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Well, I thought I would track my build.. not that it is spectacular or anything.. just thought I'd keep everything in one place. I have screenies and specs of my first setup with this Phenom 9850.. and this will be a good way to compare the two.
So here are a few starter pics.
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/stuff1.JPG
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/waterblockon.jpg
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/parts.jpg
Nice. Congrats on the build. :D
I'm trying to sell off my whole intel tower to build an AMD/ATi based rig as well foray for the first time into watercooling with a v2010. :D
:up: excellent cant wait to see more. Also curious as whether you will get that 9850 higher in the mobo and also curious to see your 3dm06 score.
Thanks for the incouragement.. much appreciated..:yepp:
Here are 2 more shots.. I am going to have to finish it tomorrow. I have a 7:00am Meeting tomorrow...
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/install3.jpg
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/install2.jpg
Meeting shmeeting! You have tech toys to play with!
That is a great looking build. Love the case!
Looks SWEET Charged... :)
I'm curious to see how well it OC's. I have the Asus M3A78-T variant of the 790GX coming tommorow. WooHoo!! :up:
The GBT looked really nice, but I had so many problems with the DS5 I just didn't want to chance going with them again, hopefully they got it right this time....
What Phenoms are you going to test in it?
I have a 9600/9600BE & 9850BE I'll be testing with the Asus this weekend...
Happy Overclock Weekend Bud!! :yepp:
Well, I got overly excited when it showed up on the egg...so of course I had to have it right then...:D...This was before the others showed up.:p:
Nice to see you making it over to the other side...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattskees
Ah, a fellow SB750 ASUS boarder! I thought I was going to be all alone since it costs more than the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
what a day for a sicky ehh? 'ohh excuse me boss, not coming in today, im coming down with the SB750 virus, :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
excelenty charged,
i hate the wait in these situations, got some bits, standing at the letterbox like a child waiting for santa, postman doesnt come, heartbereak.... another 24 hrs at least :mad:
i will be following this with glee :up:
i cant wait to you get it up and running
The next pic I want to see is an OC ffs:p:
Nice build there:up:. Im still waiting for my motherboard but I live in The Netherlands and it's a DFI board, so probably 2 more weeks (I hope:shocked:)...
I cant :banana::banana::banana::banana:'n wait:(.
Oh well, 4 more days for my new GPU if things go well:D
Nice Setup....... Keep up the good work !:up:
:up:LOL.. I like that.. SB750 virus.. they might have belived me too...:yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by soundood
Well I am on lunch and am going to leave a lil early today..though i have to help my cousin load some apps on his new build.. but will have it up and running tonight.. if it requires me sleeping in the shed cause my wife kicked me out .....
no nookie for you tonight. Only lovin you gonna get is from your new toys :rofl::yepp::p:Quote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
Well, with as "happy" she is with this new build... i am sure it will be much longer for the luving..:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by vengance_01
congrats, sweet toys to play with :)
best of luck on the OC buddy
OK... I got home late tonight but, still managed to get a moment to get the coolant in and running.. I am checking for leaks right now so there is no power to the other components. Try not to pay to much attention to the mess LOL.. and my case wires.. well.,,, I will have those cleaned back up as well. I am going to be up late tongiht doing my first OC attempts...
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/install5.jpg
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/install4.jpg
:shrug: Well, My new board will not post..So I will Do some testing tomorow...Might be a RMA job...
OH Dude that sucks and I know the feeling have had it happen to me before:( less the work involved with water cooling thank god.Quote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
ouch, i've been interested to see what clocks you would get.
Hopefully rma goes well and its just a fluke and not gigabyte reoccurring errors
Never fear, I'll be the backup guy with my x8450 on stock cooler with the same board. Stay tuned for probably nothing amazing as I take my wife's new machine into overdrive.:sonic:
That sucks Charged... :down:
I've been playing with this new Asus 790GX for the last few hours, and I did have a few problems with the DVD drive (fortunately I had an extra ;))...
I finally have Vista32 installed an I'm doing the updates as I type...
Hopefully I'll have some 9600BE results from it by tommorow...
Go give your wife a sweet back rub bro (they love that!), just make sure you let her decide where it goes from there... :D
So far this ASUS M3A78-T seems to be doing pretty well. I hate to say it, but after hearing your early results from the GBT I'm kinda glad I went with Asus this time around...
So for the life of me I haven't figured out how to enable ACC in the BIOS. I found out that you have to hit ctrl-f1 to bring up the hidden options and then I can select it (auto, 2%, 4%, etc). However no matter what I choose it still shows as disabled in AOD 2.1.2. I have a few other options to try, but gee it would have been nice to have some info on it in the manual. The manual literally says nothing about ACC let alone the key combo to enable it. You'll have to let me know what you figure out Charged when you get yours up and running.
I was able however to install just fine using ACHI, which apparently some reviewers had trouble with. I slipstreamed SP1 into my Vista x64 disc and it recognized the SATA controller and installed without issue. Now I have the SATA/NCQ controller and all that jazz in device manager.
keeps us updated... hopefully I can get the replacement in soon. I might buy that 790FX /SB750 board off the egg today as well..Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
Well.. I can say this much. I put the K9A2 back in and everything fired up fine. The new cooler dropped my idle temps about 5-10*c and 20 on load with Prime running for an hour.. I say that is a good. I am going to try my x2 4200+ and some 800mhz ram and see it the boards responds..probably won't but who knows. I will then RMA.I will have my next board on it's way.
No one has really talked about the x3's would be nice to see how they do as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpueblo
You've probably already tried this, but I was wondering what the results were with the new board with air cooling.. Did it POST then?Quote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
it didn't post on air either... it did however post with my 4200+ and 800 ram..I am going to try Phenom and 800 ram and see what happens.. I shall return...
I think I would've used the X2 first.
I've got a sempron for that lol
well here is my first attempt past 3.1.. which I had recently had to take down to 2.8 on my K9A2 with the exact same parts...Oh. yes It lives MuaHahahaha.....I found 3 chokes had cold soldier joints..,.Check these if you get this board... any who.. here is the screenie. notice barely any voltage has this going.. I was NEVER ever able to get 3.2 even set, period, even just a moment ago when I had my Plat hooked back up with the H20 running...
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/3.2ghz.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
Good job :up: ... Now give it abit more vcore and push it more plz :cool:
wooo hooooo :up:
so it looks like the old ACC works :clap:
overdrive looks cool as well,
LOOL... ohhhh it works.. her look at this...OHH CPU-z voltage is way off....
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=400771
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/3.3ghz.jpg
[QUOTE=charged3800z24;3203043]well here is my first attempt past 3.1.. which I had recently had to take down to 2.8 on my K9A2 with the exact same parts...Oh. yes It lives MuaHahahaha.....I found 3 chokes had cold soldier joints..,.Check these if you get this board... any who.. here is the screenie. notice barely any voltage has this going.. I was NEVER ever able to get 3.2 even set, period, even just a moment ago when I had my Plat hooked back up with the H20 running...
what does that mean:shrug:
[QUOTE=msimax;3203144]The soldier had cooled before the joint set, causing a loose connection. I had to pull off old soldier and redue them.Quote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
now, my next question is.. has anyone found info on how to change the ACC setting manually?.. I wonder if it will help het better clocks.. since each core seems to have there onw quirks...
Maybe he meant these were not soldered properly ?Dunno.
Great results charged3800z24!Your Phenom has become a New Phenom :D.How stable is that 3.3Ghz clock?
Is this on a 780G/SB700 board?Or your new 790G/SB750 one?
Ahh i wish AMD launched a B3+SB750 back in damn October last year.But hey,it's never too late to bring good stuff out.Soon Deneb is coming,as well as AM3(DDR3) platform.Fun times ahead!
I was thinking this too as CPU-Z validation displays 780G/SB700 :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
It means Gigabyte quality. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by msimax
Yes they were not soldiered correctly...;) This is on the new 790GX /SB750Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
I am running prime and will see... I don't thibk it will be prime stable..this chip seems to be quirky lately...I am thinking on getting a 9950.. but I might as well wait till 45nm...
ohhh god i gota get one pronto, i would love to see that Multi slide right up to 20x (i know it wont) and wala, 4 gig phenomQuote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
i am very i pressed with this result so far, and i bet you are too :up:
even 3.2 gig prime stable, would do me
what would you like to see out of it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Heck... I wish they had launched the SB750 with the B2 chips. If the Phenom had been overclocking to 3.4Ghz at that time... not many people would have cared about the TLB especially if it could be turned off.
Because of that "history" even now with the SB750 and people starting to easily hit 3.3Ghz-3.5Ghz people will still be claiming that Phenom doesn't overclock. Even if someone gets 3.8Ghz that opinion will still persist for a long time.
The only important question is what is the AVERAGE overclock of the competition that the Phenom needs to compete with. I see many people claim they can benchmark at 3.6Ghz but then they back it down to 3.4 or 3.2 because of temperatures. The real problem with the competition is they can use extreme cooling and increase to extreme voltages and keep getting more. The IMC chips doesn't seem to work that way. But the fact remains that people see "extreme" results and accept them up as something to compare against regardless of what the average may be.
I'd like to see 3.2-3.3Ghz at almost stock voltages. And I'd like to see the extreme people hit almost 4.0Ghz validated on the 65nm parts. (And 3.8Ghz benchable.)Quote:
Originally Posted by soundood
Charged seems have covered that first part... now we'll have to see what others can do about the rest.
well 3.3 on the voltage I had was not stable.. it dropped core "0" just. But more V might do the trick.. I have a good hunch 3.2 is going to be where i set her. I also tried to do a OC with ACC off.. and hahaha on this board I got 2.8 bootable nothing else woot load...I now wonder if the MSI K9A2 Plat had the SB750.. I'd better it would clock better ...;)
ACC works,and unlike Shintel claimed in News Section a while back,it isn't a marketing spin.And it is different on the hardware level.
AMD said one should expect from 100 to 300Mhz over SB600,seems they underestimated it by 100-200Mhz :D.3.2 is well over 2.8Ghz.If you could get 3.3Ghz out of her,that would be even greater achievement(17% faster system with just a south bridge change :))
soldered ;)
I don't suppose you could take some pics of your bios options and post them? I still can't get ACC to work and I'm starting to wonder if gigabyte somehow turned it off for the x3's. :( And incidentally I was having issues running 8GB in all four slots, so after a ton of memtesting where I almost got through multiple passes stable after upping northbridge and DDR voltage, I finally decided to drop to 4GB (2x2) and start playing more with overclocking.
Well, so far my experience with the ASUS M3A78-T has been pretty much pants. ACC offers me no improvement over no ACC. I'm still not stable above 2800MHz no matter where I adjust ACC to. I do like how this board's bios doesn't have to be cleared before each boot though. :) That's an improvement over my K9A2, but of course I still don't have all the fancy add-in cards on this board yet.
What ACC has shown me so far is that it doesn't seem to do jack for helping OC. It just seems to prevent crashes due to "clock interrupt not received" bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: without actually decreasing the frequency of computational errors. At 2.9GHz I don't instacrash but it's only like 5 seconds Prime stable until I jack the voltage above 1.425V. Then, it's only stable for a few minutes. It doesn't just crash like on my old board, but rounding errors spoil the usefulness.
Anyway, my review so far would be as described below.
Pick one of the following:
- Well, I guess my CPU is just a bona fide lemon.
- ACC reduces total system failure but doesn't really help computationally stable overclocks.
- ASUS's current BIOS is still just immature.
- ASUS's M3A78-T has an absolute pants implementation of ACC.
Have you verified that ACC is working by checking in with the latest AOD?Maybe it's just the BIOS not setting it up to "on" at all.Asus has one of the laziest BIOS support out there.I owned 3 boards so far,1 from K7 days,2 from K8/X2 days,all weren't top notch when it comes to BIOS...Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
AOD does show ACC to be on and set to whatever I select in the BIOS.
Hmm must be a lemon of a CPU then :(.Hold on for the next bios release,maybe things change,who knows..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
Could it be that maybe the ACC function is not correctly working on your board yet. As you said the bios is still immature, so there will be a couple of bios updates soon i guess.
Charged:Glad to see you have it up and running! Nice results so far.. :D
Particle:After only a few hours with the Asus board I've gotten and extra 300Mhz (2.6max to 2.9max) on an old 96BE. I was testing it first because I didn't really want to tear down my main rig to remove the 9850. Stability seems to be MUCH better, IE: it either works or it doesn't, no strange crashes so far. :up:
The bios is very imature, for one the NB/HT Multi's don't seem to work.
I just set ACC to "auto" in bios if that helps you any. I have to OC through bios, the new AOD keeps giving some "1721 error" on install and I haven't figured it out yet. Vers 2.1.1 works, but it seems flakey.
One thing that amazes me is how cool the PWM section of the board stays compared to the K9A2, at least thats comforting... ;)
Remember that 2.1.2 is out, have you given it a shot?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
well sorry I have been away .. I had family stuff to do.. I won't be on till late tonight, I am going to Muncie Speed way to watch the drags... WooHoo...
Yeah, 2.1.2 is the version that keeps erroring on install..
BTW, I got this rickety old 96BE up to 3Ghz... Woohoo!
It takes 1.425v to get there, but NOTHING on the board or CPU feels warm.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...x,1988-13.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
"Mainly, that step involves enabling ACC, either through a motherboard BIOS or using the OverDrive utility, and choosing a “value” corresponding to ACC. The value in question ranges from -12% to +12% and starts at zero. What exactly does it represent? Good question — AMD is staying deliberately quiet on the exact definition. However, all indications point to the loosening and tightening of tolerances. With a Phenom X4 9950 or 9850, AMD recommends opening ACC up to +2% or so. A slower chip, like an older 9600, might be able to withstand +4% or +6%. You get the idea."
I noticed that about the PWM section too, Dave. On the K9A2 I have, at full load even the heatsink on the MSI would hit above 75C. There is no telling what the MOSFETs were running under it. On the ASUS, even when the PWM section is receiving 166W it wasn't too warm to keep a finger on.
I did some power testing with a Fluke clamp style ammeter.
This is at 2900MHz (200 x 14.5):
vCore, Idle Current, Idle Power, Load Current, Load Power
1.375V 7.0A 84W 11.8A 142W
1.400V 7.3A 87W 12.4A 149W
1.425V 7.7A 92W 13.1A 157W
1.450V 8.2A 98W 13.8A 166W
These numbers represent the power going to the PWM section. On the ASUS board, the AUX12 connector by the PWMs seems to be the sole source of power for the CPU while the ground plane seems shared. As such, these numbers represent the amount of power being used by the CPU in addition to the loss (as heat) in the PWM section. Since the PWMs stay so cool though, I'd say not a whole lot is lost there as heat.
For ACC, I tried -12, -2, 0, 2, 4, 6, 10, and 12. Nothing seemed to actually help anything for me.
My experience with the Gigabyte MA790GP-DS4H is about the same as charged3800z24 so far. My 9850BE would only do 2.8ghz reliably on a Jetway HA04 Extreme. This is what I'm getting (@1.36 vcore) on the Gigabyte....stable.:clap:
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=400966
And no, cpuz 1.46 doesn't ID the chipset correctly.....shows as 790G/SB700.
Can either of you tell me what your bios settings are set to for the ACC? And are you running in AHCI mode? I just noticed that unless I'm mistaken AOD 2.1.2 acts as if it can't see the southbridge. When I do the diagram it actually shows the southbridge as greyed out, and of course so is ACC as I mentioned earlier. Maybe I'll try the beta 2.1.1.
mine sits at 2.8 nicely too, although i have had it 3 gig stable recently, but dropped back downQuote:
Originally Posted by RiverRicer
i will be very happy with a clock of 3.2 gig
great results guys :clap:
ASUS has great hardware but crap BIOSes. I'm thinking about giving the Foxconn a spin next week. My old s939 Opty185 system is showing wear and tear from all these years of overclocking. 790GX+SB750 for $130 sounds like a good time to build, huh?
Yea not bad at all. I really wish I had the cash to give these new Quads and boards a spin. Happy with whats in my sig, but AMD is getting there.
thanks for the link.. helps me out a bit...Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliverda
I have ACC mode turned on in bios and set to auto .. I am using 2.1.2 AOD. But have have did all my clocking in the bios so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpueblo
Man this is some good results so far. I hope it will do something for me also, Im running 3.2ghz 24/7@ 1.4v and Ive run benchies at 3.36ghz, and the highest suicide boot I could get was 3.48ghz..........3.4ghz stable would be nice:clap:
btw this is on air...
:clap::clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan7171
Keep the results coming.
Three months ago any of us would have been happy with 3.2Ghz-3.3Ghz. Now we want 3.6Ghz. (I'll accept 3.2Ghz at 1.4V if it will prime95 for a few days. A 28% overclock is very acceptable for 1.4V.)
What temperatures?
GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
ASUS's current BIOS is still just immature.
- ASUS's M3A78-T has an absolute pants implementation of ACC.
my picks
I am sure Asus will improve it,just not sure how many months it might take.
M3a took at least a couple (of months) to get 'stable", solid
BIOS
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpueblo
I saw that on my dfi m2r and uninstalling AOD, then a reboot (I think)
Install again and SB is back on the diagram
You don't think it'd be anything wierd like the fact that I'm using AHCI instead of native IDE SATA mode do you? I get the impression that most don't use that mode since it's troublesome, though I don't know why this being my first phenom.Quote:
Originally Posted by SocketMan
I will take some pics if you still need them...Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpueblo
I am using Native IDE mode since it was what I ha on the K9A2 Plat...I did not reload the OS. But I am tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpueblo
I installed it and it worked... then the next day it started crashing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SocketMan
So I uninstalled... rebooted... manually made sure all AOD files were deleted... then rebooted and reinstalled. Now it works like it should.
nice job...Hey I noticed u'r sig looks just like my old build...;) I sold my 9600 to my cousin this weekend, or I would have gave it a try. Most I could get out of it was 2.8ghz on a Sapphire 780g /SB700...Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveburt714
http://3800z24.info/Phenom/9600_780g.JPG
Its 25c in the room cpu idling at 33c and load at 45c with no ac onQuote:
Originally Posted by keithlm
Nice results so far fellas, anyone going to show some gaming benchies?
Naw, I think I've got it based on your earlier posts. I think I'm just dealing with a fluke, I'll try reinstalling and other odd tricks to see what's up.Quote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
http://my.ocworkbench.com/2008/gigab...290%20copy.jpg , http://my.ocworkbench.com/2008/gigab...291%20copy.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by oldpueblo
Have you pressed the ctrl+F1 in the BIOS? :)
Nice going charged!
You said the Phenom first only did 2.8Ghz and was hardly stable. Were you actually able to clock it to say 2.7Ghz and let it be 100% stable (so no idle freezing either?).
My CPU couldnt boot really above 2.8Ghz. Sometimes I was lucky and managed up to 2.9Ghz, but when pressing enter to log on everything froze (no matter what Vcore, usual SB600/Phenom problem).
I actually got even at 2.6Ghz idle freezes, then gave up and let everything run at stock.
For the Asus M3A78-T board, i think I read somewhere the BIOS wasn't 100% yet, if I didnt read it, I most certainly know it anyhow:p:.
I'm going to pop the 9850 out of my box again later and give it another go I think. I'll see what it can do at 1.400V and with ACC set to Auto. I hadn't tried that.
Try uninstalling the AOD 2.1.2 and rebooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
Then make sure ALL directories have nothing in them for the AMD/AOD stuff.
DIRECTORIES:
MAIN: C:\Program Files\AMD\AOD
C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\AMD\OverDrive in vista
(Or C:\My Documents\..... in XP.)
After those are clean you can then reload AOD 2.1.2 and hopefully it will work better. (I had that version crash until I did the above. Now it works fine.)
Perhaps I should clarify. I haven't had any AOD related crashes or problems. It is just that ACC (despite being enabled and showing so) wasn't getting me anything.
Oops. Sorry... thought you had issues with that also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
Keep us posted on how it works... if you retry your 9850....
BTW: I think the problem with AOD on my original install before uninstalling and reinstalling was that the AOD service somehow did not get installed. (So anyone having problems... check and make sure you have that service.)
What BIOS are you on? 0304 pretty much fixed all the issues we found, still a few performance items left to improve but overall the board is much better behaved. ACC was not working correctly in 0204.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
Interesting, bingo. I noticed that there weren't any BIOS updates available on the website, so I'm assuming 0304 is a beta somewhere? I'll fire up the ASUS again and give a look to see what BIOS revision it has currently.
Whaddaya know? My board has 0204. Where can I get the update?
Have you tried the ASUS Update Utility?Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
I'd be very interested in this bios too Bingo... I've Googled but can't seem to find it anywhere. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo13
Could you get us a link?
Thanks.... Dave
My best with the 9600BE was 2.6ghz 100% stable with stock v-core. My 9600 hated voltage..2.7 was worse then 2.8 actually lol...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
I am going to do som Cinebench, 3mark06, vantage, an anything else I can, tomorrow night when I get home.
Maybe some game benchies if you have any aswell :rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker:Quote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
Cinebench 32 Bit realy sucks with the phenom. Bad Scaling etc.
Try 64 bit and try to get NB as fast as possible and you will get an additional extra boost in performance by near as 10 %
http://www.abload.de/img/test7az.jpg
I will load 64bit tonight if time permits.. But I don't see me achieving the same OC on the 64 bit... I already dicovered this on my other board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boschwanza
Edit: I need a spell checker lol.. I type to fast and never proof read..wow
I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but with regards to benchnmarks, I am now at the point where I want to know what compiler a commercial program was compiled with.
I will post some other benchies if any one has any the want to see..... I will run 3.3 benchies tonight if I have time. I will throw in the 64bit ones after I get it loaded.. I might try hitting 3.4ghz..but it might take 1.5v eek
Cinebench is highly Intel optimated thats not new, at least for 64 Bit operating System Cinebench is forced to use SSE2 on every processor. Thats one explanation the Phenom does much more better with 64 Bit in Cinebench except the better 64 bit implemetation on AMD CPUsQuote:
Originally Posted by Aquineas
For example (Cinebench)
32 to 64 Bit on a Intel system gives you an extra boost about 10 %
32 to 64 Bit on a AMD system gives you an extra boost about 20 %.
Plus Cinebench doesn't use vector SSE at all,but instead scalar SSE which has zero improvement going from K8 to K10(and why would they improve scalar SSE??).The main point in using SSE optimized code is to try to vectorize the apps so that they can use the full potential of SIMD.
Also i wonder what SSE path is used with non intel chips in Cinebench.Penryn gen. uses SSE4.1 optimized path,while Conroe is on SSE3/SSSE3 i believe.
look at Agner's post at aces' here for more on the complier CPUID rigging:
As you can see above,AMD is fighting an uphill battle here,it won't be easy at all.Especially when apps are complied with intel's compiler with above mentioned rigging in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agner
performance rigging?
didnt know, honestly. its a shame a company such as intel would do such a thing :down:
or is it the software companies?
maybe intel has influence on software companies. would not surprize me, tbh.