want to try one out now. It would be great for my htpc. ;)

There are some things I didn't like, mainly some QC issues around the casting quality and the use of coarse threaded screws, but otherwise I like the little unit. I've tried to answer alot of threads where folks have ask people to help them build a very inexpensive kit. Typically by the time you buy a DDC, a top, a waterblock, and a radiator...it's going well over $200. Going this route can easily save you $50 bucks...and that's good.

But I'm thinking for really low budget, this along with a $20 bonnie heatercore and a T-fitting, you can almost have a watercooling setup for just over $100 bucks. That's hard to do with individual components.

Heck if you had access to a buddys machine shop, you could salvage the base out of it and create your own dream block while you're at it. Now THAT would be fun!!:up:
09-24-2008, 06:00 PM
BlueAqua

I was just going to see how much these sell for and check for any deals, but I only found it through Swiftech themselves and CrazyPC. Are these discontinued or just mostly bundled in kits?
09-24-2008, 06:12 PM
Riggs

Linky to performance PC's

$99.99 :)
09-24-2008, 06:19 PM
Kibbler

Hi Martin, I greatly enjoy reading your reviews. Thanks for putting in the time and effort.

1 question, in these pics...
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3...edrive9ct2.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2...edrive5kw5.jpg

Any corrosion risk?
09-24-2008, 06:37 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kibbler

Hi Martin, I greatly enjoy reading your reviews. Thanks for putting in the time and effort.

1 question, in these pics...
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3...edrive9ct2.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2...edrive5kw5.jpg

Any corrosion risk?

Good question, I'll check into it after I pull it from my system. I think the old magnet test would do the trick to test for ferrous metals. If they are mild steel, replacing those two with some stainless steel screws would be a good preventative idea.:up:
09-24-2008, 07:15 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueAqua

I was just going to see how much these sell for and check for any deals, but I only found it through Swiftech themselves and CrazyPC. Are these discontinued or just mostly bundled in kits?

You can also get them at NCIX here:
http://www.ncixus.com/products/25711...RIVE/Swiftech/

Havn't seen them carried regularly in alot of places though. Most seem to be carried in the kits.
09-24-2008, 07:31 PM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

Good question, I'll check into it after I pull it from my system. I think the old magnet test would do the trick to test for ferrous metals. If they are mild steel, replacing those two with some stainless steel screws would be a good preventative idea.:up:

Martin, just hope those aren't a magnetic type SS. :ROTF:
09-24-2008, 07:42 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Martin, just hope those aren't a magnetic type SS. :ROTF:

lol! Ok maybe I'll let them sunbathe on a salty wet sponge for a few days after sanding them down...:D
09-24-2008, 10:58 PM
Cptn Vortex

The ONLY thing I dont like about this block are the 3/8" Barbs. Make them 1/2" or a new G1/4" Threaded design and I am ALL over this thing in a eye blink.
09-25-2008, 12:53 AM
voigts

Its nice to get some more of your excellent work available on this since the data on the Apogeedrive is sorely lacking. I have been wondering how well this works.
09-25-2008, 02:18 AM
_G_

Petras used to have them for $75 but i think he drooped them.

Looks like you got some real consistent mounts with that drive unit.:up:
09-25-2008, 11:57 AM
Johnny Bravo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kibbler

Hi Martin, I greatly enjoy reading your reviews. Thanks for putting in the time and effort.

1 question, in these pics...
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3...edrive9ct2.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2...edrive5kw5.jpg

Any corrosion risk?

Weird - mine doesn't have these in it :confused:
09-25-2008, 12:08 PM
evil-98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo

Weird - mine doesn't have these in it :confused:

no way, thats almost impossible, mine does
09-25-2008, 01:06 PM
Johnny Bravo

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3...edrive9ct2.jpg
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...geeDrive-8.jpg

See all that detailing on the surface and screw posts....yeah I don't have any of that - totally flat
09-25-2008, 01:12 PM
alacheesu

Thanks for the review! Any vibration noise to speak of?
09-25-2008, 01:14 PM
evil-98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo

See all that detailing on the surface and screw posts....yeah I don't have any of that - totally flat

pics? i would assume that would free up some flow
09-25-2008, 02:50 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by alacheesu

Thanks for the review! Any vibration noise to speak of?

At the stock 10W setting, I didn't get any sort of noticeable vibration of the block, although it is firmly attached to the motherboard, so I imagine if you had a loose standoff or something in the immediate area that would make noise easily, it could be something to watch for.

For me and running two 480s with slow speed yates, the fans cover up any sort of noise from the pump that I can hear.
09-25-2008, 03:05 PM
Petra

Quote:

Originally Posted by _G_

Petras used to have them for $75 but i think he drooped them.

We may bring 'em back... not sure. We dropped the Apogee Drive because it just wasn't selling at all (even at $75). Didn't help that the leaking issues Swiftech ran into with the early units scared people off... even though all of the individual units we had were the revised ones (identifiable by the two wetted screws inside the mid-chamber and the cosmetic lines on the bottom of the lower plastic piece).
09-25-2008, 03:11 PM
nullface

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil-98

pics? i would assume that would free up some flow

x2, im dieng to see your block too
09-25-2008, 03:13 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petra

We may bring 'em back... not sure. We dropped the Apogee Drive because it just wasn't selling at all (even at $75). Didn't help that the leaking issues Swiftech ran into with the early units scared people off... even though all of the individual units we had were the revised ones (identifiable by the two wetted screws inside the mid-chamber and the cosmetic lines on the bottom of the lower plastic piece).

That's good info to know..I didn't even know there was a revision.:)
09-25-2008, 03:21 PM
Petra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

That's good info to know..I didn't even know there was a revision.:)

As I recall, the revised version introduced a reinforced midplate/housing (secured better, etc.) to fix the leaking issues and it's also when they started shipping with pre-bowed bases (the originals were flat and, therefore, don't perform quite as well as the revised ones).
09-25-2008, 03:26 PM
sirheck

Nice review.

I have two of these in two different sys.
Both have been pushing thru the cpu,NB and gpus
on an intel and an AMD for about 6 months now.
One was on an older s939 sys.

When i first used them with just the cpu only i could hear the flow.
They are much quieter with the nb and gpu,s added.

(ponders the soldering volt mod):idea:
09-25-2008, 04:07 PM
skinnee

Another great review Martin!! :up:

Thanks again!
09-25-2008, 04:51 PM
mstrmold

So, other than the bottom of the case lacking feet, I can convert my 12v Apogee to an 18v and drop a top on it? Sweet! Its been collecting dust in my garage for the past several months. :)
09-25-2008, 05:06 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstrmold

So, other than the bottom of the case lacking feet, I can convert my 12v Apogee to an 18v and drop a top on it? Sweet! Its been collecting dust in my garage for the past several months. :)

Yes, as long as it's a blue impeller pump, you can convert any of them from the normal 12V/10 Watt to a 12V/18 Watt pump by soldering a bridge across that connection. Or, you could run a switch off the two points and have it switchable 10W/18W.
09-25-2008, 10:55 PM
hotdun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

That's good info to know..I didn't even know there was a revision.:)

Every Time I Try to Get Out, They Pull Me Right Back In!
09-26-2008, 09:42 AM
mstrmold

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

Yes, as long as it's a blue impeller pump, you can convert any of them from the normal 12V/10 Watt to a 12V/18 Watt pump by soldering a bridge across that connection. Or, you could run a switch off the two points and have it switchable 10W/18W.

Thanks Martin, it does indeed have the blue impeller, and it has a 3.3 sticker on the corner of the PCB. So, I just simply solder the last contact to the next contact to the right to go from 12v to 18v? sweeet.
09-26-2008, 09:47 AM
Big_Daddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstrmold

Thanks Martin, it does indeed have the blue impeller, and it has a 3.3 sticker on the corner of the PCB. So, I just simply solder the last contact to the next contact to the right to go from 12v to 18v? sweeet.

No, it goes from 10 watt to 18 watt. Not volts, always 12 volts.
09-26-2008, 10:22 AM
kumar

1 Attachment(s)

Can i put tec at the back pump to cool down.
09-26-2008, 10:23 AM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by kumar

Can i put tec at the back pump to cool down.

:rofl::ROTF::welcome:
09-26-2008, 10:25 AM
evil-98

we should start watercooling pumps :)

i have a feeling im going to buy another apogee drive... lol

i already have 2, but one of the fittings broke on one of them :(
09-26-2008, 12:16 PM
mstrmold

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Daddy

No, it goes from 10 watt to 18 watt. Not volts, always 12 volts.

Gah, sorry about that.

I'm thinking about Martin's suggestion of putting a switch outside the block in case the 18watt mode makes too much noise.
09-26-2008, 01:01 PM
ThrustSSC

Marting great review as always!
09-27-2008, 05:32 PM
nzbleach

how would you add an aftermarket top to this? are the 3/8 barbs removable? I dont get it >_<
09-27-2008, 06:13 PM
evil-98

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzbleach

how would you add an aftermarket top to this? are the 3/8 barbs removable? I dont get it >_<

you cant added a top and the barbs are not removable...

the top is part of the block, and so are the barbs.
09-27-2008, 06:25 PM
Waterlogged

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzbleach

how would you add an aftermarket top to this? are the 3/8 barbs removable? I dont get it >_<

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil-98

you cant added a top and the barbs are not removable...

the top is part of the block, and so are the barbs.

...but you can remove the "mount/barb" part of the unit and replace it with a standard top.
09-27-2008, 06:29 PM
Martinm210

EDIT:
Waterlogged beat me to it....I'm too slow..:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzbleach

how would you add an aftermarket top to this? are the 3/8 barbs removable? I dont get it >_<

This is only if you plan to dispose of the block portion of the unit. The pump motor is a Laing DDC3.1=Swiftech MCP350.

So all you have to do is remove the pump motor and add a top and you get this:

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...eeDrive-11.jpg

Same thing except you don't have the little plastic feet on the pump motor case, but if you're mounting freely (which most people do to avoid vibration noise), it works fine.

In addition many people don't know that the Laing DDC 3.1 and DDC 3.2 are the same pump motor. They simply designed it so they can make a 10 watt version or an 18 watt version. To make this difference all they do is solder one contact acros the PCB to get 18watts.

So in the end, the motor that you get in the unit is the same pump motor everyone on the forum is running when they say DDC 3.2 or MCP355, etc. it's just that it has a slightly different cover and it's currently setup to run at 10watts, but you can change that very easily.

As far as saving the block base after removing the motor. That would be more difficult. You'd have to make your own pump top, or perhaps it would fit in an old apogee or mcw-60 block top if you had one of those lying around.
09-27-2008, 07:44 PM
nzbleach

thanks for clearing that up. Just wondering, without a top and if I added/swapped for a bigger rad, could this incorporate a GPU block into the loop?
09-27-2008, 08:39 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzbleach

thanks for clearing that up. Just wondering, without a top and if I added/swapped for a bigger rad, could this incorporate a GPU block into the loop?

Oh yeah, it has a fair amount of pumping power in stock trim. Also if you wanted more pumping power you could do the 18watt mod with the stock top, but I'm not sure I'd both doing that unless you just had a bunch of blocks and restriction which isn't likely going to happen. Most of the GPU blocks and radiators are fairly low in restriciton anyway....just make sure you have enough radiator/fan to handle the extra heatload.
09-28-2008, 01:29 AM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kibbler

Hi Martin, I greatly enjoy reading your reviews. Thanks for putting in the time and effort.

1 question, in these pics...
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3...edrive9ct2.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2...edrive5kw5.jpg

Any corrosion risk?

stainless of course.
09-28-2008, 01:31 AM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil-98

i already have 2, but one of the fittings broke on one of them :(

rma - we replace that even if you broke it .
09-28-2008, 07:10 AM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

rma - we replace that even if you broke it .

Cool, thats nice to know Gabe.
I have two of them but havent broke them...Yet.

Im always careful when changing tubing or adding something else.
09-30-2008, 04:38 AM
TI66ER

Gabe,if i put a switch on it to switch from 10-18w,is it ok to switch it from one to the other setting while it is powered up?

Thanks

TI66ER
09-30-2008, 06:31 AM
Pub_Randy**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

EDIT:
all you have to do is remove the pump motor and add a top and you get this:

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...eeDrive-11.jpg

Same thing except you don't have the little plastic feet on the pump motor case, but if you're mounting freely (which most people do to avoid vibration noise), it works fine.

Haha, nice.

You can buy the H20-120 kit here in AUS for like $75AUD and an XSPC top for $27.50AUD

Thats $12.50 cheaper than an MCP350 which we'd pay $115AUD for.. with a better top! and a free radiator :up::up::up:
09-30-2008, 03:27 PM
_G_

Quote:

Originally Posted by TI66ER

Gabe,if i put a switch on it to switch from 10-18w,is it ok to switch it from one to the other setting while it is powered up?

Thanks

TI66ER

Im pretty sure that would work but im also pretty sure that would void youre waranty on the pump part. lol
12-10-2008, 09:36 PM
douirc

I want to mount a 120x2 inside my Antec 1200 Twelve Hundred rear fans, paired with an Apogee Drive. What's the right rad to pair with this block? Is a PA120.2 a good match, or maybe a DD Black Ice GT Stealth since it's less stressfull (less passes)? Of course, I could always mod the drive for 18w, assuming it's the right pump and all I need to do is solder the two points together. I would assume at 18w the PA120.2 is no sweat?
12-10-2008, 09:59 PM
Waterlogged

Yes, you can mod the pump to be an 18W but it might be a tad louder than your expecting due to it being effectually, hard mounted. Any of the rads mentioned later should produce rather decent results with even the 10W version DDC. As for the rads, PA, BIGTX or Fester will serve you well for the big boys, Medium thickness rads you have either Swiftech or XSPC and if you need to go thin, go with a BIPro. Just steer clear of the GTS as they are overly restrictive for both the water and airflow.