Model︰Ture Copper Ultra-120 Extreme
Weight︰1.8KG
Price︰99USD
Sell Date:next Month
Limited qty 3000
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/...0db1d5b1_o.jpg
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Model︰Ture Copper Ultra-120 Extreme
Weight︰1.8KG
Price︰99USD
Sell Date:next Month
Limited qty 3000
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/...0db1d5b1_o.jpg
:shocked::shocked::shocked:
Would not want to be moving my PC much with that installed.
Looks heavy, might have to give it a go. Price.....wow.
Oh God. 3kg? That's three EeePCs.
Wow, its beautiful ! :clap:
If someone lap it until it forcefully become HDT it will be perfect :p:
Very nice for the boards on the rack but I don't think I'll hang any. :D
need to mount the mobo flat or have some suspension hangers if you have your mobo vertical in your case! Even then, you'd probably not get even contact with it being that heavy...
Should work well, provided it actually mounts firmly.
Very nice indeed
So who will post a user review on it? :D
no pic or link?
3kg??:down:
Good mother of the smelting gods, we accept your offering. :):p:
soooooooo.... whos gonna be selling it? :)
I thought all the normal ones were nickel-plated copper. So why is this one 3kg instead of 1?
Only the base and heatpipes were made of cooper :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
a thing of beauty!
99 dollars wtf?
limited quality!!!?
Come on thermalright, you can do much better than this.
(i'm disappointed by the price, but no doubt this will be the reigning cpu cooler champ)
damn you thermalright
looks like the statue of liberty.
this the real true thermalright :clap:
99$ ? ill take two! :)
i wouldnt dare jump to conclusions with 3kg of copper... thats a lot of heat capacity with not as much ability to move the heat over to the air...Quote:
Originally Posted by fragmasterMax
That looks cool. But $100 + $20-30 for two fans are almost in water cooling territory. Can it compete with water?
source? doesnt look like a TRUE at all, far to small width wise from what i can tell on the pic
^ lol there were a bunch who suggested the black true 120 was also a fake
the difference was a few months ago when asked about this at computex, thermalright stated there would be no copper edition as it was too heavy on the motherboards to be practical for production, and it raised saftey concerns.Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmV5
Edit: yes it does look like a ultima 90 copper edition judging by the width
if its not the true120.. maybe copper ultra90 ?
since theres no source on this and no official release from TR, i sent a email off to hank, see if theres any official specs or dates or anything.
False.Quote:
Originally Posted by brinox
Guys, 3kg is nothing unless you're tossing your machine around like a prat.
Waiting for the reviews but don't worry the x58 motherboards has 8 layers now so it is much thicker than other motherboards it should be able to handle the stress of a estimated 3kg CPU heat sink
Is copper made fin really that heavy compared to aluminum made one ? Can't believe the difference that huge beetween the two.
Aluminum: 2.70 g·cm^3
Copper: 8.96 g·cm^3
Over 3 times the density.
Oh, i see, dang, the thing can really be used as weapon thrown at the enemy, LOL. :D
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by brinox
:shakes:
Why the hell no one uses retention mechanism like on Akasa Evo Blue (AK-922)!? Especially with weight like this...
im pretty sure its the ultra-120
earlier pic of it
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8179/img0475on0.jpg
Too heavy and too pricey, gets too close with watercooling.
Well, you have to understand that 3 kilos of copper aren't cheap. Especially when we're talking about crafted copper, not just solid block of it...
OMG. the true pwnage tool
*camps out for that :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:*
Please tell me there will be a Socket LGA 1366 version :)
I think 99 is the cheapest they can sell it for. If this thing is limted to 3000, I wouldn't doubt that this product is being release for only publicity and get the undisputed crown for performance. I am guessing dealer cost for this to be 66 dollars. Thats only 200,000 dollars which is chump change when you remove expenses. Take into account the cost of 3kg of copper, manufacturing, heatpipe and etc. Its pretty easy to see why this cost 99 dollars.
There are atleast 3000, people in this world that probaly think hell with performance, its a true thats copper and it's beautiful. Especially when it hard to get a cooler which is 500g of copper for 30 dollars, you begin seeing that their is actually value here. Sure it might be knocking on cheap waters door. But people don't want the annoyances associated with water such as installation and want to stay on air. This will probaly beat a 100 water kit anyways.
I'm willing to buy..... but I aint believing it till its officially launched by TR - y? cause if it is 3kg, I'm willing to bet thats too much as per socket quide-lines (i'm just guessing tho :D - anyone know where to look this stuff up, ie intel/amd white papers etc? )
found this on the Zalman website, they have it at the bottom of the product descriptions:Quote:
Originally Posted by tiro_uspsss
or to say it differently, every cooler that is considered by the enthusiast community exceeds the weight spec's by a lot.Quote:
The maximum weight for a cooler is specified as 450g for Intel Socket 775/478 and AMD Socket 754/939/940.
:shocked::shocked::shocked: thats that low, i wonder if thats real! :D - cause like u said, that pretty much means every ethusiast hs is over that :eek: :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by naokaji
It is real, but its an Intel spec remember, something like this will always be heavily exaggerated just to cover all bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiro_uspsss
Why not get the heat pipes to touch directly ?
it seems to work much better, beside the bottom doesn't need to be that huge.
that would lower the price and weight by a few $.
it also looks like it's got more pipes then a normal one.
It has 6 double Heatpipes but looks to narrow to me .. Ultima , It doesn't look like TRUE to be honest yet still it's amazing ...
6KG's Thermalright IFX -14 anyone ? :hehe:
Add: After I saw the pics from redrumy3 I started to cry
Just needs a new adapter..Quote:
Originally Posted by AuDioFreaK39
Anyways, aluminium case, aluminium mobo tray (which already bends).. And this thing. Interesting recipe at least :p:
if thing does come out & if I do get one, i think i'll strictly mount it on a mobo that is horizontal ;)
so you mean to say that aluminum does not in fact radiate heat better than copper?Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
I will buy it just as an art piece and display it on a shelf. Imagine how pretty it will be with a coat of green patina. $99 is cheap for an all copper postmodern industrial sculpture.
The Ultima doesn't have bent 'wingtips' though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
Also, for anyone who doesn't get it yet: Copper is simply better than aluminum for heatsink applications. The problem is that marketing has brainwashed you - the only reason why aluminum is used is because it's cheaper and copper is really not worth the small performance increase.
Are you serious? Explain it to us how that's possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by brinox
you cant forget that aluminum is also much lighter, the other main reason why companies use aluminumQuote:
Originally Posted by cegras
I want to see it weighed. 3kg? pssh, no. Whats the difference? Copper fins? that's not 2/3 of the mass of the heatsink. Did they add extra copper just to get to this weight? I would not a trust a mobo to hold up 6.6 lbs + the weigh of a fan on the cpu. There would be more contact on the lower half of the cpu just due to the weight shift unless you had some industrial quality brace.
Its pretty and will probably do a very good job of cooling and looking pretty, but unless my mobo is horizontal, forget it.
so so awesome...im getting one
the main reason they use aluminum is cause steel is cheaper and they cant profit as much from it. Whatever gets them more $$$ for no intelligent reason is their motto...Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonXX
ps. im not being a hypocrite for wanting the TRUE copper...yes it's expensive and "flashy" but I coulda gone for the Ninja copper if i was a drone. The reason I'm 99% getting one is because the performance you will get from it with a nice push/pull setup using high powered fans should be amazing. Remember, since copper's thermal conductivity is much MUCH higher than aluminum's, you need really good fans + air flow in your case to cool this baby down and get rid of all the heat it stores.
That's crazy talk. The EXACT same amount of heat that was produced when you were using an aluminum heatsink will still be produced, not more, not less. Assuming you're using the same CPU at the same voltage/clock. The only thing that's changing now is that your conductive surface conducts heat much much faster. In both cases(Al/Cu), the limiting factor for heat transfer is the convective heat transfer resistance, since heat transfer to the air is dependent on the convective heat transfer coefficient, which is directly related to the velocity of the air over the surface you are cooling. So, in either situation, high speed fans will help. You wont need higher speed fans just because it's all copper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
Buddy, copper has the 3rd highest thermal conductivity on Earth, behind diamond and silver. That means that whatever heat was transferred to the aluminum was dependent on the aluminum's ability to conduct heat energy. Now, since copper's conductivity is HIGHER, much MUCH higher (401 vs 237 W/(m·K)). That means that at any given time, it will be transferring and thus storing more heat energy than the aluminum version. Soooo that means that in order for the heatsink to not become overpowered by its own thermal conductivity, it needs to GET RID of the heat it conducts at a faster pace as well. Hence, the reason for more powerful fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto
Take a heat transfer course and what I was saying might make more sense to you. The rate of heat transfer to the air is dependent on two things, a thermal gradient and the convective heat transfer coefficient. The thermal gradient is dependent on the temperature of the surface, and bulk air temperature. Now, the rate of heat transfer directly increases with increasing temperature delta, Q = h A (T-Ta). The hotter surface aids in cooling already. With the same heat source, same convection type(forced/unforced), copper will cool the surface better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
That is purely theoretical. You forget that the heat transfer that occurs between the CPU and the copper heatsink is greater than that of the heatsink and the air. Although copper's heat capacity is a lot bigger than aluminum's, eventually, if the fans aren't getting rid of the heat at a greater rate than the heatsink is absorbing it, then the copper will start getting hotter and hotter and become useless.
Think of it like this:
1st hour: a lot of heat transferred to heatsink, not so much going out of the case
2nd hour: ambient case temps start increasing, copper heatsink starts struggling trying to stay cool
3rd hour: high ambient case temp has overpowered the heatsink, heatsink is now useless
That's why just looking at thermal conductivity doesn't tell the whole story. In a lab, yeah it does, but in real life it does not.
No, it wont become hotter and hotter, it will, like any heat exhanger, reach a steady state temperature given a consistent heat load. What you're proposing should happen to ANY heatsink. I'm not just looking at the thermal conductivity, I'm considering the convective conductivity which will increase. If a lab simulates "real life", how is it not accurate? Just stop misinforming people. A Copper heatsink does not need higher airflow than an aluminum one. If your logic even was applicable, then this would be true for aluminum heatsinks as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
An aluminum heatsink doesn't conduct as much, so its fans can remove the heat from the case without becoming overburdened. So this gradual temperature increase would take a lot longer. On a copper heatsink like the TRUE, which is designed extremely well, this gradual increase in temperature would take a lot less time, and while for the first hour or so, it would cool rather well, the ambient temp would start to "choke", and things would go down hill from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto
You CANNOT expect a copper heatsink to cool well if you aren't removing that excess heat from the case. That's all I'm saying.
And for ^^^ to happen, you need better cooling. If you already have good cooling, this is obviously not an issue. Just don't waste money on a $100 heatsink only to slap on some weak ass 800rpm "silent" fans on it.
Theres no "EXCESS HEAT"! it's the same heat source...Copper doesn't generate heat you know...it just conducts it faster, REMOVING heat faster under the same conditions. A copper heastink with an 800rpm fan will perform better than an aluminum heatsink with the same fan. It might be a marginal improvement, but it will conduct heat faster. If an aluminum heatsink doesn't conduct as much heat, its fins would be cooler than a copper version, and in that sense, you're going to have a hotter CPU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
Why will the ambient temp "Choke"? any decent fans are basically removing the entire case volume of air every minute, so the ambient air is going to be close to ambient room temp, and on top of that, you'll reach a steady state. Things aren't going to generate more heat because you change your material of conduction.
ultima 90? why? because the picture is at an angle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
it looks the same as the true on their site
http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_pa...rue-main-1.jpg
woah sweet... 3kg of copper is kinda cheap for $99 ?
Source? They aren't releasing it. :)
Nice. I will keep my eye on this, but I already have a Sunbeam Core Contact.
First off, yeah a copper heatsink will be removing more heat but at the cost of ambient temperature rising IF YOU DON'T HAVE GOOD AIR FLOW.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto
Second, if you don't have intelligent placement of good fans, your ambient temp will indeed choke. Getting good air flow in most case is very hard, and I think you're being pretty idealistic in thinking that a case worth of air is getting moved every minute. Grills kill air flow. Poor case design does the same, and most cases (even $300 ones) don't have close to the perfect air flow you seem to think exists. Again, consumer PC's are not a lab. We don't live in a vacuum, figuratively speaking. I think you're applying absolute scientific laws in a chaotic environment without thinking outside the box and realizing that there are a few important factors that kill this naive thinking.
Those scientific laws apply to the real world. Case air flow has NOTHING to do with the fact that a copper heat sink will perform better than an aluminum heat sink. Here's the skinny. An aluminum heatsink transfers heat slowly, so, compared to a copper version, it's bulk temperature is lower. To compensate, and increase heat transfer from the aluminum version, you can only increase the airflow, to increase the convective heat transfer. Because copper is warmer(due to greater heat capacity and conductivity), the temperature gradient for convective heat transfer is higher, so heat transfer to the air is greater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
Given the same airflow, the copper heatsink will outperform the aluminum. If you put the two versions in the same system, the copper will provide better cooling. This might be marginal though, considering the heatpipes on most coolers are nickel plated copper, so the only new copper here is the fins.
Either way you look at it, you're going to have to deal with the same amount of heat if your system isn't changing. You use an Aluminum heatsink, the rate of heat transfer is lower, so the rate that you heat the ambient case air is lower, but your CPU is hotter. Use a copper heatsink, rate of heat transfer to the air is higher, ambient might rise, but CPU temperature decreases.
Lets wait for coolers made out of diamond. 2 to 4 times the copper thermal conductivity. Don't ask about price... :P
just make a diamond microprocessor, thermal limits on that would mean we probably wouldn't need a heatsink.Quote:
Originally Posted by RejZoR
I'm going to buy 10 and then sell it back when Copper reaches $999/kg :D
it could happen they could use synthetic Diamonds but your right the price would be unbearable
Synthetic of course. Getting natural diamond of that size (or even 1/4 of it) is pretty much impossible.
Hell... I'll buy one just cause it's so shiny. I won't even use it. Just keep it in a acrylic box and have a small 5 watt bulb inside to make it GLOW
lol I still can't get over the fact that it's 3kg...imagine dropping it on your mobo...you'd prolly take half of it out in one blow.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrometheusCon
stock True nickel plated says it weights 790G grams
there is no way copper would make this weigh 3KG
only a Stainless steel one would weigh that much.
I'm betting this would be about 1,000-1500 grams Max.
I like that that carbon idea instead of silicon.
why isn't anyone using it to make dies because of it's meltting point of
The melting point of graphite is 3550ºC (6332ºF)
The melting point of Silicon is 1410ºC
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonkevy666
Hasn't there been a lot of news about Graphene? Silicon still works for the current designs.
p of nickel: 8.902 g/cm^3
p of copper: 8.940 g/cm^3
p = m/V
V = m/p
V = 790 g / 8.902 cm^3 = 88.744 cm^3
m = 88.744 cm^3 * 8.940 g/cm^3 = 793.37 g or 0.793 kg :shrug:
Sure. But what about other characteristics, like resistance?Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto
I don't know much if anything other than the name, and that it's obviously carbon based, which is what was being brought up.Quote:
Originally Posted by RejZoR
Also remember the difference between heat, thermal energy, and temperature. Heat is the transfer of thermal energy. The hotter something feels the more thermal energy it is transferring.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto
So first we have to ask ourselves what we're transferring the thermal energy to. It turns out that air has a terrible specific heat and has trouble absorbing the energy fast enough causing a build up of average thermal energy, or temperature. We constantly need to be pushing the air that has already reached or is nearing the average temperature of the system out of the way. The greater the temperature difference between the air and the heatsink the faster the transfer of thermal energy.
Comparing copper to aluminum is tricky. Copper may not be able to dissipate the thermal energy as fast as aluminum, but because it has a higher specific heat it can contain and absorb the energy at a higher rate. From what I understand aluminum cannot contain thermal energy worth crap. If you heat up one end of an aluminum rod the other end will have a significant temperature difference. This is why if you remove something on an aluminum sheet from an oven at 450 degrees you can immediately touch the sheet. Copper on the other hand is great at containing and transferring the energy but is not so great at getting rid of it. This is why heatsink manufacturers us copper to transfer the energy and aluminum to dissipate it.
So if aluminum heat pipes were used you'd end up with less energy transfer away from the origin and because the air can't absorb the concentrated energy efficiently you'll end up with a higher average thermal energy at the origin, or high temp CPU.
With the all copper TRUE the thermal energy will be able to disperse more evenly to the far corners of the heatsink, however in theory without aluminum's inability to contain the energy, despite this all copper monstrosity's ability to contain more energy it should result in a higher temperature.
Utterly ridiculous. Really, did no one study heat transfer? So what if it's heat capacity is greater, it means it can handle greater heat loads, it doesn't mean it "holds onto heat more tightly"...Like I said before, with higher surface temperature comes the added benefit of increased temperature gradient with the ambient air, which directly INCREASES the convective heat transfer rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xope_Poquar
Sure The copper sink will be warmer, because the rate of heat transfer to/through it is greater, and because it can store more energy, but that energy will never be greater than the thermal source because of the temperature gradient that will exist with the bulk air. Who taught you guys this stuff?
You have a source to back that up?Quote:
This is why heatsink manufacturers us copper to transfer the energy and aluminum to dissipate it.
here's a sweet and short discussion on the matter, because I can't seem to get the point across.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?p=43184
Marketing has gotten you to absorb the 'copper for transfer, al to dissipate.'
The correct statement should be aluminum used for more cost effective heat transfer.
And I think baron_davis has a point, ryboto. Over time the copper will equilibrate with a higher TEMPERATURE given constant input of heat. Heat != temperature.
Also, ha! That thread was mine : )
I'll consider it if it will work with x58. Looks like the kind of heatsink I want next.
Transfer IS dissipation. Dissipation IS transfer. Right?
it depends on the context.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
Stainless steel is less dense than pure copper.Quote:
Originally Posted by demonkevy666
Graphite is not suitable for semiconductor. graphene is, they are essentially the same, but the technology is not there yet.
if the entire true was made out of alu and that was swithed with copper, it would weigh approx 2622g. But since it is part copper part alu it cant be measurred that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by nfm
The nickelplating is very thin and won't mean much for the equation.
The copper itself might be warmer, but that's only because it's conducting heat faster. Look at the equationsQuote:
Originally Posted by cegras
1.) conduction through heatsink from heat source
Q1= K*A*(T1-T2)
where Q1 is the heat load, or rate of heat(watts from a CPU), K is the thermal conductivity, A is the interfacial surface area, T1 and T2 are the heat source temp and heat exchanger temp resepctively.
2.) Convective heat transfer from heat exchanger to air
Q2 = h*A*(T2-Ta)
where h is the convective heat transfer coefficient of the fluid(air in this case), and Ta is the bulk temperature of the fluid(air). Heat transfer to the air is dependent on the properties of the air(temp/velocity/h), and the temperature gradient between the exchanger and air.
If we had two heatsinks of the same design, the only difference being their material of construction, Al vs Cu, the number we change in equation 1 is K. T1 and T2 will be different for Al vs Cu. The base temp, T1 will be lower, T2 will be greater, meaning a lower CPU temp. In Eq. 2, the heat transfer is highly dependent on the temperature difference, if T2 is greater, the heat transfer to the air will increase.
The only variable changed between the two is K, the heat transfer is determined based on the conductivities, therefore Copper is the better choice.
In short, conductivity is dependent on the material of the heatsink, heat transfer(or dissipation) to the air is dependent on the properties of the bulk air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto
I do fully apologize. I'm looking at a text that contains the specific heat and heat transfer coefficients of several materials. It shows aluminum with a lower specific heat and higher heat transfer coefficient. It turns out it's a misprint. The decimal is in the wrong place on the aluminum's coefficient.
Well what I said would be true given aluminum could dissipate heat 10 times what it actually does. :p:
If you could modify it to do that, you'd be a millionaire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xope_Poquar
Yep, I was just summing up what I felt was baron's point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto
The copper is warmer because it's doing it's job better. Al is cooler, not because it is dissipating heat a lot faster, but because there wasn't much there to begin with : D
That thing would have to be solid copper to weigh 6.6lbs (3kg). It might weigh 1lb.
Don't you guys get it? The prettier the material, the better it cools!
Diamonds are a girl's best friend > silver friendship ring > copper ankle bracelet
Ok, good, I have a hard time just summing it up like you did in a concise way without several revisions, good thing there's no deadline here...Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
I think the source meant 3lbs, not 3kg. The Ninja Copper is around 1kg, so let's say the copper TRUE is 3lbs, 3/2.25= 1.33kg. Sounds about right...Quote:
Originally Posted by dengyong
My head was about to explode when people were saying that Aluminum would be better at getting rid of heat than Copper.
I was just reading thru this thread and I've come to a few conclusions:
1) Lots of people like to argue any point at all just for the sake of arguing!
2)A great many of you people are a hell of a lot smarter than I am.
3) I always thought copper was used for the base and alum used for the fins as copper transferred heat faster but aluminum dispersed the heat faster.
That's what I think not know and reading here I may well be wrong.
4) Pretty looking heatsink.
5) We'll find out how effective it is when someone here tests it and not before.
:up:
It'll probably be effective, just how effective over the original version is questionable, since think aluminum fins are probably pretty effective as is..
Man, that $99 is looking attractive as a good start for a watercooling loop instead.
a 99 dollars watercooling loop (new, not used parts) are almost equal or it could be wrost than the thermalright ultra 120 extreme. besides, not everyone will want to go through the hassels of watercooling and worrying about their loop whether is leaking or not. On the other hand, air cooling is way faster and easier to mount or disassemble.Quote:
Originally Posted by halo112358
3 pounds, you mean? 3KG is almost 3 times as heavy as some of the largest heatsinks out there. Even this 10-heatpipe http://xtreview.com/images/scythe%20...1000)%2004.jpg weights only 1.1 KG, and is *by far* the biggest CPU heatsink ever made.Quote:
Originally Posted by sxs112