SP1 for Vista is TLB override KILLER!

Sad story first: I've installed SP1 on my home machine, and then after seeing unbelievable outcome tried on test system :(

System is: Phenom 9900+M3A32-MVP+4GB DDR2 800 (CL4 unganged)

TLB override in BIOS Enabled!

Prior to SP1 install:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/285...bledpz6.th.jpg

After SP1 install (no changes in the BIOS options):

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/572...bledya6.th.jpg

:shrug:

After SP1 install AOD didn't have yellow ring around "turbo" button, and I knew that something is wrong... I've pushed button to yellow status but no changes... TLB patch is ON and it CAN'T be disabled!!!

This is a nightmare for all of us B2 owners!

Now I’ll need to re-install Vista on home machine and wait for M$ to publish very first patch for SP1!!!:down:

Update!!!

I've tried this: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=180338

and it works! so AOD doesn't work, BIOS override doesn't work! But this fine work of our forum member works!!

Crazy isn't it.

I heard of this a while ago, that's why SP1 won't see the light of day on my pc.

AOD turbo button under Vista SP1 somehow strangely enough only applies TLB fix to one core, not 4 cores. You might get a slightly speed increase by changing the turbo button.

I guess MS built the patch into SP1 to make system more stable. Otherwise, people would blame them whenever system crashes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sam2008

AOD turbo button under Vista SP1 somehow strangely enough only applies TLB fix to one core, not 4 cores. You might get a slightly speed increase by changing the turbo button.

I guess MS built the patch into SP1 to make system more stable. Otherwise, people would blame them whenever system crashes.

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Hey dont you have a fix for XPSp3 too? By the way good work with Vista:up: Im not gonna go up from Sp2 untill i know you have a fix:yepp:

Ive read that Sp3 is faster but with TLB it would be slower for Phenom users like Vista Sp1 with out the Fix..

@gOtVoltage: the program should work for 2000/XP/Vista regardless which service pack it is. So you should upgrade to SP3. BTW, are u sure the XP SP3 comes with TLB fix enabled? I don't SP3, so cannot tell.

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Originally Posted by gOtVoltage

Hey dont you have a fix for XPSp3 too? By the way good work with Vista:up: Im not gonna go up from Sp2 untill i know you have a fix:yepp:

Ive read that Sp3 is faster but with TLB it would be slower for Phenom users like Vista Sp1 with out the Fix..

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@Sam ,I was real shure i read it somewhere...It was suppose to be enabled like Sp1 for Vista...if i find info ill pm ya..Busy with the TA770 and 270+fsb:D I could be wrong, about SP3 ....Id like to know for shure seeing SP3 is almost here.

Thanks microsoft :rolleyes:

Won't this affect B3 phenoms too, since they are the same as B2 except with the errata fixed? I'd think it would still change the registers to enable the TLB fix.

This is obviously a conspiracy between Microsoft and Intel to garner total market domination.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nedjo

Update!!!

I've tried this: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=180338

and it works! so AOD doesn't work, BIOS override doesn't work! But this fine work of our forum member works!!

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Thanks for the Info Nedjo! :up:

Now my question is, after applying Sam2008's fix, do you see any real benefit to running SP1? I know I could just go ahead and install it, but since you've volunteered to be the guinea pig... :D

Are there any real world improvements?

Thanks, Dave

Well i just installed Sp3 RC2 update into XP....Made sytem repond a little better with Phenom.....Will try some Crysis and some other stuff....


SP3 Has no TLB Patch Enabled so far it seems more responsive with all same settings .Wierd even my HD seems to access faster/better with SATA SB600:up:

.....praying the final version wont have TLBfix on Windows Retail or OEM Update...

I was gonna go Vista on this machine but decided Xp32bit instead...DX10/was the only thing i was going for in Vista and with a B2 Phenom TLB SP1Vista im glad i did..Amazinly with Videocard performance my 3870x2 Runs DX9 like its Dx10 any way ,even CPU@2400mhz:D

I will grab a B3 with x64bit Vista but will wait for price Drop and see how good it really is over my 9600 using x64bit.With No TLB...

I have no idea what was done here, but yesterday Ive conducted same experiments on 780G and 9600BE. And I had ZERO problems disabling the fix with AOD.


SP1 has nothing to do with TLB errata fix and it does not forces it


I have test results at work and will be able to publish them only on Tuesday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

Thanks for the Info Nedjo! :up:

Now my question is, after applying Sam2008's fix, do you see any real benefit to running SP1? I know I could just go ahead and install it, but since you've volunteered to be the guinea pig... :D

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we have saying in my country that translated goes like this: "New ship is tested with fools on board" :yepp:

Quote:

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Are there any real world improvements?

Thanks, Dave

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I haven't noticed absolutely any improvements so far... what's worst, some time ago don't kno exactly when Vista stop recognizing my USB flash sticks :confused: and I was hoping that SP1 will fix that! But it didn't happen :(

I still have some fu*kup with disk management console and all is pointing to vista reinstall :shakes:

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Originally Posted by Cooper

I have no idea what was done here, but yesterday Ive conducted same experiments on 780G and 9600BE. And I had ZERO problems disabling the fix with AOD.


SP1 has nothing to do with TLB errata fix and it does not forces it

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SP1 doesn't force fix, but it does force disabling of it... did you tried to enable fi from the BIOS?

the board ive used does not have fix control in bios.
I used AOD 2.0.17 and disabled the fix by setting the performance button to the red state. WinRAR and Sandra cache & mem B/W results prooved the fix is not applied.
I will test the BIOS setting override Tuesday as well on Asus M3A Deluxe board.

maybe I've mixed up semantics...

there's errata, and fix for errata

fix erodes performances greatly!

there's fix override

override can be applied via BIOS or via AOD "yellow ring" (red ring is for additional performance tweaks)

I personally had NO PROBLEM with overriding fix via BIOS or via AOD for my "B2" 9900ES prior installation of SP1 for Vista x64

After installation of SP1, BIOS or AOD override of fix DON'T work!

Only thing that works is sam's "fix disabler " app.

You are using ES cpu which is not fully certified.
Either this or Asus board acts strange.

If SP1 would override the fix settings then it would be noticable on all hardware - which is not the case.

I am using retail 9500. I found the SP1 problem and so does a couple others that uses Vista SP1. AOD in SP1 does not function properly. In my case, it only apply fix to one core. So change the turbo button, you will see some increase in speed, but Phenom is not at full speed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sam2008

I am using retail 9500. I found the SP1 problem and so does a couple others that uses Vista SP1. AOD in SP1 does not function properly. In my case, it only apply fix to one core. So change the turbo button, you will see some increase in speed, but Phenom is not at full speed.

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what mboard you use?
I guess this require some more research. I have Gigabyte, DFI, Asus, ECS boards with 770/780/790 chipsets. Will do some testing on those with 9600BE/AOD 2.0.17/TLB tool.
Results will be published Wednesday night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooper

Results will be published Wednesday night.

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maybe one more bit of info that you might find interesting: AOD 2.0.17 doesn't recognize my 9900ES (even before SP1 install)! 2.0.14 is working w/o any problems!

ASUS M3A32-MVP DeLuxe BIOS 0801

Now this topic is the answer for this: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...38#post2758338
horrible reduce of perfomance

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sam2008

AOD turbo button under Vista SP1 somehow strangely enough only applies TLB fix to one core, not 4 cores. You might get a slightly speed increase by changing the turbo button.

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We covered this a while ago; it doesn't disable the TLB Fix but on one core in all Win OS and the TLB Cache Boost button only changes one MSR out of two you need on each core to disable Patch, hence Yellow/Green Mode doesn't enble/disable TLB Patch but 50% on core0. :)

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Originally Posted by KTE

We covered this a while ago; it doesn't disable the TLB Fix but on one core in all Win OS and the TLB Cache Boost button only changes one MSR out of two you need on each core to disable Patch, hence Yellow/Green Mode doesn't enble/disable TLB Patch but 50% on core0. :)

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And the red mode?

^Disables power saving core routines and enables performance enhancing algorithms within each core (increased power/temps). Doesn't affect the TLB Patch status.

Thanks for explanation :)

It still doesn't change the fact that it (SP1) changes the patch workaround in both bios and AOD. AFAIK the only way to get your performance back is to use Sam's patch.

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Originally Posted by Aussie FX

It still doesn't change the fact that it (SP1) changes the patch workaround in both bios and AOD. AFAIK the only way to get your performance back is to use Sam's patch.

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Sandra and winrar shows the same results. No performance hit. What else you need to change?:confused:

No problem Cooper. :)

Yep, anything memory intensive will show the Patch enabled/disabled very clearly. I used WinRAR from the beginning to cross-check because it was highly memory intensive across all cores and shows such cache/memory fluctuations on CPUs clearly. That's how we tested and found out that only the first core Patch was being disabled by many early BIOSes too, and exactly why better BIOSes and tools were later created mitigating these problems.

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Originally Posted by Cooper

Sandra and winrar shows the same results. No performance hit. What else you need to change?:confused:

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Cooper I haven't tried the SP1 on my system, I'm happy with it as it stands so I don't want/need to change it.
However I heard a whisper on the fact that SP1 is enabling the TLB patch so I googled it and there are threads everywhere telling people to beware of it.
Maybe your motherboard is not suffering from this but a lot certainly are.
I will be interested to hear the result of your testing. :)

When I searched for the problem everyone was using RC versions of SP1 so the final version might not have this workaround on it, but I don't know for sure either way.

AFAIK, it does enable the TLB fix.

and for staying away, i wouldn't suggest that, it's a very good upgrade overall, I personally suggest going SP1, and then using sam's tool.
it sucks a bit yea, but if you shyed away from an extra step, you wouldn't be on this forum...

Guys,
On your systems you have the Patch being enabled (as was mine with SP1) but Cooper said on his it's not doing so since the performance metric he's using is the same and performance is also the same. Surely something is amiss or different here. :yepp:

Vista should give plus 1200KB/s WinRAR. With the patch enabled, that's not possible, so that's all you really need to tell if the patch is enabled or disabled... or just check the relevant MSRs.

I could be wrong here KTE, but earlier Cooper said his Bios didn't offer the option to disable the TLB fix. If his Bios version has the fix built in he would never notice a slow down from intalling SP1.

It is DEFINETLY there! And like many others, the only way I've found to get the performance back was by intalling Sam's fix...

Try Sam2008's fix Cooper, I'd be willing to bet you'd get a pleasent surprise.:up:

The best way to check whether TLB is enabled, is the one as mentioned by KTE: benchmark WinRAR. If you get anything less than 1200kB/sec with your phenom, it is pretty sure the TLB is enabled. Try that out Cooper.

I put SP1 on my 9600 rig and lost 300pnts on the CPU portion of 3dmark06. Meh.

Well this thread has me a Tad concerned:confused: Not only have I just ordered a Phenom but I have just ordered Vista as well :rolleyes: and I need to start using Vista due to work so does this SP1 Release only affect certain Motherboards? And whats this Sam2000 Fix I am hearing about please .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brother Esau

Well this thread has me a Tad concerned:confused: Not only have I just ordered a Phenom but I have just ordered Vista as well :rolleyes: and I need to start using Vista due to work so does this SP1 Release only affect certain Motherboards?

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It affects Phenom CPU.

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And whats this Sam2000 Fix I am hearing about please .

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http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=180338

testing now :)

i won't be using sams tool - rapidshare is filtered in the office :/
btw can anyone tell me how on earth do i disable the tlb errata fix on dfi 790FX board? It took me half an hour to figure out the setting on Asus M3A32 board...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooper

testing now :)

i won't be using sams tool - rapidshare is filtered in the office :/
btw can anyone tell me how on earth do i disable the tlb errata fix on dfi 790FX board? It took me half an hour to figure out the setting on Asus M3A32 board...

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asus has option under CPU menu, and DFI under memory tweaks and timings... scorll down

Thanks, found it :)

Well as the OP stated SP1 does overrides tlb settings in the bios and aod on asus M3A32 MVP and DFI 790FX boards.

good job MS...

Please try this:

1) uninstall AOD you might have (also delete the AOD folder from ProgramFiles, back up any profiles you might have)

2) install 2.0.17 (LINK)

3) replace engine.dll with the attached one

This should:

A) re-enable TLB properly on B2 CPUs
B) fix the "no AMD CPU detected" bug which can be seen on some systems running Vista

Here is the one of the early console versions of the TLB tool. The GUI version are too bigger (>200kB size limited by the forum) to be uploaded here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooper

testing now :)

i won't be using sams tool - rapidshare is filtered in the office :/
btw can anyone tell me how on earth do i disable the tlb errata fix on dfi 790FX board? It took me half an hour to figure out the setting on Asus M3A32 board...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by macci

Please try this:

1) uninstall AOD you might have (also delete the AOD folder from ProgramFiles, back up any profiles you might have)

2) install 2.0.17 (LINK)

3) replace engine.dll with the attached one

This should:

A) re-enable TLB properly on B2 CPUs
B) fix the "no AMD CPU detected" bug which can be seen on some systems running Vista

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Macci do you know when can we expect new BIOS from mobo makers that'll implement proper override of fix applying?

Honestly sam's solution is for now only viable option 'cos it's suitable for applying override at the Vista startup, a non option for AOD. I for example just don't want to startup 16MB 32bit app each time Vista loads…

I believe new AOD will fix the issue.
Thanks macci for advice. Will try this tomorrow.

Actually, the AOD version 2.017 posted above actual solve the TLB problem even without replacing the engine.dll file. I have tested on a vista x64 sp1, it indeed applies fix to 4 cores unlike previous version.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooper

I believe new AOD will fix the issue.
Thanks macci for advice. Will try this tomorrow.

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yup, engine.dll fixes the "no AMD CPU found" issue that can occur w/ 2.0.17 on some Vista systems running Phenom

Thanks Macci!

That fixed all the problems with AOD.17 including the No AMD CPU.
And as was said earlier the Turbo button now disables the TLB fix on all 4 cores.. :up:

Okay guys I am thoroughly confused.

Just freshly formatted

Ta770 A2+ Biostar board and Vista 32 bit

Onboard Lan Boot Rom is enabled in bios, I am running rebel havens 228 tlb bios. Does this fix disable the patch or do I need to d/ Sam's tlb patch and run it, if so do I leave onboard lan rom enabled or set to disable and just use the tlb exe disable patch?

I had a beotch of a time with XP SP2 somehow my system was halfing my 9500 multi even with patch enabled something was forcing cnq to run even though it was disabled and with a bunch of help from other forum members I was unable to solve and am hoping this format fixes my B2 issue:shakes:

Last does AOD work on 770 chipset?

macci does this engine dll apply to fixing the TLB Overide issue with SP1 in general or is this only applicable for Overclocking Phenom through AOD???
In other words can you manually overclock Phenom through Bios and this will work as well even if you do not use AOD for overclocking of you're system but its installed anyways???

Hey Brother E, I know you didn't ask me but I was online so thought I'd answer ya... :D

I'm 99.9% certain that the engine.dll only applies to AOD overclocking, and fixes the "No AMD CPU Found" problem when using the new version (2.0.17).
The Turbo Button on the new AOD does work fully though, ie: disables the patch on all 4 cores...

It takes a few minutes to settup, but AFAIC Sam's patch is still the best way to make sure the fix is disabled at boot...

Hope this helps man... ;)

Guys;

If you start AOD, hit the Turbo mode button, the TLB Fix with whichever method at boot will go off. :)

As for the slowness... you can just edit the files and only have one tab that you need load up, that speeds things up quite a lot (what I do). ;)

Bloody Microsoft.
I had a perfectly good PC until I installed that piece of crap.

It is now an unstable slow piece of junk thanks to a piece of software...:mad:

AMD are having enough trouble without software manufacturers crippling their cpu's. I wonder how much intel paid them to do it. j/k

But seriously I'm really angry about this as it was NEVER needed in the first place. I'm yet to see anyone who has had trouble with the TLB. All I get now is bloody trouble.

After installing SP1 I can no longer get any sort of stable overclock.
My cpu used to fold 24/7 at 100% usage on all cores at 2.52ghz. Now it will run for half an hour before crashing at 2.2ghz.

If you are thinking of installing SP1 then DON"T.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aussie FX

Bloody Microsoft.
I had a perfectly good PC until I installed that piece of crap.

It is now an unstable slow piece of junk thanks to a piece of software...:mad:

AMD are having enough trouble without software manufacturers crippling their cpu's. I wonder how much intel paid them to do it. j/k

But seriously I'm really angry about this as it was NEVER needed in the first place. I'm yet to see anyone who has had trouble with the TLB. All I get now is bloody trouble.

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I truly believe that should not be far from the truth with that statement:rolleyes: considering Microsoft and Intel's Business practices:down:

Yeah you're right. There is a great new about Microsoft shake their hands with Intel, and they spend their 20 million dollar to develop parallel computing, especially for windows. You will see window's more faster and stable in future when all the softwares are running in parallel architecture from Bill and Intel.:D . So how about AMD, god know :D

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Originally Posted by Brother Esau

I truly believe that should not be far from the truth with that statement:rolleyes: considering Microsoft and Intel's Business practices:down:

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This is what the Intel Fan Club refuses to Acknowledge :rolleyes: Intel pays software developers to favor them with the way their software is coded to favor the Intel Architecture over AMD, conspiracy theory? I don't think so!:down:

Like my friend Eddie Lathom said to me years ago......Cam ..Life's a Sh*t Sandwich......The More Bread you have.....The Less Sh*t You Eat!:clap: :clap: :clap:

Here is the proof for you.
http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/c...iler-t428.html

Who? He appeard at various times during the thread (with useless intel propaganda) is the benchmark optimising engineer for intel. :shocked: (Yep, they have one)

It really is sad. This is why I refuse to buy intel. No matter how much faster they appear to be. Oh well this and things like the OLPC, amongst hundreds of other bad business practices they approve of.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=176165

I made a thread about this a while ago. It definitely affects me and really does suck.

I'm not going to agree or disagree on the general topic and it's better dropped but that who? character is a typical Intel zealot since he works, hypes deceptively and touts Intel everywhere he goes, and derides, lies about AMD everywhere he goes. I see his involvement as pure marketing and PR BS. Its sad, but macci came no where near that lowness, just helping us and was still attacked by insecure infants whilst being one of the most respected pioneers of this community since the very beginning while the same never happened for this obvious character clearly only marketing his company with snakeoil dippings. Search for how many Intel zealots made "macci the shill" threads online when he decided to post on here and how many made "who? the shill" threads when he started the public campaign. :down:

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Originally Posted by Hosser

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=176165

I made a thread about this a while ago. It definitely affects me and really does suck.

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Hosser, I have tried both Sam2008's fix and Macci's fix via AOD and I have found that Macci's fix is the better one. You need the new version of AOD for it to work.
Sam2008's fix was giving me bsod's - I'm not sure why.

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Originally Posted by Aussie FX

Hosser, I have tried both Sam2008's fix and Macci's fix via AOD and I have found that Macci's fix is the better one. You need the new version of AOD for it to work.
Sam2008's fix was giving me bsod's - I'm not sure why.

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Sam2008's fix is working for me in Vista Business x64 :) !
I've tested it yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Lightman

Sam2008's fix is working for me in Vista Business x64 :) !
I've tested it yesterday.

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Don't get me wrong I don't think there is anything wrong with his fix, I'm the only one I have seen that has got a Bsod, it's something that's not playing properly with my system. I just decided to use AOD instead of searching for the problem.:shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aussie FX

Don't get me wrong I don't think there is anything wrong with his fix, I'm the only one I have seen that has got a Bsod, it's something that's not playing properly with my system. I just decided to use AOD instead of searching for the problem.:shrug:

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I'm not getting you wrong ;)
I know how stupid Vista can be at a times and can corrupt itself for no particular reason.
Soon I will be moving to B3 :). Pity It's not available till 7th of April, because I'm flying to Poland 8th of April for 2 week holidays :( . That means no playing till 22th for me, but at least prices will stabilize till then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lightman

I'm not getting you wrong ;)
I know how stupid Vista can be at a times and can corrupt itself for no particular reason.
Soon I will be moving to B3 :). Pity It's not available till 7th of April, because I'm flying to Poland 8th of April for 2 week holidays :( . That means no playing till 22th for me, but at least prices will stabilize till then.

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Thats ok mate :)
I was just trying to point out to others that I think Sams program is fine and I probably did something wrong :)
I'm hassling all the online stores here trying to get a 9850 ASAP. ;)

Have a great holiday.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aussie FX

Thats ok mate :)
I was just trying to point out to others that I think Sams program is fine and I probably did something wrong :)
I'm hassling all the online stores here trying to get a 9850 ASAP. ;)

Have a great holiday.:D

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It would be great if I could take my RIG with me :p: !
Seriously tho I think 2 weeks of detox will make me good:D !

THANKS!:up:

If you download the version higher than 1.03, you can try to change the MSR values in the INI file that comes with the package. The default MSR values in the ini works on most of the mobos. In your case, try the following:
1) Change the low value for 0xC0010015 to 0x01000010 (default is 0x01000011);
or
2) Change the low value for 0xC0011023 to 0x00200020 (default is 0x00A00020);
or
3) Both 1 and 2.

See whether that helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aussie FX

Don't get me wrong I don't think there is anything wrong with his fix, I'm the only one I have seen that has got a Bsod, it's something that's not playing properly with my system. I just decided to use AOD instead of searching for the problem.:shrug:

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